 Well hello everybody. I always have to pause now because the way Facebook goes live, we're live. I get to usually a huge echo but I think I got it prevented you'll just have to stare at us for a moment before we we get on and here we are today I am super excited about our topic and my guest. I'm Palmer Kipola and super excited to talk about auto immune disease because I know how many of you out there suffer from auto immunity. We're going to have Kipola tell her own story and her journey and why she and I both are so passionate about helping people to understand that there is healing from auto immunity. So often our conventional medical system doesn't give a lot of hope it's here's your diagnosis and move on and that's it and there's no hope. We're going to have a story around that to tell you today just to inspire you and give you hope and I'll actually ask Kipola to tell us a lot about her program and what she feels like are the core issues to address. Just like you could pull it in my clinic I've seen amazing. I call them miracles but we all know that it's possible for anybody to reverse these auto immune diseases when you catch them and look for underline root cause so today we're going to jump in. If you haven't seen my other episodes you can find all of them on YouTube on my channel, you can find them on Stitcher iTunes please subscribe or rate for me so that we can stay on with you. Today my guest Palmer Kipola is an author speaker and functional medicine certified health coach who helps people reverse and prevent auto immune conditions. She helped develop a framework called fights which we'll see us talk about today. It stands for food infections get help hormone balance toxins and stress to help others be auto immune conditions based on her two decade battle in overcoming multiple sclerosis. Her Amazon bestselling book beat auto immune the six keys to reverse your condition and reclaim your health with board by Mark Hyman. She shares secrets and stories science and strategies to help people heal and thrive. She also shares stories of coursework like I have with I have them. Welcome, welcome Kipola so glad to have you here. Oh, it's such an honor Dr Jill. I love being here I love the work that you're doing and yes, I am the woman with two last name so first name is Palmer. I just wanted to get that out of the way you can call me anything you like because I'll respond to most things so you know that's just it it's so funny because I got Dr Kipola this morning from a client like no no no it's not Dr Kipola it's just Palmer and I get Dr Palmer so straight up Palmer. It's such a pleasure to be I am the worst with names to for some reason I get these like little things that I call like worms in your head where they just like it's stuck and there's one person I always call them the wrong name or for some reason that is not my gift so thank you for your grace. It's just perfect. Yeah, so yeah. So Palmer let's start with your story I love stories and you've got a good one. Tell us about your diagnosis and then what happened with you with the MS. Yeah, well I will do so I have to take you back a little bit in time, because I was 19 years old. I had just finished my freshman year I was home from college and just working a summer job, pretty happy healthy well adjusted young woman. One morning out of the blue I woke up and the souls of my feet were all tingling like that feeling you get when you've slept on a limb too long and it's all tingling because the blood's flowing back but this time the blood didn't flow back. I thought oh this will just go away so I went off to work, but it didn't go away and instead that tingling crept up my leg like a vine. I got to my knees I knew I was in trouble. So I called my parents who call the family doctor said get her to the neurologist today at UCLA so that's what we did. And within five minutes of just having me do this really cursory exam. The doctor pronounced I'm 99% certain you have MS multiple sclerosis. And if I'm right, there's nothing you can do. We were absolutely terrified because we had never this is the 80s just to level set people okay no internet hadn't heard of MS before. Nobody knew. I mean, this was just such a mystery. I left her office with very little information very little hope and off we went home. And that night, my mom crawled in bed with me and she's holding me and by this time we're both crying and I'm crying harder, because by this point Dr Jill, I had gone numb from the neck down so my body had been tingling all the way up to my collar bones, but all the tingling areas just went fully numb, and it would stay that way for a full six weeks. Wow. So scary, especially at 19 right now we look back like maybe we could handle better now but 19 you think you're immortal kind of in those ages right you don't think about illness at all. So that to be so scary and then to be told there's no hope, right and not know what you're unbelievable. So where did you go from there. I lay on the couch, and there was nothing to do except waited out so I watched the 1984 summer Olympics on the couch, and dear friends would come by and bring me cookies or whatever friends bring books movies to watch with me. And this one family friend came, and she was into things that were metaphysical and she asked me a question which I didn't realize for many years was actually a gift and she said Palmer. Why do you think you got the MS. Why do I think I wait are you suggesting that I might have done something to get this. I had no idea. And of course she left and didn't mean anything harmful by it, but I didn't have anywhere to go so I chewed on that question like a dog with a bone, and it came to me in this flash of insight but I have to take you back a tiny bit more in time because I adopted as a baby by very loving mom and dad, but my dad had bet a fighter pilot, and his way was the right way and we did the headbutting quite a bit. And Dr Jill in that moment as I'm lying on the couch. I had this picture of my earliest memory, I think, which is me age three or four my dad is yelling at my mom calling her names. I shut herself in their bedroom, and she's crying, and I've got my little dupes up. Looking at my dad you call my mom names and I'll sock your lights out or you know whatever a three year old is going to yell who knows. I had become a child warrior. And in that moment I realized, oh my god, I'm primed for a fight I mean I'm literally on hyper vigilant developed insomnia at age 12, like scanning the environment for safety. And in that I had no background in immunity or anything like this but I viewed the immune system as Pacman you know the video game that they're going to go eat the bad guy, but I viewed in that moment that my own immune system didn't have a real fight so it was going to make one up and attack me. So I had to do all kinds of visualizations to help calm that down. So my initial hypothesis to answer our friends question why did you get the MS. I believed it was chronic stress. Yes, and trauma, which I do know still rings true for me today, even though I know there's much more to the story so that was my first big aha moment. Wow, I'm sitting here just like amazed at the similarities many of my, you know followers know my story and I won't spend a lot of time here but very briefly cancer at 25 Crohn's six months after I finished all of my treatment, you know was in remission for cancer and then got Crohn's Crohn's is also an autoimmune disease like MS where the body attacks instead of the nerve cells the myelin sheath attacks the guy. Now it's interesting because I realized I healed from those things that's a whole other story won't get into like you, and I was told it's incurable. So like you might physicians and Jill this is incurable you have it forever lifelong there's no cure, you're going to need drugs so so relate to your story but even more than that. 10 years later, I got mold related illness got very ill from mold, and I remember walking along the road one day and having this massive aha. And I would have had it at your age, and what it was that all my years the fighting analogy was what I lived and I grew up in a foreign family, pull it by the bootstraps you're strong, we don't show weakness. And I was an empath sensitive soul that tried to be like my siblings and like my family. And what what I realized I took on that fighter that no weakness that kind of same exact thing and I have no doubt that some people's autoimmune these mental stories and trauma and those things. But I walked along that road and I realized my mold related illness was my body trying to get rid of mold but in the process damaging tissues and fighting too hard right, and it was such an I have to change my story from the fighter and it's funny you have the Pac-Man mind were minions a little yellow guy. And I literally was like I've got to change and meditate and actually visualization around my immune system being different from fighting because it's going to kill me if I don't. So I love that you say that because we both kind of discovered in our own way like this metaphor that we were living was actually playing itself out in our immune systems. It's unbelievable, and yet so common to right. Yeah. Wow so from there and then I what I love is the thing we're going to talk about your acronym for this is back to your story. Yeah, so yes, how you like when did you find out there was something you could do how did you really reverse. All right, so let's condense things. So over the next two decades. All I had was the public library for a while, and my own intuition, because the only book was the swank diet that said that a low fat, high vegetarian diet or high grain low fat was a diet for MS. We'll get to that in a moment. But apart from that it took two decades of experimentation and I started with stress reduction so started doing yoga in the late 80s started meditating in the mid 90s. And I noticed that when I actually did those practices, the symptoms would subside. Wow. And yet, when I was stressed like exams back at school I was well enough to go back to school for the rest of my sophomore year. But again, my dad had told me, don't let anybody know that you have MS they'll think you're weak. See same story. Same story, like fighter pilot, you know you don't show weakness, don't cry, pull yourself up. But the stress of hiding that I just want to say to people this is, there is no shame. Like, this is an opportunity to love yourself. I didn't know that at the time so two decades of attempted stress reduction, noticing that when I had exams or stress or conflict and or more work, you know I was in corporate America for a couple of decades. I would notice the advent of symptoms, like really bad or new symptoms, and yet when I was calmer, things subsided. So stress reduction was a foundation of me getting better and frankly, healing from trauma, you know the forgiveness for giving my dad for giving myself was even more foundational and all the spiritual work this is so important most people start with diet and then get to the trauma. And that's what happened to go into it the other way. Right. It wasn't until 2010 that I discovered functional medicine. And I thought, you know, I've had this little pesky tummy gurgling after eating. I think, you know, maybe this has something to do with the MS. I don't know but it wouldn't hurt to see a nutritionist right so I found one happened to be a functional medicine nutritionist. I had an internal elimination diet. I removed the gluten, the dairy, all the things, all those inflammatory foods within one week of stopping this and really I've done further experimentation but I can isolate it down to mostly the gluten within one week of removing gluten. I stopped having all tummy trouble, which I had had forever I just thought it was normal I totally normalized it. And within one month of removing these foods. I stopped having MS symptoms ever again, full stop. Like never again, but I'm really, really super quick to add. As you know, this is not normally the path right it's often way more complicated than this, and my toxin bucket included you know a heavy load of stress and trauma. It was a sugar addiction which led to the candida overgrowth and the mercury fillings. So this is, this is the path is to keep that toxin bucket as free and clear as possible. And so that's the opportunity really but that was, that was the beginning of people said to me you know this is this is a big deal and I was like, well this isn't a big deal. I'm nobody special. This this seems like a big deal. So we can talk about, you know what happened next because I quit my job just, I had this cognitive dissonance. Dr. Jill, six neurologist had told me there was nothing I could do except take medication, or prepare for life in a wheelchair and this last neurologist at Stanford said if I didn't take this medication, I should prepare for a shortened life. Scared the bejesus right. So it took a lot of guts. I did try a little bit for a little while did not work for me. But then I decided once I fully healed. I needed to study this because it just didn't make any sense that six really smart doctors told me there's nothing you can do and yet I had a completely different experience and that's that was the beginning of figuring things out. It was amazing and I just, I can hear in your story you, you obviously have this deeper purpose right and you had to like at that point of transition like realize okay am I going to walk into this way that that my health and stuff has called me into this like because now clearly you're teaching and helping people in this way of what you've been through and you're probably living much more aligned with your purpose, but isn't it fun how the universe call like allows us to go like at the time I hated the cancer I hate the Crohn's I went bald I was so sick it was miserable. I never wish that anyone, but like you, I can say it was one of the best things that ever happened, the knowledge and information and even the passion we bring to what we do with our patients and clients, isn't it. I'm sure now you can look back and see the blessing but it's hard and the suffering I want to say that not to diminish like if you're out there listening, and you're suffering with auto immunity or MS it is miserable it is so hard. And that goes out to you with every bit, but it's also there's pieces in that that we can learn, and that do somehow transform us, if we allow it to, and it's hard. It is still hard, and yet it is such a gift, if you can just imagine just to hypothesize that just maybe this is happening for me, because as you say so eloquently, these symptoms are simply messages from your body, letting you know that things are out of balance. And so your approach, my approach we have to look under the hood we have to go to the root causes, because once we address things down there it's like that's when the leaves change right that's when the tree health changes. Absolutely roots. But you found functional medicine, you decided to become a coach and obviously now you're helping people. Tell us about this acronym because I love that it ties to kind of like that. It's so beautiful that you've taken something that could have been traumatic and made it into a beautiful foundation of your program but tell tell us more about what that means and the fight acronym. I will so my dad, who I have to give him massive credit as one of my greatest teachers and motivators. So even though, and this is also important right, you could view him as bad guy. But was he really he was also my most motivational teacher and he used to say to me honey you can beat this thing. You can beat the MS. Wow, you can beat this. So, he believed in me, I didn't know how the heck to do that but that was the path I was on. So once I dove into the research and just spent like six hours a day on PubMed, looking at all of these biomedical studies because I wanted to figure out what are all these mysterious root cause categories that we can possibly control. And I put all the words together on a page and because I'm a word person, I did like a jumble, right. And I'm trying to get a word that people would remember, and the word that emerged was fights. Wow, because that encapsulated those six big root causes which are food infections, gut health hormone balance toxins and stress which includes trauma and poor sleep and exercise I couldn't cram it all in. And I lament that it didn't spell peace. The rest of my life is trying to be a peaceful warrior instead of a fighting warrior but that seemed to be metaphorically kind of perfect and when you address those root causes that's when you can unravel the symptoms and then the diagnosis. And I really like the acronym because it brings it all together and it does. The thing you and I know too is you had MS which is such a serious debilitating autoimmune disease I don't know if there's one that's more scary. Especially because it happens a lot to young people the diagnosis, and there's a lot of difficult autoimmune diseases out there but the bigger picture is, regardless of autoimmune disease, we know what the root causes are the same. I always say I could have someone who comes in with a rare autoimmune disease that I've never heard of, and I still am confident that I can help that patient. Yes, the root are the same right. Yes, a little about the gut that's one of my favorites I'm sure one of the core, but gut wise you actually took out gluten and I'm sure over the years healed any dysbiosis. How does the immune system connect. Oh my goodness this is such a big and huge and important question. And it's really hard for people to fathom that what is going on if you have joint pain or brain fog or numbness or tingling anywhere in your body that it has anything to do with the gut. And so I will say that I was actually fortunate that I had mild gut symptoms, because that took me down the path right if I hadn't had gut symptoms, would I have gone to a nutritionist. And, and this is so important and I actually learned this from David pearl mother who wrote grain brain that the core hub grand central station for inflammation in the body is your gut. Right. This is where all disease as Hippocrates said, stems from the gut and health, conversely, so one of the elements is that we now have this autoimmune equation that is, I felt like it should have made front page news it didn't even make back page news right Dr Alessio Fasano. Now at Harvard Medical School, professor and head of gastroenterology for pediatrics led a research team, because scientists has always known that you need the genes and environmental factors to contribute to the development of autoimmunity but nobody could really put together how in the world those two worlds collided to unleash autoimmunity. And Dr Fasano and his team in the early 2000s I think, discovered the third element in the equation that's necessary for autoimmunity to develop. And that is a leaky gut intestinal hyper permeability right, which sounds crazy and made up and now, thankfully this is becoming acknowledged in the medical community is a real thing. Well, well, cancer drug manufacturers know that leaky gut is real, because they actually engineer their chemotherapy drugs to create a leaky gut so the medication can get in faster. So whether or not people admit this is real they've known for a very long time, in any event. So, what's so exciting about having an equation like this, is that if you flip the equation you could potentially as Dr Fasano wrote in his abstract, arrest and reverse the autoimmunity. And that's what I had done and didn't even know it. I mean that you've really happened up on the right keys to and I love that you started by how you flip like you really did the stress and lifestyle piece first and you're right a lot of patients will do that later, but what a great foundation because you were in a great space for the physical body to I suspect if you had maybe done that order who knows but the gluten free diet might have taken longer than a few weeks to make you feel so much better because you already have the foundation. You know you're so wise and I'm so glad you said that because that's, I'm not sure I would have had that same response and I think it's really important that people understand because I have some people respond. Well, you know, it was so easy for you. Right, as there is a lot that goes into it. And it's a great polymer because same thing with me for Crohn's within two weeks of changing my diet gluten free. I was completely symptom free fever free with Crohn's now just like you it took me a couple years to fix the whole dysbiosis of the guy, but I knew within literally over a little week that I was like okay, this is something big because my symptoms are gone. So it's so similar to you as far as, and you mentioned I just want to spot on the chemotherapy and cancer drugs. I had the cancer with three drug chemotherapy, and within six months had developed the Crohn's and I have no doubt that those drugs were part of the creation yet that led to the Crohn's to so right right, but it's so empowering to know that now that we have an equation and we have epigenetics, right, which tells us that the environment matters most now that we have epigenetics which puts puts us squarely in control of our health outcomes, and this autoimmune equation. Now the devil's in the details. Now it's time to get in and address each one of those categories. Yeah, so infections and toxins those are huge categories I always feel like functionless and boils down in the complex chronic to these two creating hormone imbalance immune and all that but talk briefly about infections and toxins these are huge buckets. Yeah, just overview of what patients might have to think about when they're dealing with those categories. So I am fortunate to collaborate with naturopaths who one of whom specializes in resolving infections, especially in the gut so it is, you know, I'm not playing doctor she is so good at what she does but here's the thing, more than 95% of our patients our clients are dealing with Candida overgrowth. This is a big deal, we're supposed to have some yeast but it gets it becomes really imbalanced and parasites are a way bigger thing than you may imagine. So that's another conundrum that we see literally all the time. The part that I think people don't often understand or appreciate is how medications can harm the gut and how stress can create a leaky gut as well. So when people ask me, you know what can I take to heal my gut. I usually say my top three suggestions are remove remove remove. Yes, it's what are you doing that's harming your gut that we need to stop because until the bombardment of our precious microbiome and the bombardment of our gut until that is stopped. We are going to have that autoimmune attack be perpetuated so that is those are some of my observations but you are the gut queen. I will add. I completely agree with what you said you said it brilliantly and because it really is and I love again these points are so right on. Because removal, you can do it all the glutamine in the world or some wonderful probiotic but if you have dysbiosis meaning abnormal microbiome bacteria or fungal. You can take care of that first before you can start to add in the good guys or even even really heal the lining. And I also like that you mentioned Candida and fungus because that's so prominent and it's hard to diagnose you have a lot of suspicion and many many patients do have this as an issue. Yeah, those are those are huge. We. Oh, where do you go from here. So another huge conundrum that I think is often overlooked our oral infections. We see a lot of people that have had wisdom teeth removed root canals. And in those pockets these cavitations develop. So I quite frequently I mean this is just part of the standard standard thing. I also see a holistic dentist for a cone beam x ray let's take a look and see what's going on. I happen to have four cavitations and all my wisdom teeth area. And, and so yeah you beat something like I beat the MS right I haven't had a single symptom in 12 years life happens. Yes, you know I'm a human being right and I don't know six seven years ago I had like eight colds in a row I just would catch one another another another went to a naturopath, who said, did you have your wisdom teeth removed what do my wisdom teeth have to do with having colds right went and had a cone beam x ray sure enough found the cavitations. And there are infections that love those anaerobic infections that don't get oxygen. They thrive in that environment. So what happens, your immune system is just on overdrive it's overburdened. I stopped having colds. Wow, within a month of that surgery. Like, seriously, I've had one cold in seven years. I have found that to be as well a very very and it's hidden in a way that unless we're asking the questions which I usually do. But it's often the kind of hidden thing that patients aren't thinking about and unless and most general dentists aren't going to offer a cone CT more more biological are but it is a specialized is basically an image that will look for these cavitations or their spots on the x ray or the CT show that there could be and they could be either underneath an old root canal if you have a weak immune system or in those places where you've had teeth pulled like, it's in it's way more common, because you don't often have symptoms like in those places where the root canal where the wisdom teeth were, there's no pain or nerve fibers know know that it's in that job. No, you wouldn't have any idea. I do have a client who came to me with diabetes stage three kidney disease. And cardiovascular disease was seen by a cardiologist. She had blood pressure that was just stratospheric on blood pressure meds. And this inflammatory weight gain where she would gain and lose like 50 pounds in a week like really unusual crazy blood sugar on managed up to 400s just really really in bad shape. We did all the things. We did the food changes the gut healing infections and so forth, and it was she was still having some symptoms so suggested that she go to a holistic Dennis she did. And so she, root canals dealt with her numbers all came down. Yeah, all came down, went back to her cardiologist who said, I don't know what you're doing, keep doing it. You don't need to come back. I mean, this is serious, like, we just sometimes it's hard to put it all together, which is why you need to do this detective work, but it can be so powerful and so dramatic. Yeah, yeah, and often I mean we do need to go through all of these things you mentioned, but there's, I found there's often one or two that are much bigger for someone so it doesn't mean that everybody has horrendous dyspiosis or everybody has there's different things. So you say hormones kind of at the end I would agree that's a layer that comes later because often when you fix the toxin and infection the whole themselves. Yes. So about that, and why is that important. Yeah, well, I mean, so much of your questions and everything else there everything's connected. So I just I just want to say that everything is is connected and as we address each of these layers. It's just come back into balance like the weevils that wobble may just come right back up. But we see kind of for hormonal imbalances that are low, we see low vitamin D, which is the easiest hormonal imbalance to correct. We see low DHA, which is the foundation hormone across the board pretty low. We see low melatonin, which is not just for sleep but really helps with immune modulation. And what is the last low one we see. Let me go to the high ones and I'll come back to oh and low thyroid thyroid. So those are the four big low hormonal imbalances and then on the high side we see high insulin, high estrogen and high cortisol. So it's just this is the typical constellation of hormone imbalances that we see with people, but almost to a person, we see these coming back into balance is there start to address other things. The insulin and the cortisol being among the most important. Oh, could not agree more and really our epidemic obesity diabetes, even women endometriosis or PC us are all of these things are kind of in that bucket. High insulin high estrogen high cortisol. Yeah. So, interesting just a little side note I learned myself as I've been high cortisol my most of my life until recently, but I would exercise like pretty intensely and it took me a lot of years, you would think that as a doctor has trained but what I was realizing for many years I was pushing that course all even higher with my intense exercise and I really switched my regimen to much more walking hiking, a little bit of weight, but I don't do the high intensity anymore at all. And it shifted everything for me and that was because I was even making that course all worse it was already high I was making a higher. So exercise is a lot it's not just one size fits all and not everybody should be doing high intensity if your cortisol is already high you may need to not, again, not that's bad you need to individualize it but there's a big difference in people. So, if you are listening and some of them either themselves have experienced auto immunity, maybe they have a new diagnosis or someone they love that's often how we get into this is someone we care about gets sick and we want to help them. What kinds of words of wisdom or hope would you want to leave them with if they're right in the middle of you know they've either just been diagnosed or they're still suffering from a disease that's autoimmune related. This is just such a passion of mine is to transmit the certainty to people that you can heal hope is real. So many people have healed which is why I didn't just write the book about my story. Somebody very wise said to me, tell other people story share other people's because this is ripples of health. I shared your story in my book which is so powerful and Terry walls and Mark Hyman and Susan Blum and all of these fantastic practitioners who had been conventional docs. Right. They didn't find functional medicine until they themselves needed it. They needed it. So, there is so much hope and so much evidence of so many people who have already beat these autoimmune conditions. I'm not some spontaneous remission. And this is what I hope to convey that we have the science that shows us how why it's possible to beat autoimmune. Right, we've got the epigenetics we've got an autoimmune equation we now have science that shows that our genetics are responsible for up to 10% of our health outcomes. And latest later cancer research shows that maybe only 5% is due to genetics. 95% is due to your. Yes, lifestyle. Yes. Right. So we've got the science. And now with people like you doing this work each and every day, and through books like mine and you know the practice that I have people are healing. Yes. And this is how we spread ripples of health to show that this is possible you can do it. Love it and thank you for sharing the work not only in your book but just in your eloquence and understanding because I think it also takes you have an understanding you have an experience. I'm a clientele and you obviously work with a naturopaths and every this team that's working with people with disease. But what I love is you have an ability to really explain it well, and that's a gift. And I'm so glad that you do I'm so glad that you share it so I'm so glad to have you here because it really is important, because you can understand it or even experience it but not be able to share it with other people. We have that calling and gift so thank you for using it so well and I will be sure and do my best to get the word out. Where can people get your book where can they find you and more about you and the program. So beat autoimmune the book is available on Amazon in five languages, and in different Amazons around the world so that's where to go for the book I think it may still be on sale. People can find me at my website which is Palmer Kipala calm, and I am coming out with a self paced course called beat autoimmune Academy. So that's the website beat autoimmune Academy calm. I just want to empower people that you can do this. You can get all the information that you need do the work and you know, really live into the purpose that you're talking about, because I think when you have a purpose and a vision for your future, and you use that as your motivation to pull you forward. There's nothing you can't do. So, no matter what never ever ever give up. I love it, love it, love it Palmer what great words thank you so much for your time today. I just love I wanted to share one little thing I recently read a new book called by Jeffrey writing or called curating he just he actually has a Harvard psychiatrist that goes through the evidence for spontaneous healing so it's very relevant he has some autoimmune diseases, but one of the commonalities no surprise was the thing you just left your listeners with and that's purpose and meaning he found there was diet lifestyles all these things these years and they were all varied, and not everybody changed our diet, but the one thing they almost 100% had in common was a sense of purpose and meaning. So, let's leave our listeners with that. Oh, so so much for joining me today. Such an honor. Love this I'm on your team take great care. Thank you. Thank you.