 Welcome to another episode of In the Zone. I am your host Chris Broussard. We've got another tremendous show for you. We interviewed Matt Barnes at his house in the Los Angeles area. Had a great time with him. In fact, the interview went so well, went a little long that we're going to run the highlights on this podcast. That'll give you 20, 25 minutes. And then on Saturday, we will release the full interview in its entirety. You don't want to miss either one, especially when Matt and I had a pop-a-shot contest. And there was a surprising winner. I'll just leave it at that. But look, what you need to do is remember, go to iTunes, go to Apple Podcasts, go to SoundCloud, and download In the Zone. Give us five stars and leave a comment. And in addition to the Matt Barnes interview, you will get Knock Down Jay. Yes, Jason McIntyre is back for that. And first, as always, we got to start with the top five. So this week, Carmelo Anthony, Surefire Hall of Fame, where he gets a lot of hate, but Carmelo had a great career, is having a great career. Anyway, Mellow Pass, Jerry West, the logo, to move into 20th place all the time on the NBA scoring list. Now, we all know Carmelo has not won a championship. He became one of five players in the top 20 scoring to never have won a title. So that got me to thinking, who are the best five players of all time to never have won a championship? And I'm gonna throw a little twist on it. You could say, well, just take those five players in the top 20 scoring. What I'm gonna say is I'm gonna go by position. So who is the greatest player at every position, all five positions to never have won an NBA championship? And I'm gonna start with Power Forward. I've got to go with the mailman Carl Malone. Now, this was tough because I have long thought that Charles Barkley was better than Carl Malone. But I really analyzed it, really studied it. And I have to give the mailman the edge just because he had much longer career. He played 19 years, Barkley played 16, but the mailman had a 17-year stretch where he averaged at least 20 points a game. Barkley's stretch of 20 points or more was only 11 seasons. Carl Malone, because of his longevity, is the second all-time leading score to Karim Abdul-Jabbar. More points than Kobe Bryant, more points than Will Chamberlain, more points than Michael Jordan. I'm putting my head off Sir Charles, who, of course, didn't win the championship either. So Power Forward, going with the mailman. Got to throw this in. The only player in the top 12 scores of all time to never win a ring. I had to say that, Carl. Sorry. At Small Forward, I'm gonna go with Elgin Baylor. Edging out Dominique the human highlight film, Wilkins. Elgin Baylor, look, he holds the record along with his teammate Jerry West losing more finals than anybody else in history. That was eight. They lost them together. They were both playing for the Lakers. The difference is, of course, Jerry West did win one finals championship. Elgin Baylor never did. But hey, he still was an awesome player. Top five or six Small Forward of all time. 27 points a game for his career. That's in the top five all time per game averages. And still gave you 13 and a half boards as a Small Forward. That is incredible. I know they grabbed more rebounds back then, but still 13 and a half is impressive. Elgin Baylor, the greatest Small Forward, never to win a ring. At Center, this one was simple. Patrick Ewing. There's not even a close second. I mean, Dwight Howard, Bob Lanier. The thing is, all the other top 10 centers of all time, they won championships. Patrick never did. His legacy would be different. I think he's an all time great Hall of Fame. Everybody knows how great Ewing was. But Michael Jordan obviously kept him from winning the championship. But when Jordan retired for those two years, Ewing had a window. And he went to the finals with the Knicks 1994 against the Houston Rockets, against Akim Elajoin. Now Elajoin really outplayed him in that series. Ewing averaged like 18 points. 12 rebounds, which was more than Elajoin, but he only shot 36% from the floor. Elajoin 26 points in that series, like nine rebounds or something. But of course, came down to a game seven. Akim was better. Most importantly, John Stark kind of struggled. Two for 18. If Ewing had won that game, that's my point. He would, his legacy would be so much different. Even though he's already an all time great, people would view him in a different light. But look, he's the best center ever to win a championship. At the shooting guard position, gotta go with my man, Alan Iverson. Over George Gervin, Reggie Miller, guys like that. AI, what can you say? The smallest guy ever to win a scoring title. And guess what? He won four of them. Then he led the league in steals three times. An MVP, an icon, a cultural icon, first to wear the braids. There was Sprewell, the trust me right. I am almost positive. It was Alan Iverson wearing the cornrows. You know, hip hop brought the emerging of hip hop and NBA together. Iconic Alan Iverson, best shooting guard, never to win a championship. And the point guard position. This was probably the hardest one. And I am going with some name that may surprise you. He's still playing in fact. Chris Paul. Over John Stockton. I like him better. I think he's better than Stockton. You know, over Steve Nash, Chris Paul, tremendous point guard. And look, the way the Rockets are playing right now with him and James Harden, he might get off this list. This year we'll see. Maybe next year, who knows. But Chris Paul, tremendous point guard, has had some struggles in the clutch in the playoffs, but has also had big moments in the playoffs. Phenomenal player, not only does it offensively with the passing, running the offense, gives you 19 points a game for his career, 18.7, something like that. Defensively one of the best point guard defenders that we've had in the league. He has led the league in steals. A record six times. That is not to be trifled with. So Chris Paul, the greatest point guard, never to win a championship. All right, here we are back. Welcome back, man. Back better than ever. How was Hawaii? Hawaii was excellent. You don't like any darker. You didn't get a tan. I'm dark. You don't look like your normal color. Okay, thank you. You didn't get a tan. Did you lay out? No, man. I'm an under the umbrella guy. Come on now. All right. Well, you had a good time. I did have an excellent time. You recouped. Your bruises healed and all that stuff. Oh, stop it. Stop it. I've been reading NBA. I'm ready to go. Okay. Okay. That's another segment of knockdown J with my man, Jason McIntyre is going to hit me with three points and I'm going to knock them down. All right. What you got? All right. Let's start off in Oklahoma city where you're okay. See thunder. Can I say that? You're okay. See them. They're struggling the big stat to look at here since Andre Roberson left. They are one in seven against teams that are currently in the playoffs. This team is floundering. Robertson. Robertson. I'm sorry, everybody. I got to say it's looking more and more like they're not going to be a top four seed. It's looking more and more like, Hey, this team's going out in the first round and it's looking more and more like Paul George. I've got to ask you. We saw Kevin Durant leave Russell Westbrook two years ago. They said, Oh, he needs a star. He gets a star in Paul George. They're not winning. I believe Russell Westbrook's legacy. I know he's what 28, 29. It's early to talk legacy years. You've had two top 15 NBA stars leave you in the last two years. I think his legacy is going to be completely damaged. What if Paul George indeed leaves him after this season? Let me tell you what Russell Westbrook's legacy is going to be regardless of what Paul George. Okay. Hall of Famer icon. Okay. Icon. They will be talking about Russell Westbrook 25, 30 years from now as guess what? The only player other than Oscar Robertson to average a triple double. It wasn't LeBron James. It wasn't Jason Kidd. It wasn't Magic Johnson. It was Russell Westbrook. He may not win a title, but guess what? May not win a title. Allen Iverson doesn't have a title. He got to the finals by himself. Charles Barkley doesn't have a title. Getting there don't mean nothing. He tried to ring Jason. Patrick Ewing doesn't have a title. A lot of great players. Steve Nash. How's his legacy? Did he even ever get to the finals? Was Steve Nash a lottery pick? Did Steve Nash forget? What do you mean forget lottery pick? Russell Westbrook. He was undersized. He was a great underdog story. Oh. He was a two-time MVP. So he never went to the finals. Is his legacy normal? You cannot mention Steve Nash and Russell Westbrook. Two-time MVP. Yeah. I would say Steve Nash had a better career than Russell Westbrook. Oh, stop it. Two-time MVP. How many Russell Westbrook got? One. He didn't get any more? He might. He might average a triple double again. He's not even in the discussion. And he's having another good season. Something that we never thought somebody would do. This guy might do it twice. Oh, stop it. And who knows? Yeah, we saw how hollow it was. Let me hit you with this. It got bounced in the first round. Here's what I'm tired of. I'm tired of the likes of you and others. All right? This notion that Russell Westbrook is not a winner. That Russell Westbrook and Kevin Durant were this disaster. First of all, they got to the finals. They got to the finals. As children. Lost to a great D-Wade, LeBron. With James Harding. That was a team, by the way, with three future MVPs. Kevin Durant. Yeah, but they were all kids. James Harding. But they still got to the finals. Then you look at the study it. The years they didn't get to the western car in final. I know. Durant was out. Or Westbrook was out. Or Sergio Baca was out. No, Sergio Baca. Well, that's a key part of your team. My point is when they, and then they're healthy. They got a 73-win Golden State team down. 3-1. Now, Westbrook wasn't great in 6-7. But neither was Durant. So don't put that loss all on Russell Westbrook. You know what? He's a man. Let me finish. My point is this. If Durant had gone back to OK State. Well, there's a reason he didn't go back. And that's why Paul George is not going to go back. Who was the first guy you heard say he was going to Golden State? I don't know. Me. And I said it because Kevin Durant loved the way the Warriors play. Yes. Not the way Russell Westbrook plays. Nobody else plays like Golden State. It wasn't just Russell Westbrook. It was, I loved the way that team plays. And guess what? Cleveland doesn't play that way. The Lakers don't play that way. Houston didn't, but nobody played that way. So you can play that way. So you can play that way. So you can play that way. Kevin Durant going to the Warriors. What are you going to say? This guy has not been a loser. Paul George says, peace. Let him go. Oh. Let him go. Paul George. Hold on. Let me show you about Paul George. Tell me. And I like Paul George. I'm waiting. But since you acted like he's on a Russell Westbrook level. Is he not a top 15 player in the league? He ain't Russell Westbrook. Is he a top 15 player? Is he equal to Russell Westbrook? He don't want to play with Westbrook. They're not winning. Is he equal to Russell Westbrook? No. Paul George, hold on. Time out. Paul George carried the Pacers to two. To sevens and eights. To Eastern. And first round exits. No, incorrect. Two Eastern Conference Finals against LeBron. That was Roy Hibbert's team. Get down. See, he's back into the corner. But Paul George carried two teams in the Eastern Conference Finals. Russell Westbrook, when Durant left, has not gotten out of the first round. This is the second year. Oh, let me, let me. I'm just saying. Paul George out. Don't want to play with him. Hold on. What did Kevin Durant do without Russell Westbrook? Well, I didn't want to. Not in going state because he got everybody in going state. When Westbrook was out in 2013, guess what? Second round, four-one loss to Memphis. Second round, at least. Four-one loss. Second round. All up. Look, Durant's better than Westbrook. I would hope he would say that. But my thing is this. Every, you acting like Russell Westbrook is this loser. This dude is going to be an icon. Okay. We're not arguing that. We are. Because you talking about his legacy is going to be shot. You don't think people, the superstars are not wanting to play with him? Doesn't damage the legacy? Did Kyrie ever want to play with LeBron, James? Yeah, but that's a little, we're talking about LeBron James. Come on. Does that mean LeBron is like a champion with this dude? And you still can't get out of town fast enough. They made Cleveland Kyrie's team when they drafted him. It was his team. It was his show. Then they bring in LeBron. It's not your show anymore. It's LeBron. So what? You was winning 19 games at your show. Yeah, exactly. 25 games. He's 20 years old. He's 20 years old. You got to give him a chance. All right, listen. You're dodging the question. What does it mean? I'm not dodging the question. I told you. You didn't let him. You're just trying, hall of famer. So you don't think that Kevin Durant and Paul George leave him? Not a big deal. You're just saying it doesn't matter. It's not in the first set. It's in his basketball bio. Did Kyrie did, oh heck no, it ain't. No, no way. The first sentence of his basketball bio is already written. Average triple double. Yes. What's number two? Second player average triple double. MVP. No, no, that was just the first one. Hall of Fame, Hall of Fame. Nope, nope. One in the greatest title. Why didn't you win a title? You know you only talk about titles. about titles. That's all that matters. No, it's not all that matters. That's the number one thing we're talking about. I give Allen Iverson love, Charles Barkley, Steve Nash, Patrick Ewing, and if you're not going to come down on Steve Nash, when you win the MVP. Time out. Yeah, hold on, a responsibility comes with MVP. Got you, okay. When a championship, did Steve Nash even get to the final? Allen Iverson. No, so if you don't care, you don't kill Russ. The 76ers to the finals, where his, who was his second best player? The Kimbae Matumbo. Oh my gosh. Is he in the hall of fame? Russell Westbrook can't get out of the first round. Last year. Hold on, how many years did Allen Iverson not get out of the first round? Russell Westbrook is shooting 28% from deep things here. He's never been a three point shooter. He's 29 years old. I'm telling you, his career is 30% for Russell Westbrook. He's not a three point shooter. That's the argument that he can't shoot threes? Guess what? Well, what's he gonna rely on when the athleticism goes like it has gone for Blake Griffith? If the athleticism goes in his 13th year and he can't do it anymore, that's a longer career than Magic Johnson, Larry Bird. Come on, I mean, what do you expect? Those guys never relied on athleticism. My point is just that he's already had a long enough career. He's in his 10th year. Paul George, hit me on Instagram. You better be happy to get the CNLA sign. You better be happy that Josh Goldman didn't hear the judge. We're not gonna have anybody score this? I smashed you. You got anybody? This is like a 4-0 sweep. He ain't the judge. Next up, next up. What is he doing here? Here we go. Next up, Anthony Davis. Now he's injured at the time of this podcast, which just stinks, although it's become a recurring theme with Anthony Davis. He is in, I believe, his sixth season. He's only 24, which is absurd. He's one of the best players in the league. I believe he's number two in the league in P.E.R. Player Efficiency Rating right now. Probably runner up to MVP second, third. However, they ain't going nowhere. This team's going out in the first round. This team doesn't have to mark his cousins until at least the all-star break next year. We've never seen a guy of his weight at his stage in his career come back strong. Elton Brand came back, and it wasn't very good. Bottom line is, this year seems shot for the Pelicans. Next year, kept out. Seems shot. I wonder, Chris, do the Pelicans talk to Anthony Davis and say, Anthony, we love you. But if you're open to a trade, we would be willing to move you and restart. Hey, what's the matter here? Am I on, like, am I getting punked? There's no punky. Am I getting, like, candy, camera? I'm taking it back to the 70s. Candy, camera? I don't know what that is. Like, what? Okay. Anthony Davis. The Pelicans should go to Anthony Davis and say, we love you, but we want to move. Oh, what? Well, listen, when you can't, when you try to trade Anthony Davis two years from now, when he says, I'm out, I want to be out. Let me give you a kind of go now. Let me, let me put your phone down. Don't speculate. No, you speculate. No, here's why. You ain't even speculating. You're just making up foolish thoughts. No, this is real. I mean, I'm in reality. You don't want to deal with reality. Let me ask you this. Anthony Davis, two years from now, hasn't gotten out of the first round. He's got one year left on his contract to play our option. He ain't staying in New Orleans. What are you getting for him at that point? Why don't you entertain? I'm not saying you have to entertain the idea. Hey, man, you're willing to give us a couple first round picks and a couple of potential stars. What am I trying to get with those first round? You're trying to get younger guys. Are you going to have them? I'm trying to get with those first round picks. If I got three first round picks, you know what I'm hoping one of them becomes? Anthony Davis. Yes. Yes. So why in the world would I trade him? He's 24, not 34. And let me read you this quote just from a few weeks ago. Okay. Anthony Davis. I'm here. Yeah. Until 2021. What year is it? What year is it right now? 20, what? 18? That's three years. I'm here in New Orleans until 2021. And then I'll make a decision from there. I don't plan on leaving in the next couple of years or anything like that. I've always said I wanted to be here. Yes. And that's still true. What's he going to say, Chris? What's he going to say? He doesn't have to say all that. He can say, Hey, you know, when it comes up, it'll come up. You don't have to be like that. You know what else he said. So Kevin Gornet recently was asked, man, you kind of wallowed in Minnesota. They did have a good playoff run. Got to the Western Conference Finals, I believe. Once. Yes. Kevin Gornet then gets traded to the Celtics where he enjoys an awesome three year run. Hey, KG, do you kind of wish you had gotten to the Celtics sooner? And he says, yeah. Imagine if I got there five years earlier. Remember, he was in Minnesota struggling that fight uphill. Anthony Davis was asked about that and was saying, and I believe the exact quote is yes, you think about that. You're telling me he doesn't think you think about that versus what I just read to you. Well, he's got to say that. I want to be here. But he doesn't have to say you think about it. I mean, don't give me, not look. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for New Orleans to even entertain trading him. If in your scenario in 2021, he wants to leave. That gives me at least two years. Kyrie Irving gave them heads up. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Let me. That gives me all George gave them at the very least. At the very least, I would play out next season and see how it goes. And you acting like I would go. No, no, no, you acting like there's no hope for this team. Really? Oh, I forgot. Your boy, let me holiday is on fire. They've won 10 straight games. Yes. In the West. It's been impressive. In the West. Don't knock it. Don't knock it. No, it's been impressive. In the West, they've won 10 straight games. They are. They are obviously they're not Golden State or Houston. But right now, they're right there with everybody else. They are. Yes, they're going to want to play off game. They're four seed right now. Right now, in five days, they could be out of the playoffs. That's how close it is. Here's my point. You drew holiday. You just mocked. No, he's having a nice year. Well, he's Raja Rondo is playing. Well, you know, that's got to shelf life. What else? Nicole Amir is Solomon Hill. Do and make a million dollars. It's playing well. Well, 15 points again. Well, it's playing well. Come on. My point is this. This is a young team. If they make the first off, they just make the playoffs. That's a success. I will be able to feel good about themselves. If they go out and win a few playoff games or God, let alone a series. They're really going to feel good about themselves. Are they a contender? No. But for you to sit here and act like they're not going anywhere. They feel like if they get in the playoffs and win a round, that's going somewhere. And Anthony Davis win a round. Why can't they come back to reality, Chris? Did you go crazy in New York? Win a round? Can they win a game in a position? That's it. That's it. One game. What if they get the Clippers? How? Stop. What if they get Denver? Will you get back to reality, Chris? What if they get a Minnesota team by Jimmy Butler? I mean, seriously, they can't beat those teams? The reality is, tell me why they can't beat those teams? The reality? Tell me why they can't beat those teams. They're going to be playing Houston or Golden State. That's what's probably going to happen. You have to finish seventh or eighth to play Houston or Golden State. Right now, they're at this moment. Two or three games. They're two games out of being out of the playoffs. So is everybody out? Exactly. They can move out and then they miss. They could. They could fall down. You're a glass half full kind of guy, right? No, I'm just saying they got as good a shot as anybody to finish between three and eight. And you're right. If they go seven or eight, they're going to get bounced early, obviously. And I love Anthony Davis. Let me say this. When they met Golden State a few years ago, they got swept. But it was a competitive sweep. I thought they would get a game. And so all I'm saying is if I'm New Orleans, it is way too early. This whole trade for Anthony Davis stuff has got to stop because he's not available. He's not available. He's locked up until at least 2020, if not 2021. I'm not even entertaining trade calls until a year or two from now. I'm going to quote the philosopher Ted DiBiase, the million-dollar man, legendary wrestler. Everybody has a price. Okay? And when you call up, your Danny ain't you call him, hey, what do you want for Anthony? I would just say you have to ask that. It's Danny and just job to do that. You can do it. It's the job of the anchors of Magic Johnson. Why does that front office have to listen? I'm Magic Johnson. Man, Anthony Davis off the hook. Yeah, okay. So who you giving me? A couple ones in the future. We'll give you Lonzo. We'll give you Ingram. I got Anthony Davis. That's your job. Every one of these first round picks are so over hyped. Oh, really? Yes, because most of them don't even paint it. How's Markel Falls doing? How's Malik Mock doing? How's Josh Jackson and Deere Fox and all of them doing? How bad is Malik Mock been in Charlotte? I feel bad for them. Look, if I'm New Orleans, I got my man. And I'm not even thinking about moving. Think of the first round picks. How's Carl Kuzman doing? How's he doing in L.A.? I don't have to trade for a 27th pick. I got a pick. I got a low pick. You're missing out on the picks all the time. Look, I know you a Boston fan. And you want nothing more than Anthony Davis in Boston. But if you, who you got? You better not go with that. Chris, he's not mic'd up and there's no camera on him. But Chris, again, I got to look at this. I was about to have a new producer up in this one. On some level, do you feel a little bad for Anthony Davis? No, why? All right, let's move on. I don't know why. I want to see the best players in the playoffs. He's going to be awesome players on their team doing damage. How about building it? There are still some players that want to build something. Okay, everybody's not going to just run to another team. Yeah, and how's that? How'd that work out? Great. All of Fame Career won the best power forward ever. Anthony Davis have all of Fame Career never won a title. That would suck. Okay, moving on. Third topic. Maybe we'll get you a win here, Chris. I know you're struggling out of the gate. Oh, this is, I love this question. So, Daniel Lillard is on fire. Yes. I mean, he is torching the league. He torched the Lakers a couple of nights ago. And he's in the MVP discussion. He's probably going to finish top six, seven maybe? Maybe top five? Well, it's only five. It's only a five. Oh, it's just five. Okay, I thought 10 people got votes. They do top five. Okay, so he'll, I mean, it might be some other guys getting votes. But Kyrie Irving in Boston has been tremendous. He has led the Celtics to the number two seed with a lot of young pups on that team. I'm going to, I'm not going to make a statement. I'm going to leave this open-ended. If you're starting a team today, who are you starting with? Damien Lillard or Kyrie Irving? That's a very tough one. Let me add the ages. Damien Lillard turns 28 in July. Kyrie Irving turns 26 this month. Well, maybe at the age, that could be the deciding factor. Certainly. I mean, honestly, like these guys are both very closely matched. Look, they're both great scores, great scores. Lillard, probably slightly more of a score, slightly better score, even though Kyrie shoots a higher percentage. And from three. And higher from three. I was shocked at that. 40 to 37, Kyrie. Yeah, Lillard might be a slightly better score. And honestly, neither one of them is a huge assist guy, but Lillard is a slightly better assist guy. Yeah, yeah. Lillard's about six and a half this year assist, about over six for his career. Kyrie's at five for his career. Five this year. But that's tough because LeBron wasn't kind of the offense. But even before, I mean, he's without LeBron right now. He's five assists again. Yeah, no, certainly. For most of the year, Al Horford was their leading assist guy. I mean, he's playing with guys who are 20 years old, the Brad Stevens offense. Before LeBron and Clinton Granted, young players then, but still, Kyrie's never been a high assist guy. Now, maybe that'll change. And Lillard hadn't been hugely high. But the point where our position is kind of morphed into we need you to score, not be 10 assists. Guys that score an assist. John Wall, Russell Westbrook. John Wall's 19 a game. These guys are 24-26. We're not talking about that guy. Yeah, he don't get his eyes on that guy. You're dodging the question like you were ducking me last week. Honestly, this is a no, you can't lose because they're both outstanding. So who you got? I probably, they're both relatively, they're both pretty poor defensively. OK. Lillard's ranks, ranks as slightly better than Kyrie. But gun to my head, I probably take, man, that's a, probably take Lillard. Oh. Slightly. OK. I'm happy with either one. I mean, it's tough. That's the tough one. So the other reason is that I have a problem with this. How do you judge Kyrie? He goes from being with LeBron and several questionable coaches to Brad Stevens. And Brad Stevens is offense. Like you said, Al Horford led them an assist for a while. I'm shocked that Kyrie's a better shooter. You know, he's a better finisher around the root. There's almost no better finisher in the NBA right now. Yeah. Tremendous finisher. I can't find an area that Lillard is demonstrably better. Although I will say at the end of games. There's not one where he's demonstrably better. At the end of games, he's lights out. But so is Kyrie. Kyrie has also, because he hit game seven. He's hit in the freaking game, same seven. So player efficiency rating 25 to 24. Kyrie's slight advantage. I think both these guys, we talked about this before, both guys will make all NBA probably second team unless DeRozan squeezes in there. But right now the NBA point cards are, I would say better than they've ever been. The depth is tremendous. When John Wall is not even a top five point card. Okay. Right. That's your, I mean, you got, you got, you got Curry Harden, Westbrook. Dame Kyrie. Lillard Kyrie. I mean, look, Lillard, Kyrie, Wall, they're going to rotate. Ben Symex is on the come up right now. I mean, Ben Symex is going to be there. The condition is tremendous. I will say this though, the change in the game, back in this eighties point guards were feet, post feeding big men. Okay. If they had shot as much, if their offense was, I get to dominate the ball and dribble all I want. And, you know, shoot as much as I want. We don't have a four or five man that's going to score 20 points a game. Then a lot of them might would put up similar numbers. So I don't, I don't know if it may just be that the emphasis of the game has changed from big to small and three point line from post to three pointer. That may be what has them playing better. Look, they're great. But I don't know that they're necessarily better. I just like this matchup. That's a tough one. You would have a hard time picking a closer matchup. Yes, it is amazing. In those two, because they're really close. Would it push you toward Kyrie if the Celtics make a run to the Eastern Conference finals? Because again, this team would, I fully expect them to make a run to the Eastern Conference finals. I mean, if they lose, if they lose to Toronto, I don't know if they could meet Toronto in the second round or whatever. I wouldn't be shot. I wouldn't be down on them. They were playing LeBron in the second round right now, Boston would. Well, if they beat the Cavs. Well, then it's Kyrie hands down. But can they beat the kid? Can Kyrie beat LeBron? I don't know if it's hands down because look, the East is so much weaker, you know, better than it was last year. Really? You don't think the Sixers would then beat it? But that's at the bottom. That's not. I'm talking about at the top. Those teams are going to push them, guys. You still have one elite team. And that's Cleveland. You think they're elite? I don't think so. I think it's Warriors and Rockets up here than the second level. I'll give you that. The presence of LeBron and athletic role players and shooters around him makes them elite. Okay. I will agree. I will actually concede that this was a split. I'll give you a point. I get a point here. So I win. First of all, is it your podcast? No, it's not. You lucky. You even in that scene. What the people in YouTube are all about. I give the points. I give the points. Really? I think they're saying that here. Yeah, all right. Jay Mac. Jay. Look, this was you. Oh, damn. This is me. Cold blooded. Stand tall. Good job. All right. Oh, by the way, let me get in. I can't believe you went down on rust like that. Are you going to Cavs Lakers this weekend? I'm going to be out of town, so I will. Oh, no. I thought you would have dinner with Maverick and LeBron. Are you going? I may. I may be going. All right. You're going with your Lakers tank top? No, no. With James on the back. My kids will be wearing their LeBron jerseys. You're going to have a James on the back. LeBron's in LA, baby. It's happening. All right. For knockdown, Jay. I'm Chris Broussard. My man, Jason McIntyre. Catch you next week. All right. Here we go with a special on the road edition of In The Zone with Matt Barnes. Man. We at your house in the LA area. Man, I appreciate it, man. Thanks for having us over here. Like the Tupac shirt. You got some great art all over the place. Tupac, your favorite rapper? Tupac is my favorite human. You know what I mean? Definitely rapper. But I just think he was so much more than a rapper. But yeah, I just have cool. I'm a big fan of kind of helping people expand their brand and their business. So I find local artists off Instagram, kind of all over the United States. And now they want to send me stuff, but I'll buy stuff and post for them and kind of help grow their gathering and get other athletes to do the same thing. So I was fortunate enough to have some cool stuff. Yeah. Some great stuff, man. Great shots. So you reach out to people. You just reach out to them. They must be shocked. Yeah. They are definitely. It's really cool. You know what I mean? They're authentic. And I just think music and art are just something I wish I can do. It's such a creative space. And like I said, I just love being able to help people. Are you into, like, do you do any art or music or anything like that? I buy it and listen to it. Yeah. That's about it. You never rapped or anything back in the day? No. I respect the craft too much to try to cross over like that. So even back in the day, though, when you was a kid, you didn't run? Never. I just knew I was an athlete. That's what I did. I respect each craft too much to try to cross over and do some stuff like that. Because I don't have the time to be good at it. Yeah. What do you think about the players that rapped? Some guys could really rap. You know, some guys could like Dame, Lilac could really rap. You know, Steven Jackson could really rap. It's something you can do. Do it. It just wasn't really for me. Yeah. Yeah. You heard Lonzo's mixtape? Yeah. I just heard Snidbits. But, you know, I like it. You know, he's a talented kid, man. And I really think the basketball side is starting to show. And I'm happy for him. He's playing well. I mean, you play with a lot of great players. Having a teammate like that, I don't want to compare it to the greats that you play with. But having a guy that's straight, trying to pass and get you involved. How much do guys enjoy that? It's special. It's special to be able to affect the game without necessarily scoring a bunch of points. You know, it takes a special individual. And I was blessed to play with a lot of them. Steve Nash, Chris Paul, guys that really can do either or, but would rather pass. You know what I mean? So someone like Lonzo is a special talent. And I think he kind of took it off to a slow start because, one, it's just a new experience. He's 1920. But then all the trash talking with his dad in the world, you know what I mean? So I think everything's kind of simmered down and you're starting to see him kind of get it a little bit. But he's going to be a special player. You got two boys. They play? Yeah. They're young. I know nine, right, twins? Yeah. No. I mean, don't get me wrong. I like what LeVar is doing. I mean, he loves his boys. You know what I mean? And he realized he has something special. You know, I don't agree with everything he does, but I'd much rather be there doing that than not be around doing nothing. Yeah. My boys, I'm different, you know, to each their own. You know, I just have a different way of going about it and motivating them and getting them to do stuff and teaching them about life. You know what I mean? So, but I'm definitely going to be a dad that's very hands on. So we were talking earlier before we got on the camera. Kevin Love came out with a big article today in the Players Tribune. A really good article, insightful about kind of mental illness among athletes. And he said he had a couple panic attacks during games and he's seeing a therapist and stuff. And you were saying how, you know, people don't appreciate what athletes, those are. We go through a lot. And I think that because we make a lot of money, people just expect us to be super human and we're not. We're just like everyone else. We just happen to be good at something that, you know, pays a lot. But I can completely understand. I still, you know, with Kevin and with DeMar DeRosen speaking on it, I think throughout sports because we, especially in basketball, you know, I played through the death of my mom the day after my mom died. I played just to kind of, you know, stay, get it off my mind. I went through a very public divorce. I went through a very public fight with Derek Fisher, you know, but all this and people are saying good, bad and indifferent. I'm still dealing with emotions all the time, but I have to be able to put those away because I'm playing basketball still. You know what I mean? So we have to kind of suppress a lot of things and a lot of times it doesn't get to come to the surface. And you know, you'll see one of us either go off or go into a depression or go into, you know, you don't know what direction people go. So it's definitely a serious issue in pro sports. Do coaches, I mean, are you able to go talk to anybody? It's hard. I think it's hard because as a man, you don't want to admit you have, you know, it's kind of like a pride thing. You know, but I can't really, I've been fortunate enough to never have it. You know, I've had, I've had anger issues up and down, but I've never had an anxiety attack or really had any type of depression. You know what I mean? I just, I dealt with myself a different way, but so I can't speak to their nature, but it's just tough. You know, but I definitely something that needs to be talked about and addressed and I'm glad these guys are brave enough to do it. Yeah, it really is good. So you retired officially in December. What's the one thing that stood out to you about the league since you've retired? Anything in particular? The refs. So what? Yeah, what's the deal? So bad, man. They're so bad. So the players aren't just bugging? No, I just, now that I'm not in it, I'm not emotionally tied to it. I still get so irritated by refs because I think it's so much ego they have. I think it's a prideful thing. And with all due respect, they're doing a very tough job. Don't get me when their job is tough, but it's to the point where you can't say anything to them. You know what I mean? Especially these young refs. I mean, they're so T happy. You know what I mean? And you got to think you have kids, you know, and I have kids. I know when my kids are getting excited to watch a game or go to a game that night, they're not saying, Daddy, I can't wait to go see these refs, to give players teas. Like they're going to say, I can't get ready to see KD or Steph or LeBron. Like they want to see these players and these refs are taking everything so personal and T and these people out and throwing them out, messing up the whole flow of the game. And it really bothers me. So that's a lot different from when you came. Right. And it bothered me. I mean, I lost a lot of money while I was playing because of it. But now that I have, you know, I'm completely disconnected, the refs are terrible. So the Warriors, the atmosphere you were just describing, you never felt that anywhere else? I felt it the first time around and go in the state, but we weren't ready for it. We didn't know what it was. Management wasn't ready for it. Like we had a bond on a different type of level that this team has. But we had it was just, it was crazy, but it was a bond. You know what I mean? But I felt maybe it's the city. You know what I mean? Maybe it's the city that gets behind you because the city is so proud of you and you always want to put on for the city. But those two Warrior teams were the two closest teams I've ever had where there was no ego from any of the stars and everybody just wanted to win. What was it like? Because when you went there, they had KD and stuff and those like, how, what was that dynamic like? I mean, you got two, probably the top three players in the world. It was amazing to see that everyone just wanted to win despite what you mentioned. Coach Kerr is a rock star in his own sense, you know, from being one of just a cool layback. Someone that the players like because he speaks up not only about basketball, but life in general, you know, the good guys. So everyone had their own little, they didn't travel in entourage, but they all had their big own fan bases, you know what I mean? So to bring all those guys under one roof and be able to get them to just want to play basketball for one another and love each other and know that the common goals that we all do our jobs. We're going to win a championship is amazing. You know, you got KD who's the MVP, you got Steph who's the MVP, you got Clay who's going to go down as one of the greatest shooters ever. You got Draymond who is an underdog, but to me, if you lose him, there's no warriors. You know what I mean? So you got so many different amazing aspects to that team and they can come together like this for the common goal. Is Draymond the inspirational leader? There's no question for the whole organization, not just the team. He holds everybody accountable. Like he talks to the owner. He'll say something to the coaches, to the management. He'll get Steph so getting KDs. And that's what you need. You need someone that because in this game, there's so many people that are, you know, yes, men to you in this. And that's not how you, you know, this is where men, this is not how you're going to make it work. You know what I mean? You need real in your life and Draymond gives them all real. And he also gives us just a sense of I got your back type situation. That's why he and I bonded so well and we still talk, you know, weekly almost. It's just like the way we have our teammates back and the confidence they have when we're out there on the court with us is just like it's, you know, you can do your job because anything else I got. And Draymond, you know, Steph, do your job, KD, do your job because anything else I got. You know what I mean? So when we see him on TV yelling at teammates or whatever and the media responds like, oh, they're going to get tired of that. They don't know. No. Draymond is probably one of the most loved person in that locker room. You know, to me, Draymond is going to be someone like a, and this is no disrespect because Chuck's intelligent, but just a different form of Chuck, like just a more versed version of Charles Barkley when he's done playing. Like he's a very personable, very well spoken articulate, can hold conversations in any realm of life. You know, he's just a real deep dude. But what you see is a competitor like you saw of me. So you're going to see me cussing the other team out, getting a tackle foul, yelling at my teammates sometimes or getting back and forth with my teammates or getting into my coach because we're just passionate. But at the same time, we're still the person that, you know, everyone rallied around. Now you had a rep, you mentioned it earlier, thug, tough guy, you know, bully. You had that reputation as one of the tougher guys in the league. How do you think that came about? Um, I just, it's funny because I think, cause people think like, cause the way I look, you know, cause I've been called a pretty boy. You know what I mean? But people don't know the way I grew up. You know what I mean? Like I said, my dad was a drug dealer. So I've seen my dad do some crazy stuff. You know what I mean? And my dad always fought. And the one thing he taught me at an early age was protect your family at all costs. So if my brother or sister kind of fought, I fought no matter what. And if I didn't, I was going to get my ass whipped when I went home. So I just grew up fighting always. So you've gotten a lot of fights. Lots of fights. And then when I first started going to school, so we lived in a bad neighborhood, but my parents always put me in white schools and I didn't like it. I mean, I'm Italian and black, but I consider myself a black man because of the way I've been treated and the path I've taken with the racism I faced. But my parents would put me in white schools and I didn't like it because I used, my friends were Mexican and black. And I didn't really know how to, you know, verse with white kids early on, like third grade. I can remember when I first got to Sacramento and it was just, I wasn't white enough and I wasn't black enough. So I was just always fighting and how I really started getting accepted was because I was the best at all the sports. You know what I mean? So I was always the best at everything. So that's when people kind of gave me a chance to even be accepting of me. And then once they got a chance to know me, it was I still have friends from third grade. You know what I mean? So it's just once they gave me a chance. So I've just always grew up rough and then I just happen to look like this. You know what I mean? So people, he's fake or he's this, he's that. And like, but the people that grew up me and know me just like, no, Matt is the one that will fight in the heartbeat. And it's not, it's just, it's not something I'm proud. I'm not the toughest guy by any means, but it's just the way I was raised. And like, am I like just, I'm a big on respect, like respect me and I'm respect you. You know what I mean? Like I said, I'm not the toughest guy, but we're all men at the end of the day. So even if I'm going to take an L, like you're not going to disrespect because we'll probably go. You know what I mean? So it's just the way I grew up. I'm working on it. I hope that the Fisher fight is my last fight, but I just, you never know in life. That's true. That's true. You mentioned Derek Fisher that that whole fight. Now you say recently you guys are cool now. Yeah, we're fine. Yeah. So how did that kind of, because obviously that's a personal situation. How did it come to be where you could be like forgiving my guests and be like, it'll be good. I just think the situation of, you know, Max and I separated, you know, I ended up divorcing her. I just think the situation ran its course. So I wasn't in love with her anymore. I love her and I still love her. She's the mother of my children. I'm going to, from that standpoint, there's always going to be love, but just as far as like someone that I wanted to continue to grow with or grow old, it just wasn't there anymore. So in the situation. So even when you. Yeah, after we split, you know, so that's the whole thing when people are like, well, you're jealous or Derek stole her from you or you're not over. It wasn't that that had nothing. It had something to do with it. But what it was was, you know, you're around my kids without telling me. That's what, but you're in the house that I pay for. First of all, with my ex, which is whatever, but you're around Mike, Mike, Isaiah and Carter. And you know, you know, because we were teammates, how much those boys mean to me. You knew him probably. Yeah, he already come on, man. Oh, he was there. We were teammates. You know what I mean? So that's my whole thing. So when I approached him, because we've seen each other several times, there was just no conversation. He would look down, look away, walk away, whatever. Did he treat you differently? No, we just didn't speak. Oh, really? Because he would be at my kid. He would be at my kids games. You know what I mean? So because, you know, him and my ex were together still. So he'd be at my kids games and just there would be nothing. I'm just thinking this is at some point. Oh, this is since the fight. Since the fight. Since the fight. Because I didn't know that's the day I found out was the day we fought. So had you seen him many, you know, like when he's dating your ex-wife, had you seen him and just been like everything was cool? I've seen him plenty of times. Because like I said, I see him at my kids games. But there was just no, no conversation, you know, which was, and to me, what got me, like what made me be like, and I was cool with that. Like I wasn't tripping. Like it was what it was. We're not like keeping you guys from each other. Like we fought and I explained why we fought and that's what it was. You know what I mean? But just seeing him around and then my boys really took a liking to him. You know what I mean? And, you know, daddy, I want, we want you and Derek to be friends and he's a good guy. And I knew outside of the movie pool, he was a cool dude. Like I said, we were teammates. You know what I mean? And fish was a cool dude. You know what I mean? So the fact that the boys liked him and I was just like, I would probably sound like seven to ten times it was nothing. And so just one time after the boys football game, I just stopped him, you know, and my ex was there too. And I just pulled him to the side and explained why I fought him and he understood and he apologized. And then, you know, I said, I apologize for letting it escalate to a fight. But it just, you know, kind of was what it was. Like I said, I explained that the fact that it wasn't the fact that it was my ex. It was the fact that you're in my house with my kids and you don't tell me. That's the whole thing. So, I mean, like I said, my whole thing now is here and I are cool. I actually communicate better with him than I do with my ex. You know what I mean? So I want them to be happy. You know, like I said, it's about my kids now. You know what I mean? So he makes my kids happy. I'm happy. So that's really all that is. That takes a lot, man. Yeah. And I hit him with some real stuff. Like you're around my kids more than I am. You know what I mean? Like that's how deep, like I'm a man about it. You know what I mean? Like you're the man figure in their life more because Gloria has them more than I do. So you're going to have to teach them how to be men and how to maneuver and discipline them in the right way. Like I gave a lot of considering everything that went down. Like I gave them a lot of respect from that standpoint. You know what I mean? Like when I'm not around, you're the man around. I mean, that's how I really kept it with them. So like I said, I just want to co-parent and be happy and do everything possible to make these boys have the best childhood of their lives and grow up to be productive men. How close were you and Fish? I mean, we all just cool teammates. We were teammates. We were cool. You know what I mean? Like if you look back, like he came to our events. You know what I mean? We met his wife, Gloria and his wife were cool. Like it was, it was some ill, like just the unspoken rule. You don't do. Can I say? Okay. Yeah. I mean, it's just something you don't do. You know what I mean? So we had hung out. You know, he was, he was, he was my, you know, he was my OG really. He was an older player on my team. You know what I mean? So, and I'd always respected him before. There was always love before. Cause like I said, he's a stand up dude. So when it went down, it was funny. But like I said, it's you can't help who you fall in love with or whatever the situation is. There's just a, there's a special way to handle it. And neither of them handled it that way. So what I did happen. Yeah. No, that's, that's, that's good man. All right. So, um, your former, one of your, your former teammates, uh, Austin Rivers, you called him a fake tough guy and arrogant. Why do you feel that way? I don't remember calling him fake, a fake tough guy. That's not, not, not something I really say. But I said, I did say arrogant and because he is, you know what I mean? And that's just who he is. He, I mean, if you ask him, I was the first one to put my arm around him. Uh, when he got to LA and just said, no, you, you need anything. You know, LA is so much more than basketball. And I, I mean, obviously I think Austin realized that now you're getting hit every different direction every day because that's what people are doing. Like whether it's, you know, people that don't like you, people that like you, the media loves you, hates you. It's just a lot going on the nightlife. Like you have to really be able to focus and lock in. And I was just the one thing I put my arm around. I'm like, yo, this is, LA is crazy. If you need anything, let me know. We could talk, do it, have lunch or whatever. So I was, so I did that. But just seeing him and being around him is just, he's just an arrogant dude and he rubbed some people the wrong way. Like I didn't trip cause he was my teammate. So like if he got into it, I got into it. I still had his back to the fullest, just like I had everyone else's back. But just after not being on his team and then seeing the kind of the same way he carries himself and talking trash to players, why he's hurt. Like I, I just know, you know what I mean? I already know what that's about. So I see why them dudes were mad. Like I get it. It doesn't make them a bag. It's just who he is. Like I said, we were cool with teammates. I mean, you can ask him and he ain't, I ain't got nothing bad to say about him from that standpoint, but it's just, he carries himself with the arrogance that a lot of people don't like. Now you were on the Clippers team when y'all beat Golden State and then the next year in the playoffs, the next year they start, they just go to a whole other level. What was your like, I thought y'all had championship type. We had a, there's no question. Our, our, the Clippers biggest weakness was our mental toughness. Physically, on paper, in the games, we could beat anybody. Our biggest obstacle and what held us back from a championship was our mental toughness. There was just too many, too many egos, some, some young acting, so some young acts. And, you know, the transition from Vinny to Doc. Yeah. There was just things that, that didn't get ironed out, but if they were ironed out, there was no question that we were one of the most talented teams in the league during that time. Were you surprised when Chris left? Yeah. Mixed feelings. And I want to get to when Blake left too. But you know, Chris just wanted to win. You know what I mean? Chris, I think sometime received the wrong way, but as just someone that you want to go out and compete with in, in the foxhole with, you want to see P on your team. So to see him, to see him go was tough. But at the same time now, when I talked to him and I just saw his family a couple of weeks ago, like he looks so happy out there. And I'm, as a friend of his, I'm happy for him. You mean, but like there's three teams that really have a hold on my heart when the NBA is the Lakers, Clippers, and Warriors. You know what I mean? So I'm always going to be fans of those teams. So to be a fan of the Clippers still, then I'm done playing it. It would hurt me to see Chris go. But I think to even touch back to your point earlier, you know, playing with the passing point guard, I think DJ realized how important Chris was. You know what I mean? The Clippers as a whole realized how important Chris was. You know what I mean? Because if he wasn't, Chris is someone that can take over the fourth quarter by himself and score 20, or he can make sure that we have a 40-point quarter in a team, like Chris could do either or, and they don't have that no more. You know, D'Andre's not getting those easy lives that he took for granted with Chris would throw that sh** like this. You know what I mean? Because Chris is a hall of fame once in a lifetime type point guard. Now you mentioned Blake, the trade from the Clippers. Were you shocked at that? Upset about that? I was, same thing with Chris. Like I'm just like, damn, I was a Clipper fan, like, but then you start thinking too, on the business side of basketball, then just basketball as a whole. I think, you know, Blake needed a breath of fresh air. You know what I mean? I think they had probably, obviously reached the ceiling with the team they had. So from a business side of it, like as a fan, I was hurt. Like I said, I'm a Clipper fan still. But on the basketball side, I don't know if he wanted to go to Detroit because there's freezing. He's been in LA his whole career, but he got a fresh start. You know, he looks like he's having fun again. He's smiling. He's out there playing well. And then for the Clippers, what they got back is, they got nice pieces to buy. His hairs can really play. Avery and Bradley can really play. Who else they get? I got one more person. Avery and... I got three people. Their names? Those were the main two, I believe. Yeah. But those, like those guys can really play. You know what I mean? So I think the trade worked out good for, but I think the Clippers are a better team now with the guys they've added. But like I said, as a fan, it was bittersweet to see him go. What was it like playing with Kobe? Amazing. Really cool, man, especially because of the way it came about. It started back, you know, at UCLA when he would come and work out and play and always just thinking, I remember at UCLA, I was thinking, like, damn, he's only a year and a half older than me. Like, I'm gonna have to be able to guard, you know, be able to handle that. When I'm at UCLA, I'm thinking that when I'm seeing, I remember the one year he broke his right hand. So he was up at UCLA doing all left-handed workouts. And that was the year he came back shooting left-handed all the time. Yeah, yeah. He was doing his whole work. I left him like, this dude's a monster. You know what I mean? So I was always like kind of like, man, I gotta be ready for him. So he was someone my whole career that I locked in on and always wanted to battle with. Every time we went, whether I was playing a lot or got on for a couple of minutes, we battled, you know what I mean? So it was always, I think there was a mutual respect there. Then fast forward to Orlando, 2010 and people still talk about this sh** in 2018. But, you know, the ball fake thing. Yeah. And that was a crazy game because that was a really good game. Like, that was towards the end of the season. We were going back and forth, but he was just on his Kobe sh**, like elbowing me and grabbing me and doing dirty things and like the rest weren't calling and it was pissing me off. So I just, you know, I was just, I was to the point where like, okay, we're about to fight. You know what I mean? It's just what it was. So when I took the ball out, if you watch me, I was, it wasn't premeditated or nothing. I literally just, I don't even know where it came from. I just really ball fake. But if you watch me, I'm looking at Vince come off this pit because I'm trying to hit Vince for a backdoor on our in-bounds play. But for some reason just, I guess my arms had a thing of their own and just like f**k it. You know what I mean? So once everything happened and I saw the film and saw that it came like with an eyelashes of him and he didn't flinch. I'm like, that's a cold boy right there boy. You know what I mean? But then, you know, then my situation, Orlando fell through and you know, he was someone that called me up like a couple of days in free agency, you know, and asked me if I wanted to be a Laker and Lakers were my favorite team growing up. I'm just like, damn, this is Kobe asking me if I want to be his teammate. Like, hell yeah. Like I was the biggest Magic Johnson fan. You know, and I remember Kobe saying, anyone crazy enough to f**k with me is crazy enough to play with me. You know what I mean? So that's how that started. And then I remember just one quick story about when we first went to Spain because we were going back for a pow and we were playing over there. Everyone was taking their family and he was over there with his headphones on and we had our cubby holes because they were flying overseas and I thought he was rapping. I didn't know, you know, he had that rap. But he was over there just jamming. So I thought he was rapping and I just got, and then I saw him doing stuff so I was going to go, because I couldn't sleep. So I went over to see what he was doing and he had a bunch of different courts drawn on this piece of paper and he told me I'm looking for where you guys are going to be open out of the offense. So he says, I never look at the guy guarding me. I'm always looking at the help and the half-man that have their eyes on me. Wow. I'm like, what the f***? But he had 20 or 30 little courts with diagrams drawn up like where he can pass us the ball at. Wow. And that s*** blew me away, man. I just knew that he was just on a different level. You know what I mean? And then, you know, going out to Orange County and working out with him sometime in the summertime is early morning, you know, track sessions, wait, you know, wait sessions. Like, he was completely dialed into basketball. You know what I mean? And I think that's what made him so great. So his work ethic, his competitiveness is like legendary. It's legit. It is not a myth. Yeah. No, I went to his camp one time in Santa Barbara and me and him played these kids two on two and he was like Kobe game seven against these 12-year-olds like blocking shots, dunking on it. I was like, yo, chill, bro. Now he was like, no, nothing easy. And like, I was thinking like, these are young kids. Yeah, wow. And he was going, like I said, he was Kobe game seven out there, shot faking them and dunking. I was just like, I just kind of sat back and just gave him the ball. I'd be like, in the real game, I just gave him the ball every time and kind of watched him go to work. But it was just like, that's where his mind was always at. Like, when he was between those lines, I don't give a f*** who I'm playing. Like, it's on. And I love that about it. I remember, remember he had that commercial early in his career where he was putting some little boy who was maybe eight years old that he was playing against and he was blocking the shot and all that stuff. That's real. That's real. Nothing fake about that. But look, man, it's been an honor talking with you. Thank you, man. Appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Thank you for coming through, man.