 So we hear the ID Tech X and who are you? My name is Max Kuhl and I work for a VS Particle and we are... Yes, sorry? And you have a machine right here? Yes, yes. This is our nano aerosol generator. And so we... I think what we do, we do a lot what the people at the other side do, but they do it with inks and we do it with aerosols. So we get rid of the ink. No ink? No ink. Aerosol, what is that? Aerosol, aerosol is so... What we make, this machine is a nano aerosol generator. What it does, you have two electrodes. Metal can be any conductive material as long as it's solid. Between these two electrodes we put a high voltage and sparks form. These sparks will evaporate the top of the electrodes. At the same time we have a gas flowing past and it takes the atoms with it and they form nanoparticles in the gas. So we actually form a mist, a dust of nanoparticles. Sounds dangerous, but if you do it right you can do it really, really safe. So that's the first step. Gas. Gas with nanoparticles. It's like a little accelerator. No, no, no, no. It's not an accelerator. No, gas comes in. Is there anything that's used a lot in the industry? No, this is completely new technology. You're the only one who has something like that. Nobody has something like this. You're the only one. Yeah? So the next step, this gas comes out here and then we deposit it. So we can spray it onto substrates and then these nanoparticles will, they will deposit on the substrates and then you have a very, very pure layer. And one example, for example in here, this is a nanopore structure which we can print. And this, this is pure because we don't use any organic components. So it's really, the argon comes in. If you use gold electrodes, for example, you have a gold nanostructure. If you have nickel electrodes, you have a nickel nanostructure. So the whole process is material agnostic as long as the material is conductive. And it is solid. We can turn it into nanoparticles. You can turn it into a nano aerosol and you can deposit it on a substrate. Do you have some examples of the end result? Yeah, for example, so this is silicon chips. And here we wrote gold lines. These are copper lines. We also have silver lines. So this is not the smallest resolution we can do. This is a few millimeters wide. But we now are working on technology where we can go down to a 100 micron spot and write 100 micron wide lines. So this is a big deal or what? We think it's a big deal. Is it going to work? Is it working? It is working. But are you printing very intricate things or just lines for now? No, so the important thing is we print nano. Are you not printing? What are you not printing? Yeah, define printing. What is this? Is this printing? Printing, what we see is printing is the fact that it's local. So we can locally, as you see in here, we can locally write lines. But the material is nanostructured. So it has quantum mechanical properties dominated. And if you look, for example, as this porous material, it's extremely sensitive to chemicals, but also to heat. And what you can do, if you take, for example, nickel and you use oxygen as a gas, you can create nickel oxide and really print nickel oxide atmospheric sensors. So then you really use the nanostructured properties to make a novel material. Other things you can do is that this is heated. If you heat these lines, they melt really quickly, already at 200, 300 degrees Celsius. So you can really locally pattern these materials. And so this is the generator we have at this moment. What is done here, the box inside? It's all the software to control and the high voltage supply. No, this is high hardware. But there's a high voltage supply in there. So this is just the generator, which we sell commercially now and globally. But we were going bigger. We also want to do the deposition steps. We really want to be a nano aerosol company. And for example, this, this is a new product which we're going to launch in 2019. Is it the closed system? It's a closed system. So this is a nano porous material printer, where the generator here will be beneath here. And the only thing you have to do is add your substrate, choose the material you want, and the pattern, and then you can print. And you never see the nano part. So here you have the table of elements? Yes. And what do you do? You click, click. I want some aluminum or something. For example. And then... It shows the possibility. You need to have the electrodes, yes. But it shows that the process is material agnostic. Have you put the electrodes like liquid? Or what is it? No, solid. You just, you just turn them in. It will take you five minutes to replace the electrodes. It's as simple as that. But if you have the electrodes, this system can print with that material. Electrodes of gold. Boke metal. Gold, the canals be copper, can be iron, can be zinc, can be nickel, can be dope silicon, as long as it's conductive and a solid. But electrode is something that's tiny, right? But how do you just put it in? No, no, not necessarily. How do you put it in? Is it powder? No. No, just the bulk. Just bulk? Just bulk, yes. You fix it in. At this moment, there's just a screw. So you screw it in. But we're also now developing a new system where you can click them in. Wow. But that's engineering. That's not... How do you come up with this? Is it like an invention? Nobody has it? No, no, no. It's a spin-off from the University of Delft. So it's from Professor Schmitot and he has worked on it for 30 years now. Wow. About and a few... But now it's becoming a machine. Yeah, yeah. So the technology, it's the sparkablation technology. It's what? Sparkablation. That's the technology to turn the bulk material into nanoparticles. And it's widely used in the universities. But a few years ago, the professor had the idea, hey, maybe we should make a commercial company out of this and together with a PSD student and a master's student, they three founded this company and now we're three to four years old. And we have now our commercial nanoparticle generator and now we're taking the next step and also incorporating deposition into the whole leap, into turning into a full nano aerosol process technology company where we do the generation, the characterization and filtering and the deposition of nano aerosols and working with nano aerosols resulting in very pure layers and very interesting nanostructured layers which we can print in a wide range of materials. What's going to happen in the future then? It's going to be just like printing like full motherboards. Yeah. High-cooled deco. Yes. Very nano, nano scale. We're talking nano. You say nano many times. At this moment, spot size is 100 microns. We know we can go down to 10 microns but what you can also do, you can take the material because it's so sensitive to heat, you can pattern it. For example, take laser writing and you can locally pattern the material and it will melt locally. For example, for light, the resolution is about one micron, 600 nanometers. So you can make these structures and remove the other material and then you can make even smaller patterns but in an additive way, additive manufacturing way, we're now aiming with this system to 100 microns but we know there are techniques to go down to 10 microns. And 10 microns allows for what? Very advanced electronics? Well, the most advanced would be the upper distribution layers on CPUs but also for PCB boards would be already very, very interesting. Even the most advanced PCB board for like a smartphone? Or no? Not that big. That I'm not sure about the feature size there. Maybe, yes. Is it expensive to print your kind of thing? It's not necessarily expensive. It wouldn't beat the cheapest options but there are interesting niche markets where our material has a superior performance or it has a certain functionality which is better compared to other materials. But this system is also aimed at this moment also for research because it's really, really easy to replace the electrodes and the fact that the process material is agnostic. It's easy, so one day you use gold. A few hours later you want to use copper. And normally if you do a wet chemical synthesis of nanoparticles it takes weeks and weeks to find a new recipe to make these particles but here it takes five minutes to replace the electrodes and the system works again. What is this? It looks like a little window or something. It's a window. So when this system runs you can see the sparks happening in the window. Safely. Safely, exactly. But at this moment the system is not connected. How much does this cost and how much does that cost? This costs about around 60,000 euros. 60,000? So it's not cheap but it's also not very expensive. And this? And that system we still need to see what the price is going to be. This discussion, on the discussion you say. What do you say how much? No, we still need to see what the price is going to be. We need to figure it out, yeah. Cool. So is there a lot of demand for this? Yeah, so a lot of people are really enthusiastic. So the first most logical application is people that already know how to work with nano aerosols. So for example people looking at exhausts, at cars, they need to measure the particles of diesel cars, for example. And then such a system, outputs a predefined distribution of particles so they can check their machines, for example. So Volkswagen will buy a few. Ah, we don't know. Okay, I'm joking, yeah. Yeah. But what we found out in the last few years that people, they want also these particles on substrates because then you can make the porous layers or you can deposit single nanoparticles or a layer of single nanoparticles. And there, there is a really, really big question, demand. And that's why we're developing these systems for the deposition and want to do and a generation of deposition of nano aerosols. How soon is it ready? 2019. Soon. That's quite soon. But this summer we will bring out small modules where you can, if you have this system connected to that system and also do small-scale deposition experiments. But this is going to be the full-fledged system where you don't have to worry about anything anymore. So how was the IDTEC Act show? It was interesting. A lot of different people most were interested and they, they will take the idea to their company and think about it a bit more because that's one of the big problems. This is a fully new technology. Some people need to get used. However, there were a few people that really, within a few senses, exactly understood and they said, hey, then you can do this. And we said, yes. And then they were really, really enthusiastic. So hopefully that will turn into a sale quickly but we'll see. So it could be a big deal in the future. What are you doing? Yeah, well, we hope, we hope. That's why we're starting, we're running this company.