 Hello and welcome to NewsClick. In this episode of International Roundup, we will be looking at the arrest of Meng Wanzhou, the CFO of Huawei, and the impact her detention could have on relations between US and China. We'll also be talking about the rising tensions between Israel and Lebanon, as Israel has claimed that it has discovered cross-border tunnels between the two countries, which it is saying have been constructed by Hezbollah for a possible invasion. So we are joined today by Prashant to talk more on this. So Prashant, starting with the Huawei issue, there has been no clear reason given by US or Canada as to why this detention has been done. But there is a lot of speculation ranging from the company violating US imposed sanctions on Iran to citing of national security concerns, because Huawei has been accused of spying in the past by use of its devices. So why do you think this detention has been made now? Before we exactly go into the implications, it's also important to, I think, look at the process, the development of the last couple of days. So she was arrested on the 1st of December, and she was in transit, which means that it was not that she was in Canada for a visit, or she was going to be there for a summit or whatever. She was actually just in transit, which means that this was a very carefully planned operation, which involved both the Canadian and the US authorities. So it was not done at the last minute, so that's very clear. So this was clearly planned from possibly the highest levels of authority. And then we also need to look at the people involved. For instance, Meng is among the, she's the daughter of the founder of Huawei, and she's also being considered as a possible successor to the company. So she's basically at the top of the Chinese corporate hierarchy. So she's not just your everyday executive or anything of that sort. So that's also an interesting point. And the third interesting thing to consider is also this happens when exactly around the same time the China, US trade negotiations were taking place. And so all these things considered, actually there's a lot, it really adds multiple layers of mystery we can see. So I think one of the key things to consider is that there is no real clarity about what kind of sanctions are being discussed here. So there are some media reports, that's also because of course there's been a blackout from Canada and the US. And there has been some media reports which say it's about involvement in say commercial transactions with Iran. But if you look at the past, Huawei has also been what do you call under investigation by US authorities even in 2016 on very similar grounds. So they were interacting with Iran and Syria. So this is a long pending process. And so this actually begs the question as to whether this is really about the sanctions at all. And in fact, I think when John Bolton was asked about it in a US national security advisor, he said he was aware of it. But he immediately, he didn't really talk about the sanctions. He talked about what he called national security clits. So that really begs the question as to whether this is actually more about something on those lines. And then we also look at global certain trends that have been happening in the sense where New Zealand and Australia have recently blocked Huawei from their 5G infrastructure. Japan is considering the same. UK is also looking at that. So this basically seems more a reserve, more a matter of a telecom battle between the China and the US. And national security and sanctions are all being used as a pretext to kind of say conduct this battle. Because we know that the US itself gave China and seven other countries a window of 180 days to as far as the sanctions go. So it's clear that the sanctions are not this cast iron issue. So it seems more of a, say shall we say, a smoke screen. And then if you look at even the earlier instances where the US problem was that, again, they claimed that the problem was the fact that Huawei was investing in Iran, in Syria and all these countries. But if you look at the fact, I think it's more out of a fear, of a fear of a particular Chinese dominance over, say, the telecom market. And the interesting thing, it's almost really ironic, is that you have all these big executives from the US, the, say, tech executives coming in the media, talking about spying, talking about national security and all these issues. Whereas the funny thing is the fact that, of course, what do you call the US intelligence, the NSA itself, as Edward Snowden revealed, was instrumental in using US tech firms to actually conduct a much larger scale of spying. So it's funny that none of these media reports even mentioned Snowden or the NSA anywhere. In fact, Snowden also revealed in 2014 that the NSA had actually tried to hack Huawei as well. So this is actually, this seems more a part of that battle. It's more a part, a battle for the future of global telecom infrastructure. And the US, which is actually declining in its influence across the world, also sees the Chinese investments are going to many other countries. Chinese technology is becoming the backbone for the development of so many countries. So they have this whole sense of, I think there's this whole sense of paranoia, which is what has led to this. And we also need to look at how this could impact the trade relations between the two, because there is a trade war going on. And this, this detention came just one day after there was a sort of truth announced. So what could be the impact of this on the truth? And why do you think? So I'm actually very, I really don't think it's going to make, there's been a lot of, of course, China is very obviously expressed its anger over this. And for a very good reason also, because it is almost entirely arbitrary. But at the same time considering, and the US has also, I think, been trying to say that, you know, okay, this was not Trump's decision, because at least a couple of people said that Trump did not know of this detention, so to speak. So I think there's an attempt to nonetheless make sure that the trade, say, if we can say, deadlock, the breakthrough goes forward and the deadlock is broken. So I suspect both sides might not really drag this into the, drag this issue into this. But at the same time, I think that whatever happens on the trade side, this issue is actually something that needs to be looked at from the perspective of, say, the larger global, say, battle for the infrastructure, shall we say, so to speak. And how the US is increasingly worried about it and it's resorting to desperate measures, because this is clearly a desperate measure. And a couple of years ago, a much smaller Chinese firm called ZTE was also, say, under scrutiny by the US for under similar accusations, national security spying and all, and finally an agreement was reached. But Huawei is much, much, much bigger. It's the second largest manufacturer of cell phones and it's infrastructural, say, what do you call it? The equipment provides the basis for a lot of, say for instance, the 5G networks in many countries across the world. So this actually points to, say, a battle behind the scenes, so to speak, if you can call it that way. And it really depends on, say, how much China chooses to leverage this issue also. And bring it into the trade talks. So that really is something we need to see. I think the Chinese have indicated that this is not really going to affect it. But nevertheless, I'm very sure bring it up because as far as they're concerned, someone like her would be at the very top of there. Huawei is considered a national champion in China, which is one of the major, most significant companies. So I think for them it would be also very problematic to let this go. So they'll definitely take it up. And some sort of, say, I suspect an arrangement, something might be reached. But I would think that this thing is not over yet, because if Japan's decision, say, takes effect. And I think in across the world the US is trying to exert whatever influence it has to kind of pressurize country to take a similar path to basically block out Chinese technology and Chinese infrastructure as much as possible. So in a sense, if you can call it another kind of trade war, so to speak. So I think that's the context in which we need to see all this. And moving on to the Israel and Lebanon issue, Israel's saying that it has found cross-border tunnels also come right after Netanyahu corruption charges being filed against Netanyahu. Because the discovery itself seems a little, Lebanon has been saying that they don't have any proof of tunnels. And the invasion plan seems somewhat absurd. So what do you feel, could this be a distraction from the corruption charges? Right, so if you look at the map, the city of Metula, which is where in Israeli territory, which is where they claim to have discovered these tunnels. Now, the first thing that I can think of is actually at the end of, say, April, if I'm not mistaken, when Netanyahu went to the UN and did this whole presentation on what he called as his discovery of Iranian nuclear material being, nuclear tests and stuff like that. And everyone said this is old information and it is obviously a pretext. It is obviously just a massive stage-managed drama. Now, this again seems something very much similar. Because the Israeli claim is that these tunnels are going to be used by his bullet to mount an invasion into the north of Israel. And they have leaked to the media, very conveniently, of course. Extensive plans of how they're going to take over these outposts. They're going to, say, block the advance of troops on this route. They're going to basically make sure that the north of Israel is completely, say, taken away. Whereas all this, the key question here is what is the incentive for his bullet to do something like this? There's absolutely nothing. What is it, why would he even try something like this at this point of time? So that really, there's really no logic to it. And then, so it all boils down to domestic question in Israel again. So like you said, Netanyahu, the police have said that he can be indicted for bribery. And this is the third case in which, the third case of corruption in which he's in trouble. And this is the biggest case so far, involving the state, what do you call, communications firm. So that's one aspect. And of course, you must remember that just last month his government was almost on the verge of collapse. And at that point, he was appearing as the less hawkish, because the other people involved, Naftali men, Liberman, Defense Department, Defense Minister, Liberman, they all took more hawkish positions. So suddenly, he came across as the weak person who had signed his truce with Gaza. So I think the discovery of these so-called tunnels need to be seen in this context. I suspect as much Netanyahu trying to prove that we are all for militancy that under me, the Israeli government and the Israeli military is completely ready. The elections are coming next year, of course. So it seems more like a domestic stunt than anything else. And as far as the Lebanese are concerned, I suspect, what do you call, from their side, they understand it too, because they, of course, claim that there is no evidence. And Hezbollah also really doesn't have any reason to worry, because it's in a relatively, shall we say, it has some influence in Syria as well. And we also need to consider Syria in this context, because Israel is increasingly getting shut out of the whole Syrian equation, so to speak, especially I think the latest S-300 air defense units have been operationalized, if I'm not mistaken. And with more equipment coming in from Russia, including more coordinating equipment, equipment to coordinate military operations, this actually restricts the possibility of Israel launching the kind of operations it once could do freely. So when Syria gets slowly shut out as an option for Israel, I think it's also trying to look at, say, ways to kind of show its belligerence, although, as Israelis themselves would remember, the 2006 invasion of Lebanon was one of the, the attack on Hezbollah was one of the most, was a massive failure. So I don't really think they're going to actually do something on those lines. So hence the discovery inside what is Israeli territory, so to speak. So the idea, so I had an attempt to sort of claim that without, they're not in a position to really do anything, at the same time to claim that we are advancing, we are taking an aggressive position, things like that. So I think that's the context in which this needs to be seen. And what do you call, I suspect that the Lebanese have taken a fairly measured position. They've, of course, internationally counted this, but they've also pointed out that this really does not make sense. And I think for all the Israeli people also, it should be fairly evident that this seems more like a campaign stunt. So thank you Prashant for joining us today. Thank you for watching this clip.