 And to start to see that these are projections, these are ideas in my own mind that I have projected, begins to give that sense of that there is an eye that is distinct and that is whole that is capable of observing those thoughts without believing in them. So is it just intention and willingness to do it that way and to look at it that way as required? To not order it. To be able to say, to free associate with some ideas, for instance, morning, chairs, Beverly, David, microphones, couch, sunshine. Here we have a stream of thoughts, just a stream of thoughts that I verbalized and to get a sense of an observer or something that is able to watch those thoughts without ordering, without, you know, reading meaning into the thoughts. For instance, Beverly sitting in chair, speaking into microphone, looking out at sunshine. All of those have a reference point to Beverly. Beverly in that sense is subject. Beverly, the person with those eyes is able to look at the microphone, to look at the couch, the chairs, out at the sun, and there's the subject-object split as opposed to those all including Beverly being a stream of thoughts in the mind without an association or connection. I mean, these thoughts, there is no association to them. It's impossible in reality to link up false thoughts or to associate false things, false thoughts. That's what the deceived mind attempts to do, it attempts to associate thought forms and constructs meaning based on those thought forms. And in its own sense, that's how the world is made up. It's combinations and links of thought forms. Just as you went from naming Cal's chair or microphone, sunshine, to Beverly sitting in a chair, looking at the microphone, looking out the window at the sunshine. I mean, that was the whole point of that. It's that the individual components are then tried to, you try to put them in some kind of combination or order. You're saying that's what the mind tries to do, take the isolated thought forms and associate them. And then from that to arrive at some kind of meaning or interpretation. And that is wrong, I mean, or that is false. That the mind can attempt to do that but it just continues to sleep. It's like trying to do something that can't be done. Because they are individual isolated thought forms? Is that what you're saying? Well, they have no meaning in and of themselves. But only in combination with other thought forms. Do they seem to take on some meaning? Yeah, there's a thought form. If you think of a chair, I mean, immediately there are all kinds of associations that come into a chair. I mean, you know, in a sense of well, you could say chairs were made for bodies to sit in or different types of chairs or different weights of chairs. Obviously, when you go to a pavilion or a picnic, sometimes you take a lawn chair along instead of your reclining chair because it's much too heavy. There are, with everything in the world, the way that the ego or the deceived mind works is that it has all kinds of meanings and things associated into the thought form. I mean, the thought form is associated with a lot of other thought forms. And you're saying what we're moving toward is letting go of those associations? Yes. All of those associations. Because all of those associations are very relative. And variable. I mean, your associations are different than my associations of the same item. Yes. A child could, you know, could grow up playing little league baseball and just have a fondness for a particular, you know, wood bat that he's played with for years and everything. The same bat could be used in a home, in an abusive situation by a father who goes into tirades and knocks things down with it and puts holes in the wall and smashes the TV or strikes someone with it. You know, that bat just then has different associations for the child. The fond memories of, you know, the smell of the wood maybe or the crack of the bat when he had a home run or so forth versus those other associations which may not be so pleasant. But the whole point is that they're all associations that are being made there. And they're all unreal. And they're all unreal. That's why there's some attempt to let go of any associations whatsoever. It is pretty inconceivable to my mind right now how that would be. If I let go of all my associations with everything. I mean, just the very thought of it seems like it would be immensely chaotic and disorienting and disconcerting, unstabilizing. Yeah, to the deceased mind, once again, there is a chaos perceived within. In other words, two thought systems that have no meaning point. There's a split that is very horrifying and that gets projected out. And the ordering of these thought forms is its attempt to bring some sense of order and sanity back to the mind. But by associating the thought forms and reading meaning in and constructing its own, literally its own version of reality based on these associations, it covers over the light in the mind or the miracle which sees the sameness of everything. I mean, the ordering and the associating of thought forms we're talking about obscures of the sameness of the thought forms. Regardless of what the thought forms are, there is a meaning, there is a purpose that can be given to them that is completely new and completely fresh every instant that has nothing to do with the association of the thought forms. It has nothing to do with the relative meanings that have been read into those. It's an intensity when we come together to discuss, as we're doing, that takes over, that can take over for the self-consciousness of censoring the words or unawareness or distraction of the microphones or so forth. The boys, you know, there's an intention, there's a purpose that can so much take over. It is so fresh and new that the attention of the mind is so focused on that. The mind has become so single-minded that whether the boys are running around the house or whether there's noise or no noise, whatever disappears or just fades away, that the mind is capable of focusing his attention on a different purpose, just as if you were in a crowd and speaking to someone how you could focus your mind, your attention on the person that was speaking across from you and draw it away from the background noise of other people speaking in proximity or the song was playing on the radio or a train that was going by. The good thing to do initially is just to get very, very focused before beginning anything else and just have that intention be all that there is because I have experienced how that is and how powerful it is and how everything else just fades away in the face of a really strong intention and purpose, fades away or comes to meet it whichever way you want to look at it and so that all there is, is that one intention. Everything is there to support it. Nothing can be there to detract from it. Yes. For there to be a conflict, there has to be opposition to something. You can see what freedom there is, what release there is and this idea of transcending this subject, object split. Yet the mind can stay focused on that intention and that one intention and not become distracted and not allow its attention to wander back to the, I'm the subject and this is the object or this is the person I'm speaking to, this is the situation that I seem to be in and so forth. We can stay back into a detachment from all those thought forms, that purpose, that intention then can be held in mind and we could perhaps get into a little bit of this subject-object split by saying that the subject, the small self, me, the personhood in this world is seen to be very distinct and very unique and very important and all of the goals, all of the expectations, all of the thought form associations and meanings, the relative meanings that are read into the world spring from this subject-object split so that if I have career goals, if I have appearance goals, I want to look a certain way. If I have aspirations and ambitions, everything that becomes a goal or something to be striven for in this world springs from that subject-object split in the mind. Is that just another way of speaking of the self-concept? Yes. And you could say that the self-concept then becomes the point of reference for everything that's perceived. Yes. The self-concept, we could say, is a construction, is a making up of these associated thought forms. I perceive myself as a person. Where am I? I'm a person in a living room. I'm a person in a particular city. We could say, for example, Cincinnati in a particular country. We could say, for example, America on this particular planet, Earth, and so on and so forth. The construct also includes reading, meaning.