 Okay, I want to invite anybody who is here who is part of an applicant team to go ahead and do a sound check. If you want to raise your hand within Zoom here, we can go ahead and get that started. Andy, I'm going to send you a prompt right now. Monet, I'm going to send you a prompt. It looks like we have an email of elronchal.com. Do you want to try your sound? Yes, Ed, Ron Kelly with St. Rose Parish. Okay. Sounds good. Thank you. And this is Andy testing video and audio. Sounds good. Thank you. Looks good. And let's see. We have Monet. Can you hear me? I can. Thank you. Okay. Adam, I'm going to go ahead and send a prompt. I'm on. Thanks, Kimberly. Sounds good. Thanks, Adam. Are we ready to go? So this is in my name is Andy Gustafson. I'm acting zoning administrator. And I'd like to call to order the December 16, 2021, regular zoning administrator meeting. Thank you all for attending today. I want to announce up front that we do have. Two agenda items on our three agenda. Three item agenda that those two items are being continued. So I want to let you know that the hillside. Development oil. And our place. Permit is being continued. And also the. The landmark alteration agreement. Or landmark alteration and design review for a fence on college Avenue will be continued. Stay tuned. We'll give dates. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Mr. Zoning administrator correction on item three point two. That has been withdrawn by the applicant. I'm sorry. Item 3.3. I apologize. Okay. So it's not, it's not being continued to a date. It's been completely withdrawn. Correct. Yeah. 3.3. Okay. All right. I kind of jumped ahead there. I just wanted to give that headline for anyone in attendance who might be here for those two items. But let me go back into our agenda. This is a public meeting. It'll be conducted as we would conduct any in-person public meeting. We are doing so remotely to help to reduce the spread of COVID as required by the county's public health officer. This Zoom meeting is being recorded and can be viewed afterwards on YouTube. The link to that site is on the agenda. This meeting will be conducted as, as I said, as any public meeting. The items will be presented in turn by the project planner, and then the applicant will have opportunity to comment, add more information. After that, I'll open it up for public discussion. If any of you wish to do so, and then an action will be taken. Any action made today, whether it's approved, denied, or approved with modified conditions, can be appealed within 10 calendar days of this meeting, which will be December 28th, the 10th day. And if you wish to do so, then please contact a project planner and they'll instruct you how to file your appeal. So with that sort of preliminaries out of the way, we do offer opportunity for the public to comment on any matter that's not on today's agenda, which is subject to the zoning administrator's jurisdiction. If you wish to comment, please press the hand icon, raise your hand, and you'll be recognized and given three minutes. If you're calling it, I don't see any callers. If you do call in, press star nine on your phone, be recognized. Is there anyone who wishes to make a public comment on this at this point? Seeing none, let's then move on to our three scheduled items. So as I mentioned at the start, items 3.1 and 3.3 are not going to be heard today, but I want to have the project planner for 3.1, not present the project, but confirm that that has been, as I understand it, requested for a public hearing. Manet Shikali is the project planner. Manet, can you give us an update? Sure, correct, and good morning, Mr. Gustavsson. So yesterday we received an email requesting for a public hearing on this item. We have contacted the applicant and let the applicant know that we will not present the project today, and I'm waiting to hear back from the applicant when they will be ready to schedule the items. So either it will be in January or February for this item to be prepared and scheduled for the zoning atmosphere meeting, and we will send another notice, and an on-site sign will be posted also, and notice will be mailed to Perce Democrat. So whenever we hear from the applicant, when they are ready to move forward, we will again prepare all the noticing and schedule it. Excellent, thank you. So we will rely on that separate notice to inform the neighbors when it will be brought forward next year, 2022. All right, so I'm going to jump ahead to the item 3.3, and Adam, you said at the start that that landmark alteration and design review for 439 College Avenue, that proposal has been withdrawn by the applicant, correct? Correct. Okay, so that leaves us with item 3.2, and Adam, you are the project planner on this one. It is a landmark alteration permit for 44547 and 549 B Street, the fence on the property. Can you give your report recommendation? Yes, sir. Give me one second, and then if you could just confirm you see the presentation before you. I can, thank you. All right, I wanted to start off by saying to you, Andy, zoning administrator, it's been a pleasure presenting projects through the years to you, and I really do appreciate it and wish you the best in your retirement. So with that, you're welcome. I mean it. It doesn't mean I can't ask the tough questions. Oh yeah, you know, you typically do, so that's all right. So in short, not everything will be missed, but most things. Anyway, okay, let's get started. This is for a new black metal fence. It's a minor landmark alteration permit, file number LMA 21-017. The address is quite a few here. 547 and 549 B Street and 320-322-340-348-398 10th Street, and I am the project planner for this. This is a new black metal fence with gates consisting of one lower and two upper horizontal rails. So these are the images below that show what that design would look like. This is within the St. Rose Preservation District, and this is at an existing church site within that preservation district. So because of its location within the St. Rose Preservation District, it does require a minor landmark alteration permit. So here's an aerial view of the St. Rose Catholic Church. You can see here it's the project site. So it's quite a few buildings along 10th and B Street and the fence spans along those addresses, so that's why it's quite a few there. So this is just a neighborhood. I'm sorry, it just lists the surrounding type of uses on the site layered over this aerial. So here's a site plan for it. The red dashed line shows the proposed fence location with the little doors swinging inward would be what that is for the gates. Sorry, those would be the gates. There's a little corner, so it adds a fence here, and it goes along the site. It would connect to an existing chain link fence. So here's some of the existing chain link fence along 9th Street. Here's a view of the current site along B Street. This is kind of in the middle there, and this is the 10th Street and B Street corner looking into the site, and here's an example of the similar fencing around the area. So just to kind of go over this one just a little bit more, the fence design was analyzed under the requirements of a landmark alteration permit, and the findings show that it's a very similar material to the type of fencing that's been used for quite a while. It doesn't, it's set back from the street, from the back of sidewalk enough to not kind of intrude on the public right of way. The reason why it's not a chain link fence is because chain link fences are easily scalable, and for those reasons, staff is recommending approval for the minor landmark alteration permit. I do want to point out that there was some public correspondence received for this project. One is included in the agenda packet. The other was sent in via email but not entered in time, and I'll read that verbatim now. The Catholic Church created this problem in the neighborhood by having homeless services and attracting homelessness and indigent people. Should they be allowed to have a wrought iron, wrought iron can security fence protect them from what they have created? Should we all get one and charge them for it? This is unbelievable. No, they shouldn't get a security fence. They should have to suffer and struggle to keep the trash and people and human feces and urine off their property just like the rest of us. So as you can see that public correspondence was not in favor of the proposed project. Another discussion was had prior to the meeting with a member of the public, a neighbor, wanting to expand a bit of the portion of that of the fence to cover a section that is what he identified as a considerable nuisance to the property by not having it fenced. And with that, that concludes my presentation. Again, my name is Adam Ross. Here's my contact information and I'm here to answer any questions you may have. This additional fence is a six-foot fence around its lane? Yes, I apologize. It is six-foot. Okay, I don't at this time. The applicant is now invited to comment at more information. If you wish to do so, please raise your hand and you'll be recognized. I'm not sure if I see the applicant here. It'd be someone from Roman. I'm sorry, I'm getting the name confused as I'm trying to think about it, but from the congregation from the St. Rose Catholic Church. I have somebody, I have somebody, we did a sound check at the beginning. I can't remember what he said his name was, but his email is ELRONCH and he's got his, he's raised his hand. Great. You can go ahead. You don't need a prompt. Okay. Now this is Ed Ron Kelly. I'm a parishioner at St. Rose and I've been working with a pastor in trying to establish a proper location for the fence so that we can provide some safety to the property in the campus. There are many nights when the homeless will come into a side entrance and sleep and defecate behind the bushes, also up into the baptistry, that circular area in the center of the property where they will spend the night and defecate just anywhere in the property. I had the opportunity to talk to Mr. Greg Parker who is one of the residents in the area and he was most supportive in the fence and in fact he talked about himself going around the neighborhood various nights rousing out or calling the police to rouse out homeless or vagrants around not only the church property, but his property in the neighborhood and was very much supportive of installing the fence. Thank you for your comments explanation. Is there any other person or parties from the representing the church that wishes to make a comment at this point? If not, I see Katie Elmore. Are you part of the applicant team or representing the church? If we can recognize Katie. Katie, you should have a comment. Yes, there you go. Yeah. Hi. I don't really have any additional comments. I am from Tierney Figurito Architects and we have been working with Edron Kelly and St. Rose Church on this project and it would be very helpful to their work to have this fence and I think Ed has already explained the situation much better than I could. Thank you. Thank you. All right. So let's open this discussion up to the public. Any member and attendants who wishes to comment from the public, please raise your hand and you'll be recognized. Katie, if you could lower your hand at this point. Thank you. Okay. We had two hands. Oh wait, we've got hands kind of going up and going down. It looks like we have Denise Hill. I'm going to go ahead and send you a prompt. Hi everybody. Can you hear me? Yes. Yes. Hi. Good morning. Hey, so I'm a resident of the St. Rose neighborhood. I actually our house is right across from the church parking lot and we fully support this. We're thrilled that it's happening. We've had a lot of challenges in this neighborhood with encampments and we're hoping that this is one more tool in the toolkit to hopefully encourage people to take services rather than camp in the neighborhood. I'm also thrilled that it's the style it is because that does mesh really nicely with our historic district rather than a chain link fence. Would love it if the chain link fence around the parking lot could be replaced, but I know this is a pretty pricey item. One more thing about in just addition, if there's any way that the church would consider closing the parking lot gates like they used to their automatic gates, they used to close and now we have a lot of sideshow behavior in the parking lot late at night and so that would be something I just want to mention. Well, we've got someone here from the parish who could maybe consider reactivating those automatic gates at night, but really the bottom line is that we we're thrilled this is happening. We've been in contact with the church offices. They've been, you know, assuring us that this is what was going to happen in their goal and we're glad they're there and you know it's a it's I think it could be nothing but a plus for the neighborhood. There is that small area that was talked about expanding the fence from the east side steps over to the entrance to the church property on B Street and it really probably should be closed off because that is another area that unless the landscaping changes is conducive to people camping and other things there. So anyway, very supportive. Thank you for your time and thank you to the church for moving forward with this project. Thank you very much. We have another person, Mr. Greg Parker. Mr. Parker, please recognize. You hear me? Yes. Okay. Greg Parker, I live about a block away from the church on B Street and I do go down there pretty much every night to check three buildings down there that have no trespass orders to try to keep people off the properties and I've talked to Ed, Ron Kelly and Father Dennis and Adam Ross. I'm the one that has been bringing up the little spot from if you go from the corner of B and 10th Street it's between the fairway south on that map you have. I don't know how to if you can pull that up I could describe it to you but there's a section there's a little triangular section south on B Street from that from the very corner. They've got the little fence that's closing off some steps. Thank you, Adam. See the little red thing right up at the corner? It'd be on the yeah between there right there there you got it. That is a place where it's like the latrine for these guys and there's big bushes in there they camp back there and if you close off everything else that's just going to be a magnet for them. So I'm asking that you extend the fence down on that section number one and then in addition to what Denise said there's also access to the property from 7th Street there's a little well it's a short chain like fence between the the old school and a private property and there's a gate there that it is locked but they've cut open the chain like fence so the homeless can get in back there it would be Washington it's going to be you're down you're talking about down there um so I'm just trying to follow your your direction where it is okay you're talking about okay you see the the hashed out original St. Rose uh yeah go to the right of that and right up that alley there's a little alleyway going right back into the church parking lot if you go north or if you go straight up there that's fences up there that's a private house if you go between that house it's like a little yeah there's a little gap now you're over here back where you were go straight up yeah now come back down right keep coming down keep coming down keep coming in right there there's a fence there's a little fence and a gate there that fence is ripped open and so if you're going to close the property off close the property off you know close those two gates to the parking lot and close these off otherwise they just come in the back way then it's like you know a gated community forum and that's about it I appreciate it I'd love to see that closed off I've talked to them and I everybody seemed to be in agreement that it'd be a good idea so I'm kind of surprised it wasn't mentioned uh by ed but uh I think that's necessary thank you thank you mr parker um is there anyone else in attendance who wishes to comment if so please raise your hand I'm trying to look up my list uh Thomas drain hello can you hear me yes hi I'm actually Thomas John's spouse I'm using his computer but I'm at uh 615 B street I'm just within visual side of the corner of 10th street and B street where there's a it's like a stoop it's a next uh where you know this has been a chronic uh I call it the settlement because there's there has been constant homeless uh men camping out there for oh two two years perhaps a little more so basically I'm I hate to see any property needing to be closed in I like the openness of the the saint rose uh uh entrance way to the back to you know the whole visual but I I don't see any other solution uh other than fencing in the property and so I I just wanted to give my voice of support for the um the parishes project of fencing in as it's presented with the addition of what what uh Greg has mentioned about the other possible entrance entrances into the property so thank you that's that's my just my my statement thank you very much thank you very much mr drain um all right anyone else who hasn't commented I don't see anybody else on the list here um so I'm going to close the public hearing and uh I did have a a question um regarding this suggested uh fencing enclosure of that open corner on B street uh is that something that the applicant is considering or wishes to do that would that be linking all the way across that frontage as Adam has just kind of indicated there so that's a question to to um the applicant is that something you're willing to consider doing and uh you're gonna recognize Katie yeah so I know that this was discussed and I um I I had understood that it was within I mean looking at the map it doesn't look like it's in the vision triangle for those streets um but there was some concern about adding additional fencing in that area however um it would uh Ron Ed or if you're still there it would be great to hear your response on this particular item yeah Katie I'm here okay yes yeah uh actually after talking to Greg uh I was what really wasn't aware of what was happening behind the bushes and my thought was that we would run the fence from that stair little portico on the corner back along B street to the next exposed corner but do it behind the bushes so that you don't see so much of the fence the landscaping stays pretty much the same but you're fenced off that area so people can't get back behind the bushes and also if I might add to I think uh Denise's comment the lady who lived across the street intensity uh it is our intent to repair those channeling gates so that they are motorized and remote control great um what okay so um it sounds like there's there could be a solution to extend that fencing along the B street frontage to um to deny uh places where people might have access and conduct and and desirable activities um all right can I have a question there's a lot of line work internal to the property fencing is that exclusion fencing also I don't quite understand what that is how does that relate to excluding access to the property can I comment yeah yeah go ahead okay the the continuous red line you know it's a dark and red line that's an existing fence that separates um the back of the rectory from the church proper or the the church proper uh that's been there from the time the new the new wing which is forgotten how many years old it is but it's been there from the very beginning and of course the curly queue lines from there to the right uh that's all um landscaping vegetation they're they're tall um bushes that separate access and vision and that's primarily what the fence and that landscaping was put in for is to limit vision from the church to the back of the rectory so that I'll call it internal fencing it's not um the perimeter security fence but rather establishing an internal separation between the rectory and the church right except for the dotted line which is to the left of that yes that will be part of security keep going to let that yeah that yeah that dotted line that's new or would be new and it's for security purposes uh to the left of that dotted line there is a fence now that denies entrance into the back of the old convent yeah right there so that's an existing fence and then there's an existing chain link fence that runs from there to 10th street yes okay all right um I think I understand that better thank you for providing the explanation um so uh I read through uh the the resolution uh with the findings that are associated with the landmark alteration uh in this and I I do agree with the conclusion that this metal fence is of a of a type and a style that's similar to the architectural wrought iron features on on on the existing buildings and in that regard it does complement and also the the architectural historical character of the of the development on the property nor would the location of this fencing its placement on the property its height um to track or diminish the historic value of the um existing development on the property further I think it's it's um being placed well behind the sidewalk on B street as well as 10th street will help to avoid what often is a problem with security fencing along front tradition where it really looms and and and deprives uh kind of that open feeling or space along the sidewalk for pedestrian so I commend the the placement of the um the fencing that's proposed um I do think uh in this instance it would be appropriate to allow for the continuation of the fence alignment along B street to the corner to remedy that area inside corner that's been discussed and I would um say that it would be an appropriate revision to the resolution that would allow the project planner to approve a modification of this proposed uh fence to extend using the same type of fence material the fencing through that corner um same height same set back from the street as appeared where it would be accomplished or could be accomplished or that that would work well I think so um and that's really up to the project applicant to do so um so I just want to provide that flexibility for for the fencing to be extended to the corner uh along B street so yeah I do have a little bit of language to kind of identify that okay that I could read so the fence shall be allowed to extend along the eastern side of the saint rose parish offices building outside of the vision triangle is there anything else yeah something along those lines yeah completion of approval yeah I don't think a vision triangle is a concern here me either but I just wanted to clarify yeah yeah if it if the existing fence is extended north to that exterior corner and then to that already illustrated enclosed corner um and holds that set back that will not substantially alter that the visual character of the proposed fencing nor would it impact the historic character of that development complex so so let's let's allow for that flexibility if they choose to do so then Adam you or another planner will be able to approve it um and then um you know just in terms of what I've heard uh if if the intent is to exclude people uh to exclude trespass on the property I would really encourage the church to take a look at the existing perimeter fencing and close any gaps and maintain that it sounds like you will but I I think it's worth it to underscore here that if there's gaps holes like that out there at the outside of night street curb go ahead and do that so with the resolution with modified conditions as we just discussed um I will approve this landmark alteration permit and um and thank uh the parish for addressing this issue and uh I think a gracious and well-designed way unfortunate condition or circumstance you're having to deal with but I think the resolution is a good one thank you um thank you so uh that concludes the uh zoning administrator meeting of December 16th 2021 this is the last meeting of the year thank you very much for participating and have a great day and a holiday end of the year bye bye