 And now, as I said in the intro, I'm joined by an expert panel, the one and only John Gilday, former championship winner in Donegal-Stalwart, and Gary McDade, former championship winner for Glenn Swilly. Lads, thanks for joining us, John. You're looking good there. I can just put you into that team photo. You wouldn't have looked amiss. You're the man, of course, who kicked it all off in 2005. Where does this title rank in all those glorious championship victories? Thanks, Brynn. I think I was just saying to Gary before we kicked in. Every victory from a Neve Connell point of view is as important as the last victory. And they put as much effort into the next one as they did the one before that. And they celebrated in exactly the same way. And I think the last couple have been surrounded with a lot of adversity in the sense that there was the battles against Ghidor over three matches. And then obviously this one with the COVID, and then going to extra time and going to penalties and the old rivalry with Clacar. So from the club's perspective and from the lads' perspective, it's a very, very sweet win. Obviously, the other side of the equation is a very difficult one for Clacar to deal with, you know, losing on penalties. Very unique, as you imagine. And when people say penalties are good, penalties are bad. And it's a very simple split down the middle. If you won, penalties are great. If you lose, losing by penalties is absolutely terrible. And there is the dichotomy that exists, but not very, very happy and very proud of Neve Connell and what they've done over the last number of years. And this one ranks up here is as sweet as an elm. Yeah, listen, you're right. I suppose from a neutral perspective, the penalties thing, I think even in a soccer match, penalties is tough because a lot of players won't be used to hitting them. And you look at GA, who is striking the ball off the ground anymore. It's a very difficult position. For me, it's a bit alien to the game. It's a bit like the mark that's in there. I don't think it's part of the game. I still agree with the penalty in terms of if a guy's pulled down with a goal chance, you have to have that opportunity to get the three-pointer. But finishing games on penalties is tough. And Gary, myself and yourself, we're on the gantry there watching. You went for Neve Connell, I went for Kukar, so I have to tip my cap to you right in the end. I listen, I probably tip them all year. And you know, I'd be interested now, Brynne, going forward. I think the likes is in Unen's and Guidore, in particular, lower two of the big four will take a lot of heart from the game on Saturday night. And there's very much, I look at both teams and think both of them are very beatable. Ourselves, including myself, we had topped up Neve Connell. I just thought they were a machine in the league. And I don't know, it was nearly a safety at first at all cost for both teams on Saturday night. And it's a pity, really, because I know both teams can play really good football. Like, you know, Neve Connell, when they go out against teams, who they know that they can beat, they don't play as rigid and as structured as they did on Saturday night. And the same for, same for Kilkar, like Kilkar must have serious regrets. You know, it's Monday morning now, like, you know, we're going into almost 48 hours, 36, 48 hours after the game. They had huge opportunities. And the modern game, Brynne 1v1, I kept saying to use upstairs, like when we were in the gantry, like they didn't take the opportunities next time in 1v1s, they had 1v1s there numerous occasions, numerous opportunities. What did they do? They went sideways with the ball or went back with the ball. So they did, to me, like, that's just going to be eat them, eat them for so, so long. So it is, because county finals are so hard to get to. So they are, when you get there, you have to maximize it. You can't play with fair and trepidation. Like, and both teams had that fair and trepidation within them. And it was almost a fair illusion, as opposed to go and grab in the game by the scruff of the net, like, you know, it's like, if you want to flip it around to the other side, suppose that, you know, Nick Connell probably had the high ball advantage in the full forward line, they got the two goals of it, but they didn't use it half enough. Half their scores, really. You think about it, and you're on a bit, low scoring games, two high balls and that's the count for half your scores, which was, which was what was their, was the major deciders in terms of Nick Connell, kind of, in many ways, kind of, I suppose Nick Connell for me, set the tactics because they are, they play that rigid defense. So you got to murder them. That's what's saying about John McNulty. The reason, unless we said it before, yeah, you seen, I had typed the draw there with the, with old party power. Nobody seems to want to one these games. And if the team, I don't mean it, I mean, if a team goes on the elite, they automatically sit back and it's always going to come out. When we said it's how many times, guys, it's going to be a point either way, if it's a victory and it ended up not being that way, going, going right to penalties. But I just thought for John McNulty, if they murdered Nick Connell, right, and both teams sat, when you break forward in, when you have your own McEw's, McLean's, Brian McEw's, McBurdy's, it just looked like if there was a team going to punch maybe that extra few holes, it should have been Calcare. But I just think McBurdy, McBurdy obviously really stepped up to the plate, you know, as this Kieran Thompson on the opposite side, there's just something about Nick Connell, John, the team and the squad, you know, it's never about a player, even though Thompson stood up the way that he's such a leader for them, you couldn't earmark him out. But it just seems like the whole team, there's no one like them in terms of the way the system that they play and how they just stick, stick to it, stick to it, that would make them so hard to beat. You know, if you're going to beat them, it's going to be a battle, it's going to come down to the inches and they're prepared to go there every time. Yeah, and I think, you know, that becomes a reoccurring theme, you know, when you start getting the mentality, as you well know, and you can go back to our playing days when you came across our masses world, and then there's nearly this aura around them that if you're in a dogfight with them, nine out of 10 times, their dogs are going to bark louder and get out the far side. And they've done that and the mentality and they've created this kind of siege mentality in there, that they know that when they go in and they put their hand into the very middle of the fair, everyone wants to do exactly the same thing. And that's not just the 15 lads that are playing, that attitude permanates throughout the club and it's beneath us within the club. And I think it's very much driven from the 2005 lads at core and then Ciaran Thompson's bringing forward. We're looking like the Leo and Nancy Thompson and Owen Wade and Marty Boyle and guys like that. And if you were going to war with anybody in any club, those lads you'd want in your corner because they never stop running, they never ever give up, they're never beat. And then all the younger fellas coming through are coming through with that attitude as well. And they've seen Neve Connell one games at the shooting of one. Now, the last number of years have changed the, I suppose the outlook of the club in a lot of ways. If you look, say four years back, Neve Connell had lost more finals than they'd actually won. And, you know, you could have gone into a situation where you were the team that lost more finals, but that all changed. And I think that new blood coming through to supplement the lads that were already like Ciaran Thompson is probably one of the most exceptional footballers ever to come through the club. And personally speaking, I think he's probably underachieving at county level, because I think he's been played in the wrong position. But he, you know, on big games, he always performs and the rest of the team are all exceptional footballers in their own right. And I suppose in a deaf bygone era, you would see much more football from those lads, but now it's all about system structures, process. And if you look at the game in general, okay, majority really stood out. Ciaran really stood out. But I think what happened then was the big marquee players, and I said this last week, Tosheen, the marquee players, and the really, really outstanding footballers were on the on the Kylkar side, the McCuse and McBrady, those guys, they reclassified as the marquee players within the county right now. And I feel that New Connell got their matchups right. I think the Dorities, Jack, McKelvie, these boys, they shut down the other threats that Kylkar had. And then it became a, it became a dogfight. And then a dogfight. The pressure on the kick out, John, which was, which was massive too. Huge, huge. Because Kevin was, you know, you know, they're struggling to get balls out there. And that panic kind of sets on. It's a dangerous thing, particularly just after the goal, Gary, and you were talking about, there was a couple of big instances there. But John, just before we get to that, the point about Thompson there, where do you think he should play? Because I do get that. And I just wonder sometimes, if you look at Patrick McBrady, for example, when he was outside of McFadden and Murphy, he was never going to be the Patrick McBrady that we've seen. You know, he needed to be the main man like he was for Kylkar. Where would you see Thompson play in there? Where do you think his best position is? Well, Thompson's best position is the middle of park. Like, Bar, you know, because, and speaking from experience, you know, wing half forward, you're going to get more attention. There's a lot of tracking back. You know, a lot of times you're facing the wrong way, you're having to turn. You know, and I see Thompson, like you look at how effective laying in is, breaking on the ball, coming through into space, getting the yard, swinging the boot, that it can do exactly the same thing, maybe to a higher degree on the left hand side. He's a phenomenal fetch of a ball. He works tremendously hard, and I think he would get a little bit more latitude and freedom from that middle of the park roll that would allow him to utilise the skill set that he has that we're not really seeing at the wing half forward position. Interesting, interesting. Gary, just to the penalty incident there. What did you make of it? A couple of Kylkar people were questioning it. You know, goals was going to be huge in the game. And the two goals, I suppose, meant that Kylkar were often chasing the game. So when they had the purple patch, they only drew level. So they were leaving it open that they could never get on that path for me where they were in charge of the game. What did you make of that first incident? Listen, I haven't seen a replay of it, but my gut right away was that it was a penalty. And that high ball got in like, you know, I remember us talking about the two boys on site. Charlie and Keir had six inches on the Kylkar full back line. So they had, and to me, the delivery was really poor in the first half. It was too central. They got a better in the second half. It was more diagonal. But like, first instinct was that it was a penalty. You know, and as I said, you know, it's a huge bow to their string, maybe that they didn't have when a couple of years ago before the Guido game that they didn't have. Maybe those big men now they have that. And like, they just have a lot of strengths we have across the putchip. And interestingly, one quiz question for you, Brent. Keir and Thompson became the first player in Donegal to one back to back county titles as captain since who? You know the answer? Do you know who's not happy with that? Answer Harden. If you're listening in there, Harden. We're Harden won the championship and then I was captain the next year. He's forever given up about it. Brent DaVenny was the answer I heard. He was the last man to captain back to back to back team. So he was, but I thought Keir Thompson, you know, just when John was on in there, he won the Sheamus McGeady last year. You know, we'll probably go on to one of the game. Brent, God rest sheamus. He'd been proud of that performance he had last night and like last year, like the trilogy of Guido as well to back that up. Two years in a row. It's absolutely massive and probably we're not maximising him in Donegal. So we're not, maybe he's out of position, but I just thought, I think, I forgot to mention in Saturday night, I don't, I don't want to get into it. So I thought Paddy McBurdy gave his best ever performance in a kill car shirt. You know, I've watched a lot of kill car over the years and he's done really well and he's carried them. But I thought Saturday night, he reminded me of Murphy and his pump. And then times we would have won the lock of championships. Murphy would have just grabbed the game, the scruff of the neck and he had that bloodshot eyes and just firing them. And you could see that in Patrick. He was wanting the ball time after time. And I was on about earlier 1v1s. He went at them. I think Glenty's underestimated Patrick probably coming into the game. He probably thought that A.J. would manage him quite well. And Leo seemed to be marking that side and coming in as the second man. Didn't matter, Brent. He just, he went through the two of them. So he did. And sometimes there were three there. He went through the three of them. My heart really went out to him because he left everything he could on the pitch. There was no one else he could do to get kill car over the line. So he must be really sick this morning. Yeah, yeah. And that's not dropped on me messages last night. Do you know what, Jono, just Gary, you were mentioning about the, at half time, we've probably seen the best to go carrying that 10 minutes towards the end of the first half. And that, I suppose, was in my mind that I thought they might edge the game in terms of the pace coming off the shoulder. They were getting through the knee called the fence. They were coming through the middle, kicking scores. And just me didn't see the best around the queue, but that point just where I have time. That was right in the queue. I thought I'd see three or four moments from him in that game. You know, I think he's probably just so much football under the belt now and here the championships couple of weeks away again. But at that point, and you mentioned there, Gary, that the, the, the Nicole management stood outside for a long time before they were done to the lads. And John, that second half then, you know, Neve Connell just bossed the second half and really put Calcare under their, under their shell and owned the game. And I was very surprised. I think if you're looking for Calcare perspective, for example, if you look to, to the one and the losing that game, there's a few points. But firstly, I think the start of that second half, after finishing the first half so well, what they were doing well, they completely stopped doing. Now, if you're going to play the system that they played at the start of that second half, that's what Neve Connell do. They sit and they work the ball up the pitch, whereas Calcare were coming at pace at the end of the first half and they stopped doing it. Now, I said to you a couple of times, Gary, they were on the attack and they turn around and kick the ball back. You've got to go for it. You know, if you're going to want to title, you've got to go for it. But many ways, John, am I taking away something from Neve Connell and that the day come on at half time and, and right the wrongs of that final 10 minutes and say, we're going to change system here. We're going to put a press on Calcare and we're going to keep them in. Yeah. I think it's a combination of both. I think after the goal, you know, the game was kind of slipping away from Calcare. Neve Connell had a couple of chances to go four or five up. And then it was, you know, everybody went out a little bit like the male situation. Nearly the game was slipping away from you. You just have to go for it at that stage because, you know, as we've seen from 2017 losing by a point or losing by 10 points, it doesn't really make any difference at the end of the day. And Calcare won't want to do that. So they went at it. The other thing is, I do think that what happened, Neve Connell went out and went, okay, this is plan A, plan B. This is what happens when Calcare do ABC and D and Martin is so methodical, a bit like Gary as well, with Glenn Swally. They were fit to reset, restructure and then set it up again and just go, okay, where are we making mistakes here and just lock it down. The other thing I think a lot of this goes back to coaching and it's, it's permeating through the game in general. And Gary pointed out early on that, you know, there was multiple opportunities for Calcare to take men on one-on-one. But the game has got to the point right where it's process driven. You're nearly told not to take men off one-on-one because if you turn over the ball, you're caught on the other way around. And if you're coached like that, and that's the ethos that you have in your team, it's very hard then on a one-on-one situation to break rank in your own head because that's not the way you've been playing for the last five, seven years. So back in the day when you were playing, your first instinct was to take a man on. No matter what the situation, you know, 80 was the same, all those lads were the same, whereas that has changed to the point now where it's about retention, holding the ball. And that's why Calcare got so nervous on the kick outside of the equation because every time you give the ball away, okay, Dave Connell will take it, they'll take three, four minutes out of it, they'll move it around, they'll move it around, they'll work an angle score. And that kills the game, kills, kills you as on the opposition side. So I agree that when you go to a county final, you have to go for it. But, you know, most men outside of, you know, the Thompson's, the McBrady's, the McQ's, which, you know, are allowed basically to do that at county level. And if you even look at county football, everybody else is shot from the ball from A to B to C to D, but nobody wants to take responsibility, take it on. And, you know, that's the one on the losing the game. And, you know, you ask yourself, why is that? But again, possession is so important right now for teams that they don't want to run the risk that they'll take the ball into contact and lose it. Yeah, good. And just with your word, we've said it half time, he was going to help out McBrady and he was going to help out Thompson. Kevin McGeregan, we were expecting him to chip on. That was massive, John. Have you been knowing them? Well, if you look at a county final a couple of years ago, Aaron Thompson kicked the one and score from corner back, you know? You know, sometimes it takes a wee bit of, you know, something different to do it. And unless and he took it on his shoulders and he did a young player, you wouldn't anticipate it to come from him. But in a game like that, anybody that can chip on at that point in time is going to be worth its weight in gold in a low scoring game. So now it was an inspirational score. And, you know, I remember a long time ago, Mark Crossen kicking a point from corner back. And when things like that happen, you kind of think, yeah, probably going to be our day. It might be our day. John just touched on it there. And I think it's a big thing in these games that even though the games are low scoring and there's a lot of possession, the tension is massive because, you know, if a side gets ace, just one score, you know then that there's going to be a wall put up, possession, if possession is turned over, you might get it back for a good few minutes. I think that creates a lot of lot of tension and even watching on as a neutral. I can only imagine what it was like for John and the bottom fans and the Kylkar fans because at any one mistake or any one score could be the winner. And you think the county football now, something gets a point or two points and there's five minutes to go. No big deal. You know, there's going to be ample opportunities to get scores. This isn't the case in these games. And I think, you know, a bit like the Trility last year, even though they're low scoring, the tension in them is massive. Yeah, listen and Kylkar, you know, they played Glentys at their game. To me, Glentys controlled the game and they want, they put the game to the place where they want it to be. And to me, you can't play. And they've gone a lot that they're too good at it. And you mentioned there, the trilogy, they proved that last year, they grinded that out after three games, they've shown time after time in the runs and allsters, well, they were able to won tight, tight games. So Kylkar probably, you know, played them at their own game. They didn't use, have I asked you or John a question now, who's the best running team in the county? Both of you would say Kylkar. They didn't use the running game so they didn't, they didn't maximise it. It was underwhelming. So it was decision making, just wasn't there, wasn't it at the highest that night. A lot of responsibility was left to Patrick. I mean, you look at the Kylkar six league games, Bryn, I remember picking up the paper and I saw them once against Glentys, picking up the paper or reading online. So after games, and you'd see different players step up four, five, six, seven. I remember one day there was a Kylkar player had 10 points in a league game. None of them stepped up on the scoreboard. Very few of them the last night. So they did. Ryan and Mark had two unbelievable scores. So they had Ryan at one of his left foot. Mark had one member, Bryn, right in front of us, just down below the gantry. It was a tight, tight angle. You know, like, I know it didn't go their way in the penalty shootout, but, you know, you can't blame them for, you know, they contributed on the scoreboard when it was needed as well. But maybe the order players didn't really step up when they needed. They didn't ask the hard questions off, Neil Connell. Like, they kept me getting it. I thought it was brilliant. So it was 1-1 from, they always talk about county finals, you know, there'll be a non-sung hero come up and he hit the 1-1 from cornerback. And it was just thinking, well, you're on about the two high balls, the goal. If you remember, Bryn and Charlie McGinnis's point was a high ball that he fasted over, had dropped in and just fasted over the bar. So that's actually 2-1 off the high ball that came in. And to me, the game wasn't really played out of manic intensity. It was pedestrian. You know, no team brought any wild aggression, you know, to go and get the ball back hard. It was more standoffish and try and draw them in and suck them in and try and lure them into a mistake more so as opposed to manic aggression, trying to get the ball back. But listen, there's no team. I was just saying, remember we were saying about it in the game, this was really a first round championship game. I'm just looking to the dominance of McBurdy and of Thompson. You know, they were championship ready. They've obviously been in it, they've been also championships. So the county players certainly had a step up in terms of that intensity of game. So we didn't want to be too overcritical of the players because, you know, if you're seeing a first round championship game, you'd say, right, that's okay. You're going to get on a bit of a run, build up ahead of steam. So it was a tough game, I suppose, for both teams to be maybe at their best. That's why systems maybe were king here. But just on that point, in Mark McHugh's point, that was a black card as well. Was that not the moment for Calcare to kind of seize that game? A man up, McHugh hits that inspirational score. Should that have been the turning point for Calcare to kick on? Yeah, like it was his own way, wasn't it? But the black card at the time, Mark McHugh. And he was marking Ryan, you know? And he was doing a good job on Ryan. And we were talking there off the air. One's been around since 2005. So he has like, and then they changed that. They put Owen, young Owen Daugherty, a player who admire massively, came on in and marked Ryan after that. But you're 100%, right? 14v15. I always say that now in football. If you watch undercounty games, when the 15 have it, you'll see them punish the opposition on the scoreboard. It's almost gone like rugby, when the yellow card happens in rugby, when they're down to 14, they really go at them to make a count on the scoreboard. Calcare didn't make a count on the scoreboard. At that stage, Neap Connell had probably then, I talked about before, again, the stronger bench. I mean, the finish with all the old heads on, so that everyone of them that came on was nearly part of the 2005 setups where they were. I actually counted, I was counting this morning, they called me nine subs. Calcare made seven through between extra time and normal time. And there were some players that came back on and off as well. And Calcare just didn't probably have that strength and depth. Them more so, they were taking lads off that they brought back on and they brought off when they brought on two of their old stalwarts, Higgardy and McShane as well. So they did. So they just didn't maybe have the strength and depth again. Can we put that wide count down to, as I say, early, it's still kind of earliest in the season or, you know, there was quite a high wide count versus the scores that were kicked, you know? Yeah, I think I made it six. Now, if I could, it might be entirely accurate because you might miss the odd one. Jordan, I think I made it 16, Neap Connell, nine, Calcare, like 16 as man. I know it's over extra time as well, but that's far too many. And as you said, I definitely would agree, you know, it was like a first round game. You didn't really know where players were at. Are the Glentix players seem to cope with it a bit better? Braden, Calcare players, Cairn McGillian went off with cramp, huge loss. Braden, massive, was having a brilliant game. Probably had Braden remember, we're talking about the point of the game until Cairn Thompson's point in extra time. Andy McLean seemed to go off with a senior and a counter player. Grant is out injured this year. He went off with cramp. I know he came back on the game as well. Like, they're two of Calcare's top four or five players, so they aren't to lose them like they're ever placed. But I would have nearly, like I said to Cairn and Donald at the time, I don't really pushed Cairn McGillian's side. I wanted to take him off. I know he was cramping up, but he's too big a player for Calcare. Granted, he couldn't cover the acreage out in midfield, but put him inside. Right, because a few of the Calcare subs, come on, we're a bit light, you're right. He just needed maybe a bit of a ball winner. Maybe we're chatting too much about Calcare because John has left us. He's away on. That's the magic of modern technology. We better get this broadband sorted for him. He's not living too far from me, I wonder what's happened up there. It might be like the Sticks and Glenties, or it might be like Party of Britain. Maybe it is, maybe it is, maybe it is. Listen, Gary, that's it anyway. Listen, hats off to Neil Connell. Finally, we got this 2020 final right up, I suppose in terms of it being late 11 months after it should have been decided on penalties. I mean, a lot of stuff on there. Listen, looking forward to the championship ahead. Gary, you were up at the oyster of minor finals just at Friday night there. The three teams, the Donegal teams, the minors, 20s and seniors, all in the preliminary rounds. The other two sides fell at the semi-finals. Donegal got over Armagh in a tight game with Tauron, we're blazing the trail. Gary, we were going to always be up against it, but we hung on about the 50th minute before Tauron got them a couple of goals and pulled away. Yeah, you know, in fairness to the lads, it was the toughest game that our minors came up against, so they did, and they gave it everything on the night, and they just came up short against the better team. I mean, me and Oshin were in commentary, so we were, you know, Tauron had probably the better players. I mean, you could see a lot of those, Tauron had a lot of stars, Bren, where we were more about the collective, so we were, and mistakes. There was a lot of mistakes, Bren, as in on-forced turnovers, on-forced errors, giving the ball to Tauron, giving it, certainly, when the bigger pressure came on with far too many of those, and that's where the two goals came from as well, and the two goals, as you said in Saturday night, goals won games, so they do, and they definitely proved a turning point in that game, and physically, Tauron were massive, Bren, so they were so, so physical, and I was talking a lot of Doney Gall people in the game on Saturday night, and you know, we're saying how often we're going to talk about this now, about this physicality, and our underage teams, and us not being there with the likes of Tauron, we need to start dealing with it, you know. People were talking about the program cover, so there were big Rory McHughes, like he was a giant, so he was the midfielder for Tauron, so he was, and then the week before, there's a snippet in one of the local papers of your man, the Armagh, midfielder, on Burnett against one of the Doney Gall Fells, and again, another giant, but just to put people's mind at rest, I know there's massive work going on, and those lads are probably a wee bit late, since the likes of Aaron Kiles and Carly C. Cuman, you know, they're only in the job, even in the last year or two, so it probably happened too late for that current minor group, I think, maybe our current under 14 slash 15s, I think you'll see the result of that work when they get to under 17. They're going to be in the gym flat out, flat out. Listen, we're nearly out of time there, John, thanks for rejoining us, I just want a quick wordhead, finish it off, we were congratulating me, Colin, just that moment at the end there in Thompson's speech for Michael Jack, you know, was a real touching moment, and Braddus was very on them as well, you know, that's here in his eye, but a lovely end of the evening in memory of Michael Jack. I, yeah, listen, it's, you know, small communities and Michael Jack was a huge, you know, huge part of Doney Gall football in general, because I don't think you could have gone the length of breath of the country, that people didn't know Michael Jack, but a very popular and prominent character within the Neve Connell Club represented Neve Connell with distinction down through the years, and like, you know, from, you know, from what I can remember back in the day, when, you know, when we were still using Kodak cameras, and you had to go and develop the film, and they were in black and white, Michael Jack in another 12 of the match would be along the side taking pictures, and he just loved the game, and he loved people, and people loved him. And I think, you know, there's a lot of things happening in the glanties over the last 12 months, there's like, we had Philly as well, who was, you know, present at the club for a long number of times passed away, God rest in soul, you had Michael Jack the same way, this is the club's centenary year, you know, there's a lot of, a lot of emotional stuff going on around the club this year, and the very fact that in a centenary year, we've locked away a league, we've locked away the championship, better luck, you know, you could one, two championships with the one, I know there's a lot of work to be done, but, you know, Michael Jack, Philly, you know, Paddy Amon Boyle, another huge club man, and I think it's great for those people to remember at a time like this, because, you know, this team would be nowhere without those men, and there is an important part of the club, as Cairn Thompson is now, so it's, it was very poignant, and Cairn did a great job in remembering that. Well wrapped up, John. Listen, thanks very much, and enjoy the celebrations here, Gary. Thanks for joining us and giving us a point of view this evening on the DL debate, I'll see you both soon. All right, Brad, thank you. Thanks, Ben. See you, Gary.