 What is up and welcome back to another episode of insurance influencers where we find power Freakin players and influencers in our industry to jump on Educator audience and to bring some valuable content my buddy Jeff root is one of the best at doing that dude Thank you for being all man. Of course of course anything. I love it, buddy Dude, I've always been even before we knew each other I was the dude lurking and listening to everything you put out, you know And you didn't even know it This was pre pre YouTube and all this stuff, you know, but I was I was the dude Every time I got on a plane. I put on your podcast. That's that's awesome man. Yeah, that was Man, that was like four or five years ago. I think when I first came out with that modern life insurance selling podcast I haven't done it for a couple years, but I'm gonna fire that thing back up pretty soon here That's awesome. I think it's been fantastic. Jeff is the owner of digital BGA The host of the modern life insurance selling podcast we were just talking about and the author of the digital life insurance agent He also talks a lot about five business owner fundamentals of life insurance agent, which I'm sure we'll touch on When did you start to you've been doing phone sales and you know building out sites in SEO for a while? Yeah, yeah, I mean I like everybody I got recruited into the industry by Northwestern Beach Hills a financial advisor and Ran through my personal network and ended up buying a batch of leads and selling one over the phone The guy didn't want to meet with me even though he's 15 Yeah, and so he's like do we need to even meet just send me the application I was like, all right. I got it back placed in force was the easiest silver made and I was like, all right This is what I'm gonna focus on you know, and so that was you know, that was in 2007 and Yeah, and then yeah, and so I just started working leads I was you know back then it was like shooting a fish in a barrel like every lead company was good and You know, why do you think that was? Yeah, you know, so People were going online and there wasn't There wasn't much competition. There wasn't many people advertising for life when I was selling life insurance those days I mean I even put up a website and within two months. I think I posted like 10 blog posts, you know, not I know what I was doing and then I started getting leads people finding me and These were great leads and that's kind of how I kind of got my you know started getting my taste of marketing down. So You know as far as why it was so good I think around 2008 that's when ping posting technology came out and You know where then those lead vendors instead of selling direct to agent and dealing with with all that They started sending them through Ping trees which sells to the highest bidder and sells multiple times And then it just diluted the quality of a lead and so it's been refreshing the past couple years seeing like, you know You're your lead company and a bunch of others out there just really do an agents right and not going through Ping trees, you know Thank you, buddy. Yeah for sure that yeah I mean with those with those with the ping posts everything else They're like they're selling to each other and it's like a frenzy and a bidding market and you can who knows how many times The leads actually resold. I mean, it's insane. Yeah, exactly. So, you know after 2008 everything changed But before that man, those thought that was the heyday. Yeah. Hey, have you ever have you ever taken a? Disc assessment on yourself? No, you know why I ask because I See you as like someone and I don't say it's about many people you haven't you you have ambition and drive You know aggression right that that's a D. I is like I'm influential I'm social which you know, you're both of those s is like service oriented, which obviously you are See is like I'm consistent. I'm like a computer guy, you know, I'm gonna put in the work data I kind of see you as being good in a lot of versatile ways, you know, you're selling over the phone You're running a company. You're scaling a business, you know, you're doing a podcast. You're an influencer. You're a face The personality but you're also, you know, have taught yourself all these amazing marketing secrets behind the scenes, you know What do you what do you think of that? I Think it describes me to a T for sure. I'm I broke. I'm writing. I don't right now to look into that It's a personality like my personality behavior test, you know We do it with with we actually have every one of our sales people take a disk before we hire them and Because you want sales people that are like high D's and high eyes If they're service oriented, they should be in my support environment if they're, you know, a high C Computer consistency all that they should be in my, you know, they should be an engineer But high D and high I they're typically a better sales person You wouldn't believe this but when I do Myers-Briggs, I always identify as an introvert So seriously, yeah, yeah for some reason that's you know, maybe that's why maybe that's why a podcast because nobody's in the room Yeah, don't be on video, you know, I wrote a book again. That's completely ends off, you know But um, yeah, it's you know something People wouldn't think of no totally. Is that something has that been a Not a struggle, but do you I mean you put yourself out there? You've got a Facebook group you're doing live videos and videos you're hosting the mat You know the digital architecture by agent mastermind, you know, I mean the conference now I mean you're all over the place, you know Is that something like you've had to force yourself to do being a you know, maybe an introvert, you know, definitely No, absolutely, you know, it all started when I joined this location independent entrepreneur group Back in 2012, but I made a trip to Bangkok and I met all these like ninja marketers and These guys doing just crazy things that I didn't think were possible, right? And that's where I kind of got the idea is like at the time podcasts were like rising and these you know I've saw a couple presentation on podcasts and I was like, all right. I could do this, you know, and so That's where I did the podcast and I wanted back the next year to Bangkok again. These guys They live around the world. I mean, they're just like you and me, you know, but they're you know They're just crazy into their work doing these You know little known things that work and they kind of share it totally in this conference And then they said, you know what right now if you want to build authority, you got to write a book I was like, all right. Okay, so I wrote the book. Yeah And so when you say the whole the whole this thing it makes, you know Because I'm always diving into information and then applying it to insurance, you know and not just to like that part of it but to you know selling it over the phone Yeah, and you know a lot of different strategies that are pulled out of the insurance industry because I mean What's that November 5th Nailba, which is a BGA Conference that's in the next couple days or so it's just right at the street in Dallas from here I'm in Austin and I keep getting phone calls. Hey, are you going like you're going like no, it's not my thing I don't get any value from it, you know, you know, just like these these old ways of insurance I just I just don't identify with with that So, you know, I think that's that's kind of the way I'm kind of progressing is I'm just pulling information from outside and Not really doing what's I'm supposed to be doing. Yeah. Yeah I mean, well, I mean you were you were making digital phone cells sexy before it was right? Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know and now everyone wants to do it You know and and so I've kind of noticed that as a trend over the last several years We'll put out content and honestly the most sought-after thing that always comes up is telecells, you know It's phone cells it's hey I want to stay in my pajamas and make a million bucks a year, you know like Anthony Martin You know, it's just like incredible What what was it was it just the guy said I don't want you to come to my house and you sold it And you're like, maybe I can do this again. Yeah, was that it? That's exactly it I like doing my Monday my Monday night cold calls and then you know, yeah, the whole project 100 going through all that and Just I just didn't like it. And so once I just you know, once that happened. I was like see I'm done Like I left yeah within within a couple weeks I was gone once I sold a couple more and Then I just picked up other contracts at the time AIG was the big one and Just wrote a bunch of AIG for a couple years. I mean, I really right. Yeah. Yeah, most all term I didn't even sell a final expense policy. Like I didn't even know it existed back then So sell term life calm right I mean exactly my wife came up with that name by the way, dude That's a great name Great name. I'll actually I do research on stuff all the time. I'm like a research junkie and I kind of like to know what other people are doing, you know, and That site comes up all the time Cool. Good. Yeah, good. It's still working. I just got to put some more effort into it, you know Totally, I'm with you Dude, what was the inspiration for the book and in the book again the digital life insurance agent? Yep, you can find on Amazon inspiration for the book was I Kept getting so many emails and so many people wanting me to mentor them And I just don't have time to mentor people and I'm not a Cody askings that's gonna go to people and do all these presentations because I it's not I It's not my thing, you know, so yeah, I just put everything that I knew about marketing insurance generating leads selling insurance over the phone the processes the scripting the You know, what's working and and how I do it just as people have the baseline And so then I could just say hey just send him a link instead of hey I don't mentor people but literally follow the book. That's what you mentioned Anthony Martin That's what Anthony Martin did you follow the book, you know, so Yeah, how how long ago did you write the book? July 2016 is when it came out. Okay. Okay. I Remember had been out for several years, but that's good. That's really good and and you've noticed it but you know You know, someone says, you know, if you want to get some attention to be an expert, you know Bring bring I've actually the reason I'm asking about the book for a second totally random sure is I was in the car I think I was listening to a podcast or an audiobook or something I think it was today. It was today or yesterday. My brain is always so scattered and I Literally had the thought You know, I'm always talking about cells and building a sales team and everything we're doing and I'm like Maybe I should write a book, you know Yeah, it was hard to get me to sit down for a day and write a book But I think I should write a book, you know for sure. I mean it's I'll tell you how the process went for me. It was I wrote the first chapter I outlined the rest of the book and then I hired somebody to kind of be my behind-the-scenes like help me through this help me formulate my thoughts basically Interview me for Skype calls and then and then jot all and then she just took notes on everything that I said as I was just brain-dumping and Then I take those notes do some copy and paste and some typing on it. That's that's how I got it Wow, I'm a book writer, but that's kind of yeah, that's what I did, you know because I can't sit in front of the screen and and Type Thousands of words at a time and trying because my thoughts they happen right now I'll forget my thought, you know if I'm trying to type it out Exactly, dude. I mean that that is the that is the mind of an entrepreneur like we someone could leave me Someone could like hate our guts and two hours later. We're like who were they again, you know, yeah Yeah, so true. How long did it take you to write the book? Three to four months So yeah, three months and then four months once it got to formatting and I had to do a book cover and stuff And get it into Amazon. So I did create space on Amazon. So they print it as somebody orders it. They just print it out Wow, yeah, that's awesome. That sounds so simple. They go through like a massive publishing company everything else, right? Then you know buying committing to printing it, you know, a couple thousand books and then trying to sell them. Yeah, it's yeah You're not gonna make any money selling books. I'm guessing exactly. I didn't do it to sell the books So I don't care if I'm losing money by doing that. Yeah, right it in what why would you say? You did it for a couple reasons, you know, I would imagine obviously it does help people it does help insurance agents, you know And it elevates your status, you know, you're an author, you know for sure. I mean, I did it for I did it for the authority Truly, I wanted to get my knowledge out there in a digestible Tangible thing. I mean, it's pretty cool when somebody, you know Has something of yours tangible that they refer to rather than a website where they can read a blog or Or anything else listen to a podcast That's a lot more powerful and I mean, that's That's that's the reason we're trying to build out. Yeah, like more swag, you know and items and you know Maybe a book, you know, etc. Because that's just yeah, I noticed that like people it when I get a box in the middle It goes on my Instagram story, you know, I mean why not, right? It's and so I think that's the same case for anybody in anything, you know, so yeah It's exactly what happened book came out and people started taking pictures with all my friends, of course and yeah The industry and like posting and sagging me and then they kind of like it was awesome. Yeah, that's cool, man What what tips would you give for someone? That's really interested in selling over the phone whether it's term or final expense and they're like They don't know where they don't want to get started and it's not easy, you know right I think Well, first of all they need to come to the realization that They need to invest in leads and that is just a That is it you are, you know, I would you agree with without leads and agent is unemployed. Yes, absolutely. Yeah Good. Exactly So that's that's number one Don't even hop into telesales if you don't have any money for leads And you don't even need that much money for leads especially for final expense at cash flows so well You sell policy today you get you know for a lot of companies that pays tomorrow, you know with a 75% advance fund your next lead order About how much money is a good starting point like or at least like a minimum, you know, do you got to have this? I mean minimum, I'd say minimum thousand dollars, you know More yeah, yeah, even then you're like it's a thousand dollars if you if they don't like You know strike gold or or get good or have a few cells It's like, you know, where they're gonna go next, you know You don't want to like get somebody involved and then there's a thousand dollars, you know I always tell people will number one find a place where you can get the training And there's a repeatable sales process that you can plug into anybody can Sell over the phone if they follow a process That is it. I mean, I mean I've seen you with North Star Totally totally totally processed. He can make anybody's successful Same thing if you have a few of a process you can you can do it And that's what that's what we do a digital VGA as well And so we you know have the technology and the training that anybody can go in and and plug into a system And just literally click a button and talk to somebody Okay, interest they're not shouldn't just just keep going until you're until you make a sale And so to kind of get back to you know, you made the comment Like yeah a thousand dollars. They might make a sale. They might not you know, and they base it all off of that It's true like I always say if if you buy your first batch of leads And you make a sale or two That is awesome. Even if you're barely profitable like you still have those leads to work You still have all those follow-ups. They're gonna fall in our technology. We can see I mean this is a this is a cool piece of data where we can see Our marketing and to you know and what results in sales so we can take any time frame and we see every week So let's just say it took November 1st, you know four days ago And oh, it's you know, it's maybe like a 1.5 percent sale ratio the next week 1.7 the next week, you know Three months later six seven percent, you know, it's just it takes time So if you can break even you're Like that's how all the rock stars started like you made a little bit of money from the very beginning And a lot of people quit right there. And that's the thing is like, oh man, you know I sold two policies out of my thousand lead order Dude, you're profitable Yeah, you know keep buying you're a lot of those other ones are going to pop. So you know, I think expectations are You know really need to be set that you know, it's it does take a while to build your pipeline and that's absolutely and You know if the cost of starting a business like this is only the cost of leads Come on man, like just do it work Yeah, I mean I spent thousands of dollars on cleaning equipment when I was 18 or 19 I don't know before I started insurance because I was like, I'm gonna Go clean offices because I'm a freshman in college playing basketball And I'm gonna just go around and sell people and let me clean their office, you know And I had to like borrow the money Spend thousands of dollars on vacuums and everything else and then pay it back, you know But it was like You can get into insurance for freaking less than a cleaning business, you know, it's it's crazy Yeah, and literally it's the cost of doing businesses leads. So That's my number one thing. You got to have money for leads. Um, if you want to get into business, um, that's good Nothing groundbreaking. I know No, no, that's great though. And I love the sales process I think it's one thing people struggle with, you know, even when they do have leads You're like, I don't want to say I don't want to do, you know, and so I love I love that Yeah, absolutely. I mean Month after month the guys I see in the top of our leaderboards I mean, they stick to the same process every single call They've brain it in they control the call. They've got great tonality. They've got a great attitude. They're saying, you know, they're They're hitting their emotional points and yeah, and they do well Then, you know, the guys that still they take a bunch of leads they do well. They're profitable You're not as profitable as the other guys, you know, they're winging it They're kind of going off script and you know kind of being their friend and you know, you just You're not here to make friends on the phone. You're here to, you know, guide somebody to a sale. So, you know, a lot of agents kind of Could really use as like just a good sales process and that's what would make them successful What's your opinion on staying in control of the call asking questions? Yeah, I mean So a lot of a lot of people a lot of consumers prospects Try to take control of the call It's just a It's a do you think that's when the injection? Yeah, do you think that's what objection is? They're just trying to take control Yeah, yeah in a way for sure. Um, you know Yeah, so I I think that consumers don't know the Buying process for life insurance when they sign up online fill out a form online, you know, they just don't know the buying process And because they don't know the buying process, you know, they're They don't know what to expect and you're just going to put up your guard until somebody can explain to you that buying process somebody you can trust Can guide them heard them to where they you know To to the reason why they filled out that form online so The fact that there's no like consumers don't know the buying process of life insurance Yeah, people have their guards up and you got to get past that, you know that that that's really what it is And everybody's going to give you an objection You know Until you can show them the process and you can get them to trust you So Absolutely. Yep. I love that You mentioned before five business owner fundamentals of a life insurance agent I'd like to get in those and share those with the audience. Sure. Sure. Yeah, so it's kind of this thing I've been helping Agents in the business and you know specifically to tell sales. I'm a you know, I'm a tell sales guy and you know And we touched on it before is is we are really with buying leads. We are business owners And the great thing about our business is the cost of doing business Is only the leads in a few nominal subscriptions for a CRM or whatever, right? Yeah But agency to start viewing their agency as an actual business and most agents don't have the business Education or experience and so that's kind of what what I'm kind of teaching agents So they can kind of get a another lens on some of the things that people are saying So, you know, you know, what one of the five Fundamentals that I talked about is increasing average order value you'd go to any business school you go to any Ecommerce or any any other type of business everybody's talking about increasing average order value We don't use those terms in life insurance, but that's really You know, we replace those terms and what we you know, what you can do is obviously upselling You know adding writers or whatever adding other products or cross selling with medicare di critical illness Anything like that going for the double style sales child sales All that increases order value something that nobody ever talks about is a down sell Like nobody's talking about down sells Right, but if if you're an internet marketer, you know what I'm talking about. Cody, right? Yes. Yes. Yeah So when somebody tells you no, right When you know online if if you go online and you go through somebody's funnel And you know, you don't buy the product you're in the checkout thing They're going to try and sell you something else a little bit cheaper or something else that's You know might be a You know a lead into the product that they want to sell you But you know agents can down sell too if someone says no offer them an alternative product, you know, absolutely Yeah, I mean after a full presentation when someone says no Most agents give up right then and there they might try to overcome some objections objections You know by then you should know why it's a no, you know Is it affordability as a trust? Is it the wrong product? you know the more savvy veteran agents know that this is a time to down sell and Talk about something that they might have hit on in the fact-finding process So, you know, it's funny It's funny. You mentioned that begin what I thought of and why I was actually laughing at the same time was I started at uh at mutual Omaha. I was 18 as an intern and I was Calling uh, I don't not actually have the phone book, but it you know, it was cold calls. So pretty much They were just I hope they were scrubbed, but I was doing it for a veteran agent because I was an intern I was learning and He would have me the script was horrible, but it was like, hello, uh, do you do you have uh life insurance? You know, or would you like would you like a quote for life insurance? No. Well, are you on medicare? No Well, would you like a quote for an annuity? No. Well, how about disability and it's just like it's just like the worst down sell ever Yeah, I mean, but I mean but really though after a full presentation Yes, and you and you still get a note. I mean, yeah, there's probably something wrong with your presentation That you know, your intuition didn't take you to where The the prospect wanted to go but you can down sell and you can talk about something else that might be more interesting to them So that's what I mean by that. Yeah, exactly. Which is which is gosh, it's it's funny. I mean, it just is hilarious So so was that some of the things we were talking about? Um was leads training sales process or were the fundamentals totally different? So, I mean the fundamentals that what I just said was, you know, increase average order value. That's fundamental number one, you know And it's just really getting those cross sells those upsells those down sells down. I mean That that's a big part of what business owners do and what you're taught in in business school Um, what you're taught in really any internet marketing course Um To do that and just putting it in life insurance agent terms, you know, yeah, it's that's really what it is for us and you know, it's It's just one of the fundamentals that a lot of business owners go through and it's just another like it's another another way to look at These things that everybody's talking about and cross selling on everything you you're increasing your average order value And that's how you become more profitable as a business owner Absolutely. No, I love that. I love that. That's good What's number two? So I got five, um, I'm not sure if we'll get through all of them, but I'm I'm down to keep going. Uh, number two lift conversions So, I mean cody, you're probably doing this all day every day You know just looking at everything how can you lift conversions every business owner is looking for a way to live conversions Meaning more sales per marketing dollar spent You know, there's so many ways to do this if you're generating your own leads online And you know that comes in the form of ad copy targeting landing page Conversion optimization, you know, I understand most agents don't do this But it's one factor every agent generating leads is working on you know for agents that aren't they're just selling great Um, the biggest thing you can do is follow a proven telesales process Get out of your comfort zone and adopt what the high volume agents are saying Um, that's conversion. You're gonna sell more of the people you talk to That's good. You know get more policies you write to place in force another another thing field underwriting You know don't always sell the cheapest sell the most convenient. A lot of people don't want the cheapest They just want to get something done, you know, totally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean that brings up a good point So so you've I always think of you as, um, you know sell term life calm modern life you're selling podcasts I always think of you as like, you know, Historically always selling a lot of term insurance over the phone, right? So, um, what would you What would you say to someone that would say well, should I sell fully underwritten or should I sell simplified issue? Uh, I would say present both and um Lean your sales process towards simplified issue. So let them make the choice. Yeah, good. Good Because I I I used to sell, uh, I guess I still do it once in a while But fully underwritten term over the phone And or at least in person and I just hated the speed and the underwriting and it drove me nuts Yeah, it's not fun. Um Yeah, it's not fun unless you have a big pipeline and it takes a while and uh, we you know It's a falling off point for agents who want to sell over the phone Is because they always go for the cheapest which is the fully underwritten product Which takes six to eight weeks to get approved and paid or you know And then they're already out of money before they get that commission. So, you know If if you position it correctly In a sales process most will lean towards simplified issue And you know, hey, let's get this done today You know, we can always cancel this and go with something cheaper later on You know, and it's If you position it correctly, you'll you'll get More than half of your sales will be simplified issue. Wow. That's good. Yeah, that's really good Because yeah from an outsider looking in I was always curious what you were doing, you know And I didn't know that so that's good. Yeah. Yeah, most of our term agents, um, are Positioning simplified issue where they can obviously there's limits on coverage amounts and everything But when they can they're positioning Simplified issue and the market's getting, you know, better with accelerated underwriting up to a million dollars Even more in some carriers under certain conditions. It's um, yeah, it's only going to get easier Convenience wise for those term agents Why is that are companies just noticing that the agents are like, you know, fed up with it or no I just think it's technology catching up That's that that's really all it is. Yeah, good. Good. That's awesome Well on the technology note any, uh Any thoughts from you on anything that is, you know, coming down the pike You know super random, but yeah, I mean I went to insure tech a couple months ago in vegas Yeah, it's it's an incredible conference It's not really fridge. Yeah, it's not really fridge. There's 7 000 people there. Um, unreal, you know, it's Not really an agent conference, but um, I don't really see Any technology in the life insurance space affecting independent agents in the near future. Yeah, I think, um I think agencies and agents Just need to just build better processes build their own tech or whatnot. Um, I just don't see it I just don't see it happening. I mean the the only thing that you can say is threatening Is those bi online products, you know, the ecosys of the world and the show and all them, but Well, you just had a buddy that sold sold one, right? Something similar. Yeah, um What are you referring to? Well, I don't know if we're okay to talk about it was uh, well I guess so you shared it in your group and online, uh I forget the guy's name they they sell met they were selling medicare and final expense and you know There was like some of their site was automated driving a lot of inbound calls and you know, okay. Yeah, so yeah, this is this is um public. So, uh assurance Yes, assurance.com was recently acquired by prudential for 2 billion guaranteed But 3.2 billion with um, you know, earnouts and everything that they're projected ahead and um In this guy figured a couple things out just from his specific knowledge that he gained over the past decade of selling over the phone And he put it into tech he He uh, he just has this really intuitive system. I mean it's amazing and uh, I mean a lot of people have heard of assurance I mean they advertise everywhere for agents and a lot of people might have a bad taste in the mouth about it I know agents doing really well. I know agents that burned out. Um It's just one of those things. I think it's the effort you put into it. That's with anything though. Yeah, totally I I think it's a fine system and You know, it's uh, but yeah, I mean, but that wasn't really disruptive at all. You know, that was I don't think that would affect independent agents at all and so yeah, it's it's nothing we can use it's nothing we can Nothing we should feel threatened from or anything like that nice nice Tell us about for a quick second. Um, digital life insurance agent mastermind. It was it was in vegas, right? Yeah, last it was uh earlier this year in vegas. We had about 120 Agents, um, it's a two-day thing. We're planning our next one for next april or may And um, yeah, what we do is we just get agents in the trenches. We're not getting any carriers to speak. We're not getting any Anybody that's going to try and sell you something on the stage. Everybody needs to provide value We prefer agents in the trenches that are very successful And so you kind of learn like the ins and outs and really it's just a place to connect with other Digital life insurance agents. We're such a small niche and we get I mean And people take cracks at the digital life insurance space all the time face-to-face agents saying how it doesn't work How your persistency is terrible how Excellent, you know, and it's just one of those things where we know what it really is We're all going to hang out. We just have a great time, you know We it's it's basically a two-day party with a ton of value That's awesome. That's cool. You know what you know what I love about that Is and the same thing for 8% is bringing those online relationships offline, you know, and I've learned Like even getting to know you over the last couple years. It's it's been uh It's been incredible the people you meet, you know because of conferences and events and things mastermind things you can do in general It's just I'm learning that it is small Networking is important. I used to ignore it, but man I love I'm enjoying socializing, you know people I always leave a valuable nuggets, you know, uh, I think it's great absolutely I mean building community is is everything. I mean we're as life insurance agents. We're at home working by ourselves, you know To be able to get with people and talk to people that are doing what you're doing And uh and learning from each other, you know getting out of that that bubble Picking up new new skills and new insights is just is worth it. I mean I always tell people it's not the Yeah, you're going to get a ton of value from the speakers But it's those sidebar conversations where somebody you're just going to leave you nugget and uh, it's just going to change the way You do your business Absolutely. Yeah. Well, what's your uh for those that have interested in the facebook group? Is it is it is Are people able to join if they want? Yeah. Yeah, it's the digital life insurance Yeah, it's digital life insurance agent facebook group. Okay, that's what I thought that's what I thought you can confirm while we're out on here. Yeah But uh, yeah, I was thinking that because I actually I'm in it, you know, I see that see things every once in a while and uh Again, and I think it's very yeah digital life insurance agents. Yeah. Yeah, that's it. Tell us sales tech in online marketing Perfect. Perfect. Yep. I love it. I love it. Uh, what's something that uh, because I'm a big Um, big proponent of only eight percent succeed Um, and there's it's a tough industry, you know If you had a chance to like speak to someone that's you know, we get this will happen a lot I get messages every day of an agent that's like and you probably do too from your podcast that they're like I'm struggling I'm thinking about quitting Um, you know, I'm in my first three years. I'm not making any money You know, what what what's some helpful tips or some motivation or something you can do to to help that person? Yeah, so I mean When when somebody's struggling I said this is the last mastermind. Um, and everybody laughed. Um, I think people get in the way of themselves Um, I think I think my mindset's a lot But I also think that if you've tried a bunch of different things where other people have been successful There's something that you you need to address within yourself Um, you may not be cut out for this But you could be cut out for this if you can just get past a certain hurdle in your mind I Mentioned therapy. I don't ever recommend it. I don't ever say some of the struggling agent that emails me or gets a judgment Go to therapy. No, I don't say that but there's things you can do. I mean, there's coaches There's there's so many different ways to overcome that because people want to be successful so bad I can hear it in their voices Um And if they really want to be successful, there's obviously I mean if they haven't made it work in the Within two to three years, maybe they haven't found the right platform. I might refer them to somebody who can make them successful um, or You know If I was having a conversation I would probably bring up, you know, I probably dig in and Be the therapist to them and say, hey, yeah, there's something blocking you man because It's a certain type of person that succeeds that that's any eight percent and right now you don't have that you just there's something blocking you there And uh, and and that's how I see things. I think everybody Most everybody has it within them to to be successful in this business But there's something there that's stopping them. You know, maybe they'll do the activity Maybe they're too scared to invest in themselves with leads me. I I don't know but there's something there It's typically the first one. Yeah, typically one of those two things you said that's good Totally totally agree. Yeah, um You know what the power of like events and getting around people and and being able to pick up knowledge and learn. Um, We both Um, tressor who's in your facebook group. Yeah, we both bet him. I believe at insurance news at chicago, right? That's right Yeah, crazy the power of events man. Yeah, it's good Uh, in anything in closing you want to add um anything you want to mention how you know if there's something you want to Any tips you want to give how can they follow you they can buy the book on amazon? Any final thoughts? Um, no, I mean we post a lot in the digital the facebook group. So digital life insurance agent tele sales tech online marketing Um, ask i'm a creeper by the way. I'm a creeper all all good. I mean ask questions. I mean I'm there to answer questions in there. Everybody always emails me and everything and um You know, you're gonna you're gonna get there's a lot of successful agents in there that are creeping too And they're just you know, they will help. There's a lot of totally dany ray Danny ray Danny, I love that guy. He will always pay it forward. He doesn't even know it, but I'm like his biggest fan I love him. Well, well, you're you're gonna see him in san diego if you come out to the mass I'll be there. Yeah Yeah, but there's there's a lot of guys that just will pay it forward and they're waiting to help somebody Because they were all in that position at one point, too And so yeah, I'd say the facebook group if you're just kind of interested, you know in in tele sales I I would start there You know, and then there's there's a lot of different routes you can go, but you know, you need to know the situation Totally, that's good, man. Dude. You are an absolute influencer and thank you so much for being on brother I appreciate you Cody. You got him and hey, thanks for watching insurance influencers Or we bring on someone every single week that is Influencing and helping our industry so that more agents can be a part of the 8% my good buddy, jeff root Go follow him join his facebook group grab his book The digital life insurance agent on amazon And I always listen to his podcast the modern life insurance selling podcast. Have a great issue day. Appreciate you, buddy