 Alright, thanks for staying with us now. Life goes beyond shelter for food and also clothes, but security and safety is also very essential. So ensuring safety has always been of utmost importance in all ages and during all situations. One cannot deny the importance of safety because it helps people avoid danger and other life-threatening situations. On the other hand, safety can also allow people to take a certain level of risk in certain situations. Now, safety accounts for living a healthy life safely. The term safety refers to precautions taken by people with the aim to prevent accidents, dangers, harm, damage and loss. Safety also plays a key role in improving conditions in any atmosphere. Some argue that the unfortunate demise of Whitney, the 12-year-old Chris Lans school student that happened in February, was fate while others argue that it could have been avoided if safety was prioritized by all parties involved. So today we're discussing the business of safety in schools and that's the question, you know, or rather that's what we need to discuss around. So let's hear what you have to say. Remember you can join the conversation. Send us an SMS or WhatsApp to do it. 1-803-4663. You can also tweet at us at Weishaw, after one hashtag Weishaw. Alright, so this conversation, I really don't know because I remember that when the issue of the Chris Lans school, the younger Whitney, when it happened, I kept on saying, where were these people? Because in my head, I have been to that particular stadium. Because we've had several inter-houseports from my own children's school when they were in primary school because it's one of the, you know, it's quite decent for a small school to have their inter-houseports, right? I kept on wondering, first of all, what happened and, you know, where were the people and all of that? And again, if you had listened to the, listened to the recount of the mother when she was explaining how, you know, it was almost like... There was a long time between even telling how it was happening. There was just everything, you know, even getting the child there. Eventually they didn't even get the child to the hospital and all that. I knew there was a very huge, what's it called, huge evidence that negligence was heavily present in that. But now the corona inquest has come out to say that really she was electrocuted and all of that. And of course, if the government has charged Chris Land for months later. All right, so let me hear your thoughts, first of all. What do you think? I think they could have... Sorry, go ahead, quickly. I think they could have done better considering previous events that have happened in the same school. I think they should take more precautions because I think if you have a school and you're losing students, it's not that students are getting injured on cases, like cases upon cases. It's not good for your reputation. The other students in the school are also going to be scarred by some of these things. You know, people would want to withdraw. So as an institution, you have to understand that you're taking charge of young lives, and children can be very mischievous. You understand? So you need to have your eyes on them. If not, you keep having certain things like this happen. And the loss of a student, the loss of a life is nothing to be played with at all. At all. So Uti, manslaughter, reckless and negligent act, you know, that's what the Lagos State Government has charged Chris Lanskoe. And they said if they have found guilty, they would, of the offences, if found guilty, the offences carry a penalty of life imprisonment and two-year jail terms respectively. Those two crimes. What are your thoughts on this? Well, this... Contramacacy is the best way to define this first and foremost. It's sad that a life was lost. And even sadder still that it's a child. So a complete future has been snuffed out. But when we come to the story, I think that the recurring thing that we have seen, Chris Lanskoe, this incident is not the first. It is one of many that we have seen with several schools in Lagos that have resulted in the traumatic death of children. And for me, the first thing that stands out is the story becomes almost a he-said-she-said. The school is claiming one thing happened, the evidence shows and something else happens. That for me first is one thing that must stop. When parents send their children to school, there is a measure of trust that has been placed in that organization as being suitable not just to educate the child, but to keep the child safe when the child is in their custody. So the fact that these are the institutions that are educating our children that cannot display a level of integrity that we would expect from the same children that they're supposed to be educating, forget even adults, right? It's very, very, very sad and disappointing in the first place. The second thing is you would think that the schools have learned by now that you're able to come out and give a story that makes sense. How do we get from slumped and died to electrocution and expesiation? Like how do we get there, right? How is it possible that a child, so I don't know, I haven't read anything to the effect that it's been established how the child was electrocuted. If you've ever seen someone be electrocuted, it's not something that somebody misses, right? If you come into contact with the live wire and electricity, you can't miss it and to then just simply say that the child slumped and died, I have a problem with that. Now, you mentioned knowing the venue that the event, the sporting event was happening at. Again, the question that raises for me is should schools, because schools should have their own sporting facilities on site, that should be the case. When facilities are properly built for purpose, then they're supposed to have those facilities on site. But let's even say that, okay, we don't have these facilities on site. What checks are put in place and what measures, what is the minimum standard for a facility that you're using for a purpose like this? What are the checks? Who signs off on who can use it? Can I simply say, oh, there's an open field so I want to go and use it? Are there standards in place that says this is what we can do? For me, as I run through the whole incident, there's so many questions and very little answers. I don't know when you were talking about the court case. If you charge the whole school to manslaughter, what happens if you find the school guilty? Is it the entire teachers and student faculty that goes to prison? Has somebody been held responsible? So even on that side, it still sounds like there are gaps because I don't believe you can charge. That's the whole point of having corporate bodies is to protect the community. That's why we have a lawyer and a child safety person. Because that question really, it's actually what next, what happens, right? So Tawakilami is a social development lawyer, co-founder, power parenting company. Parents' rights to social protection, advocate and publisher. Akilami is arguably Africa's foremost child protection thinker and practitioner. His unique philosophy and techniques on family strengthening, child protection and related matters have been well received in over 133 countries. Akilami is also a prolific writer, poet and a blogger. And he's joined in live from the U.S. Thank you so much, Tawakilami, for joining the conversation. Thank you for having me. It's my pleasure to be with you today. I mean, it's really... I've been listening to the contributions from all of you. Yeah, because again, I'm so happy that we are still with you on this matter. You know, we're happy to be with you on this matter because again, remember when we talked about it, we kept on saying that we'll keep following the conversation and we're happy that you are here to fill us in on what is happening. Uti raised some questions, right? Because again, four people, how did they come at that four people? How did they identify the four people that they are charging with manslaughter? And generally, what's your general assessment on the... Because at first, we had accused the Lagos State Government that this was political season. That was why they took up the case seriously, but you see that they are following it through. So what's your general assessment on this case of the death of Whitney? How did you know? Well, my first thinking is that, up to today, the matter is still as politicized as everything. And when you deal with politicization, what happens is that you cover up the issues. The issues are not addressed. Once the issues are not addressed, we cannot vouch that what has happened to Whitney will not happen to another child. Because you see, there are fundamental ways to look at this thing. I've been in the middle of this thing. I've reviewed a brief file before the table. Please let me give correct some impression. As of today, the Lagos State Government released a document that says that the child died of electrocution according to the Corona Inquest. No, not Corona Inquest. Autopsy report. Now, the Autopsy report is a document that is supposed to go before the Corona Inquest. Now, the Corona Inquest has just started sitting. They've only had one sitting, which was on March 6. Many times, they have sat. If you look at the Corona Inquest, this abuse or Romani's case. Romani's case, Corona Inquest started sitting in January 2021. They just finished taking evidence on March 6, the same day that Whitney's Corona Inquest started. And on that day, they now made an order to proceed to the venue where that abuse happened. Now, that is the Corona Inquest case is proceeding to the venue of the supposed crime two years after the crime has happened. That is what is happening in that case. Put that on one leg. So, what is happening right now is that the Corona Inquest is sitting. It has just started sitting. I think this case has been messed up. Lumped up. Now, to the general public, it makes sense what is going on. The school know that these things are done. We are worried. And this is why I am worried. Now, in the first instance, for you to prevent death in school, there must be regulations. The question to ask is that, what are the regulations of government? Whether in legal state or at the federal level or starting a school, putting a school in place. What are the things you must not do without? That you don't have those things you can set up in school. There is no way to be found. You will find something that looks like it. What are these safety requirements of starting a school in Nigeria? I am saying this on the national TV. People have it to come and show us and how it has been implemented. Schools do. Most schools do what they deem fit. Where do you have it in the world? That for you to run an organization where you are going to be receiving children, it is subject to the wins and caprices of the people running the school. It is not done anywhere. You can run an airline business and you say, safety is according to what I see. I service my airline once in a year. That's how I see it. That's number one problem. Number two, if whatever reason it ties in a school, which you don't prefer, what is the protocol of intervention and the level of regulatory bodies? Government is a regulatory body. What is the protocol of intervention? Nobody can show us the protocol of intervention. The normal thing we do to play to the guy is to show down the school. Which is not the way forward. It's not the solution. Number three, now we have a case where a corona inquiry was settled. Now, you see how Tulsi Lipoda was released? It was not supposed to be released to the public. It was a document before the corona inquiry. Because the reason why I am saying all of these things is that when things are not properly done a process is tampered with. It cannot deliver anything good. And you see, because the judge is going to sit in that corona inquest. It's a human being. It goes to the market. It hears news. He hears everything. Now that corona, that Tulsi Lipoda was supposed to be a document before the corona inquest. When that document goes before the corona inquest, the one who made the Tulsi report, the one who wrote it, who did the examination, will be in the witness box. It will be examined by the lawyers. By the lawyers of the government. They were examining him. For him to establish the authenticity of that particular document. The lawyers of Chris Land will cross examine him. If for whatever reason, there is a problem with that Tulsi. The judge will re-order it. As in cases where corona inquest has been re-ordered. Sorry, where the Tulsi report has been re-ordered. Because the court did not have confidence in the Tulsi report. But what did the legal state government do? Because it was close to election. What they did was to release that document. Now I'm not persecuting the legal state government. Maybe they don't even know better. I don't know. The Tulsi report. That Tulsi report was not conclusive. It was a document that says that this child died of electrocution. You know the purpose of inquest, corona inquest is to establish the cause and circumstances of death. Now, Tulsi report speaks to one thing. Likely cause of death, electrocution. According to the Tulsi report, that in itself is supposed to go before the inquiry for interrogation. But it was released to the public and it became something in the news. That's one leg. Number two leg is the issue of this charge to court or no charge to court. Yes, the government in its wisdom is commendable, the DPP in their wisdom they have said four persons not Christmas school, four persons representing the institution apart from the vendor vendor made the four persons there are three people that have been charged the principal is the head of the school that was having internal support. So she's been charged and two other people and the vendor who had the vending machine that is the machine that allegedly caused the electrocution four of them have been charged for gross negligence in volunteer of that. Now before the court, please note a charge does not signify guilt everybody charged to court is innocent of the proven guilty that's why they need to go to court and establish all of that. So I'm still at where I am when I came to this program the other time. It is the fact that it is too early in the day to make some conclusions because at the end of the day one thing we need to know I need to know is that the way this matter has been handled press will win parents of the child or everybody observing may be happy and it is understandable the parents are seeing that some moves are being made but the way it has been politicized has affected the process once the process is affected what is going to come out of it is ticing and what is going to happen is that everybody is going to go to bed we wait for that child to die let me quickly say this to you ladies every society must learn from what has happened this traffic light you are looking at today traffic light that invasion is as a result of a problem that somebody felt people cannot die in a city like this let's create traffic light to begin to guide the way people do things now what you call today a bus a school bus dropped children and a car came and rammed into them and killed one or two of them from that day the government made laws that as from today in that particular state if you see any school bus parked no car was moved in a particular state and robbers attacked a particular bank they attacked the bank and they killed people and at that time the law in that state no police officer must carry assault rifle on the basis of that incident that took the life nobody died in that incident but police fought to the end and they amended their law to say that now police can carry assault rifle now that they see what is going on finally you see laws being named after people in developed country is it if we investigate this matter very well it's not a bad idea where we have a law named after Sivesta or Romani law on safety of school but you see the way the things have been politicized the misinformation that has been spread in the public is causing a lot of trouble and I bet you that at the end of the day we may not get to the root of this matter because once the politics has gone down swimming in has taken place and you see the court or Romani they have been caught for two years the matter has not ended this matter also is going to be caught now some people may go to jail it's a possibility some people may be set free but the question is what is the procedure for starting a school what are the safety measures that you cannot start a school without where are they number one, number two if for whatever reason an accident happens what is the procedure for response clearly stated which website can we find it at the federal level which website can we find it is it at the local government level where can we find it number three, what is the procedure for reporting matters like this because again if we have a minister of information in legal state and strategy what minister of information at the federal level when matters like this happen or we have a national mobilization national orientation agency how is the press guided what is the proper protocol to report the situation don't spin misinformation those are the three fundamental issues ok you know what Tywa let's quickly go on a very short break when we come back from the break I'm sure Uti and Mary have questions stay with us we'll be right back alright so if you just tuned in we're discussing the business of safety in schools with Tywa Killami and remember you can join the conversation send us an SMS or at 301-803-4663 you can also tweet others at weishoafqa1.hashtag weisho Uti I want to come to you because Tywa really raised some very strong points around templates around protocols of intervention around reporting procedure and remember I mean I know that when schools when you're driving around school school where there are schools in school areas in the US you must you know you see that you wait until they finish once the boss that their flap comes out everybody stops you know there's a speed limit there's a lot of things that have been put in place Uti you want to come in yeah I mean our guest has raised some fantastic points so far like I was trying to say in the initial my initial contribution these cases continue to raise a lot of questions and I would like to understand more from our guest when he talked about the fact that it's been two years you know when something doesn't directly impact you it's easy to lose track of time when I hear that it's been two years I'm actually quite shocked that that much time has gone past and I want to understand why it's taking so long because this is a consistent every time we talk about whether it's gender based violence rape assault a consistent thread feedback that we keep getting is that it takes too long families give up along the way justice is circumvented nothing really happens and I think that's what our guest means when he will say that the media will be pleased because they make all the noise and razzmatazz and then we all move on do you remember how much Sylvester's story was in the news and here we are now and we're hearing that this is how long it's been to actually get into this process because surely the judiciary can be much more efficient how are you there? I think that the problem is deeper than that societies invest in what matters to them I don't think children really matters you know in Nigeria and Africa to a very large extent you know the nations of the future focus on children nations of the future is all that they have if I'm going to think about it tomorrow you cannot dream it tomorrow or drop it tomorrow without children because the way to end this world today is to obitrate the other idea of having children while we stop having children people will start dying of nobody to bury them and this will become extinct so as long as we are looking for a better future how do we invest in that future? is there anything too much to invest in the safety of our children? you are talking about Whitney and Daniel because she made it to the news she died in the highbrow school whatever many other children who died just today today, today, 31st of March Thugs went into his queen's bathroom they beat children beat them up mercilessly, beat teachers headsmen just today in Lagos in Salem children caught second-year school caught clashed, macheted people were injured and all of that just today, 31st of March so the question is because those ones the people in Ibadon they are in a public school they don't make it to the mainstream it's not newsworthy Christian is a big fish so it makes news it's a highbrow school what about other places where children have died that never made the news we never heard about it Whitney is a metaphor it's a clear indication that we need to understand how does safety work so in a Romanian case for example we are this mother that I let to know that we are beat in court every time the court has sat in a Romanian case the first lady sitting in Ekbe before they went to Ekete one of the issues we are facing in the Romanian case is the judge magistrate finding where to sit we were on that for a while the court in which the judge wanted to sit is being used by another person so the judge needed to wait and all of that after all of those bureaucratic bottlenecks and all of that the court came to a point now so let me ask you a question if you are not a lawyer you watch American films have you ever seen when a crime happens where the court don't know the place so that nobody will tamper with the the setting of the place is it not curious to you that corona inquest is just going to visit the site where this boy was allegedly bullied 2 years after they took that decision on the 6th of March after everybody has assumed they painted everything maybe they have already arranged the place that's why you want to go and do corona inquest what are you inquesting I don't even know what these people think we are you know you now go to a crime scene now at the gay stadium where allegedly allegedly allegedly electrocuted is the place called on doth have they not even had events after that time the processes and procedures through which they have made people into that place have they done that see let me tell you something Nigeria when it comes to children it's a huge suit of jokes of course we are just deceiving ourselves and the truth of the matter is that in the life of this child really matters this is not how to handle it at the gay stadium is then in all of this conversation we are having I call somebody in government what is happening to the stadium the place at the gay stadium host other children is not only christland the host what do you have as ministry of youth ministry of youth and social development is in charge of stadium because it's in charge of sports now that ministry now what is the when they know as officers of government as line ministry as a degrading body that children do go there for in transport what measures do they put in place to ensure that the place is safe for children and Taiwo I was going to ask that why are they not on this list of the people that have been charged for manslaughter because again they also have a responsibility they were supposed to ensure that whoever it is that they have approved to come into the facility to use the facility brought in things that are safe for children knowing that it was a children's event so why are they not on that list they themselves they were going to receive children in law there's something called occupier's liability when you admit people into your property you have you have received an automatic liability to ensure that they are protected now so and the idea of holding in transport in that stadium is not new it's not fresh outcome there is no conversation going on as to what is going to happen now when people go to court now today you have Chrisland in court you have Lagos State government in court in the corona inquest who do you have in court you have Chrisland in court you have Lagos State government in court who is trying to establish the case of the Lagos State government in the case of Whitney in court who are observing the proceedings to make sure that justice is done then you have the vendor in court there's not a good stadium in court a good stadium is not an issue meanwhile this thing that we are talking about happened on the soil of a good stadium so who dropped the ball who neglected that critical part of the conversation or stakeholders so you want to tell me that this process is going to bring out anything to that place to have entire sport when this one is going to teach us anything to say okay this is the conditions that we are going to have in entire sport these are the conditions that we can exist these are the things you need to put in place is there no we as a today be thinking about the Whitney and Denny Rolls law shouldn't we as a today be thinking about the Sylvester Romanians law that is going to crystallize all the issues that are wrong that were found in Denny Rolls Whitney's case and we say okay these are the lessons that we have learned and these are the lessons that we have assured that children are going to like let me announce to you and this is a very sad announcement with the way we are in two months in Nigeria we cannot guarantee the safety of our children except for organizations who take it upon themselves to do the needful who take it upon themselves for conscience sake who take it upon themselves for dignity sake who take it upon themselves for the love of children let me quickly say to you that when a law is made people don't respect the law you don't put a law in place and hope that people will respect it and hope on the good will of the people you put the law in place and you put sanction now the question is when you when you say there are institutions that are supposed to accommodate children parents take their children there is it not sad that there are no protocols is it not sad there are no clear way by which you can judge whether a school has done the right thing or it has not done the right thing except schools that decide to do the needful to do the right thing so that is the issue we are dealing with until we overcome that issue until we come to such a place where parents are asking the right question and this is the illustration for me I don't know if I have time to bring that illustration when I was growing up I went to public school in my life public school parents public school, secondary school public school, university I went to legal state university my school fees was $19 now when I was growing up that we were going to public school government was playing two roles in schools government was funding school government was also government was funding schools government was also running its own school now as time went on government could not cope we don't like the idea of running school so we began to have people who cannot go to school because there is not enough school private sector with its ingenuity came in and began to establish private schools is that not so so public school the debt of public school the inability of public schools to satisfy the educational yearning of the people led to the idea of private school which means that the government failed in one of its responsibilities which is to create enough school for children to go to because Nigeria is one of the few countries where private school is an alternative to public school you don't find it anywhere else anywhere else and I was going to even speak to what Uti said sorry Taiwaki Lamu let me conclude so the conclusion therefore is that if they are failed in running school they are still holding on to one which is regulation so the way you do one thing is the way you do everything if you are failed in running your own school that will not lead the responsibility of regulation to you and this is because you are failed in running school that's why we took a children to private school the bottom line therefore is that regulation is in the hands of parents parents that will schools accountable you can't be depending on government to regulate when they are failed woefully in one leg of their responsibility it is as a matter of fact since you know that they are like that you are a man you want to rip when you have no sense since you know why didn't you take my money to the U.S. since we now know by registered in private school what we need to do is to now begin to become the regulator but who will have a student school please where is your transportation system codified into a policy broken down into processes oh we are in townspeople ok please show me I am a parent I want to see your security risk analysis I want to see everything you are putting in place to be sure that all of my children are safe if I don't see that risk analysis if I don't see everything you are putting in place where is your ambulance hello are you driving the ambulance tomorrow ok when I am sure I release my children if I am not sure son please your life is more important than in townspeople you are fine we will take you somewhere to go and do sport when you are safe that's how we should be doing stuff absolutely it's important because again when Uti was talking about purpose built schools the reason we don't have purpose built schools is because the government failed most of the government schools were actually you know structured in a way that they have the big fields they have everything but private schools are then renting 3 bedroom apartment 4 bedroom apartment to start schools so I mean there is no way it's a big problem and I like what you said we are now the regulatory bodies we don't have to wait for the government anymore let's take comments ok I have a comment from which says good evening my dear beautiful sisters of what are you saying Waze the business of safety in schools every teacher in a school should be held responsible for whatever happens to a child if someone had put an eye on late with Nia De Nirom Crescent schools and her parents wouldn't have lost her by now the negligence of teachers if a teacher lives home in the morning to a school he or she must put into consideration the well-being of a child or children it is very key your guest made mention of not setting up a school or establishment when facilities are not made available which I agree it is well with also my name is Daniel Illo Waze regular fan so can we wrap up in one minute Tywo like 30 seconds well these conversations it continues it is something we need to continue to talk about what I am going to say is that what I want to leave everyone is that you need to hold government accountable but why we are trying to hold government accountable the same way the PSN is not working you got generator the same way Vigilante is not working you got private security the same way you have created a tannity in different areas of our lives the same way you need to become the regulated body in sin to eat that schools are safe for your children absolutely thank you so much on that note thank you ladies thank you Uti, thank you Mary I think we are going to keep the conversation going it is very important I mean it is a lot parents need to wake up honestly because we have to protect our children now before we go I am sure you follow us across all our social media handles at Weshaw Africa you can interact with us further drop a comment and more importantly follow all our engagements on social media like share and invite your families and friends to watch and follow the conversation if you missed our quote for today here it is again the safety of the people shall be the highest law it is as simple as that we will see you live on Monday as we bring another great conversation to your screen