 I'll give just a little bit of context for the panel and then I'll turn it over to Frank to go through it. The backstory for this panel is really that in travels throughout the WordPress community throughout word camps and meetups, it's become clear to me in my conversations with people off and down, the community, that there is a growing need or awareness of a need to create systems that will enable our children with autism and other challenges to flourish in a workplace. We're now old enough that we have children, we're old enough that where our children are starting to think about careers or maybe they're even trying to get into careers and we're realizing that as technologists, as people who make things, as people who create things, we have an opportunity to do something here. But I think we also, from what I've anecdotally been collecting over conversations of coffee and beer, is that we really have no idea what we're doing. And that's okay. We're aware of that and we're trying to think about that. So what the purpose of this panel is, is really to ask individuals who are already out there doing stuff, some in technology, some in research, to start to maybe help us guide our thinking, signpost some things for us and kind of get our community a little bit more excited and aware of what could happen and to start to think about how we can move that ahead. So with that, I'm going to turn it over to Frank. Hi everybody. Welcome today. Briefly, we're going to start by kind of just giving everybody some introductions to the panel. And we have a few questions that we have for our panel members. And then we'll kind of turn it over to some questions as well from everybody here. So as Liam said, my name is Frank Littaro. I work for a company called New Horizons. So we are a technology training company. And so I've been in the tech space for about 12 years on that training side. And I also have a son who is five who's diagnosed with the autism spectrum. So that's kind of where Liam and I connected. Initially when we sat on the board together, he told me about his son. I thought about my son. And then that kind of flourished into a good relationship. So that's kind of me in a nutshell. And I'll turn it over here to Gaby to introduce herself. Hi. My name is Gaby Robertson Colley. I work for SAP America. SAP launched an autism hiring initiative called Autism at Work back in 2013. And I've been fortunate enough to be a part of the program since then. I lead our social team. It's called the SAP Mentor Group. So I lead our social group for our colleagues with autism who have joined SAP. And I'm also responsible for communications and events for the United States. And just a note, you know, if there's anybody in the room who's on the spectrum, we do use, at SAP we use person-first language. It's the preference of our colleagues. So if you hear me say someone who's on the spectrum or a person with autism, that's out of respect for the wishes of our colleagues. My name is Gloria Mendoza. In 2015, I was a candidate of the Autism at Work program. That led me to be hired onto SAP America in 2015. To this day, I've been continuing to support the program through mentor activities and panels like this. My name is Dan Kobel. I work for Bentley Systems. It's a privately held engineering software company headquartered out in Jackson, Pennsylvania. I manage all their corporate giving and community outreach around the globe. And we have lots of colleagues from numerous research backgrounds, not just within the spectrum, but also with physical and mental disabilities. I'm John Harrington. I'm a assistant professor at the University of Pennsylvania. And I'm in the Child Psychiatry Department, which is based at SHOP. SHOP is where awesome kids still have it. So Penn and SHOP are like kids when it comes to kids stuff. And I'm based at the Center for Autism Research at SHOP. And I'm also a clinical psychologist doing psychotherapy with folks in the spectrum. And then I do research, mostly brain research, neurobiology research. Great. Thank you, John. So with that, I kind of want to toss this up to you, John, based on the research abilities and things that you have come involved with right there at SHOP. How prevalent are autism and autism-related issues for adults in the U.S. for children age 15 and older? So the prevalence rates, we don't normally break them down by age, by virtue of the fact that we think of autism as something that is lifelong. So if you look at the prevalence statistics we have now, this is for those of you who cracked a newspaper in the past 10 years and you've probably heard about how the prevalence rates appear to be going up and up. I think they're up to 1 in 58. Folks have an autism spectrum diagnosis. And again, those data are among kids. Typically, if you're going to get an autism diagnosis, it happens in childhood in kind of a school context. But then, I can't think of autism as something that spans the lifespan. So 58% of 8-year-olds have autism. Those are going to be 18-year-olds 10 years from now. And it does vary by gender. In general, more males have diagnoses of autism. So the actual rating, that's 1 in 37 or 38. I think 38. Males have autism. So to the extent that, in my opinion, unfortunately, we are often talking about professions that have a gender imbalance. If there's sort of a male-dominated profession, then the odds of having someone in the spectrum in the workplace would sort of increase accordingly. So yeah, high number. But of course, imagine we'll touch on this as well. Autism as a category is a pretty weakly defined category and spans a massive range of abilities. And so the kinds of... What we think of as autism is evolving over time, so those rates will probably evolve with them. But the bottom line is it's a pretty criminal thing that if you're in the workplace or in an industry, it's definitely something to think about and consider. And I mean, along that point, I've had this discussion with several people recently. Is it that more environmental factors are happening or is it more research that's being done that the numbers are increasing? So I think a couple of years ago it was 1 in 60, now it's 1 in 58, we're having a spectrum diagnosis. Do you feel that it's something that, you know, it's changing or just we know more about it and we'll have more ability to kind of get a better idea? It's a hot button issue. My own view, which I think probably represents the majority of scientists, is that mostly what's happening is our definition of social behavior changing and that we are more sensitive than we used to be about differences in social connections and social behavior and that's sort of, as a culture, it causes us to be more sensitive, to be more aware of folks that have different abilities along in the social domain and that's sort of driven the change in prevalence as opposed to... I mean, there are interesting debates about whether there may be something, you know, environmentalists, environmentalists that went up, and in general I think most of the scientific community comes down to the side of we've changed as a culture and that's part of why that statistic has changed, the main part of why that statistic has changed. And, you know, kind of poses to, you know, Gabby and, you know, John and everybody as well, but what sort of issues do people with autism and autism-related issues face in the workplace? So now that we see that the numbers are growing, right, there's more and more people that are becoming part of the workplace, what type of issues, you know, are you seeing for that group? I would say getting into the workplace is the biggest challenge. The unemployment rate for people on the spectrum is around between 80 and 85%. So it's getting that foot in the door, that's the primary challenge. I know about at SAP we've seen resumes of people with advanced degrees in math science engineers, you know, people who they just can't get through that interview process because of the social biases that get in the way. There was an article that was published in a paper that said failure to make eye contact or a firm handshake can ruin your chances of getting a job and getting through that interview process. So, you know, we know that eye contact can typically be challenging for people on the spectrum. So imagine your lack of eye contact just really impacting your ability to get through an interview and that's really, really unfortunate. And it's something that we're trying to change at SAP and we've been able to make it then and we're seeing more and more companies come forward who want to start their own autism hiring program. So that's very, very, just really positive and so it's something that I'm on customer calls all the time. Our customers are coming to us saying, how do we do this? We want to start our own programs and I think that's very hopeful. Yeah, you've seen the same at badly. I mean, there are a lot of issues for people coming in. We're a little bit unique in that being probably how we can kind of do what we want and so to the extent that one of our founders' sons has a disability, not one same genre as autism but we are significantly more accepting of everyone and so as far as, I've been at Bentley for 11 years and we've been around for about 34 years or so. So you walk into any of our offices and there's people from every walk of life, every background, every genre and so it's, and being a technology company, the vast majority of our colleagues around the globe sit in front of your screen, are very quiet, they keep themselves, they're very low key, they're the complete opposite of me. They don't do some of the standard social norms and so we look for those people. We want someone that's going to just sit here and perform a task and work and develop and search out a solution to a problem for hours and hours. Those are the best people we have for those people that are dedicated and committed to being focused and so we're kind of strange in that we're almost looking for folks on the spectrum in that aspect and we highly value some of the unique abilities that they have and so we have lots of folks around the globe that we're very blessed with that have specific tasks and skills. Perfect. And Gaby, can you tell us a little bit more about the program, the SEP and maybe elaborate on it, you know how it started, kind of the history we're currently at now. Yeah, sure. So the program started in 2013 in India. It was a very grassroots effort led by the managing director of India at the time who had a son on the spectrum and it was kind of a light bulb moment and he was involved with an organization in India and he said, why aren't we hiring people on the spectrum? So it just kind of took off from there. It went up to our global diversity and inclusion officer and so it started in India and we now are running the program in 12 countries so when I say the program consists of there's a formal structure around the employment of the colleagues that come in through this program that includes training. It includes training for the employee, it includes training for the managers and the buddies who work on the team of the employee and then there's a support circle around that employee in the workplace so they're not just set a drift once you start your job, that you have people within the company that you can come to for help and go grab lunch with or go out and grab some pizza with so that's just the highlights of our program. Which is nice, because again to Dan's point you want to have that individual where their skill set is and use that strength but you also don't want to have that person feel that they're not part of the organization either so I think having that mentorship and that buddy program is awesome because then it allows that individual to kind of assimilate into the company feels that they're part of something much bigger than themselves. Yeah, and that's how Gloria and I have really gotten to know each other was through the mentor program it really just started developing a relationship having lunch together and I think we're, what are we two years later, Gloria or three? It's almost going to be three years for me almost three years you know Gloria's become part of my family so it's just been really an incredible, incredible experience she's my little sis I say sometimes I'm the annoying big sis yeah So Gloria, why did you want to work for a tech company what made you kind of you know, get that interest and what's your job there? I was interested in computers and technology thus why I was interested in majoring in computer science when I was in college and I ended up graduating with a double major in computer science and music which we actually, I just found out about too Gloria has to leave today to go sing you know, which was you're not singing in an opera but you have that opera background, right? Yeah and you know, another question is that you work in a customer facing role there in SAP so what are some common stereotypes about people with autism and social interaction can you share kind of your thoughts on that and how that affects your day to day Well, some of the biggest things that people point out towards people on the spectrum are sort of what was mentioned earlier like failure to make a strong handshake or failure to make eye contact sounding monotone when socializing and other things like that I feel like I'm really breaking the barriers to a lot of these things and I feel like I'm really going far too I've been going on site through a few different places and I've also got to speak at other panels out of state as well so along those lines obviously there's a lot of people with autism who have that STEM degree and significant interest in the tech field but they're maybe unemployed so what would you kind of say to the group of people that are seeking employment any tips, any thoughts? One thing I'll really say is be prepared for a lot of rejection but do not give up there's only one person or somebody to look at you for your skills rather than the way you interact with others and if we go rid of all these biases towards people on the spectrum we get rid of all these problems and make the world a better place Absolutely We really had the chance with our colleagues to almost become a little family and one of our colleagues was our guy and real big lovable guy and we had a chance to sit down so we just casually sat down for like round up talking for like an hour and he had had a long day and he looks at me and he says he starts giggling and he says, cabbie I just can't force myself to make eye contact with you right now so it was just such like this honest like authentic moment and you don't get that stuff in typical corporate America so you know again part of why it's so special to be a part of this program and have friends who are like really really genuine like if you want a good friend find somebody with autism you'll find the most genuine kind authentic people so just really really fortunate I agree I mean it's funny too because you know I've talked to so many people about kind of how I ended up where I was and it was a bouncing ball it didn't you know go the way it was mapped out on paper but I still remember when I was young and probably people in this room you know when we were all younger then our parents probably want us to be doctors or lawyers right and that was kind of that common thing and now when I sit there and I look at my son and I look at the world where we're in I don't want that for him I don't want to do law I don't want to do medicine I want him to actually go into technology and I think that that's really where a lot more people are kind of you know that's their hopes right the tech space is huge it's growing constantly and what's nice and what I've seen over the last couple years is that it's just such a welcoming you know community you know for me personally to be part of the autism community in greater Philadelphia it's I mean it's a huge warm-up I mean I never felt so accepted you know and when I'm attending events for my family with my family for my son just seeing it there's no judgment I feel like a lot of that tech space is kind of you know mirrors that autism family and that autism space as well so you know when you kind of put the two things together it's just a logical you know solution for me personally I've seen so you know Frank one of the words I think we all hear the tech industry like every day at least once a day is innovation and when you think about innovation the people who are innovators are the people who are able to think differently a little bit differently and I think that that's something that we really are able to tap into from the autism community you know I say this is not you know in no way on SAP's part is this a charitable effort we want people who think differently and we want people who can innovate so there's this huge source of talent this pool of talent within the autism community that we're looking for I agree and it's you know and it's something that came up with me over the last few months too is that I was sitting there I was talking to a friend and I was talking about my son again and anybody who knows me knows that that happens readily I'm constantly talking about my little guy he's my world but I was sitting there and I was kind of frustrated because I said I wish he would do this I wish he would do this and he kind of looked at me and my friend said you know you keep trying to get him to come into your world I said you're right and you know just those simple words I went home that night and I just kind of sat down with my son and I said you know I might get in his world let me see what he's doing and kind of put myself there a little bit and he walked me in and it was amazing it was one of the best nights I had in my life just the laughter we both share I mean the smiles we were having it was awesome so you know that's kind of that mentality that we need to almost take fit somebody into our world we need to make it one world we're all together and kind of pull from the brilliant minds that are out there and kind of incorporate this and move past and move on I mean does anybody else in the panel have any additional things they want to share and maybe turn it over to some questions from the audience and such I think it's a point at one thing about the this comes up for me a lot people on the spectrum particularly who are adolescents or young adults this idea of you know who should be whom halfway when it comes to employment and that perspective I often take I firmly believe that part of the reason we're here is that I think as a culture and as people who lead organizations work in organizations they can change their behaviors to be more accommodating I firmly believe that at the same time when the rubber meets road and you're working with someone on the spectrum just like anyone who's trying to trying to clear some hurdle you want to give them tips you want to give them advice to try to help them through it but just I don't know I guess it's just to make the observation that I'm often finding myself on both sides of that at the same time trying to help people even even if it's as primitive as alright maybe you should practice and shake before you go to the situation on one hand but on the other hand doing things like this where we're trying to trying to make decisions about how we can change our own behavior to be more accommodating I think it's like some simple tweaks too right like I mean getting to know Gloria over the years I know that Gloria will take things that I say very literally so I change my communication style just ever so slightly to ensure that our conversation will flow smoothly and that Gloria is going to understand what I use I'm much less sarcastic now than I probably was five years ago I really don't use I don't use I really don't use sarcasm a lot because it doesn't always translate well for people on the spectrum I had people ask me before posted something on Facebook and then I get a message right away is that sarcastic are you being sarcastic yes I am being sarcastic so it really just does in general just making you know if you're a little bit more aware of how you're communicating it makes you a better communicator with everyone not just with people who are on the spectrum so you know it's a learning experience great so I think so one of the reasons I'm at this conference and at this panel in particular is very proactive in nature I have a three old son who's on the spectrum and I'm interested in how programs like SAP and other programs similar to yours sort of help support that individual in the workplace I know you mentioned mentors, I know you mentioned a few other things but in particular with my son he's mostly non-verbal, has an iPad that he uses for speech gets scared at new environments like we had to work with a school district to give this over sister to write on the bus with him to school because he was getting on the bus in tears every morning and he just can't have that so we have to get a special exception for her to write on the bus that's just one example but I'm wondering if you could give a few examples of how your program deals with those kind of issues in the workplace and sort of communicate with that individual's team whether it be the family the medical professionals like I feel right now I'm sort of a middleman constantly from my son between the school professionals the home therapy, the speech the private therapies that we do well I just, I was wondering how you support that in the workplace when he gets over okay, do you want to think that or do you want me to we don't necessarily have anything currently that is explicitly as I think near as verbose as you guys have at SAP you know we have a lot of one-off, one-on-one sorts of things we've had several interns come through that are from I think the university and throughout the spectrum we've had people go alongside with them so just obviously depending on their unique situation I think I'm assuming what you're going to say is probably a one-on-one or an individualized sort of situation so what we have, I almost wish I could draw a picture if you look at two circles that kind of intersect we have the corporate side the enterprise piece of the employee's life at SAP and employment at SAP and then over on the side you have the employee's personal side so the personal life would include the family members the counselor you know if they're seeing a counselor they're seeing a physician in between those circles picture a connecting line there's a job coach so we work with the Arca Philadelphia the job coaches come from the Arca Philadelphia and they're kind of that intermediary between the corporate world and the personal world of the employee so let's say somebody needs some additional support or they're having a rough time maybe you know someone's really kind of going through like an emotional day or we notice that something's a little off, something's not right it would be that job coach that takes it to with the employee's permission of course like they have to fill out a form who can we contact on your behalf it's the job coach that's the liaison between the enterprise business and the family and counselor and physicians okay and then I guess my final question to you and anyone can't answer this but how do you get your child or your family member into a program like SAP like they go through this whole process they maybe go to a community college or whatever and then they get to the point where they need a program like SAP who does a doctor refer patients to you or how does that happen just a little over the years yeah so most of, so okay right now I would say for SAP it's a mix the program has kind of become well known because of some media so a lot of people will contact us directly but also the arc of Philadelphia again they have a program called Neurodiversity in the Workplace their website is www.fillyautismjobs.com they do all the sourcing and management of the resumes for us because it's almost like another business you know we can't keep up with it and they have over 60 years of experience in working with people with disabilities so they have been a key partner in sourcing that talent for us identifying candidates to come through our training program and at the end of the day hopefully get hired at SAP but again, how old is your son? three so this is what my hope is I feel like we are somewhat on the cutting edge of this employment movement my hope is that as I said we are talking to customers two or three times a week who want to start my hope is that when your son is 23 and ready to enter the workforce that the possibilities will be limitless what I can tell you too is just in that space being part of that community there is a lot of outreach CHOP has wonderful programs for outreach other nonprofits things like that that are in the area but they are constantly hosting webinars and things about inclusion in the workplace and transition and I know CHOP's program is amazing for transition from adulthood into whatever so just kind of keep your eyes and ears open I never knew much until we had the diagnosis a few years ago just seeing what is constantly coming out I feel like there is a new program or a new organization or somebody out there when you look at a grocery store there was talk about targets actually having a sensory friendly line in target so it is something where it is going to be constantly evolving as Gaby said there is hope that it is not going to be hidden anymore it is going to be in that forefront and make life easier I think you had a question maybe all of you folks could address this Gaby had mentioned that the difficult problem is getting in the door getting hired and overcoming the hiring managers if you will but let's say that happens what kind of education what kind of eye opening sensitivities can we as business owners or some employees of businesses and heard our employers to integrate because as I think I am hearing you say Gaby it is really changing the mindsets of employers and their understanding to enable greater sensitivity and greater compromise ultimately to make more money I don't mean that in a mean capitalistic way but there is a business decision here and if we can change our minds and allow everybody to flourish maybe folks individually can speak to that what does that look like for your respective organizations or insight from your research I think being an academic I am sort of talking about things that I would recommend to other people to do as opposed to things I would do myself but I think in general step number one is checking your assumptions I think we neuro the term neurotypical is one that has been adopted now to talk about people who are not on the spectrum we neurotypicals walk around with assumptions about regarding social behaviors that we take for granted but we don't have to have them and if you take if you stop and check yourself for a second as a person hiring a team or whatever it doesn't have to be that hard to leave some of those assumptions behind and that's a huge just to sort of educate your place of business or your team about maybe you shouldn't be so fixated on X, Y and Z social cues and see what happens and so just checking flat out checking your assumptions on those things and I think also I think again I'm not I'm not an organizational psychologist and I don't know much about how these organizations work but social capital something that I know happens a lot in organizations and how people have their own social circles and sometimes that provides opportunities to people and if you don't necessarily have the same social cache it might be harder to take advantage of some of this is just soft psychology stuff like getting supportive team members which might lead to different work opportunities that kind of thing in addition to checking your assumptions I think be more proactive about with people on your team who might not necessarily take advantage of those things in the same way be more proactive about providing opportunities to put it sort of collectively provide opportunities for the shy people not just the ones that are loud and who find it easier to go and make contacts within an organization and I guess that's a few steps down the line I guess those were my thoughts I'd say a lot of things like this opportunities and hearing from folks that are family members that are affected allows people like me and then I go back to my colleagues and say hey this is where I did this weekend right because I'm fairly certain nobody else is working today I mean we have colleagues all around the globe so someone's probably doing something at some point but Monday morning we would go hey why don't you do this weekend it's not just I potentially watch the eagles play and who knows where that's going to go hopefully lots of people across the pond but you know I would say hey I was at a work camp and I was at an autism awareness panel I got to speak on your behalf colleague and they go what do you mean you spoke on my behalf but then we have lots of other colleagues around the globe that do similar things I mean they don't have my same role but they do similar outreach for different people of different walks of life and so you know just every one person you get to educate you get to make them understand and kind of like you said earlier bringing folks like myself who are the neurotypical I don't think I'm typical in anything but you know allowing me to come into somebody else's world and realize what it's like and then saying hey I just had this really cool experience I had this really cool interaction it was different but it was so cool it was very enjoyable, it was a great time I met some really cool people you should have learned about them too I feel like it's a lot of times it's got to be a correct for its movement I think it's not small but SAP we still have 3,500 people worldwide so yes we only have a handful of hiring managers but it's not just the hiring managers they need to know it's the colleagues it's this person the person that buys the computers they might need different technology again whether it's on the autism spectrum different abilities they have hey this person might need a touch screen maybe they have a we have a couple of colleagues that have hearing impairments that are completely deaf so we've had to provide adaptive services for those colleagues that are different from the ones that I get and so just understanding that we are all different and we're not all atypical you know across the board it's not the 80-20 role anymore it's the everybody role one thing really cool that's happened I think we've been able to establish this level of comfort within the company we know about our program not everybody does but a lot of employees know about it in the US alone since we started the program and really just within the last few years 14 employees have come forward and disclosed that they're on the spectrum so they did not come into our program but feel that comfort level to come forward and say hey I'm on the spectrum too which has been very very cool you know just like you've kind of laid the foundation there I mean it's a software company yes there's probably a lot of people with autism who work at our company that either number one I'm going to say they might not know they're on the spectrum we have colleagues who very interestingly were not diagnosed until their 40s a few women and I think that sometimes not to get too clinical this is your area but I think women can tend to be under diagnosed so our colleagues so she's a woman and she is deaf so she never received the diagnosis of autism because they were somehow confusing it with her hearing impairment so you know just kind of fascinating stories of wow like what is your what happens to your life when you find out at age 40 something that you're you're on the spectrum like I'm sure it's extremely eye opening and all of a sudden things start to make sense as for our managers at SAP we've had people say you know this person is the best person I've ever had on my team you know hands down best person I've ever had on my team Gloria's manager she is this feisty little woman from Bulgaria and you know she's like I treat Gloria no differently than anyone else you know she's she treats her you know the same as everyone else on the team and I think you guys have a really good relationship right Gloria yeah we do so you know just hearing those kind of things and I you know I think one of those things that really does hit home is the people feeling comfortable enough to say raise their hand and say I'm on the spectrum too and what helps is I know disclosure is a very personal topic but when someone discloses that allows if they come to the office network program and say you know hey I'm on the spectrum I really prefer you to keep this confidential but I want someone to know that kind of opens the door for us to be able to point that employee to services that they might need from the office of vocational rehabilitation or from a job coach so again I know that's a very very personal subject as a topic of disclosure but when we do know when these colleagues come forward when we do know there are some things that we are able to do if the employee is interested to assist them in the workplace we have any additional questions here so quick question is a hiring manager I guess for Philly out-of-the-job.com is that kind of recruiting agency where they have did it just provide you a candidates that are on the spectrum but don't do anything else besides screening or is there a kind of agency that they So I do believe that there is some kind of a fee involved but they're not a recruiting agency so they are a branch of the arc of Philadelphia so they are kind of like a hub for it doesn't have to be just people from SAP but our candidates that come through our training academy also go into their pipeline so you might have folks who have already been trained who are on the bench looking for employment ready to go into the workplace they can also help with creating a program at your company so everything from training interviewing, job coaching they provide all of those services Do we have anything else? We've got some great minds and great programs up here so please feel free to ask anything to us As a community of technologists the WordPress community really does have a global reach the software gods If you could ask one thing of the WordPress community as it relates to people with autism in the workplace what would that be? That's a big question and you don't necessarily tackle some angle of that What would you ask of us? Me, I would say kind of along the lines don't be shy so don't hide in that tech space in that WordPress community and kind of be out there and come forward and help us grow learn more about what you're dealing with and how we can all work together better in a sense I think we have to attack this unemployment number and I think that everybody can do their part whether you own a bakery or whether you own a franchise or you're in a tech company or you own a winery everybody can do their part to make that number go down but that's what I would say to the WordPress community if you have the opportunity if you can spread the word to tech companies and say other companies are doing this how about you? I think if everybody steps up to the plate by the time I think things will change faster than that but there will be a job leading for your son I still want to answer that question I would say my only thing is I'm going to steal your thunder and say that have those folks in the WordPress community to check their assumptions on every one especially when we're talking about the digital platform that's out there you really don't know who's on the other side of that screen yes in this forum we can see each other but there's still probably assumptions that are happening even here in this room by both sides of the panel but just be mindful of that we're just talking about human beings and so regardless of what special skills they do or don't have they still have certain needs wants and desires that need to be met somehow and so we can definitely work together to achieve that crushing that number would be huge I mean there's so many parents I've worked with who work so hard to try to create opportunities for their kids and try to get them to launch into the world and it's so hard for them and I've got to feel for that I mean it's it would be huge to try to be more proactive about being inclusive it would be huge it's my mission if I win the Powerwall I'll do something I promise if I win the Powerwall I will do something no it's again tonight right I'm waiting for them to call my phone so you have a follow up it's one of the organizers who filled out the word press meetups are there anything we can do to make it more accessible to persons with autism when we're planning these gatherings and how they're formulated with smaller groups to be more accessible or finding different techniques that would be easier and more inviting again and I mean it's something that I've personally seen a lot more of and I've also tried to help is that there are a lot more inclusion programs so even things as simple as you know hay rides right so we're movies or whatever that we kind of just think like okay yeah it's a simple thing it's not necessarily a simple thing for somebody in fact you know with autism so luckily there are a lot of non-profits or a lot of you know organizations that are starting to do that you know I just took my son on a hay ride but neither in the morning I think it was a cold you know morning but it was quieter it wasn't necessarily open to the public right so it allowed people that needed that the ability to kind of you know get in there and enjoy some things that the rest of the world did so you know from that standpoint you know absolutely if you can you know maybe have a sensory friendly room or a quiet room right or just some of the simple things I mean we kind of don't necessarily think about when planning you know events is that is just kind of having that inclusion mindset and knowing what can be done and you know if there are any special needs or things like that you know kind of open that up quiet room is always a good idea we incorporate the quiet room into a lot of our holiday party at SAP is totally crazy feel free to come on down this winter but it's sensory it is like sensory overload city so we have like a quiet room where everybody can can hang out and people do make use of it but I would say I was really really impressed with the color-coded stickers I think they're a great idea I've seen them at all our conferences and I think I mean that's just a really I think very incredibly thoughtful and forward thinking gesture so you know there's a interesting dilemma because I think talking about checking assumptions I mean the whole act of looking for a job at some level you might argue is a social behavior and it's a it's funny because I'm here thinking about people I work with who are extremely technically skilled who would be who would do very well with organizations but they're not necessarily the kind of people who go beat the bushes looking for a job and it's I mean it's an interesting again I think you're all in the space of dealing with that much more directly than I am but it's you know trying to figure out how to how to find those folks on the spectrum who have phenomenal skill sets but aren't necessarily they're not banging at your door they're not that's I mean that's solving that problem with strengthening is important it's an observation again we have stacks and stacks that petitions, businesses, chemists engineers so that's phillyoffsalsomjobs.com they're doing again they have all the resumes for anyone in the Philadelphia area or you don't even have to be in the Philadelphia area they are the ones sourcing all the candidates and have just incredible incredible talent pool that's out there and and waiting and looking for positions one final question or something that I discovered is one piece missing from this panel it's great and all that the one question that I have in my head that I haven't heard anything on yet is what is WordPress as a platform plug-in vendor or steam vendors what is being done at that level of the community as a WordPress developer freelance of myself I'm just wondering what is being done at that level of the WordPress community to make the WordPress environment the back end WordPress is a tool to use in the workplace better for individuals with autism and other disabilities I mean Liam do you? There's a number over here that can address that I think in recent years there's been a huge emphasis on accessibility within the WordPress software itself the core itself and so whether it's autism or other challenges that people have that continues to be a real priority there's an entire team there's a community team and a work camp team there's an accessibility team that has global memberships where they're bringing different perspectives there's teams that translate so it's not just keeping everything in English but it's moving into other languages and addressing challenges there I think from a what a zealot project conversations like this, panels like this where we're talking about it more openly are going to move it forward certainly looking to tech companies like SAP and relying on researchers like John and his colleagues at CHOP and inviting them into our community to say what do you know and how can we help are some of the things that we're doing but I think in this violent personal experience as a community WordPress is only 15 years old and it's awkward the community isn't that old they kind of came up from that and I'm one of the older people in the community certainly our older the children, people now that kind of were really early leaders they're having children and their children are 5, 10, 15 and I think that's where I'm sensing within the community this is something we now need to pay attention to because you found out when your son was diagnosed my son has sensory processes I found out when he was diagnosed with that so we get attached to it we learn about it and care about it when it hits home and I think as a community it started to hit home and Alex? I just want to add to that as well as you mentioned earlier WordPress currently powers about a third of the unit and what that means is that there are all sorts of job opportunities that can take any shape or form I work for a company and people fully distribute it so everybody works from wherever they live in their own home with whatever tools that they need but if people are doing everything marketing, I do fraud prevention everybody has their own thing that they do but I think that with open source and a project like WordPress we'll see a change within the way that people work because you can contribute from anywhere a location that makes it comfortable so I think WordPress is contributing in that way awesome Just to piggyback off of what you said because I work for the same company we do have coworkers with autism who get to work from a place of comfort wherever they want to work at any pace they want to work for the most part so you're not, it's these remote job opportunities between more and more prevalent and they're a great tool for different use cases I want to thank Al for being here and thank everybody for your questions I should be able to spend a couple minutes here so if there's any additional questions feel free to pop up but thank you all thank you