 Today we're going to continue the morning presentations with a session on how Antarctica in the Southern Ocean affect global climate and ocean circulation and another session on southern high latitude biota and ecosystems and a final session on how a shifting ice sheet might affect sedimentation and biogeochemical cycles. In the afternoon we're going to have two breakout sessions. The first is a repeat of yesterday's format where the discussions will be session specific and focused on identifying science priorities and capabilities and a final interdisciplinary breakout room that will be more free-flowing discussion about the differences and commonalities between necessary capabilities that each session has identified and we might have a couple of tweaks to that so stand by. We're now going to begin with session four. Ted Maxim will be moderating the session and if all presenters for session four could please come sit on stage that would be great so with that I'll hand it over to Ted. All right thank you Paula. So our first speaker for this session oh sorry this session is focused on the interaction between Antarctica and the Southern Ocean and global climate and ocean circulation. Our first speaker for this session is Sarah Perky. Sarah is an assistant professor at Scripps Institution of Oceanography at UC San Diego. Well first I can start by thanking the organizers for having me today and today I get to introduce this section here talking about Antarctica and the Southern Ocean and the effects it has on global climate and ocean circulation. There it goes. Okay so to start off when we're thinking about the role that the Southern Ocean plays we have to start with this introductory slide looking at the meridional overturning circulation. I like this one by Tali et al from 2013 that really puts Antarctica in the center because Antarctica and the Southern Ocean play a really key role in the north to south transport of heat and other ocean properties throughout the global ocean and it's really important to note that most of the global ocean below 1,000 meters is going to be ventilated in the Southern Ocean and it really plays a key role in the overall ability for the atmosphere and ocean to communicate with each other. So in this figure it has Antarctica in the middle and it shows some of the key pathways that Antarctica is able to get water from the surface, communication with the atmosphere and then back into the deep ocean. And really a key point from this talk is to think about how the Southern Ocean and Antarctica mediates the strength of this meridional overturning circulation and to do that I want to focus on two key regions. One is on the continental shelf and looking at the interaction between the ocean ice, bathymetry and atmosphere and the second one is within the ACC looking at the role that the overturning circulation plays in this larger formation of intermediate waters in the upwelling of deep waters. So going to the Antarctic shelf we've seen versions of this figure before but I want to point out some key features. So first this region is extremely key to climate because of reasons that we've already heard which is it can control the rate that we get this warm deep water which is shown in red there up onto the shelf in close to the glaciers and therefore driving accelerating or decelerating the rate of melting that we see of the glacial ice. But in addition to that it plays a key role in setting the quantity of sea ice and the export rates and it also plays a really key role in setting the rate of deep water formation. And so in this figure we see that here I also want to point out that this is a very kind of dynamic it's a very complicated and it's a very coupled system where we have to think about the wind forcing. We have to think about the sea ice production and transport which is a non-trivial question that I think is still a very active area of research. We have to think about the slope exchange which again is a complicated system where we have to think about many different time scales all the way down to the tidal time scales and mixing processes. And then we have to think about the ocean ice interaction at the front which is also kind of emerging physics that we're trying to understand. And then just to point out we have talked a little bit about slides or slow. Advance I guess there's some animation sorry about that. When we think about again going back to the Antarctic bottom water formation this water that is being exported is the largest volume wise of water being produced in the global ocean and this is just a figure by Johnson and I was showing the spatial extent here showing depth range that that water primarily fills so throughout most of the ocean it's going to be kind of two to four thousand to four thousand meters. And really the data challenges here is that it's a very coupled system it's a harsh environment and the dynamics are very complicated. And the second reason region that I wanted to kind of introduce is looking at the dynamics across the ACC. So in the Southern Ocean we have one of the strongest currents in the world that goes all the way around the continent. And here the dynamics are primarily driven by the wind driven circulation. And so what that's shown is these yellow arrows on the top and then I've put some dots on above showing the meridional variation in the wind straight. And so a little physical oceanography 101 because I know we're an interdisciplinary group. But here what matters is actually the variation going from the strongest wind source in the middle. As we move north it gets a little bit less and because of the Coriolis force that's going to end up in water converging and downwelling into the south. We're going to have a decrease in the wind straight which is going to allow for really strong ebb and upwelling. And that is what really allows this pathway of carbon coming from the deep ocean going to the surface. And then also the formation of the intermediate waters to the north which allows us to sequest anthropogenic heat into the deep ocean. And kind of the data challenges here is that it's somewhat remote in the Southern Ocean and again really large in small spatial scales matter. So I think in the last decade it's become increasingly clear that even on the sub meso scale plays a really key role in setting the strength of this overturing circulation. So now moving into observations and kind of what I think we need moving forward. So I divided this into two categories. The first one thinking about what we need to monitor the Southern Ocean heat and carbon. And really the scientific question here is what is the net ocean heat tank heat uptake in carbon sink that's coming from the Southern Ocean. And to do this what we really need is climate quality data which means we really care about the highest accuracy. We need sustained observations because this is a decadal signal. And to do this we're going to need a combination of autonomous and high quality ship based observations. And so what's shown on the right is the observational network that we primarily use right now to monitor ocean heat and carbon uptake which is a combination of Argo floats and the ghost ship repeat hydrography which is in lines. And for the most part I think we have a pretty good start on this system we just need to continue and expand it into the future. And so what's shown here in what the last two decades of Argo data has shown us is that this other notion plays a very key role in both of these processes. So on the top is showing the global trend in ocean heat content from Argo. And then on the right is showing the zonal mean. And what we can see is that these two key regions kind of south of 30 play a substantial role in the net uptake of heat that the ocean is able to take up. And so again just to remind everybody the oceans take up over 90% of the net anthropogenic warming that we've seen. And so when we talk about global warming we're actually talking about ocean warming and that ocean warming is going into this other notion. And so it in terms of global climate we really need to be able to monitor the signal this how much heat is going south of 30 degrees south into the ocean. And then when we look at the deep ocean again going back to the Antarctic bottom water at the moment over the past couple of decades we're mainly monitoring that from ship-based hydrography. And that is the figure that you see on the left. And so while it's smaller in the surface ocean still a fair amount of heat is going into the southern ocean due to changes that we're seeing around the southern ocean. And just to point out that while the last couple of decades we've looked at repeat hydrography the figure on the right is from Johnson at all 2019 and he was using deep argo data in the Brazil basin to start to monitor changes from the from autonomous platforms. And just to remind myself this is a picture of a CTD to kind of point out that this program deep argo is not independent of ships quite yet we still need it. And then finally last but not least I've been showing trends but to kind of understand the dynamics here we really need to know the year-to-year variability so this is showing what we can do with argo based products is actually look at the year-to-year variability in ocean heat content. And then moving on to carbon recently we have started putting autonomous pH sensors on floats and this is results from the SOCOM array which is showing both ship-based estimates of carbon flexes in the background and then the float data as those small red circles. And what's being shown here is first of all there's a huge gradient from south to north of carbon flux from the ocean to the atmosphere and all those up welling regions it's going to control the amount of old water that's reaching the surface allowing for carbon outgassing. And then north is going to be where you're having those waters being formed and it's allowing for the subduction of water and the uptake of anthropogenic heat or anthropogenic carbon. And it's just important to point out that the background signal here is huge and so when we're talking about the anthropogenic signal it's a really small deviation of the background circulation that we still need to understand better. And also the difference between the left and the right is the summer and the winter and it points out that the winter processes here are very key and at the moment it's it's still very difficult to get ships into the ice zone in the winter. And again just to point out while I am focusing a little bit on autonomous measurements here these especially the ocean chemistry is not decoupled from ship-based observations. In order to make these estimates from the floats we're only measuring one of the carbon parameters we need to estimate at least one of the other ones and these are coming from empirical relationships that we're still finding from ship-based data so it's very key that we get into the ice zone during winter. And so last looking at what I did talk about is what I think we're doing well and that we need to continue into the future which is monitoring ocean heat and carbon. I think the real questions and where we're going in the future is to understand the mechanisms that are controlling the MOC in this rate flux. In here going back to these pictures it's talking about what are the level levers here? What allows this to be stronger or weaker and how do each of these parts of the system kind of play into that? And so the questions here are fundamentally what are the variabilities of the circulation? In here circulation means this meridional return circulation the strength of the AC and the strength of the various fronts and currents surrounding Antarctica that we need to understand. And we need this to really understand what the heat fluxes are onto the shelf and its variability and think about the variability in the deep water formation and think about the freshwater budget. And here really the challenge is being the fact that it really does span very large scales it's seasonal dependent and it's extreme environment and it's a very coupled system. And so my last slide here is just thinking about what we what I think we need in the future. And so yesterday we heard a lot about kind of the needs of the shelf and adjacent regions and it is a key region obviously and we heard over and over again that we need to get under the ice and we need to get under the ice in the winter so that's not new. I do want to think about or present to this group to think about the fact that it is really a coupled system. And so when we're designing our observational network we need to be able to resolve all of the pieces together. And so in the exercise yesterday for example we're thinking about prioritizing what we need to observe but it is a key that kind of all of those pieces come together and then we understand that we're not going to get the ocean heat flux correctly without understanding the front slope structure or the dynamics under the shelf and the bathymetry and the sea ice and the wind. And so we should think about that when designing our observational network. I also put hydrography on here because we didn't hear that much about hydrography there's still a lot of things that we need to look at from ship based observations ocean tracers being one of them so the figure on the right is some recent work looking at CFC data which is telling us kind of when how water is ventilated throughout the global ocean and using this we can also kind of look at the changes in circulation and we need to extend ARGO so the figure on the bottom is just showing some work we did with the deep ARGO under ice in the winter showing kind of the evolution in how the Antarctic bottom water is moving. And what we're going to hear about here through the panelists is kind of what we need to do looking at past climates to inform us about our current climate and just thinking a plug that when we're thinking about observations we also think about the modeling community and how it's going to help us answer these questions. All right thank you Sarah we're going to we have three minutes for questions which we'll read up from Slido. First question what observations can not be completed using autonomous systems and must be done from ship based surveys in the future would it be possible that all measurements all key measurements in this vein could be done with autonomous platforms? That is a great question so I try to touch on that a little bit I think first off no I don't see a future where autonomous vehicles are going to ever be decoupled from ships and that we're not going to need that ship grounding truth even for the things we can measure and I say that from this climate perspective I think as climate scientists when we're looking at things like ocean heat uptake and carbon we nowadays have the world looking at this these need to be very precise we need redundancies in the system and we need climate quality so I work in the sensor community the sensors are getting better every day but there are always problems with them they drift and we just you are always going to need that grounding truth that's going to come from people on ship taking the measurements and then finally I think there are a lot of things that we don't measure that are going to be very very challenging to measure autonomously tracers isotopes we're talking about glacier melt you need to look at at different variations and isotopes can tell you about stuff like that again with the carbon system until we have a really functioning alkalinity sensor we're going to definitely need to continue to get that carbon carbon budget from from a combination of autonomous and ship base thank you next question how to promote the role of advanced technologies against ocean acidification and neutrification and increase the key role of science and technology innovations I mean I think that there is investment just like we are investing in our ships because of how the questions that we're looking at in the future we need to be investing both in autonomous sensors and in ships simultaneously so the technology is coming along but it's coming along through the community investing a lot of time in development work and working closely with engineers and actually other disciplines across the board who are also trying to measure similar things in other regimes great thank you that was the last question we had on slido all right so our we're going to do a series of flash talks five minute flash talks our first flash talk is going to be given by ed brook ed is a university distinguished professor in the college of earth ocean and atmospheric science at organ state university okay hi everybody can let me know if you can't hear me um i think you're muted still not muted on my end i think you can hear me now yes yes okay thank you um yeah i'm ed brook i'm a professor in earth ocean atmospheric sciences at osu i'm also the director of a new entity it's an nsf science and technology center called the center for oldest ice exploration which is attempting to extend the length of the ice court record um one of the two emissaries from the ice core community at this meeting you heard from peter neff um yesterday so i'm not going to talk today about work that we would do um uh directly using a ship but i would like to talk about the intersection of deep ice coring research and what's happening in the near future uh with um paleo oceanography and this in the southern ocean the context here is the what we call the deep ice core records not necessarily a well-defined term but um referring to to data that go back through the last um partial maximum and in many cases much much further and there are a number of such cores most of them are shown on the map um that you see on the left-hand side and um ice cores are important in this context because they are sitting on the continent receiving information that's influenced by things that happen in the southern ocean of course and they have certain advantages of very high accumulation rates very accurate chronologies but of course have the disadvantage of being far south on the continent and not certainly not seeing everything of course another cheap advantage of the ice core record is it tells us about the greenhouse gas history which is a lot of what i'll be talking about here um there are two sort of big directions in the ice core community right now um and uh i'll talk a little bit about both of those for this context um one of them is trying to understand the history of waste collapse during the last interglacial period with the idea that that'll tell us something about the sensitivity of waste of future warming for a number of projects that are directed towards that problem one is uh on this map here sky train ice rise recently completed by the british Antarctic survey another plan by the united states is where that red dot is which is a Hercules dome project hopefully drilled in the near future the idea is to sort of look in the regions around waste to see if there's evidence for waste collapse but of course uh if it did collapse we're not going to drill into ice that's there and so we're going to see sort of an indirect record of what was happening and and clearly uh understanding the history of waste from the ocean is is a very very central problem for climate science the other direction that the ice core community is going now is trying to extend the record beyond the 800 000 year limit of the dome c ice core the european project um at dome c and um see if my animation arrows work here yeah okay so the existing continuous ice core record goes back 800 000 years uh through most of the 100 k world but there's intense interest in extending this further to get back through the mid-pliceness transition and into the 40k world to understand what Antarctica was doing during that time period and um there are several international efforts directed at trying to find a place in Antarctica that can go back uh in that that far i think we'll get there uh cold x the center i'm directing is one of those efforts um and there is another important project in europe and in australia going forward in that direction so we're going to be quite interested in um uh paleo oceanographic records that covered that time period and then we're also finding older ice in fact we have ice that back to about four million years um in uh trapped in the mountain ranges in a place called ellen hills in Antarctica and we're exploring other places like that that won't be continuous but we're getting snapshots of climate that go back that far and so understanding this other notion of those timescales uh will certainly bring connections to that world i'd like to go to the next slide if i can i'm having trouble advancing okay so i only have a minute or so left i approached the question here uh with a table um to try to squeeze a lot of information in basically ice cores are telling us a lot of things about biogeochemistry climate and ecclesiology the types of things that sarah talked about in the modern world telling us about the greenhouse gas history telling us about changes in biogeochemistry of iron for example that might influence ocean productivity telling us maybe about changes in sea ice through tracers like sodium in the ice but we need to understand the ocean context for all of these records because we're only seeing part of the system obviously and so it really getting a four-dimensional picture of the southern ocean biogeochemistry is key getting a complete picture of the history of the carbon budget around the southern ocean is key ice cores are also telling us a lot about climate and ecclesiology on the continent and off the continent we now have records of mean ocean temperature from noble gas ratios and trapped air which gets to things sarah was talking about ocean heat content we have very good data now about variability in temperature and accumulation across the ice sheet on uh around a hundred thousand year timescale which leads to questions about moisture transport and what controls stable isotopes in the atmosphere what controls the linkages between climate at high latitudes uh and the the rest of the climate system we can see things about ice dynamics from ice cores peter neff talked about this we need to understand how what we see it on the land is interacting with what's happening in the ocean and then just a circle back to what i was talking about earlier we really hope that we can extend the detailed ice for record back in time and uh getting a full picture of what's happening needs we also need to get detailed sediment records that go back over that time period okay i'll stop there uh hopefully it info over too long all right thank you ed um so we're going to save our questions for the end of the flash talks our next talk is by alexander howman alex is a research group leader at the alfred vegner institute at helmholtz center for polar and marines research in germany just a reminder while we're getting alexander slides up please you slide out of the questions in all right i hope you can hear me all fine hi everyone thanks tat for the introduction so i was tasked with somehow my slides are moving not sure what is happening so i was tasked with how does the southern ocean mediate fluxes of heat carbon between the continent the ocean and the atmosphere and the answer to this question might actually be quite simple that you say it's through the ocean circulation um and mixing that the southern oceans plays such a crucial role and this is mainly because in the southern ocean roughly it's estimated that roughly about 80 percent of all deep waters return to the surface and then they're circulated around the continent and while doing this they actually release um co2 and heat to the atmosphere and in the first instance and then as you go further north and these waters are modified um they take up anthropogenic heat and carbon and it's estimated that it's about 13 percent of all anthropogenic co2 missions that go into the southern ocean and about 68 percent of the entire excess heat and if you put a number on this actually with with current um trade values of of carbon um this is many trillions of dollars that we are talking about here and um through this process the southern ocean slows down global warming um substantially and the other important process here is that um it loses heat towards the continent and we have heard a lot about this yesterday and also today and that um interacts of course with the melting ice around Antarctica and contributes to sea level um so this seems to be a pretty clear picture um but actually if we look at this in detail um we have huge uncertainties in these fluxes and when we build budgets we are still sometimes debating the sign of the flux in certain regions and and that's a huge issue because if we really want to understand the future of climate change globally we have to understand the southern ocean heat and carbon budgets and most of the uncertainty I would argue lies here in this in this outgassing and and heat release fluxes that are in the area south of the ACC and and maybe not so much in the anthropogenic uptake um so when we talk about these budgets what I was saying we have made huge advances in the last couple of years and decades especially with with the new capabilities that we have with the Socoma biogeochemical argofroads and um in this paper here you can clearly see where we are or what is the range of fluxes we are talking about in terms of uncertainties so depending on what product you're using um we are really here having a huge uncertainty and this will be fundamental to resolve this issue in the coming decades and for this Sarah already said that that we really have it's critical that we sustain the biogeochemical argo array in the first place but also at the same time um um sustain shipboard measurements to to know um what size of flux we are talking about and to do proper budgets um we can only do by by the combination of these um data sets we also have to really um sustain the repeat hydrographic sections and we also we have to reassess them actually and for this I strongly argue for international coordination um that needs to be strengthened to get a better circumpolar understanding especially in winter time um also the second point that I want to make is that we have to really close this gap that we have between observations and models so we can really see here in the global carbon budget that there is a huge mismatch between the models and the data in the southern ocean and we really have to um strengthen the effort and prioritize data that helps us to improve models and parametrizations of those and we also have to strengthen observations in so-called blind spots and really one of these blind spots is under the sea ice in winter and this is really where this transformation happens between deep waters that come up the surface and are transformed to winter waters and throughout this process um we get a ventilation of of CO2 to the atmosphere and we really have to focus on this um processes involved in this ventilation process if we want to further understand this um the second blind spot so to say is really the coastal region and we also have heard about this a lot yesterday and have to understand how the heat is being transported from the open ocean to the coast and how the freshwater that's released from the undarked continent is leaving um the coastal region and and for this we have to get high quality data of of salinity but also of tracer observations such as isotopes or noble gases and have to focus on those to better understand how the impact of melting ice in undarked affects the ocean circulation and therefore affects the freshwater budget and the carbon and heat budgets so with this um I think I'm over my time already so I'm happy to answer questions later thank you thank you Alex so our next speaker is Amelia Shevnel Amelia is an associate professor of geological oceanography at University of South Florida College of Marine Science okay sorry for the delay um thank you guys for inviting me um I just really wanted to talk about and emphasize the importance of paleo-oceanography and paleo records in our sort of understanding of the evolution of Antarctica's system and being able to put into context the observations that we are making today and to see if these observations suggest that the system is outside the span of natural variability or within and so much of what we know about Antarctica's cryosphere evolution through time is really inferred from the deep sea records and so here is a record of oxygen isotopes in the deep sea from the Cretaceous all the way through to the present and then these are the RCPs from ICP showing where we might go in the future and what we can see is that we have a general cooling trend of 12 degrees over the last 65 million years as well as periods of time where we have rapid ice growth at the Eoceno-Ligocene boundary where we think we have the onset of east Antarctic ice in the middle Miocene where we might have the onset of west Antarctic ice and then this period of time here more towards the present where we both have both northern hemisphere ice and southern hemisphere ice and we can't distinguish between these two and in the isotope record and what we think drives these long-term climate trends are either and or changes in atmospheric CO2 or tectonic changes but deep sea sediments really can't tell us where the ice grew and when how the continental ice how the continental shelf developed around Antarctica that enables the ice sheet to grow towards the ocean we don't know much about past ice extent we don't know much about past retreat rates unless we have these southern ocean ice proximal sediments that contain records of these past ice ocean interactions we are now able to generate ocean temperature records in the past that enable us to understand that temperature at the ice margin we also are able to get sea ice extent and climate teleconnections and one of the big things this is a map of the ice or the sediment cords around Antarctica as well as drill cores and what we've really learned in the past couple of years is that East Antarctica is a lot more sensitive than we imagined in the past and there's about 19.2 meters of sea level equivalent ice in these marine-based basins around East Antarctica so I want to walk you through some successes that we've had in the long-term record so this is a piston coring and geophysical survey record from offshore of Tottenglacier and what we were able to do is really use these high resolution geophysical records to show us and tell us about ice sheet evolution and we took piston cores and were able to primarily date those and tell us what we were seeing in the sediment record what we need to do is we need to drill this area next to see how the ice has evolved through time we also have been able to do this on the continental shelf this is IDP expectation 374 where we were able to generate an ocean temperature record through the miocene climatic optimum which is one of the warm periods of time where we expect that we're going in the future and what we're able to see is that we actually have warming before ice expansion and this is a record of the sediment showing that ice expansion over a warm period and so the next steps there that we really need to synthesize records from the terrestrial to the deep sea to understand how ice sheets evolved in the Ross Sea area over the past 14 million years we also have been able to reconstruct Holocene temperatures through time and really high resolution comparable to the ice core records and this is a record of sea surface temperature from Palmer deep that was one of the first sea surface temperature records around Antarctica we have many other ongoing records that we're preparing in the Holocene that give different perspectives on how different catchments evolved through time we can only do this from ships and we have several science priorities including really understanding East Antarctica at the catchment scale understanding past ice retreat rates as well as being able to really date these records well what do we need to do this we actually need a ship to do everything that I've just proposed to access East Antarctica we need a longer expedition duration we need heavy ice breaking we really need to be able to hold station and we need to generate high resolution geophysical records as well as some sort of geotechnical drilling capability and what I want to emphasize is to do this we don't need a moon cool we can do this over the side or we can do this with the sea floor drilling system and we need space in the ship that we can use to do shipboard core processing and so to end I really wanted to stress that we really need a paleo-schnographic paleo climate component integrated into all of these large interdisciplinary programs just like the IPCC did in this rendition because we need to place the ongoing changes in temporal context so thank you very much I'm over my time right thank you Amelia so our last speaker for this session is Sharon Stammerjohn Sharon's a senior research associate at the Institute of Arctic and Alpine Research at the University of Colorado in Boulder thank you so we're going to zoom back to the present more or less last 40 years to 100 years this is fabulous right to have this array of talks in one session so I'm going to talk about Antarctic sea ice variability the long-term trends long-term and quotes and coastal exposure what is most amazing right now right now is that we are now going into our seventh year of record low Antarctic sea ice and there's been a shift as you can see in this very beautiful figure by Alex Howman and it's soon to be submitted so hold on your hats but he's showing here that you have the monthly anomalies and we've had this overall increase in sea ice extent up until about 2015 during the satellite era and then suddenly we shifted to record low what else is very remarkable about this transition is that we increased an anomaly persistence and variance and we then shifted quite dramatically we don't know why we can point to atmospheric circulation anomalies for certain you know events and the anomaly and the anomalies that appeared in 2016 going forward but the persistence is what has us flummoxed and it points to the ocean we can put this into a longer-term perspective recently available reconstruction this is an observational based reconstruction made by Ryan Folk and colleagues just came out recently and this is pure gold for us in the sea ice community because now we can see you know beyond this satellite record and what's remarkable to me is what I see in this record is this underlying trend it's kind of what the global climate models are suggesting there's a lot of issues there so a lot of uncertainty this is a pretty robust observational based reconstruction is showing winter sea ice extent and this now six to seven year period of record low sea ice is kind of in line with that long-term trend so it kind of begs the question what was happening during the most in the satellite era that we've been trying to figure out well we have a pretty good idea and a lot of that's the atmosphere but I'm going to show you first the spatial map just to contrast because this I actually highlights another really important thing that has changed and so you're looking at ice season duration anomalies that's for 2014 on the left blue means longer ice seasons and in 2022 red means shorter ice seasons by up to three four months I mean it's kind of remarkable anomalies but they're also more or less circumpolarly wide distributed which is very unusual over the satellite record the satellite record normally shows very high seasonal and regional variability and so again this transition from going to record high to record low and it being a persistent it's also not just persistent in time but it seems spatially persistent so again pointing to the ocean we also have another new metric that just came out this is uh hill read and rob massam looking at coastal exposure and so this is a map showing the trends of the satellite air blue means longer exposure and so here we have all west Antarctica that's trending towards longer and longer exposures to wind and waves and I could say that for the last year or two we've also been at a low for fast ice and at a record high of coastal exposure everywhere not just west Antarctica so winds are the conspicuous drivers right and we've known this and it really imprints on the regional and seasonal variability this is a map just showing correlations between winds and ice motion also related to CS concentration changes this this is very this is very obvious it's very expected we have the southern ocean that's exposed to the highest wind and waves on the planet and yet we're going to see very strong variability associated with the atmospheric circulation but you know what explains this transition that we've just experienced from record high to record low that's in line to the background you know decreasing trend it points to the ocean once more but we don't know really what those ocean changes are we can infer them we can use our models and but we lack the data and so we really need especially and this is just preaching to the choir but we need the ocean observations within the sea ice zone on the continental shelf at the coast because those it's the ocean that's driving the changes in CS production and thickness changes and the other thing we don't know very much about are thickness changes so we're still trying we have experts in this room who are improving that metric derived from satellite data it's challenging to measure that in the field our ice mass bounce boos don't last very long so it's it's definitely a challenge that we need to improve and of course the snow on sea ice is a problem so overarching questions for the sea ice community for the ice ocean atmosphere community we're still trying to disentangle thermodynamic from dynamical sea ice processes and the horizontal vertical fluxes of heat fresh water gasses nutrients alex just gave us a beautiful rundown of all the challenges and gaps that we need to address there and of course there's the very strong ice ocean seasonal feedbacks too that could be playing into what we're seeing currently so all these priorities and near-term needs have all been said before but again we need those ocean observations in the sea ice zone during winter especially on the shelves near the coast we really need sustained observations actually in coastal areas which are often very difficult to access because they're clogged with iceberg thick sea ice and yet that's that's really a critical boundary and it's changing really fast so we have a very coupled atmosphere ocean ice system and in order to really properly study that and improve our models and improve our predictability we actually really need more multi platform multidisciplinary process studies and so we're combining ships satellite autonomous observations together with data mobile synthesis we're starting to do that and it's it's remarkable and just this gathering of the community you know is also headed in that direction so the challenge i'm not going to repeat these because we've all heard them but if i could just take one more slide i just want to emphasize that this coastal access is really important and so this is a map of the modus showing the sea ice distributions we were there many of us in this room were there last austral summer and we were trying to get there near the thwates near the eastern ommerson and we couldn't and this was a record low summer sea ice year it had all blown into this particular area it clogged it we couldn't get to it the koreans were there and they were able to actually access some ice shelf areas and deploy drilling rigs and also deploy xctd's from helicopter into these critical zones that if we'd had that capability we would have been tagging seals would have been a remarkable time series over in the eastern ommerson and we would have been deploying xctd's we would have been doing what we really needed to do we gathered an amazing data set so no problem with that but i'm just saying that even in a record low sea ice year we still need access to the coast and the only way i know how to do that is with helicopters thank you all right thank you so we now have 10 minutes for questions that will read coming in from slido all right first question and this is a general does the existing arv as in vision contain the capabilities for making the shipborn oceanographic or sorry shipborn ocean geochemistry measurements as needed anyone want to jump in or maybe alex if he's still on zoom yeah i'm still here um i mean there is one thing i want to say to that so i think um we we are definitely capable of doing much more um um analysis from from shipboard measurements than than we are from from autonomous platform so far so we still need those for for geochemical analysis for sure and but one thing we shouldn't forget i mean it's important to to get the access to the ice and have a strong ship that can break through the ice it's it's no doubt but we also have to consider that we are working in an environment where often the work we do is limited by the weather and the waves and sometimes we are not able to work while we are at sea because um it's just not doable and so we have to also have a ship that you know allows to deploy instruments in very rough conditions um and that keeps as stable as possible also for people to do their work so this this is something that we have to consider especially if we go into the winter season where where storms are much more frequent that's something i wanted to add here as well thank you any other comments about that question right next question this one is for Sharon it says you touched on this but the recent sea ice loss extends about as long as the sea ice growth of the 2000s any sense that we're just entering an era of larger magnitude decadal variations or do you expect sea ice loss trend to continue can you hear me yeah it's it's always on oh it's always on would have been good to know huh so stay tuned for alex's paper soon to be submitted he's exploring that question it is it's the challenge it's always been the challenge there's such there's so much variability and and the Antarctic sea ice is so sensitive to that variability if you want one metric in the southern ocean that's going to show you the greatest amount of variability it's Antarctic sea ice because it's it's highly sensitive to the atmospheric forcing and ocean forcing so and we know we have very strong teleconnections from the tropics and even the northern hemisphere so we have we'd have no naturally we have a lot of decadal variability multi and we have a lot of inter annual variability with and so we need really the ocean data we need time series in order to to address that question but I I think Alex is going to be making some progress with the analysis that he's going to present and it's also going to highlight you know where the uncertainties are so I don't have Alex you might want to chime in but we don't I don't know how we can say we we don't know basically but it definitely points to a stronger role of ocean forcing yeah I don't think we we can answer this question yet for sure but of course it's a burning question we all want to know but yeah it's it's just very difficult to to answer this and and we have to have a longer time series and and better models to to be sure what is going on there great thank you both for Amelia can you summarize the capabilities of the Joides resolution for working around coastal Antarctica as compared to the new ARV and its future timeline well that's a question for the ages so the Joides resolution is is an older ship and we are currently in a state where we may not have access to her but that is up in the air ultimately though she is not an ice strengthen well she's ice strengthened sort of but the captains are quite shy about bringing her into the ice at all we were able to get into the Rossi Polinia with an escort from the Palmer that we didn't actually need because the ice was so low on the peninsula she was able to drill in Palmer deep with ice support as well and the sea ice was not very heavy at all when that was drilled but that's not the case for the Amundsen Sea and Julia will probably talk about that and so there's very limited access by the Joides resolution to any of the shelf regions we can access the slope maybe we can access the larger Polinias but she really isn't the vessel to be drilling in the Antarctic and but we have proven that with simple high rpm and low weight on bit road recurring that we have been able to recover really incredible sequences that we're able to look back through time and try to understand how the Antarctic ice sheet has evolved so loaded question she may not be around for very long but we really need to get into these heavy ice coastal regions thank you a question for Ed in particular which paleo oceanographic records would you and the community like to see tie into ice core records are there certain places certain times uh well it's a big loaded question I think you maybe pick your favorite um the thing that comes to mind when I'm listening to all these discussions here has to do with understanding carbon dioxide variations on sort of century to glacial interglacial time scales and there it strikes me that it's not any one place that matters but it's actually understanding sort of the four-dimensional carbon cycle of the southern ocean so in the modern we're still trying to figure out where carbon's coming in and out of the the ocean and the same problem exists um on longer time scales we see individual places where things change and they um you know are compelling with respect to the dozen or so mechanisms that change atmospheric CO2 but we actually don't really know the the budget you know the balance so that's what one take is is we need comprehensive data um and then you know you can run down the list uh I think the coastal environments and changes in sea ice and understanding whether we really can trace the ice from ice cores um is quite important um and my favorite at the moment is to understand the MPT and and the the sort of pre-MPT um ice sheet particularly in east Antarctica um I think there's a lot of uncertainty about how sensitive that section is to warming so um but obviously if you ask other people you'll get other answers thank you um question for Sharon what kinds of tools would we would provide the sustained observations in the coastal environments is this a ship requirement or an autonomous measurement needed it's both so yeah we we definitely need to improve the autonomous observational platforms for that for for actually anywhere in the sea ice covered Antarctica because it's such a dynamic region um so and I think we're going in that direction as we've heard from others as well and I but I think it really requires that collaboration between engineers and science you know so technology so I'm really happy to know about the new director at NSF the technology innovation and partnership and I think we need to learn how to use that on the science side to improve that ability but um I agree with wholeheartedly with my colleagues that if you can have and improve autonomous observations but you still need the ship based for calibration for deployment for retrievals um you know for the process studies it's really those process studies I mean we need the time series and we need to be able to distribute that spatially but we need that um what I was describing the multi-platform multi-disciplinary process study on board that's looking at that strongly coupled system thank you and kind of a follow-up or a related question um is there more that we can do to leverage the autonomous platforms to monitor these regions are we getting the most out of for example under ice argo or instrumented seals etc so again to tag seals you need a ship and you need to be able to get into those areas where you can find the seals um and that's that's a challenge but I do think and we have experts here that the seal data is remarkable and it's really provided those winter observations under the CS cover that we don't have any other platform really the Argos those few that have been deployed within the seasonal CS zone didn't last they didn't stay under the seasonal CS so and so we need to figure that one out too we can do bottom moorings but um if you really want up for ocean observations you're you know you're now at risk of icebergs and and thick ice uh dragging is along thank you question for alex one of the needs you pointed to was better ocean salinity measurements how do these requirements relate to the currently available salinity retrieval from retrievals from satellites how much better accuracy and or spatial resolution is needed yeah thanks for asking is I think it's really important that we have very high quality salinity measurements in this as an ocean because it is um what determines the stratification of the upper ocean um and the the gradients sometimes are small that we are looking at and um so we we're really in a high accuracy salinity and um also from the autonomous platforms um that needs to be improved certainly I think and and you are also pointing towards the satellite and and I think that there is also some potential there that we can learn on on the largest scale variability also around the ice edge or maybe in pollinias from from satellite data and I think that's a very emerging topic that is um still um I think uh progressing but um I think also satellite data in the marginal ice zone is becoming better and better and I think that will be also in future a great tool to have thank you we'll stop there with questions yeah I think our time is up but um if we didn't get to your question those will be useful for the committee so please do submit questions so that finishes this session thank you to all the speakers we're going to move directly into session five and that one is going to be moderated by Dan Costa so the speakers for that session please come to the stage thank you anyone yeah this is going to be a great session we've had a series of talks providing the context for the biota and so now we're going to look at how southern ocean high latitude biota uh and ecosystems have evolved and how they respond to and contribute to systematic change our first speaker is Eileen Hoffman Eileen is a professor and eminent scholar in the Department of Ocean and Earth Sciences and a member of the Center for Coastal Physical Oceanography both at Old Dominion University Eileen okay thank you um do I need to do something here to okay okay thank you um first up I'd like to um start by thanking the committee for the opportunity to be involved in this workshop and it's been interesting discussions for the last time day or so all right so what I was asked to talk about was Antarctic biota and ecosystems and where we might be in the future in terms of observing these systems and what the systems might actually look like um so I'll start with a reminder here about observations and we've heard from many of the speakers and in various discussions that there are multiple observational platforms available to us now and ships are only one of many of these platforms so we heard from Oscar yesterday that the ship capability should allow interfacing with other platforms and advancing science and here I'm talking about in terms of ecosystems and other things as well requires integration of all of these available observing technologies all right so we talk about food webs or ecosystems in the Antarctic the figure shown to the left here is the iconic Antarctic food web where everything flows to Antarctic krill and everything flows outwards from Antarctic krill so this is the food web most people have in mind when they think about Antarctic uh Antarctic ecosystems in biota the center panel here is an example of a food web from south georgia a sub Antarctic area the scotia sea and the food web to the left here is the krill dominated food web but the one to the right is a non krill dominated food web because at times south georgia has a has uh runs out of krill in effect because it's dependent upon inputs of krill from upstream sources like the west Antarctic peninsula the point here is that you can shift to a new food web and in the case with south georgia with the non krill food web that can sustain the system for a little while but in the long term it does not support all the top top predator trophic levels that like the seals the penguins and and the whales and I bring this up because what we're seeing now in some areas outside of the sub Antarctic or the area and the scotia sea is a transition to this non krill dominated food web the the panel the panel on the right here is from the uh raw sea and that's another type of food web where krill is not the dominant um mid trophic consumer there or the mid trophic level um organism there are various other organisms that come in there and how we shift between those has lots of implications for the um for the food web so we have a lot of heterogeneity in the forcing and habitat structure we have a lot of regional differences and that's another thing to think you hear about is it's it's a different food web depending on where you are and type in the season all right the other thing is um southern ocean or Antarctic food webs are not isolated they're they're globally connected and they're connected at different kinds of trophic levels the seabird and cetacean migrations in and out of the Antarctic link the Antarctic food webs to those at much lower latitudes so that we have so in the Antarctic there are a lot of seasonal residents that are of the high latitudes but also of the low latitudes and Dan Costina's colleagues recently uh extended this idea by looking at the carbon and nitrogen transport that occurs through these seasonal migrations in and out of the southern ocean there are also human interactions there um that that also give global connectivity mainly through fisheries and tourism that both of which have impacts on the food webs and so the changes that go on in the southern ocean food webs have consequences outside of the southern ocean and so what we want to do is to look at what these might actually be in in the future because of looking at conservation and management of these systems all right so I was asked to look into the future and see what might that might hold for Antarctic food webs and the way one way to look into the future is to use projections and we're very fortunate in the southern ocean to have a number of high resolution regional and circumpolar coupled circulation sea ice ice shelf atmospheric models that can be used as input to food web models biogeochemical models and habitat models and I've just shown you two examples here the one on the right side is a circumpolar high resolution circumpolar projection for temperature and the one on the left is a regional one from the Amundsen Sea it's a circulation but you see it resolves a lot of the mesoscale variability so we have these models we have these tools all right so if we implement this this is from a recent paper by Mike Deneman looking at projections of sea ice concentration and in the left panel here the uppermost thing is the current condition of sea ice the one to look at is for 2100 and you can look at that and see we have a huge reduction projected reduction in sea ice the center panel here is a projection of ice shelf basal melt and this is done as a ratio of the future 2100 to current and this suggests that there is an increase in the basal melt rate of many of the ice shelves and that's related to things we were talking about yesterday with warm deep water coming in onto the shelf so in terms of the food web that's what the right panel here shows there's going to be a large increase in dissolved iron and southern ocean ecosystems are limited the primary production is limited by the availability of dissolved iron and so the projections suggest that there's going to be a lot of dissolved iron available to the surface waters in the future all right so that would suggest that there's going to be an increase in production all right so if we look at an example from the Ross sea looking again at projections and here you're looking from the Ross sea out ice shelf out into the Ross sea and the panel on the left is a projection for 2050 and the thing to look at here is the orange and red colors all right and this is a projection of mixed layer depth all right and so what this suggests is that mixed layer depths are going to get deeper so there's more mixing which allows more of the dissolved iron to come up into the surface waters and by 2100 there's a lot more mixing with much deeper mixed layers and these are for the summer periods so there be reduced sea ice is what's allowing this to happen there's more open water for longer time which means a longer growing season and increased inputs of dissolved iron so in this particular paper they went ahead and looked at the primary production and there is an increase in primary production but what changes is that there is a shift in the phytoplankton community composition to diatoms and that has implications for the input inputs to the food web all right so this would suggest that maybe you know it's going to be great lots of primary production lots of iron stimulating the production but what we really want to do is say okay what happens next so the projections for the rest of the for other components of the food web and here I've only picked two the for an arctic krill as an example if we look at projections the one on the left side here is the projection of krill growth potential and this was done using the some of the rcp scenarios and the thing to look at is the red line and in the summer that line is collapsed in up against the coast all right so these are areas that are favorable for krill growth during the summer the green areas are ones where krill do not do well growing during the summer all right the center panel here looks at projections of krill habitat based on the ability of the krill to complete its reproductive cycle all right and the important part here is to look at the orange areas relative to the green areas so the habitat becomes much smaller to where krill can actually complete its reproductive cycle and one of the strongest constraints you can put on an organism is the ability to either complete or not complete its reproductive cycle all right so if we look at a crab eater seal here from a recent paper by louise huck stat this is projections of seal habitat along the west an arctic peninsula in terms of where the seal gets has the ability to forage particularly during the time period when when they're getting you know when they're pumping and that type of thing but this is looking at the austral summer and what this suggests is that there is a big habitat change and that the habitat that can support the crab eater seals is going to shift to higher latitudes all right so so these would suggest that the other parts of the food web are going to have to move and they may not be moving into areas with increased primary production all right the other thing i want to mention here is marine protected areas the center panel shows the existing and proposed marine protected areas for the southern ocean the one on the right here is the marine protected area is now in existence for the raw sea right these areas are becoming set aside and the raw sea one which i think david ailey will talk more about in his flash talk are areas where we need to have monitoring and research all right the raw sea mpa is in existence for 35 years at that point it's going to be evaluated to see if it's effective or not the only way we're going to know that is whether or not we do whether it is by monitoring and looking at that system the figure on the left here is from a workshop that sharon stammer john and others ran recently looking at what is needed to monitor and evaluate the raw sea mpa and the bottom pillar of this is observations but also observations connected with process studies so that's fundamental to understanding these areas and having access to these areas at all year round or certainly more than one more than just the austral summer is important for that all right i would be remiss if i don't briefly mention here the un decade the southern ocean task force there is a southern ocean action plan that was recently released about what the research needs are in the southern ocean this is an international program the action plan goes through many different things but the one thing i want to talk about here is what's highlighted in bold here is one of the recommendations from this is to have a coordinated international circumpolar sea ice study with a focus on seasonal and regional variability the rationale behind this is that many nations are now having platforms ships that and autonomous vehicles that can measure sea ice environments but also as sharon just pointed out in her talk sea ice is changing and what we know is that sea ice is going to change a lot of things and marine ecosystems are one of the things that will change all right so to sort of end here we have a complexity of responses here um they're all shown here there are a lot of interactions and these are going to these stressors are going to interact and like warming and acidification are going to interact in various ways to change our marine ecosystems and we want to be able to measure monitor that so that there can be some type of adaptation or mitigation all right so challenges uh observational capabilities we know there's going to be reduced sea ice or we think there will be reduced sea ice and increased open water that puts more emphasis on coastal environments and it also puts emphasis on higher latitudes as food web shift um we need to have inclusion of new data and technologies the omics work which i think allison will talk about as well as integration with remote remote sensing and and autonomous measurements but importantly for the science we have we're going to need to think about neglected trophic links because what's neglected now we don't study may in fact become the major trophic pathway later also adaptation pathways and i'll come back to the fact we're using projections to look at this we need the observations to improve the projections and this came up yesterday is that you couple the observations and models while at sea run the model to help you guide your observations so i'll stop at that point and say thank you and look forward to questions so thank you very much all right thank you eileen we'll now have a three minutes of questions from slido if we have some you don't have any in slido yet so if you have a question please add it to slido you're in too intent listening to the talk there's an in-person question can we get a mic over to mo you mentioned in your talk that there's a shift in the primary producers to diatoms if it's not diatoms what is it like what's the other option um right now in the raw sea a lot of it is in fae assistus which is a type of um phytoplankton that doesn't really it's not easily grazed by a lot of the zooplankton and so potentially by shifting everything to diatoms it would encourage something like an Antarctic krill to come in there and eat because Antarctic krill don't really eat fae assistus so they're just like some kind of teeny tiny micro plankton i'm sorry they're just like a micro plankton like a what what kind of organism is a fae assistus a bacteria what is it that that eats fae assistus no what is it what is fae assistus kind of organism is it i'm i'm sorry i'm having it it's it's just maize a fae assistus no it's what type is it's it's uh maize a fae all that tish answers she's the expert yeah yeah i believe it's a promesia fae which is a different kind of protest thank you all right and uh a question from slido um okay go ahead could you elaborate on what key observations are needed to evaluate the effects of the rossy marine protected area program hello we just had a whole workshop on that there's a workshop report that um uh elaborates on some of that but i mean the physical environment for sure um and then the you know just documenting or measuring food web components um yeah that it's it's it's basically looking at the food web and then how that food web is responding to things like um not allowing fishing vessels to come in you know does that you know what's the impact of that on higher trophic levels and i think david ailey might mention some of that in in his presentation thank you ted no that that the that is not in the model what has been used is a average in-member concentration for the ice for the dissolved iron that's in the melted ice but that is a very good point and that's something that could be incorporated at some future time if the information is available to do it yeah and i should say we could change those projections by changing those kinds of numbers yeah yeah thank you and one kind of also a question related to iron how good are the predictions of future iron flux to the surface ocean and what might be needed to improve those yeah okay so the predictions of the flux to the surface ocean are based upon the circulation models and also the circulation underneath the ice cavity so if there are observations that improve how we can parameterize and um simulate those processes that would improve the projections for the amount of dissolved iron that will be delivered to the surface waters in the coastal environment okay we're going to move on now we're going to start our flash talks we'll hold the questions until the end of all the flash talks our first uh flash talk will be given by allison murray allison is a molecular micro microbial ecologist and biological oceanographer at the desert research institute in nevada allison hi thank you um i wanted to thank the national academy and the committee for inviting me to share a few thoughts on future research directions and biological adaptation and evolution of life in Antarctica and the southern ocean uh and i need to start this off with an acknowledgement that uh these ideas come from a workshop that uh we had down in october that nsf uh sponsored and so i really want to thank the participants to that workshop there are about 60 that were there um it was all virtual and uh the organizing committee who's been working with me um to sort of synthesize the data since then the um if if i think that there's consensus uh that if we have to distill things down to one driving question um regarding life in Antarctic i think is what is the resilience of Antarctic life scaling from viruses to whales to changes brought on by climate change uh there are some example types of questions in this area of research are uh how are Antarctic population genomes structured over space and time um this tells you about um how diverse the populations are and how diverse they are can tell you how that resilient they are the more diverse ones tend to be more resilient um how fast can Antarctic genomes change something that we really don't know um how competitive are Antarctic organisms to invasions in terms of predation uh competition for resources space and disease resistance and how sensitive are Antarctic organisms and ecosystems to human driven pressures such as fishing tourism our human presence in Antarctica this requires collections of diverse species many members of each experimental research ecosystem studies across the Antarctic and southern ocean environments by a diverse population of polar researchers each species may respond differently to environmental pressures and each may adapt evolve and respond differently to changes in climate uh as you may or may not know DNA encodes genes these are the words that encode functions of the proteins these are like molecular machines and selection happens at the level of these molecular machines and those changes though are recorded in the genomes Antarctica I have uh not a lot of time to talk about diversity but the diversity of life in Antarctica is immense it is especially in the marine ecosystems it approaches that of what we find in lower latitude ecosystems but we know a lot less about the life histories of these animals and their evolution how they've adapted to the Antarctic genomic genome sciences comparative genomics are really starting to shed light on the molecular basis of biological adaptation and response and although there are maybe 17,000 invertebrate organisms that live in the benthos of Antarctica we um in the center of an unaccounted for number of microbes and single celled eukaryotes uh we're beginning to know something about certain areas of uh based on genomics in this area um Antarctic the fish community has sequenced now 44 fish genomes of the notythenoids which are a very interesting population of fish that really expanded and radiated are very successful in Antarctica and through their genome sequencing we've learned about genome expansions that have then um uh where antifreeze proteins are present in multiple copies um proteins membranes and metabolic adaptations are all found and identified through these comparative genomic studies um a lot of the uh enzymes can be have very small numbers of changes in them to make them cold adapted so in the figure in the lower um panel um structural addict adaptations for just three amino acids have enabled this protein adenolyte kinase to be really flexible and still perform at low temperature uh there are about eight Antarctic algae genomes that have been sequenced and uh this uh sort of early stages of research has shown that there's hundreds of duplicated genes they have ice binding proteins and they have restructured photosynthetic apparatus in some cases a number of genes have been duplicated for light harvesting pigments there are numerous cold adaptive features in bacteria um this diagram shows some of them uh there are many more bacterial genomes that have been sequenced they're very they're sort of small on the order of sort of three to five million bases um and they're pretty easily accessible through either sequencing of isolates or sequencing of metagenomes but they have cold chock proteins they also have ice binding proteins and many adaptations to their membranes to allow them to function in the cold uh the vision for Antarctic omics science in the 2030s and omics is sort of the combination of genome sciences transcriptome sequencing proteome sequencing metabolite sequencing or metabolite chemistry um in order for uh what where our vision is is that we think that there's going to be hundreds of genomes for eukaryotes thousands of genomes for fungi and algae and other produce 10 the tens of thousands of genomes for bacteria archaea viruses um this needs to be linked together with an interoperable cyber infrastructure system that does not exist currently um and to study the behavior and adaptation of these um organisms we can use transcriptomes and other types of omics to really look at the the functions of their adaptive responses an important point here is the integrated understanding of ecological and evolutionary interactions between traffic levels functional networks and ecosystem function are needed to develop this comprehensive vision of what is happening in Antarctic organisms and ecosystems uh with this information in order to access it um um ARV enabled access is critical and so so many of the points that have already been brought up and getting to different ecosystems also include the hydrothermal vents and cold seeps um and really understanding the gradient of coastal to polar frontal uh zone oceanography are important climate a lot of people in the community are really interested in doing um in order to study adaptation doing on board experiments is critical so having the facilities on the ship to facilitate uh experiments is important having an enhanced presence to seasonal access year-round access key um making and incorporating omics into informing Antarctic MPA research like what Eileen introduced is is is going to be important um and and really integrating ecosystems research tying together traffic levels physiology omics and foreign science and I think that in a lot of the platforms that were described yesterday for solid earth and for sea levels that rise studies um we can you can also incorporate uh life scientists on your cruises to help and take advantage of the types of ecosystems that you're working in and and access especially to the benzos uh thank you all right thank you allison again we're just going to move right on and hold questions for the end our next speaker is david ailey david's a senior avian ecologist at ht harvey and associates in las gatos california david oh there he is we can hear you now david okay um i'm really honored that i was invited to talk about this sort of thing um question i was assigned is interesting um very most of the talks we've heard so far have been confined confined to climate change um however in our recent work in southern ross he has shown that yes indeed climate change is important especially wind driven factors but also a food web is changing and it likely has to do with fishing and it's showing um that so-called indicator species such as penguins and seals uh the populations have been growing in the last couple of decades okay next slide um so these trends along with uh studies of the biota in the southern ross the represent the longest biological time series in the southern ocean beginning in the 1960s this is incredible um archive of of data um from which the present and the future um can be based um the trends in the southern ross he should not be dismissed as anomalous the southern ross he represents the high latitude um Antarctic um yeah okay so these penguins and seals um have been designated by camel are as so-called indicator species the progressive managing the recently designated ross region marine particularly that Eileen mentioned rossi and particularly mercurial sound is most intensively research stretch of the southern ocean um there are many public hundreds of public studies have been um produced and such as biogeochemistry of rossi by dunbar and detulio and um lenius windows to the world by smith and um barber this is an incredible archive of information um the rossi region mpa was initiated by us scientists that never would have happened if it hadn't gone all the way to the us state department um the designation of this area is a huge deal and the us has an obligation to be leading the research and monitoring um that is required by designating documents as eileen mentioned the mpa is up for renewal and and not far in the future okay next please slide oh so here is the rossi um region mpa the really nitty gritty is is confined to the waters overlying the shelf and slope all that stuff to the north was added for bio bio political reasons um but it is the shelf and the slope in which this incredible archive of information is available and as i said um rossi is not wanting for called indicator species okay next slide uh-huh so in my humble opinion and i think i'm speaking and i know i'm speaking for dozens of scientists um the us marine research over the next few decades needs to include respectable leading effort in the rossi region and especially in McMurdo sound um next please um not only that um well you know the us will be contributing all kinds of satellite imagery and automatic weather station data um to monitor the biophysical factors you know the us has been doing this and will continue to do this however we have this problem of the indicator species um and they are showing that the ecosystem is changing but the question is what is going on um okay next i think um now in McMurdo sound the annuals cover of fastest provides an incredible research platform which um men divers rovs ice fishing moorings tagging of animals i'm depth you know logging of animals has been deployed since the 1960s um along with the aerial surveys and that sort of thing as i said resulting knowledge is amazing um and so you know in a way there's been a non-official LTR but now there's a need to be you know integrating the various components of um what has been monitored for these decades okay next okay here we go month um McMurdo sound um covered with fast ice um but also there's a McMurdo sound polinia that's the southern southwestern rossi and McMurdo sound it represents a microcosm of the high latitude coastal Antarctic ocean um and i have tried to say it's full of indicator species um that have been intensively studied and now their relations need to be linked okay next okay so you saw those food web models that Eileen Hoffman revealed well in the southern rossi the predators and the fish haven't read the read these papers um and the very tightly tight food web i should say that most of the a lot of the phytoplankton goes on graze because of the foraging by these all these predators um so whether or not future increase in productivity is going to have any effect it really remains a huge question okay within the food web we have um which is where soda fish are an important component we have these species competing with one another for soda fish but they're also eating one another so it's an incredible um food web for sure with the you know girls going up and back um okay next next okay we're going to need you to wrap up please okay so we're everyone talking about international collaboration but we do need an intranational research effort to be integrated um not just NSF but also the U.S. Coast Guard National Fish Research and other agencies um and so you know anyway that's what I have to say thanks thank you David okay again we'll move right on and save the questions for the end our final speaker is Patricia Yeager Patricia is a professor at the University of Georgia Department of Marine Science okay great thank you it's a pleasure to be here I'm really honored to be invited and thank you to the organizers um I am supposed to speak on the ecosystems but focusing primarily on the biojew chemistry so I'm going to focus on some key questions that have been around for a while is what is the role of Antarctic coastal and near shore regions we heard a little bit about the open ocean earlier today what is the role of these regions on the total carbon uptake by the southern ocean now and in the future and we've known for a while that coastal polyneas are carbon sinks because they're very high productivity associated with the marginal ice zone um the Almondson oops the Almondson is the place I've been and we've shown um that its rate of uptake is about 10 times per meter squared on average than the greater southern ocean so these are hot spots I'd like to say they're small but mighty um we've also seen from other investigators at the Ross Sea Polyne and the Merzpolyne and the Gerlach Strait are similarly potent if not even more so in certain areas so this is a really really important system and the key is that they're climate sensitive because they're very tightly coupled to the sea ice issues that Sharon Stammerjohn spoke about earlier today and again it's because of they they're really driven this is a glider data from Oscar sort of showing where the high chlorophyll is in that warm uh fresher layer that forms when the sea ice melts so there's this sweet spot where the nutrients and the iron are coming from below but the water column is stable because there is sea ice melt and so that's a really important piece of this puzzle and part of the story about whether more iron is going to make this system more productive is very much related to whether or not there's still going to be some stability left provided by the sea ice um we do know that when the sea ice starts to go away we can see the flux the carbon flux of these regions is responsive to the loss of sea ice thankfully the LTR time series data have proven that these fluxes are sensitive to ecosystem change in this case uh you see an increase in the CO2 uptake by this region as the sea ice is still present but has increased in in area and the blooms are responding so what else might it be sensitive to you've probably seen this figure um maybe you though haven't noticed that there's a plankton bloom offshore um and so we've been studying how in the almonds and see this very productive algal bloom is linked to the uh offshore uh not the offshore the the buoyant melt bloom from the melting ice shelf the basal melt that was just described and you can see here this uh sort of a plume of iron rich water coming out from the dots and ice shelf from measurements made in 2010 and 11 uh you've also seen uh Kevin Rigo showing that these chlorophyll concentrations across all 45 polyneas in the Antarctic are related sort of to the basal melt rate there's a correlation of about 0.6 which is pretty good however if you actually look from year to year these regions are very highly variable as are the polyneas so if you look at the dots and melt water flux against the almonds and see primary productivity they don't match so it's not a one to one it's not going to be easy to say more basal melt more productivity uh the variable melt water does not explain these variations so we've been exploring quite a bit how this actually works um and looking at how combination of sea ice glacial melt coastal ice scape changes will be influencing both iron and carbon supply to the coastal Antarctic ecosystem and just to give you a little bit of a preview there's iron-rich melt circumpolar deep water so in addition to our intuition about oh there's iron in the glacier actually if you if you looking at the model most of the iron that's being brought into these ecosystems is coming from the deep water the circumpolar deep water that is being melt water modified and made oops made more buoyant and coming up to the surface that's a really key piece of the puzzle it's not just the melting glacier but in fact it's the ocean circulation which is delivering the iron to the surface it's also picking up a lot of iron as it moves on to the shelf we think um and then it comes slamming out of the uh ice shelf um in places like the Dotson Outflow and entering the Plena through various mechanisms and then we also realize that there's a really strong coastal current of course as you saw in in Mike Teneman's model that carries stuff from upstream from glaciers melting upstream and then carry some of that iron downstream so it's a pretty complicated system and very tightly coupled to the physics and you can't just measure the dissolved iron you have to also measure the organic compounds that might hold the iron and make them bioavailable you have to look at particulate iron in addition to the CO2 and microbial communities that are really key to the cycling of this iron and how bioavailable it is it's not just total iron but what is the form of that iron making it available to the phytoplankton so we need to look at how the iron is coming up off the sediments um and how it's being modified in the cavity and so tracing what's happening inside the cavity turns out is probably really important including potential sub-glacial meltwater contributions coming out from underneath the glacier so and then finally how do you how do you get that iron from that outflow out into the euphotic zone so there's all the mesoscopic processes that you need to understand and the speciation question that I mentioned and I am dropping running out of time so I'll just show you this we're interested in the coastal icecape because it's changing dramatically this is a shot we took this past year of the western dots and ice shelf where the outflow is coming out and comparing that to the inflow the eastern side where the inflow is and I guess you can probably see the caves and the erosion and the slumping of this area where that warm water is coming out and that's affecting not just the ice shelf itself of course but also the ice scape around that area so what does the future hold in order to make any predictions about this we must um work with models as has been mentioned many times but we really want to know how this productivity and carbon uptake will change with increasing sea ice and sea ice melt because we may be adding iron as I said but if we're also losing sea ice we're going to lose that mixed layer depth effect and then I mentioned the sublacial melt water so again working with models very tightly tightly relationships between the ship and the modelers this model was built Pierre Saint Laurent with really well validated model data from 2010 11 and it's in the process of being improved with ship data from 2022 but the main thing oops I guess I really want to say is well I'll show you that I'm not going to show you that model right now the issue I think I really want to point out is that the the work we did at sea was very tightly coupled to model and the model guided what we did and then we did a lot and I think we were the the example that you saw earlier from Tim yesterday but we had two sets of CTDs we had underway towfish we had continuous underway sensors on the ship we had gliders of various sorts we had eight well six gliders and two AUVs the AUVs went under the ice to get samples for us which was extraordinary and then we also strikingly for the first time had a trace metal team working next door to a sediment coring team and we figured out how to do that in a way that that really worked and so what we're talking about is a huge amount of work a lot of talented people a lot of really good gear many of these things someone asked about the trace metal system on the ARV it looks like it's about the same from what I can tell and I was going to check with Amy but it looks like it's a similar design to what we do on the Palmer which is to have the starboard a frame put the second CTD over the side so it looks very similar I also want to emphasize how important it is for the whole group to have support from satellites both ocean color and sea ice are critical to our understanding when we're in the ship offshore and so bandwidth of course and getting that information to the ship is key and then in my remaining minute I guess I've lost my remaining minute but let me just say one other thing that's I think is really important and nobody has mentioned when you put this many people on a ship and there were 63 people on the boat for more than 60 days there's a lot of stress and a lot of challenges I'm not sure we need longer ship time more I could see you say we could use probably a few more scientists I do appreciate the increased number of science births but I don't think we need more than 60 ship days we do need 24 7 operations so we need a team of logistics on the ship that can handle a really really busy day to day process but we also need because these teams are interdisciplinary they're usually international we come from different science approaches we need a lot more emphasis on what I think Google has figured out with Aristotle is that a good team needs help we need to learn how to function as a team and so we need more precruised team building we need more interaction ahead of time between the ships and the logistics people on board and the science and we need a safe space the number one predictor of success for Google's Aristotle team study was psychological safety and so we have to make these ship spaces that are going out for so long safe for the people on board and that's going to take some work before you put them on the boat and I will end with that thank you very much all right thank you that finishes our presentations we're not going to go into the question period and yeah we'll do a few questions all right we'll just make lunch a little bit shorter um just a couple questions um the first relating to the marine protected area in the Rossi what metrics will be used to determine success and anyone can feel free to jump in you say that again I'm sorry about the marine protected area in the Rossi what metrics will be used to determine success is it here is this on here yeah okay um I think the metrics that determine success are still being to still being discussed yeah and and that's um I think one of the things that came out of the workshop that was held um that Sharon and other people convened it was was um um we're we're not sure yet what the metrics will be and I Sharon might want to add something to that but and to me that's somewhat distressing that the mpa is established and it's there and we still don't have a plan for how we're going to monitor it and assess its effectiveness and um anyway other people might want to say something um I could say something um I tried to make the case for McMurdo sound um it's a microcosm of a coastal high latitude Antarctic um logistical capabilities there are incredible helicopters um tracked vehicles snowmobile machines and that sort of thing um as well as remote sensing satellites um and so we you know we have this incredible backlog of information of the time series both of benthos and the water column processes um so really the the mpa was established to so to quote unquote um protect the structure and function of the Rossi ecosystem well I don't know that the Rossi ecosystem structure and function has actually been described um but I think by integrating um these long time series um with with uh interdisciplinary work at least to continue that sort of thing I think um we'll go a long way towards um seeing you know how the so-called structure and function of the Rossi ecosystem has changed um you know if we just burst our effort way up you know far afield um really we're and with snapshot sorts of studies it really won't work um but we do have that but it is we do have the capability of integrating um some incredible efforts um and I would hope that that um should be encouraged great thanks Sharon you want to make a quick comment okay one other question um Allison what is holding omics back is it just access to the coast sorry is it just access or is it the cost of sequencing so many samples uh this question's for Allison what is holding omics back what is I'm sorry is it just access or is it the cost of the sequence of sequencing the samples I it's probably a little bit of both um I think if you ask the community that access is the biggest problem uh the cost of sequencing has dramatically changed in the last seven years um so that sequencing genomes and doing high quality that the challenging you know microbial genomes are pretty accessible to sequence but now sequencing genomes of eukaryotes with all of these chromosomes and uh rich character and you know really a lot larger scale the order of magnitude of sequencing you know eukaryotic genomes scales from somewhere between 10 to 100 to a thousand times as big as a microbial genome so the technology for doing this and assembling high quality reference genomes exists now and they're doing it and you may have heard of the earth biogenome project but this is a very ambitious effort to sequence representative species of all life on earth and so through this this group and workshop one of the things that we're interested in doing is being an Antarctic node for that project and they're pretty eager to have us participate so I hope that answers the question thank you um and this question is for all the and this will be our last question um other questions that were entered on slido we will ask the speakers to address separately or um our committee will get back to the askers um so the question the southern ross c McMurdo sound seafloor is likely to have hydrothermal vents and methane seeps from the biological perspective what is the level of importance for exploration of these areas they might provide a lot of iron to the bottom water for sure so I'd be really interested to know how extensive they are and what their fluxes are for sure not to mention the ecosystem aspects of course and understanding how these systems function in in the high latitude and in the cold waters and the types of life that live there and exploring them I think is super important all right well thank you very much that concludes our session we have a short break for lunch it's in the great room and please return here at 12 15 for our afternoon session thank you all right welcome back everyone my name is John cookie and I will be moderating this next session our last session today is focused on what changes in erosion and hydrology are expected we're shifting ice sheets and how this will affect biogeochemical cycles biota and potential hazards our first speaker is Sydney Heming Sydney is an associate professor in the department of earth and environmental sciences at Columbia University thank you Sydney I'm actually a professor and that's a good indication of my not having weighed in quickly enough with my bio anyway I really appreciate being here it's been really exciting to see all the other talks and I have to say that what my group and I will be doing is piling on with some of the very similar stuff that's been already said I'd like to start with an overview of the sort of what's known about the Antarctic continent even though it's been said a number of times already because our task is an overview on changes due to altered erosion and sedimentation so this is a set of figures from a Pollard et al paper and the top map is a it shows the extent of floating ice shelves in blue and the and the range of places where the ice the grounding line retreated to that spot within 5000 years in the modeling simulations the bottom left figure is the modern bedrock elevations below sea level around Antarctica and the right hand bottom is the modern ice thicknesses above flotation and it's been said a number of times but the east Antarctic ice sheet has a holds approximately 52 meters of sea level something on the order of 18 meters of though that are in this vulnerable place with an ice floating ice margins below sea level the ice thickness is approximately three or four kilometers and it's mostly grounded above sea level but with these vulnerable spots and wilts in the deli land and in contrast the west Antarctic ice sheet holds about five meters of sea level the ice is about one or two kilometers thick on average and it's mostly grounded below sea level so in addition to this sort of look at Antarctica in the in the situation of the ice on the continents we also have already been shown this this famous figure from zakos et al of the cenozoic climate history based on this is a shout out to scientific ocean drilling this type of graph would not be possible without scientific ocean drilling and this in this figure zakos et al compiled the benthic delta o18 values to look at the at the sort of global integrated climate history and notably at about the eocene oligocene boundary there's a sharp increase in the delta o18 decrease in temperature but sufficient that it couldn't have been just explained by changes in temperature and there must be ice volume changes and this information is largely consistent with the much more sparse data close to Antarctica on the changes in clay mineralogy and ice raffid detritus and also sparse studies on the continent indicating about that time for the initiation of Antarctic glaciation so one of the big questions we have to ask ourselves is how to assess the vulnerability of Antarctic ice and this map is a compilation from Brendan Riley of the cores that are available at the Oregon state Antarctic core collection the the bigger of the base spots are coarse cores that are greater than three meters and the bright red spots are core are cores that are taken that are greater than three meters from the Palmer and Gould vessels and then the drill cores from the drill cores from and real and shall drill are shown that don't show up so well because they're in a mass they're shown in the orange squares and then importantly dsdp iodp odp iodp cores are shown as the yellow squares with red spots around them i'm going to be showing a couple of examples oops sorry i'm going to be showing a couple of examples from some of the iodp site around Pritz Bay and Wilkes land okay so the first example i'm going to show is from this interval in the Pliocene where we went from relatively warm early Pliocene conditions to more cooler and more variable late Pliocene conditions and the this study is from site 1165 from off the Pritz Bay margin and the map on the top right is a map of is a survey of the form plan 4039 ages around Antarctica with the color scheme legend here pointing to the screen legends get here on the on the bottom right showing younger ages in in pinks sort of the typical Ross pan african age in orange and red and then older ages in the green turquoise and blue colors and so you can see that there's a pattern of variability around Antarctica that allows us to have breadcrumbs for tracking icebergs and the bottom right figure is a map a model figure of the iceberg trajectories around Antarctica the icebergs typically move counterclockwise with the with the countercurrent around Antarctica and they basically spin out into the Antarctic circumpolar current most dramatically in the embayment areas and then on the on the left hand side is the data from the Cook et al paper from 1165 the the the pie charts on the left represent the distribution of hornblende grained ages within these samples and and this is synthesized in this middle figure the orange is the approximate modern distribution of hornblende ages and the graph shows the variation in proportions of Wilkes land versus Pritz Bay local distant versus close ice raffid detritus and so you can see that that during the warm early Pliocene that the distribution of promenades ages is very similar to today but during the cooler and late and variable late Pliocene the the distribution of far traveled IRD from Wilkes land becomes much more important so process matters and the observations matter and this plus other provenance stories and also far field evidence from from a sea level caused the ice sheet modelers to go back and think about what processes might have been left out that caused them to not be able to predict the level of change in the ice margin that was required to to explain the geological observations and so they they added to their model mechanisms to account for ice cliff failure and hydro fracture so the the top sorry the the the top left is the original model B and C are with cliff failure and hydro fracture built in sort of to their model and then D is with both of those mechanisms included in the model and and that's not the only thing in in addition to including those kinds of ice margin effects Jackie Osterman did a study to look at the effect of dynamic topography and the Wilkes land margin was about a hundred meters lower in the Pliocene compared to today and if the reconstructions take into account those new mechanisms plus the dynamic topography even more retreat on that Wilkes land margin can be explained okay so my group's goal is to try to pile on to the growing the growing request to be able to examine the system from right next to the ice to the deep ocean so we want to be able to go in and we want to look at the processes that are going on at and near the grounding line and beneath the shelf we want to be able to look at both the geophysical imaging of the surface and the architecture of the sediment pile underneath the the ice shelf as well as out into the deep ocean and to borrow from Mo Walsak we need to take mud in order to be able to connect the modern observations and processes to the proxy evidence that we can gain from the ancient record so one of the things that I think is kind of an exciting new development for international ocean discovery program is adding x-ray capabilities onto the ship so I think expedition 379 was the first one that sailed x-rays on the ship and now they've built a better system and these pictures that I'm showing are from some data that some images that Trevor Williams collected on the new instrument in at iodp in college station on the left is a picture and then an x-ray of a core from the amundan sea and you can see the the sort of density change of court with the lithology but you can also see the black spots that represent the ice rafting detritus the image in the middle is from a site off of wiltsland I'm actually going to show some data from that in a second and then the the image on the right is a laminated section from the lake fly scene early Pleistocene from the from the raw sea margin where you can see ice rafting detritus distributed through there so the example that I'm going to show you from the wiltsland margin site 1361 this is from a paper from wilson et al in 2018 and it follows a study Cook et al looking at the lake fly scene that I'll show in a moment Cook et al is part of her study looked at the known distribution of geological terrains around the vicinity of wiltsland and the red lines here are showing the sort of approximate sea level changes as a result of the ice moving in to these various places and so by the survey of looking at the geology and looking at the ice top geochemistry from those terrains this is neodymium isotopes against strontium isotopes the samples that that keros measured from the from the interglacial times are shown here in the open symbols and the more glacial times are shown here in the closed symbols so you can see there's a significant change in the provenance and then this follow-up study from wilson et al this is the neodymium isotopes in the red curve here and you can and this is the barium to aluminum as an indicator of a productivity below it and for reference here's the sea level and surface and subsurface temperatures from other coring sites as well as this temperature from the anardic ice core and you can see that every one of these times square um anardica is warm we get these significant differences in the provenance from these sediments um one provenance tool and there's and there's not a huge amount of these kinds of data available but these are other two two studies from around this region this is the Pleistine study that originated this work from Cook et al and then here's a from a nearby core 1356 is a neodymium record from the middle myosin climate transition here's the core top from that so it's it's similar to the other site and you can see that for all of these we've got this significant shifting provenance through there like to understand more about what that means does it related to subglacial melt water what does it mean about the extent of the ice margin at that time so what changes in erosion and hydrology are expected with shifting ice sheets and how will this affect biogeochemical cycles biota and hazards in a group shongolic is going to show high resolution process information from geophysical imaging julio wellner is going to be reading the sedimentary record showing some examples of using proxies for temperature nutrients biological activity and other things to understand the past changes in it around anardica and john hawkins is going to um zoom in on the importance of understanding subglacial melt water in the in the modern and in general to echo what has been said over and over here an integrated approach is necessary modern processes form understanding of expressions left from the past that's the proxy development the past evidence provides a much greater ability to understand the full range of states the historical observations are limited and especially around anardica numerical simulations are essential and observations are essential for guiding them and anardica is a challenging place to work but its role in global sea level in climate or critical knowledge thank you sydney um we should now move on to our first five minute flash talks the first of which will be given by julio wellner julia is an assistant professor at the university of houston hi thank you and thanks for that overview said you heard this morning that i might talk about amundsen sea drilling from the jr and then just now syd showed some x-rays from our crews there i'm actually not planning on covering it and the reason why is because we didn't make it into the ice covered waters the jr is not an ice strengthened vessel really in any meaningful way and it is not the answer to our our questions or problems here so what i am going to show instead is a few different cores that have been collected from the palmer each trying to make a different point so starting with as you heard today there's efforts to get long ice core records that's fantastic but the marine sediment record is always going to be longer than the terrestrial record whether you're looking at ice cores or um sediments we're always going to be able to get more from the sedimentary record the example shown here is um from the northwestern medel sea and goes from the eocene to the pliocene in snapshots it's not a continuous core and on the left side of the core figure we have sedimentology that is showing that we were able to identify um tidewater glaciation by the late eocene and the anardic peninsula and then on the right side of the figure is all new data from emily tidbit that's just been published because these cores have been well preserved now at oregon state they still allow modern analysis and in this case she's used biomarkers to look at both air and water temperature and so using these three records from the stratigraphy to the air temperature from soil markers through the sea surface temperature we're able to reconstruct the different timing of how these things happen glacial onset then air cooling then ocean cooling coincident with more global ocean deep ocean cooling so the photo on the left of the screen is from the program called shall draw that is the nathaniel palmer with a rotary drill rig over the moon pool the moon pool was cut in the palmer for those of you that don't know in 2004 so 12 years after the vessel was launched the moon pool was cut in order to facilitate this style of drilling it worked we haven't repeated it um beyond the two legs that it did but don't worry i'm not proposing a large moon pool a la the sir david attenborough or similar vessels rather i'm trying to show you that sometimes smaller scale solutions creatively applied can allow the um collection of the data needed so in this case modification and acquisition of this core next slide please so another type of coring that is done on the palmer is piston coring gravity coring uh cast in coring so i'm putting these all in my medium cores uh that allow access to the deglaciated ice bed it's hard to get through the ice it's a lot easier to go get all of these cores from the shelf and they still allow us to reconstruct past glacial conditions the figure from tauton at all just shows one of an assemblage of the many cores we collected around the peninsula allowing regional temperature um and deglacial records i only have three slides but four points so the second one on this slide is that the paleo record sometimes shows us things we've never observed in the case of the gram at all paper which was from the thwaites embayment the paleo record shows us that the ice has retreated faster than we've ever seen it and going out and getting these shelf records is the only way we're ever going to know that and so for my final slide i'd like to show you some of our newest cores um these are from the thwaites glacier area as part of the itgc and thor project and so the final type of core we take is a multicore or megacore they're not um extra large rather they are um collected in groups of high resolution um coring that preserves the bottom water and the very upper part of the sediment allowing us to reconstruct very recent change so in the long core description what you see there in a figure that's in second review now in pna s um is the core photo the x-ray it's down the middle and then the cat scans on the right so x-rays are great cat scans are even better and at the top of that core we have a lead 210 profile allowing us to reconstruct the past hundred years or so and in the big blue bars i want to draw your attention to work that is um being done right now by frankie pavia who's looking at the flux of helium three or um interplanetary dust particles that are coming into the amundsen embankment and the red line at the base of the spot there is calculated how much flux of helium three or interplanetary dust should there be just from the known melting the blue bars are what we actually get in the core suggesting there's a lot more melt water than observed from calculated melt and um shows our ability to use cores to know what's happening now thank you thank you julian um we will save our questions for the end so please enter them in slido as we go along um our next flash talk is by john hawkins john is an assistant professor at the university of pennsylvania thank you very much um i hope my bills work otherwise it's going to be quite embarrassing but uh thank you very much for inviting me to um present today uh despite the fact that i'm going to whisper this i've never been to Antarctica but uh i'm going to do my best to hopefully represent um some of the research that's been done down there and i've been lucky enough to have some samples delivered to me to analyze so i'm going to start my story by talking about liquid water underneath the Antarctic ice sheet um and this has kind of been talked about a little bit in in the past uh day or so but i just want to um start by showing you that there is liquid water underneath the Antarctic ice sheet we've known this for quite a number of years now going back decades um the most recent estimates of uh subglacial lakes that might exist and underneath the Antarctic ice sheet is about 670 subglacial lakes um the blue triangles on this figure at the top here of the Antarctic continent um show active subglacial lakes and these are subglacial lakes that we know drain and fill on on cycles um and these lakes are thought to be connected to the continental margins and are likely to deliver fresh water to these these marginal environments um the lower figure there is from a recent paper by Christina Dowle demonstrating that subglacial channels are likely to persist up to 500 kilometers into the Antarctic ice sheet margin delivering water from the interior of the Antarctic ice sheet to coastal environments Antarctica uh there's an even more interesting story here um and this has just really emerged in the past year or so uh some great work that's been done by Chloe Gustafson that was published in Science last year demonstrating that a deep groundwater system likely exists underneath Antarctica as well so that subglacial lake or kind of ice bedrock interface environment that has liquid water isn't the only place where there's liquid water underneath Antarctica there's a subglacial groundwater system as well that could likely persist um up to a kilometer in parts of west Antarctica and it's likely this groundwater system exchanges water with this overlying freshwater subglacial hydrological system and therefore exchanges things like nutrients and carbon that's what's going to work okay so there's some kind of kind of exchange between this subglacial and this groundwater system this matters because of biogeochemical cycling um where there's water there's lice where there's water and sediments there's subglacial geochemical weathering actually um Colleen Hoffman and uh and Patricia Yeager did a really nice job of um presenting why iron is important for the southern ocean it's a limits in micronutrient in the euphosics zone of the southern ocean um and that's partly what motivates us to study subglacial environments in Antarctica and their importance potentially in delivering freshwater to the to the ice margin in the marine environment and I said we didn't there's been a whole raft of really neat research that's been done over the last decade or show showing active subglacial biogen chemical cycling in these environments um both hypothesized or modeled but also measurements from subglacial lake environments and also measurements from the drive Alex in Antarctica these are just a small example of the kinds of studies that have been done and some of these studies are indicating that subglacial waters that might be delivered to the marginal environments and into the marine environment could be enriched with things like iron um and this is the only uh data I'm going to show you in this in this short talk uh this is a um some data from a publication that we we put out a couple of years ago and I've highlighted iron there this is concentrations of these elements relative to the global riverine mean and uh mercer subglacial lake where this these samples came from there's really really high concentrations of filterable iron up to 10 micromolar filterable iron sometimes higher in some of the samples that we have um and this water is kind of slightly turbid this is the water after a year of just sitting it's got really high colloidal particle concentrations um and a lot of these colloidal particles carry some of these important micronutrients that could be important in some of these coastal marine systems uh but the only information we have on these subglacial waters in terms of their geochemistry or direct access anyway uh is from just two subglacial lakes that have been drilled into uh in this part of Antarctica just upstream of the Rosseyes shelf um and a host of uh studies that have been done in the Antarctic dry valleys so we're really limited in terms of spatial extent of subglacial meltwater um and member samples that we have so being a a non-oceanographer and someone who is possibly unlikely to use this new research vessel I thought well what could be the benefit to my kind of research and my community's research um and I spoke to some of my chemical ocean oceanography colleagues who are interested in some similar kinds of questions uh and these are just some of the ideas that I had that for discussion later so I think proximity to the ice front a lot of other people have talked about this getting towards the ice front if we're going to try and sample submarine groundwater that are coming from underneath the ice sheet or sub subglacial discharge we need to get as close to the ice front as we can obviously lead in edge science capabilities I put in here things like trace metal clean facilities I know uh the David Attenborough for example now has a dedicated clean room for doing trace metal work and I'm not sure if that's a possibility or not for the the new ARV and from a you know a selfish perspective subglacial research trying to look at questions like how much water is there that's being discharged from underneath the the Antarctic ice sheet where is it flowing to um how far out into the ocean is it guessing um it's residence time in there for geochemical signature all important questions that I think need answering and the overarching theme to this really is the biogeochemical importance of subglacial water is it important in terms of connectivity between freshwater and sea water and also can we contextualize modern observations in terms of past signals as well using some of my colleagues paleo and archive data and on that I'm sorry I've run slightly over but thank you thank you John um our next speaker Sean Gulick Sean is a research professor at the Institute of Geophysics associate chair in the Department of Geological Sciences and co-chair of the Center for Planetary Systems Habitability at the University of Texas at Weston great thanks very much um so my uh my role here is to talk about sub surface imaging basically around Antarctica and I'm going to do this sort of from the distal to the proximal so the map here on on the top left all the white lines are existing seismic lines of all different qualities and penetrations um and often we have a pretty good record um of the distal part of this so this is just an example for instance off the Amundsen sea that you see uh in the bottom left here that shows this transition from a pre-glacial world to the transitional into a full glacial and many of our best distal records like Sid talked about for instance come from uh drift deposits such as the one here shown off Wilkes land um where there's these wonderful ice-wrapped debris and in this chance to look at at the proxies that we can see but that the next level of this is to both um have additional subsurface imaging so we have the ability to do things like look at this volumetrically not just an individual single location so this example here in the top right off of uh Fritz Bay is a really good example of that where if there's dense enough uh seismic coverage or even in the future maybe 3d seismic coverage you can create maps or isopac maps of volumes of sediments that have come off of um given uh con you know conduits or given uh subglacial basin regions of Antarctica and be able to look at the history of um the ice and ocean and sediment interactions in the form of their final deposits uh into the marine environment um and then proxies within these can inform us about changes of the environment through time so um you know that's just an important argument I think for continuing the capability on the new ARV to have the ability to collect seismic data um and to then tie these sequences into coring and and and ocean drilling of one form or another to understand the record um and next slide please unless I can do it oh I can do it good okay um and and then as we move a little bit closer one of the challenges that has been true um since people have been trying to image the area around Antarctica is that in many cases the shelf to slope to deep sea transitions um are very difficult to map across and here's a good example from the Bellinghaus and sea on the top left where just the nature of how shallow it gets um at the shelf edge results in multiples um getting in the way of mapping the stratigraphy and just the slope sequences being thinner in several cases make it very difficult to make sure that the stratigraphy in the ages that we have of the deep sea can be accurately mapped into the into the shelf it's it's pretty doable places like the Rossi but there's a number of locations where either we simply don't have the data across the shelf edge or the data um has challenges to it due to just the geometry of the situation and so you know the importance of linking the proximal records to the distal record is hard to to overstate I think the solution in this that is something that's being explored now is increasing use of AUV technology such as this really great example um from Aligram um that was you know a multi-beam bathymetry study to study the the you know the proximal edges of the shelf but we need to have the ability to potentially think about also doing subsurface imaging these kind of capabilities which requires greater power and requires us thinking about things like an a-frame with enough um oomph to be able to deploy the larger um toad or auto autonomous vehicles such as uh just sort of this example down here from the right which is a currently uh being studied um possibility of a deep toad uh seismic vehicle that might be able to be used in a place like Antarctica and then next slide um so this is uh then moving into the proximal record and here we have um had great successes when we can get into Polinias we can break through the ice and then deploy data um within those kinds of environments and so this is an example from the Totten system on the Sabrina coast of east Antarctica where we can actually see those transitions again this ms1 to ms2 is this transition from a pre-glacial to a to a transitional glacial environment with things like tunnel valleys such as this example image from the North Sea from Julian Dowd's well in the bottom right um that represent a very meltwater rich kind of glacial environment um and and links to thinking about things like the sub-glacial water systems that we just heard about and then a transition up to the sort of modern uh polar uh systems but to understand this evolution through time of these different types of glacial systems and what's driving this ice ocean and ice sediment interactions is going to require sampling and if we uh think about it just from the standpoint of what type of sampling we can do the little red you know dots on here represent what piston coring can do the the yellow is then what happens if we get the jumbo piston coring kind of capabilities um and then the green represents what happens if we can get something like the Mevo 200 to be launched by our new ARV to be able to get these 200 meter sort of penetrations and actually have a chance to really understand um this kind of record so you know what what is needed again is you know the capability to do the seismic and multi beam and so on but also the capability to think about seabed or um icebreaker based drilling systems to really get into these proximal records and then tie it back into the deep sea thanks for your attention okay thank you Sean um we now have 10 minutes for questions and ish minutes for questions um if there's anyone in the audience who has one or any in Slido we have one from Slido yep and then if you have a question um this one's for Julia you talked about a coring technique that was best conducted through a moon pool that was cut retroactively and into the hull of the nbp will the lack of a moon pool negatively influence the kind of research you and others in your field might conduct in the future potentially yes um there are multiple ways to achieve that length of coring and Sean in fact just mentioned that there is a system called a mebo 200 which is a seafloor drilling rig there are also over the side drill systems so if we consider there to be a combined three different styles of how we might achieve long rotary core drills drilling from an icebreaker one is on the seafloor one is over the side and one is through a moon pool um the only one that's you know achieved some level of success actually through the U.S. Antarctic program so far is shallow drill it had two cruises in 2005 and 2006 again immediately after the moon pool it worked you know it would work again over the side system it looks promising in many ways and might be a good solution but there's a lot of unknowns about how it will operate in different sea states for example and then the mebo systems the seafloor systems i see two significant drawbacks to those i've not used one personally but they have proven only moderately successful in drilling through glacial sediments they have problems with over compacted sediments they have problem with cobbles and ice rafted debris and really struggle to achieve records there um and then the second problem with amoeba which may be overcome since my information has dated is that the umbilical on mebo systems is quite sensitive and it might not function well in a ship that's moving around to avoid ice so i would say the shallow drill style is um maybe a known reliable not perfect but possible system thank you julie okay um my question is for john and it kind of mirrors andi's question but i was wondering um what specific observations along coastal margins or key measurements might help you elucidate subglacial processes and i'm thinking like beyond iron measurements like seepage meters or other parameters that might require a development like sensor development or something like that well that's a that's a really good question um i kind of threw right in at the end uh something about um novel biogeochemical sensors or i might have mentioned sensors but as you know in in develop there are biogeochemical sensors that uh um that might be able to perform kind of autonomous measurements of things like iron underneath ice shelves and potentially up to the the grounding line um i've heard some great talks over the last couple of days demonstrating the power of these autonomous vehicles to get close to the grounding line and i think that's a really that's a really great way of potentially getting at some of these subglacial meltwater inputs directly um i'm sure there's also other geochemical traces that could be used like noble gases for example um you know certain isotopic traces as well that could be used to trace subglacial meltwater inputs so i think it's just combining all those different things but i think you know autonomous vehicles with novel biogeochemical sensors in the future thinking 10 20 years down the line could be one way of taking some interesting measurements very close to the grounding zone where we expect some of these waters to be coming out great thank you um matt do you have a question shon can you hear me there's a question for shon yes i can cool uh shon are there any other toad geophysical instruments uh that we should be thinking about for the arv that would be complimentary to great toad seismic everything things like controlled source em any other geophysical tools and what sort of uh requirements would that uh have yeah that's that's a really good question i think uh control source electromagnetic methods are better okay good to go okay great yeah i think controlled source electromagnetic no how about now yeah you guys get the zoom there you go now we're good okay okay great um yeah i think controlled source electromagnetic methods would be a great option um it requires um you know a reasonably sized a-frame and power capabilities um you know to be able to tell the larger um sources and receiver systems for those but you could envision that that would actually have the ability to potentially directly sense the the freshwater connection or the seawater freshwater interface in the subsurface on the shelf edges and as you approach ice margins i think that would be pretty exciting um and you could conceivably also do that with an aub component as well um so that's something to think about um and then you know there's also an opportunity there to pair that with you know marine uh with with drilling as well whether it's a mebo system or an oversized system you know those are those are something i think we should be thinking about that there's this not just the stratigraphy but we have the ability to think about where the water is and can we actually sample directly into those those systems for biogeochemical reasons thank you shon yeah okay all right so um we need to move on but we'll hold your questions in slido and uh you can approach our panel afterwards so i'd like to thank our panel for their great talks and this finishes our last session for today and we will move into breakout rooms similar to yesterday we will be using that group process of establishing both science priorities and essential capabilities um called the kj technique this method uses the sticky notes we worked with yesterday virtual and physical to kind of facilitate our discussion um we'll spend the first 30 minutes in each session brainstorming and the second um discussing techniques so first please decide if you would like to participate in a breakout room session that you see on the screen behind us on global climate and ocean circulation which is related to our first session today or if you would like to participate in a breakout room session on biota and ecosystems which is related to our second session or if you would like to participate in a session on shifting ice sheet and changes in erosion and biogeochemistry related to this session once you have identified the session you are interested in please go to the room indicated on the slide behind us and if you find the room full like yesterday feel free to migrate to another room yeah is there a question there um if you are a moderator facilitator or repertoire you should report to your signed room which is shown here a reminder that the repertoire will be reporting back um at the end of this for a full group discussion so please take notes thank you round of applause okay we see the slide alex can you see it yeah i can see it uh okay great go for it okay um yeah we had a small but very uh intense discussion and in the very good discussion i think um among this online group and um i think in terms of science priorities while we all have things we are interested and excited about we all agree that the very top two science priorities are um to really get at the co2 budget um the services to sinks um and how it responds to climate change and to really understand ice shelf ocean interactions and these are things that i think are certainly um um important on on a level that goes beyond all our interests and is important to society as a whole and the future um of society on this planet and if and how we can live on this planet so i think that this is really pressing priority and that came out very clearly uh in our discussion um three and four are uh transport processes and ci's and we thought that um these are the processes basically behind these two priority priorities so how uh the ocean circulation modifies um these components or these priorities how how it um leads to interaction between the shelf and the open ocean how deep convection works and how upwelling and stratification um um to understand upwelling and stratification processes basically um that that are all processes that lead to this um to the understanding of this first two priorities and the ci's um is is basically we thought would be an indicator a very good indicator of of the changes that are ongoing that we can observe and um have to understand how it varies in order to um also um understand the top two priorities and it's i think i would like to add it's not just an indicator but it can also really affect the ocean and modify it so um yes i think that's that was our summary of the science discussions in in terms of capabilities um the three key capabilities that i think we need to answer these questions is first of all to have the access to the ice covered region and i think that came out um throughout these two days um and that the ARV needs to be the vessel to do that um and capability number two is to really extend the range of the vessel while it's going into the ice to be able to observe larger temporal and spatial scales um scales around the ship um including going under ice shelves for example going under sea ice going deep in the ocean going further away from the ship and coming back and having the capability of deploy the instruments from the ship three is um a capability that we basically need to get at these budgets i think um we need a network throughout the southern ocean of different technologies new technologies existing technologies um tools or platforms um that provide um observations that are independent of the ships and that we can use to understand and monitor the wider changes of the southern ocean and we really need um the ship to to get to these places and deploy some of these tools but also to maintain them and um something that also came out that through something that goes through all of this be it at science capable uh science priorities or capabilities is international coordination uh we we cannot in as a southern ocean or Antarctic community i think we cannot just care about our own sector of the southern ocean um and and um do science there or or do um surveys in this sector but we have to coordinate we have to build arrays and sections that are useful to understand the overall budget um and and to help each other to maintain this network that we were talking about and also coordinate in terms of variables that we measure for example so i think that's that's most of what we have talked about as a summary okay i see international coordination down there at the bottom is that what you're talking about at the end yes so that's that's there at the bottom and we put it at the bottom because we think it goes over all over all of it and maybe one thing to add to this is that we think it should go through existing international um networks like SCAR or SUS that are in place to help with this and and that we have to leverage these great thanks okay we'll jump over to Sharon stammerchan um for the uh the local session on the same topic so it's good to see that we pretty much came to the same priorities and capabilities we may have ordered them a little differently um in the sense that we actually just went ahead and grouped everything under everything um so the first one understanding ice ocean interactions for example heat exchange and cryo cryospheric ocean impacts so here we're talking about all ice from glacial ice to sea ice uh so it kind of encompasses what alex just showed i think for really his one through four but three and four that added to the co2 and um the ice shelf ocean interaction so it's hard i mean it's going to be very difficult to kind of express our discussion that we just had because you can imagine it was in a lot of different places and basically one way to summarize that is we kind of want to look at the whole system and we felt that it was important or i kind of offered this up so please any one of my group chime in but um you really want to focus on the processes when we're talking about these priorities because then that gets to the question of what capabilities are needed to address that right so that was number one number two understanding sources and sinks of greenhouse gases in the role of the southern ocean so similar to what alex uh proposed for the first priority um there was also a bit of discussion and this ended up going into a priority three i think but really what is the ocean's role the southern oceans role in the global climate system as well so it's not only understanding how the southern ocean is responding how uh the sources and sinks of greenhouse gases are changing and actually modifying the southern ocean but in the role of the southern ocean and uh impacting global climate so hence three understanding how changes in southern ocean circulation and mixing and and mixing regulate the global heat budget so those are our three priorities pretty um pretty broad and very multi-disciplinary i think so getting to the capabilities so we have development and support for remote and autonomous platforms instrumentation for measurement of water column and sub-ice shelf processes so although this says so so we have water column and sub-ice shelf processes so we're looking at again that whole you know we talked about spatial domains and temporal domains but we're really talking about all the way from you know the the Antarctic ice sheet to the open ocean and so how can we develop capabilities so that we can support observations that cover that kind of spatial domain and we also need year-round access right but so in this particular instance though remote and autonomous platforms and water column and sub-ice shelf processes that's all it has to be ship-based enabled right in order to deploy those platforms um calibrate those platforms so the second capability access to the coasts and the ice shelf sub-ice shelf um coastal areas and that includes of course getting off the ship and onto the coastal areas so some kind of air support likely that would involve again and that's all part of the science priority one and two really ability to conduct year-round monitoring and so this was kind of interesting because the ability to conduct year-round monitoring that can include really one and two right it include this autonomous remote platforms and ship-based platforms so it also can encompass cyber infrastructure international multi-agency so it's it's a big kind of bucket really and then lastly overboarding capabilities for heavy equipment including but not limited to mooring to your physical and coring etc which is probably our more specific capability so I feel like I'm not doing our group's discussion justice and I would offer any additional comments we have looks like we have some time if anybody wants to offer I think we can agree that what Alex had outlined was very similar to our priorities and capabilities okay thank you so we'll move on to the ecosystem group and it looks like that's Allison did you have a merged group also you're reporting for both or yeah I think it was one on one yes yes yes David sir but like we have one listed here with Eileen too but those two merging okay okay um Heather did a great job at moderating um our sorry David we're gonna start with Allison oh okay bye sorry sorry David you can beat me up later so the science priorities that we had we had a pretty small group here with lots of thinking we got to it was a good brainstorming session and I don't think that these are particularly ranked I think that we they're they're quite evenly ranked the first though is ecosystem structure function and biochemical linkages this had the most stickies associated with it because they're it really is understanding the ocean um as as how the environment and organisms are functioning together and so there there was a lot of different ideas all under this kind of ecosystem bullet item the next one is adaptation resilience and evolution um with a lot of the ideas that I talked about earlier today but in in order to really understand um what is happening how Antarctic organisms how they're built in terms of their physiological resilience to withstand change and and even to understand some of the really basic properties of how they exist in really high oxygen super saturated surface waters and high uv are there's a lot of really specific uh southern ocean features that by the biota have adapted and and getting being able to understand this beyond maybe a few model taxa is I think important as is understanding the evolution of life we have a poor understanding of even how many organisms are endemic to the Antarctic um the third item is biodiversity and or in protected areas and all of the science that is related really to support Antarctic conservation this is a big thematic area under scar today um but we are knowledgeable about um a small amount of the biodiversity in Antarctica and the vast amount of it were very um that is holds lots of um lack barriers to understanding a lot of it due to access a lot of it due to our fact that we're normally there in summer um and let's see I think it changed we have slide glitch there it is thank you um and for capabilities uh we our first set of capabilities we're all sort of under the umbrella of access to the near shore in what hasn't you know similar ideas would have been set in other groups um but also to the deep sea and um the deep sea environments are widely under sampled in Antarctica there are a lot of unique habitats um sea mounts hydrothermal vents cold seeps um the under ice regions under ice shelves that are really interesting from a biological perspective um and I think there was a big theme about having sampling access over over the annual cycle and in winter specifically um developing sensors and sampling instruments and support systems um sensors for biochemistry biogeochemistry having clean rooms potentially genome sequencing there's really small little genome sequencers you can stick in your briefcase um ROVs helicopters maybe even a submersible um or at least a ship that could host a submersible um large volume water samplers modern net systems for catching but not destroying the plankton you're trying to sample there's modern systems for doing in situ cell imaging bio optical sensors zooplankton collection um we talked about the need for computational and it needs both uh at sea as well as uh at our on land um having broadband access and potentially a high performance cluster on the ship for doing modeling and if we're doing genome sequencing for doing processing of the data um we talked about teamwork and collaboration and really how important this is on the ship and um having uh pre-planning meetings training highly functional integrated teams to go to sea um partnering um and establishing uh maybe facilitating international partnerships um both bringing international participants with us but also us going to uh sailing with other countries uh we asked the question is 60 days at sea enough for most of the needs that we had we think so um and we also discussed a little bit of the idea of how the ship is going to work in this sort of ship planning when you have this large ship that can have you know 55 berths what happens when you have small teams and how do you best organize um the use of the ship with small research teams and them working together if they're together or yeah however that works um is there anything else that I left out when people are group great thanks Allison okay David uh if you you're still there uh that's you had the virtual session on ecosystems David Aenling um is there another set oh okay um okay so we uh relatively small group um we talked about um integrative studies to better understand midwater food webs as well as the connection between um the midwater food web and the bentos um and I want to say that we're talking here about high latitude coastal ecosystem which is dominated by continental shelves and slopes um and in this world um Polinias are biological hot spots um um so but anyway um there's been a lot of work on you know apatrophic level creatures and there's also been appreciable work at least in the raw sea um on the on the uh assessment of the composition species composition of benthic communities um but there hasn't been yet any like integration of the two um so that seems to be one um priority um I think uh work at McMurdo Sound and particularly Correra lab has been a hallmark of work on physiology and adaptation of Antarctic organisms um as well as the genetic um you know aspects of these adaptations um and McMurdo um you know as a this is the place um in the western McMurdo Sound there's an oligotrophic ocean because the the water there comes out from under the McMurdo ice shelf and it's as quote unquote gin clear there's nothing in it so it is an oligotrophic system totally different from the eastern sound where the water flows in from the raw sea and it's like a soup um and so the the community in the eastern sound is like totally contrast to the western sound and so this offers um an amazing like chance to compare these two sorts of systems um and to you know and so um working out with organisms to how they um hope with these two different types of systems um would be a way to continue to go um um and this sort of leads into um biodiversity of um organisms again the raw sea is rich and um critters um there's like 400 species were first described in the raw sea but I really don't know how far along gotten in terms of their um genetic uh signatures um but um certainly this is um an area where there's much potential um so um those are science priorities well I should say you know there's been a lot of work at Palmer Station and um but and it's really elegant work that's happened there um but Palmer Station system is not anywhere comparable to the southern raw sea continental shelf system um and so complementary work um continue in both areas um and it would that that's really the contrast is is really instructive um okay so in terms of capabilities um well um you know I at least made the case that the Murdoch Sound fast I said an incredible platform for conducting science um group talked about having small boat um access but I believe that mostly applies to Palmer Station um it uh there you know over the years everyone's you know while someone suggests it could be some small boat work in McMurdo Sound but um I don't know is it logistics and safety considerations maybe put a quash on that sort of thing but um you know further work with these small boats over Palmer um could well um enhance the science that goes on there um there and um McMurdo Sound there's incredible access to creatures from the fast ice um and there is a well-outfitted aquarium system at at Prairie Lab um and so it has some work on um you know using live animals and looking at how they adapt to uh changing a changed ocean like a warmer water versus colder water um there has been some work at Palmer Station in the aquarium there but it's that system is not as um well outfitted as the system at um Prairie and um so some work could be done there um to improve the aquarium system that Palmer um that sort of gets into the third um attribute here which pretty much I I covered um McMurdo McMurdo system has been underutilized over the last 10 years or so um for reasons beyond my pay grade um um and um as I said the Aquaria Palmer apparently needs some work to make them more minimal to um additional or further or continued research uh I think I covered what we covered um so thank you thank you great thanks David okay we'll move on to uh one of the sessions on erosion that met room 120 um so that refter Sydney Heming I think it's oh are you gonna tag team it oh you combine yeah okay we got a tag team with John Hawking so let the mud wrestling begin you want me to stop yeah the one that's up is actually the virtual virtual uh Sean you're you did run the virtual session Sean yeah and that's okay we'll we'll get to you in a minute thanks yep so there were two of us okay perfect um so all three science priorities I kind of interlinked and kind of go hand in hand with each other I'm thinking no particular order really um apart from the number of votes that they got each but when we had a discussion they kind of all came out around the similar kind of priority level uh the first is current sediment delivery processes and provenance um so where the sediment is coming from today so it's contemporary processes what is its composition um erosion rates underneath the ice uh then we're going on to uh past ice and paleo climate um how much how fast and that's basically taking the knowledge that we gained from the process studies for current uh sediment delivery and the proxies that are developed as a result um and and connecting that to coring records of the the sediments offshore again helping to feed into that is the the provenance of the sediment that we that we thought were priority for contemporary processes then the final one we have a subglacial and we kind of group that into groundwater freshwater fluxes and terrestrial hydrology um so that's really about subglacial meltwater flux from the ice to ocean again contemporary based uh with a terrestrial hydrology focus how much water is there um what is its composition where is it coming out it's really important for things like stratification but also coastal chemical composition and also number of physical processes are strongly tied to the amount of meltwater coming out subglacially such as circulation underneath the ice shelf ice shelf melt um and again the that tying back into informing us about past ice and paleo climate as well and then onto capabilities yeah but uh high priority for capabilities is being able to do uh drilling and coring um and that's basically so that we can obtain um sedimentary records um near the ice on the shelf and even offshore and get uh long and continuous records we want to be able to look at um the the processes and the time scales of processes I think as well because this keeps on coming up amongst you know both days and a lot of different groups um Amy LaVenta would mention that there's kind of a strong need for a workshop particularly on on drilling processes and options in the future that should involve both scientists and and engineers and you know an international cohort for that as well um and I believe the design team has been talking to the OSU core repository for that um to figure out kind of drilling options into the future the second one is again come has come up quite a number of times but that's AUV ROV stroke drone support um and we talked about the making sure that deployment recovery and tracking infrastructure is incorporated into the vessel which I'm sure it will be but also things like deck space of electronics there's going to be a lot of deck space on the vessel already which is great but making sure the electronics uh you know state of the art of able to tie in quite closely with deploying these kinds of these kinds of vessels um and we also talked about potential sampling and sensing capabilities for these drones so remote sampling of water and sediment underneath the ice shelf in particular and getting close to the grounding line as as close to the ground as line as possible and also incorporating next generation sensing both kind of funding to support the development of next generation sensing so biology chemical sensors which again came up in in one of the previous um discussions and the shipboard geophysics and also that's basically to connect the dots between the modern processes that are going on and the the sort of preparation for um exploring with the sediment cores as well so we think that the ship ought to have uh capability for doing um surveys with seismic and we also think that it should support geophysical measurements from the um any AUV ROV capabilities and the final thing that we discussed in terms of capabilities and that is that we knew that the new research vessel would be a class III ice breaker which is great but it was brought up a couple of times that um station keeping is very important particularly for facilitating some of the drilling um capabilities that we we thought would be really important in terms of the the science priorities and just in general it was brought up and we all agreed that having sustained sustained support for the engineering and design modeling ability to support the the ROVs and AUVs and communications would be really important to keep in mind I hope we have all the key pointers but anyone else in the group is anything else they mentioned great okay thank you we'll move on uh to hear from the the virtual session on uh erosion that um was has rapporteur Sean Gulick out in the right thanks can you hear me yeah right I think others slide yeah it was just there there it is perfect okay so uh we had a small but um very engaged group um and kind of fairly quickly narrowed in on some really key science priorities uh under these these topics um primarily was um number one was mapping and characterizing the eroded products from from from the glacial systems um and so that's on sort of all scales and and both time and space so both proximal and to the to the distal record um that that we also then had a key priority in the world of meltwater fluxes so understanding meltwater fluxes their properties the pathways in the marine environment both you know at the seabed but also being able to characterize what's happening under the ice shelves and then both of these things understanding the sedimentary record and understanding melt water um kind of feed in to the effort that's required in modern glacial dynamics and ice sediment interactions that's probably really critical to understanding the whole system um just not directly the capability required for the shift but from a science perspective it's really important that those communities um continue to talk some areas that we didn't spend as much time on partly just to who was in the room um were the hazard side you know we mentioned the the hazards of large icebergs um hazards of submarine failures um but just mentioned them also talked about the need to probably better understand the solid ice flux process and even the mechanism of delivery of of ice rafted debris since that's one of our proxies once we get to the deep sea um in terms of capabilities uh had also a lot of agreement um we kind of tried to group them a little bit so one is you know the ship-based observational capabilities all the the things you would expect the CTDs multi-beam systems sub-bottom profilers like chirps um ADCPs and long-goring systems that would be part of the ship facilities but then also the ship's capability to deploy key systems such as seismic reflection um systems controlled source electromagnetics um drilling uh systems such as as the mebo or or if there wasn't over the side possibility um AUVs um and then even the possibility of thinking about small vessels where the ship could be a mother ship not just for AUVs or ROVs but also potentially for small vessels that could go in and do either on ice teams um or or proximal sampling um so so sort of thinking about this as a a bit more uh flexible space where it can be kind of a mother ship if you will both for AUVs and for crewed operations and then all of these require you know the obvious things enough deck space for things like the AUV vans for the seismic systems or if the the compressors are not built into the hull then then you need space for those and then bunk space because a lot of these kinds of uh systems require a lot of technical support in addition to the science support and then storage if we're going to do quite a bit of coring or quite a bit of you know drilling related activities you need space to put the cores so that's a really key uh constraint I think and then looking out into the future you know future technological developments are really needed in this world of AUV especially for AUV based imaging and sampling in these kind of environments um but then also if you ever did not a seabed drill but a over-the-side drill then we would need to think about automatic heave compensation as a technological development in that setting um and I completely occur with the comment about potentially a workshop in this area of the best way to drilling in the Antarctic would be excellent and I think uh I didn't if I missed anything hopefully the group will will chime in thanks great thanks Sean uh okay thanks uh to all of our rapporteurs and uh everyone who participated in the in the breakouts we are going to have a 15 minute break now uh and but stick around there's more and we did change up the the afternoon uh integrated uh discussion a little bit uh so I'm gonna pass to Caroline here who will explain that to everyone all right um for the last breakout um we're gonna have one in-person breakout room and that's going to be in the lecture hall um we will as Ellen said have a break so here it's 3 15 we'll please be in the lecture room um at 3 30 we'll come back here um following or we'll have our breakout room until 4 15 and then come back and we'll do the last report outs um any and there is a virtual um uh version as well uh run from room 114 and and just one one thought as you're going into break and into the breakout rooms we're gonna have the discussion kind of uh around looking at all of the different capabilities that came out of the other session rooms all right ready break so we really value everybody's diligence and input and thoughtful responses over the last couple of days and can't thank you enough for all of your help the science talks were just phenomenal as was the discussion so I greatly appreciate it on behalf of the committee second um thank you to NSF for showing up and supporting um and answering lots of questions and being there to help us through our thought process um so we can get the best report that's the most impactful for what they would like to achieve and then lastly just a final thank you to all of the staff um from the national academies for just a phenomenal job um Margo um Miles Caroline everybody who supported it the breakout sessions um this just went so smoothly so I can't thank you all enough okay so rapid tours or really rapid tour um would you please come in sit at the table and I don't know did the virtual have an in-person raptor okay so both of you oh online okay so we have one person online and one person and I think is Moe gonna do the brief out or I don't know if she's not here we could start with the okay so um so we'll now hear from the session that met in the board room um and the rapid tour for that was um Moe Walzak please um it says please keep your remarks to five minutes but I think you can utilize the time to the extent you need to because we only have two yeah well I can go I mean like Alan is I can talk super fast okay all right so um I uh was trying to follow a very fast-paced conversation and work things into organizational structure that maybe is wrong so let's just start with this and see where we go so I have first critical science needs we critically need to understand how much sea level rise and how fast that sea level will rise or how fast that sea level rise will occur associated with retreat of Antarctic outlet glaciers and failure of the Antarctic ice sheets we need to understand interactions between the ocean and Antarctic cryosphere ranging from sea ice and floating ice shelves to the interior of the ice sheet to better predict stability of these environments in the periods of the future we specifically note that grounding zone processes are critical importance in constraining these uh processes because why not say processes a lot we need to accurately understand with the greatest degree of precision possible air sea gas exchange in the southern ocean this is essential to understanding one of the largest non-geologic sinks and potential sources of greenhouse gases in the world as an extension of all these processes combined we need to understand how changes in global climate and ice sheet stability will feedback into changes in circulation in the southern ocean which in turn impacts global heat budget and co2 budgets last but not least we need to document and understand the Antarctic and southern ocean biosphere which is among the most productive on earth and we believe is changing rapidly due to increasing fishing pressure tourism and climate change we note developing an understanding of these deeply interconnected dynamic systems critical to our economic and national security requires coordination and collaboration between the oceanographic and geologic glaciologic community without the comprehensive access to the southern ocean Antarctic continent and its underlying sedimentary records to be supported by this vessel we are ceding critical societally relevant global scientific leadership we know that Norway Australia the UK South Africa China Italy India France and Korea among others have Antarctic research vessel platforms that exceed current American capabilities so with regards to critical ship based infrastructure the development and support of AUV and ARVs are considered critical for Antarctic research needs across the board so we also need to be thinking about potential use of the vessel over its entire lifetime and ability to serve future needs with long-term and year-round monitoring the ship should ideally be capable of deploying and servicing such as would be served by semi-permanent infrastructure for example moorings cable to raids acoustic networks and other types of instruments yet to be determined capable of capturing a variety of processes over a full annual cycle we also need the ability to support divers including a decompression chamber we need access to the seafloor understanding the paleo-environmental record of ocean temperature circulation productivity sea ice cover and ice sheet retreat is a critical component of understanding processes that occur beyond the observational scale and constraining dynamics warming worlds where ice sheets have been stabilized in the past this will require infrastructure to support long term long sediment core collection as well as deep sea drilling we reviewed the capabilities from different sessions and discussed recurring cross-session themes of a need for ice shelf shore and archipelago access but also shallow water down to around 50 meter access when sea ice conditions will allow emphasis on the point that without the ability to use this vessel to some extent as a mothership we will be disenfranchising a significant portion of the scientific community and the important science they do emphatic importance is on a highly capable workboat but we also have need for a helicopter as there is really no other way to access ice shelves blast fast-blowing and grounded ice is dangerous with fixed wing uh fixed wing craft we need to be able to access ice camps over 20 kilometers from shore for geodetic and geological sampling and areas armored by heavy over 1.5 meter sea ice we note that under subscription of helicopter capabilities is likely a result of institutional dysfunction this would be addressed if there were interdisciplinary calls for helicopter access finally a lack of helicopter capability is a safety issue in the most remote field environment on earth there is attention to the need to scale there is attention to the need to scale the operational budget to maximize the capabilities of the ship but as part of this one of the costs of not developing infrastructure to service shore and ice shelf based science and limiting that access to just McMurdo and Palmer the same core programs will ultimately have to cover the complex logistics and extensive costs of reaching remote parts of the Antarctic margin and continent from these two stations via helicopter or other methods if the science needs to be done which we all believe it does we would submit that for the vessel to be maximally efficient in service of us science interests and our funding agencies we don't just need the ability to land a helicopter we need the ability for sustained support we recognize this would involve mobilization costs and fuel are there other considerations that we are failing to understand with regards to why the design cannot include shore based access we would appreciate a dialogue with nsf on this point and feel we can provide robust scientific justification for this capability and support of a request for congressional appropriation adequate for meeting the actual needs of the us Antarctic scientific community could interagency partners be identified to help support these costs and if additional funding is flatly impossible what would we have to sacrifice to get this capability and are those sacrifices acceptable finally we have non-ship based but still critical infrastructure for Antarctic research other important community needs include upgrading experimental facilities at McMurdo and Palmer we also need ongoing continuous support for modeling and engineering we need those support we and those need to be supported at a community-wide or facility basis as opposed to being sporadically supported through individual projects this directly ties to the need for improved sustained cyber infrastructure for data management to facilitate biological and ecosystem data integration data management architecture of go ship and r2r could be a good model for this that's all i got and just so for the official record the things that were happening very quickly at the end was a discussion of how operational considerations need to be a part of this as well as the importance of balancing not just scientific leadership which a lot of this is focused on but also basically economic interests and an autonomy as well as national defense and so those can those all combine in terms of the appropriateness of assuming that international collaborators are the solution for all of our needed extensions of the logistics of this vessel so it's a great opportunity to do that the other things that came up were the opportunities so it was mentioned a bit about specific calls for helicopter-based in yeah basically infer bruises that would include specifically that capability versus requiring folks to propose for an entire cruise so this this might be a way to maximize that investment and then an additional thought was in is it basically in in using that both as a science platform but also to increase the range of the vehicle or the vessel itself so there was a few other points that were made at the very end and wanted to make sure that we caught those is there anything else we're putting that you do know or NASA yeah sorry the the the point was that Noah and and NASA would be necessarily supportive of such in such an endeavor but it's most likely the responsibility of NSF in going into that Antarctic support budget we'll email these notes to the all the raptors from the session and we can have our practice and then just on that last point we had just started in that session getting into the interagency international collaboration and support and I think Allison mentioned there's now a high-level working group between NASA and NSF about improving collaboration in many areas and I will say you know from my past experience having multiple agencies come to budget discussion hearing or something like that and agreeing that something for one agency is a priority and it's important for the US in general is a very powerful thing to happen okay so even if there weren't to be any financial support having unilateral support for investment in one agency for capability that's national it's actually extremely important so thank you that was a wonderful report back I think we're going to hear from our other repertoire online Doug Wiens hello so we had a spirited online discussion and you know we just we didn't discuss so much the science needs but more how well we didn't discuss the science itself but we did discuss how the science needs went across many of the different groups so almost all the groups talked about access to land and sea ice you know preferably in many cases with a helicopter people noted that you know there's some comment about how infrequently helicopters have been used but that is because of the way that they're managed and they've been requested many many times and not been available people noted that helicopters are permanently located on other ships like the Polar Stearn and they also noted that there's sort of different ways of operating different ships and the the question is how will the you know how will the ARV be operated you know 20 15 to 20 years from now will it be the PI the single PI model that we usually use in the US or is it like a collection of groups like some other countries use these are all sort of things to consider but in terms of the access question people noted that many areas like especially east Antarctica coastal regions are grounding lines where there's a lot of crevasses and so forth can really only be reached by sea and so the ship needs to have a capability to help us reach these areas otherwise we can't reach them at all and you know the feeling of the group was that the needs for access hadn't really been adequately considered so far and there really needs to be a study that you know that would show the trade-offs of of maybe incorporating different sizes of helicopters possibly on the ship and how that would trade off with other capabilities things like do we really need 55 births and so forth if it if it means giving up access to large parts of the earth so that was a pretty extensive discussion we also talked about drones and that's a really exciting thing that will develop considerably over the next 15 years they're currently not people pointed out they're currently not useful really due to the regulations very tightly regulated their uses and they're also technically not capable enough to do a lot of the work that we would want to do say out of helicopters or fixed wing aircraft but they'll probably evolve substantially over the 10 to 15 years before the ARV becomes operational and so there needs to be a lot of design flexibility built into the ARV to to accommodate where the drones evolve in the next you know in the next 10 to 15 years so that they're the that were not kind of locked into some idea of how the drones are going to operate which might be you know obsolete by 10 to 15 years from now another thing that we talked about was the need for crustal scale seismic imaging and it was unclear to us from looking through the documents we were given whether there was capabilities for that such as built-in compressors capability for large streamers on the ship and you know so that's something that probably needs to be evaluated whether you know those capabilities would be available given the current design and finally it was mentioned that a really important capability that we sometimes don't think about right away is communication capability the ability to send large volumes of data back from the ship in real time is really an essential thing all right thank you so much that was great and I loved slightly different perspectives than the other group which is really super helpful um questions last minute thoughts by anybody everybody's ready for a beer don't blame you all right well that marks the end of our workshop thank you everybody thank you to the committee and have a very safe trip home everyone thank you