 Okay, we're back at day two of Node Summit. I'm John Furrier, the founder of siliconangle.com, siliconangle.tv, and we're proud to be at Node Summit. For day two of live interviews, wall-to-wall coverage, yesterday, day one, we interviewed, we've got about 20, 25 interviews of great entrepreneurs, developers, executives, really the thought leaders, and the folks really building this new community. And they're all geeks, but they're all in business to make money and do some good for the world, and the development world, and build great apps. Day two is a little bit different here at Node Summit. This is what they call the Node Jam, and Node Jam is where all the startups who are really playing with Node, and really commercializing some of their ideas and visions into product. And so we've got great teams of people, great product opportunities, and the social community, if you will, is all here, and it's really exciting, and I'm proud to be here with theCUBE. theCUBE is siliconangle.tv's flagship telecast. We go out to the events, and we set up our HD studio. We talk to the most important, smartest people we can find, and we don't care if they're entrepreneurs, developers, executives. If they got knowledge, we want to extract that and share that with you, and we're proud to be here. And it's going to be exciting. So today's going to be pretty much a laid back, pretty much a chill environment. We're going to talk candidly with the entrepreneurs, what are they working on, and some of the hot trends and products we're seeing. So our first guest is Matt Rainey, who is the co-founder, Voxer, and I'm joined with Clint Finley, who's managing editor of our new devopsangle.com, our section on silicon angle, going into the node world and understanding the operational and engineering side of it. Clint, welcome back. Matt, welcome to theCUBE. Thanks. First time in. Good to have you. We're going to be a little loose. So let's just jump right in. You have the company Voxer. It's been very popular. As they say, you know, Neval from AngelList is here. He talks about social proof. You have some social proof. You have people using your app. So tell us about Voxer for the folks out there. What are some of the product features? And then share with us just some highlights of the success that you've had just recently. Sure, sure. So Voxer is, you know, we call it a walkie-talkie. And it's sort of, we're trying to make a modern, like, more useful way to do, like, walkie-talkie kind of behaviors. Like, the, um, the issue that we're coming up against, now that we have these mobile phones everywhere, mobile phone, it's like, you can have a phone call anytime you like, but do you actually want that? Like, increasingly no. People find phone calls are, you know, they interrupt them. It's kind of a pain when you get a phone call. And so what we're trying to do is get sort of the etiquette of text messaging, but let you use your voice to do that. So it doesn't interrupt, but if you still want to be live, you can still be live. And it sounds complicated, but I mean, before we get into some of the technical coolness of what you guys are doing with Node and everything else, which we're going to go deep dive in, Clinton and I were playing with your app on Monday night, and it's really cool. And for folks out there who want to try to understand this product, it's basically a text message with voice. And for the older folks out there, like me, who know about Nextel, and you see people push to talk, and then you can just chat with a talk like at a construction site, or when you had people in the service business, nextel pioneer that kind of push to talk concept. Here it's a little bit different. You're doing essentially a voice message, that's a text message kind of thing to oversimplify it. That's correct. Yeah, I mean it is voice. Like it's not transcription. It's not converting your voice into text, but it's letting you use your voice with the social etiquette of text. Like it's not interrupting you, but like voice is really nice. It conveys nuance and subtlety and just character and emotion and so people do want to use their voice, we think, and not just always type everything. Voice is a useful way to talk to people and it just doesn't fit in the sort of modern kind of, with the etiquette of modern mobile telephony. Yeah, I mean we know, we have the Cube and we have obviously audio and video, but I get taken out of context a lot of my blog posts when I do a lot of tongue-in-cheek and people are like, what are you saying, get offended. So voice gives you that natural feeling of that. And the other thing that Clint and I were talking about when we were talking to some of the developers on that Monday night meetup, Thirsty Bear was a lot of the times we get hyped up in products in Silicon Valley and developers in an echo chamber of hype and fun sometimes. But really when you hear average people say, oh I love this app, it's amazing. So Clint, share your story about your friend who kind of showed you and said, you got to get on this. I have a friend who I've been hearing about Boxer for over a year now because you guys are using Node.js and RIOC, so the stuff that I've been following. But then I started hearing about it from my friends. From your non-technical friends. Yeah, from non-technical people. They're fanatical about it. I had known about the app, but I'd never actually even downloaded it and so now suddenly I'm hearing not Node.js evangelist, but from print reporters and from airline travel workers of like, oh this is great. I love to use this app while I'm driving because I don't have to look at it and I don't have to touch it. It's definitely gaining a lot of traction outside of the tech community and I understand you've hit some milestone numbers recently. Yeah, well before I deflect that question let me let me also just say that hearing something like that like what you said, like how people are telling you about it like as a person who writes software, like that is the absolute great, I mean that is why we write software, so it's super great. I just, ugh. While you're happy now, just tell us historically the numbers. It's definitely, well you can see, you can look in the you can go to the iOS app store and you can look in the social networking category and you can see which has the usual suspects and you can see which position we are in and which position we've been in for almost a month, which is to say above Facebook and I'm not to say I mean everybody's on Facebook, like no surprise there, but the surprise is we have been above Facebook for a long time and like lots and lots of people are downloading this app in this country and around the world. It's very cool, congratulations I think you got lightning in a bottle and I think when we look back on this Cube interview we'll be like wow that company really went on a rocket ship remember us small guys when you're famous but let's talk about the team, let's talk about you guys up there and you guys so you write code and you're really happy but seeing the results manifest itself. Talk about the team that you guys have within Voxer and talk about some of the talent you have. Sure, so I mean we have a lot of people working on Node we have some sort of Node celebrities, we have Danny Coates who did Node Inspector we have Daniel Shaw who's done various things with MongoDB and just well known in the community we're looking to recruit more people to work on Node be they Node celebrities or not but we've got some people working on iOS and some people working on Android and we're always looking for more. Cool, well let's talk about Node we're at the Node Summit you guys have a lot of challenges we were talking last night with David Floyer our chief I.O. researcher at wikibon.org and we were talking about I.O. and it's a challenge and we were talking about latency and it's a constant chase the latency problem so before we get into the latency deep conversation let's talk about the challenges with your application and then where Node really came in to help you I mean because we're talking about the old ways of doing things you know you nail something down a process and you have it and you kind of don't fix it so talk about some of the latency issues around and what Node does for you Yeah, so we have a funny sort of architecture and that we're trying to be as low latency as possible like we're trying to be absolutely live as you know absolutely as fast as we can get data through our system we want to do that but we also need to make a copy of it in case you want to come in later or you're offline at the time or whatever and so that has been basically like the big win with Node is that we can shuffle data through our system incredibly quickly we can hold open lots and lots of connections either be they very short lived very low latency connections or we can keep much longer lived ones open to a database or processes writing to disk drives somehow being able to hold open all of those connections and has been crucial to us being able to kind of scale this up and keep delivering low latency that we need to do so it's been a big win Klan what's your take on this you've been following these guys what's your take on all this Well actually I would rather answer that with another question but I wonder what role has Node and the rest of your stack because there's other interesting things in the stack besides Node how has that helped you scale because you've been growing so fast and I can't help but think that some of your success has been your own scalability if people started downloading the app and it wasn't working the adoption I imagine probably wouldn't really be there but some people have criticized Node Node as a sort of premature optimization I'm wondering about you know you have what seems like a really scalable stack how has that helped you so well I mean as you say like if we couldn't have scaled it up obviously it wouldn't work and then people wouldn't be able to use it and so we were able to so a lot of people say oh Node doesn't scale like you know you need something that can scale and it does like nothing scales by itself like you have to do some work I mean even if the work is setting up your web app behind a load balancer I mean it doesn't nothing scales by itself and so the work that we put into our application logic made it so that it scales with Node the sort of the real reason like to the first part of your question is like the thing that wins is like using HTTP for everything and Node in Node HTTP is a first class citizen and it's effortless to do HTTP and it's effortless to do JSON and so that's what we use as a protocol and that's worked out really well and because Node does so well at this we are able to build up several kind of service tiers you know several layers of our application stack on the back end that all talk to each other JSON over HTTP and likewise with RIOC that has been a big win because we can talk to RIOC with HTTP and Node does that really really well and that's been a big reason that we were able to scale this up so what's next for you guys now obviously give us a status of the company where you guys at in terms of employees funding and all that good stuff so we're in the process of raising some more money we obviously know that we have a lot more users it's a lot more expensive so we are trying to you're hosting all your own stuff you're not in the cloud what does that mean exactly you're not using Amazon are you we're not using Amazon we started using Amazon because you're supposed to and we could not get the latency numbers that we needed it was too unpredictable and too crazy and so we went to soft layer and we got bare metal machines there it was really good value for your money for our money but the problem was at the end of the day Linux we have these weird IO mysteries these weird latency mysteries and we couldn't figure out what they were so we are actually moving our whole deal to joint right now and so we've already in the parts of our operation that are on joint we've already been able to find some just crazy crazy just impossible performance problems that we were able to kind of suss out with the magic of detrace cool so in terms of funding have you taken funding so far self-funded it's been self-funded right so you're looking for around financing yeah yeah we're in the process right now and sure you're going to get a lot of term sheets I definitely invest in you guys I really love what you guys are doing I think it's exciting I think you push in the envelope and I think the app is just dead simple great so and I think it's got a lot of head room possibly video maybe oh yeah absolutely I mean the infrastructure supports video we just haven't put it into the clients yet great so I mean you know what else is coming soon is like browser client like there'll be a browser version of Voxer it's going to be awesome and it will sort of sync up with all of your content you know kind of like like Gmail you know like you can get your stuff from any computer that has a web browser it works the same with our with our mobile phones it's just usually mobile phones more personal you don't usually share your mobile phone but all you can have multiple devices and it all sinks already so we're going to have a browser version and probably some kind of a follower model so right now we're symmetric like Facebook what about like integration with Skype or something like that yeah maybe I don't know I mean the thing that Skype does is they do really good phone calls over IP networks and our thing isn't really phone calls it's kind of somewhere in between like phone calls and text messaging and maybe maybe something I mean Skype is really good audio I just think about it because I live in Skype a lot for me too honestly so I was just thinking it might be nice to be able to get my Voxer messages in Skype so not not calls but just get the notifications and be able to play them in Skype yeah I mean so soon we'll probably also I mean I'm not sure when it's going to happen in the in the long-term vision but we want to expose an API you know and so then maybe we would do that maybe somebody will will mash up Skype and Voxer and get you get you what you're looking for there but yeah I hope to open up an API so that people can build all kinds of interesting voice apps using our back end what are you guys thinking in terms of like you know in terms of infrastructure side of it in terms of we talked to the CEO of Blacko and Rich Screnta and they told me that everything's in SSD for them they're running a pretty cool search engine and really doing a great job over there you're looking at the flash and your architect do you have any purpose built kind of hardware are you going to go off the shelf and get like HP Dell boxes or you know that kind of thing so right now we use what I don't even really know what kind of computers they are I mean we ask our hosting provider to give us computers and then they do but no no special architecture in terms of I.O. on the hardware side we have I mean some one of our Realt clusters is on SSDs and another one is on big spinning disk arrays because we don't ever throw away messages we let you keep your messages forever and so that's a lot of storage it doesn't quite make sense to keep all that on SSD so those are an ever growing collection of disk arrays you guys are a good prospect for the EMC's of the world out there HP EMC so great except maybe not because we're using React to scale out our storage and we're not using a big sand like we're just using individual computers to add more storage we just get on the computer with more storage and React spreads it out yeah cool well Matt congratulations on the great app voxer go to the app store download and check it out I'm sure it's going to be a big hit with everyone from kids up to adults travelers but no further the whole world I mean it's a global web right I mean you know you add in social capabilities like following you can really create you know I mean group me with you know look at the shared text messaging it's just a matter of time before voice becomes that we come back to voicemail yeah yeah I mean yeah yeah well thanks thanks so much we're here inside the cube with Matt the co-founder founder co-founder co-founder of voxer check it out voxer.com and check out the app it's growing faster than Facebook and Twitter in terms of the iStore I made that up implied that from the conversation I think you could actually conclude that but the algorithm is secret for the app store rankings we'll dig into it we'll be following that we'll do some investigative reporting congratulations thanks so much thanks for coming inside the cube Matt Rainey with voxer with Clint Finley and we'll be right back in five minutes with more interviews the cube is this conceptual box if you will we bring people inside of the cube and then we share ideas but those ideas don't stay inside the cube we explode that idea we allow that idea to grow and grow and it does so we really try to own the whole enterprise technology space and that's what we're all about we take analysis we take publishing we take news and we take live TV and we combine it together in a product and share that with our community no one's doing what we're doing what we're doing in my opinion is the future of media the future of television the future of the internet video is an amazing powerful product so we work in what John and I talk about as a data model people always say how do you guys make money we sell knowledge we sell information we sell data so the problem that we are identified is about what we call big fast total data anybody can analyze a gigabyte of data if you do a thousand gigabytes that's a terabyte of data you take a thousand terabytes that's a zedabyte of data so you are talking big data lots and lots of data and can you analyze it in real time as it comes in right the cube is like we call ESPN of tech because we want to cover technology like ESPN covers sports John has a great vision for what's going to happen next in tech and so John is sort of that alter ego of mine that lets me see the future Michael Sean right Mark Hopkins you know we've got Kim here today we've got a team we've got a team of people on our news desk run by Kristen Nicole so she has a team that helped feed us the news of the day what's happening the analysis we have a team of analysts may feed us information about what's happening and then really importantly we have a community a big community of many hundreds of contributors we love technology we love we love the innovation and that's what we do we want to create a great user experience and in order to do that properly you've got to really really prepare the cube for the past year that we've been in operation has been very very successful and you know companies do pay us to come here I think the companies who bring us in with the cube get two things they get a third party independent resource to provide knowledge to their audience who are seeking it this demand for the product and also compliments their existing media we're here at an event and the company has their own TV organization and they have to pay a premium for that so we compliment that by offering a objective organic third party independent analysis of the event that's why the top executives come in here the cube is a comfortable place it's a place where people feel happy and are happy to share their knowledge with the world and we're happy to be ambassadors of that knowledge transfer my entire career has been really built on relationships and talking to people and extracting knowledge from people largely in a belly to belly private form what the cube does is it explodes that to a huge audience I mean we've reached millions with the cube and it's real time it's live TV so you've got to be quick on your feet but you learn very fast and then you iterate from that learning so John and I play off of that we're constantly trying to up our game first time on the cube baby rock and roll the cube silicon angles cutting-edge internet TV show where we're covering all the latest and greatest in technology today we're in San Francisco at the first node summit an event dedicated to Node.js and I'm joined today by the guy who literally wrote the book on Node Tom Hughes Croucher the author of the forthcoming Up and Running with Node from O'Reilly and also here with John Furrier the co-founder or founder of Silicon Angle welcome to the cube well what do you think you're in the cube we're relaxing so you wrote the book I wrote the book don't write a book I don't recommend it it's good that it's done yeah yeah it's good for speaking gigs you know you get the book out there but seriously Node's been such a huge success just recently just rising really to the top of people's minds and hearts of developers what's the phenomenon about why why so fast I think it's been really interesting I mean I spent the last two years traveling the world talking about Node for both Yahoo and then for Joint who of course sponsored Node and just seeing the kind of the shift of the developer mindset Ruby's been really popular people have built a lot of great things with Rails but it's no longer acceptable to have a slow app everybody wants thousands of users everybody wants real time and you know that's the reason that people are shifting to Node because they need that high performance you know and they need to be able to present a company that can hey scale to 10,000 users 100,000 users a million users you know and if you look at the kind of the kind of startups that are really doing stuff with Node like Voxer you know they have millions of users making phone calls you know using the system and it's like that's been incredible so yeah I'm really amazed at the continued growth so let's talk about that mindset so this is something that people are trying to get their heads around outside of the community the mindset obviously with IO we were talking earlier with Matt about you know Voxer's getting that low latency number down down to the bone as fast as they can they're pushing the envelope on that but talk about the mindset what is that mindset about just thinking differently around coding is it around more architecture is it systems programming all the above multiple languages what is that mindset that's different from where it was I think primarily it's the architecture and I think it's this fundamental assumption a lot of the architectures that we have have been this legacy that's come from the batch computing days like literally punch cards where the entire architectures we've been using to build internet applications are based on these multi-user mainframes the CPU used to be sized between the different programs for each user and we no longer have that problem we now have this problem where we build applications that facilitate communication and it turns out that the networking piece is the hardest piece and it can't get any better because even when we hit fiber fiber is still constrained by the speed of light we can't go faster than the speed of light so at some point even if everybody has fiber in everybody's homes it's still going to take whatever it is 50 milliseconds to get from here to Hong Kong we can't make that faster and that constraint is this real constraint that everybody's been ignoring up till now and Node really has made it easy for people to deal with that constraint to take that thing and kind of create an architecture where anybody can code in a way which doesn't care about this network IO problem so it gives the developer more back end like capabilities with that constraint and as benefits it increases their range of capabilities Matt called a nice line in our last interview just now was he treats HTTP like a first class citizen talk about that role that's a protocol that's obviously standard talk about why that's now a first class citizen I mean again many languages have this kind of historic culture where they've picked up a bunch of stuff JavaScript didn't have any real access on the server until Node came along some people were using it for a few things but you went to the JavaScript conferences and it was a few people doing a few things with Node we now have this large body of people that have suddenly embraced a new way of doing this coding where Node has specifically been designed to serve websites it's been specifically designed to do internet applications so it's not just taking the JavaScript as a language it's saying hey we want JavaScript to do this thing really well and Node's sometimes criticized because it doesn't do some specific general purpose application that Java or something else does better we don't care the thing that we're really interested in is this large problem that lots of people use the internet and lots of people use the web and if we can do that one thing really really well then we're going to save people a lot of money and create a lot of good things in the world so it's diverse devices and connections you guys just standardize on that HTTP and the server capabilities and I think this is kind of you can see that in something like LinkedIn LinkedIn switched their mobile services to using Node and that had an extremely dramatic impact because the connections that mobile phones have that cell phones have is so poor so in that context switching that context has a much higher benefit than a different context such as server communication are we really talking about the mobile web here I mean all the key themes and use cases seem to be high leg on mobile I think mobile is a really huge use case there was some really interesting statistics I saw recently that talked about the sort of the shift between the amount of users that have internet through their cell phone device versus internet through their broadband device and that's shifting in the US it's definitely shifting in the emerging markets so I think there's increasingly that's going to become an important topic where most users have especially in the areas where people don't have internet so maybe less affluent backgrounds they still have mobile internet even if they don't have broadband wide internet at home and that brings up the whole mutually exclusive argument I'm on a mobile device but also I might have connections going on at the same time and the data needs to manage that so does that address well in node and we just talked about that they got to save all the messages someone's on the mobile phone they also want to move over to the browser what's the back end data flow look like so I mean no doesn't solve all problems of scale but again I mean this is a key part of internet applications is that a lot of what we do now is we shuffle data around so in general if you think of an application as a sort of the canonical web application if I typed in a search query for cats or something and then Google went out and searched every web page for cats in real time it would take a month for them to go through all of those web pages so instead they compute a search index and they can turn me a result in a matter of seconds all of that is about shuffling data back and forth it's not about the actual computation anymore for the user it's about how do we go and find the information that we already have how do we go and find the information that's specific and is the information that the user wants so it's stored somewhere and it's how do we root to that information so that's the real question that's the real problem that we're trying to solve for these current up to date internet apps talk about the impact let's stay on that mobile thread because I think that really is a huge and everyone now is shifting to mobile so it's not just about web on the browser anymore it's actually got to have that device access point connected obviously it's a really a two horse race with Apple and Android where are these guys weighing in on this and we saw a great demo from Brass Monkey about their gaming very cool app this browser doesn't work with Apple TV so there's issues Apple you know not known for their javascript support you know really well I mean they're always sticking around with standards and want to control it what does that mean I mean is it going to LinkedIn is it not a problem not a problem and Android a little bit more open less mature than Apple but open what we can see is that clearly the sort of the cloud services are playing an increasingly large role in mobile apps so for example Siri obviously an Apple product wouldn't be possible with that cloud Siri is simply you know it has some very limited on device capabilities but really in order to do any kind of significant functionality Siri relies entirely on cloud services so the idea of a cell phone that's connected to the cloud is becoming this increasingly important topic where I mean for example the LinkedIn app of course you know we know users know but it relies heavily on these APIs so the data on the device itself is extremely limited and it's then going to the cloud to do that so we need to do that in a really efficient scalable effective way to support all of the users for all of the different devices and that's where Node really comes in and I think I mean there's a company that I'm advising called Webmobi and the idea is to build a platform which is sort of a you know mashing up phone gap apps plus cloud APIs and this is the kind of space where we're looking to make it easy for people to take an API and take those kind of cloud services that people rely on and have that replicated into the device like how do you pair those things together and these are where applications are going where we rely on the big data the big compute the big services that we put into clouds like joint and Amazon and Rackspace and all of those places where the server farms are doing all the processing but then the representation to the user is happening on the device that they want and the actual functionality you can keep on the device is entirely dependent on this data that we're pulling in for these cloud services. So this is the mindset that you're talking about this notion that hey let's re-look at the architecture leverage the fact that we have more powerful devices at the edge I don't want to call them fat clients because they're really thin but they're powerful and the CPU is getting better and stronger and that works the bottleneck is that correct? Well I think this is the thing so if I this is my phone I have an iPhone this is actually the 4 not the 4S and the thing that's interesting about this is this device is like $800 $800 of computing power in a server farm is just unbelievably more powerful. The difference in power between my cell phone and $800 in a server farm is astronomical and this is when we have these really powerful communications channels why would we possibly constrain what we can do on the device based on the computing power on the device because pushing that small battery efficient computing power to the device is really expensive comparatively so what we want to do is we want to use and utilize all of this network infrastructure that we have and with 4G LTE and like all of these other things coming into play we're having more and more network capabilities and nodes really sitting there in the middle facilitating the communication between these high performance things on the device you know the fancy graphics and all of that but shuffling the data back and forth between that and the high performance cloud computing and using Hadoop and big data to compute using many computers in the cloud cheaply so that's the kind of the difference where it's like yes we want to do amazing things but we still need this thing in the middle to connect them. Yeah and that's cool and you can optimize that but the question back to Google and Apple are they standing in the way or is it not really a factor? I think it's less of a factor I think you know we'd love to see node or more platforms I mean obviously sort of HP put node into WebOS because they really saw a value there and whatever the success of that product I think it's inarguable from a technical standpoint that it didn't have a significant impact on that product it didn't add a lot to that product so I think what would be really interesting to see is whether there's going to be some more bets on node and certainly there are people that are putting node onto Android devices in various different forms. Well if the developer community continues to get the acceleration that it's getting I'm sure there's going to be not just pressure just social proof to these guys that it's going to work just to kind of change gears on that thread I got a message from one of our younger readers and watchers entrepreneur young guy coder he's asked the question should I learn Rails or should I learn node what should I do so you got a younger generation of kind of CS guys or coders or hackers and CS dudes who like hey I don't mind jumping in and learning four or five different languages a piece of cake but should I learn Ruby first or Rails first or should I learn node I would say that obviously at node summit we probably have a bias but one of the things that's really nice about node is that JavaScript is ubiquitous if you learn node then you're learning JavaScript and if you know JavaScript then you have this ability to work both with node on the server and have this kind of high performance environment that's getting all the press right now for good reasons but then you also have the ability to work with that same language and build these kind of web applications and I think that's a really compelling argument for some of the younger readers is you know if you're going to learn something learn something that's going to be reusable I think it's going to be interesting to see Ruby and Ruby on Rails how much that proliferates like if Rails continues to stay popular then maybe it will but is node actually going to be a really tangible threat to Ruby on Rails and Ruby is the indie language as this becomes more popular as node has made JavaScript a more viable server side language that may actually be a really tangible threat and to the point where there are more people on GitHub that follow what's happening on node than do Rails and that's pretty interesting considering the relative ages of the projects and you see similar things on Google searches and other things Hey we're here inside the cube I'm John Furrier the founder of SiliconANGLE.com we're here with Tom Hughes Crocker with Clint Finley managing editor of now DevOps Angle our new dedicated publication to DevOps which is node around cloud, new architectures having a fantastic conversation inside the cube our flagship telecast we've got to the events let's talk about what you're doing right now you wrote a book about node you're doing a lot of evangelizing and working within the community what are you up to now for your work I spent a long time at Yahoo building really large sort of big websites with lots of users and I was very lucky because I'm working at Joint with Ryan Dahl who created node but for me it was a chance to kind of go out and see what some of the other folks in the industry are doing so I'm currently running a company called Jetpacks for Dinosaurs and using my experience and my colleagues experience working on very high performance websites and specifically with node we've been working with some really exciting clients that are building some fantastic things with node solving some really big problems earlier in the week we've heard from the guys at Walmart and Walmart labs are really pushing the boundaries of what can you do with the resources of a large company to really innovate and to really take some of those things so I can't speak for Walmart but certainly the things that the labs team are doing are really exciting and I think the perspective that I'm seeing is that there are an awful lot of startups and existing kind of bigger companies like Walmart that are looking to really take something like node and push the boundaries they're really looking to sort of if I'm a startup how do I really kind of scale my users how do I build a product that scales fast and if I'm a big company how do I take some part of my application that I have and how do I make it faster and more efficient and spend less on resources let's talk about startups so there's a lot of young entrepreneurs here we're here at the Node Jam on day two of Node Summit so you know in the other room in there they're presenting their elevator pitches and whatnot to the crowd of VCs in the audience what's your advice for startup I mean a lot of these guys are we saw some students from Brown and Notre Dame and some other colleges here we got some young hackers some CS dudes what's your advice of startups playing with Node and around development and going to market I think Node is a really good place to be right now and I think actually a lot of the VCs that are actually kind of looking at it are looking for people that are doing Node because they're recognizing that people that are doing Node have a technology skill that's going to be very applicable in the future and I think I've even seen now already that people that have done startups that have used Node even if the startup hasn't been successful there's a person have become valuable because there's such a demand for skilled Node engineers now so I think there's a particularly for the younger audience there's a real opportunity there because Node is becoming the next big thing very rapidly and you know we've seen from just from the summit a number of large companies hiring Node engineers so there are really great opportunities based on this technology I think in terms of startups the thing that's really great about Node is it's allowing startups to kind of pitch out of their league effectively so typically you don't have to raise as much money because on a couple of servers from either join or Amazon or however you can host a startup that will scale to 10,000 people without trying too hard with some simple technology with Node and maybe Mongo or Redis so like a few things and you can really start to have that first 10,000 users that's going to help you raise money without necessarily having to go out there and spend your college trust fund or spend the money that you're earning so there's really a good opportunity now for startups to be really effective without having to necessarily get too much money and I think this is kind of this is a large part of what we're seeing with the increase in angel funding the increase of people that are getting very small seed rounds is because they are able to do a lot more without having to go and ask for a million dollars to buy a lot of server resources and also I would comment on that totally agree by the way we're totally in the same religion there and it's really great for entrepreneurs and it's great for society but one thing I'm noticing with Node is that the scale point for success is increased as you say pitching out of your league meaning when you get a prototype up and running you get something out there and then shit hits the fan and starts breaking and you don't have your VC money you can do more with this so you can actually do a little bit more back end head room if you will if you think about it properly would you agree with that? I would absolutely agree with that and I think this is kind of increasingly I think what you're seeing is that the products that people are taking to investors are much more developed they're much more sophisticated and I think in general tools like Node are giving people the ability to really push the boundaries of what's kind of considered a successful pitch Are you in the Bay Area? I am in the Bay Area I'm based in San Francisco. Well we have one minute left so we want to wrap up but I want to just say really enjoy the conversation I think we want to do more talk to you more with our DevOps angle as we get more into this just on a final word what's your feedback to the folks out there around what's the community like around Node? Obviously we're seeing great tight knit come a bunch of people and growing. What's the community like with Node? I would say the Node community has pulled some of the best people from a lot of other communities because they see this as an opportunity to really do things right and I'm really excited because I've never seen a community grow this fast and I've never seen one that's been quite so respectful so I feel like the Node community is really embracing if you're not sure what Node's about try the mailing lists, try the chat rooms and you'll find a place where people will openly welcome you and really help you get started. I think I would add respectful is a great word I would also add professional there's a lot of professional and range of it's not just one class of folk if you will so the Node community respectful, professional, great stuff Tom wrote the book thank you so much for being on the Cube, appreciate it alright we're going to take a quick break we'll be back in five minutes first time on the Cube baby rock and roll I think it's probably five or six times I've been on the Cube now at first the guys are just fun to work with welcome back hey I'm about to go on the Cube you never know what's going to happen I'm a three time veteran of being on the Cube I hope many many more Dave, John it's great to be here man I keep coming back because great insightful questions from John and from Dave what face melting action have you seen here at the event and I know there's a lot of it it's a great vehicle to communicate with a broad audience, a lot of folks watch great to have you back good job alright Craig Nunez, VP of marketing at HP thanks very much for coming on the Cube when people mention the Cube they're like oh my god I saw you on the Cube and they're all excited about it it's an experience it's not just information they experience kind of what's going on there it's like they were there legendary IBMer CEO of Symantec and now CEO of Virtual Instrument great to have you on the Cube so for Cube to be here at a conference like this it's got 15,000, 20,000 people and sharing that live around the world that's consistent with the way the world is evolving so it's a wonderful meeting John and Dave are amazing I don't know how they keep everything in their heads the way they do the notion of real time coverage and a real conversation is what's driving us as a company and I said very seriously when the questions and the comments that we hear from them and from all the different guests here directly turn into the products that we build yeah that was my first Cube and I really enjoyed it it was the rapid fire of questions it made me think on my feet but they were very thought provoking and really got me going on analyzing the greatness of Rista and the greatness of the Cube as well their approach works they're not just guys reading down the question list it's a conversation and they're going to challenge you they're not going to settle for the marketing hype and the BS and all that stuff that the industry throws around come on you got to hit them up on the HP question a lot's changing HP, some turmoil at the top obviously controversy they're going to hold you down to the real facts they're going to hold you down to the choices our users have and have you respond to it on the spot thinking real time and so that's real talk not just kind of a paper interview I'm John Furrier with SiliconANGLE.com and I'm here with Dave Vellante we are inside the Cube the Cube is our flagship telecast we go out to the events and extract all the signal from the noise and share that with you and great guest lineups we've got CEOs, CTOs absolutely stunned because I know it demands 100% attention for these guys to be up there talking to people about a wide variety of technology topics, I can't believe these guys can make it so many days in a row so I'm wondering how long they're going to go home and pass out for after this but it was incredible, they just do a fantastic job if you're not having a conversation then you're very scripted and if you're scripted then you might be getting the right words but you're often not getting the whole meaning and the whole depth of the conversation to the fullest extent I think this is a heck of a lot more authentic it comes straight from the heart and the brain sometimes you might forget to make some of your points if you're not a real time thinker but I think both from a participation and from a consuming point of view it's much more real Chris holds no punches so I've been on Cube a number of times and I think the interesting thing about being in that particular venue in that format is half doesn't pull punches well they don't either they ask really difficult uncomfortable questions sometimes and you can tell people and the positions and where they are in terms of what they're able or desire to speak of you can tell where they are on that borderline between honestly answering questions versus glossing over them and I enjoy being there because I don't want to say I'm outspoken but I honestly answer questions with the full intent of being able to be respectful to the people that I bring solutions to if I whitewash this crap you're going to turn me off every single time you see me on any venue let alone the Cube so I like being asked tough questions I like answering them honestly and that's a fantastic venue for doing it otherwise you get on panels and you get a bunch of talk and hands blabbing at each other and it's worthless this was my first time on the Cube and I really got a chance to get to know John and Dave and they're really amazing guys the knowledge that they come with the topics that they could talk about the people that they know and just bringing it all together in this live broadcasting forum it's just fantastic I just love it I feel like a groupie or something in this environment the social environment, the real-time environment where we're in people look through the marketing fluff very quickly and if it's not authentic they don't trust it anymore I think it's a growing trend yeah okay we're back here live in San Francisco California I'm John Furrier with siliconangle.com all the angle on tech we have siliconangle.com devopsangle.com servicesangle.com and we are covering the emerging tech scene and we're live in San Francisco the Node Summit conference it's the inaugural event where node.js is really growing like crazy this is day two the Node Jam and the Node Jam is where all the startups come out who are hacking with Node demonstrate their apps, get some funding impress the judges Naval Revacont from Angel List is emceeing the event and it's just a great day a lot of energy yesterday it was day one go to siliconangle.tv to see the highlights we did yesterday live here at the cube which is our flagship telecast we go to the events and extract the signal from the noise and share that with you Sam Bisby who's from Massachusetts and Rich Levin does an investor friend of mine so congratulations to get him to write a check he's a powerful connected cool investor so you guys are down there also with a table you guys are growing, you're profitable you got some fresh financing to expand tell us about what cloud is doing right now obviously you guys are an example of success story on the web great to see Massachusetts based company kind of kicking the tires in the marketplace and doing well but you got the profitability pretty fast lean team, now you're scaling growing so give us the update on cloud and how you see this whole world sure so we're basically hitting trying to hit the inflection point right now we are trying to be the data layer for web apps and when I say web apps I really mean any app that has data you know we have a we're built on solid open source technology no SQL, couch DB and we've been running, we forked it put dynamo clustering into it two years ago a couple of MIT PhD physics students and they went through Y Combinator and they've built a great service that we've been running at scale for two years so I just posted a story not to pivot too far off with cloud and things doing I just wrote a story that Amazon just cut out the middleman AWS storage gate wing so you find it a little weird that dynamo DB got a bunch of hype and AWS storage got a small press release no because it's first of all I want to say that we welcome dynamo DB into the market because now we actually have some competitor and we love competitors and we love to mix it up we just see as one big validation also the technical response to dynamo DB has been somewhat interesting you know it'll be interesting to see what the actual pricing comes out to the actual benchmarks that it comes out you know we didn't have much success running our initial public clusters on AWS because of random outages so that's why we moved off to and partnered with software as far as their kind of focus I'm really not surprised that dynamo DB got more coverage because the dynamo white paper that they published years ago was really the first big no SQL clustering paper that got a lot of traction and it's named after that so they like it. So talk about your team at cloud and right now what's the make up of the core team and then let's talk about the market opportunity you guys have. Sure so the core team we're about 12 employees right now it's traditionally been purely Erlang gurus really really bright technical people some of which are from the Apache Couch DB recently we announced Darkshuttle as our CEO and we've been bringing on a few more people to build out our field and sales staff and yeah. So let's talk about what it takes to compete in the market I'll see you here evangelizing out cloud and you've got a table down there great developer community here kind of a business crowd kind of a perfect storm it's not too much of a geek conference per se you've got JFConf which tickets will go on sale literally like today or tomorrow so it's kind of that crowd but you guys have to compete what is an obviously joint with huge financing is demonstrating this fully integrated cloud turnkey making it simpler what are you guys doing in that market between how are you competing and your offering how are we competing against joint just in general what's the market opportunity for you guys what's your differentiation what's your solution set and what's your value proposition that you pitched to customers I mean when we're talking about people which this conference primarily is we start to really talk about you know removing the DBA role and you know it's not that the DBA role is going to disappear from monster.com it's that we're trying to make it easier or doesn't like that do they no they don't but you know a lot of the people that we deal with running screaming and crying for Oracle or you know they just don't they can't afford a hundred thousand dollars and so you know we're trying to be that kind of agnostic data layer for any application where you know we can go in your data center you can talk to our private cloud you can come into our data center if you want to you know we've got everybody with from free accounts who don't care as much about latency to you know real-time bidding ad agencies where we've got you know we have to respond within milliseconds on the same land so it's we are you onboarding developers primarily our businesses are both what's your I mean because Joanne got that nice and Haruku made a killing by onboarding app developers and kind of prefabricating some of those resources I mean right now as far as if you want to talk about corporate strategy it's not like we're going out there and whining and dining CTOs you know the cash for that yeah you know we're really trying to focus maybe a few red sox tickets because they were in loves Fenway but absolutely no we are patriots which we will be winning the Super Bowl by the way there's we're really trying to go after developers now and you know high tech companies that are small that being said we weren't playing going after enterprise and yet enterprise has been knocking down our door it's why they get it they get it from a business prop and they get it from a technical prop is it the scalability of the security is the scalability but it's also the fact that we can get updated query data to their platform faster so to use the technical talk it's because we couch DB even the open source version has what's called incremental MapReduce and this allows us to get you updated indexes within seconds instead of rebuilding your index over three days so explain incremental MapReduce versus what people know about Hadoop and traditional MapReduce what's the difference between the two right so Hadoop, Mongo, any of these guys even if you go to the SQLs basically it could take you three hours or three days to build your index that could be you know primary key index that could be any kind of index you could be using the scene incremental MapReduce you have to do that initial large build of the index after that we are able to represent new updates to the primary data set into that index within seconds and so that's huge for analytics companies business intelligence really anybody who cares about data being fresh so what do you think about nodes let's talk about node summit node.js is a rapid arise in the energy multiple communities kind of coming together node community is dynamic respectful and very professional developers what's your take of this and opportunity for node well I think node is just going to keep growing it's one of those things where JavaScript is extremely accessible you know it's going to be interesting because PHP seemed to have gone through a very similar life cycle it was extremely accessible people started to standardize on it and so it's going to be interesting to see over the next let's say a year to see if the pool just gets really crowded PHP didn't do a good job of managing all the people who wanted to get on the bandwagon and I love PHP I still code in PHP but you know not many people can claim to be good at PHP there's a lot of bad people on it and so it's going to be interesting to see how the community kind of handles that okay we're here with Sam Bisbee from cloud and great growing company classic success story and it's kind of an East Coast success story although they have a Maverick investor in Rich Leventoff from Avalon Ventures also invested in Zynga and a lot of the big web companies so he knows he's working for many cycles so you got a really strong investor great validation self-finance well that's self-finance some seed, why combinator success story, congratulations on your success and good luck with everything great to come on theCUBE thank you very much okay we'll be right back with more interviews in a few minutes theCUBE is this conceptual box if you will and we bring people inside of theCUBE and then we share ideas don't stay inside theCUBE we explode that idea we allow that idea to grow and grow and it does so we really try to own the whole enterprise technology space and that's what we're all about we take analysis we take publishing we take news and we take live TV and we combine it together in a product and share that with our community no one's doing what we're doing what we're doing in my opinion is future of media, future of television future of the internet video is an amazing powerful product so we work in what John and I talk about as a data model people always say to us well how do you guys make money we sell knowledge we sell information we sell data so the problem that we are that we identified is about what we call big fast total data anybody can analyze a gigabyte of data if you do a thousand gigabytes that's a terabyte of data you take a thousand terabytes that's a terabyte of data a thousand petabytes that's a zeta byte of data so you are talking big data lots and lots of data and can you analyze it in real time as it comes in right the cube is like we call ESPN of tech because we want to cover technology like ESPN covers sports John has a great vision for what's going to happen next in tech and so John is sort of that alter ego of mine that lets me see the future that's Michael Sean right Mark Hopkins you know we've got him here today we've got a team of people on our news desk run by Kristen Nicole so she has a team that help feed us the news of the day what's happening the analysis we have a team of analysts may feed us information about what's happening and then really importantly we have a community a big community of many hundreds of contributors we love technology we love we love the innovation and that's what we do we want to create a great user experience and in order to do that properly we've got to really really prepare the cube for the past year that we've been in operation has been very very successful and companies do pay us to come here I think the companies that bring us in with the cube get two things they get a third party independent resource to provide knowledge to their audience who are seeking it this demand for the product and also compliments their existing media we're here at an event and the company has their own TV organization and they have to pay a premium for that so we complement that by offering a objective organic third party independent analysis of the event that's why the top executives come in here the cube is a comfortable place it's a place where people feel happy and are happy to share their knowledge with the world and we're happy to be ambassadors of that knowledge transfer my entire career has been really built on relationships and talking to people and extracting knowledge from people largely in a belly to belly private form what the cube does is it explodes that to a huge audience we've reached millions with the cube and it's real time it's a live TV so you've got to be quick on your feet but you learn very fast and then you iterate from that learning so John and I play off of that we're constantly trying to up our game we're back here live in San Francisco California for the Node Summit Node.js is the hottest thing in the developer community rapid rise in popularity application development we're here with the cube siliconangle.tv flagship telecast where we go out with an HD studio talk to the smartest people we can find entrepreneurs, venture capitalists executives we don't care if they have knowledge we want to share that with you I'm John Furrier the founder of siliconangle.com and welcome back pleased to announce the new vertical publication called DevOps Angle which is a new section of Silicon Angle dedicated to the developer community around Node around DevOps around OpsDev however we want to talk about it this is a phenomenon that is changing the guard in computing and computer science encoding this new mindset this new architecture and it's really exciting so Node Summit is really the first event that really changes the mindset around development where JavaScript and HTTP are the front stage of development and systems design to build scalable mobile apps and web apps so I'm excited we're excited at siliconangle.com to bring you the coverage and I want to introduce Charles Bieler who worked behind the scenes investing in a lot of companies, he's a partner at El Dorado Venture Capital very successful business over there he's invested in Compellant, Solta Dell and a variety of other companies Charles welcome to the back of the Cube Cube alumni, thank you I'll say you've been working behind the scenes financing a lot of the companies in Node it's an area that you have interest in you also know the enterprise space you know the storage space I think we're all over the I.O. concepts David Floyd just wrote a manifesto around I.O. infrastructure I.O. is used to be confined to storage and networking but now we have I.O. issues around changing an architectural fundamental change in how codes being written and Node represents that so share with us your inner dealings and content that you can share with us around Node and what your experience is yeah absolutely so we we actually started this conference and we started it because we're big believers in Node and really big believers in what Node represents in terms of the ability to start to deliver real-time communications real-time connectivity to millions of devices at a time so I started this with my co-conspirator Mark Lewis who I know you guys had some news about yesterday I thought did a great job with and Andy Janks on the guys who works with him and we were talking last April about Node and the conversation was what's interesting about it what should we do with it and the agreement was we passed this point of just a cool technology if you guys were playing with and there were enough businesses out there who actually deployed it we're starting to deploy it it was time to expose that in a different way so we started Node Summit along the way I spent time with the folks at Joint and subsequent to that ended up joining as an investor and I'm on the board you just saw the big $85 million announcement we came in to around just prior to that phenomenal company obviously they're the ones shepherding Node in the community I think have done where it's a community effort not a join effort it's the most important thing to them because their business is not about Node but Node is one of the things that they see as a key driver to where their business goes over time so so Node Summit obviously we'll talk about some validation points because as a VC you see a lot of deals and obviously there's some validation here we're going to get to that in a minute let's talk about Node Summit the event so we've covered Hadoop Worlds and we've covered Stratas we've covered VM or a lot of other shows and this one has a nice balance between developer developer developer developer but it's got validation in the business side mainly because it's moving so fast you don't have the tracks it wasn't designed that way so talk about why the conference was designed this way just to kind of clear the air because there's some people on Twitter saying hey no tracks on not enough technical side but it was by design to put it this way so explain to the folks the purpose behind the designs the first conference there's a ton of momentum and I don't know if you saw but yesterday I called Node Category 4 Hurricane mainly because there's so much business interest and there's stakeholder in this so talk about that so we tried to be really clear when we started the conference that we did not want to be a dev conference the Node Conference is a phenomenally good conference around Node Michael Rogers who's here he's on stage later and I think he's going to come speak with you guys who runs that JS conference we didn't want to do a dev conference what we really talked about when Mark and Andy and I sat down was let's do something that tries and it's the first conference but in some ways it's the first time anyone's ever tried to do this with an event which is let's bridge those communities let's get the dev guys here let's get the hardcore Node community here and let's bring in more of as they like to affectionately call us the suits and talk about not just what the technology is but what's interesting about it and why enterprises should be and in reality are adopting it and some of it we got right a few things will probably change next time around assuming there is one but I think there will be and it seems to have worked in that we're getting some of these core developer guys the guys who DevOps angle is going to be covering day and night coming in and saying you know I'm realizing my role here is I know Node and I need to be an ambassador to a much larger community of people who are just understanding what it is and it's just been fantastic to see the Node community embrace it I frankly think it says a lot about the community in Node specifically the way they work and at the end of the day and you've met with them it comes down to the guy who started it Ryan and his personality is one of the most down-to-earth casual people you ever talk to very laser focused on making Node something that works for everybody and I think the entire community around Node has followed suit yeah and we were talking earlier with Tom Hughes Crocker who wrote the book on Node that this community is a respectful community but professional so it's an interesting developer community because there's not a lot of mudslinging there's some arguments and some debates here and there but for the most part not a lot of group think some contentious good conversations but respectful and very professional and so it's kind of refreshing to see in this day and age of arrogance sometimes around and you know people having some integrity here so I just want to say congratulations on that thanks and on that you know and Tom's a great example but he's phenomenally got we've got him as a judge here spending time and I wish I could tell you what the magic secret was to some degree it's because the Node guys realize that the world isn't all about Node and there have been some of these communities who over time have lost sight of what their main purpose was and wanted to be sort of all things to all people I think you see with Node they talk a lot about other projects a lot of things that integrate in and work well with Node and are important for Node based apps to work and that's somewhat unique with some of the other communities as they've grown over time talk about the validation now so let's get back into some of your questions within the community you said you saw Node kind of arising on the scene companies are out there talking about some of the validation points you know you're an investor you know you're well educated you look at deals you can sniff out a good deal you got a good instincts what jumped out of the screen on you on this whole segment obviously it's growing you can see the social proof as Angelus talks about what's the validation points you said hey this is a winner well first I have to thank you for using investor and educated in the same sense I appreciate it had to weave that in there the so really it happened as I started to spend time with some of the people at join who already knew Brian Cantrell is a VP engineering and I have known each other for years we sat on a board of a magazine called ACMQ a lot of smart people sit on that board all of them smarter than me and a great opportunity for me to kind of hear what's going on hear what people are talking about and as we started talking about does this conference make sense we started to hear stories from guys who you know were here yesterday so Emerson was an old company that makes really boring technology you install in homes but when you step back and look at it and some guys came up to me afterwards and said so that company could have the largest deployment of node in the world on a device basis in six months they're they're literally rearchitecting their systems in node because they've seen the value of what node can do in terms of the efficiency and sensors and enlarge networks with lots of nodes and so those types of companies Erickson's and other ones here you see Yahoo you see eBay both announcing heavily based on node Rackspace who's got some folks here and running around just announced last week some things are doing around node so we're just seeing some of these big companies come in and start talking about it publicly and we're hearing about a lot of other companies and since they've never told me this directly I'll out some of them Netflix the first time I went and did a search in Google for node.js one ad came up and it was an ad from Netflix saying we're hiring node.js engineers this was 12 months ago Netflix has done a lot with node internally they don't I think want to talk about it publicly which is absolutely up to them. Bloomberg has done a lot with node they've talked about it somewhat publicly they would love to have been here and if we go to New York for the next event they said they'll be there some Twitter guys are here I don't think they've got anything out in deployment but I know they're spending a lot of time with this and frankly in last night or yesterday the Google guy didn't really it was a no comment comment I've heard from multiple guys over there that they look at node it's a number of situations to decide is this a use case for it so these large companies are adopting in a big way LinkedIn's been very public about it it's beyond just hey I'm hacking it and I'm a little startup in a garage which I'm sure we'll talk about more but it's these big companies validating that this stuff's ready to go there's a lot more work to do but we're comfortable putting it out and having our customers use it which is pretty compelling. What's your funding thesis as you look at startups out there obviously you're seeing a lot of startups here with the node jam day two here at node summit which is really all side of it kind of a demo day if you will jamming on node yesterday was the day one was the official kind of the conference what's your investment thesis around the kinds of dollars you deploy and I want you to talk about it in two categories one the kind of capital you outlay in a seed series A series B and then what you see as a duration of the financing total capital you might put in. So we're a relatively small firm we're huge huge believers in capital efficiency for companies especially at the early stages we also are enterprise focus so historically capital efficiency and enterprise startups didn't necessarily go hand in hand node is a perfect example of things that are changing that are making that possible you can get more done in less time you spend less money getting there so we're seeing companies where we can invest today half a million dollars so Badgerville is a good example of one of our companies half a million dollars four months after they launched that company they were generating revenue they generated more revenue in the first two quarters and they were raised in those two quarters and last year they had just a phenomenal year raised a big round that nor west led we came in so what we'd like to be able to see is really low capital needs on the front end and it's an ethos between the entrepreneur who believes in it the technology they're using that allow things like joint where you don't have to buy data center space somewhere you can turn up an instance when you want to you can turn it down when you're turning off when you're done it allows you to get capital efficiency through a much longer cycle of a startup we see more progress in a shorter for the startups there's less dilution and less money at risk and then as these enterprise startups start to get to where they need scale they have sales teams they need to build they do need to spend more money they need more capital so for us half a million on the front end could be eight ten million overall but the bulk of that money is going to come after these companies have been able to start scaling and at old rotto we've actually been doing a lot lately specific to the enterprise space to build programs to help extend that efficiency through the sales cycle work with channel sales strategy because we actually think it's possible to do things like compelling fifty six million dollars raised we think nowadays you can do compelling on potentially as as little as half of what it took them from when they started that's why you put all the big money in the eighty five million dollar round you got to spend it otherwise you're not going to be able to raise another fund the eighty five million dollar round was an interesting one well I'm obviously as an entrepreneur I'm usually capital efficient with silicon angle self-financed it and growing it internally with no outside capital and we don't need any more money cash flow positive and growing and it's exciting and I can tell you right now that technology will be an enabler to actually scale faster one of the exciting things that I see with node is this new architecture change around IO infrastructure and that now with cloud this opens up the mobile market for entrepreneurs to actually not only do more with less because that was the classic cloud store in the web but actually a person who builds an app doesn't have to be a total network guru engineer so that gives them so much more headroom and at the scale point for validation meaning the revenue point and market acceptance which as you know dictates venture investment right it's like you know the venture capital is the classic you know it's like the bank you don't get big money when you don't need it and you can't get money when you need it I don't want to go that hard but you know how it is right so the point is I can get validation say I can have you know a million users on you know hundred fifty thousand dollars in capital or half a million dollar around so I'm looking to see I'm looking through the bright lights right now about an entrepreneur I know starting a very interesting company called Swiss Stack I'm sure you won't mind if I out him but exactly they eat us these guys haven't raised any money they've closed and deployed a customer already they're still clearly in beta but you can get so much more done in less time and we're seeing it again it's across the board the consumer internet companies have done it for years and it's been a great trend we're seeing the enterprise guys start to figure out good ways to take advantage of it all the stuff you just outlined on the front end the key drivers that we see and for us again we're a small fund so being able to do these small deals being able to invest in companies that we only need half a million dollars for 18 months you know what fantastic it doesn't it doesn't exclude you from our perspective it actually makes you more attractive we're just starting a new vertical publication called Bootstrapped Entrepreneurs Only and it's going to be dedicated to all the people who sell finance who can't afford PR we'll do it for free we're big fans of the trend it is and it's efficiency right look at Angel List right classic example of efficiency in the capital market Paul's done such an incredibly fantastic job and we've he's here today which is great I'm seeing which we really appreciate but when you really look at what he's done and what his objectives in it were which are not monetary objectives it's all about building a community I've seen in 15 years in venture I've probably seen 40 different people coming to say we're going to be the marketplace for startups we're going to be the place to go none of them have ever worked these guys figured it out Jason said it earlier I go every day I checked that site Jason was saying it's the one thing he checks in the morning he unfriended his mom on Facebook but he checks the whole site they've just done a fantastic job it was why we wanted him here because they're like everything else they're all about capital efficiency they're all about really driving this change hey you want to come in grab a seat right co-organizer of the staying behind the scenes he's on a roll so I mean obviously you know we don't get some valuation numbers what was Joanne's last round of valuation it was no comment it was good but it was no comment Charles Bieler great investor young gun in Silicon Valley cornering the market Node Summit here by just having a great presence congratulations on putting this event together great vision I know you worked hard you guys are doing great with your fund and Node Summit is really an important trend so congratulations congrats on DevOps Angle it's the first big online publication to really see this is the next wave and jump into it as you know it's a very different type of conversation than what you see on a lot of the sites including some of the stuff you guys are driving now I think it's very timely and so we were thrilled to have you guys you know want to come here and be part of it and launch it here and I can't think of a better place to do it or a better guy to do it well we'll continue to talk to you Clint Finley we'll be heading up ops dev and dev ops whatever we're going to call it this guy should call it dev ops but it's kind of the industry term but we're going to cover it like a blanket especially dev ops now is a developer market so we do have services Angle which is the pure old school consulting big consulting business like Accenture HP and EMC and those guys run huge services businesses it's EDS and those guys huge huge business dev ops is really kind of the emerging model so very disruptive again I call this category for hurricane this marketplace run Node because it's it's it's ripping trees down and some building shingles are going off but it's not a category 5 yet no but it's a 4 and you know the trees are being knocked down and there's some disruption and the community if you talk to these guys they don't want it to be a category 5 today they're their biggest fear as we're having a conversation with one of the core committers to node they do not want node to be over hyped and it's hard to avoid it because it probably is they don't want it to be all about height they want it to be about reality and they would much rather take a slower paced growth effort here I think they love that this is going on but I think to some degree a little nervous does this expand it to a point where it's ahead of its skis and they're trying to be really careful about that which I applaud because it's a long-term approach you heard Brent and I can there earlier talking about JavaScript and some of the things they're doing now he said these things don't change quickly give it time here's what we're working on here's what we're doing and and we're seeing the same thing with node which in the long run will be good for everybody who's starting a company and trying to find a way to be more efficient as they develop things what do you think about that node summit was number three around globally around this so obviously there's an online community we all get what it means to have good IO and HTTP as a first-class citizen in terms of the design side of the systems and apps architecture well first I was blown away clearly it shows that one you guys have a ton of people watching it from here there are a lot of people following it just using a hashtag who aren't at the conference itself there are a few things interesting that happened yesterday that that got a lot of attention probably the biggest one was Scott Guthrie corporate VP of servers and tools of Microsoft phenomenally intelligent guy very technical comes on stage with a Mac opens up a Chrome browser and loads a node.js application up into Azure we sent out a tweet for mode summit on that it had within 20 minutes we had 45 people retweet it there's there's a lot of interesting things that are happening here that I think have surprised a lot of people in the dev community at Microsoft being one of them and I think that's helped a lot but really it just shows this is an interesting topic it's fun to talk about it cuts across many layers organically as a community it's growing very rapidly it's got some disruption elements in the business side and obviously the big whale vendors like Microsoft like HP and EMC and these big guys even like SAP will be impacted by this so I love it it's the San Francisco way but it's not just San Francisco it's global we've seen people from New York we saw some Israel we saw some UK we're gonna have a UK guy on here it's just booming so learn node check out node summit pound node summit and but I was gonna say it says a lot about you know you Mark Lewis right chief strategy officer of EMC at the time we decided this conference would be a good idea says a lot that someone in that role at a company like that would be looking at node this early I know Paul Martz big believer in node was trying to be here to speak Steve Herrod came from VMware instead and there's some people who are paying a lot of attention to it quietly observing it but it's not lost on these big guys and to their credit they're they're speaking about it publicly they're supporting it and I think it bodes well for the overall community as it continues to grow someone just stole my line on Twitter node.js is a gateway drug to MongoDB I wrote node.js is a gateway drug to Hadoop on Monday yeah we've got you stole my line one of the Mongo guys is going to 10 gen guys is going to be here we've talked about with next the future events really talking about some some of the things you plug in around node and Mongo is obviously one of them so this is it goes back to the community thing it's not just node it's everything around it and so far these guys have all I just hope that it just doesn't get mangled up by you know the big vendor whales trying to put the brakes on it you know how it always is with the big vendors they want to come and control it so you know we're we're hoping that it continues to be a commercial success at the same time the development side can pace with that so congratulations on all your work Charles Bieler with Eldorado Venture Capital one of many VCs here I saw Insik Ray from Rembrandt Ventures another great VC friend of SiliconANGLE so thank you so much for all your support and I appreciate it so be back in five minutes with more interviews the cube is this conceptual box if you will and we bring people inside of the cube and then we share ideas but those ideas don't stay inside the cube we explode that idea we allow that idea to grow and grow and it does so we really try to own the whole enterprise technology space and that's what we're all about we take analysis we take publishing we take news and we take live TV and we combine it together in a product and share that with our community no one's doing what we're doing what we're doing in my opinion is the future of media future of television, future of the internet video is an amazing, powerful product so we work in what John and I talk about as a data model people always say to us how do you guys make money we sell knowledge, we sell information we sell data so the problem that we identified is about what we call big, fast total data anybody can analyze a gigabyte of data if you do a thousand gigabytes that's a terabyte of data you take a thousand terabytes that's a petabyte of data a thousand petabytes that's a zeta byte of data so you are talking big data lots and lots of data and can you analyze it in real time as it comes in right the cube is like we call ESPN of tech because we want to cover technology like ESPN covers sports John has a great vision for what's going to happen next in tech and so John is sort of that alter ego of mine that lets me see the future Michael Sean Wright, Mark Hopkins we've got Kim here today we've got a team of people on our news desk run by Kristin Nicole she has a team that help feed us the news of the day, what's happening, the analysis we have a team of analysts they feed us information about what's happening and then really importantly we have a community a big community of many hundreds of contributors we love technology, we love the innovation and that's what we do we want to create a great user experience and in order to do that properly you've got to really really prepare the cube for the past year that we've been in operation has been very very successful companies do pay us to come here I think the companies who bring us in with the cube get two things they get a third party independent resource to provide knowledge to their audience who are seeking it, this demand for the product and also complements their existing media we're here at an event and the company has their own TV organization and they have to pay a premium for that so we compliment that by offering a objective, organic third party, independent analysis of the event that's why the top executives come in here the cube is a comfortable place it's a place where people feel happy and are happy to share their knowledge with the world and we're happy to be ambassadors of that knowledge transfer my entire career has been really built on relationships and talking to people and extracting knowledge from people largely in a belly to belly private form, what the cube does is it explodes that to a huge audience, I mean we've reached millions with the cube and it's real time, it's live TV so you've got to be quick on your feet but you learn very fast and then you iterate from that learning so John and I play off of that and we're constantly trying to up our game Hey we're back at live in San Francisco at Node Summit I'm John Furrier with SiliconANGLE.com and I'm John Furrier with Alex Williams our managing editor of our enterprise online publication and we're here talking about Node.js Node Summit, it's an inaugural conference around Node and the evolution of this phenomenon around I.O in San Francisco and changing kind of the developer landscape relative to cloud, mobile, a lot of success stories and our guest is Theo Schloss-Nagel from OmniIT runs the search conference, welcome back to the cube we had you on Strata, I think Dave I want to introduce you Strata is O'Reilly's big data conference which is coming up in February which will be there with the cube as well this year again and big data and Node kind of all play hand in hand but at the end of the day it's about infrastructure it's about infrastructure IT infrastructure as a service, service providers all across the board we were talking yesterday Theo around we've seen this before it's just old wine in a new bottle however you want to look at it it's about DevOps trend it's not really about DevOps, it's about ops and dev so first, what's your take on Node and why all the is it hyped up, is it real what's going on here from your perspective my take on Node I don't listen to that much hype so I'm not sure if it's over hyped or under hyped all I know is that we found it pretty valuable we're able to save a lot of money reduce time frames on projects we're able to prototype things and actually launch them into production in ways that we don't have to invest a lot in ongoing maintenance so it's real which I think is important and it's simplicity just makes it a lot more consumable it's great, our engineers not so much front end but a lot of our back end engineers that write C++ and C and Perl they're starting to write JavaScript just because it's easy you've been around the block you know infrastructure we call it guru in our world and you have a lot of experience in platforms and IT what's your take on this developer movement it seems to be a new crossover from the front end to back end and then it's got all the new capabilities what's new here, what's not new here or is it just whining a new bottle so I mean talk about DevOps and development my bread and butter is building back end infrastructure systems so I build system software from down in the the kernel level up to back end database technology and web server technology and there are not so many new problems there there are interesting problems there's a lot of history to them there's a lot of computer science around them and front end developers tend to not be so intimately aware of so now that we have front end developers flexing their proverbial muscles in back end code I think there's a lot of there's a lot of ignorance there and that's kind of dangerous those things can change just through education and awareness but we see people who don't understand the problems they're facing blindly solving them again and making all the same mistakes that were made 15-20 years ago is this due to issues with concurrency in Node largely due to concurrency in Node but there are also things like IO safety and system resiliency and robustness you're running your JavaScript code in a browser it's not that you don't care about them it's that the problems are different and it's an unfamiliar terrain so you need more computer science on the back end you need to take some courses in systems programming and database programming not programming a database but building a database there's more computer science aspects how are you seeing these problems surface right now systems that are deployed that give the illusion of correct operation that basically turn around and screw you in the end I mean they crash, they break they lose data there's just not the right acumen to the values that are so key in building back end systems and build stuff that breaks so we were talking yesterday about dev ops and you were saying when the dev gets more ops then we'll talk and dev saying no we're ops I thought that was pretty clever and I think that's interesting because it's hard to be a systems programmer you go to school for get a degree and operating systems or whatever there's not many of them so what are some of the things that you're seeing relative to those stumbling blocks if you will so I've talked about dev ops and a lot and one of my tag lines that I'm known for I think someone called me trollo shloss nangle the other day is that I say dev ops is bullshit and the reason I say that is actually so that people will pay attention not so much that the movement is BS it's that there are a whole bunch of developers who tend to evangelize themselves more than say that the blood and the mud systems administrator that's been managing these systems I mean the bastard operator from hell exists for a reason who has to do one thing make systems run all the time and they can never exceed expectations it's not like they can run more than all the time so it's a different culture so now the engineering groups are saying we have all these really good practices for managing projects and managing code and managing concepts and the evolution of our software let's take all those brilliant ideas and help these ops guys you're just hopeless and that attitude really endearing way and that's not the way it's usually phrased and the interesting part is a lot of ops people are very resistant to that because they see the other side of that coin it's like wow you know what I'm sure you know what you're doing but your software breaks all the time in my architecture so your best practices clearly don't build software that's operational so how about taking some of our operational mentality and putting it in your software engineering practices and the only reason I say devops is bullshit is so that I make people aware that the pendulum has swung a little too far to one side and it's both groups that can really benefit from each other we had someone on the cube yesterday quoted ops as TNT they blow things up and it's Orin from Haruku and TNT stands for the no team you go to ops and you say you know can we do something no don't take it to the no team but in a way the reality is that they are taken for granted and this has to run stuff and when it breaks shit happens you lose money apps fail customers aren't happy direct impact to the business so the interesting part is that there are things that will break there are things that are out of your control there are physical constraints there are systems constraints but then someone builds you a piece of software and gives it to you why does that get to break too the software is kind of a pure thing you don't actually have to have broken software why can't I ask questions about how it's broken why is that software not instrumented to make my job easier and those things are just missing a lot of times so what are you seeing to make what are you seeing out there that would cause this balance cause this to be more balanced do you see any any signs of this balance changing at all this conversation this conversation I talk at conferences a lot about about dev ops and it's not that I don't believe in the angle that's usually presented I'm presenting the other angle to make sure that it gets fair balance I think pulling software engineering practices into ops is a great thing systems automation all this stuff is awesome but you can't lose sight of the fact that there are software engineers that really don't understand what having an operational zero downtime no error mentality is really about we're proud to launch dev ops angle today we just launched it on siliconangle.com it's a section soon to be propagating from the URL devopsangle.com it's important a lot of people are talking about it because IT in a way operationally there's a lot of costs involved the old joke 70% is to run the business and 30% to actually do any innovation so people are trying to get the operational roles kind of trimmed down and efficient I think it's cultural we used to call it network and software guys network guy and software guy screw you it's got a cold war going on so I think culturally it has to come down from the top executives and does that as a CIO in your experience how do you go with these engagements with customers and what's it like do you walk in the CIO says okay Theo you guys just run the show or change these guys what happens take us through that process do you think it's top down it is it comes from both sides it really depends on the engagement our engagements vary so we do a lot of strategic services where we're doing consulting some of it's from the bottom up where you have people on the lower level director of operations and down that they can't meet their service level agreements and feel like they're put in a position where they can't succeed and their feedback to upper management I don't get to see their KPI's like how am I supposed to enable them if I don't know if I'm actually enabling them and they're not being listened to so we're pulled in to actually have that voice in a better way and then sometimes we're pulled in by CIO or CTO sometimes CEO to actually exert that sort of pressure and that sort of accountability across the organization is going down we're here inside with Theo Sloshnagle who's with Omni IT who runs the conference Surge what's next in this evolution in your mind try to shoot the arrow forward a little bit you know it's here today all those challenges that you mentioned are legit what's going to happen what do you see the forecast of perhaps in context to types of discussions you expect to unfold at Surge so Surge is a systems engineering conference so we're really talking about building enormous systems and doing it wrong and one of the things that I've learned over my career is that I can learn so much more from someone's failure than from their success so really what I want is I want companies to come in and talk about how they had this grand idea they did this research they did this implementation and they still have the scars it didn't work there were bad assumptions there were bad ideas and if you do that and you have some good storytelling you can walk away with that so the conversations are really about failure in a lot of ways and then learning from those mistakes and hopefully you can get enough out of that conversation to not make the same mistakes and the future for this community what do you see this meeting up to expectations I don't know what the expectations of the node community are the node community is incredibly young and the product is incredibly young but the potential that we've seen hands on with it definitely tells us that there's a long life to it so I think what we're going to see is we're going to see the node community growing up not as an insult that they're all immature there's a lot of growing up to do in this community and feeling like where do we belong in sort of a service platform delivery platform context do we power embedded devices do we power control planes on networking equipment do we power API endpoints on the web there's a lot of talk here about enabling mobile technology due to the architecture of node it really fits well with that we've seen that, we've used it for that and it's an exciting technology to be using in that space Joint would say everything's a node so why couldn't it encompass everything I'm more pragmatic than that Node is a way to tell a computer what to do all I want is a computer to do it and there are other technologies that work really well too so this young community there's a lot of young people who are who've learned JavaScript and PHP to some extent maybe that's a little excuse a little bit older is that becoming a reason why more companies are adopting Node.js because there are a lot of people who know JavaScript there are a lot of people who know PHP there are a couple of different reasons when you say PHP is older you make me feel ancient so PHP wasn't around when I started I was thinking like mid 20s to late 20s I'll try to remember what it feels like to be there elementary school to teenager yes so the adoption of Node.js and I think that the scalability aspects the fact that I can write a prototype for an application and actually have that scale to it's not going to be the most high performance code in the world it's not going to scale to infinity but I can get so much further than I used to be able to get in a scripting language like Python or Perl or PHP that's one thing the other which I hear talked about a lot that I only see a couple of companies actually embracing is the fact that I'm writing JavaScript code for the front end and for the back end and those things that are in common I don't have to write twice so I don't have cross implementation bugs that happen when you reimplement something in a separate language I actually haven't personally experienced that Utopia we don't tend to run the same code on the back end and the front end it tend to be somewhat separate because of the way our APIs run and almost every client we interface with those are the two reasons I hear though what have you seen here at Node Summit that caught you by surprise or surprised you in a way in good and bad around the content the people that I thought were running Node are not running it so much and there are a lot of people running it that I had no idea were running it so it's kind of a way there are a lot of people that don't talk about their uses of products and you have to catch them in the hallway track and engage them offline in a way where they'll open up about that so it learned a whole bunch of really interesting uses of Node.js that weren't in the public eye and still aren't infrastructure components rack space guys are running Node.js for deployment platforms the the Walgreens stuff was actually really interesting I thought the Walgreens guys talked about their use of Node on both sides of the the platform is they're doing really interesting