 Yeah, we'll call it July 19th, select board meeting no order. We've got Bradtown, John Quinn, Dave Sawyer here from the board with us and myself, Justin Lawrence flows nod on at this moment. Additions or changes to the agenda. We're going to add the agreement with the city of Montpelier for the, it looks like with the thunder chickens indemnification for the parking. This is, no, this is only for the bridge work or darling hill. Okay. The material for the bridge work on the property. Okay. Oh, okay. I'd also like to have this minutes for the 23 June. After I put the agenda out, so I just had to go sort of there in everybody's package. Okay. We have a draft posted online. Draft of the minutes. I could not post the drafts online. Okay. I've been posted to approve this. Okay. I could be wrong, but I think if I law, we have to have something posted in five days. Five days. So, well, not out of that. Start to, fill the answers online. Hopefully as it was transitioned to dot gov. Good to be a good kind of guy. I think I've got, okay. All right. Anything else? All right. Any public comment? Hearing none. We have Berry town EMS contract discussion with fire chief. I think we have Joe as well joining us. John and Keith. Joe and Keith. Good evening guys. Hi there. How are you doing today? Good yourself. Good, good. So I'm actually going to have Joe take the lead on this discussion instead of me, because he was a bit more involved with the working of the contract and the analyzing of the numbers. So I'll just immediately turn it right over. All right. Okay. So, can everybody hear me all right? Yeah. Thank you. So I guess the question is, is the contract from the very town and the Berlin fire department and the rental agreement. I think the rental agreement is, I'm going to say it's 1550 and it's what was considered a very fair price for commercial rates, rental rates in the town of Berlin. They, it's also also including the utilities. So they don't pay anything for utilities. And this contract was given to Berry Town early November, mid November, prior to Berry Town EMS submitting their contract for services for the town of Berlin. So I guess I'm not sure what we want to discuss. Okay. So they had this early November when what we actually had it on November 16th is when it was sent by email to Chris, Amanda, Amanda on the 16th, 16th, November 20th. What was the date of our proposal for that took place in February, February of this year, February, yes, February 3rd. Yep. Is anyone from Berry Town EMS on? I don't believe it. I mean, these, these, these work, these contracts and agreements work, they run on the same timeframe. So I would assume that if they had it early November, November, December, January, that that would have been a factor in their RFP. Is that what you, you folks were filming as well with the fire department? That's what I would assume. And, and even though, you know, it was early mid November when it was emailed to Chris, Amanda, this was also, we had conversations throughout the whole summer on this, you know, he knew that there was going to be an increase. I also, in the contract, in the previous contracts, it starts out one year at, you know, a price and then increases like 3% every year after that for the, for the duration of the contract. This contract is one increase will not increase for three years. The only increase that they would see is if I believe there is an option for renewal or extension with their services. Right. Okay. And so only at that time would there be an increase. And, and it would be one increase at that time for up to two years. Cause I think I'm not sure if you guys go every year for an extension or you opt to do a two year extension. I think it was a three year contract with two possible two year, one year extensions, if I'm not correct, like, right. Yeah. And just, just to kind of put this in perspective, is Berrytown EMS, they do not pay any utilities there. Our average utilities in the last four years for four years is over $34,000. That's an average for a year for utilities. And if we were to look at the impact of Berrytown EMS within that building, if I was looking at just 10% that would be a $289 monthly increase. And what they're looking at with the contract and the unsigned contract is $200. I mean, in the current contract with the town, it says if the rental fees increased by more than 3% from year to year, I'd be curious if they would try to say their rental fees included their own utilities if you guys were to. Well, their utilities are. They're included now, but if you charge them separately for a portion of the utilities in the lease agreement. Okay. So if you said, okay, well, we'll keep to the 3% increase, but because of your usage, we'd like you to pay 10 or 15% or whatever that would be of our utility bill, then it would be billed as utilities. And I wonder what they would consider with that because it's not utilities anymore. It's not a rental fee, it's actually utilities. And yeah, I mean, that's a whole, another write-up of a contract. Looking at that anyway, thank you. Well, my problem with this, and I'm looking at what Chris sent back to the town, his numbers here aren't correct anyways, occur in the physical year of 20 to 21 of 1344 is incorrect when it's actually 1350. And then there's nothing in the contract that he supplied to the town. To us saying what the actual rent was for the following, for that increase. He just gives some circumstances if it increases above because of rent, government regulation costs of operating, taxes and other increases. So there's nothing in this contract that to us that says what the rent was proposed to them at that time. Does he operate on the 1350 rent or the rent that the agreement that should have taken effect at the same time the contract? So he supplied this to us and those aren't correct. Have you received copies of that email? Did the fire department receive copies of this email? I did not send that email. We should share that information, Rob. I may invalidate it. So I think this is what you might have been saying, Dave, is if everything was equal and these two contracts were supposed to be starting on July 1st, if they were both signed, I don't necessarily see where the beginning of a contract you are gonna be held to what was the previous amount. So the increase starts on July 1st or I should say the amount starts on July 1st and there is no increase for three years. So I mean, that's how I see it. That's kind of basically what I'm trying to say is if he did his calculations on expenses to present this contract, and he looked at the contract in November, there is no increase over that three-year period right now. That actually makes a lot of sense if you're affected on that. I think Berrytown's got a pretty good deal out of it as it is and they should be lucky to be getting the deal that they are. I mean, from my perspective, and please tell me if I'm wrong, they're really the only ones in the building around the clock, seven days a week. That is correct. That's true. With $34,000 worth of utility bills. And I get you with the fire department, there's, I used to see the Norfield utility bills and they were nowhere near that. And while Berlin does get more calls, it doesn't make sense to me how it could possibly be that large. That aside, they're getting a sweet hard deal all the way around with only a $1,500 a month payment. Yeah, it works up to $1.3 a square foot. Yeah. 1,500 square feet. Yeah. Where do you get a commercial contract for anywhere near that? And are you assuming that it's a reasonable assumption that when they did the new RFP since they already had the proposed contract or the lease agreement in their hand if that would have been assumed and they started at the same time. So it's the agreement out of the board's opinion. That's how I would see it. Yeah. That's the town. In your electric bill, where is the largest cost? Like time of day or? No, I mean, do you have a pump that's running 24-7? I mean, there's got to be something sucking up some juice. Well, I guess I don't have an answer to what is actually generating that. That's three grand a month in utility. Yeah. Maybe town charge is a level. Does it? You know, garage doors going up and down, garage doors being left open during all seasons of the, you know, seasons of the year. So yeah, you know, in the middle of November, December if you take off with an ambulance and leave the door wide open for a couple of hours, that will generate some high electric bills and heating bills. That happens. So, Joe, your average utility bill per month around $2,600? That is also including, I did include plowing and rubbish removal. So. Okay. So that's utilities plus some, I guess. But not heat, or is heat included in that as well? Heat is included. It's heat, internet, sewer, water, phone, heating, plowing, rubbish removal. Well, you too. Okay. You got the big picture, right? Oh, you weren't thinking about fuel oil or consumption. No, I thought fuel oil was separate. And I didn't realize it was. I gotcha. That makes it a little more powerful. So is it, it sounds to me like the board feels as though the rent that you're charging is reasonable and the timeframe for the, the timeframe, like we would stand behind them with saying that we don't support paying any extra from a municipal standpoint to help cover that. And does that, about all we wanna choose to get into if we need to? Well, I would think, I'd take some issue if they're leaving the garage doors open in the winter. And they're driving the cost themselves, right? Well, I would share too with the board that I did meet with Joe there the other day and I was looking at the install of these air conditions that they put in. They've got air conditioned in the windows with cardboard. There's nothing stopping. I mean, there's just a poor installation where I believe Joe addressed in the new contract that they would install them to make them more efficient. Am I correct with that, Joe? You've been saying that? That is correct. So, I mean, they put them in there, they run them 24 seven and you have nothing but cardboard and that times when soap or rain soaked cardboard, just not necessarily keeping the cool end, it's not very energy efficient set up there. And they're older units. You're not even an upgraded unit that would be friendly to the public board. I don't have that contract in front of me, but it addresses air conditioners and additional electric items that's allowable under the contract. It is. What changed to this contract is I addressed the dates of which they could be installed and then when they would be removed. That and also that the install, I believe we should be handling and not very talented. Yep. Any other updates you wanna share with us about services that we're receiving over there since you guys probably see it a little closer than we do. You mean with Berrytown? Yep. No, I don't think I'm ready yet. No, I don't think so. Okay. All right, I was just asking. I think your next one is to get Chris Lamonda down. This question probably came about the contract members and if he'd taken a consideration in November next meeting. Yep. Let's invite Chris in. We'll invite Chris in for the next meeting. Hopefully he can attend and we'll have the same discussion with him and we'll lay out the same timelines and the reasons why we keep support where you guys are coming from on this. Okay. Thank you. Welcome. Thank you. Anything else? Okay. No. No. Okay, thank you. Next up, we have discussion of deferred compensation plan offer. Mr. Owen is with us tonight to take you through that. And there's some information that you guys can use to provide it. Hey, good evening to you guys. Hear me okay? Awesome. Thanks for letting me join you guys. Me do appreciate it. And so you guys basically you have the chance to offer a deferred compensation plan to all of your employees there at the town and it doesn't cost anything to you as being the employer. Now it's referred to as like a supplemental retirement account basically in addition to like the Beamer's pension retirement account and basically allows the employee to have a little bit more control over the retirement. What I mean by that is with the Beamer's pension is they really have no say over how much they contribute each pay period, how that money is invested. The only thing they can control with that Beamer's retirement is their years of service. With the deferred compensation plan, it's one where the employee can choose if they want to participate, if they want. They choose how much they contribute each pay period, whether it's a certain dollar amount per pay period or percentage of their pay. Something they can change at any time, start and stop at any time. So it's one is just to account that they have more flexibility and more control with. Also too, depending on how the employee utilized the account, it gives them more immediate benefits for the current tax year because doing pre-tax contributions to the account can help lower their taxful income. They can also inside the plan do some after-tax contributions, which are referred to as Roth, which can also make it so they have some tax-free income in retirement as well. Or they can do a combination, the pre-tax, the Roth, a combination of the two. So again, just kind of gives them that flexibility there. The deferred COMP account, it's a 457B. You guys have probably heard of a 401K. There's basically different numbers for different types of retirement accounts for different types of employers. The 401Ks are through private companies. There's 403Bs for schools, hospitals, non-profit organizations because the state's part of a government entity, it's a 457B. And there are a couple of things unique. I'd say about a 457B versus other retirement accounts. Usually with retirement accounts, there's that magical age of 59 and a half. Usually if you take money out of a retirement account, prior age 59 and a half, usually there's a 10% penalty on that amount. That doesn't apply to the contributions that go into a 457B account. So for instance, thinking of some state troopers, public safety officials, police, fire department. Sometimes people retiring in the early 50s, some of them mandatory age 55. The deferred compensation account being a 457B, it's a type of account that they can withdraw from regardless of age with no penalty. And also two, one other thing about kind of unique to a 457B is they have what they call a special three-year catch-up. So basically your last three years prior to your retirement year, you can contribute up to 39,000 in the account. So just a lot of room for capacity there. Now being a retirement account, it's still subject to the contribution limits. So for instance, a person can put up to 19,500 into the account for the year. And that can be pre-tax, Roth, or a combination of the two. They just can't go over that contribution limit. So on 50 or over, it actually goes up to 26,000. So a little bit more room for capacity there. But to that being said, with this type of account, it's not a very liquid account. So there's no like loan option on the account. People can't borrow against it. It's something where basically while they're an active employee, they can contribute to the account, can't really take any money out of the account. Once they stop working for the town, that's when they can be able to access the funds in there. And then really at that point, as long as there's a balance, the amount they take out in the frequency is really up to them. And then again, regardless of age, there's no penalty there. Looking at it too, there's no employer match. So it's just the employee's contribution. So again, with that being said too, there's no vesting period either. What I mean by that is because it's just the employee's contribution. Whatever amount is in the account at any time, there's no vesting period. So let's say they open up the account a couple months later, are no longer working for the town, go somewhere else. They can basically just take the deferred comp account and bring it with them to the new employer's retirement account and just kind of keep it going with them that way, somewhere like a 401K. Or again, other people have old 401Ks, other traditional IRAs, other retirement accounts through older employers. They could take those funds, consolidate those into the deferred comp plane as well because that's something they couldn't do with a VMware's account. But again, take those old retirement accounts, consolidate them here. And then again, something happens, they go somewhere else, just take this account and just kind of keep it going with them that way as well. With the account, there's a fee in regards to it that potential charges. And how the fees work, it's basically they charge a percentage of the assets in the account. And it's 0.035% of the assets in the account. So think about basically 35 cents for every $1,000. So it's very minimal. That's an annual amount and then, but potential just takes out on a quarterly basis. So basically that 35 cents split up over the four quarters there. Also to looking at, there's different investment options inside of the account. There's about 25 different mutual funds and ETS to choose from. So someone could go in and pick their own funds if they wanted. Prudential we have a free tool called GoalMaker just to help simplify the investment piece of it for us just because I would say nine out of 10 people don't know what should I have as far as a mixture of stocks and bonds. So I go rebalance now. That GoalMaker tool just helps simplify it. They basically pick how aggressive they want to be. There's three options, conservative, moderate, or aggressive. And the second piece it looks at is when they're looking to retire because the timeframe piece of the investing is pretty important, right? The longer we have, the more aggressive we could be to kind of make up for those dips and pullbacks where as we get closer to that retirement age we kind of want to preserve that nest egg we built up over the years, right? So based on those two pieces, the GoalMaker tool helps come up with that allocation as far as the mixture of stocks and bonds fun go. Rebalances on a quarterly basis just so people don't have to worry about what the markets are doing. Should I go rebalance now? It's automatically doing it on a quarterly basis form. And also too, it just gets more conservative form automatically as they get closer to retirement age as well. So really kind of way to just help put it on autopilot or you could always go in and switch it up from conservative moderate to aggressive at any time too and come into play as well. So with the plan basically kind of thinking me like a free financial advisor. So versus the advisor who's working for a commission something where I'm literally just contracted with a state I can't give any, I can't technically give you guys advice and tell you what to do, but at the same time here to help educate you guys kind of help you understand the benefits but also with the employees kind of help them take advantage of the different situations as well. But even two in the gowns are set up walking through the accounts online playing around with the different financial tools that we have, we have like a retirement income calculator to kind of see, make some projections like if I'll say, you know, $50 a pay period versus 100 what would that look like over five or 10 years? So again, I'm kind of here just to help handhold everything and help people out along the way. Something we're obviously pre COVID I used to come in and meet with people, you know face to face, so many years until September but usually do go around to the different towns and stuff again, meet with the different departments whether it's staff meetings or even on a one on one basis while I'm basically kind of here to help you guys out through the whole process as well. I'm reading to just little things helping them out with their account but understanding the difference between the deferred compensation plan versus the beamers have discussions on social security. Again, that's where I'm kind of here to help the guys out where I can. Okay. Seeing a lot of people would Diane, do you have any concerns about letting the employees? No, I can definitely set up another yeah, I can set up something as pre tax and after tax because we have a lot of that in paid data payroll. That's not a problem. Does that impact our payroll costs? So it would impact our payroll costs a little bit. Yes it would. Okay. Negatively. More features we have. Do we know what that expense would be? No, because I'd have to get more information in order to run it by paid and find out what it is. Okay. I think we should probably get a little bit more information. Investigate it and see what it'll be. It's not, it's a great idea and a great concept. But we definitely need to make a decision based on. And honestly, the way the pensions are going and pension conversations are on the state, like letting employees have another way to save and retire that where they can't pull it out is probably not a bad thing. They can also use it to buy out their last years before retirement if they want. But I do have a question of you. So let's say I take $50 a pay period out of my check and you're saying that there's just a 0.35% fee. Now, does that, I don't, you're not going to build that to the employee. Doesn't that just come out of investments? Exactly, it comes right out of the account. Yep, it comes out on a quarterly basis. You'll see it right in the transaction history. Yep, so there's nothing administratively there that you'll have to do. Prudential will just take that right out of the account. Okay. Perfect. So we'll just get some additional information as far as what would cost us from a administrative standpoint. Yep. And we'll bring it up again. Anything else you'd like to add, Mr. Allen? Oh, I mean, obviously there's some of their towns like City of Barrie, you know, utilize it. You know, pretty close to Rick Tafer, even Elaine Wang and Barrie Town, they're utilizing deferred comp plans. So if you kind of wanted their perspective as well, I mean, definitely reach out to them. But I'm, again, very successful to you guys as well too. Welcome to come back, give you more information. We'll update you. Can't wait to help you guys with this, let me know. Yeah, we'll update you when we discuss it again, probably, so you can attend if you want. But we'll find out more information, we'll put it on another agenda for some additional conversation so we can make an educated decision as a board. Okay. Fair enough. That sounds good. Next up, we have the vast land owner, submission form, signature approval. Oh, this is, looks like Thunder Chickens, Inc. Dave Rulo sent this up. I'm curious, since we do have the Northfield Club in there, if any motion that we make, I think it should probably include any, maybe either like a blanket statement of any vast organized local club. I was looking at it and because of the way they have it set up, it's fine because it is the overall vast organization that's asking for the permission, that's just the, Washington County snow, yeah, yeah. I think we should be okay. And Dave is there as the, kind of the lead point of contact for us to work through for the local club. So for some reason, Dave's not, or Thunder Chickens are involved that Northfield becomes more involved that it's not an issue. Okay. Yeah, and I had spoken to Dave. So as a board, we have a couple of decisions that we can make. The vast trail goes through my property. And one of the, so on here, they put a permission extends for a period stating December 16th, 2021 to April 15th, 2022. When I gave vast permission to use my property, I left it until rescinded. That way it eliminates the need to come back every year, get signatures, all that continued follow up. So that is an option as well. When I spoke to Dave and he said, it's as simple as him coming up and getting another form or signature or change in it or whatever, if depending on what the board chooses to do. Other than that, it's just a standard permission form that I've seen one of you sign last year actually. All right. Well, I guess I'll make a motion to have the board chair sign the vast landowner permission form until rescinded after a public hearing and a board vote. I think that should do it. And second that motion. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Motion carries. All right. Good Samaritan permit request change off the station. Good evening. Should I go ahead and speak? I'm Rick D'Angelo, so the good Samaritan Haven. Sure, right. Go ahead. All right. Well, good evening, select board, we're back again. I'm here with Nicola Anderson of Downstreet Housing and we're here very simply to inform you of a request that we've made to the DRP, explain why we're doing it and address any questions that you had. Tom Wodowski recommended that we do this and it made a lot of sense to me. We're not requesting that you take any action at all. So there should be a letter in your package. There's one small change from what I had in the letter that will become apparent with my remarks. And I'll just go ahead, it's only gonna take a few minutes to explain what's going on. So we're asking the DRP to modify the permit that we've already received to operate as a motel. And we want to operate instead as congregate living. As congregate living, we can manage the property as the way that we always wanted to, which is as emergency housing program or a shelter. And what this means, it has some real specific benefits. We can select the guests, we can establish rules, check rooms as frequently as we need to, make sure that there's no alcohol in the rooms, require participation and service plans. And finally, if it doesn't work out, we can require somebody to leave immediately. Otherwise, and this was something we just didn't appreciate previously, operating as a motel is far more limiting. We have to accept referrals from the Economic Services Division for motel vouchers. And in case you didn't know, that's the system that has been used at the hilltop and other area motels throughout the pandemic. And it's just a far more rigid system for us to work with. And so I apologize that we didn't know this from the get go. I guess we had a miscommunication with the state of Vermont about how they were looking at this. This model hasn't been used all that many times. So that's probably the reason why. So that's it in a nutshell. Glad to answer any questions that you might have. Thank you, Rick. Thank you, Rick. That's well, yeah, gotcha. Is the board having any questions? Yeah, Rick, I just had one, and I know I was in on this last time you're here, but just to clarify, you guys are, it's gonna be staffed and somebody there 24-7. Exactly, it's 24-7 around the clock plus. I mean, we're gonna have most of our staff there. We have 15 staff people and this is becoming our headquarters, basically. So I'm feeling pretty good about the level of attention and presence that we're gonna have there. Any other questions? Rick, this is Flo Smith. I was just curious, how many staff are you planning to have at the facility in a 24-hour period? Well, there's always one person there at a minimum. So in the morning, let's say three o'clock in the morning, there would be one person there and that person is awake also. Throughout the day, there'll be more. From eight to six, we would have two people just managing the facility, making sure that it's running smoothly. And then also during the day, we're gonna have our administrative staff myself and our housing case managers and so forth. So I would say during the day, I would imagine that we have at least six people there on our staff. Thank you. Rick, one other question. So it seems like we've had a couple of things come up as we're navigating through this process where maybe it was, you were unaware of it previously and you say it's a new system and a new model. As we look at how to best represent our town residents, is there anything that you could mourn us about? Maybe we should be a little nervous about or maybe a little surprised that we may not be aware of because that's a legitimate concern, I think in some ways, right? Well, you've got me there for sure. I think we've got a nail down this time and we're pretty clear about what we want to operate and we've been clear about that to ourselves and I hope we've expressed that to you. Some of the bureaucratic aspects of this, like there was a meeting that we asked, we thought we needed your sign off for funding. I'm sorry about that. The bureaucracy around this is pretty intense and but I'm feeling pretty confident that the program that we want to run, we know what that is. So it feels like we're trying to push really hard to get this to happen really quick and I'm just wondering if all the systems are in place to have it run properly for what you're trying to accomplish because obviously you're finding out additional information as you go and so I want to ensure that the town's not going to have to go all, well, I wish we had known that six months ago before they moved here. Well, you know, in a fully supportive way but things are going to pop up as we go and how are we going to navigate that? Because it seems so far as we've gone forward in this process to be fairly consistently changing or a request or lots of unknowns, I should say. Yeah, I'm sorry about that. We're trying to be an open book about this. We have moved quickly but we know how to run these kind of facilities. We've been doing it for 35 years and we've got the staff ready for this. The people, we have a staff that's been working in the motels and they are ready whenever this facility starts to move on over. So I... Right, so if you've been doing this for 35 years, do you have another model or another example that's just like this one, somewhere else in the state that we could look at? There are some motels that are being operated as shelters. But that's different than what you're asking for here, right? Or am I getting confused? Well, they're both motels, they're both homeless programs that run as motels and there is at least one or two that operate as a shelter, which is what we're proposing. Under the voucher program? Some run under the voucher program and like I say, they can only accept referrals from the Economic Services Department. The main example of that is Harbor Point, which is in Shelburne. So it's a different model than what you're using is what you're saying. So there really isn't a comparison or there is. I'm just, because it's just a little... Sorry, so I would say is that we, with changing this use, we are running the, well, Rick and good Sam Haven is able to run this Twin City Motel the way that we intended and wanted to. We accept that we don't have this 30 day minimum. Before we really weren't hoping to use the motel vouchers either, but, and we were just told different things from the, from AHS, but we are running it the way that we've always kind of explained and hoped that we would, but this funding, we've gotten more information from the funding basically because we weren't, it was different information that we were told previously, but we really do, we're not changing the operations of what's been told except for this 30 day minimum. It's, Rick's got everything in place. The funding is secured for the development of the project and really for, and for the the operating once this is developed. It's secured, but this just, in order for us to actually operate it, we can't operate it under the term of a motel. And initially we were told that. So that's where the confusion has really come from. So by changing this, the wordage that you've come to ask it for, what it does essentially, and correct me if I'm wrong, it allows you to have that zero tolerance of drugs or alcohol and stuff like that in that program and the space that's provided to them during the transitional days. It's not like their own private little spot. You guys can make sure there's no drugs in there or alcohol or anything of that nature. Is that correct? That's exactly what I was trying to express to you tonight. This allows us to check every room every day and to operate it as a program. And if you violate a rule of the program, you need to leave if it's a serious violation. Otherwise, people have a right to a motel room and it really limits our flexibility. And I apologize. This was always our intention. Sometimes the communications with the state, which is our funder, I wish they had been better. So there will be a zero tolerance, correct? Within your program as far as the any substances? Absolutely. And you're 100% positive that by making this change, you'll be able to operate exactly as you propose to the town? I'm 100% positive. This is what we presented to you initially and I'm sorry we didn't get it right, right from the get-go. Thank you, Rick. Okay. Any other questions from the board? Thank you for clarifying, Rick. Rick, the place in Shelburne that you were talking about, what's the name of the home or the facility? I can give you two examples. The one that runs as a motel is Harbor Place. That's in Shelburne. There's also an example that runs as a shelter and that's in Burlington and that's called a new place. So those are two different examples. So is it safe to assume that a new place most likely represents your model or is yours completely different from a new place? Like, I got that thing. They're very similar. The only, the problem with that is in comparison. They're fairly new. They're only about a year old. Okay, but they're similar. So, that was your initial question anyway, right? Yeah. Anybody else? Thank you. Thanks so much. We didn't need any action on that, he said. So, treasurer's request. Okay. Just to let you know, I did send the tax bills out last Thursday and people have been coming in and paying their bills and not too many questions so far. So thanks, so far, so good. I'm sure I will be having a lot of revised bills just because a lot of people do their taxes after April 15th and the homestead is not reflected because I send the bills out so early. That's it. All right, I got sidetracked. So Vince is making me aware of the fact that we actually need to make, if it takes some action, maybe I'm going to get some air on the back, back up. Isn't that for the development for view board? View board. Does it have to have all of this normal? They asked to bring it to the board to make sure. Well, we don't need to get consensus though, right? To change the hotel to a shelter. Congress, the congregate living offices and office, congregate living and offices for the application. I mean, it sounds like a positive step, meaning that the hotel voucher system, I think if we want to see how that's run, we can go down the street. Yeah, I think we already know. I think this just gives them more. This gives them, yeah. Okay, well, I mean, maybe we'll just make a motion that way it's done. So, anybody care to make a motion? I'd make a motion to do the change from the hotel to the, what do you call it, congregate living? Congresswoman. Thank you for the, Good Samaritan, David. Section. I would add to that that it's an approval of the DRB. Yes, I would make the motion to proceed from the hotel to the congregate living at the Twin City Hotel. As long as it's accepted through the DRB. Second. And this blows Smith and I second. Okay. Any additional discussion? Those in favor? Aye. Aye. Motion carries. There we go. Let's just do that indemnification agreement real quick. So, this is an indemnification agreement so they're staying, I guess, on a multi-layered plan. Stay being in the bridge work. They have to cross over to the other side. So, Hi, Rachel. I gave you permission to cross over to the back side of the signatures. I didn't want to sign it, you know, we had a discussion on it without you guys having an opportunity for review. That was lost. All right. It was drafted by Rob. I'm drafted. That's good information. That's probably what it's called. So, it's only for a month and a half? Yeah, it's just so that they, that basically we can go up there and then they can build the bridge for the Irish Health Trail. And it's looking for my signature or the chair's signature on the back. So, what we're looking for is a motion to approve the agreement and authorize me to sign. Make a motion of the approval of the agreement. All right. Second. Any discussion? All in favor? All right. Bye. Thank you. Earl and Mal, rental space, potential offer discussion. Mr. Rushmore, would I also like to answer any questions? Part of the reason this came up is, you know, the big town center. One of the expectations for the designation or one of the conditions for the designation of the town center from the downtown board is to have some type of form of the town offices in the new town center. So, the way I read it was that we strongly consider it. Right. They made it a condition. Yeah. On the new town center? On the designation. I personally do not think we should be taking retail space out of the mall to put a town office. That's just me. That's the fact. I mean, if you don't have the town presence there, it should be accessible from parking lot, not through the causeway. All right. When you said they made it a condition, who did? The town board. The new town center approval board. We will, I'm sure we will put a building there with our town offices and we'll save up enough money to do that. I was, I was thinking that it's calm and crazy but through the ages about to have a huge increase in their values on their property. And since currently I don't think we receive any pilot money, they might give us a good deal on a property to build. Yeah. There's no, is there, there's no time on that on the new town center, is there? As far as the town, putting an office. Not, there was, there wasn't a firm commitment. I don't believe I'd have to look at the conditions again. There was some mention of something within five years, I believe, but I'd have to look at the conditions and have to be clear. I'm not saying I'd be opposed to it. But I mean, this space here is being outdated. And, but I don't want to be crowded with you either. So one of, one of the things that just comes to mind when we're talking about this, and I understand not wanting to take retail space away, but we do have historical, like the historical society here and here. And so that wouldn't necessarily be a bad location for them to have some space. And I don't know as well. Yeah. I mean, would there, correct me if I'm wrong but they're looking at giving us an opportunity to have a couple thousand square feet for free. Yeah. For how long? Two years. Then it's not free. Notable at that price. I mean, at that time. Well then, and then, right. So you would then relocate if you wanted. So that the downfall is, you know, would it, I don't see how it would devalue the tax assessment of the property and then cost the town any revenue in that aspect. I got to, I guess I just got to ask why would they want to give us space for free in the building? Michael, would you like to speak to that? Yes. One of the things that I think you've seen happening over the last couple of years is that the mall space is going to be more multi-purpose in the coming years. It will not be exclusively retail. And that's something that's happening with malls all across the country as they're having to reinvent themselves. Part of what we've worked on with the town for five plus years now is the new town center designation. And I believe the requirement that there be some kind of a town facility within the new town center area is something that the state will be looking at at the two-year review mark and at the required four-year review mark. As been said, it's not an absolute commitment on the part of the town, but it's one of the things that the state will evaluate when they decide whether or not to continue the designation. In any event, we think that having a portion of the town office is specifically the historical society and public meeting space at the mall is completely consistent with our vision of what we're trying to transform the mall into. At the location we've proposed, the space would be accessible beyond normal mall operating hours because the main entrance is open 24-7 for the planet fitness space. And this is just a couple of doors down from that. In terms of the two years, et cetera, our understanding was that this was a potential interim solution for the town to give it some more breathing room at your current town offices when you evaluate long-term options. So whether one of those long-term options would be in the mall, whether it would be a freestanding building on a building pad health square in the Newtown Center site, that's something for, obviously, you folks to study and evaluate. So with this spot, is that there's degress through the back of the building as well, right? So you don't necessarily have to come through the mall to get into that space. And then how many, approximately, how much parking would be available for us out back? Or an location that was easily accessible? They're probably, I would think, at least a half dozen spaces that we'd be able to earmark for you. There are more spaces than that, but they aren't reserved spaces at the moment. So that's something we would need to look at in terms of what the exact use is right now. Obviously in the front, there's unlimited or enormous amounts of parking. The other thing to remember for this space is there is also, everybody's familiar with the three main entries, Walmart, where Pennies used to be, and then the center main entrance. There's one additional entrance that's right next to the Somsik Bank. It's just a single door entrance. And that's almost directly across from this space four that we're talking about. Okay. We definitely appreciate this offer. And I think the board may have some ideas of potential usage for it. What are you thinking after the two years? I mean, you guys, the mall developers must have some sort of a long-term plan. So what happens is if we relocate our awesome offices over there and we're utilizing that space, and then two years from now, we're maybe forced to stay there for whatever reason. Do you have, would the mall number one be willing to say, okay, well, we have a two and a five-year period is what you're saying that for review, right? With the town center designation. So would the mall be willing to look at a two-year contract where, when we appreciate this rent-free space? I mean, how could you not? But would you also be willing to put in a proposal like, well, we could renew the lease ad on an annual basis for the next two, three years following those two years? Yes, that's certainly something that we would be willing to entertain exactly for a longer period. One thing, the other thing, if you're looking at a building on a separate pad, we could discuss a purchase option on a plot of land on the property. Again, a purchase option that would be exercisable at your option. So again, not something that ties you down. Yeah. The main thing that I want to get across tonight in meeting with you is that the mall owners are very receptive to the notion and very supportive of the notion of the town having a long-term presence at the new town center. And this was really a way to get the discussion started. It's, we thought it was important to put at least a couple of specific ideas on the table, but our discussion shouldn't be limited by the few things that were on the list that we sent over. Yeah, I'd like to back up quickly and apologize for my, why in the heck would we want to do this and take space away from retailers? After hearing you wanting to evolve what the mall is, it does make a little bit more sense. But it seems to me, wouldn't we want to put someone in there that was forward-facing someone that we want to or that deals with the public on a regular basis to keep that foot traffic going to the mall and not be just like a kind of walk by and look, but, and this is no more than me just throwing out a name like the town clerk's office where people go in, you could register to vote, you could get your dog permit, you could look at the land records and actually have some real foot traffic there or do you guys have something really specific in mind as far as the historical society or public meeting space? We also had another thought too. Right, or police departments have evolved over the years into more of a community policing type of direction. Would it be a feasible space for our police department that is rather large in size and now growing in space as well? Yes, the list of possible users we put downwards as a result of a couple meetings we had with Vincent Tom, we're open to whatever it is. As you said, things that generate foot traffic, that obviously is something that is good for us. We thought with the historical society, it could be set up attention in a way where there would be exhibits that would be able to be seen through glass windows as people walked by even if the space wasn't open at that point to come into. As far as the police department goes, that's something we would be very open to. I'm not sure about their exact square footage requirements either today or what they would want for expansion space. They would, again, I think the rear access to this space, they're actually two separate doors. I think that would be very handy for them. So again, I see this as sort of opening up a discussion and I think you'll find us bending over backwards to be flexible to try to help you meet both interim and long-term needs. And to give you some options. As you mentioned, an option to extend the term of a lease or option to purchase a pad of property. Really appreciate you bringing that forward. How do you see the potential to proceed and make some decisions on your end moving forward so that the town can make decisions? D, for a timeline, what's the process? If you could explain that from your end for us, that would be helpful. Right, we specifically picked this space for some of the reasons that I mentioned in terms of accessibility, particularly the after 7 p.m. accessibility and being able to access the public restrooms, even if there was a public meeting in there after seven o'clock. But it was also a space that we felt comfortable we could take off the market, if you will. Well, we were having these discussions. Now that's not something we can do indefinitely. I think you understand that. But certainly for the next several months, if we're having meaningful discussions about what you might wanna do here, that's something I'm comfortable in saying. Okay, I don't really see a downside from a town perspective. I mean, we obviously would expect and anticipate us to cover our utilities over there. I'm assuming. Right, yeah, that's. So we're gonna have to pay that wherever we are. I mean, I'm much more comfortable with this than asking them for space, right? Like if this is what the mall owners want, I'm much more amenable to it than us asking for space in the mall and taking up retail space that could be used. The biggest thing for us, I think, is understanding what it would look like potentially in year three, year four and year five. Right, it would certainly put the grip on us to do something, right, whether it was to stay there or yeah, but we don't wanna know what it looked like. So we would have our options. And honestly, the purchase option for the town isn't necessarily a bad thing to consider as well. So if you- One thing to keep in mind, there's 3,500 square feet of space adjacent to this that would be available at some foreseeable point in the future if after you studied this and thought about how you wanted to use it. So there's both extension of the term, expansion of the space, you know, there are a number of different ways we can go and sort of put together a menu for you of options that you can decide whether or not exercise as time goes by. Well, I think that everybody here is very interested in exploring what our options are. And we look forward to hearing back from you on potentially proceeding with whatever meant, you know, going through the menu and looking at it and having further discussion as soon as possible, really. Okay, well, then I will plan to, is the appropriate thing then for me to get back in touch with Vince and start flushing this out a little bit more. Yeah, yes, please. Okay, very good. Do you have anything else that you wanted to add? No, I think that's it. I appreciate your willingness to consider this. Oh, well, we definitely appreciate your generosity in offering this. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Michael. Yep. All right, so next up we have approval of the minutes for the meeting of the 21st of June and July 5th, 2020. Vince added another set. I added 23 June. They weren't. They were opposed to the number. So I think it's where any of these? Oh, no, no, right. It was more of a procedural question than specific to those. We haven't been posting them until you were. So there's no, there's no negative to approving them. Okay. So I'll do June 23rd, 2021 as well. I'll move approval of the minutes of meetings from June 21st, June 23rd and July 5th, 2021. Second. Any discussion? All right, those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Motion carries. I lost it. What is? I was looking at. That's coming to bring that up at the round table. Okay. All right. Just came in. Oh, yeah. I know. I'll put a note on the next one. Approval of license, permits, vouchers and applications. All right. I move approval of payroll warrant 22-02 for payroll from July 4th, 2021 to July 17th, 2021, paid on July 21st, 2021, in the amount of $45,726.92. Payable warrant 22G01 with checks 21, 281, 2, 21, 316, in the amount of $80,000 and 50 cents. June. Second. Okay. Sorry. Good. Or do I need to do the rest? Yeah. Can you keep an eye on the rest? Hold on a minute. Stop while it's coming me off because she knew where I was. June, 2021, general journal entries. Reconciled June bank statements for the general fund, sewer commission and water division, June, 2021, trial balance report, budget status report and delinquent tax report. Second. All right. Any discussion? Those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Both in carries. Vince, do you have anything for the round table? I do. Thank you. First is a question. We had three bid openings on Friday. I mean, they all, all folks in the public, you want to go over those in here with the results working for those three. Real quick. Yeah. I think we just need to do it for any audience that we may have. So the sift liner on the route three on two beds, the low bidder, apparent low bidder was Green Mountain Pipeline at 16-4. The second bidder was Granite Liner at 25, third Eastern Pipeline at 29-9-30 and fourth was Bortex of 32-3-90. So again, Otter Creek is going to be going through and doing more detailed analysis before we confirm low bidders, which will be probably early next week. Okay. Cross down the water line repair bed. We had a low bidder from Dubois of 53-9-50. Second was Cortland Construction at 59-578. Third was A.J. Minosh at 64-444. Fourth was J.A. McDonald at 71-750 and fifth was Neil Daniels at 91,000 even. And the third one was our favorite, Fisher Road Colbert Replacement. The low bidder was Dubois Construction at 8-39-900. Second was J.A. McDonald at 8-93 even. Third was Hebert Excavating at 958 even. Fourth was A.J. Minosh at 981 even. And fifth was J. Hutchins at 1,105-400. So again, low bidder appears to be Dubois at this time at 8-39-900. Okay. Seems like they just don't want to move there. They don't hear that. They're saving the money. And what else do you have? I have from Capital Earth Movie, Mr. Petoniak a request to store 300 tons of hazardous material on a stockpile for approximately two weeks on a property across from the Capital City Granger Route 12 that he owns for an excavation that he's doing. So he's looking for the town if it's satisfactory and would like me to respond in writing on that. I love this tonnage that he wants to store. What is it? It is something from the state house that's been declared 300 tons of hazardous material. Just talking about it on land. I haven't talked to him specifically. Again, I just received a letter. I'm happy to go back. I didn't know what we're voting on. Yeah, what the material is. And for me, you know, even though it costs a little bit of money, I'm interested in what our lawyer has to say about what our liability is. You know, if it rains really hard on it, if it's not covered right, like... That's a high spot and ground water and everything else below that if you're interested because down at Scott's building, Merrill's building, they've got a drainage on there. That's up high. So what is the material and what's the potential? Also, I see that Merrill, Jason has been digging up there on that side hill. It's kind of sand. Yeah, it's good to see. So I think we'd like to know what the materials are and also what the process and procedure is for storage and along with that, right? I mean, what is the... What's in the management while it's there? Yeah, and the other question is, 300 ton coming out of the state house, I'm sorry, I'm just looking. Change of guard. I mean, it just seems odd that they have that kind of materials there at the state house. I mean, that volume. Sorry, I shouldn't have asked you this material. But I can start to find out. I don't know what it could be. Yeah, it could be bad coffee. Right, you never know. Anything else, Mets? I know. Any legislators there? I hope I put a copy of this one in your package. On the scoping study for the multi-use path for a hometown senator as well. So that's, there was only one bidder on it, have this high above the budget by about $8,500. The question is, we have like half money that can use to cover that cost. And that's the question. It should be a copy of this in your package with the contract. I didn't see it. Which one? Yeah. Yeah, I didn't see it. Did you know? Yeah, let's get out that. I will get it out to the board. I don't know. I might have had an email, but I didn't see it. Where is that path, though? That's around the town center. Okay. I mean, the town center area. You know, it's the scoping study. Sorry, I didn't get that. So it's, we propose to proposes Otter Creek, but you know, we propose to provide services as outlined in the accompanying technical proposal for engineering services on an hourly basis for $48,415 based on the fee calculation provided on the following. $48,000. So when we have Brandy Saxon and play sense to these, I think that's a good question. I'm curious. She's the one who would have put together the potential cost for this. No, that's directly on a creek. No, no, when we did the budget. So who did the budget for the anticipated cost of this? That's a good question. I'm curious. I mean, it must have been our consultant for the town center. Right. Well, it could be Otter Creek for as I know. Right. To bid for that. What's that? I mean, I'm curious. I mean, I think we had. No, people express interest and only received one bit. So my question would be with all of this at what time does the town start considering how much do we spend on their engineering fees last year? You gave me that. I mean, at some point. I mean, I think it would be an interesting to have a town engineer. It was over a hundred thousand because I know. I asked I in for those numbers for just that reason to start looking at costs. And it was over a hundred thousand dollars just, just with Otter Creek engineering. That we spent. On engineering. I wouldn't even that study there. That's something that town engineer would probably be able to do. Is there some other town around here that's looking for the, the, the same body we are. And they'd be willing to share an engineer. So she wrote the, they looked at the time amount that North young spends just on their waste water and road engineering. I mean, I may not be a full-time job for either town, but the two of them together would certainly absolutely. And I think it's honestly for, I mean, like, if you look at that potential bill there along with it, like the Fisher road culvert items like that, I mean, that's absolutely. It definitely would make a lot of, I mean, right. Right. In the, in the foreseeable future it's all going to be over at the town centers. I mean, most of the engineering will be done for all the culverts. Once we get Richardson road done. It's pretty well. So the next thing pops up. Right. Well, I mean. Yeah. I think you're right. The worst of it will be the, I think we should, we should look at, you know, part-time staff number maybe for that would save the town. Possibly. It would be worth looking into. And maybe talking to you about it since you're familiar with out of the budget. I don't know what waterberry has or. Any of the other ones. I like that. Yeah, you go. Of course. Every set for the priority. I have time for, right. I guess so. I don't know. Right. Anything else for our table. Well, actually, I just want to throw this out there for the board to start considering the possibilities of adapting some building codes and some. Efficiency Vermont standards in the futures as we have discussed mergers and stuff like that with other entities. That way when, if and when we merge or do anything with the fire department that we have some. Enforcement. Well, I think we could authorize them. So building code anyway, we had one adopted when I talked to Bob Warner this morning, you know, the fact that we don't have one. It really doesn't, you know, how do we, I think that one of the things is the apartments that the buildings that we have these, these folks are. We need to do something with it. And also as we get more and more apartments in there, there'll be more and more. Potential for code violations and inspections. We need to make sure residents are safe. And again, like Barry city, I believe they didn't, they just blank it. They almost adopt the state fire code. I believe so. I believe so. And the other part of it is though is not just looking at these buildings, multi-use buildings, because labor and industry fire prevention. Does the majority of the inspections, but with the way the state's going on legislation trying to license carpenters in this state. And move forward that's in front of them. I think it'd be a smart move to start thinking about moving in that direction. And adapting some of the efficiency Vermont standards for buildings to help. Move lowering the carbon footprint forward. New sustainable building. So would you like to invite somebody from our. Planning commission and talk about that or is that, I mean, that's where we. I would. And I would also like to invite and. Forget the presentation for. Thanks to the governor. And we gave all those I believe was his name. About, you know, the sustainability and. Moving forward to help lower the carbon footprint. Okay. Anything else. No. John. What is the timeline on the bridge replacement on Brookfield road for the STEM machine trail. That's actually going to start. It's supposed to start. Probably next week. The materials are. The beams are on site. The. The blocks are there. The black row bridge. Is the beams are in. It's been seated. The seals on. Everything's done. They have the four by four. So they're just going to put the decking on. The plan is, I did want to verify it. Like they are putting handrails on. Bridge on every shell, but they're not doing anything on the other bridge. So I don't know if we want to. Add to that. Ask for that. I don't think it needs it. It didn't have it before, but I just wanted to. Like, you know, I don't think that's going to get as much use, but I know people will start using it. More recreationally. Once. Where it travels at. The plan is I did want to verify like they are putting the decking on. But I don't think that's going to get as much use. More recreationally. Once. Where it travels at. It's a really nice bridge. I'd like to thank. I know Ted Clark. Came up there with his excavator and spent all like, pretty much all weekend without asking for anything from the town, how to deliver. Equipment as fuel. And I think that was really nice that he did that. Definitely. I noticed there was a third rock out. Right after the parking lot to make it even hard for the bikes to. You know, I mean, I mean, I'm not sure if you're going to question who put the rock there and why I think that are, I think that Tim went over and move the rocks. I think Tim went over and move the rocks and. When they brought the beams and all that in. And I think he just put it back. However they got put back. And I think we have a Berlin resident that's been very, very nice and letting people access their property to get up and do this work on the trail. Right. Thank you. All right, that was it. Well, do you have any. You have anything for round table flow. I don't, but thank you. All right. I don't have anything. I don't think. I'm sorry. The corridor agreement with that has been signed. So that is good to go. Yeah, I should have mentioned an extra. Thank you. No anticipation of executive session. Motion. Okay. Any discussion. Those in favor. Motion carries. Thanks. Thank you.