 Hello, everybody. Welcome to the real live podcast right here on SPM Buzz. Kami supo host Miski Finchi, and on set I am joined by Rich Galleous Jackson. Benyebe Grisha's hoist. Ya, the butita. Buti jan kama aja. Kula tuta kutua kwa, iset. Nata kwa mbo, naja niya mbo miin brood. Jumeba suji. I'm working on my tone. Naka pasta. It's not my wish that I have a strong commanding voice. So people misinterpreteat it for rudeness. Naka manas. Naka kwa soft boile ya elu kufiti niin. Uka reo bangi tuxi niin. So I'm trying to, that's the new me. You better get used to it. Fresha na zumbua. Butita miambua naka pasta and talking about pastas. Today's topic of discussion is where do we draw the line between religion and manipulation? Now this is where spirituality meets manipulation. And the question is, have you had an experience of religion enyuno na inayo ni religion lakini hi ni manipulation? Manipulation me, I feel like he's just in a kwangai if a perfect opportunity. Because for you to be manipulated ni kutap into what you're really going through. So now when I finished a primary parle marura primary, mi na sume marura, naja marura, kwa Nairobi. So marura primary, atuku kwa na ganji ya kwa nda high school. Eh, whether ni kwa miang, ni kwa, ni tuwa something hapo. Sasa ni kekwa ni merudi Nairobi, sinuna na unendaga ocha usyago KCP na toka. Una rudi Nairobi, unangoja wituwe. Wituwe tige. Wituwe sigida gore tiai ni ni. Sasa yo time kuna kru seidi li kwa paleka ni obangi. Eh, church flani li kwa gapata hao. Zile church waka fana kru seidi kwen yon. Mandi imuna bebo amuna pela kwa? Yo church. So mandi waka seima kama umeguzo na ukuna umbe yambalo una taka. Pengine we unezaku ata we ni kijana mbae hauna pesa kwen da, kwen de leza ma sumo. Famili ya kwe me jari bu. Mti ya ni mefanya vizuri ni peka 310 kanguka saa filabda. So manze ni kwa unum sei ame ame ame ame ambi wana moku ozi. Mimi mindi natsaka ni yandileza ma sumo, lakini waza zini kama wana hangi kana eza kosa kwinjiya, high school on, time mille report let. So waka seima wato na chikuduwe na kru seidi. Mini kijana mdogo. Nikiya ingiwa kwa matatu. Wal kwa na li piyana. Tukapa ele kwa church. On mandi. On mandi waka seima seima izo vitu. Kuna wato me maliza shule apa, kunatu mbawana tafta kazi, so ngeni apambele. I have seen in three weeks, you people are going to succeed. If you are a parent, you are going to get school fees for your kid. If you are a kid and you just finished school fees, you just finished school, unanda kupata ni ni. I can see there are people here. E ulem se li itaja. A li itaja takaribu wa se na mevashatia black, takaribu ni toke. So it happened. We went there and they were touching us here. Ile dunda, dunda. Aga guza mamaflani, aga dunda. Aga dunda tu, ngeni apili pu, tu. Me ni kaguzwa. Ni kawana, ni kawana piju eki pili ocha ni dunda. Dio. Jwa se ona anguka, so pia me ni kaguka. Anafoswa kenda kwa guka. Jwa se ona neza, se mawen wa shi tanu. E tena na nachoma. E na pasta neza ni fini eki tu. Neza na ujama na dunda sana. Kurudium, ika ni hit. Wotif kila mtu ali kwa nanguka jwa tuwa kwanza tatuli anguka. Wotif ni kipindi. Laki ni, ni kenda jule the next week. Ili kwa tui me pangwa iwa labda. Nili kwa nanda kubili wu pasta e nye re li kwa meni ona. Nanda ni elewa. Nifunga iwi kama ni menda yoka ni sa sanda eka kwanza. Naki ni witua ni se maweo sanda eka sa ziku fani eka. Ila kwa gani opportunity. E manipulation. Someone just got the right. Una penda eki. Una penda eki. Una penda eki. Una penda eki. Una penda eki. Una penda eki. Una penda eki. Una penda eki. Ebu ni ambi kama umse, awezi mwambi ala landa, ako se kula ala. Kama ma geti witu na en right eki. Ata ala ala. So for me I feel like the line between manipulation and religion naka manipilation only comes when it's a perfect moment. Msi ana spikitu ala fina apenu kukwa yo space. Ni raisi sano manipilati we. Because you feel like they know something concerning me directly. And they have been sent to speak to me. That's when it happens. Because when people are in problems they are desperate. Liz do you have a story of religion and manipulation? Actually it's the same one kama eke. Ok yung usi manipilation, but mufiki rei story adiwa leo. Kuna siku tukiwa fom 2 neli kwa ni medunda examfulani and I was in a very prestigious national school. So up on Sunday nashanga asa sa easy chemistry. Pasta kasema o if you've been going through a lot kama we pray your grades will be better. So simi ni kenda po mbele. So after kenda po mbele mi wu believe, ok, nili kwa na believe. Like pasta kiku guza iwi na kwa ni wongo. Like ni wongo, but nika sema leo asa ni jitestie. So tu kenda po tu kapanga lani so aka fika mahali tulikuwa aka guza ude mwenya likuwa kandoyangu aka anguka. Nika sema kipindi. Do you know pasta ta akuni guza ali aka mukono iwi nika sika kama nime pigwa nika ma nime tegua nika anguka alafu nika anza kupiganduru So wacha kujeka This is that true story. So now after that nika anza kupiganduru aka ni ombe aka ni wacha iyo siku akunam tu ali ni omgele shashule one week. So iyo, like nezataka ni metru yo pasta ni mulizia, what happened? Kozi ina wambiasi story aja ba like nili anguka chawkuli, nili sika tu nime pigwa Chawkuli pigwa ni swip. Siku pigo. Sange na piya tu bai viya tumzuri. Ali wajule. Siku pigo a swip nili anguka. Then I started becoming a very toxic religious person. Siku ana skiza secular songs. Like kumisa niwa gospel kama kina master piece waki imba vituze nina film ni secular nacha kwa skiza. Nambi wa sifa iku skiza. Kwanza willi poult liya bengwa kuna mapepo nika achakum skiza. Niki fika home ni onetrena ktn nina chezangu ma secular na change tv asma the devil is a liar ni ni awo so toxic. But now after nili maliza high school nika juliza. What is this now? Like I am so toxic mpa kana judge watu. Niki onatun denya iwi niki ono yo pants na onatun yo kana sema where you are sent from the devil. Like I was that toxic. Ikafika points nika wacha nika onalabda. I religion sometimes bina fiki renga ni stories aja ba if you ask me. There is a higher being yes but I nini pepo ino mga. But yo kitriya kwa anguka nini shanga zanga diwa leo. Wacha mo li tegwa. Nili skaka ma ni mepigwa swip na kuna mtu alini piga swip nili anguka chawkweli. Swip na oli pigwa. Kwa ni mepigwa. Aki muka kwa ukweli. I relate religion differently. We feel like. Apana tangu ni jijue. Nini anze kwa. Nini siyongi kwa mapasta jubuti tata na nika nadi textu mapepo. But I feel like. Nami mi story angu na religion ni I know what to take. I know the teachings to take from a pastor na what to. I know what to pick and what not to pick. I have a story. Nini kwa naio. I grew up in a very very religious foundation. Situ li kwa waliwa tuwadi mo nglorim kwa naio adi home na muna ezaita adi neighbors waka muomba. Naki lam tuwali kwa na skua kia kuprich. So there is this particular time these are certain pasta. I am short-sighted guys in case you didn't know I wear contact lenses and I wear glasses. So you see kwa katuomba. I am short-sighted. Aka sema today lazima muone. You have to see and your eyesight has to come back. You need to believe. Situ kwa sema sawa. We are ready to see. So he prayed. He prayed. He prayed. He prayed. He prayed. He prayed. He prayed. There is no option of you actually saying okay well ni li li kwa ni li kwa speak your testimony. Speak your testimony. So you have no option. So to me that felt yes they say you need faith to be healed. Maybe I did not have enough faith probably. But you said you are seeing. I mean come on Lazima mu sema at least naona. At that point ni li ona mimi yoka mi li kwa ni manipulation to be very honest. So li sema tu hei kwa tu sawa. So say you are very mewani. Adi usiku asubu na mkana mi onia because you know you really cannot see. So that to me I feel like it go to a point of manipulation. But upasta li kwa najili kana yu po nyadi cancer AIDS. Una sema na pambiana vita. So you tell me to be mewani ma li kwa lazima mu seme a bogini uzi sema hauri Na siu bi tili mi seme matsima uzi mimi ni senucku watu mu w布aka. It is true pedioro mu juia matu Na patk sila pa designs na turn kai nani quarters cowgnia. So kakamina tuli kornia. I imagine me memory Stasimani kaji sanani apu urupa kizomainzi tumatu o something Tulikuwa tunapewangwa vikombezha red tunambe oto eke mafuta then uneka mahali kwa kona ceiling juu Ndiyo pesa ita, ita kam So mimi baka nili kwa nga na hanka chif miwa nikuwa breakthrough 2007 zil kwa nga hanka chif za pink So yo hanka chif ni ni mafuta nana chota mafuta mamangu na ekele apu juu E ni kiyamkasu bui shika tv e Mimi apu nime shika tv ni ni ni Laking tv si wata tumeshika Lakin ni Uja shika tv? Uja shika tv? Tafadda ni shika tv eko Alafu na je tv e shagaza Miki tu ni kwa na nga liaga Nivi li anapredict Shoe li rekodiwa sande Lakin ni anasema Na kwa na apu nipoka Na shoe li rekodiwa last week Umeshiwa raka ni amchele Wewe na kwa na Atatana ona iripeet bada kwa ke ibezi tana ona irudia Na kwa na apu Una itu moces Uneta futa kazi Na kuna kazi li pele kajumata tuku apply There is high chances in this country Una moces There is moces Yes, ushwa But now what are we saying? Are we saying that we do not believe in this Men of God What are we saying? Not even me personally Religion is so personal No religion is not religion Okay religion is personal Your relationship with God Being a believer in understanding That God opens doors And the world is about energies And you have to be the right energy For things to happen That's the world But now the doctrines of different religions Is not an issue Because you know we are born into it You just You're born and you find out that in your family You people are Christians Or you are Muslims Then all of a sudden you think maybe religion Is the best, is the superior Unaza kubilivnaizu itu Ukiyanda kwa wa indiwa kuna religion ya Ukiyanda jiwish ziko different with different beliefs Like to a point even We have different religions with different types of gods Shaitaniduna na kwa ga moja Oja na kremewa So it's personal And there were some doctrines that were made by people In their own way of beliefs So as to be able to To worship and create a worshiping formula According to them Which maybe they Didn't even have wrong intention We were all saying mangati Kamakristianiti ikuja kutu kontrola paana Maybe it was just a doctrine ya Ilikuja niya je Two isomeni Even the word ita kwenafanya Depending namsia li believe in that Particular side So your relationship with God counts What opens my eyes Every day is I flash back na angaliya Na look back time ya covid 2020, 2021 Everything man made stopped In 2021 Clubs were closed In 2020 Clubs were closed Everything was closed Even churches were closed Mosques were closed Temples were closed So do you want to tell me That now people posed being Close to God For two years But did Were people still Were they being blessed Your time So for me I feel everything that was man made Stopped during covid Whatever that was going on Is now maybe between We were personal na dunia We were personal na God Church is li funga Akuna kwen na church But badwa sewa li na life All kwa na pray na wana blessiwa So ina manisha kumbe wneza kwa sa kwen na church Two years Na manisha kwa badwa ikue Ju na believe in God Na make prayers timing na fa So easy Let's worship zili come As a medium to bring us together To worship together Because maybe nikiwa solo Neza kusaku Kukwoneu relationship So that's my opinion Like We were personal na munguwa ko Ya nia I also feel like Religion and all these things I'm a Christian because I was born in Kenya If I was born in India It would have been otherwise So I don't See why it should be a big deal That Osji am a Muslim And you know Muslim is the right religion You're a Muslim just because you were born in Somalia It's never that deep Like your geographical location is the reason why You are like that Ndanya wewne mkamba Wewne mkrist Wewne mkrandis Wewne mkandis Wewne mkangadju Wewne mkrandis Wewne mkrandis She's Christian because she was born in Rwanda Like there is no big deal In geographical location We were not given the chance to choose Ya Ndanya Let's say we all serve a superior being So Munguwa kusati It doesn't matter whether you're Muslim, Christian What matters Is your personal relationship with God And humanity Ya Things that cannot be seen Things that matter Ya for sure Now for me growing up I grew up as a Christian And I knew my religion is the best And that is what I was fed You know just like you said That I was born in that family That was a Christian whatever based family But I agree you older I interacted with Muslims. I went to a school that actually had three-quarter of Muslims and just a quarter were Christians and the school was a Catholic institution. So we all had to go to church every single morning. But I started asking myself questions. I wanted to understand these other people's religion. For example, growing up, I knew Indians, the Hindu, they worship a cow, you know. And then I come to find out later it's a significant of something, you know. But I didn't get to know that as I was growing up and I've interacted with older people than me that know that Indians or Hindus pray to a cow, you know. So I believe that everyone has to look at what they believe in. You have to question your religion and the people that you call the men of God and the people that you call mum and dad. I spoke to a pastor in an interview and he said the problem is people do not read the word of God or rather the book, the holy book by themselves. Muna ngojanga kwa interpretiwa. Na according to that man of God or the pastor or the whatever atta interpret according to e vilana elewa. But the book is available for everyone to read and understand how you want to coexist with people. It is very simple. You live with people in harmony and like butita has said, energies. Kuna utituwa waili mambuza energies. Na si kupenda kwao. Mena zi elewa na tanguni elewa mambuwa umgimi kwa kwa. Ata mimi tanguni elewa that how I treat people is how I get treated. How I reciprocate or I give to the universe that is how I'm treated. It is very simple. Akuna mambuza regulations ngingina rules, you know. But anyway that is according to me. Siju wewa yumbani mali una tazama uno naji. Let us know. Where do you know that this is now exploitation and this is spirituality? Let us know down on the comments section and thank you so much for watching real life podcast right here on SPM Buzz. Until next time, it's goodbye from us. It's goodbye.