 Hey, good afternoon everybody time steward here with Liz Trotter. This is smart business moves Yeah, and we have a special guest today Debbie Sardone. Hey Debbie We know hello, thanks for having me Am I frozen you're okay now you just It froze We had a plan when we left here yesterday, and we had some fun activity lined up and We still have a fun activity lined up, but it's a serious discussion at the same time We had to call an audible because some you know things happen, right? and when situation changes you have to change with it and our industry is in a situation where there's a need and there's You know, it's important that that that we deal with things when it needs to be dealt with and most of you guys know that Debbie is the founder and still, you know, I guess very much involved with cleaning for a reason and Some things popped up here. I guess recently became evident that Cleaning for a reason is in the process of making some changes and has some needs and there's been some discussion within the industry of the last day or two about it and We believe that there's some opportunity for more discussion and some clarity and we asked Debbie if she'd like to join us and she Said heck yeah, and here we are. Hey Debbie. How are you? I'm good I'm always honored to be able to come on and clarify answer questions share the vision brainstorm solutions And clear up misconceptions. So I'm all about that Hey, y'all we got Linda Kim and Robin on here. I'm trying to adjust my count my camera here get a little bit So, oh, yeah icons, yeah We haven't had a guest on Smart business moves and what a month. Yeah, yeah, Robin. What KPI? So Debbie, we have been doing a series on KPIs for the last month and talking about It's time for some fun That's why we're So Robin's harassing that's great. No KPIs. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's it's the most important Thing we can talk about in business is our KPIs, but it's just not as fun as marketing and Branding and all that other stuff, but oh my gosh. It's it's everything if you don't know your numbers You don't know your business Debbie it was getting so bad that like I was like complaining the list. It's like God I just can't do it. I just can't keep going with us, but it was anyway I was gonna say I actually don't believe that Tom you could talk about KPIs till you die He was like I'm over it And we had a workshop earlier in the day yesterday before smart business moves And we started doing a deep dive in some KPIs and Liz was like Tom. No, please dear God, you can't Well, we have a few people coming on and saying hi hey guys thanks for saying hi Hello everybody Hello, hello, I see Dawn is in the house. Yep. Yep Excited So Debbie you want to just sort of tell us a little bit about what's been going on with some some people I see my buffaloes are all on here So cool. Hey Kim. Great to see you dear So I had a town hall meeting on Tuesday night Was that Tuesday night? Yes, that was Tuesday night to basically Alert our cleaning for reason friends and family so all of our cleaning for reason partners that We are in a struggle to survive and that's you know, I mean I Almost felt a little guilty being so I was trying to walk the fine line of not being negative and making sure that people understand It is not the end but it is serious and it's there and you know The pendic obviously doesn't help with fundraising a lot of businesses are struggling We were down considerably with our cleaning for reason partners and pledges and you know all of it, right? And I'm not the only person. I mean clean for reason is not the only organization And certainly not there's so many cleaning businesses that are struggling So it's it's always kind of hard to share especially me. I like to only share good news, right? I'm I'm kind of like the candy man I like to give out the candy and I like to leave people at my office to being the bad guy and you know It's like, let me hand out the words you do all the firing Right So it's it's so against my nature to even bring up a crisis but I did share in the town hall meeting that We thought by now since merging with ISSA. I believe ISSA thought by now that we would be self-sustaining and That they would only have to you know, prop us up and fund us for a short period of time And then boy with all that back-end support and help and the expertise That we would just be able to take off and pass our budget And we all have had very big dreams and visions for getting cleaning for reason to the next level and I think you know, the reality is It always looks easier than it is and outsiders have always thought that Cleaning for a reason could could raise millions, you know people have always told me oh my goodness this this organization could raise millions And I believe all of us in good faith believed that you know with the help of ISSA We could just serve hundreds of thousands of patients and we hired a very visionary leader from a From a consulting firm to help us reach Hundreds of thousands tens of thousands in the Metroplex and then go all over the United States And help tens of thousands in different major markets of families with cancer And so sometimes when you have a really big vision Right to do good You also don't think about how How difficult the day-to-day struggle is right and so I When we merged I had a big vision So did ISSA and so far that just hasn't happened and they have been funding us now for three years and our You can call it revenue just like a business, but our donations our contributions Have been going down The whole time not going up, right? Again, I Well, that's That's part of it, but I don't believe that's all of it I think, you know, I was thinking about I've had lots of conversations in the last few weeks about, you know, what could we do better? What could we have done better? What could I have done different? You know, I have all those conversations and these conversations came about because the ISSA board Informed us that they cannot keep funding a deficit And I understand that I mean, you know, it's kind of like You know, they're kind of like our parent company, right? Yeah, we do need to be self sustaining They are a trade association board that's been funding us ISSA charities doesn't have a lot of money ISSA Has a lot of money So we formed our charities board and I serve on that board and and I participate in approving all the expenses But I think we all thought that we would raise more funds over the last three years To basically grow to fit A budget that kind of is the size of the organization. We really should be by now instead. We kind of shrunk Right instead of growing we shrunk. Yeah, and um I was sharing with you Liz earlier that um, you know, I know a few people are kind of upset and they feel like well Gee, what did ISSA do to Debbie Sardone and and her organization? Yeah, and Here's the reality ISSA has been incredibly good to us And ISSA has basically been that You know that daddy warbucks father figure that adopted this little organization and really has kept us going um One of the things I've actually never shared in public before Is two years before we merged with ISSA? I began to tell my husband two years before the merge That I'm I'm at the point or I just don't think I can continue. I've been doing it for more than a decade um You know cleaning for reason is incredibly time consuming I had put my consulting business on hold. It was just you know, I was only had time to dabble in it And I was just beginning to be so burned out I didn't know how much you know, I picture picture the person hanging onto the edge of a cliff by their fingers Right, and that's where I felt for about two years And I couldn't tell anybody right because I had to be the visionary. I had to be excited I had to be enthused. I never even shared with my board I didn't even tell my board members That I don't know how much more I can do this It it was draining the life out of me in terms of how much time and volunteerism And expense that I had to contribute in and when I say expense, you know When they would fly me to do tv interviews and things, of course They would cover that but there's all kinds of expenses that you don't pass on right, of course. Yeah And I just Opportunity expense I had put my consulting business dreams on hold for almost, you know, almost a decade I mean, I was doing it on the side, but not to the level. I really wanted to and I was just So burned out Right. I wanted to be a volunteer. I didn't want the entire burden And if you kind of tipped your hand that that you're getting burned out that kind of takes the wind out of everybody else's Oh, it would have been disastrous. So I couldn't tell anybody My own board members that we spent Oh my gosh, so many hours together in committee meetings and monthly board meetings and in-person two-day meetings Used to be twice a year then it finally went to once a year and then Traveling to go and meet with big donors and My own board members had no idea that I felt like I was suffocating And I I I felt like it was a godsend when john barrett said issa one emerged with cleaning for reason I felt like Somebody had given me a gigantic dose of oxygen. Yeah I see that yeah And in hindsight, I'm not so sure cleaning for reason would still be here because I was Two years burned out not two months Right two years and I couldn't tell anybody and I really worried what's going to happen I'm I can't keep carrying the burden, you know, I had to be the director report for the executive director I it was just all these little things so When issa offered to merge with us It was a godsend and I still feel that way I don't think issa has not treated us well or fairly. I think issa Rescued cleaning for reason from something nobody knew was impending Yeah, because I couldn't do it anymore. We had an executive director That just wasn't able to raise funds She just didn't know how So that meant I was still participating in raising funds. It was just It was like it was a never-ending thing so I see issa as the reason cleaning for reason is still here today But they cannot fund us forever. They can't Well, it's kind of like now you've grown up and you're a teenager Time to start putting your own bills now Actually, I'm out of college Yeah, I'm still living in my parents basement. We can't live in the basement forever Time to go. Yeah, I'm out of college. I'm still living in my parents basement And we have to fund ourselves And I believe that is the right thing and I also believe we're so close That that we shouldn't give up We shouldn't say oh, well, okay Right. I think we're so close. I shared with liz earlier, you know, I think We need to be able to make or add or generate Around $400,000 a year more And in the big scheme of the nonprofit world, that's not a lot considering how much we do Right Well, here's the way I look at it My business takes a million point eight dollars a year in revenue To manage 50 employees And 600 customers regular repeat customers, right? It takes us 1.8 million dollars Right instead we have this organization that manages 1200 cleaning companies And we serve five six thousand patients a year And we do that in less than a million dollars. So I feel like our budget has always been crazy lean And it is So I don't feel like we're that far from being self-sustaining, but we can't just say Keep funding us and well, we hope the money comes in Here's something I've learned the hard way And I I think I've only just figured this out honestly in the last few months Fundraising, you know, everybody thinks fundraising is easy and I think issa thought it would be easy I really do because they're not fundraisers, right? They're like us They clean stuff Right. These are people who clean buildings and build, you know, and clean houses and manufacturer cleaning products And they're not fundraisers and I think we all thought it would be easy and here's what I've kind of figured out Fundraising is like anything else. It's like sales. It happens with relationships And we've spent a lot of money trying to outsource fundraising That issa foot the bill for that I'm grateful for that Because I don't have time to be a full-time fundraiser. I have other businesses to run And so they've invested a lot of their own money in helping us raise funds But I don't think we can raise funds to any degree Without relationships We can't outsource fundraising We've we've fired at least one fundraising company that cost us a lot of money and bring didn't bring in much It's I think it takes relationships you know debbie, you know I remember and this was a while ago the the years all blur, but you and I Rick crow and a couple of other people were hanging out in a narsie convention. I who knows where it was May have been vegas And the whole idea cleaning for a reason I remember we had a laptop and we were showing you how you could you know, we're going to get this domain name now you remember that and Kind of I think we're at a restaurant. We talked about asking smith bucklin to to do it, you know That was that was probably all the same convention Yeah, but I remember us sitting at a at a laptop at a one of the lounges You know after after hours and Actually showing you how to register cleaning for reason dot org and and to get that It was a neat idea and we all thought it was a neat idea But the idea is the easy part the execution is the tough part And I don't know anybody else that could have actually raised the funds and pulled this together and I'll admit something else to you. I mean in some regards all all of us are kind of competitors a little bit Liz and I you know do training and consulting and you do training and consulting and Every once in a while we kind of lament how you like smoke us in terms of numbers and stuff like that and Truly you do and and and you have a gift in that regard in terms of You know developing relationships And and in promoting an idea in a way to get large number of people will buy into it So I just want to give recognition to the to where recognition is due that The idea of well, gee, we'll just go ahead and we'll delegate this to To to somebody else and they can go ahead and raise all the funds at that point That says easy, but I think that it's there's no surprise to me to learn that well, gee that really didn't Wasn't as easy as we thought it would you you you have a special gift in what you've done here is Is not an easy lift and not many people could do it Thank you for saying that tom and obviously I didn't do it by myself I had a ton of people supporting me and encouraging me and donating every step of the way So, you know, you and I both know and none of this happens on the back of one person But what I think I did figure out really only in the last few months is People don't donate nor do they follow organizations or companies People donate people follow individuals And you have to have a relationship and I I I told the board I do bear some responsibility When I stepped aside three years ago, of course, I joined the issa charities board But I intentionally stepped aside So I wasn't that founder that wouldn't get out of the way, right? I never wanted to be that I never ever saw cleaning for reason as my organization. I always saw it as The greatest opportunity for the cleaning industry to really Make a difference In the world and and I I never saw it as mine And so I didn't want to be that founder That just steps that that won't step aside, right? So I really did Step aside and I participated on the board But I let them make decisions and I knew they were making decisions in our best interests because they were ponying up the money Yeah, and I the way I see it I I love issa because I feel like number one The reason cleaning for reason is still here is because of issa And I also appreciate the fact that they have said guys, we cannot fund this forever You have to be self-funding and it almost was like my wake-up call that said, okay Get off your butt And help more and it's not that I wasn't helping but I was letting them Do it all and at the end of the day um Here's an example As a result of the town hall meeting and my talking with people about how serious it is that I says they can't fund us forever We have a cleaning for reason partner who just recently became one of my clients A week ago A cleaning for reason partner That has great connections in her community and she was so inspired by the town hall She made a phone call that person is connected with somebody who Is in a position to give a lot of money and she's going to use her influence to try to help raise funds Well, that wouldn't have happened without this relationship being rekindled And then just yesterday Somebody I have a relationship with a pr firm a different pr firm that have a relationship with Contacted me and said xyz company a lot of you have heard of them. It's not a huge company But xyz cleaning products company wants to hire you to be a temporary spokesperson For just the spring season And they want to pay me a certain amount to be their spokesperson go on tv and for major markets and Promote the product and I said I would love to do that But what I'd love more is for their supportive cleaning for a reason if I donate my speaker my What do you call it my uh my speaker fee right for and uh for spokesperson spokesperson fee If I donate that to cleaning for a reason, would you see if they will contribute? And of course she loved the idea And I thought you know that opportunity wouldn't have happened if I didn't have an A relationship with this company that I used to work with when swiffer was our Sponsor for cleaning for a reason. Yeah, right. She only knew about me because of swiffer Very cool. And it's just it hit me We're not going to raise funds without relationship We can't outsource it. We can't outsource it. We can't even outsource it to issa. They don't totally Get all that we do, right? I mean, this isn't what they do. They they are a trade association We can't outsource it to professionals and experts And there has to be a face there has to be somebody that people can say Oh, that's the lady that started this. I'll give money I will support this cause and I think that's probably been the greatest weakness the last three years Is there's been that void Yeah, does that make sense? Yeah, we do have we do have a couple questions over here. Okay, we gotta get awesome Facebook user Yeah, I think what this question is it's just general one an understanding of How much money does it take to run cleaning for a reason and what you know How much what's the annual, you know expense side of of cleaning for a reason all part Um, I'm going to answer that with a couple of things First of all when cleaning for a reason was broke people were saying when we were asking for money when we just barely could pay our rent People were saying well, what do you do with the money and are you being efficient? It's a it's a fair question. People always ask that of nonprofits But when we were when our budget was a third of what it is today People were still saying Well, well, couldn't you be leaner? Couldn't you be more? Frugal always right a non-profit can never spend their money right ever And I will say this because I have served on the board the entire time Originally my board and now the is the state charities board We're all very sensitive to being frugal In our non-profit. We're very sensitive to being frugal um I wouldn't work for what we pay our staff who've been with us now over 10 years and most of Our members here as entrepreneurs. We would not Work for a company that pays what they make after 10 years Um, our salaries have always been below market value Thanks to issa. They brought the cleaning for reason staff salaries up to market value I'm grateful for that. I voted yes. I'm like, yes Right. I was sharing with liz earlier Cleaning for a reason was in a very dumpy Shopping center Well, it became dumpy over the years. It just became declined and my company which was two doors down moved out Cleaning for a reason was still there because you know, we were on a very tight budget I as to say move this out of that dumpy shopping center I mean literally Lynn our executive director at the time would open the office at 7 a.m She drove an hour and a half each way to work to run the organization Um, wow, sometimes she would open it. Yeah, she drove an hour and a half each way To run our organization And she would sometimes open our office at 7 a.m And there'd be a homeless person sleeping right in front of the door And she'd have to sit in her car and call law enforcement and get them to chase the homeless person off So she'd get into the office So issa upgraded our office. They definitely brought our employees up to market value and provided health insurance and You know retirement all those things our employees had worked without for years and so You know, we have a 990 It's public. We'll share it with anybody that wants it Um, I don't know that it's up on charity navigator right now I don't know if they've put that up there. We used to do that every year But I can tell you we're very frugal I can tell tom's checking I mean, I'll yeah, I'll look for that Let me you mentioned a number earlier Five to six thousand patients a year are served by cleaning for a reason is is that What you said 2019 2019 was the highest year And uh, you know, obviously it was a year of prosperity for cleaning companies So they were serving more patients because they weren't desperate And we served 5800 patients in one single year Okay, and each one of those patients gets how many cleanings Well, it depends but usually two two, okay And I guess 2020 I mean a lot of unprecedented things happened last year Oh, yes And if you know if I'm going through chemo, I probably don't want anybody in my home, right? Yeah We only served 3,500 patients last year But it and we That was the the high risk people i'm surprised that you guys even served 3,500 because We're exactly the people that everyone was saying Don't get around to anybody you have to exactly right exactly. It's a miracle. We were able to help that many Yeah And it's it is a testament to all the clean for reason partners and how dedicated they are that they didn't say I'm not going in somebody's house, right? It's a testament that they were like we are so committed that You know if I just say says we're essential We're then we're essential right and cancer patients need us to It it's incredible that we even got to serve that many people I do I do love this question on the end. Um, are there some efficiencies that are not being realized? I'm guessing that there have to be some I mean, there are in my business. I'm sure there are in every business. So of course, it makes sense Can we hold that just for a minute list because We're gonna we're gonna we're gonna get there but but I want to to maybe some context because Debbie said something earlier that struck me that You know, I didn't consider You know You guys had a vision of scaling this thing to be a lot more relevant than what it has been in the past And a lot of what you guys were doing in terms of organization and investment wasn't necessarily Just to take care of business status quo. You guys were looking to Grow significantly. Is that correct? Absolutely so if if I would Debbie, I'm just looking this up and uh 181 thousand cases of breast cancer on an annual basis and you helped 5800 in your biggest year and I should be able to do this in my head, but it's been a long day So you were helping 2% of The market is is that sound about right? It's insane The amount of of work our cleaning companies are doing for this nonprofit. It is insane And and like you said, I'm going to touch on two points Oh, go ahead. No, there's you know, you basically there's 85 percent of You know, breast cancer patients aren't using cleaning for a reason So it what you there's a there's a much larger market that that cleaning for a reason can service if it Could get the resources together and the funding and so on and so forth. So Yeah, that that that makes sense. There's an upside Yeah, yeah, and you know Here's the point I want to make I can't run my cleaning company With less than a million dollar budget, right And I serve fewer people And manage fewer people. I don't have 1200 cleaning companies Needing a press release and needing help with the logo and needing Help and assistance finding patients or matching patients or showing them how to use the website, you know I don't have 1200 cleaning company, you know, I have 12 I have 50 employees, right? and then I serve, you know, maybe a thousand people in a year with my 600 regulars or maybe my four four or five hundred one times in a year, but I don't serve five six thousand in a year and It takes a million point eight dollar budget Right, and I don't even pull that much out of my own cleaning company since I've been an absentee owner to pay My salary and so I want to put that in perspective How many of us Could run an organization this size with 1200 volunteers that we have to manage and in some cases we have to baby You know what that's like entrepreneurs need a lot of hand-holding and patients that need a lot of hand-holding And hospitals and patient navigators and sponsors that want that that think they they're the only sponsor you have And why aren't you paying more attention to me and donors and imagine trying to manage to manage all those people with Less than a million dollars and we've done it, but tom to your point When I had cleaning for a reason I felt like I was just barely hanging on I mean I was doing all I could do and I was maxed out at what I could do in terms of raising funds I just couldn't do anymore number one. I don't believe add the skills. It's just not What I do, right? I don't have the skills to raise funds. And so we were maintaining We were maintaining is this a come came in and said, you know what? We we hired a man who is such a visionary He really wanted to clean 10,000 Families right there in the Dallas, Fort Worth Metroplex and then duplicate that in 10 other markets. That was his vision And he asked ISSA to help with that. So we did we hired an outside fundraising firm and a marketing firm and It just didn't work And then of course the pandemic didn't help but it it didn't work. So ISSA was trying to invest In helping us grow I he wanted to serve a million patients and so do I I just don't know how Yeah So 280,000 candidates every year that could be serviced Yep Is the is the is the scope of in terms of Clients for cleaning for a reason. Is that breast cancer patients? Is is that still the the primary focus I presume No, it's never been breast cancer. It's all types of cancer. It used to be for women only Okay, and when the ISSA came in ISSA Uh charities decided as a board our charities decided let's open it up to women men and families So if you have a child with cancer like our own laura smith has if she didn't own a cleaning company She would qualify now because she has a child with cancer And so I always felt really good about that that that was a change that ISSA brought about that I I did did not have the bandwidth To do and I always felt like that was really a great idea to expand it But it probably wasn't going to happen if I was going to have to make it happen Yeah I uh do a little bit research and while we were sitting here and ISSA foundation I guess the most recent tax return is 2018 But this doesn't really this is just got everything jammed and it's a cleaning for a reason. It's part of this I guess Okay, so they do is that on charity navigator? Yeah, it looks like Well, this is directly from the irs, but it looked like at the Last time that cleaning for a reason filed would have been 17 Yes, that would make sense because cleaning for reason had its own filing prior to the merge After the merge it's ISSA charities, but I believe the legal name was still ISSA foundation But that is the legal entity. Okay, so in the merge took place in 17 Okay, so your your last full year of operation would have been 17 and had expenses of 608,000 Yes, and That operating loss of 180,000. Yep In partial year, I guess that was just a half a year and in 17 So what is the plan moving forward? What's the operating budget? How You know, I'm not good with the budgets, right? That's that's not my forte I should have pulled it up before we got on here so I could tell you but I think Cleaning for a reason without Trying to expand Just to maintain right pay our bills pay our salaries pay our rent You know pay our marketing stuff. I think just to maintain we do have to have about 650,000 a year but It was never provision under ISSA to just maintain so they did foot the bill For several hundred thousand more dollars to invest In us trying to grow by hiring outside consultants by by recruiting the gentleman that we hired who came from A I guess that he had a fundraising company that he worked for But we recruited him and you know, he had a pretty Big salary, but we didn't pay it ISSA did but we couldn't maintain that and it it didn't really produce a lot of of donation So we actually I feel like we have somebody that's a little more in line with what we could afford and we split the What do you call the Development director of development Sandy is our director of development. We are able to split the cost of her with the other two Projects that's hygia In ISSA foundation. So we're able to share her salary amongst the three organizations. So again That's kind of maintenance budget right about 650,000 a year. That's kind of maintenance budget I think we're probably about half of that Right now on our own And I think with help we can meet our budget I hope we do more than meet our budget. I hope we Find a way to exceed our budget and just keep raising funds and recruiting more maid services We have no outbound recruiting happening. We have no budget for recruiting maid services We cut the budget of travel We used to travel to all the franchises and recruit them all their conferences We cut the that budget a couple of years ago So So the total budget you're guessing is around 650 a year Some of that money, I guess is contributions coming from cleaning companies and some of it comes from large companies Donor Yeah, and Ernie's asking the question. I guess he's hitting on that that ISSA I guess there's you know large manufacturers Our manufacturing members of ISSA Yes So Here's what i'm kind of learning They don't know me Right, I've always been an arcsy member a lot of those big companies don't know me We have a few of them that I have formed great relationships with and they've been loyal supporters But a lot of those companies they don't know debbie sardone. They don't have a relationship with me And I really thought that they would come in and really build this big But I'm sure they have companies to run to and they split their Contributions between the three programs hygia ISSA foundation and cleaning for a reason but again It's about the relationships. They don't know me. They're more likely to give to one of the other programs It's just natural Why you brought up in the very beginning about how important relationships are Yeah, and you've got corporate relationships in the past. I mean, I remember like p and g being one of them But that's the consumer division. They're not members of ISSA. That might as well be a completely different company exactly Those relationships that I formed were formed outside of ISSA And so, you know ISSA say members are going to give to who they know it's we're all that way We can't expect them to be any different And our board has been incredibly generous the ISSA charities board Um, we all have to have to but want to but it's a requirement of the board to donate a minimum of $10,000 a year and all of them do that you know and They do it because they want this to succeed. We all want it to succeed but That doesn't go a long way What so what's gonna be different debbie? How are they? How are they moving forward and You know, what's gonna have to change because it obviously what's been happening isn't isn't working Are they hiring somebody or well? We have cut the budget um And we've hired a specific Development director, right? So she's not really responsible for running everything which is what Our last executive director was responsible for doing her sole job is fundraising But it doesn't work without relationship. So I am stepping back in to work with her on it because She can't Close the deal if there isn't a relationship and so we have our our program director or our Director of development. I never can get that name, right? I say it wrong every time I'm on the board But it's our director of development because to me development. It's fundraising, right? That's her job um uh I forgot what I was asking what you were asking me about that Oh, I was just asking how they're how they're moving forward what they're changing and so you were giving some examples Yes, so some some of the things that we've changed And again, this is just so we can streamline the budget some more But I don't think this is the solution But some of the things we've we've changed is we've Moved out of the office We went ahead and moved out of the office that issa very generously got for us And all of our employees are working from home. So we don't have monthly rent anymore And um, our employees are incredible. They they literally have places in their own garage With boxes of cleaning for reason brochures. I mean, they're really great people because they use them, right? They they Need them. They can't ship them to chicago and You know, we have our our director of development and we're trying to reinstate Uh, the relationships with our partners so that they will You know, a lot of partners because of the pandemic aren't paying their play This may be not a lot but some enough to impact the budget We've also asked every one of our partners to voluntarily raise their monthly pledge from 20 to 25 So on the town hall meeting, I provided them with a direct link just to make it easy to the click and pledge Which is the internal portal to cleaning for reasons Donation page and so we had a hundred percent of the people on the town hall Say i'm raising my pledges and we had a whole bunch of people on the town hall raise their pledges instantly by five dollars So we asked for that I also challenged everybody on the town hall meeting There wasn't as many as we were hoping but I challenged everyone on the town hall meeting To commit to raising $1,000 over the next 12 months Within their community you choose your business to raise a thousand dollars. How many people were on your meeting? we had about About a hundred wasn't a great participation, but about a hundred that's 20 of what you're looking for Well, I was hoping for 500 but I I tend to be a little unrealistic But we had a hundred and I will tell you the hundred people that were on that call were Heavily invested heavily committed And they found the call to be very uplifting and inspiring Um, I didn't get I don't think anybody on the call if if if somebody was on that call I don't think they felt like oh poor debbie. Something's happened to our organization I think the message I was trying to convey is this is our organization. We can't Not expect as I say to fund it indefinitely and and us not fund ourselves and and that is I think that's an accurate way to frame it. Yeah, that totally seems fair too So there's there's a couple of I guess a question and statement and all come in the same area you know Rochelle's pointing out that You know people working from home the a's and so forth. There are some efficiencies there and I guess this was the question that Liz was talking about that we never really got to that You know, there are efficiencies that aren't being realized and w you mentioned some of them You know, you've gotten rid of office space and so forth This is making a a claim of 120 dollars per cleaning I don't know about that. I'm using I'm using your numbers of like 5800 times two rounded up to say 12,000 Jobs a year for budget to 650 that comes out of smidge over 50 dollars per cleaning That sounds like a lot on the surface, but could you do twice that much? It's relatively the same amount of budget. I guess is is is really the question at what point at what point if you were You know able to touch ramp up in service instead of you know, 5800 if you're able to do 10,000 15 20,000 cancer patients Because god knows there's there's plenty more than that out there Do your expenses go up materially at that point? Is this probably yes I believe so because we do all of this with like five employees So if we doubled the capacity Uh, we'd have to bring on a couple more employees, you know, shelly's constantly working with patients But the cost the cost per job cleaning of the cost per per patient would we go down at that point? Yes, yes, uh, yeah, I'm sure if we had more capacity Then you would see that but if we did double the people we serve that would mean we would have to add another 500 cleaning companies, right? It's not going to happen with the cleaning companies. We have their stretch then And what's the vision with issa when you guys did this did you guys have a number in terms of we want to grow this to Currently we're doing between five to six thousand Patients a year. We want to grow this to where we're serving This larger number. Did you guys ever like? Yes, in fact, maybe lucy will text me because she always remembers these numbers It's been really three years since we had this So that's we hold on Mike I Know he wanted to serve more than a hundred thousand patients and Yes, and we only we felt like the only way that was possible Is to dominate the major markets and get Hundreds more cleaning companies on board, right? Which means we need more donors because how do you find more cleaning companies? You have to market to them. You have to go recruit them You have to sign them up You have to vet them and you know, so we're always having to upgrade or update our software But I I think he wanted he he wanted us to reach a hundred thousand patients And we'll see if if lucy remembers what that number was but When he first took over when we first merged That was really our vision was we need to serve more patients When I was running it it's like we need to be able to pay our bills Right So I felt like we had this three-year leeway to try to invest more in the growth aspect Why we haven't grown it's kind of hard to say Why I mean, it's it's hard to get cleaning companies. It's hard to find I know arcsy has struggled to get more members and I don't know Oh Well, especially last year. I mean people were just struggling to maintain, you know a hold on So last year is kind of a Can't really use it's crazy. Yeah. Yeah um, the two years before that probably um There's a question, but I mean It's fundraising. It's not easy and like you said There there wasn't somebody there that was you know, maybe a an excellent or professional fundraiser There even is such a thing which i'm sure there is Oh, they all tell you they are and they all charge a lot and i'm telling you i've yet to find a group that can produce um lucy just texted me because she's watching and she said yes mike's vision and our vision as a board because mike's vision is to Execute what the board agrees right and what the board has a vision for his vision was to serve a hundred thousand patients And for cleaning for reason to be a household name Because if cleaning for reason was a household name then so would the cleaning companies that serve the patients so We set out on a journey to see if we could make that happen right we didn't set out on a journey to figure out While gee how could we make the budget smaller? We set out on a journey to see how can we serve more families in a bigger way and issa was generous enough To fund that but but we can't keep doing it and I honestly i'm not sure how To move from 1200 cleaning companies to 2000 I thought I knew how and I was hoping issa would know how but so far none of us have figured out the secret formula for that So with 1200 cleaning companies what your capacity is at about is 5800 jobs about all you can or to urge Or patients about all you can really do with with with that many companies I don't know tom because you know all of us feel like we're doing as much as we can right It's like in our own cleaning companies We feel like we're getting as much revenue out of this many staff we all feel that way But usually when the container gets bigger you kind of feel it Right i'm sure so very true right so we think That with a little under 1200 Well, no right around 1200 58 patients 5800 patients We think that's probably pretty close to capacity But I will tell you back when I was involved in the numbers and i'm not involved in the day-to-day operations at all And there's that's on purpose When I was involved in the numbers at any given time 30 of our partners weren't cleaning And it was very discouraging to me people that wouldn't answer their email here. They're getting all the marketing benefits They've got the logo. They're getting on tv yet. They you know, well, I'm shorthand. I can't take a patient right And it wasn't because the need wasn't there they just didn't They just you know, you know how it is right? There's 30 percent of the people out there that are engaged and crushing it and fulfilling their promises 30 percent of the people out There are trying and 30 percent of the people are like, well, they what are you going to do to me, right? I didn't know that this is the first I ever thought of that. I really thought oh my gosh I did that everybody that was signed up with cleaning for a reason Was just waiting for the emails to come in and ready to go out there I mean, of course, I think makes perfect sense or at minimum like the 80 20 rule, right? It's typical. Yeah And I I could be off on that percentage But I do know it was always very discouraging But I was always very careful not to publicly say that because I felt I can't shame the people That are helping us and are serving. I can't do that, right? It's like You should do more. No, I always just say I need to do more, you know, and some of the people that hear on the town hall they're it's like We all have an emotional home Right, you hear something Liz your your emotional home causes you to say, oh, what can I do to help? Other people's emotional home is oh who didn't do something right, right? The emotional home either caused you to point fingers or to say, you know what? I haven't been doing much I haven't been stepping it up And so I never wanted to be that person that's kind of fussing at our partners because they're not doing enough My gosh, they're volunteering and they're paying 20 bucks a month I just couldn't be that person You know what I'm saying? But it's always been a problem that there's always been a significant percentage to the point where it's Discouraging, you know our board members we used to have heated discussions about they need to be thrown out take the logo off their website you know and it's like Some of them are just struggling some of them They don't even know how to find employees and they're quitting all the time and it's It's a fine line, right? To fuss at your volunteers. It's a fine line Absolutely, I totally get that right there. It's always been a significant number And there's also a percentage that don't pay their pledges and we don't kick them out. We just don't know what to do, you know We've all been on the other side of that equation too. Well, we worried the volunteers and people were less than appreciative for Yes, that happened. Yeah, like they got a free cleaning and they said you missed a spot Are we fun? I you know I'm happy to give you all of your money back Exactly. So here's how I've always dealt with this and I I hope this helps anybody that's on here I believe we must treat people The way we want to be treated even if they don't deserve it And so I've always told our cleaning for reason partners if a patient is ungrateful You still did the right thing Right. I've had people over the years say debbie. I just don't want to do this anymore because People aren't grateful. I'm like, well, what percentage? Well, almost almost none of them are ungrateful, right? Most of them are like in tears and they're hugging you and they're thanking you and they're can I pay you most of them But that one negative person it's like they've been toxic all their life. They didn't just get toxic the day they got cancer so Serve them. You're the one you're doing the right thing and if they get too mean and nasty just tell them. I'm sorry. I can't come back Yeah We've got uh, just a couple of minutes left here before we get to the top of the hour. It's amazing how quickly time flies. Um I think this has been useful. This has been been good information. I know that I I've learned a lot in the last couple of minutes We have have left here debbie um You know, could you speak to You know, what you see the future of of cleaning for a reason to be and how You know, this is a bump in the road But this isn't going to be something that we're not going to be having this discussion every year at this time And you know what and what do you need? What are you asking for from from our audience moving forward? So Here's what I want to leave everybody with I believe cleaning for a reason is the best thing for our industry as as individual cleaning business owners It gets you noticed it can make you famous if you want it to in your community It can cause your consumers your colleagues your prospects your employees to admire your business Which I think is important, you know, there's a difference between Awareness, which is what you pay for with marketing and affinity Which is what can't buy right it's when the public says I like that company And so I believe cleaning for reason is very powerful for business owners I think it's important for all of us to incorporate giving into our life If you want to raise your having level you have to raise your giving level. I do believe that I've seen it my own life I I never believe it's the right thing To take on the victim Mentality, I think that's a mistake and I think it holds people back I don't point fingers at people and say you should have done this and you should have done that I just say How can I help and that's the place I come from and I think it's served me pretty well In my career and I feel That issa should be thanked and honored And appreciated for all that they've done Because I don't know that cleaning for reason would be here if they hadn't stepped in and helped and tried really hard To spend a lot of money to try to help us grow But at the end of the day They're a trade association And they don't do this and we're all learning and so my commitment is To the board i'm going to step back in and be a face that can inspire people to Ramp up the number of patients they clean for or at least Do the patients they've committed to clean for and to increase their pledges And to consider using their business to maybe raise a thousand dollars a year And I think if we get cleaning for reason back to where the budget Was self-sustaining I think issa will be thrilled to continue to help us But we have to be creative and know what we're asking for because I didn't even know what to ask for Right I think we have to be creative and say okay. Here's what we need from you issa But I think maybe the opposite happened. It was like hey guys, what are you gonna do for us? And and they're like, I don't know let's spend some money and see if we can grow it Yeah, but I think it takes more than that. I think it takes all of us I know what I need debbie. I mean, what do you need? I need a scoreboard on the cleaning for a reason Page that's at the top that shows where are we how much money? You know, how much money have we got? How much have we raised? Where are we going with that? Yes So We are going to create so I made a commitment To use my event. So I have a public event cbf live coming up in april And I've never really tried to talk about it with cleaning for a reason just because I always want to be very careful to keep a separate a keep Complete separation But it isn't helping and my community is an incredible cbf membership community And so I I committed to using that event Which I have every year to recognizing cleaning for reason partners generating donations for cleaning for reason And we're going to raise a hundred thousand dollars at that event And we're going to have a leaderboard and we're going to have a thermometer And we're going to do it and I know my my friends in this world Are going to help me our sponsors and our individual members. I believe we'll raise it Not at the event, but we're going to raise the commitments of a hundred thousand at the event And we're going to create a I've already asked if they have the in fact I'm having a meeting tomorrow with the the technology people for the click and pledge where they will create a leaderboard And the different groups of people can set their goals and they're just like, oh, I'm at 500 out of my 1000 So we're going to have all that. Yes, you'll be able to have one if you want cleaning business today Could have one I I would love that right we can you said we are competitors in many ways But you know, there's always more customers out there than any of us can help It's a game that we play Exactly It's just it's just a numbers game so we can compete and try to raise the most I would love that You know me. I love to compete. I don't care what it is. My husband always teasing me He's like you don't even care what the prize is. You just want to win Like if I win, I'm going to get a pencil I'm going to win that, you know, he's like he he laughs at me all the time He's like you don't even care what the prize is but We're going to do that now in terms of seeing where we spend the money Anybody that wants the 990 can ask for it. You can see how the money is spent And I believe it'll probably be up in in charity, you know 2019 tax returns were very late this past year. I only just filed my 2019 tax returns like That latest deadline that the government gave us. So I'm sure cleaning for reasons and issa charities taxes are still in the works Now issa foundation has a 990 Does cleaning for a reason do a separate 990 or is cleaning for a reason rolled into issa foundation and it's rolled in I'm sure there's a breakdown though. There's probably a breakdown, but it's rolled in because cleaning for reason is no longer It's considered a program of issa foundation. It's a program now We're uh, we're out of time, but just for anybody who wants to know I was able to pull up the issa foundation This is the most recent one for I guess fiscal year 18 um Yeah, I guess because of kovid the 19 taxes didn't even get turned in until the middle of the summer. So It was very late but um There you go. Daddy. Hey, thanks for taking the the the the afternoon here and sharing with us. This is uh, This is useful and and important stuff and You know, I hope this helped. I I I know more I feel better Yeah, and and we say I hope it helped you the whole reason we have been doing smart business moves for the last year Is for the same reason every single day. We're trying to raise up this industry for last year. God give me strength Yeah And this is part of and You guys have done a great job. You've been very consistent and um, what I'd like to leave people with is With any nonprofit right Most of them are good and are doing the best they can. It's the bad ones that create the bad reputation, but cleaning for reason issa charities It's good people on that board. They really do care They tried very hard to make a difference And it is on us as the residential cleaning community that are the cleaning for reason program It is on us to sustain it. I don't think we're that far to go It's not like we have to bring in millions. We don't Right, we have to bring in a few hundred thousand dollars, but not millions and that that to me Seems achievable. It's not like this goal. That's impossible So I'm going to ask if you're not a part of cleaning for reason to join We need you If you are a part of cleaning for reason, please go open your email We we've got a link in there asking you to raise your pledges. Please go open your email and If you if if neither work Go donate and one more thing liz. I know we have to go but would Anybody that wants to ask me anything that they felt like I have an awkward question I don't want to ask it in public call my cell phone I will answer any awkward question about money. That's usually the question, right? Yeah, you want to know how much somebody makes I'll tell you you want me to put your cell phone in the chat Sure Absolutely 9 7 2 8 2 7 7 8 3 7 9 7 2 8 2 7 7 8 3 7 They can text me And say hey, I need to ask some some tough questions. I welcome them. Please just call me Well, you know what debbie? Thank you so much You have just been so great about being transparent answering all of the questions and trying to deal with this So I think it's going to be huge huge help to everybody to just understand where we're going. Thank you what we're doing and how we can all help out Thank you for the opportunity both of you. I appreciate it All right, and this is a little past the top of the hour. Thanks guys for hanging in the crowd No worries. This was very very important. So it's all good Have a great west you reek and be safe. We'll be back, uh, monday five o'clock eastern. Bye. Bye. Thank you. Thanks, liz