 From around the globe, it's theCUBE with coverage of KubeCon and CloudNativeCon North America 2020 virtual, brought to you by Red Hat, the CloudNative Computing Foundation and Ecosystem Partners. Everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of KubeCon, CloudNativeCon North America 2020. Normally theCUBE is in person, but like the EU event, this is going to be a remote virtual event. This is theCUBE virtual, we are theCUBE virtual. This is a keynote and show review with our analysts and hosts, Lisa Martin, Yopeshkar and myself. Guys, welcome to the program. Lisa, great to see you. You, great to see you remotely. Thanks for coming on. Always great to be a part of theCUBE and theCUBE virtuals. Keeping us connected. So KubeCon, CloudNativeCon's November and I remember in 2016, the first KubeCon, that's when Hillary Clinton got defeated by Trump. And now this year, the elections passed this time and Biden's a winner. So, you know, election, more good vibes this year from the community because everyone was kind of sad last time. So if you remember the first KubeCon, it was in Seattle during that time. So that was important to kind of reminisce on that. The other thing I want to bring up to you guys is the somber news of the passing of Dan Kahn, who was the executive director of CNCF. He passed a few weeks ago at his home. His illness and great legend. So we're going to call that out and say our thoughts and prayers go to the family's condolences to his wife and kids. So what I'm saying, Dan, Godspeed. Funny Dan's story, Lisa and Yopi said, I always pronounce his name wrong on the queue. He's like, John, it's Kahn, not Kahn. They're like, okay, all right, Dan, good to see you. Sorry, but a great guy, friend to everyone and super great human being. So rest in peace. Okay, KubeCon. I think the big thing this year, when I get your thoughts, Yopi, start with you. CNCF, what are they up to? Obviously remote. It's been a terrible year with the pandemic and all the disruptions and change. Your thoughts on where they are now this year. So, you know, it's funny, even though it's remote, even though reaching people has become harder, you know, we all have to deal with this from our, you know, our living room, our office at home. But still the CNCF is doing what it's been doing for a little while now. So instead of focusing on the technology part of our RC world, they're focusing on, you know, the community side of it. So they're fighting for inclusivity. They're fighting for diversity, for resilience in terms of their community. And they are really working on making the open source community more accessible, both for end user companies as well as software developers to enter the space and have their contribution and you know, make sure that everyone can reap full benefits of these open source products. You know, we talked to Priyanka Sharma and Stephen Augustus and this was a big theme. There's been a lot of engagement online. Obviously, even though they have a remote platform, some people are thrilled with it. Some aren't, no one's ever happy these days. It's on the web, it's always difficult. But the community's been activated and a lot more diversity. I covered the big story around, you know, master's sleigh, the terminology now is going to go main, you know, terminology and how that's going to be safer. Also for diversity, STEM, women in tech. This has been a big theme. I'd love to get your thoughts on that because I think that's been a very positive thing. Lisa, you and I have been talking about this for years on theCUBE around this diversity piece. What's your thoughts as well? I'd like to get both your reactions on where this direction's going. Yeah, you know, I think there's a number of things that have been catalyzed this year by the challenges that we've been through and the diversity push into the spotlight. Again, the spotlight is different and it's really causing change for good. I think it's opening people's minds and perspectives as is I think this entire time. You know, it's for events like KubeCon and all the other events that we are normally getting a lot of airline miles for John and you. But we're not getting, we're sitting at home with our in-home studios but at the same time the engagement is increasing at every event. So I imagine that the great KubeCon and cloud native community that Dan Kohn has built is only getting bigger and stronger even though folks are physically separated. That's been just been my observation and something I felt from every show I've covered every interview I've done that diversity is being raised now to a visibility level that we haven't seen in terms of catalyzing action. Do you have your reaction to that? Yeah, no, I completely agree and I want to add to that where just like Lisa said, we used to fly to these events. We were privileged and lucky to be there to have that opportunity. But because everything is now digital and virtual, it opens the community up to so many other people who for whatever reason weren't able to join in-person but are able to join virtually and digitally. So I think even though there's a lot of downsides to this pandemic, this is one of the small nuggets of seeing the CNCF community opening up to a broader audience. Yeah, and that's a great point. We aren't getting the airline miles. We're getting certainly the Zoom and the Kube mileage remote, Lisa, because what's interesting you've saying is that we're getting more action with him coming in, doing some more hosting yourself. L.A. Amagasu as well, others. But we can get people more because remember the people aren't, oh, we are not trying so it aren't other people that were coming, the big names, but also the fresh voices, the new names, names we don't know yet. And I think that's what we're seeing with the remote interviews is that it's one click away from being on the Kube now. So Kube Virtual is 24-7-365 and we're going to continue to do that. I think this is going to change the makeup of the engagement and the conversation because you're going to have more participation that's going to be highly accelerated but also these new voices are going to bring a positive change. It might upset the hierarchy a little bit in the working groups at the top, but they're open. I mean, I talked with Stephen Augustus, he's totally cool with this. Chris Anicek is the same way, he's like, hey, bring on more people. This is the vibe of the Linux Foundation, it's always been. It's always been that way. And going back to the early open source events in Europe that I went to, I started doing that as a teenager 15 years ago. And the vibe hasn't necessarily changed. The makeup of the audience certainly has changed. From it being dominated by white males, it's totally opened up. And if we see that happening with the CNCF now as well, I think that's for the better. I think our community, the IT community and the open source community need that resilience, need all of those different perspectives from all of different kinds of people from different walks of life with different histories. And I think that only makes the community stronger and more viable in the long run. And I think that's what open source needs. Sorry, it's that thought and diversity that I think we're seeing even more now. And just my perspective is just the light that this challenging time is shining on exposing things that are really opportunities. And it's, I think it's imperative to look at it in that way, but that thought diversity just opens up so many more opportunities that folks that are maybe a little bit more tunnel visioned aren't thinking of. But for businesses and people to thrive and move forward and learn from this, we need to be able to take into consideration other concepts, other perspectives as we learn and grow. That's a good point. I was giving a shout out to Dan Khan and when I heard the news, I put a clip, one of my favorite clips of the interviews was really me kind of congratulating him on the success of CNCF. I think it was like two years ago or maybe last year, I forget. But I was a critic of it every initially and I was publicly on the record on theCUBE. Lisa, you remember with Stu who's now having a great new career at Red Hat. Stu and I were arguing and I was saying, Stu, I think this is going to fail because if CNCF doesn't balance the end user piece with the logos that were coming because remember you, but four years ago it was like a NASCAR logo farm. It's like, you know, it's like, you know everything was like sponsored by Google, and then Amazon came in. You look at the sponsor list. It was like, it's the who's who in cloud and now cloud native. It was the industry. The entire industry was like stacked up against re-invent. This is before Amazon made their move. I mean, Azure made their move before Google Cloud kind of cut their footing. So it was essentially KubeCon against AWS. And I said, that's going to fail. And I had to eat my words. And I did it, rightfully so. But the balance between end user projects and vendor was very successful. And this still plays out today. Lisa, this is important now because you said pandemic, the ecosystem still needs to thrive, but there's no face-to-face anymore. What's the challenge? What's the opportunity there? I want to put you on the spot. Sure, no, I think it's both challenging and opportunistic. I tend to look at it more from an opportunistic view. I think that it forced a lot of us, even people like myself who worked from home a lot before when I wasn't traveling for my marketing company or the cube, you can really have very personal interactions with people on Zoom. And I've found that it's connecting people in a deeper way than you even would get in the office. That's something that I actually really appreciate and how it has been an opportunity to really kind of expand relationships or to open new doors that wouldn't be there if we were able to be sitting together physically in person. And it's obviously changing all the vendors that we work with. It's very different to engage an audience when you are only on camera. And it's something that as we know as we work with folks who haven't done it before, that's one of the things that I think a lot of the C-suite I talked to misses is that opportunity to be on a stage and be able to share your body language and your energy with your customers and your partners and your employees. But I actually do think that there is what we're doing through Zoom and all these virtual platforms like theCUBE virtual as well is we're opening up doors for in a more incident way that I think the conversations are more authentic. People have like three year old disc coworkers and they're running in the room and they're screaming behind that. That's how things are today. We're learning to work with that but we're also seeing people in a more human way. Cities, containers, mainstream and shifting left. The role of security this year, what's your take? So I mean, if we're talking about security and nothing else I think we're at a point where the CNCF has become mainstream. Its most popular products have become mainstream because if we're talking about security there's not a lot left. And I say that with a little bit of sarcasm I don't mean to offend anyone but if I did I do apologize. But security even though it is super important again, it means that we have moved on from talking about Kubernetes and container management or we've moved on from storage. It means that the technology part of the CNCF like the hard work has been done for 80% but we're now into the 20% where we're kind of dotting the eyes and making sure that we cover all of the bases. And so one of the new sandbox projects that has been accepted I think today even is cert manager to manage certificates at scale in an automated fashion. And I think that's one prime example of how security is becoming the theme and kind of the conversation at KubeCon this year where we're again seeing that maturity come into play with even with sandbox projects and now being able to help customers and help end users with certificates which is in the macro picture, a very specific, a very niche thing to be able to solve with open source software but for every company this is one of those vital kind of boilerplate security measures so that the customer and all of their infrastructure remain safe. I think Kube, what you're kind of really articulating and there is the evolution of CNCF I much to John's surprise is you said you thought in the very beginning that this wasn't going to take off. It has clearly Dan Kun's left a great legacy there but we're seeing the evolution of that. I do, though John, want to ask you because you did a lot of the interviews here. We've been talking for what nine months now on the Kube virtual about the acceleration of transformation of every business to go from that, okay, how do we do this work in this weird environment? Keep the lights on. How do we actually be successful and actually become a thriving business as things go forward? What are some of the things that you heard from the guests regarding COVID as an accelerator? Well, I think a couple of things, good question. I think it ranges, right? So they had some news that they're trying to announce obviously new survey, certifications K8 security certification, new tech radar support diversity stats, the normal stuff they do at the event they got to get the word out. So that was one theme I heard but on the overall macro trend, we saw the COVID impact and no one's afraid of it there. I mean, I think, you know, part of the legacy of these tech communities is they've been online. They're used to being online. So it's not a new thing. So I don't think that the work environment has been that much of a disruption to the people in the core community. Linux Foundation, for instance, had a great chat with Chris Anasick around this. He's the CTO. He's been the COO, variety of senior roles. In fact, they're creating a template around CNCF and then they're announced the FinOps Foundation, JR Stormit is the executive director. That's part of Linux Foundation. It's a practitioner community. So I think teasing out the conversation is you're going to see a template model of the CNCF where you're going to see how groups work together. And I think what COVID has definitely shown in some of the things that you guys were saying around how people are going to be more engaged, more diversity, more access. I think you're going to start to see new social constructs emerge around distinct user groups. And I think this FinOps Foundation is a tell sign around how groups of people are going to start together, whether they're Cube hosts coming together and Cube fans and Cube alumni. I mean, I mean, think about the alumni that have been on theCUBE, Lisa, Tim Hopkins, Sara Navotny, Kelsey Hightower, Dan Burns, Craig McLucky, I mean, we've had everybody on. That's now a captain of the industry. So, and then, you know, we had Capital One, we've had, you know, lift on. I mean, it's becoming a really tight knit community. Everyone knows each other. And I think now they realize that they have a lot of power to infect change. And so when you're trying to affect change, that's a good thing and people are pumped about. So I think the big focus was CNCF is successful. Again, there's a somber note around Dan Kahn's passing, but I think he had already moved on to a new position, so he was already passed the baton to management, but he did leave a mark. But I think there's Priyanka Sharma, she's doing a great job, people are upbeat. And I think the theme is Kubernetes, it happened. It went next level, then it's going next level again. And I think that's kind of what people really aren't saying is kind of the public secret, which is, okay, this thing's going mainstream. Now you're going to start to see it in commercial deployments. You're going to start to see it scale into organizations. And that's not the cool kids or the emerging DevOps crowd. That's IT, right? So you know it's going to happen. It's like, hey, you know, I'm an IT guy or a developer. What is this? It has to work well. That's the big thing I think people weren't talking about. That's the most important story. I think another element too that John is the cultural shift. You know, we were talking when we talked about DevOps, who always think about speed. And I talked to some folks who said, you know, it has to be the IT cultures and the business cultures coming together in a meaningful way to collaborate in a very new way. Thankfully we have the technology to enable us to collaborate. But I think that's been another underlying theme that I've heard a lot through recent times is that facilitator of cultural change, which is always hard to do. And there's a bit of a catalyst here for organizations to not just ski the lights on, but to be successful going forward. And find new ways of delighting their customers. Well, we'll get the final word. I just want to say my big takeaway to the show is, and we'll go down the line, I'll start Lisa then you hope you can go, is the usage of cloud and multicloud is here. Everyone sees that. I think there's a financial aspect going on where the security you're going to be tied in. I think you're going to see new sets of services come in built on the foundation of the CNCF. But cloud and multicloud is here. Multicloud meaning edge as well. That is definitely on everyone's radar. That was a big theme throughout the interview. So we'll see more of that. Lisa, your takeaways. Yeah, I would agree with that. And I think one of the biggest things that I hear consistently is the opportunities that have been uncovered, the collaboration becoming tighter and folks having the opportunity to engage more with events like KubeCon and CNCF because of this virtual shift. I think there's only a lot of positive things that we're going to see to come. Yep. Yeah, my point of view is, I mean, open source is validated completely, right? It's a viable model to build around software. On the one hand, on the other hand, the CNCF's role in making that open source community broadly accessible and inclusive is I think the biggest win to look back at the last year. Well, I'm super excited for moving on to the next event. It's been great pleasure. Lisa, you, you guys are great co-host, virtual cube. Thanks for participating and we'll see you next time. Thank you. Okay, it's the cubes coverage of KubeCon 2020, Cloud NativeCon virtual. It's the cube virtual. We are the cube virtual. Thanks for watching.