 And welcome to the afternoon meeting of the Vermont House Education Committee meeting. We are continuing our discussion on the COVID-19 response and we have a variety of people here from speaking to us from the field as to what's going on. I spoke briefly with Milmore the other day. I'm happy to have him here today. So Mil and Ed Nasta. Why don't you go first as the Executive Director of the Vermont Independent Schools Association? And I understand this is primarily related to special education. Is that correct? That is correct. Thank you so much, Chairwoman Webb, for welcoming me and members of the committee for your attention here this afternoon. I just want to make a quick observation that I this is certainly not my first teleconference in the last few days. I've looked at several online from state government. I've also participated in others with other groups for other reasons. Figuring out things as we go along seems to be a remarkable talent here in Vermont. We're moving it very rapidly toward adapting to this extraordinary situation that we're in. It's working reasonably well, I think. So I am Milmore, Executive Director of the Vermont Independent Schools Association. And yes, I am here today to talk about special education in the special education only independent schools. We held a teleconference amongst the heads of many of those schools a few days ago. I wrote a brief summary of that meeting and forwarded it to the two education committees. And that was the impetus for my being invited to be here today to brief you on what is being observed out there in the field amongst these schools, of which there are 32 in Vermont enrolling roughly 800 students. These are all students who are quite disabled. Their disabilities are so serious that they can't stay in their former local school. So they have been sent to a school that specializes in the disabilities that they have. Adaptation to the COVID-19 school closings and distance learning developments has been really challenging for these schools. The school heads told me that many of them were skeptical at the very beginning that a distance learning approach would work. But their skepticism has been proven at least partly mistaken. Things are working to some extent. But as you might imagine, there are some problems. And I want to address some of those. First, I'm going to talk about the problems that they're experiencing from the student point of view. And then I'll turn to the school's point of view. The main problems are getting in communication with schools, with students' homes. Internet access, as everybody I think understands, is limited in some regions of Vermont. In some regions, it's not even present at all. Some households cannot afford internet service or the electronic equipment that goes with it, the laptops or iPads or so forth. I listened back on Friday when Erin McGuire testified to your committee. And I remember clearly she stressed how important is family cooperation with a distance learning approach for students with disabilities. But family cooperation isn't always possible for a couple of important reasons. One might be that the family members are essential workers. They're out of the house. Or second, and this is really very important, is some families are very fragile. And students are part of that fragility. So reaching them is really important. And they are very hard to reach because even if they do have internet connections or telephone connections, sometimes there's no cooperation in actually making the contact. So those are all equity sort of issues tied up with the new medium of remote communication. The schools themselves, as you might imagine, are worried about revenue retaining staff, sustaining their business models, and moving into their programs that they have scheduled for the summer. Many independent, special and only schools have summer programs that are vital to their revenue streams for the entire year. At this point, nobody really knows. I don't think how that's going to shape up. So that's very much on their minds. Remember that these schools are all administratively independent, but they are wholly dependent on public education funds that flow through supervisory unions to sustain the special education services that they're providing. So they're in an anomalous situation in that respect. They do have some concerns about the extent to which they're going to be relieved of regulatory requirements that have to be met in ordinary times, like upcoming reviews and approvals. A bulletin just came out today, hours ago, from the Agency of Education saying, don't worry about that, we've got you covered. So that concern has just been relieved. I'm delighted to see that. It was a very logical thing for the agency and the State Board of Education to agree to. The schools are also concerned that as these new instructional techniques and new media are introduced, that they be forgiven or helped if requirements for confidentiality and other boundary issues are inadvertently or even necessarily breached. I think Ed Nasta, when he speaks later, can probably talk about specifics of that. And these schools need some understanding of the circumstances unique in the work that they're doing. The fragility of their students that I mentioned, the very narrow constraints in ordinary times within federal and state rules for how special education is conducted and the very detailed reporting requirements that prevail in normal times. So we're now getting information about the federal and state supports that are going to be available for small business. I expect that that will be very helpful in relieving some of the survival concerns that these schools have, but we don't have enough detail on that yet. I do know also that the Agency of Education is very aware of the equity challenges involved in delivery of special ed anywhere, not just in these schools. And I do expect that we're going to hear more from the agency as time goes on and as they have opportunities to get down to these more specific issues. So that's all I have in the way of reporting right now, Madam Chair, and I'll be happy to take questions. And then you can move on and hear from Ed Nasta. I have not seen the new guidance that came from the AOE. I did hear that it was out. I know we're certainly looking to see what kind of relief we got from the federal government in relation to even just things like the paperwork requirements. So thank you. Questions for Mil before we go on to Ed? Peter? Thanks. Something that came up when we were talking with Laura Sores of the Vermont School Board's Insurance Trust was about reimbursable unemployment benefits. I'm assuming most of the independent schools, especially special ed schools, are nonprofits that probably use an unemployment reimbursement model as opposed to being part of unemployment insurance. And I'm just curious if you've given that any thought or if that's a factor. I have not given that any thought myself. I'm sure that the schools themselves are looking very closely at that. I know the Labor Department has started to put out bulletins in that area, as well as the Agency of Commerce. And I know that there's probably not going to be widespread layoffs in the independent schools because they still need to be in business and it's the same thing with public schools. But the concern was folks who may have left employment and then get subsequently laid off from another job and the look back and what the impact might be. Independent schools are not part of the part of this, but are they? For property and liability and all that? That's a question I guess for Ed, better than me. I don't know that specifically. Let me just touch on one thing though that came up in our conversation a few days ago and that was that reimbursement to these schools or has been under normal circumstances based on contact time. But under this new system of the distance learning, we've got fewer hours of contact time and contact people are fewer. But that doesn't mean that there are a bunch of superfluous people all of a sudden because preparation of materials now is more time consuming. And so there's a lot more background work that's going on. And so the employees that are doing that need to be sustained as well. And I think that realization will filter through the process and those people will be covered. But it's just that's an example of the kind of small details that mean a lot if they're not handled. And that might be something that could be handled as opposed to all reimbursement model. Just well, it's just an aside wondering if some of those challenges will be removed once we move from a reimbursement model to a census based model? It will not work because it appears that census based model will not be applied to independent schools. That was a judgment made by the agency a few months ago. Yeah. And that's before the the panel, I believe. Yes. Okay. You know what, Serena, and Larry, I'm thinking maybe what would help is if we could get Ed in and then we can direct questions to both Ed and and Mill. Does that seem okay? Okay. You'll have the first. Go ahead, please. So I'm Ed Nast. I'm the executive director of the new school of Montpelier. New school of Montpelier is one of those schools that Mill was referring to. Independent approved school for special education only. So all our students come to us from the ascending school districts, the LEAs, on IEPs, and they've been found to have disabilities and challenges to the extent that the public schools have not been able to serve them adequately. So in terms of, you know, the continuum of disabilities, the children that we serve are at the far end of the continuum in terms of the more intensive needs. Children with classic autism and, you know, severe emotional disturbance and, you know, different trauma backgrounds and often multiple disabilities. So, you know, that said, you know, we have about 30 some students that, you know, we've been serving successfully for quite a while and with you know, Governor's order, we actually have done some pretty amazing work over the past couple of weeks that I'm surprised we've been able to do as well as we have in terms of setting up distance learning and being available to our students and really trying to offer as much contact and as much learning opportunity as possible. There are impediments. Some of them are technological in terms of, you know, some of our families do not have internet access or have some compromise in that regard. You know, the circumstances put a lot of stress on families because, you know, an adult needs to be available by and large to help ensure that the student is accessing the technology and participating in instruction. I am, you know, fairly confident that moving forward we will have the capability to provide a full day worth of instruction. Again, the limiting factors are availability of students and adults in the household to, you know, to help with that participation. And, you know, even under the best of circumstances, you know, it's going to be somewhat compromised due to the fact that, you know, we don't have face-to-face contact with the students and it limits the, you know, the possibilities of what we can do. So, you know, certainly we will commit to, you know, whatever we need to commit to in terms of continuing education. I am concerned about some of the guidance that came out from the Institute of Education just this afternoon. There's guidance that's entitled, guidance for approved independent schools, including residential facilities during COVID-19. And under the caption, tuition reimbursement, I just read you a few of the sentences that really cost me a lot of concern. It says, an LEA, which is the local sending school district, will not be required to reimburse and approve independent school for special education services that are not or cannot be substantially delivered during the period of school closure. Independent schools may receive reimbursement from an LEA for the delivery of compensatory services if determined necessary for a student's IEP team upon the return to school subject to the availability of funds for this purpose. So in, you know, part of the special education regulation allows for IEP teams to decide on whether there's a need for compensatory services if there's a disruption in the typical delivery of services. So that would be sort of after the fact after schools are back in regular operation, IEP teams would meet and decide whether there's, it was a level of regression or loss of skills that would require additional special education service. So that's sort of an after the fact way to address some of the instruction that students might be missing out on in the immediate, you know, foreseeable future in terms of moving to a distance learning platform and trying to offer the special ed services that we can. The way this reads, it really is concerning and I've already emailed Deb Ormsby who is listed as the contact because if in fact they're going to say, well, we're not providing the level of service that we would typically do and they're not going to pay us, you know, the full tuition for our regular program, it really, it, that's a problem in terms of, you know, making business decisions around staffing and cash flow and revenue projections. So this is the first day that I've seen anything that really speaks to that and I'm hoping that there's some amendment that allows for a little more flexibility because that does put us at risk as a business and as an organization. Okay, great. Tracy at some point might want to chat with you about that as well. Serena, you had a question. I'm wondering if this situation provides schools, independent schools throughout the state to collaborate and coordinate services or resources or staff now that people won't have to drive that you could do it remotely? You know, I think, you know, with Mills leadership, certainly the independent schools have, you know, met several times and have been collaborating, you know, both online and through email. You know, there's a weekly meeting for those of us who are special ed only independent schools. I think we're all trying to share ideas. There's been a ton of collaboration around resources and and it's quite amazing, quite frankly, you know, the online resources in terms of delivering curriculum online that are available. So, you know, those are all good things. We're all learning and becoming, you know, more competent with using online curriculum and getting more comfortable with, you know, having meetings and providing instruction online. So, those are all good things that actually would, you know, bode well for education in general. In the future, I think, you know, if I could speak for a lot of us, certainly the there are concerns about funding, you know, whether we're profit or non-profit and we happen to be a for-profit school, you know, funding, you know, reliable funding is critical. And unless the school districts get assurances that they're going to get their special ed reimbursement, LEAs are not going to make the commitment to continue paying their tuition to the independent special ed schools. So, you know, that, you know, that's a big one. Some of the other things that Mill had mentioned earlier, I do worry about the stress on parents. You know, some of these kids have significant behavioral issues or communication issues. It's going to be a long haul over the next 10 weeks for, you know, parents, you know, to have these kids sequestered in their home. So, I do worry about how much we can expect from parents in terms of assisting with instruction. In terms of confidentiality, there are platforms, and I believe Zoom is one of them, that is FERPA and HIPAA compliant. And we've researched those and we are only using platforms that are compliant with the confidentiality regulations. And we do traditionally offer a five-week summer program and obviously that's in question at the moment as well, dependent on, you know, how things progress in relation to the virus. So, you know, part of it is part of what's been, you know, a challenge for me at least as an administrator of the school and having 60-some odd employees is just the unpredictability of all this. And, you know, some of the guidance has been contradictory and just a little bit difficult to decipher. But we're in a better place now in terms of offering program for all our students. And certainly I'm ready to commit to providing a full day's worth of instruction. I can't guarantee that all our students are going to be willing or able to access that instruction. Thank you. Good to see you. Representative James, unmute. There you go. Sorry, I thought I hit the button. Ed, just to ask a district specific question, how would, I'm concerned about the reimbursement question that you raised and how that might impact the school like Byrne Burton Academy. They're in my district. Can you fill me in a little bit more on that, please? Could you elaborate on that just a bit so I can understand? Yeah, I was understanding, Ed, to be saying that independent schools, according to the guidance that was released by the AOE today, would be perhaps not reimbursed in full but only partially for special education services that were delivered remotely during this closure time. And because Byrne Burton is in my district, I'm wondering how that might impact, you know, some of our academy schools like DBA? I can't comment yet because I just scanned that document once very briefly. I think maybe Ed is in the same position I am. Plus, we're waiting to hear back from the question he sent to the agency. Go ahead. If you read this one sentence of guidance, you know, as it's stated, an LEA will not be required to reimburse and approve independent school for special education services that are not or cannot be substantially delivered during the period of school closure. So in my mind, by definition, you know, we can't provide what we had been providing because we can't have, you know, face-to-face contact with our students. So, you know, either they need to define it better or again, I would hope that they would be a little more liberal giving the context that we're working in. And it would affect Byrne Burton because Byrne Burton does provide special ed services to some of their students. Yep. All right. Thanks for getting that on our radar. Yeah. No, it's an important one. And I just, I'm shocked quite frankly that they would, you know, maybe they need to reword it, but it's, you know, if you read it literally, it's not good news for us. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else? Just have to use the little hand. I'm trying to get you ready for the floor. I don't have a little hand. There's not one there. So, Mel, I have a question if you don't mind. And it relates to one of the paragraphs where you say that schools need clear guidance and assurances on, or no, that's not the one. It's about the 175 day school year requirement and possible extensions of the school year. Can you expand on that? The agency has now answered those questions, just in the last couple of rounds of memos coming out. So I feel much more comfortable about those now than I did when we had that conference and when I wrote that summary. We'll get that document up. I saw that it went through. I have not read it yet. Mel, actually if you would save a little time and maybe send that document to Avery, then we'll get it posted on our website. Are you happy to do so? Yes. It's still unclear, as Ed said, about what we're going to be doing in the summer. But at least we're beginning to get some clarity about the 175 day school year requirement. Right. The compensatory education in 175 days. Okay. I think, Peter, you have a question. I do. Ed, it sounds like a little bit of the problem you're describing is that, as you said in your testimony, you can't guarantee that every student will avail themselves of the remote learning services that you're offering, yet your business model counts on reimbursement for providing services to those children. So that seems to be a difficult balancing act. If they're not taking advantage of the services, therefore you're not providing them, therefore you're not necessarily entitled to a reimbursement. But I guess, so that's just acknowledging perhaps a challenging problem to wade through. But correct or wrong, if you're not providing services to a student, the responsibility to fulfill the IEP contract is really on the LEA. Am I correct with that? You're correct that the LEA is ultimately responsible for their provision of IEP services. They essentially contract with us to implement the IEP that they write. So that that is correct. And as a practical matter, I don't believe the LEAs want to suddenly take on the responsibility of trying to provide IEP services for these students because for one, you know, I'm not sure that they have capacity, you know, these students have been out of district in some cases for multiple years. The LEA teachers don't really know the students and I, you know, I would suspect that, you know, they would want us to do everything that, you know, that we can to provide the services. And I have reached out to each of the LEAs that we work with that have sent students to us. And unanimously, they were grateful for everything that we're doing. They wanted us to continue. Sorry, is that me doing that? Sorry. And they said unequivocally that, you know, there's no problem, they would honor their contracts and full tuition up and through April 6. And beyond that, they were noncommittal, waiting on guidance from the AOE. And again, that's why I'm so concerned about this guidance that the AOE put out. Because, you know, my interpretation is that that means that there's going to be some, you know, significant compromise about what the LEAs are going to be authorized to, you know, compensate us. And, you know, your question about, so even if we're prepared and ready and able to provide the services by virtue of the fact that the student isn't accessing them, you know, what does that mean in this context? Because as Mil referred to earlier, there is a lot of preparation that's going into this. And, you know, teachers are spending their time maybe doing different things. It's not meaning that there's, you know, less time needed to deliver this type of instruction. I guess just to follow up, it would seem that it's not really in anybody's interest to see this crisis cause failure within the, within the special and only independent schools, because you're clearly providing a service that they have, that public schools have sought out or LEAs have sought out. You know, absolutely. So I think it's, you know, if in fact the AOE is taking, you know, that kind of position that we really don't matter, I think it's very short-sighted. And I do think there will be a major backlash from LEAs and parents and IEP teams because we wouldn't have these students unless, you know, we were needed as a service. And I'm speaking, I mean, I've been working as a private school administrator for, you know, a little over two years now, but the majority of my professional career has been in the public schools as a special ed administrator and as a school principal. And, you know, I know the dynamics of trying to provide for some of these kids and, you know, there are times when you need and legally need a continuum of placements because some kids just cannot be served. And, you know, part of our goal for all of our students is a reintegration plan to try to get kids back to a less restrictive environment. But, you know, that's, you know, that takes, you know, months if not years to actualize. So, you know, we're part of the big system and we're all sort of interconnected, as Mill said. So, you know, we just want to, I want to make sure that people are aware that, you know, at some point we're going to be back in regular business and people still need us. I want to thank you very much for bringing in this perspective. I think one of the things that this crisis has definitely helped us do is begin to uncover some of the weaknesses and inequities and vulnerabilities in the system. And here is definitely another one that we will be looking into. I appreciate getting the copy of the guidance so we can take a look at that and follow up with the AOE. We certainly know that the agency is working as fast as they can and working with folks to forth them. There are times that maybe guidance needs to be pulled back and reviewed and we will hear from them next week, I believe. What I'd like to do now, okay, we'll do one more from Representative Elder and then I want to move on to the other public school advocates. So, Representative Elder. Thank you. Just briefly, curious if your new guidance answered any questions or clarified anything in terms of compliance for districts more generally with special ed? I know that we had heard some questions about that from Erin McGuire on Friday. Just whether certain IP guidelines and rules could be met. And I'm just curious whether, and I know it's an issue of having revenues go to the independent programs, as you've been talking about, but also I was concerned about liabilities or problems with revenues generally from the federal level to local to districts. And so I'm just curious, do you know if there was helpful clarification in today's guidance? I think that would probably be better directed to Tracy, because she's involved in this more broadly to include all of the public schools. So I know, Tracy, you were going to speak to us. Do you want to just keep that? Did you have anything planned that you were going to say? Yeah, I was going to give an update, which... Okay. So if you can hold that question and your update, that would be great, because I think that that's an important question. And I want to thank Mill and Ed very much for being with us. You're more than welcome to stay on, or you can watch it on YouTube. Either is fine. We are going to hear from the school boards, the principals, the council's special administrators, the NEA, and the superintendents next. And really, I think what the focus is, and I've spoken with them and they've agreed, I'm pretty sure, to speak with us on a weekly basis, to basically give us in this during this period of time where things seem to be changing so rapidly, to just give us what are the key learnings this week that you have each uncovered. And in addition to that, what are things that we could do for you, either statutorily or through funding, that will inform or guide us as we move through this current situation, as well as preparing for the future. So we really need to hear from you as we try to sort out what our role in this process is. So I'd like to start with Sue from the school boards. Hello, everyone. Thank you for the opportunity to give you an update, and it's good to see all of you. I'm just going to give you a brief update on what's happening with Vermont school boards. As you all probably know, Governor Scott signed into law yesterday H 681, which the House voted on last week, and it establishes temporary election provisions and temporary changes to the open meeting law during the state of emergency, and that's something that we have been focusing on this week. The temporary election provisions are going to be very important for the districts that haven't voted on their budgets yet or and those districts that had their budgets defeated during the first vote. There are nine, according to my count, there are nine budgets that were defeated on town meeting day, and there are nine districts that have not voted yet on their budget. So those 18 districts or 18 budgets will need to be voted on. And just to go over briefly the temporary elections provisions that should hopefully help with that process. One of the changes is that during the state of emergency, people who are running for school board don't have to collect signatures on a petition in order to get their name on the ballot. Another provision has to do with temporary elections procedures. The Secretary of State is authorized to permit procedures that protect the health, safety, and welfare of voters, elections, workers, and candidates. And some of the ways that are that is allowed to be done is by requiring mail balloting, requiring town clerks to send ballots by mail to all registered voters, creating early and mail ballot collection stations, permitting municipal clerks to process and begin counting ballots in a 30-day window, proceeding the day of the election, permitting drive-up car window collection of ballots by election officials, extending the time for municipal clerks to process and count ballots, and extending voting hours on the day of the election. And then another change is, allows any municipality to apply the Australian ballot system to any of its municipal elections held in the year 2020 by vote of its legislative body. Normally that would be a vote that would have to happen at an annual or special meeting of the municipality, but this is a special provision just for 2020s, which will allow Australian balloting to occur in places that it wasn't previously voted on by the municipality. So we are thankful that these temporary provisions are going to provide some flexibility for how school board elections and school budget votes can occur. And we're sending out a legislative report to member boards today, notifying them of these changes and plan to notify the specific boards that are affected. As I mentioned earlier, those who have not voted on budgets yet or those whose budgets were defeated, so that they have the information available to them to be able to make decisions at a local level as to how they're going to proceed. The second thing that we've been focusing on are the temporary open meeting law changes. I think you're probably familiar with those that eliminated the requirement for a designated physical meeting location. There's some requirements for public access to those electronic meetings and a requirement that meetings be recorded, which is something new for school boards. So we're getting that information out to them and also preparing some guidance on how to conduct electronic meetings. It's kind of new territory for most school boards, especially it is new territory if they're all doing it, because in the past there always had to be a physical location for the public to attend. I think those have been our two main areas of focus so far this week. It is only Tuesday, so I'm sure we're going to be having a lot of other areas as well, but I think one of the things that I've heard from multiple committees at the legislature wanting to know about the school district budget votes, I think that's a big area of concern. I'm happy to see if there are any school board chairs that are boards that still need to vote on their budget that would like to testify and let you know about any concerns that they have. I'm happy to do that if you would like to hear from them directly. I think so. I think particularly in relation to the testimony that we're going to be, the discussion that we're going to be having on Thursday with the Ways and Means Committee, I think there is great concern about what is happening with the districts that don't have a budget. What happens if you don't have a budget by June 30th? There are definitely some concerns there. There's also will be questions that I'm sure will be asked related to should all votes happen at the same time? Should all municipalities collect taxes at the same time for school boards since we have 125 million that's still outstanding for 2020? Right. But would people like to hear from a couple of those school districts that are struggling? That don't have them? Yeah, that would be great. Okay. Perhaps we could do that Tuesday morning, Thursday morning, excuse me. I'll see what I can do. Yeah. And if we can't do it then I don't know if there's going to be time, maybe there'll be time Thursday afternoon when we're doing, when we're meeting with Ways and Means that could be another possibility. Actually that might even be a better time. So Representative James you have a question of Sue. Just a quick question. Just coincidentally earlier today I had received a question asking whether there'd been any conversation about extending that June 30 deadline. That's us. That will be part of the conversation. In statute right now it says that school districts can borrow up to 87% of last year's budget and where they borrow from I've since learned is the bank. Is that your understanding, Sue? Yes. Okay. So that's a nice thing not an AOE thing. Yeah, that will be part of what we'll be talking about with Ways and Means. Great, thanks. So there is something that we can play a role. Okay, so if you could hang in there, their questions might come back that you could answer. Let's go to Jay. Good afternoon everybody. Good afternoon. I will keep it much more brief than the other day. You got to hear my impassioned plea the other day so I'll keep it much simpler today, much shorter anyway. So we want to hear what's happening from the field and what's new this week? Well, new since the last time I talked to you is not a lot. It's a lot of the same stuff. I just wanted to start by saying that the AOE is putting out a continuity of learning plan and the superintendent has been working with them and I was invited in on that conversation and perhaps Jeff will talk more about that when Jeff Francis when he's on but I think the key is that we have to make sure that whatever we do is doable and I don't know how many of you are familiar with Dilbert but I'm reminded about Dilbert. There's Wally the real lazy guy and one of the other workers walks up to Wally and says you know I'm a pragmatist. I really like plans that are implementable that can be done and Wally says I don't like those plans at all. I want them to be very elaborate and really look that on paper and not be something that can actually be done because it's a lot easier and I think we need to make sure that we stand around with what can be done and I think you've heard that message from me repeatedly. So you know we're working with the AOE and others to make sure that we put out plans that are implementable that can be done. The natural inclination by educators including myself is to try to meet and do everything and meet every standard and think that okay we're just because we're not in school anymore we can do everything that we're normally going to do and that's not the case it's not possible. We need to focus on some priorities in terms of instruction and academics we need to say okay what are the two or three most important priorities for this grade level maybe in this content area that we want to make sure kids have a better understanding of by the end of the year especially given that many kids will not have direct instruction from their teachers. I've also heard comments I know Ed mentioned today about full day of instruction other people it's not going to be realistic for kids to have a full day of instruction unless they've got somebody there providing the full day of instruction through them so I think we need to be careful about that. I really believe a student should not be required to be online more than a couple hours a day independently if there's ways to do things synchronistically where all the kids have access to the internet and those types of things then that's fine but we got to remember a lot of kids don't have access to the internet as I testified to you the other day and in many cases when they do have it they've got a college sibling at home is trying to use it they got parents that are working from home so it's really difficult to try to do this all online. Many of our elementary schools are really focusing on basically paper packets sending home books and things of that nature and making sure kids are reading trying to keep that fundamental level of reading going providing feedback contacting kids where they can but again it's not timely it's not like you're in the classroom. From our perception the equity of resources is becoming more apparent inequity of resources is becoming more apparent every day and those resources are not just technological tools but also human resources family resources so many families and children are already saying to us that you're overburdening us you're putting too much on us so we need to be mindful of this families are in different places as to how much they can they can handle what their own bandwidth is in terms of stress so I also think we need to make sure that we hold children harmless in terms of the future if they don't advance academically as much as they would have in a in a direct construction setting within a school we need to keep in mind that in some cases that's not gonna be anything the kid can do about it we want to be careful about not inadvertently punishing them for things they have no control over. We're all trying to do our best to provide students and families as much as we can without overloading them to me and to our organization the most important thing is getting through this crisis in a way that doesn't make things worse for students and families and that gives them some hope coming out on the other side of this. For us making sure kids are safe fed given some instructional opportunities and experiences and supports is the key to the principles in our association we can't pretend this business is usual but rather we need to provide again whatever supports we can try to help students improve make sure they don't regress at the same time keeping in mind to stress on the family and lastly as I mentioned earlier with this committee the other day and a couple hours ago with senate finance we need to look at cell service and broadband internet access as a fundamental requirement for all of the state in this global economy all people should have access in this day and age and for them not to have access as a huge equity barrier and issues that put many children and families at a huge fundamental disadvantage. The last thing I'll say is that several years ago I was a superintendent and I was the treasurer of the superintendents association that's why Jeff has money in his treasury now and we had a phone call from our president who was Brent Kaye at the time the Randolph superintendent and he was calling us from Peru on his cell phone in the middle of the Andes Mountains and we could hear him clean his day and we were in Montpelier and he was calling through to one of our cell phones and our cell phones weren't working as good in Montpelier Vermont. This is something that Vermont needs tackle if we're serious about having an opportunity equity-wise for everybody in our society and any questions? I have two questions that I want to start with one is do you feel like you've got access to AOE in helping to develop these guidelines? Yes they've been we had a meeting yesterday they were very responsive we'll see what the final outcome is probably probably coming out tomorrow I guess and I thought they were very responsive and Jeff and Jeff can speak to that as well but I think they're really trying hard to work with us we understand that the governor and the secretary and other key officials at the AOE had some situations where they had to turn things around in a hurry and that's part of crisis leadership but as we're talking about planning for the future and long-term and solidifying planning we need to make sure that we're part of that process and my understanding from AOE is that they have every intention of making sure that we are and we appreciate that. That's great my second one is our sister committee the technology energy and technology committee has reached out to me in regard to access to technology access to broadband. It would be really helpful I did mention this the other day I don't want to put busy work on the schools but I'm assuming that you have people that could probably fairly quickly identify where the gaps are in access to technology. It would be great if we could get that information but I'm also aware that I haven't developed a good question as to in relation to getting that data I'm sorry I'm thinking out loud as I'm going here which is never wise when you're online but in order for us to perhaps have some money to address this problem if we have an idea as to where the gaps are how it relates to learning I mean I saw in our local paper that at our local high school 95 to 99% of the kids in high school have access. Your principal did a survey of your students at CVU and there was 450 kids that responded to the questions and then I went and did the math you go more than 450 kids so just because I have the internet at home does not necessarily meet them all it's going to constantly respond my parents might be using the internet I might not have the connectivity I might not have a device and there's a lot lots of places in the state that aren't as fortunate in terms of access as as Heinsberg and that area would be secondly we got 80,000 kids it'd be awful hard to come up with a survey that would really accurately let us know I've talked to some principals who say we know that in our system 10% of the kids don't have access because they've done they've done little surveys but there's other systems that have no idea about and it also is fluid our families that are in the greatest poverty are the families that are most likely to have cell service cut off loser internet service move from one rental place to another be evicted so there's there's all those factors too I would say in Vermont probably the vast majority of kids have at least access to some internet but it's not high speed reliable and internet necessarily for all kids and the kids who need it the most often are the ones that can't get it I don't I don't have that I don't have the question or well organized at this point I'll be glad to put it out and see what we get for response yeah okay I mean I know that teacher that teachers like individual teachers are going to know as they're reaching out to their students they're going to know who's got access right representative James you have a question um just a no I'll save it for another time thanks representative Coopley no anybody else okay well stand by because you might be able to answer other questions that are coming up thank you thank you Tracy um I know that there's a question on the table from from Caleb but could you yeah let me just um yeah I'll give my update here so yeah for your executive director of the mark council special ed administrators and again it is good to see you all um thanks for having me here um again I'll keep this brief but I just want to give you a little bit more background since I haven't talked to you yet around this issue and then just describe some pieces some guidance that has come out this week and what we're focused on with regard to the CARES Act so um especially special education is always complex and now it's a major issue in this pandemic um we all know over the past few weeks things have moved quickly and we've been working hard to adjust to the idea that we need to support um all the children very differently and most notably in a way that's physically distant um and in addition special education within the context of this new educational paradigm creates significant issues in the context of the individuals with disabilities act IDEA um and so that's just really important to understand as we move forward um I was glad that Erin McGuire could talk to you on Friday um and as she told you um the ability to meet the timelines and formal compliance requirements of IDEA is a significant challenge um and it wasn't designed to address implementation of special education in the middle of a crisis um so while we can do IEP meetings on the phone or through a Zoom call it's far from ideal and evaluating students through a computer or over the phone is next to impossible um in many situations and at the same time we want special educators to be supporting families and connecting with children and not just stuck in that massive amount of IDEA paperwork um that is required so the AOE has been working with the field um to the extent that they're able to to adjust and flex the expectations um which we're really grateful but as um you know um there's a lot of work on the federal level to address these challenges because uh these are federal laws um so since the beginning of all of this I've been meeting with the Visbit legal team so those are um the three main special ed lawyers um first school districts um and then also Erin McGuire um who as you know is a VCSEA member and she's also currently our national organization's president um the case um and so she's been part of that and then our board president now is Mary Lundin from Montpelier Rocksbury so the the six of us have been meeting daily almost daily um and it's been extremely helpful because it helps us do the best thinking together and then there's consistent messaging to the field um which is really helpful because many of the school districts are trying to get advice from their their special ed attorneys at the same time and we want everything to be as consistent as possible and then our group's been bringing questions and concerns and recommendations to the AOE so that's been a really helpful communication and feedback and just a good thinking loop and um Jackie Kellerher who's the state director of special education has just been working so hard on all of this from the beginning obviously she's been very accessible and she and I have been in good contact and last week um we invited both Jackie and Claire O'Shaughnessy from the AOE legal team to join the six of us um for one of our group meetings and they're actually gonna join us tomorrow again and that's just really helpful to have the AOE um as part of those conversations and when we did meet last week um it resulted in an important piece of guidance that came out on Friday um which is um called IDEA requirements for placement and IE amendments because that was just a the pressing issue for the field um to understand what would be required so it this what came out is is really helpful and it states that services not placements may change in the context of the COVID-19 closure and it provides options for school districts to amend IEP service pages in partnerships with families so this was a real improvement from earlier guidance that had indicated that IEP teams would need to change the placement for every student on an IEP if school closure lasted longer than 10 days so basically this more helpful and updated guidance says the LA is not required to redraft the entire IEP which was a significant concern um for us but however upon the request of the parent the LA would be required to incorporate the amendments into a revised IEP so we felt like that made um the most sense and it really helped and was important for us to have dialogue with AOE around um why that needed to be um updated um and so the field my members that came out the end of the day Friday and I think everybody was just very you know at least happy to see those pieces and I think AOE has definitely been working very hard and wanting to collaborate and I feel like they've done a tremendous amount of work and of being very responsive but it's just hard and we're trying to really keep an eye on everything that's kind of coming out um for example just yesterday they released their COVID-19 financial guidance and that reflected the earlier thinking about the IEPs it wasn't updated to the guidance that we had received by the end of the day on Friday so we immediately um you know contacted Secretary French and he said he would be um looking at that and we really wanted to flag it it's important and have them update that to reflect what we heard on Friday so there's just so many pieces of this happening quickly um and again that's why it's been so helpful to have our regular meetings and be watching um watching everything um also I had not seen the new guidance on the special ed independent schools so I'll look at that and more will definitely be happening on that because um we're also very concerned about the special ed independent schools and I do know that many districts did agree to honor the contracts through April 6th and we were also waiting to see that guidance so we're going to return to this and so when we talk next week hopefully we'll um have more information on where that is but we definitely agree that they're very important partners and that we need to continue on the placements and all of that so um that's another thing that we're concerned about and we'll be working on um with regard to federal law so we've been working with our national organization again that Aaron's president of the council of administrators of special education case to ask the federal education department for limited flexibilities only in the specific circumstance so just COVID-19 so where we are is the CARES Act um as past requires uh the agency education agency secretary uh Betsy DeVos to write a report with information regarding flexibility that might be necessary during the COVID-19 pandemic and specifically the act states no later than 30 days after the date of enactment of this act the secretary shall prepare and submit a report to house and senate committees with recommendations on additional waivers under the individual with disabilities education act that the secretary believes are necessary to be enacted into law to provide limited flexibility to states and local education agencies that may that meet the needs of students during the emergency so the things that we're working on um a joint letter of the state um the national organization and the state chapters is asking for three areas of temporary and targeted flexibility so one the first is around timelines so that's the 60-day initial evaluation timeline annual IEP review timeline uh part C to part B transition timelines um so that's the first area where um second area addresses flexibly around procedures so IDEA requires several procedures that are meant to ensure collaboration occurs between um between parents and the local education agency during the pandemic we believe that that's still critical and very important um but it needs may need to look differently um and require more flexibility to ensure that children's needs are met so the procedural flexibility um really um has an emphasis on local education agencies and parents making good faith efforts um in light of the situation that we're in that's really the the main idea of that and then fiscal management um specifically IDEA requires local education agencies to verify the maintenance of financial efforts of LEEs and SCAs towards special education year to year so that's the MOE issue um in addition school districts are required to set aside IDEA funds to address disproportionality so we are recommending that we're recommending that MOE be waived for the 2019-20 school year and that unspent proportionate share dollars are carried over to the 2021 school year so those are the specific asks around fiscal management um that we've been concerned about so we're just uh we've been working on um this letter and documentation getting that um letter and request in today um so we'll know we've got this 30 day timeline is ticking um and it's a very fluid situation you know new ideas are showing up every day and we're working really hard to find ways to meet the needs of the children and comply with legal expectations and just support families to the greatest extent possible so that's the most recent update and again we'll know more next week and thank you MOE is within the current wheelhouse of the sec of Secretary DeVos I believe correct yep it is we and I know that we will be interested in hearing um any feedback from you related to the uh issue brought to us today about the private um yes definitely independent special needs schools yes schools for children with special needs yes um any questions for going back to Caleb yeah so I don't think I specifically answered your question that's the most up to date but why don't you want to say that one more time and I can yeah thank you I guess that um it sounded like you did answer it in the sense that it sounded like there was some helpful news on Friday and and that um you're seeing some of that flexibility but that I'm still hearing that there are probably uh waivers left the MOE issue uh or maybe things left to come from the from the federal government that are important I guess that I as we think about um funding and budgeting and potential borrowing of you know tying back to other conversation about the the school districts that don't have past budgets yet just kind of thinking about um trying to really understand where the liabilities kind of reside in in this moment and I know this special ed is a big one and so no I I feel updated but but um but keenly interested for sure just in these developments as I know we all choose it's it's it's a lot of work big stuff so yeah I'll be glad to be able to update you and again I'm we're working on this constantly thank you we will definitely want to be staying in touch with you even though we're well aware that most of the complexity is at the in the hands of the federal government so this brings us to the NEA Jeff and Colin or just Jeff um Fannin I believe don't forget to unmute no I did hit it double-clicked um hello and thank you for listening to me today and and remotely I hope you're all well and staying well so the update from Friday afternoon is not much I think is is both Jay and Tracy and Sue or all three Sue said um what is new is uh two things I think are important for you to uh think about or or we're thinking about I should say uh we are concerned about the finance the education finance piece and I know that you and ways and means are taking up a joint committee on Thursday I think it is um and I think that's important and we'd like to participate in that and when likely will um I think I mentioned it when I testified Friday afternoon to you folks but I know I testified in in ways and means on Friday morning about the possibility of extending the July one deadline of um the school board votes and and I know that Sue talked about uh the bill that just got passed and signed into law that didn't include that provision and maybe there's a a chance for that that idea to be included elsewhere worried about the 18 schools that still need to vote on a budget and uh in the middle of a health crisis it's hard to get everybody together to do that and and be uh in compliance with the governor's directives to stay apart so I think there are some responses necessary for the pandemic and how we get school communities to vote on their budgets the 18 that still need to do that um the thing that's probably most pressing for us to date from Friday is the continuity of learning plans the clp's the template that the agency of education put out on Saturday afternoon um led to a flurry of activity and monday and continues to this day um educators are feeling like they need more involvement more say more because they're the ones who are actually delivering the the education remotely so they're trying to get their voices heard uh and and with varying degrees of success so I think at the state level we've you know Dan we met with the group us met with Dan French yesterday that was good uh I think he acknowledged that the draft they put out on Saturday was just that a draft that they welcomed revisions uh we'll try to work on that um and I'll let Jeff Francis speak to what they've done um because I think it's important for you to hear that too so I applaud Jeff's work in that regard but it's still a um an effort for uh in crisis management you want to make decisions quickly but you also want to base those quick decisions on all the information possible and that means hearing from those at both ends the top and the bottom those are down in the trenches if you will and those at the top and I think that's where you've got to blend uh a good crisis management decision making so we're we're grateful that the secretary heard us yesterday uh there's still work to be done in that template the clp is going to be a big deal going forward given all of the internet access issues that you've heard about and know about larry o'connor by the way testified on friday to you folks larry's a teacher special ed teacher in middlebury and he talked about the school having only reached at that point 50 of the kids and um so I think that that is going to become bigger bigger and bigger issue uh one of equity and just share uh how do we get the kids how do we um you know meet them and uh work with them in any small ways I think we need lower our expectations um for providing true education this is not a substitute for in person education that takes place in a classroom this is very different this is about maintaining as best we can given that we're in a health crisis and that's the priority is to make sure that everybody's healthy and that's the goal not just for students but staff and the community at large really that's the goal um so those are the issues the internet access issue is is significant and um I think there are some monies in the the federal law that cares the law that just passed uh we're trying to sort out whether that's doable or usable today uh or soon thereafter and I think I heard this morning mark broaltz said something about four and a half million dollars was available for additional monies were available for internet connectivity issues so I think that's still being sorted out in the money uh world that's about it I'm happy to answer any questions um special ed will be an issue as Tracy pointed out it's it's it's it's thick with issues and equity issues and otherwise so uh working on that as well but happy to answer any questions that you might have so access to the aoe and helping to develop guidance do you feel that you have adequate access in helping to develop this guidance yes I think I do yesterday we had our first meeting with the group of us did um and I think that's good and we need to do that more we're going to meet again on Friday I think it is at three um and keep that group going I think it's important for Dan to hear from the wide group segment of groups that were there school board superintendents principals special ed directors um and that's that's good but he also needs to hear from us and and we did you know speak up and and I think he heard us and uh we're gonna have another conversation so it's ongoing I think that's good uh everybody's moving so quickly last week I think it's good to slow down and take a deep breath and understand we're in this for the long haul this is not going to be solved overnight I um reached out to a couple of my pre-k excuse me my kindergarten teacher friends and discovered that one of them that you are actually doing a training on um using the internet for kindergartners that julie long champ is is teaching uh I think it's tomorrow I think last I checked uh just chat with julie just an hour or so ago I think we're over 130 sign-ups and that's a k to two group and so the the interest is keen uh people are want they want to do well by these kids they want to figure out ways to use the internet or online resources for these kids but um and so they're desperate for information and that's what we're trying to provide them so we're you know in a span of I think 48 hours we've got 130 teachers of uh k through two focused and that's a pretty impressive we might be I think our committee um might be interested in hearing from someone in the k2 how things are going with k2 continuity of learning I think I'm frozen somebody's frozen but we'll find out and uh I'll see if I can't get you somebody who would be able to speak to that that'd be great um representative common thanks Jeff earlier this afternoon we were going over bills that we might try to move on if we're able to one of them was the sort of small fixes to the health care negotiation commission which I'm sure you it was a senate bill yes and I guess I'm just curious to know what level of importance you put on that bill from a timing point of view if we didn't get to it until next year um well I think some of the issues that were we're you know incredibly we just finished negotiating last uh November December got the arbitrator's decision uh and that's effective January 1 2021 it's not an effective but we'll be collectively back at the table in the spring of 2021 so a year from now and some of the changes that we were seeking and and you know the vsb speaks to this but you know largely it was a they had changes they wanted we had changes we wanted for the system if we enact it this year then you're you may be another whole cycle around where it's it's not doable so I think there is some some sense of urgency at least I think to enact that this year uh and and work on so that it can take effect for the next round of bargaining and not wait another round because incredibly that's it's we're already kind of thinking about already getting ready for next next round okay so I think thank you very much finally time is of the essence in some respects certainly thank you representative Austin and I would just also say that um we'll probably want to post the same question to you Sue Teglowski as to the importance of of that bill from your to your side and Serena um Jeff hi hello hi I'm just wondering um how the general public who may not have children in the schools are being informed the teachers are still working because I'm hearing some concerns that they think teachers are now off and thinking that maybe they can lower their budgets a bit um because of that I'm just wondering who how they either how they're informed or if they should be informed the teachers are teaching remotely now they're not in the schools but they are continuing to do planning and instruction well it's a it's a work in progress and so we're we we do think it's important to show the good work that support staff are doing feeding the the kids and supporting the kids in other ways as well as the teachers who are now developing remote learning practices so um I think you know even for the governor's orders the first week designed to just make touch base make sure kids were safe healthy and that's what we're doing and I think the next phase is actually you know pivoting to some level of education taking place and we will certainly get the word out folks are doing that work now I can't promise you that people will hear it but I know vpr had a nice story last week about the work that support staff are doing feeding children and bus drivers doing the work kitchen help and other folks helping in the kitchen to get that bag lunch is prepared and all that so I think it's starting to get word out once we get we're kind of establishing some moderate level of normalcy I wouldn't say it's normal but it's a sense of a new normal uh we'll start to get the word out that people are actually still working and they very much are um oh I know they are I just want everybody to know they are yeah it's a work in progress we are working on it okay thank you okay thank you um so we do you had a question for Jay do you want to ask that now or do you want to wait and get to the yeah it was just a follow-up again about uh meal delivery and child care like how is that getting a little bit more organized or you know doable uh so those are Jay right yes all right well thank you I'm just going to conclude and say thank you very much I do have to to go to another meeting but I'll stay sit around for a few minutes anyway and then then I'm going to probably have to check out but thank you very much for your work so in terms of uh in terms of meals I think in some places it's getting harder as you've got more people that are not able to come to the school because they might be in a certain age range or they're worried about their own children but in terms of the child care provisions that's been pretty much lifted by the governor so that's not really something that schools are having to struggle with the extent that they were previously it's more about the feeding children and stuff and I think from what I've heard schools are doing a real good job I know my wife left left for school the other morning at 5 30 to go make sandwiches and stuff for kids and then she followed the bus in her car as the bus I know we had a bus a bunch of bus routes ever doing that so as far as I know that the food part I think that's something that our systems have done a really good job with how it'll be down the road as people get more people get sick and stuff that's my worry right now I think that's going quite well okay thank you welcome thank you okay last on our list believe is the superintendent's association um we have yeah jeff frances and chelsea's online too um thank you all very very much jeff frances from the superintendent's association um you got really solid testimony last friday from the superintendents you had with you so I won't be redundant with that I could they could you know they talk about their experience far more effectively than I do um chair web asked about lessons learned and things that were priorities for us right now um one of the lessons that I've learned is that um and I talked with chair web about this the crisis really reveals the challenges and issues associated with any system and I think what we are seeing and I know that you've thought about this is that schools are play a huge role societally in terms of support for kids um and you hear about it in the in the work of your committee in terms of nutrition mental health all forms of supports but when you close the schools and you affect or see the work staff the work the the staff that serves schools um affected by a crisis unprecedented and I think all of our histories um you've come to really have an appreciation for how central the the role of school systems are um so in that context one of the things that I'm coming to understand better is that although we all entered the crisis together we enter from the positions that we're in so families that are more disadvantaged before the crisis continue with that as advantage through the crisis um I also have come to realize that the relationships that we have with all of our partners everyone with whom we work um become both more important I would say and also more stressed so I am going to talk about the continuity of learning plan that that Jeff Fanon spoke of directly um but before I do that so I would say that in terms of the work of the superintendents association we went through the first two weeks um March 13th the this past weekend and it was all crisis response and you've asked questions about meals and I think schools are doing a great job with meals you asked about childcare and the pressure is off the schools on childcare but I don't know that if that it's off in in terms of childcare for emergency service personnel in general so I've had two calls today from state officials about meetings later this week to talk about that I had a call from a reporter who wanted to know what schools were doing now that it's become voluntary as opposed to mandatory I don't have that information yet but but those things are indicative of the fact that the pressure of this crisis are going to stay with us even though we may become more accustomed to the routines to the extent that there are any that we're going to follow in terms of things like working with the legislature and so on and so forth um the other thing that I am thinking about is that we have a 10-week period where the goal of the education system is to do its absolute best in terms of educating the children of the state of Vermont in circumstances and conditions that um they don't have full familiarity with yet but even after that 10 weeks and who knows what's going to happen with regard to the health side of this we still need to be thinking about how school systems and their partners will prepare for children this summer and what the re-entry of school next year will look like and along those lines a huge issue that um that we need to be thinking about and I'm not sure that we are thinking about yet but we will is what ultimately will the funding applications look like so in a call preliminary to this one that we had yesterday um with representative Webb you know I brought up the fact that we still have matters like the waiting study um uh with us in terms of the importance of public policy and I made a point which I think is accurate and that is as the pressure of the health crisis begin to relax and and we all hope that it does other matters of importance are going to creep in and all of the kinds of issues that we were considering before the crisis are going to be right back with us so what does that look like that's just something that that I'm thinking about and I'm at your um in terms of the superintendent's association um we have a construct as an association which is reflective of principles that we think should get the forefront as we navigate this over the course of the next 10 weeks and into the future and that is first and foremost health and safety of children school communities and communities at large I think we need to be paying very close attention to equity uh even though we're going to have limited resources perhaps in the short term to respond to questions of equity we need to be paying attention to equity and applying all of our best abilities and resources to making sure that the kids that are more disadvantaged and the families that have more challenges get proportionate supports to the extent that we can provide them excuse me I think it's important that we work to maintain all of our working relationships so Jeff talked about the meeting that some of the associations had um with secretary french yesterday even though we're affectionately referred to as the v's we're not always on the same page and the sort of contests that we have um during a period of normalcy should be set aside to the extent that they can as we navigate this together um we recognize that remote learning does not exclusively mean online learning and even though there is a lot of attention to connectivity and utilization of technology as jnickles and others have pointed out we are not as a place in this state where that a reliance on um technology and uh online utilizations um can serve every for a multitude of reasons which could be an afternoon of testimony in and of itself um we need to pay an attention to um appropriate student growth um and accounting for that growth and measurement of that growth but it's in a context which is different than when children are in schools um and finally and I think this is really of tremendous importance irrespective of where each of us is as individuals with regard to how we're contending with this we cannot ever lose sight and I believe you all know I know you all know this of just how stressful this um this entire endeavor is and I think it's really a time for um compassion and thoughtfulness and a recognition that everybody's going to do the best we can but it's not going to be perfect um now very very briefly um along those lines Jeff Fanon and others talked about the continuity of learning plan and Jeff asked me to sort of tell the story from the superintendent's association and I'll be very brief um the agency is under a directive from the governor to get continuity of learning um plans in place ASAP um he sent a draft to the superintendents um on fri- excuse me on Saturday afternoon um superintendents looked at that and thought that from a contextual standpoint they could add value to it in terms of clarity and simplification um Chelsea Myers and I worked first Saturday evening and then on um Sunday with a work group of seven superintendents um at 10 o'clock on Monday morning we shipped a plan that we thought maintained all the um the essential effort of the agency's plan but did it in a manner that was also responsible but more streamlined and more consumable by the field um at one o'clock yesterday afternoon um the associations had a meeting with um secretary french we touched upon a bunch of issues including that that continuity of learning plan at 4 30 yesterday afternoon uh the superintendents who had been on that work work project to look at that continuity of learning plan had a meeting with secretary french that plan is under uh ongoing review with the agency today he's committed I think to have more uh another draft out um if not tomorrow uh soon and um that is the sort of pace that we need to move at and the attention to um working together that needs to be paid jeff fanon appropriately says you know we need to let everybody who's affected participate um and I agree with that but I also understand that the agency's under immense pressure um we're going to do the best we can with this but you asked jeff fanon if he thought that you know the the working relationships all around and with the agency are going well right now and I would I would answer the same way that he did which is generally yes so uh let me stop there thank you um chelsea did you want to add anything hi chelsea mayer's vsa for the record it's really nice to see you all um I think jeff covered most of it but I am here to help answer questions especially if they air more on the pedagogical um and practice side of things so they're questions I just I think one thing we definitely are seeing is the value of your various associations in helping us um respond to this this crisis the work that you're doing in the communities with the people that are actually implementing it's been pretty impressive and we appreciate being able to check in with you to actually get an idea about what's happening in our in our communities um peter conlon you had a question uh thanks I I also heard some comments from superintendent about the continuing of learning plan uh and which they found to be perhaps overly ambitious I'm just wondering jeff do you feel like the agency has heard that message I think jeff bandon also said today we need to lower expectations I guess do you see that as an as an outcome of this what as the final draft of that clp is finished yeah I think that um secretary french I obviously can speak for himself but we're we're you know we had a good meeting with him yesterday afternoon him to the point which centered on you know trying to um have a useful and legitimate continuity of learning plan but do it in a way that um reflects the understanding of some of those core aspects that were contending with um in the field of education and also with um attentiveness to the you know those conditions and factors that um are are challenging to respond to when all kids are going to school so we're going to know what the response and reaction is from the aoe there in charge of this but I believe that uh we're on a really good track to get something that people will feel is doable um and will allow schools to share how they're going to meet the goals for providing education over this time so you know that's a question really for him to answer not me but I'm very optimistic about it he is going the secretary is going to be speaking with us on Thursday morning so um we can save that that question um I am really uh pleased to hear however that the various associations have good contact um with the agency as we attempt to work through this really challenging time other questions we've heard so far in terms of things that are in our with hustlings that we can do pretty much have to do with um dealing with the funding that's coming coming forward um setting the tax rates dealing with uh the the timing um use of the ed fund going forward is there anything that you can think of that we can do uh to for you I think we're hearing loud and clear that the school districts are under tremendous stress and a lot of really cool ideas coming out of the citizen legislatures probably not what they're looking for nicely but nicely put nothing else that you can see at this point we can do other than really bearing witness and keeping track of where we're going in the future I think the equity issues that you bring up are are it staggering what we're we're seeing and how we may be using this crisis going forward um it is our opportunity right thanks representative web I think that those of us who testify this afternoon need to have our ears open when we see something that perhaps could be done to um assist and the response comes well that's in legislation we have to pick the phone up and call you right away because I'm not saying that legislation should be changed but if there's ever an issue that's going to require a legislative change and there should be consideration to whether that should happen or not then we ought to get the conversation started on that just as soon as we can I don't know of anything like that right this minute it do come up and when they do I think we ought to talk to you about it we have various bills that we reviewed this morning to and need to make some decisions um on what we're going to do what's considered um important to pass now what what can wait what's critical um and then prioritizing that as to what the use of our committee time so we would also appreciate your input um on those but but not right now anything else okay so we are on on Thursday morning at 10 um so far I know we've got the agency in correct Avery could you just let us know what what we have so far thank you also so much Avery for for managing this can we all just give a shout out to Avery for helping us through this thank you that that was really nice to see everyone's clapping hands um would you like us to go off youtube at this point yeah