 First on the agenda is to approve the agenda. If anybody had anything that they wanted to send or I think there's a thing. I think we've chosen the number of members. Second. Okay, all in favor? All right. And we'll move the public comment or inquiry. This is the point in the meeting if there's something that's not on the agenda for the evening. This is the time to comment or bring a topic up. Again, if you do want to bring something up, just stand up and say your name to the record. There's a lot of new faces here tonight. So say your name and then we'll be more happy to go through with it. Yes, Joe? Joe, so I just think it's a chronic change. When a 69-year-old senior and a 72-year-old senior has to go down by Rhonda Ketner and start shoveling dirt into that culvert hole because it's about this deep. People have bowed ties. And then when I called the town manager, told him that we, like, called down here told him that we fixed it through what we could in there. It was 45 minutes that they showed up. And all the stuff was happening again. Can't they put something in it for the state? Okay. That's a good question, Joe. Because you did. You came in and I had sent you to Alan. I knew when Alan was off and the guys were all set. And then Kelly called, said, Joe went up and put stuff in the hole where the culvert was. And then I think AJ, those guys were having to be right on your heels. It was just a coincidence because they were already, as I told you, come in to do that. But I don't know because people are hitting it so hard. I'm not sure what's going to stay. Oh, I know. Yeah. I know. And you've seen it. We've got signs. It's closed. We've made sure that on Google Maps, on Map Plus, that it's closed so people are using the detour. And I don't know. I drove down there myself last week. And because you live on it, I was up there while I saw you. You come around and you go slow enough, but you're right. People keep hammering it. So what can we put in there? It's going to get paid either the first week or the second week after Labor Day. But I'm not sure. It's going to be five months. I know. Six months. I've been going to the South Oregon vessel. Stafford's picking up cars because people, there are things to drive on there because the road is closed. I'm trying to keep my head above wood and I'm going from town to town to town to town. Yeah. You know, if you want to put a sign up at the bottom that says you're open for business, Joe, that's totally no problem. Let me talk to Alan and see. I wonder if we could put some hot cats or cold cats. We could do something in there for temporary. I'll talk to him tomorrow, Joe. All right. And thank you for going up there, Joe. And we will have, a little bit later, we'll go through the FEMA project updates as well as the Camp Work isn't a FEMA project, but it's a federal highway project. It's a slightly different, but we give you the update on that as well. You know, it's been kind of a longer process than we would like with everything that transpired this spring on what we can do and what we have to wait to do. And I appreciate that everybody's been relatively patient and at times, you know, you're more than welcome to not be patient because it hasn't been a burden for some time. And I keep hearing over in Rochester that they're going to keep their section closed down until next year. So it's kind of been a long process, but we'll go through an update on some of the projects and what we're doing and what we think some of these will be closing out when we're starting. So any other public comment or inquiry? I'm Laura Carras and I'm the resident of the Pentecostal Road. And I see on the agenda an R-W-T-D size of the bridge shoulders on the aluminum. And I'd like to request that we've included in that we can have updates on the discussion about McIntosh Hill and the Holbrook Fabric sale. Yeah, so we'll be going through that stuff. We call it the FEMA update, but, you know, we have awarded a contractor, a contractor who happens to be sitting in this room. And we'll be getting to those pieces here soon. So anybody else? Public comment? Okay, seeing none. We'll move on to the first appointment. So currently we've been in the discussion with the Nell Bridge, which was, you know, pretty much completely destroyed during the spring flooding event, unfortunately. And we, for kind of one or two sessions now, at least we've been talking about our options with the bridge, which, you know, at first was just, you know, we're going to get a temporary bridge and put the bridge in, and then see if it's to rebuild the bridge. And then we quickly found out that it wasn't going to quite work out the way we had envisioned it. The crisis had come in far more. In some cases the state wants to see the bridge re-engineered bigger. The history on the bridge is that it's taken a lot of damage over a long period of time. So it's not the first time this has happened. So we're in the process right now and just kind of just wondering what are all of our options. We also do have a lot of time-sensitive options. You know, we thought the temporary bridge would be the time-sensitive, you know, that we did in here, and then we can figure out to rebuild the temporary end where we do and try to get in with the winner. You know, how it is here in Vermont when the winner closes in and kind of accolades this spring again. So our appointment this evening was the first one. Dorothy, I'll let you... You're more than welcome. You know, speaking is not your thing. You're more than welcome to sit and talk. I would just say just try it. Be as loud as you can so that we can hear you and we'll try it in return. I'm Dorothy Canella, and I'm here because we have a bridge in Gilead. The issue that we have is not so much that we have a bridge in Gilead. The problem is that there was a flash flood on April 15, and we understand and we've really tried very hard to be citizens of Beppel and of Gilead Brook. And in doing that, when it happened, I mean, my father died in May of last year and my mother died in June of this year. Nobody was technically living in the house at the time. We were well aware that people like the Delagatos are living here and need to get over the bridge. So what the family said is we're going to leave the town alone. They'll do the right thing. Well, a month later, nobody had touched the bridge. Nobody had done anything to repair any of the bridge. And part of me was like, well, that's okay, but actually it isn't because FEMA gives money to the town, and yes, the town was paid 12% of it, but for the first chunk of money there, you're allowed to, and we do up to 70 hours of kind of remediation work quick and right off the bat, like you did with Delagatos, like you did with the Mitchell Road Bridge. But you didn't do that for the Pamela Bridge. So that in and of itself has created part of the issue that we got because that work wasn't done then. You no longer can get that work done. So now what we need to do is manage that issue. So from what we can tell and in talking to the Vermont Department of Transportation and from talking to the environmental, the natural resources group, what they're saying is they're willing to pay to have a temporary bridge. It's called a maybe bridge, but maybe a lot of people know of it as a Bailey Bridge. You put in a Bailey Bridge. The bridge that's at the house now is like 60 to 65 feet, and they would do 100 feet because they said the way you do that is you take the amount washed out and add some and put it in. It's my understanding as of this afternoon they have already said they would pay for the Bailey Bridge. They would pay for everything that needs to be done except for 12.5%. And when I talked to Chris Thump, who's your liaison with the Vermont Department of Transportation, he thought that the bid should have come in around 100,000. It came in at 3.30 because it was the middle of bridge building season. My father would want me to know that. It was put out to bid on July 15th and needed to be done August 16th. It is a pretty quick job, but they've already got their cranes everywhere else so they couldn't do it. So the family would like to ask that before we do any more major decisions and big decisions for the town and for the valley that you slow down, put it out for bid to just put in a temporary bridge. That would cost the town something in the range of 12,000 dollars. No. And why are you saying that? Because, well, the original bid was exactly as you're saying, which we put out to bid, and it came in at 331,000 because we were told by the state, which is that we put in the 100 foot, maybe, bridge. We run it for 100 bucks a month just like you and I talked about, but what, um, and they did the engineering, which was night. And they were going to oversee the installation of the temporary, but they also wanted us to take out the pier close to, as you say, to the mailbox and to take out the deck itself. So, um, I, we had expected that I think this is what Chris found. It told you maybe more like 125,000 not 331,000. So I think it's going to cost more than 12,000 dollars to get someone to install, to, to remove the deck, remove the pier closest to the mailbox and they stopped to put in either blocks or horns or something inside. No, what he said today was it would be 70,000th of a bridge and 30,000th of a road bridge. Okay, I thought you said 12,000 or something. Yeah, that's the town's, oh, the town's pay, which is 12%. If we can get the, yeah, absolutely, if we can get the bid in it, yeah. Okay. So that's what we were referring to. Yeah. And then actually when I talked to, um, Jeremy Borden and, and when I talked to Chris Hump, they both said the, there's concrete in the work right now. Yeah. And that's all, that's all weird. And it's there to prevent scouring, but they put it on the downstream side and like the upstream side too. Yeah. So the, even the guy I talked to with natural resources said, you know, I guess it probably should have done it both. So he was talking today that you could take the dead end, which is a rather large item right now, and drop that in the brook, and you don't have to pour concrete anymore. You've now got it. So if you take that dead, the end you take the abutment and stand it up over here so it's on the wall, so that when, as we all know, when the brook comes down, it goes this way. Yeah. If you have that there, I mean, this is all just part of like trying to make it work. Right. It's interesting because he has never said that we could put the death in the river as just scouring. He didn't say that one. When he and I, he said, one of the problems is that he can't find, and I can't find, and I've been looking pretty hard to find any work that was done when the bridge was put in in 2002 to see what they have done as a research for the 100 year flood aspect. No, I can't find that either. And now they're saying you can't use that, by the way, too. Anything after Irene or soon after Irene is kind of aligned basically because it was a 100 year flood, they're saying you have to do a new step. But all of that will be covered if you go the way it is suggested. Which is what we put out to this. Yeah, but the idea that you've now, the route that you've been going down now is, well, what if we repair the current bridge? FEMA's not going to pay you for that because they didn't approve of that. So the talent is going to put themselves on a very large hook if they go down that route and, quote, fix the old bridge because that's not an approved FEMA method. And you don't find out about that until two years down, three years down the road when you get their final analysis and they ensure that you've gone through the codes and standards and what's been approved. No, it's more for to try to make it the temporary at least to get you access to the proper... But the town can't afford to pay. You know, I mean, the town can't afford to pay $100,000 for that solution. No, not get reimbursed. So I would think you wouldn't want to go down that route. No, probably not. Do you know how many times has the bridge been replaced just in your... You were telling me a story about this. It hasn't been replaced. In 2002, they put in a new bridge. Gary, why did we put in a new bridge? Because the I-beams were gone, right? So the I-beams were gone. You know, a number of times, Canelo engineer had replaced the I-beams and the town supplied the lumber and the family put the I-beams in and put the lumber in. So the bridge never really went out. I wasn't sure because I knew now in 2011, mom and dad were on the other side of the bridge for a week. It didn't go out though. It didn't go out. It washed out though. And it took a week to get the backfill back. And that was the only time. So a couple of things I just wanted to catch up with a little bit is, so initially the reason why we went to bed in the time frames that we we did is because the family wanted to see something in place by the end of August from what I remember. Well I think the family said we needed to make sure we had something for them. So that's why we went there. And what we said was winter can be a moving target, shall we say. And you know, we can't do certain work. And then when the bids came in, the government didn't want to participate in the price of the bids that came in. So this wasn't a necessarily kind of thoughtful thing. This was a state federal government famous for telling you one thing, meaning that you need something else and doing another thing. So it wasn't the case of bids came in three times more and we said we didn't want to do it. They said it's too expensive and we wanted to do it. We all agree with it. Right now, what we're doing is we want to figure out a solution. Not just for your issue but for a lot of issues. Obviously these events that we keep having and so there's a lot of options to explore from what you were talking about. Your options, there's other options. So I think that's kind of where we're at right now. I don't think anybody's made up their mind what we're going to do. Putting all the options out there. Tonight wasn't the night to say we're going to throw out that road and be done with it. We're trying to figure out what is best for the town at this point. There were studies that were done after Irene and coincidentally it happened to get a publication that finished it from Lake Champlain and they sent it out and called it a copy. Maybe it was better than a copy. So they came up with different steps of after flooding how you would be built and what you should be looking for. One thing that is we wouldn't be doing our job with the town we did explore all of our options. We just rushed into one option that just wouldn't be fair to everybody. So one option that has come up and this kind of goes along with last year the river corridor that came down from the state of Lamont the river keep washing out certain sections should really be rebuilding in those sections again. So that's kind of where this came into it was consider whether we really need to rebuild anything at all but then that kind of opens up another thing of if we decide not to build anything that went to your property tell me other properties or like your property. So that's kind of looking around in the town to see how many other single use properties that we have that town was bridged to. So that's kind of the process that's about as far as we've gotten in this process today. Right and all the statue and then Dorothy we've been talking which is great she's been really helpful with the history and trying to figure it out. That's bridge which is what they call Mitchell Bridge to your camp. So Mitchell Bridge, Delgado, Pinello seem to be their bridges to one home and that was what the select work asked was because what Chris is saying is that obviously one of the options for the select work is to throw up the road so that way the taxpayers in Bethel aren't on hook for the ERAF which is the twelve and a half percent of whatever the cost is to rebuild the bridge or whether it's Jeff's or Delgado's or Christine Dorothy's or and we were also trying to Dorothy and I have been talking also trying to work with the state is their way to because the process for them is a temporary bridge engineering and a permanent bridge is their way we also kind of looked at trying to engineer the permanent bridge so instead of putting a temporary and then a permanent we just did like a one shot deal and got the engineered permanent bridge in place to avoid the step of the cost of installing first the temporary bridge but that's not going to work either. So if we have been talking to and Dorothy's been great help talking to Beatrance and Jaren and we're trying to find the best solution to go. So I guess my concern is and I think people of Gilead and people of Bethlehem need to be concerned that if the board select me considers well we'll just throw up those roads well maybe now we're sort of going to throw up the roads where there's two houses. You know I mean okay how many bridges are affected then and that just doesn't seem like the right way for a community to run and deal with it. It just doesn't seem like we could also save money by not putting salt on the road this way. I mean you know it's just it doesn't seem to me the right kind of community sense and I respect that as a board you have a volunteer board and you're doing you're here to try and do your job and it can't be destroyed. There's so many different variables and you want to do what's right for you in your case but it also reflects on other properties too so there's a lot of different pieces moving pieces apart. So we're not saying we're definitely doing anything right now we're just investigating the possibilities and unfortunately it's taken certain amount of time and you look at that bridge every day you know it's there every day we're trying to do the best we can to gather the information But I guess to me putting in a hundred foot maybe bridge that Jaren Borg said I've already approved it, I've already said I would do it you don't have to do a hydraulic setting all you need to do is drop in and Chris Bonfield from the Vermont Department of Transportation said he figured it would probably commit it a hundred dollars. Yes we have to put it out to bid but it seems like that's a pretty straightforward get it done solution for us we had a ton of people come to the pre-bid meeting and so we thought we were golden so if you do it again in October we might and do it again or put it out sooner if that's what the board wants me to do I will definitely put it out sooner or put it out right away doing the same we have the process done and have the RFP I have everything and so yeah it was surprising that that when we saw and then since then they've agreed to drop that price by 75,000 but that's still too high so if that's what the board wants I can put that thing out to bid tomorrow again because you're right and we already have Hoby Gates from the state he's already set to oversee the installation he's so we're you know we we could if that's what the board wants I could put it back out tomorrow you know again anybody has made up their mind but you know we just have to thoroughly go through watch behind you know it may only be 12,000 or maybe 25,000 short term for us to fix access to that bridge but you know we're talking about a bridge and it's not just your property but you know if you have a bridge that's a 50 foot span bridge or 60 foot span bridge and you see all the erosion that's going on in that stream then you know what's to say that spring time that happens again and now it has to be a 120 foot bridge or 140 foot bridge you know where does it go but that's kind of the thinking behind some of these you know and again the state that puts out these that you know encourages communities that sometimes there are times where you don't rebuild the bridge or you don't do it because the stream is going to consume it again so not saying that that's what we've decided to do but it's just one of many options like Paul was saying that right now we're just kind of thinking through because you know it is easier to swallow obviously if there was 10 new fillers on them right because if you spend 25,000 dollars just to buy amongst 10 people 25,000 dollars that's divided amongst one person with one access it's tough well I think you can look at it that way please everyone I'm not doing this tomorrow that's 54 acres back in 10 years 20 years the 14 people contributing to the tax base of occupancy but you know it just seems you need to think through the whole because it's not and the more people that look into this the more information you've got look at how much information she's got my name is Lisa Delegate and I just want to say that the Delegate for youth has always stood it's just the turn how many you've cited that goes so I feel like if we could figure out any kind of ways to have the water have the channel to go through maybe we could fix that solution when I first when I first moved there in 92 I had to drive over up and back 5 times beside the road that goes along the bridge and now I'm a document I'm a document I mean literally so we just we thought it thinking that it was a town road and otherwise we wouldn't have purchased it so I'm just hoping that if that was never going to happen I would have been warned by more people than just that is what's even being discussed so that we could get input or I could help find solutions because I'm kind of like her I look at it as a game that needs to be solved or one kind of say about it yeah Carl Russell so I think that I want to clarify a few things number one it's not a bridge to a residence it's a town road to a resident and that's what I think needs to be evaluated clearly you're looking at the bridge but you have to address the issue of the town roads and private residences and Dorothy's point about where it goes and what's on the other side and what the value of having a town road in an area is a big issue and you know that we've talked about that before in this town why we came and of course several of these are actually third class roads not fourth class roads so you're getting tax money the other issue is that it's not erosion under the Penelope Bridge this is the way the entire village road was managed that the scour that Dorothy referred to was not from upstream it was actually from downstream from over harvests and material close to Irene and I actually photographed from two years ago of that above that below their bridge the scour plate fully exposed on the downhill side and that I can almost guarantee that it didn't that the water removed the soil from underneath that plate and it tipped and that's why it washed out the way it did right now so you can't necessarily I mean just throw on one more thing into the many that you're considering but the bottom line is it's not that bridge and it's not the issues at that bridge it's the rip wrapping upstream from that it's the efforts to keep the stream under the Sawyer Bridge up on the Hillier Brook Road this is a big issue and it's not going to go away just because you decide you want to fund or not fund that particular bridge so I mean it's not as bigger than you're going to solve right here but I think if you're going to talk about many issues I think it's important that you put it into the context and within that context fixing the bridge so the family can get access to their property to make I bet now and I've heard you speak that you were thinking about the long term considerations and it does seem to me as if these three properties and probably more if you continue this consideration the tax value will drop considerably and I'm not sure that Bethel can afford to lose those taxes or the access and therefore maintenance to those properties that are beyond the bridge thank you Chris Ford is from Hillier Brook Road I don't think that throwing up roads whether they're in class 3 or 4 is generally a good idea the only thing we can say in some certain way is that it's going to increase most likely over time as Dorothy said there's likely more residents more taxpayers and this would cause a drastic reduction in value of people's property and each one of these roads are different there are some specifics that need to be considered the one that I'm most willing to run because the right way to process our property is that in that case if the town were to just abandon right away the Delgato's would have no frontage on any public road would have no legal access to their residents at all to throw that out so that's a pretty important consideration now certainly neighbors would work together with a full solution but it would be very costly to put them in a pickle and I think all the nuances of the law and of the situations in this particular case would have access to other private land before it gets to their property and it's similar to with the road that passes by in Gilmour's camp there's other private landowners up on there that may want to do something else with their property down the road with those options so I just hope that everyone's looked at it appears it's a slow process in terms of the fact that these solutions these inter-solutions probably shouldn't proceed with for now those more current decisions I just wanted to clarify one thing and again there's so many options I feel from being we're living in the town in 13 years that there's a lot of times in the past when we turn rush into judgment decisions it's good to be able to sit back and figure out what are our options what is the best option for the town do we invest in certain roads or bridges or do we not and what is in the best interest for the taxpayers in the town regardless of who's resident it just so happens to be Dorothy's at this point here and I think well two things one thing that we were trying to do was to get people to come to the meeting just like this so it's good to have that valuable feedback back from the public because if we make a decision to go forward with putting an investment into that bridge then we all have to understand as a community that we all have a small stake in this thing so not just the select board makes a decision then we go spend a bunch of money and then everybody's going why about taxes so it's really good that we have community out here and it seems to be a rather positive motion there's a lot of volume here the second thing too is the throw it up or whatever option that they call it that wouldn't be that you wouldn't have necessarily access to your property what that would mean is that you now have responsibility for the access to that property so it's a little different you don't know what it would be left on an island well I think it's better for me to go to the house right in fairness to us if we were going to talk about all the options and if throw it up option is an option which it is for this piece of property then it wouldn't be fair if we didn't say well how many other people are in the same circumstance so we did some information that found that there was two others so but that meant if we did decide to do one maybe we would do the other two or maybe we wouldn't do any of them without doing another one I guess my problem with some of the logic that I'm hearing is that because my parents happened to die at just a long time out of which is the one we're discussing throw it up well my logic I can tell you my logic comes from a study from the state of Vermont that I just had to get in the mail this past weekend that came from well it started when this whole thing started some of this had started from the river corridor system just like exactly what Carl was saying the more that we try to manage the system the more disruptive the system can be in the channel of the water so we have to be careful because the more that we do armor banks the more disruptive that downstream can end up being and that was kind of we went through the bylaws there Carl was free and that was the state through the whole river corridor thing at that time and we put a lot of time into that but because the more that we do try to make it man made the more impacts can happen down the road so it was kind of we just just and then out of the studies that came from Irene it was different options of how should you how should you reconstruct the roads how can you do preventative maintenance for going forward on roads how can you better protect lakes and then there's the piece that they also put in there is when do you consider not to do those are just all options that came out of that if you're constantly not saying your case but if you're constantly rebuilding something at some point does it make sense to keep rebuilding it so I think we I like that I really enjoyed the turnout and the feedback again this was just one option and there could be 10 options on the table and most people are going to take the one that's most fearful and think that's going to happen and it doesn't necessarily mean that regardless of who lives in the house it was it's an option and that was unfortunate to it wasn't it certainly was I didn't have the pleasure of meeting your parents I just built your dad once on the phone we had a great conversation but none of us here made the decision not to fix the bridge at the time so that obviously was well we weren't you know I made the decision at the time because Jeff would and to try to figure out what we're going to do and I think Delgado is a backfill right away I think Jeff would know better than I did but but anyways but yeah but if you in fact like you did on the Mitchell bridge and the Delgado actually Jeff did you do your own yeah but Pinellas would have done that years ago that's what we used to do so Delgado's if you would backfill Pinellas right afterwards the bridge wouldn't be slanted in doing what it's doing now it's exactly right yeah but I know but it's because my parents weren't there so you were yeah I don't know I didn't make the decision I don't know but it's unfortunate but you're the head of Highway Department who made that decision then the town manager at the time well I won't say 100% on that either I I was up on day one I took a tour up there looked at your bridge and the Delgado bridge because actually that I think had just got fill on it that was one of the first things and um and I was up there with one of the construction engineers for the state and then after we had a little bit more information they were very hesitant with allowing us to go into the stream to do anything with your bridge because a couple of things at that point they hadn't determined that they felt that there was some structural issues with the bridge so that if you backfill the bridge and built in the approaches that the bridge itself is not sound now I can't say 100% because I did not spend all my time doing it but on the business that I had that was what came up because Jeff had already backfilled the other bridge but the state guy I can't remember his name that was out there had strongly suggested that until we get some way to come out and take a look at the bridge that they didn't want us to put access to that bridge because they didn't know if the bridge was going to be sound and then a short period of time later they deemed that there was some deficiencies with that bridge and they didn't want us to do that work so I wouldn't you know it's so easy we can blame the person that's not here but I can tell you that the state of Lawn had a hand in that of not necessarily wanting us to do that but on that I didn't know I've never heard this information either but it was a day off yeah the thing we did at times it's so important if there was people living there we would have treated this completely different you know if her parents were still alive we wouldn't have said you gotta move out there's nothing we can do for six months and I completely understand what you're coming from but you also have to understand that we would hit in multiple, multiple areas of this town at that time we have to prioritize first, second, third we can't do it all at the same time it's just like with the projects that Jeff's doing and the other contractors right now I mean there were other there were other homes at that time that were intact that didn't have anybody in them and you're absolutely right had somebody been maybe physically living in the house it would have been a higher priority but since there wasn't the priorities then shift to others at that time so I was supposed to be living there I just want to be 100% there I was just having a soul yet to be in my two-year-old and still be stuck there right? because you didn't make a decision we don't have to give an argument about this we really don't I understand you that why people would be a little upset that you would tell them that you're not here considering not granting access to a road because there were people living in the toilet so I understand that it would be maybe second on the list but you didn't even try to contact us there was no kind of communication you didn't even try you know that since day one since day one after the flood that bridge was looked at and the process had started but as a state a decision wouldn't have made or should I have been living there it's just a ridiculous assumption but what I'm saying is even if you were living there on day one the process did start the process did start on day one moves on the ground the thing is there were no viable options on day one to that house okay so we're going to so we are going to somewhat roll rocks, blame, whatever you want to call it the former town manager I can only use the words did not honestly represent himself because he told me it was going out for bid the Monday after he left and when I called Terence no he told me to call Friday to find out what the big what the documents looked like yeah we never even met in the state so that's one of the problems so one of the problems is that I was trying as the family did not all call you we did one representative because we were trying not to be hired so one representative was contacting me I didn't even get the truth or what if I pushed it higher and it's unfortunate and it wouldn't have happened to you so I think we're done discussing it for now but I do think it's very important that in town we direct with everyone in Gilly and Brook that if you're making a plan and you're thinking about something you need to be sure we all know that and you know there were butters so the lands and all of us need to be made aware of what the term is saying and unfortunately you don't physically live in town now but I feel I should be told I can tell you that the 100% direction of which the sport was and probably still is leaning is to put the temporary bridge the only thing that stood in our way is the government who you're talking to that says everything's good they're the ones that said we're not here to participate they came at the recently they've changed their mind yes recently now we've got to go through the process but up up until this whole thing the reason why it took so long to get it out of bid is because the state had to weigh in on it they had to bring in all the river engineers and everybody else that takes lots of time and then when we finally went to bid the bid came in three times higher and then they said we'll weigh in we're not this big so that would have been 15 cents that's where we're at right now so maybe what we could do is tomorrow I could put it all back out to bid this life board has the right to not accept any of the bids but at least if I put it out to bid tomorrow when we have all the documentation we could put it all back out to bid tomorrow and see what realistic you know prices like Dorothy is saying would come in at with a longer construction time so obviously Dorothy had luck right on and she had filled the fuel tank in like March or April actually I need to check on that for us if she thought that she had luck it wasn't because I paid for it and don't get me wrong just the detailing you know this has been a great discussion I mean this is let me just say there's probably 40 more people here tonight than there are usually here it's really nice to see the feedback coming from the community on making these decisions because it's good for a community to make these decisions but other than just four people or five people on the board because it shows that there is buy-in from the community if you want to do this this is what we'd like to do and I know what I try to do on this board is I don't come into this with my own agenda this is what I want I usually listen to people that's what we try to answer with the community so I think it's good with the newer information that we've just recently gotten from the state there's no tiring going out to bid on a temporary bridge that may end up being a permanent bridge or whatever that ends up being you need to be kind of sensitive about that to make it a permanent bridge you can only use a temporary bridge for 24 months now later months got some bridges out that have been in there for 20 years this is me I don't want you to get stuck with the full cost because you didn't like it so what do you think is a reasonable stretch for me to put the bid if we put it back out for any construction take but I think to ask I don't want it tomorrow morning I don't want to be realistic to get a decent bid and have us get in there before snow flies and not two weeks after snow flies when does snow fly do you see it maybe how long does it take to put a bridge in do you have an estimate of impressors he thought the whole thing could actually be in and less than a week because it depends and I think Jeff would probably chime in on this he was at the pre bid because they're saying you could either pour piers or you could use blocks to put it in and I mean I think that the state after speaking to Hobie Gates who you saw to I think Jeff and Chris as they were thinking the whole thing maybe not the approaches but definitely the bridge itself over the piers should be in in a week now I'm not sure if that's the approaches or doing the drive after but certainly the bridge itself so he seemed to think they could be in and out in two weeks he seemed to think in and out in two weeks was his thing so then we should put it back out a bit tomorrow we have everything and put a longer date on and I'll talk to FEMA the FEMA rep she's coming back on Thursday too because that's really good information about clarifying the time frame on the temporary bridge so I made no ask so I gave you some double check with Jessica she's coming back on Thursday and I'll let you know so we'll look it out we'll see who? what you're calling the Delgado bridge I would have to look at the map to see if there was any work to be done we had two phases either some was contract work and some the road cruise going to do but I would have to look at the map at least it has a does it have a stake? yeah but then it is probably part of the bid package and yes it's already been awarded actually so it'll be I think the end date on that is maybe the middle of September I think it's the middle of September 9.15 until I think is the finish on that so yeah that was if it's the stake anything outside the stake the road cruise all the information will there be an update on this next letter? yes we won't have the bids back yet but it'll be the meeting out well I think my guess is the board will wait now until they see what the bid price, what the bid is I guess I'm not sure again it's not always just so easy for us to make a decision the stake has to weigh in as well so the stake has weighed in now is it two weeks we have to wait for the bids? yeah we'll probably give them a couple of weeks probably if I post it tomorrow we usually try to give contractors a good 10 to 12 days before they can put it back but they should be pros at it because if they say one's come they've already seen all the documents but that's probably two weeks and I'll email you tomorrow and tell you what the bids are absolutely thank you so much for coming anything further on in the discussion anybody that hasn't had a chance to speak so this is well my name's going to go a lot of thought I don't know if anybody had a road but anyways I just want to say the water, the trees the road is a bridge you wouldn't believe it after a flood if it's cats and solid and no water no place to go for a round so I just want to bring that up everybody out here can do up trees move over water here that kind of stuff but I've been there a good day, I've seen it and I know what causes the whole problem it's the trees that plug up the bridge and then when they're just washing the ground and you hear the big rocks smashing in the middle of the night you know you've washed the bridge are these trees your talking about are they in the brook itself or are they on the sides are we walking down from you know it's the landslides that are coming in a large chunk will come in and then they all just trying to figure out where the trees are at because if the trees are on the banks or up against the structure then we have the right to remove those if the trees in the brook they're not allowed to go on the brook because I think Dorsey made a good observation about actually Jeff's bridge she said when she looked down there's a bunch of trees and stuff in the water she said we get another storm and she think Jeff's just going out but she said she'd seen a bunch of trees in the water and now that you have some good contacts at the State Dorothy bring up the tree removal in the brook yeah that's right because everybody here is absolutely right because all the debris that's in there it's not just trees it's stone, silt, and piles up and it just sits in there and then the next storm it flows down plugs up the next folder flows out the next bridge, right? but that's a perfect example of they won't let us go into or a contractor go into the brook you know after I read in Michael's Iliad's brook so they actually paid the local contractor to go all the way back up the brook putting the fish structure back in you say that fish structure is now I mean that it was such a waste of money and it's the state that we're talking about again not us I got $300,000 that's a good point it's $300,000 that they paid to have fish structure put back in Iliad but we're talking about $12,000 on our account that's amazing they now give us permits to put refract and tell them to do it I'm not sure why I don't want to remind everybody what we do I'm Satchin and I also live on Iliad brook and those of us with property on the other side are right in the way across those bridges it'll be great I don't even know what's legally required but for us to be notified of any kind of process in the system maybe we're all kind of here one or two people really getting fired up about this and doing a lot of organization it seems like a challenging and irresponsible thing in contact with us about those issues that are coming down the pipeline we would have been if they had decided that they were going to make there's a very specific and long state process for us so if that was going to happen for sure that is exactly what would have happened so there's a whole process for it to be notified we're on the Facebook page the website we publish them every week every Friday before meeting so anyone can look at it absolutely if they were going to do something for certain there's a very process in which yes you'd certainly absolutely positively would have been notified and you'd do an on-site meeting and the whole thing I can't imagine being notified of being told like oh we made a decision what's going to happen I guess what I'm asking is could we be more included in this process maybe options and decisions it seems like this should be the last report and my second question was just I don't know if it's just like what I understand and I don't understand what happens to the taxpayers whose property are attacked by this if a decision like this goes down is there compensation for people who own property as a very effective I think what you would see is just what someone had said earlier is that you know the value of the property the listers would it would affect the grant list because the value of the property without the access would drop so the taxes would drop so you're right I'm talking about the individual people who own the property compensation no there would be no compensation just unfortunately the value of the property would drop again a few of you in the audience are getting way ahead the last thing we want to do is disturb residents or shut some down again it's all about the grant list if we decide not to put a bridge on the grant list goes down we lose the property of two or three or four or five however it is so it's a double negative if you lose one person's tax money but you also the grant list goes down so I mean where it's foreign options I think it got a little carried away a little bit tonight on that but it's just one well I can tell you it's just one of many options that we're looking at and there's been recent information from the state that has changed some of those things and believe it or not it was the state that said hey how about throwing it up and I mean that needs to come to the state because so you know it's just an option it's not something that carried out every way so yeah I'm right now I find it offensive when you say that you think people got a little carried away when you stand up from a wave of your brochure from the state and say I've read this girl but I know what I think I shouldn't know not definitely what you should do but what an option is I find that offensive we're overreacting I think that's underestimating the situation I'd just like to make a request that we make the agenda item under FEMA updates into the conversation around other roads on Millie and while we have all of the community here so that we can have that discussion with the we can definitely talk about other roads that are around the FEMA project that's fine good so if we can talk about what we're going to do so so I guess I just want to throw it out there so we can move on so would be in order to do your good civic duty you have to look at all options and options at times are not going to be favorable options but if we weren't looking at all options before we wouldn't be doing our job it wouldn't be fair to anybody if we didn't explore all options it's not that it just seems like that there's some in the audience that seem to be negative towards well we're not always made up our mind our mind is to put a bridge in there until the state didn't want to participate in it because it was too expensive so now we're just looking at other options that's all we're not here to take away roads of bridges we're doing our civic duty by looking into other options that we should be exploring but in this case we have many options let's move along you want to just talk about and back and touch anybody have opposed to moving the FEMA step up Alan you're okay taking back two more minutes alright so we can so originally the FEMA update was really just to kind of go through that we've had it on a couple of meeting agendas so far just where we had which at the last meeting we had four five contracts that had been awarded so we are I apologize for them just worked on and got about two hours to do this work so the first two contracts Campbell, Whittier, Lewisville that contract is just about completed probably will be complete here the next day so that was the first contract that went out to bid and as I said probably as of tomorrow tomorrow Wednesday at the latest probably be all done with that and then the southwest quadrant we've done probably more than half the work on that contract those are some of the roads that encompass in the area of Lewisville and that's often being done by the same contractor and I would think within the week you probably have those ones finished up too so we're moving along pretty good and these were contracts that we had completion dates up in August and it seems like they're getting done faster than anticipated the east quadrant which is Christian Hill Sanders Arnold North Main Street Finlay Bridge area that contract started last Wednesday so currently we're on the Christian Hill that was middle of September completion date I would say the contractor keeps going in the direction they're at that should be done well before then and the most recent one that was awarded was the northwest quadrant which that's the Gilead area I apologize they don't have all the the roads with me exactly that they affect with that one we'll be looking at starting some work there probably within the next week week and a half so I've been and that goes to the also middle of September yeah contracts through the middle of September so I'll be out there I've been heading up all the dirt so far some of the challenges that we have had is this damage occurred back in spring and we've had one or two or three other smaller events since then so there's been in some cases extra erosion in those areas in some cases we may be doing work on one road that was bid out with FEMA that same road down down farther it's got erosion going on now that's not a FEMA project and won't be a FEMA project so now those are being identified and we're starting to work with the road crew like for instance we had Jeff's firm you know finishing up Willisville and Whittier and as we've been doing the Willisville and Whittier Allen and Allen has been coming out here to do some punch list items that weren't covered under the bid that we've been doing in town through the town and for any of you that live I don't think many of you live in that area but anybody that lives in the Willisville and Whittier has noticed here in the last two weeks that we've done substantial work there that's kind of how this is going to flow as we go is working with Allen so as the contractors are doing work in certain areas I'm contacting Allen and Terese to give them hey this is what else I see out there that we need to address and then we've been putting that on the list to kind of try to put that up as the contractors go we're going to come behind them and get the areas that weren't covered the Canberra Paving piece which we just barely awarded that contract and the date for that is October 12 the contractor has said that they would start to work after Labor Day it'll take about a week to do so I'm willing to say that work will get done probably pretty close to a month ahead of schedule from what was advertised that one's been a really slow big project just because there's the the ground road ones that I mentioned first those are done through FEMA the Canberra Road is being done all with Federal Highway money because Canberra Road is a corridor road from here to Rochester so years ago it used to be under state control at some point when it was that it got turned over to the town to maintenance but Federal Highway still has a hand in that so that will be done through Federal Highway money which is actually better for our community because they will pay 100% of it so we won't be stuck at the end with a 12.5% wrap on that however with that a little bit slower process so the state actually went out there to identify what needed to be done some work has been done through another contractor or contractors during the emergency period and then right now the rest the in road work will be done under the contractor that was talked about and then we're also talking with the state right now with some other work on that road that needs to be done like some rip wrapping around the pole works register ditching stone lining some other ditches up through there that we're trying to get them to participate in again that will be once we have the contractor going there in September again if there's anything that isn't picked up by the state at that time we'll be getting together with Alan and the road crew kind of do some bunch of sites on getting some of that caught up and then obviously we have the bridge is one that we thought we had all figured out early on until some wrenches are thrown into it but hopefully this will come around and then and then we'll have one more contractor definitely or two more that we haven't really where the process of putting them together really kind of catch all for some smaller ones I had to freak them separate so the water sewer is out to bid but pee vine is now we need to get an engineer for pee vine as well because there's a massive culvert part way up the road and then there's an erosion a lot of slide but where if you look like half right here drops down and then it's all missing to the river so we have to get an engineer for that so so we're hoping to get one and you know maybe we can do one engineer now and get the engineer for pee vine culvert, pee vine slide and maybe canelo too to try to get every you know do all the projects in Bethlehem so that's that's actually going to go out to bid hopefully this week I'm waiting for the RFP to come from two rivers from that one yes I've been on my car show and it talks a little bit about the erosion that's occurred since earlier storms I'm really just giving the playables being a passable ditch pretty quickly and so I'm wondering I also heard that there was talk of narrowing the road and bringing the ditches further in so I'm wondering if you can so we I know where that is coming from but I mean the idea right now is to make sure that our ditches are cracked so that they can handle the amount of water that during a larger vent now I'll say today there's only been one road that we've done under a contract that has slightly which isn't finished yet that has been slightly narrowed because of the falling water that went through which was Campo Road it was a huge falling water that went through Campo Road and you can see how it comes off the mountain the next event that we have it would be just like that so our ditch channel was deeper and was wider than normal what's happened over time in our town is we got used to seeing large roads with no ditch lines or little ditch lines or greater ditch lines and greater ditch lines small ditch lines are fine for most normal roads except for some of these roads that we are identifying that can or do have large water that hits them during an event so we're trying to be proactive with that at the same time through the FEMA where there are certain specifications that we're working with so five or six foot ditch lines rather than a two foot ditch line and Campo Road the road overall has been narrowed to date but looking at the width of that road and the parent to other roads that I've seen out there is not really any different than the other roads we have so I can't really comment on that because I haven't been there to start staking it out to see what we've got going on there but the idea is to put in a ditch line that can absorb the water penetration that we get during an event and to maximize our road with but I can't tell you any more information because I really haven't been there to do any of the surveying yet and one about the is there any way to at least get a greater after-road so that problems are kind of hard to be able to see it I'm sure Alan's writing that down he'll have someone go up there and people look at that and see what we can do for maintenance while we're waiting I thought that the road was the middle of the road 25-18 the way almost like an imminent domain so I understand that you need to make wider ditches that makes so much sense but I don't understand why it's going into the road instead of out into the side well in some cases in some cases Jeff can attest to that in some cases you're rid up against a bank so you can't go into the bank or if you go into the bank the bank is going to slump back into the ditch line you kind of have to go to the bank and then extend your ditch line out which comes into the roadway but we had a lot of our dirt roads and a lot of dirt roads in the state of Vermont are built on 18-foot dirt roads so we kind of that's the way a lot of dirt roads were built and over time with decades of grading some of those roads now that were 18 are now 20-22 feet wide so we got kind of used to riding on these wider roads but at the same time our ditch lines became very small and when we have I don't know how many inches of water fell does anybody know how many inches of water fell in that storm that we had in the spring but if you get 4 or 5 inches of rain that falls you know it's gone I think that's fair but I think it's nice to be seen as a two-lane road right oh absolutely the intent is to be a two-lane road yep what did you say that? a two-lane road? well a two-lane road is not finished yet so I guess I'm on the weekends and there are spots that are 12 feet wide no I'd measure the whole road that narrows us on a two-lane road currently 15 feet wide initially I'm pretty concerned about how narrow it's going to be but after they added the enormous stone it's going to be a two-lane road I'm not worried about it anymore but initially when you saw the cast and they dug out the side of the road it was seemingly for sure still isn't a few spots but I'm pretty not sure the level of two-lane roads so thank you I'm Michelle Packard I just want to say that when the ditching is done by the contractor the town needs to maintain that ditching I'm just stating it because I've been through more than one storm and the roads have been put back together and there's been ditching but the grader comes through and takes the ditch away and every time they take a ditch away so I just want to say how important it is that once the ditching is done the town's going to maintain it and keep that ditching because actually, I'm sorry but in fact, our shield is better than mine though at the moment, but I know it's going to get better I'm sorry it's going to get better but because that's the way avoid the traffic at the end of the road that's just all I want to say on it because I think it's really, really important and I think you can't not maintain it because the contractor's going to do all this work it's going to be ditched it's going to be useful, it's going to work but over the years it goes away because the town's not maintaining it that's all right Any other questions in regards to the what is called the flood time work? I actually do have a question I don't know about the road and while I'm concerned about the ditching I've learned about the culverts that are personally maintained by property owners along the road my neighbor has not done anything for the culverts in the 15 years that I've lived there and the town won't do anything about it either and so therefore, all these lovely ditches do is they bring all the water to the bottom of that driveway and then it goes across the road and washes the road into my pasture down the field and I don't have any control over that and the town won't do anything about it and the property owner won't do anything about it so what happens in a case like that there has to be some responsibility for the culverts as well I know the answer is who to get out there as a problem we've been talking about the in-house on us I'm sure it's not going to be a flood chance yeah what we can call that we plan on working on a plan to flush culverts in those late spring through the summer and to do that we'll probably end up needing a little bit of equipment that we don't have that we don't have to borrow from the fire department but it's something that we have been talking about to try and get out in front of that going forward because I had seen when I've been out there there's lots of dry culverts that are clogged with solvent and then you can see the water goes over the top of it down to the next person so that's something definitely we can do better as a town is cleaning out culverts and it's made a better plan is there a plan to do any paving of ghillie in front of the park that's paved I grew up in Vermont it's what I call my husband that we're raised to try to figure out the way around the road to avoid the holes but there's some places that it's really hard to avoid the holes and it seems like when they get filled they get filled and there's a little bump but for some reason it doesn't stick and immediately pops up out so I don't know if it needs more gravel if it needs to be pumped up like two feet in the middle of the road I don't know because that's not my bag but I know that it doesn't seem like the whole road's been made for a long time and I just our vehicles like are falling apart it's like what's that? it didn't go out with any of the FEMA work but I put it on the list and certainly there's other products that could be used hot patch or whatever to figure it out so we'll talk to Alan but I did put that on the list with the other stuff with errands and a couple other people to make sure that they get looked at so so I heard from L.A. and my mother and father-in-law they live on Blooper Hollow Road which is a very, very top of the mountain and we're just wondering if a sign could be put up that it's not a room road because people keep taking Google Maps down and being washed out of that store and spending the night really? no kidding wow it's just a small sign sounds like there's an opportunity yeah they're probably looking forward to that yeah but the last time was a mini-man that they had to put two different tow companies I mean it still makes me stupid to do this if a sign could be put up I'll add it to the list we're keeping a list of signs and we were out in Blooper Hollow not long ago and I don't believe somebody would yeah I know where it is wow yeah I will put that on the list absolutely wrap up the theme of discussion but I appreciate all the feedback and there are individual which I'm sure there are lots of individual issues on different roads just but I'm sure that we get information into the town office so that we can put that on our list of to do just call and ask for me and we'll put you on this and take care Erin you're on here so you're good, you're on here alright we will move ahead to our next appointment with Alan we started the discussion a couple of meetings ago in regards to the potential purchase of new equipment we've had the ongoing issues with the one time the truck which has consumed a lot of resources and we talked in the last meeting on either what to do with that truck what to keep it what we trade it what we trade it for what we do not know tonight's time of the nineties make a decision on how it works in our packets there are two options in regards to in regards to purchase freeze also put in there what the equipment maintenance schedule would look like with that we're trying to find the four options the four options so there's the vehicles and then there's the four options finance and Alan had given us a list and I had Kelly type up and we put in numbers next to it so I guess Alan could you just briefly recap the two options for the trade okay one second sorry there's more seats up front still they've been vacated just run us through the two options I mean I had so once we get to what we have we'll see a series of low profile initially originally as opposed to you guys we'll need the truck to do the job damper up also be able to take on intersections so that you guys can browse with all the people on the tag yet so we're running late that truck will also want to dirt road so one time so this take me through the options with the one time what would it be loaded with and what would you use it with the one time that we have the one that you'd like to purchase we can't hear a word you can't hear a word you can't hear a word like I said in this room it's the acoustics are very very tough on this room can you stand up and talk for a little while I can talk to you guys I understand that well if you don't have any important information there's no need to hear it but if you've got questions can you take us through the one time so what would it be set up with and what would you be using the one time before this one would be for campfire it has a wing plow, sand and bottom why take the one time to campfire this is the problem is when I'm submitting a better option which is the old plow plow why would you want that truck to be campfire with that one truck the tandem should be all out easy you don't need to one time our old plow plow it's a long old plow and you want to put salt on it that's a waste of talent value money so we can I appreciate the feedback you did it for 10 years can't take that the piece I appreciate the feedback and I'll make sure that you get out I'll make sure you get the opportunity to speak so just to back up maybe we should gone through some of the rules of the meeting but so and I did propose a tandem so everybody's aware of that so the select board meeting anyway the select board meeting is the meeting of the select board and the public is more than welcome to attend the meeting and in some case participate in there will be time for comments but when we're in an item of itself if you want to be identified you're going to have to raise your hand and then I will identify you and we'll be able to do comments you know if we have a lot of banter going on into the room then we are not going to accomplish anything so what I'd like to hear first is you know again we're exploring options these are options for what we do nothing we pick option A option B so to be able to make a educated I just want to make sure that we understand what each option is I can read through the packet see all the specs but I just want to know you know what is on it and what we're going to use it for and so can you just back up now into what you started with it also comes down to availability we're going to start off the season not have an extra buck and do all the camera everything that one time has been asked to do for I don't know how many years as it is right now we have a crap frame on that truck it's been asked that truck has been asked to do a lot of work it's just it's been overworked also at the same time okay so hold on I just want to just want to put this right on the I just want to find out what we can talk about what we're going to use it for what happens again I'm just trying to figure out if we keep that on time use it as our honor that it's still safe so the new one time truck because when you were talking we didn't get to hear half of what you were saying so the new one time truck if we purchased the one time truck that option one or whatever it was that comes with a wing we basically set up the same as our one time truck that's right now wing and sander identical just of the year okay so wing and sander and then the option two is the CV series the local file and what hardware does that come with comes with a wing, plow and two feet longer bed all the stouts are in this back it's just a little bit more carrying more weight the frame is not a square two frame where salt just would sit in there and ride it's actually a seat frame seat gem when you look at the two back it's just overall better as far as being able to maintain it keep it clean so being that on the on the one time truck being that for the one time truck we currently have we had that up fitted with plow and wing and sander and we ended up having to get the broken frame out of that would it be wise if we did go with another one time would it be wise to not go with a wing plow to that and that's what the recommendations are that I'm hearing from feedback so the that's what's specced in here right this is the fairfield and this is the dump this is the plow which says front plow hitch and so this is so this doesn't even include a wing right Alan the estimate that you got from Fairfield for $44,000 so for the overall price on that that we were looking at is $97,140 they were charging well they were charging a sales tax which I took out yeah so that's what's in here so that's the front plow standard and then and then the low profile truck that has the chassis that's heavier to be able to that we couldn't put a wing on that without having any structural issues but it comes with a wing but it comes with a wing and what was the price on that one that's the $110,650 that's the $110,650 so I was trying to read them is it late is it this simple for my head they're similar motors but the one ton is just a it's a bigger truck but the same motor to push it basically but it's the same motor and a one ton in this are very similar so you're going to get the same ok and this is four wheel drive this is the one ton is the one ton ok thank you alright thank you also the other difference is the one that's the better of the two the build date is actually over a second to the night which gets us into our plan not having to strong car is that fully you know the body all the way it's it's being done right now there's two not that color really matters but you have the choice of green and white and the one ton you said was a march was it a December I mean like end of December end of November to December and that one ton like I said before the skyline I'm dealing with basically was one it was an eight ways about 15,000 just to keep that as a guess not being on site to see the truck just from seeing the cars that I sent you said that's probably what they were offered as well was that figured into the the points for that one no it's been figured in the vehicle improvement sheet you can see where at the top it says proceeds from sale equipment the 15,000 and the Ford that one ton does have the six year 75,000 mile premium $100 deductible so it does get the extended warranty priced on that which was good are we able to get trade in value towards either one of them two paramount for that five but only in the one ton so we can trade the one ton right now for the CV but that gives a softer just kind of keep it and keep nursing it and have it run to the 150 or whatever I did not create an option in which you kept the one ton so if you do that's there's 15,000 in here but I have the proceeds of sale equipment so just so you know you can do that just keeping that number alive there's 15,000 as a revenue in there that wouldn't be which is not a problem I can change it later just wanting to know so based on the options that you've created for now what's your recommendations I've ran it one ton two winners now it's pretty hard on the local powers on trial and on through on going by manufacturers words what it's capable of and the reinforced areas the improvements that need to that to make that truck it's kind of going to meet up with the internationals at Allison's Transmission Chevy for GMC Denial what do you call it? all the best of all our companies the best in this world but again it's on improvement other than stock price I have a question about the route I know there's a lot of concern about you plowing with one ton campbrook but don't I looked at the route so isn't it true that both Jason and AJ cross so they can certainly they could pick up some and it would probably add like what maybe an hour to each of their routes or just one if they were to pick up campbrook or some of campbrook and they do they do of course that they're going to be going down in another part of the road they do the plowing on the wing but they're not on the other side you know right it's from top to bottom to top and yeah so uh AJ Jason carries sand you know carries salt oh yeah yeah sure you carry sand is not salt only Doug and Al we're going to now carry salt right? yeah it can yeah in the international well it's almost the same system it's just a little bit of sweat and I'm going to carry it oh yeah and with either of these you still have all the sand what are you using what are you using for example with the common wood and tires if you have to end up purchasing them in the tires we outrun chains not to get changed also you have chains for the one ton so if they got a one ton you'd already have the chains and you could just move the radio you could move a radio from any from either so the radio would come out of the one ton you're getting rid of and you could update those to a new radio that already started to transition sometimes we're doing an now and so bit in the end because there are certain changes so we're assuming ours are going to come out so yeah we might have to budget for that in the next round yeah but so you could move the radio from it's going so that's not going to be an additional just the installation could we show our existing the 550 LA and this was possible so what would happen what would happen if we did nothing and two weeks before the first snowstorm the one ton breaks down done that commission we're not doing anything with it how could you plow your current routes with the equipment that you have left since look at how a major storm broke out and overtime every one of us take our route out that's how many hours of overtime we're going to be adding on those guys to just keep those roads open no one was going to add I just had to I had a lot of comments I can't fathom how the guys were that much more seen as outpired on some of those forms but it's no one before I say that again it's exploring all option area and I've had lots of comments from individuals throughout the town that have been here for a long time and remembered what they used to plow with less pieces of equipment and we haven't added any roads so I guess that's why roads that hypothetical of one ton goes down it's December you can't get to their option as we plow those that's what we've done since I've got here I've killed them all up but you can't plow with a 250 he's got a 350 pickup right? and he actually destroyed a lot of his weights into the compound the other thing is so basically the biggest issue with a one ton is the fuel rail and if it goes it's about a $12,000 expense so if they were to have keep the one ton available that we could find a fuel rail or a used one or get it ordered so that we have one is that something that could be installed in the shop if we had one is that something that or would it have to be sent out it would have to be it would have to be that was what you thought my thought was if there's one time to go down it's time to go down but each truck will change its own route and then we have to go back to Jason and we have to control all of Avid Road area all that over there again it's going to be done but it's going to take a little time it also would have to do there's also a Lawson Heel over there that would be all of them too in America I can do all of Chris Heel to come back and pick up some of the stuff that Jason or AJ found where they are and not to lead up and do something that they haven't done again it can be done but it's time to sort of do the process what's your thoughts Jason take the one time going down overall let's say let's say we purchasing something or in the case let's say we did nothing could we make the existing equipment work what's your thoughts on that I'd say if I had to bet I would say do a $20,000 repair fund for the one ton and we'd run it with just a plow and no wing and see how that goes if we're not going to do the 10 wheelers that was the initial and voices would like a 10 wheeler for instance if any of the trucks go down the 10 wheeler could fill it we could haul our gravel quicker we could haul our sand quicker we could get our snow out of town quicker with three 10 wheelers but if that's off the table then I'd say we'd deal with what we have until the time to trade right so I've done a dynamo work on this and I've been around this town before I was cranking the brakes at the town's awkward path there again we were there for a little while so being that you've done it over at home where so it might put you into the conversation of either do we purchase something do we keep the one ton or if the one ton went down can we plow with what we have what's your thoughts on that so now that we've had it all come very long 15, 20 years so it was done for years without it you just figured it out like I said they've got a great reform you know it doesn't happen anymore you figured it out did we get that one ton just to do it again for 100% for a whole load of the youth we got it for the youth what would happen I mean I'm not I'm not a plow person, specialist I don't know the roots and ain't the one number I'm a numbers person I think the thing I just keep coming back to my head is how can we make you know can we make the system work the way it is without having to incur any more expense and you know the most vital pieces of equipment that we own is the grader and the two freight runners which are due or overdue and the grader we pushed back last year also the grade also can be used to you can put 10 years on the grader to take you away you know we used to have the powers what would happen if we did some extra plowing with the grader what does that do for 10 years on it's life does that mean they hired on it it would be a little hard it's not really important to hear the facts and that's to be said we're set to replace the grader next year every time we push the grader back there's an opportunity there for some sort of major mechanical breakdown or it's going to decrease in value so that when we go to freight it towards the new grader that net difference is larger and then we have the freight liner we haven't moved those back but those are all coming up year 2, year 3 so we got greater freight liner and it's also if you notice at the top where we've had this annual the 66108 I had to go to 110 for next year then 115 then 120 and that still left us in a deficit here which we could hold for a little bit to pay back same thing as the fire department but this is if we pay take all of which needs to be done a whole 29,200 dollars worth of equipment repairs that was putting that in here and taking out the sale equipment and then putting in the 97148 this is just option 1 option 2 where 3 gives you in the 110650 and this was here making a $90,000 payment on the loader but if for some reason that you don't do anything then these numbers could change your down payment could be bigger but last but not saying that's the way to go because one of the options we did talk about was if we kept everything alone and we didn't purchase anything and we couldn't spend a lot of money on doing some more preventive maintenance to the equipment that we do have investing some money into that rather than it's almost $30,000 worth of equipment repairs that need to happen so and that's also much important here so if we keep the load time that we have now what can we use it for during the loader anything at all all of them we can grab a load of sand salt or sand salt sand can you put a different no he had it welded can you put a smaller or lighter so that's the right way a lighter plow on the front so you could still plow with it just you couldn't use your existing plow even with the wing off is that too much for that I don't remember what the welded guy said but we could still use that in a capacity or use the one time to aid the other traps get your instructions and things like that exactly I'm just thinking of providing another one and if anything I can't broke it's going to feed it up it's a big chunk of money that's found on something that may not reach its shelf life because of I agree on that I don't want to keep you here here for a change I mean we got to snap this or broken that wouldn't we we would be fine I'm carrying a salt sand could we take some of that money and put it into the equipment fund I mean you could you could use I have a couple options I budgeted for the repairs to come out of the capital equipment fund if you don't want to do that then we would just you would instruct Allen to get all basically $30,000 worth of the repairs done not including the fuel line and he would just overspend his repair budget and you have to balance it out with the materials depending on the winter just to state this a lot of things was the amount of additional overtime because of trucks coming down and us that time and doing the repairs and also doing the repairs and so even in the discussion and we have to put that back in the mix of what it looked like last year with time down because we had one truck that was now plowing and additional time into repairing that truck so not just the expense of the repairs but the time we lost and the additional overtime to that I think it just has to be part of the discussion plus what's tough with winter is winter is never same you know because in winter last year we had a lot of big storms that really put a beating on our equipment what was the the one time down the most last year right what about the other pieces that we had we had a lot of issues with downtime with the other pieces I mean we spent just normal break ends I mean you know off the top of your head when we invested in the one time last year I don't remember it was large yeah right not going to give you a house basically six grand I mean you probably I bet you spent six grand more than me I'm trying to remember I would have had to look I mean the only thing that we could see that is that we did buy something if we did buy something then even after you know we would have to increase our our equipment fund and we would still be in a negative yeah you would be in less if we put repairs in here I mean unless we unless we made cuts elsewhere in the budget you would be adding you know basically like three cents in tax just to purchase that piece of equipment based on our schedule of and that would be to keep the braver on schedule the brake letters on schedule and you spent a whole about 16 and that's if you took the 15 in and bought this and then you paid for the repairs out of this regular budget please review this just speaking of the the heat you've done it says the loader has about $8500 seat, air, radiator, turn signal windshield, rim the back co says pad for out rigger the freight liner needs tires, rim, quick connects a new plow that's 13-1, 13-2 tires, rim, mud flap quick connects a new plow and then and then so the international mirror and a bracket all trucks need a quick coupler so the prices that we had for all that was 29,200 so if tires are out it would drop the price about $7,000 out for tires so that would drop to about 22,200 I guess the way we looked at Doug was we didn't invest in any piece of equipment could we take some money and invest it and some of the current pieces we have to maybe prolong well if you prolong the loader mostly but it's got a radiator you have to replace the radiator the motor's taller than that so that's good to look at the most expensive thing for that would be to get that done it's got something that's got a mirror windshield so that's maybe a mirror would help on the right-hand side something like that but you don't have to dump all that money at one time until you have one deal so that you can save something in that area but I would have to say if you want to do something with the loader radiator first that's on the list and both we know Jason needs a plow and we know the other truck needs a plow so those are on here as well wouldn't that come from the Toyota on his plow $3,000 and that's in the Capital Equipment Fund we were given $3,893 for that plow because it was used so obviously to replace it is well that was some other stuff but obviously it's a lot more than that to replace it but that's all we got for the insurance A.A. truck is going to need the plow so my truck is holding up pretty well it's holding up pretty well yeah that's what's in here we did have a spare but that was ready too long because that should have been replaced and it would have had a spare and we used that spare mostly when we were trying to go up on with not winning the load right down from the shop I can't think of that class 3 motor goes all the way back to past past the shop here first going on the right so it wasn't going to drop and that plow there was we used to produce that plow with the weight of the load you can't say the truck up there when we were talking about the load we were going to be here this weekend and you got 6 feet of snow up there and I'm going to say that pushy through is going to be a great pushy through yeah we always did that so so many things here about 4,000 I definitely would and cut that one yeah the list was the select board had asked Alan to list every single thing that he did so that's why the list is staying Alan could prioritize but he did I turned my mirror in last year that he would give that would have been the first half of that I would have had to list in I told him that would have been better these are some things here and now are you 13 I'm just here okay so we'll add that to I think it says it's on here yep it's on here international tire it says mirror and bracket but the brackets the mirror and bracket is just a small one but the mirror itself it's just on the half and side this one straight right there I'm going to use that but it's something you don't have to get in place so we'll go right up that's why the list was so in-depth was because he was asked to list every single thing but that's why I have that number on it what's the board going to stay in New York still well these are mainly the 20,000 to 30,000 and that's a that's if we that's with with a new purchase yeah with a new purchase depending what it be like if you're looking option one you can see I have I have the expenses for the repairs and the 97,000 whereas if you look at option two I just had the 97,000 yeah so you're right it would buy it means you wouldn't have to increase your annual appropriation from 66 to 110 to 115 to 120 because you would obviously have more money in the coffers and maybe and who knows do we might get a better interest rate on a loader or I mean on the grader I said yeah I'm not a loader I meant grader sorry so because I can see what you're concerned with be is obviously if you have to jump from 66 to 110 to 115 to 120 it's that's a big jump in the first year for sure I don't know he said three cents yeah three cents so I mean overall yeah over that span over probably a two year span that's to keep everything on schedule right because I don't think at this point we can afford to purchase and put other pieces back especially when the other pieces are well I see it as more important to put them in the town now you're grader and you're too afraid by those years you know our key and loader right I mean those are the key pieces I think the loader for what we need the loader to do and call on that time to use it as a record service I think the loader is fine for that the motor solver has entrenched the already years and stuff down to what I brought you today because some don't have a lot of wine and stuff so if you go too fast it lets you know and if you keep going down you can't go in the fastest way that you can stuff a going downhill you don't want to do that going downhill that's what you need to hear from me I'm willing to tell you I'm not doing anything at this point I'm just trying to rework the roots and take some of the money and do the repairs that are needed for the other piece of equipment to get a lot of stuff and we know what we're going to have over time and we've got over time the budget already and maybe there's going to be some more over time but we don't know what kind of a winner it's going to be it could be easy, could be hard but who knows I just think spending that kind of money and having over three cents over a course of time is just what the tax rate is going to be and I'll see I'll say if it doesn't work then we can just write that and then we can always reconsider and go out and work next year well it doesn't sound like any of these options are ideal nothing sounds like the one thing we've already identified is and the solution to that and also the international and the best solution I'm just curious if the international this year because are there trading options that we can get something that is more what we actually need I mean I don't know enough about this to know if that's worth a while if the financing refinancing just makes the difference not worth it because the ten-wheeler was originally ideal but the board said no because it's just too much money so but to get something and then trade it in a couple of years down the road something else to value that it's certainly appreciated once it's had a winter or two once you drive it out a lot simply after that action the other option is I suppose I won't sound about it but I mean other towns sell equipment I mean is it possible that if you don't do anything right this minute but you allow him to spend the 29,000 out of the capital equipment fund for the repair so that his budget doesn't take a hit in case he has overtime is it possible that there is a ten-wheeler that he could purchase from another town maybe used but if they had all the maintenance records maybe then he gets what a ten-wheeler that maybe you know doesn't go eight or nine years it maybe goes to your poor I don't know I mean I know other towns get rid of equipment all the time we've all done it you get rid of stuff I just don't know but I do think that if you're going to have Alan do the repairs and you're not going to purchase a replacement vehicle you should allow those repairs to come out of the capital equipment fund so that if he has overtime needs contract and services his budget doesn't get wiped out I mean I gotta think that the amount of money that we invested in equipment the downtime that we had and we had the contracts and services last year you know even if we went with nothing this year and we invested you know twenty twenty five thousand dollars into our existing pieces that we come out ahead that's kind of the way I think unless we run into this year so if we did nothing this year are we then looking at doing the greater and something else next year? well I think as of right now we're talking about moving forward with the greater next year it depends on how the winter goes if we choose to do nothing and we're back here in the spring saying we really should have done that piece of equipment and maybe we're at that time if we did go that way we'd be looking at very similar numbers to what we have now or potentially or it could be larger or it could be less and I'm not those are just a great idea but the problem is I'm not starting to sand mine so I'm going to go out and do it twice but if we've got two guys one doing the greater one do it the same way we've got to go out on the rocks and sand that part normally the tassel we have turned out the gray has to run up once the gray has got done with that it's just going to be clear in the roads not problems with snow and stuff like that but you're not going to put down sand or anything else while it's still snowing so you've used that one then where the grader can't do it then you want it on the top some behind it same thing that's done in the past I'm going to suggest that you use the gray this much faster so you're right if you don't do anything when you could you don't know what's going to happen for the spring but you just don't know but Chris is right at least if you that you're going to invest in these other vehicles it's not the one ton so if you were to invest in these other vehicles you're just going to they're going to be better shaped when you go to trade them and that sort of thing too so I think that Chris is right there's no law we just came out of one of the hardest winter that we've had in a decade on many levels it wasn't just snow but the amount of money that we were shelling out down time seemed like that one ton every time I talked to Greg it was one ton in the shop and the one ton may have went into the shop for a warranty issue but by the time it was in the shop they found four other things that was wrong that wasn't warranty that could be fixed and then you had lost time probably with all the lost time that we had we could have I'm sure there was unproductive time when that vehicle was in the shop that we were obviously paying for somebody but that wasn't the plan we were just grabbing back everything we had throw some money no throw some money spend some money on upgrading what we've got making sure it's functional and looking for roots I think what we've done in just a second now is the board prepared to go around the decision to make a motion that we hold off purchasing anything at this point and allow money needed to do the repairs to be able to put them out of the capital out of the capital you know okay you guys have that one of the questions I'm curious about I know we just purchased tires what point did that come here's your regular budget we increased the budget last year when Alan and I and Greg met and Alan had put in some extra money for tires so it was in the general fund budget that was approved by the voters we're trying to get more futuristic with our purchases from the past two years ago remember we had the emergency purchase tires I was here because it was right here we didn't have it on the budget or anything we started to get budgets on these items it was almost 6, 8, 7 almost 9 after 22 years so the tire business is not coming out of that 30,000 no that means coming out of your entire budget yeah because over two years we've gone rand out of their tires because the budget wasn't right but we fixed that this year right so we will anything does anybody have further on the discussion before this we appreciate all your hard work and don't see it as that we're trying to take a cool wave through this we're just trying to do more with what we have does anybody have any objections if we move to a key player maybe because he's not here he's not here sure selly I apologize for you never know these meetings when I drop my kids off this evening at the charity fund as I said I don't think we'll be that long this one's going to be one that goes really well it's too old so you just never know how long these meetings go they go 2 hours 3 hours so we just so we wanted to get circle wagons with the recreation committees a little history on it we had we've been talking about kind of the next step in the massive plan which has been the skate park and the rec committee has been here you know a couple of times here in the last few years we've been talking about we've been talking about you know a couple of times here in the last year giving us updates on where they're at the last update we had was June 2 July where at that point you know some of the funding you're looking for didn't happen but you were kind of modifying some of the right so just so because at the last because yes it came in May and it came in July and I don't feel that all the select people were here then and there are other people that are born here I'd like to and I met with Therese on the 29th of July and because of the questions and the things that she was concerned about in question though I thought that I would just go back and reiterate some because it's sometimes you forget or sometimes the information is not all there so I'll start with that you know we did a survey in 2012 and from that survey that we did it was an extensive survey and I went door to door three neighborhoods and made sure that I got the responses so that it was a very complete survey that was done in August 2012 the tabulation from that that we found that there were people that never used the pool or only used it when they were four years old and they wanted other things for the center so that's our premise our mission that we started out for is to make it an all around recreation center so then we got the IA and we met with them once a month to make up a master plan and here's all the VIA stuff that we did to make sure that once a month and then compliance that we were able to do that so then in March of 2013 we came up with the master plan here once we did that the administration said that we wanted to go and collect money and the only way to finance this major project was to go through FEMA alternate plans so the administration was to FEMA this is the FEMA they had to do it many many times this is the FEMA application that they redid and redid and and this is that the purpose of the undertaking is to improve the condition of the center the new design will include following alterations remove the existing enclosed pool house and add to under square feet to the changing room and add to the outer space reconfigurate the existing tennis courts and parking area for additional parking spaces modifications for existing playgrounds addition of a skate park new access to trails and addition of a designated area that will be flooded in winter for a skateboard park so those were all the things that were put into the FEMA application and was redone and redone now and the process and everything at the VA meeting at April 24 2015 it was determined that noted that the skate park is too large and will not meet the budget Lucien and noted a possible design of 65,000 for the skate park considering 40,000 construction costs we will research the skate park and design and since then we've been cutting it down April of 2015 the minutes of the committee meeting of September 24 2015 the pool house renovations are a go and will start soon though originally the base of the skate park was to be done at the same time it will not so originally they were going to do the skate park and the pool house at the same time to make sure the renovations of the pool house do not go over budget there is built a cushion of the funds done from being so then at the committee meeting of November 11 2015 the committee is recommending to ask that the improvement fund be increased to 30,000 Rebecca Torts was at our meeting to help with fundraising ideas the committee wants to be ready for the next stage of the master plan which is the skate park we discussed the Lavec Rams the training at least the concrete base of the skate park so that was still the BIA the meetings that you're having that's the rec committee the rec committee the rec committee the rec committee is September 24 the rec committee of November 11 this is the rec committee of December 8 2015 myself okay we did November December okay December of 2015 the budget request she went to the November 20 something she asked she asked the improvement fund be increased to 30,000 in the budget the select board decided to leave the fund at 15,000 and we see about putting the additional as a line item for the Bethel citizens to vote on and and that was that line item and you'll see in the town town report that that was the line item at the 2016 town meet so then and and so and then if you read the March of 2016 the voters approved the 20,000 and they approved it by a voice vote let's see now the January 13 2015 committee meeting okay now that the full house renovations have started the committee is looking to get the state board part done Corey that he looked into the requirements to applying to the Tony Hop Foundation so we started doing that the and then it's also in here about the budget for 1617 requests other presented a copy of the draft of the budget and she showed the committee the suggested request for the 30,000 how the 30,000 for the approval of the budget would be presented for about and then I just showed you in the town reports okay so that's that one and then what do I have here okay then in February 2015 the committee okay the committee the Louvrec award was finalized, approved by the sec board and sent to up in the week and that Louvrec grant was asked, we asked to do that so we could have it for the state board part did you get awarded to you or not yes okay so then let's see let's see so then that fall this is February of 2016 and I just showed you the town report of 2016 where we vote people vote so then in the fall of 2016 Corey and I met with Michael Parker okay Corey came to the flood board meeting a few times about his proposal so showing this proposal so that he could go forth to do the Tommy Hawk grant which we got 5,000 or in the end grant okay in this contract we didn't but we used it to get the Tommy Hawk grant and we put it on the back corner of whether we would bid it out to him or not but in his proposal he has stated what he could do and how he would build it and there's no anything about civil engineer and the timeline on this was that that in December 2016 he would meet with the flood board which he did in January 2017 he would submit the grant application to the Tommy Hawk Foundation which he did and then he had to do it again and we got the 5,000 dollars in March of 2017 we would make a request for 40,000 for the construction of the Tommy Hawk grant which we did but according to this it was 30,000 as a line item and then 10,000 in the improvement grant so if you look at the Tommy Hawk okay in June of 2017 they we applied the grant for the Tommy Hawk okay in August just a proposed time limit and in August of 2017 the pool closes we hopefully begin construction and in November of 2017 the speed board is complete that's what we hope and what we did by doing this proposal with Michael Parker and getting a timeline for the Tommy Hawk grant so anyway and then what happened was 12 2015 Ellie reported that there was a good participation in the 50-50 raffle at the Ford Festival because I went around and I had asked the slip board if I could do that raffle at the Better Block Ford Festival to raise money from the Skateboard Park and I was given permission and all in all we raised $136 was raised to go toward that end um um we have also um so that's what we did then okay and then and in the meantime we got like I said we got the little vet grant for $1,000 we got the Tommy Hawk for $5,000 and we got we did a fundraiser we had a concert a Vermont Symphony came and we had a dinner concert a lot of people supported it and just as they did the 50-50 raffle at the Better Block they supported the Skateboard Park by buying tickets and they supported the dinner and we got raised $4,000 for that okay and then um and then the tele-meeting of 2016 is when we asked for a line of items and got that money for the Skateboard Park um and then in October 11th of 2017 I'm not sure why we went in a different direction but Cory had gone to the select board to ask that Spawn Ranch would come and do a design workshop and so that's what we did and since then we have been fiddling with the design I know it takes a long it seems like it's taking a long, long time those kids that were here in the back that have left they were a part of the kids that helped us and we've come to recreation committee meetings they came before the town meeting to talk about how important it was for the Skateboard Park so um what we want to do now is we want to move the swing set and we want to focus and we have someone working on the Tarence Foundation for us to see a letter of intent and we've got the approval of the DRB to our master plan so we are doing all those things to go forward to make this Skateboard Park could you go back to what was it you just said a letter of intent to the Tarence Foundation a few years ago they um 70,000 to Liberty Park for Skateboard Park so um I have Rebecca Stone working on the letter of intent and to try to get that we did um like I said we didn't get the land and water conservation fund but they say we can reapply next year so the Tarence Foundation is not a grant you wouldn't have to have matching funds we uh I think we do okay so so we would go for we would have 50,000 in there so we would go for 50,000 alright so if you haven't already and maybe you've done this I just wasn't present if you haven't there is a grant policy so you have to get permission from the select board before you apply so maybe you've already done that no we haven't done that I didn't know because we as we went before the select board just um and we went before the board and worked with Greg to do the land and water yeah that one I knew you did and we did the little back run by going to the select board so we're just in trying to think of you know but we have I was just trying to make sure I hadn't missed it that's why I was just trying to make sure you guys are here to all of us and I have to do anything so so I guess you know um some of the concerns that I have anyways is and just kind of looking back for those jobs and stuff down the timeline so you know the massive plan came together in 2013 yeah and then April 2015 is where the motion you put a motion to the skateboard part you know that was kind of the beginning of the timeline of that the select board it was given approval to move forward and that was in April 2015 and the reason for that was because it took so many tries um for FEMA to um okay for the pool house they had to reapply and reapply and then we had you know originally the goal was to have this part completed by November 2017 right and then you know here we are it's August 2019 so I guess and I'm just looking at this as a you know I don't have a preference of what we put there um I mean maybe yes my daughters they have some preferences but um I guess just kind of looking at it is you know we started off really good you know we um we got everything that the pool needed the structure you know um and this plan was flowing and then it got to the next step and it's just kind of stalled um it stalled between 2012 when we started with the BIA until they opened in the pool house in 2016 that was a long time that was four years so I mean I realized that it looks like it's been stalled but we have been really moving forward by trying to get grants and money and fundraising we haven't been stalled because we know that we have the fund raise and and you know we know that it took four years to do the pool house so we we tried to get the skateboard part right away but then we found that we needed time to do the fundraising necessary for it because in the original BIA they estimated that the skateboard part would be $35,000 and then we looked at it in 2015 and said no that's that you know and we also were told that it would be part of the pool house construction thing so we had to look at it in a different way yes so for reference spawn ranch design that was going to come in clearly over 300k so then working with a small town thinking that we were going to be able to swing that I'm not sure where this could have happened but small left top spawn ranch miles and miles apart and I'm trying to lay in someone in the middle where we're trying to lay in is very much fun and independent if we get matching funds we might be able to knock out two phases of our project we Michael Parker said he's probably available for us first thing in the spring to do whatever funding funding allows but he's both right through October and in the summits and in my trees and you can't set things up when it's likely to freeze so that's one of our current delays but I would say that securing proper funding for something that's not a bathtub not a spawn ranch somewhere in the middle that will more time before next spring should be helpful but this is you know since you know it's been it was like early 2017 is when we started getting this whole thing up we got to get this grant we don't get this grant and we can't get going and then we wait for the grant we don't get it and then we're going to get this grant and we've been doing this for like three years now but when you said we can get it and then we reapplied and then we got it so sometimes it's actually reduced rate I guess my comment and I'm sure the board can they'll all pitch in but at what point does the recreation committee not saying ditch the idea of a skateboard apart working on it you're saying right now it's 100% on funding right so it's not dead but you're waiting on your funding but what about moving to some of the other phases on here of you know a basketball board and we are but we're messing with the electrical company because and I've been messing with Dixie because we can't do the other parts when we don't know where the electrical lines are and I'm working with Tim Mills because they want to put electrical underground electrical up to the reservoir so we are working on other things and we were working on other things because we did the trails so we have been working on other things as and that's why when we went to the DRV that we did the new plan because we are as we're going forward with this skateboard park we worked on trails we got the first leg of the trail and we still are working on the trails and we are working with electric companies so we can work about the other structures because we don't want to do a structure where there are electrical lines in the ground so with the I'm not familiar between the tennis courts and the basketball courts what is preventing either one of those electrical and telephone because I met with Jim Comfy he feels that the lines are right there where the basketball court wants to be so I want to make trying to doubly sure that we're not going to do any harm and structures before I have all the information you're not thinking about moving the electric right? I mean that would probably yeah it would it doesn't but I feel that the committee to be working with Tim Mills and working with the electric companies and making sure because basically I thought we were working with everything when we did the pool house down that some things weren't in place you know they they kept saying no no no just concentrate on the pool house they wouldn't let us concentrate on anything else in the master plan at that time is um and I'm just throwing stuff out I mean being at the master plan was well it was never going to get but it was it was yes we brought before the slack board and they chose the option the slack board did? yes we brought it before the slack board and I don't know how to I remember it was most they voted on but it was it was set up at one of the town March 2016 I don't know why but we took inquiries on which option and then we went before the slack board and they chose but being that that was 2013 it wasn't in 2013 okay was it at 16 did you did they do that before the town meeting before it went to the you said before you guys discussed it with the voters in March 2016 did it go to both so the slack board somewhere between 2014 and 2016 chose an option well even if it did choose an option we're five years down the road yeah so a lot changed in five years and it's changed in that we were five years down the road for the full house because what I thought was interesting at the beginning when you were talking about stuff is the initial survey that you guys did yes the initial survey when you said you went from door to door but I thought it was interesting how much a lot of people had said that the school where it wasn't used since they were four however the school is very well used now yes I know that's true and it's true and at the time the voters to look at it and at the time well we had good voting I know that but that was five no this was in 2017 that they voted I understand that there was more attraction at that time that person is not here anymore that's true but we have people here I know but you're coming to us again I don't want to jump over you but this is a fair time 2017 we had it so more we had a deal last fall if you guys had made us hear your funds we would move forward with the state right and this was the second go around securing these funds we lost them the first time now we said we need to have some sort of time table to either move forward with this thing or just put it on the shelf a little bit and then May came and then there was an opportunity maybe in June, July, July now we're here in August and now all over again we're thinking about funding again so I'm just obviously we have more in your committee's budget than 50,000 that's set aside for the state right is the committee thinking about plan B and C and moving forward with us and while they wait for this funding because it's just it's ground holiday all over again as I said we're doing the trails we're trying to find electrical go forward with basketball and tennis one more we had it adapt for was last summer all the fuel traffic they didn't want all the paint space disappeared for a tennis court in the state even though that master plan had been in place for years so we had to do a complete reshuffling of any of the articles that we thought were part of this master plan complete redesign as far as where anything was going to go so that's an additional time to know so coming down next spring if we don't have free funding we'll even do one phase or one phase in our position here at the board and nothing against the committee because you guys are doing a great job you're limited on who's on the committee but this is the same exact conclusion that we came upon year after year but when we did it we did not in the original master plan have a basketball court the original master plan didn't have one but I can tell you if you go into town I don't just want to let you know the majority of people right now want to see a basketball court and an ice skating court and I know that and that's why we did it because of the concern about basketball and skating and I have to say that my thing is delaying that basketball court is I don't even know people want a basketball court people have basketball nine months of the year so it's not going to hurt them to wait a little bit longer to get a basketball court they have basketball nine months of the year okay and we changed the plan and that's why we're having some time frame because the time frame didn't work that we agreed to was because we didn't know about the permit had to be reduced and we didn't know we had to go before the DRB and we nicely changed the plan what are you thinking about well looking at this plan they got the tennis court right on the boundary line they called for a permit they gave us a leeway they are the ones that approve this plan we said and they have people property owners who come and the Ketchum's came and we talked about the boundaries and the regulations and they gave us that as long as we put the skateboard park certain feet from the Ketchum's the Ketchum's were fine with it and the other people you know whatever and they gave us the equipment I'm talking about the tennis court yes and that's the DRB said that was okay what about you Lynn personally I'm still in support of this skateboard I can see you guys putting both planning, adjusting plans fundraising, adjusting plans again and I think that it believes us to support you in that because you put in this level of work I don't think like just to say I don't think that we can do that endlessly and I think we're starting to hit that point where some people are going to go into one direction and some people are going to go into another I think my main comment here would be that if if we are going to push in the direction of letting the skateboard go I really think it needs to go to the voters I think because the voters have appropriated money specifically for it should go back to that but I personally don't feel like I'm in a place where we need to strap that whole thing I think so much of that energy has been raised and as Shane was saying it may the amount of the bill will may dictate exactly how much or how little it's done and that may return if only enough for a small portion if it's done it may make a decision that we don't go that direction but sitting here in the end of summer could make a call that personally I feel is not necessarily more it's called make it this point is an entirely fair to the level of work that we put in well over a hundred years now it's just done by me I've got six kids they're all going to be riding the skateboard more than anything I don't think I don't think anybody on this board can include myself anyways we're just here the will of the people that have spoken right however right now we're at a we've been spinning our wheels it may be different if you have all the funds and you're just saying we're just having this design issue and we think six months we'll have this design and we'll be going but everything's on an if if we get the funding no it's not on an if anymore because Michael Parker will work with us with the $50,000 he'll work with us with that do you see this as big but I've been on this board for the last five years and I've heard the same story and we've been looking for funding every year and they say if we don't get it we're going to go ahead with a smaller plan and we don't get it and then we don't go ahead with a smaller plan and now we're looking for well, well we I've heard that we had some information the smaller plan no, no, no, no we did talk the smaller plan and we've been working on I mean I think what the committee really needs to do is you need to sit down and watch yourselves and say what is this hard date that we're either going to move forward or working on and I know you've come to the board with different proposals it was May but at what point do you do something different I mean I don't know and it must be frustrating for you guys because you're putting so much work into it is, it is it is frustrating and I think it's literally hit it right on the head we're all here for I mean the board we're I think it was just Mo and I but you know the board was strongly behind the committee based upon the voters voices we're just here for a little guidance saying at what point do we switch gears and we keep wanting to go forward because it's not just the skateboard park it's for bikers it's for roller skaters we're making it a very virtual park for a lot of different functions and that's another reason why it's taking us to but yes I would like to and we did I mean we did talk about and that's why we've been cutting it down cutting it down I mean at this point I don't think that we can dismiss the skateboard park because we didn't one of the many that voted for right time meeting we just can't go that route and I think to bring it up again is that time may end up with different results and they cause complications you know what will come out of that react and put it back up there again if somebody wants to put in a petition before time meeting to have it brought up as a topic you can do that but on a meeting time I think we do need to kind of settle in on something a day we haven't got all the ducks in there while I take a day time meeting or sometimes between then and now it's hard to fight back on the feedback that we're getting on the street because things are changing I know right but we still have a core of people that are working on it and we do have and like I said I have three kids here but they left and the day I met with Teresa at the pool I talked to two mothers right there that day while I was waiting for Teresa and they were like yes my kids need a skateboard park so and they were people that were using it and they so I was stealing out people at the pool and I still got good responses Shane can you just reiterate I feel like earlier you said that Michael Parker is on board and could start next spring so is there a version of this in which if we have maybe it's a contract or preliminary contract with Michael Parker by time meeting that this is going to move forward in May not this last issue but if by time meeting we don't we can bring it up is that right well the thing is the plan itself was never voted on by the voters what was voted on by the voters was the money and so what I had explained was it did that happen what you could do to get the money back the issue when I spoke with Ellie at the end of July was and I had spoken to the board first before I spoke to Ellie but what seemingly no one had told Ellie was that she also had to engineer to deal with the water that was coming off the mountain so where she wants to have her site she has to have a civil engineer to deal with that and she has to have anything engineered to go under you know whatever's happening under the skate park itself so that area has to be engineered and that's the excavation so Ellie didn't realize out of that 50,000 was engineering and excavation so that was something that you know but we disagree on that we don't see why we have to have an engine we because we have to mitigate the water coming off the hill I remember Parker's initial plan that came to the board and we talked about drainage of that hill and that was going to be included in Parker's plan he came with AP&C and they range from I don't know like 8,120 something yeah and we had asked about drainage there and it was supposedly covered I would assume that if Parker's doing it then someone's doing the engineering right this difference between a professional engineer's stamp and a contractor that nobody's doing there's miles between those two absolutely so we're falling under the contractor's best guessing we're not falling under professional engineer that does a wildly different cost point we could make a a through drainage field so we won't even impact the water the water path there the big stone is going to be at least 12 inches I think it's going to be each rock water will pour right through that it will not affect our state water but it will enforce enough right through and not promote any worse condition in our re-existence but that's a decision for the board to make whether or not you bypass engineering and go into that go that way I'm not saying that's a wrong way Shane I'm just saying that's the option for the select board to determine what engineering requirements we have I'm not surprised obviously if you're going to build something it's got to be engineered it's going to be here so when we get the concrete proposal from Michael Parker we can bring it to you absolutely and I'm not saying Sean is totally right they can be dealt with there so that seems like that's what we need to do a concrete proposal from Michael with those issues resolved in them right? yes yes that's why I can't even get it but what what they're saying is we need it to get it in writing all that I have a question can we just assume that Michael Parker I mean my understanding is you have to have several different people come forward with bids and you choose that person based on the best bid I mean in my mind I would really want someone who has experienced those skate parts versus the lowest bid but I'm just really afraid that we are that we aren't being told until just recently when Trice was like okay you've got to have an engineer these specs made the cost of that can we just assume that we can go with Michael Parker or is that going to have something that's going to be stopped by that because I just want to make sure that that's not another pickup the other thing that I want to express is that I really would appreciate walking out of this meeting tonight with a date if this is not if we are not ready to move forward by this date then it's done because I think it's unfair that skaters put hours and hours and hours into re-engineering I think it's unfair for Ellie to be continually fighting and plugging and fighting and plugging and it's unfair to the tax payers who committed money I just would like to be able to say if this is a go or a done because I know these three boys sitting here tonight they don't want a $20,000 skatepark they've said if it's a $20,000 skatepark we don't want a skatepark at all it's either something that they can really enjoy doing and using there's nothing and I am speaking now not as a committee member so to have that noted I am speaking as a pool director that we are getting a lot of people and I think it ebbs and flows as people come to the facility and use the facility that people's interests are going to change focus are going to change families move in, families move out people that support have left people that have new ideas and I and I know that as a pool director I'm there every single day for eight weeks and I've heard so many different people say what else can we do is this a skatepark a done deal when I went out of the pool director and now I'm hearing all kinds of other people's opinions and other people's feelings and I just think that I've decided that we're going to move forward or we're going to decide that we're done we're done that's my one thing I just want to clear up this is not the select board's gig this is the rec committee the rec committee has been tasked with following out the master plan I mean all we're here for is a little guidance along you already got the approved funds that you're supposed to use and all we're doing is just checking in saying what's going on where we at we're not going to tell you you need to say by December 31st that it's go or not that's you guys going to figure this thing out like either set a date and say we're moving in a different direction because this whole thing is for the people not for the select board to decide we're just kind of saying hey you got funds here there's no action going on we're starting to get a little heat on our end and people saying what's going on I don't think any of us here want to make a decision to tell you what you're going to build their way I'm not comfortable with dropping it unless the voters vote it out you should speak to Dietru's question is the select you can if the select board will tell you right now you can use just Michael Parker because in the purchasing policy the select board has the right to soul source something so they could decide they have the ability to tell you tonight that whether or not they want more than one estimate or you can soul source it with Michael Parker and then you could also explain in that as far as as Shane was saying how you're going to deal with obviously it sounds like you got a lot of control how you're going to deal with the water because just because that was an issue it does have the right to tell you that Dietru so that you wouldn't have to worry about putting out 18 bits does anybody on the board have an issue with it being soul source I mean this is a design build so it's kind of hard to have someone design it and then fit it out so the board is finally going forward with soul source a design build and we also agree that the contractor is capable of dealing with any great issues you can begin with the contractor and I as a renewal hurdles the statement but in front of dealing with the drainage type issues that are considered wetland or anything I have no idea I have no idea if the rec park is I don't think it's, no it can't be a wetland no no and he's right no the state is not going to go into it because they've already gone through their zoning process so if that was going to be a consideration I think the zoning if that had been you know some sort of they would have dealt with it and certainly a contractor that knows what they're doing can certainly mitigate the water with drainage and all the proper you know ways to deal with it so that it either comes naturally goes through or it's dealt up less than we don't want and can't have is it coming off that and then us mitigating it onto somebody else's property that's not mitigation that's just pushing it off so we'd have to deal with it on our end but no Paul I can't think of anything that the state would and he's coming in with warranties on his work and more than anyone yeah I would think so he built the 111 he did a next down on the park that water issues that's not there when is the rec committee's next meeting September 4th September 4th yeah what time and we have a meeting on the 9th that fall on Monday why don't why don't we put you well I don't know this is what I'm thinking that we pass them with at their September 4th meeting of them setting their deadline it sounds like until October they want a deadline I mean can we have until October to come back to you I mean I think you can do just about anything I mean again all we're doing is we're just keepers of making sure that you know how much money you have to spend really that's you're going about the master plan other than that this is your guys deal you know your deadline the only thing you're going to have to start doing is answering to the public when things are not being built or made or whatever well I think we should keep pushing on and then we can ask the voters at town meeting and tell them how far we've come and where we are and get their get their get their feedback well it'd be a non-binding resolution the only thing they're going to vote up or down is money if you want a non-binding resolution which is just their opinion on whether or not you continue that's something else we'd have to craft it but if you want a self-imposed deadline we could put you on the first meeting in November and then you guys could come and by then you would have spoken to Mr. Parker and you could have decided at that point he probably has an idea how much it's going to cost you how big all that I'm assuming but if that's what you're asking they could put you on in beginning of November or later November whatever you want if that's when you as a committee are going to make a hard fast deadline that you want to come and tell the board about you can always let me know and you can certainly do that if you'd like to that's the board thing I think that the board and the civil engineer design anything for the public would be either wrong I think that a civil engineer ensures their work and oversees and sees where the water is flowing I understand contractors deal with it every day but when you need somebody to say okay this failed you design it the other thing that has not been mentioned tonight and I know it's been mentioned both select board town meeting and committees is the top of an in kind town donation did any of you recall that and Greg has said multiple times that the town would trough the town would donate up to a certain I don't remember what the certain dollar amount is but there's language somewhere in some I don't have it with me tonight but there's a there's a sheet that's plain as day and it says this is how much comes out of the fund this is how much in kind it is this is at that time it said Tony Hawk 25 and this and that but that's what we're sticking to that's the piece right there if a town in kind was 20 grand or something like that that's what it is and Michael Parker just said in his proposal he did the in kind too okay I think if you come back first meeting in November with a yay or nay that may resolve your issues with the town meeting but you'll not go back out again you may have those answers by now by then I think that's good you're going to be right with the little budget which is good which is good because we want to know that's going to be that's going to be the the time is that the answer of we've got a microphone on board do you agree to do this for this much money or is that a we figured out what our last name for we're hoping for what do you mention now you have all the parameters that you need your parameters that you have is the revenue piece that you have and then I think a year and a half ago we approved no more than 5,000 square feet those are your parameters if you want to build it tomorrow go for it I don't think we're we're not the the ball and chain you're down here this is just that we're here's your budget and you can't go over this square foot and everything else if Parker wants to come in here next week we can build it we're behind you we're kind of we're still in the very middle of building and then build them up again the only thing I'm just extremely worried about they all over again and we've gone from Parker to the other one who was to say that two people joined the board and you decided to do something else and here we have so that's my only we learned from our mistake about spine range I would just highly recommend that the committee keep working with the skateboard then but maybe start to resurrect some of these other pieces that go with the master plan and as I said I'm trying to get Dick Safe to let me know where the lines are and Tim said he got your map today, thank you he's been dealing with obviously other issues but he did say that he got it I finally talked to him I had been trying to get a hold of them and we had a grandchild born so I talked to him today and we appreciate you coming out especially after we were an hour late on the rest of the board members I mean again the board supports you guys and we're behind you we're just at this point being the big brother what's going on when are we going to see something but you guys are the I appreciate it and I understand because as a person that doesn't I'm not a skateboard person I'd rather have 10 sports I'd rather have 10 sports I would have built 10 sports three years ago if I had my way alright, thank you very much thank you the other one we had we had an appointment he's a no-show for the second time I addressed it last meeting and he went in for it you'd have to know what he was over so I would write down this to accept this moving on do you see letters for the bill of duty? I meant to do it I did not get a chance to put this sample text basically on our letterhead so if the board's obviously I'm assuming you're in support of this project if you're okay then I can Kelly or I can put this Kelly and I can put this on letterhead Kelly or I tomorrow and just have Chris sign it one time when he's swinging through I just want to make sure you guys are all okay with that you probably should because it's a letter of support so yeah I would say sure move to what letter Chris has just signed it I was a little confused but this right here is it's a draft but you're wanting to go with it that's what they're saying they said here's the sample text just threw me off when they said the property is a draft that's just the sample text and I'll sign it and I'll stop by and I'll stop by to sign that yeah whenever I don't do it tax day I'll get it done yeah so it was in your pocket excuse me I just said here's a request to stop water sewer services for this property uninhabitable for the foreseeable future so Tim Mills they did shut the water off so I'm not sure if you know obviously we shut the water off so I'm assuming we're just going to move them to vacancy rate but I just want to make sure A I want to let you know we did shut it off and B it is but since the entire for once yeah right no yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I think he's just waiting on that state's consistent with what we've done yeah okay do you need a motion on that no if you we can certainly move that to the next time I just gave it to you in a draft to read just because as I explained that when I got here you had a debit card and you can't have a debit card because it's not going through the proper policy process so it shouldn't have one so we want to get rid of it Pam and I talked to someone talk to the bank about it and they just happen to credit card has a thousand dollar this is just a policy I had written before but we can certainly push this to the next agenda since it's getting late if you wish I guess all I would say is if you have questions or comments on the draft if you don't want to do it tonight you could just email them to me I mean I didn't see anything I think it's a great idea and you should always have some sort of emergency revenue source if you need something yeah it's hard because not everybody you know we do try to set up as many accounts as we can but sometimes we just can't so and you know Deetree is one you know she uses it frequently because she's buying snacks so she might take the card and go to BJ's or you know things like that so it's um that sort of thing so okay except the the credit card policy has written who's that going to I'm sorry I didn't hear it it was the Lindley and Mo I'm sorry the Lindley is he is he is if you tie her well that's right okay we'll thank you for meeting minutes of the 24 which it says July 22nd yeah it is the 22nd the minute she made she wrote the wrong date it's July 22nd not 24 22nd yeah it was sorry but the minute the minutes are right yes okay so I would entertain a motion to accept the meeting minutes of the 22nd second oh I thought maybe Paul had changed all right all right go there awesome report now you know who called we have bad issues while we give a bad signal we hear the whole community I continue to have I continue to hear really good things about Oscar he's very approachable from what the business owners are saying not on physical evidence but like they call him he's there with a day to address the issue or sometimes that day so and he's been working on some of the higher level things in town that need to be done he's been doing some directed traffic enforcement which is nice first thought of and sound to Christian Hill which is nice because it's taken out by three different people so he has been doing some directed traffic patrol which is really nice and it's kind of nice to have Oscar with he has more than just a cost level clearance so he's able to do everything which is nice some of this stuff in here was an FYI but you do have you got to decide about your delegate designation for I guess you have a couple of days I wasn't sure if one of you wanted to go to if one of you is going to Town Fair at Killington then they usually during part of Town Fair they have annual business meeting if you want to send a delegate you don't have to if someone wants to go everybody just want to think about that and then maybe catch that one out we got some time right just trying to keep your list of board items up to date so I try to if you see something or I try to cross it off if we've done it I think the rest is just some FYI you've got a letter back from Mr. Wright and that's it any questions on the financials just let me know well it's early it's the first month it's the first month anything else just to I think I attended the run council on rural developments leadership summit today as representative of the town it's a great event I think that almost 500 people registered and it really has a gathering of other local speakers and have discussions with them and it was very inclusive and it was just a open market to have some great discussions so I just wanted to kind of let the board know that I was there representing us and that I would say it was a successful event and the government actually made the book at the end of the whole thing and sort of closed everything out was that the one we emailed about oh great yeah so that's great and I would I really I've gone the last few years but it seems like they are sort of allowing it to come on for a person to use for that person and I'd like to recommend to others for the few years that they did the same it's really worthwhile it was actually hard to decide what sessions to go through oh that's right this one was at BTC so they'll probably move it around but it's really and Vermont comes on role in the development it's been some really amazing things and it's a huge advocate for rural communities such as ours staying sustainable and being able to continue the lives of the people in Vermont to see and listen to what that is yeah just I think it was a really great thing that's great that's great I'm glad that you were able to go unfortunately the only session I had to go was not fruitful that's okay yeah we have some ideas whenever the craziness ends I definitely think we need to put economic development on the agenda because I have some ideas you have ideas conversations yeah that's great that's good it is all about growing the grand list which is what our focus needs to be for sure and in my opinion it has to be driven by our community more absolutely a lot of people come in and tell you what you should do but they don't know that if they have any information what I think of economic development and development we have we have such a small footprint but at the same time you'll have an opportunity to expand that footprint so can they talk about things like us that really struggle for that footprint and how we build that I mean this wasn't a technical insight I've been doing a number in the state and there are a number of ways to look at it and there are certainly towns that have done this without having the ability to expand and there are ways to expand without necessarily having to be centered on that and to in some ways start with more of a support of a greater economy and how do we do that on a citizen level supporting a greater economy to ultimately build everyone upside down which in turn the goal of this building the grand list so it's definitely something I've spent a lot of time researching and having those conversations and how do we get there and there are 100 or more and there's different ways for what fits for you and I did on the side note have a conversation for about an hour the other day with Lang Murphy who stopped by the office and this with him a little bit and that was interesting too and you know some interesting things about what they've done for like you and I talked about they did the Bethel business association or BDA and that was interesting too and there seems to be some interest in local with local business owners about starting something like that again and not just using not just downtown businesses but people who have businesses out on the outskirts or home businesses and then I was actually a developer and did some great economic development things in other towns and I actually just got the word about this northern borders grant which used to be specifically for towns bordering Canada and now it's spread and it's actually pretty interesting and I keep thinking about is there passing the building still utilized is there room there so there is some possible some money as well the CDE money for maybe south or somebody coming into town this is buildings that you can purchase and reestablish for low to moderate income which is nice too by dealing with some issues and kind of making the town as you come in you know more accurate and of course housing is a big thing in Vermont right now not just low income but moderate to like what they call worker housing so I think economic development is interesting and certainly a way to do that I'm not thinking long lines is getting a committee going for economic development making it a mixed people and certainly I'm just like were these on and do something like that but yeah I think people have it's amazing when you go these I had the opportunity to go Lindley and Lylee last year and they could kill them and some people were really thinking outside of the box and it's pretty interesting and the reality is our town is actually as an example as a place that is doing some creative economy endeavors and making some shifts in a really hard situation and so like today I had an employee come up to me and say I just heard all about such and such development and two or three other people were not able residents were actually speaking about working with them with the town or you know have it countered here and the impact was made that was sort of crying it's in that spot where it's ready to start making those efforts and yeah there's some interesting potential but it really comes down to what that was the greater community want to see happen Absolutely, I agree More on that Anything else? I'm moving to the chair