 Okay, good afternoon everyone. Welcome to Senate Education. It's Friday April 16th at 1 9 p.m We are going to start our work today by hearing from the State Board of Education or on the State Board of Education and from the Agency of Education senators will recall that we asked Secretary French and Mr. Carroll to have a conversation. There have been some requests around some language changes that the State Board is requesting and we thought good for the Agency and the State Board to have a conversation and then come back to us today with their agreements to see if we might move some language forward this year. We would likely attach any possible language changes to what is also likely to go back to the House in their H-101 which would also be the work that we worked on yesterday diversifying the State Board as well as a few other things that I'm considering sending back to them. We'll then hear the appropriations request from the State Colleges and that really will largely complete our work for the day. I do want to recognize and thank everybody for your work on S-114 yesterday afternoon. I think we're in a good place with regard to the Senate's position. The House is aware of the Senate's position and the bill is in their hands if you will and we will see what they end up sending back and as is always the case we have other options, other vehicles, other things that we can do to hopefully get to a good place. With that, Secretary of French, Mr. Carroll, thanks for joining us today. If you don't mind, I think we'll start with Mr. Carroll. If you want to reframe for us what you came in to talk to us about early on and we became sidetracked with other work around some of the requests for the State Board and then we'd like to hear from you, Secretary of French, on where you're at at this point. So floor is yours. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the committee. I'm John Carroll, Chair of the State Board. Secretary of French and I did indeed have a good conversation at your direction and request and reached an easy consensus on some fundamental language that addresses what some of us believe is a long-standing need to clarify the limits of the State Board's authority. You've heard from me before about this and I know some of you share this concern that in the past language in statute had been able to be used as a justification for the State Board frankly exceeding its authorities and presuming to take upon itself almost a kind of legislative authority and it was a simple matter of some pieces of language that had come to be back in 2012 back when there was such a kind of a tectonic shift in the relationship between the State Board and the Agency of Education and so in some ways this is simply corrective language that is really fundamental to clarifying and frankly limiting the authority of the State Board to make it very very very clear that any rulemaking by the State Board must be within the bounds of legislative intent and language. You would think that would be self-evident but the language had been had sort of crept in that obscured that clarity. The language that Secretary French and I have concurred on is taken from the legislation the bill drafted by Senate Education last year which was a much more comprehensive piece of legislation when it was 58 pages and it had several very ambitious goals all of which I think the Secretary and I still support in principle largely goals to clarify the roles of the Board to shift Board administrative duties from the Board to the Agency where they more appropriately belong and to allocate responsibility for rulemaking. Those latter parts are still in discussion but there's clear consensus between the Agency and the Board that this original core language limiting the authority of the State Board to rulemaking only that complies with or is within the ambit of legislation by the General Assembly. That's what is before you. You mentioned Senator Campion that it may go by way of S-101 and of course there had been talk about it being made part of H-122 the Boards and Commissions Bill but frankly we are agnostic about how what vehicle is employed for adopting these changes and I'm just delighted that Secretary French and I really see eye to eye on these changes. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Carroll. I believe but I may be wrong things are moving I believe H-122 is indeed in the House still I don't think they've sent that to us yet and what they have sent to us though is H-101 their literacy bill which I plan to do a strike all of which was the plan all along since the House incorporated some of their H-101 into S-114 and we plan on sending a few things back to them if you will this being one of them so appreciate the two of you getting to a spot this year and I suspect that there will be further conversations going forward so that some additional work might be addressed next January but in the meantime it looks like we have some a direction for Secretary French if you would. Yeah good afternoon Dan French Secretary of Education I don't have much more to add to chair Carroll's remarks other than to say I think you know it was fairly easy for us to come together on this you know drawing that line around what is foundational or fundamental I think is the word John used and I would agree there's still you know quite a bit of work to do but to have this foundational or fundamental language established would be useful to direct that that work and it does sort of get at some of the tensions that for my view remain unresolved as a result of Act 98 2012 so again happy to provide that language hopefully you find it useful to your work but it was fairly easy for us to come together on this great we'll likely have Mr. Demeray sort of take us through your language next but in the meantime any questions for Mr. Carroll or Secretary French centerline please I'm looking at the memo that came from Mr. Carroll and Secretary French and is that is that the proposal that we're okay yep yep all right yeah it looks pretty I'm not using that word it doesn't have as much complexity as it did earlier yes praise the lord other questions uh Secretary French and Mr. Carroll anybody else that you think we should hear from on this this seems like an agreement between that again the agency and the state board anybody else it comes to mind that might have conflict or concern Secretary French I don't I don't think so I think again this this fundamental sort of logic I think was always perhaps intended and that was more emphatically stated so I don't I don't think there's much here for anyone to really to disagree with or or see a way to embellish and I welcome centerline's observation of getting to simplicity on any any complex issue and I think we've tried to bring it to that place where this at least foundational piece is well established and that again will serve us well I think to do the the more complex work that's still in front of us right Mr. Demeray yes hello how are you how are you thanks uh Jim Day as you know sent uh some language I'm wondering if you might just take us through that a little bit um in the memo and just raise any concerns or or just walk us through exactly what it does sure yep so um the records are Jim Demeray let's console I'm looking at a memo from um Chair Carroll to you to to your committee um the April 16th of this year um it's proposed new revision to uh talk 16 section 164 which deals with the state board powers and duties um and what this does is um um well read through it says the same word shall there's a strike out which is the certain language is evaluate education policy proposals including timely evaluation of policies presented by the governor and the secretary that's it you can take it out so it says same word shall engage local school board members and the broader education community um and then the stroke language um this that says and establish an advanced education policy of the state of Vermont so getting away from policy uh really here is the thing that the goal so it reads down the board shall engage local school board members and the broader education community and consistent with the provisions of this tile its own rules and rules adopted by the secretary established and regularly update a long-term strategic vision for the delivery of educational services in Vermont advice the general assembly the governor and the secretary of education on high priority educational policies and issues as they arise and act in accordance with less than mandates including the adoption of rules and excuse personal assignments so I mean the language to say getting out of the policy area getting into more strategic vision areas and interface with the public um and then it goes on to revise some of the powers and duties so number four which reads currently renew a comma on agency budget prepared by the secretary for the governor that's being struck and then so the reason seven which deals with room making now we read adopt rules to carry out the powers and duties of the board as directed by the general assembly within the limits of list of intent um so those changes and from a new standpoint I see no issue with them and shimmery is is each 122 is that in the house right now is that there a bill that they're working on or is that I'm not following that bill um I can try finding the stats of it for you that's right I see it at the top of the testimony secretary French may know where that's uh where that lies at this point which part Mr. Chair you said AOE testimony H 122 the role of the state board yeah that's uh I think the chair carol's point that's how uh when we were tasked to sort of come together on this last week that was the vehicle and the trajectory that we were responding to uh last year's bill yeah well I'm not sure about that S 166 was last year's bill um but we were um and I agree wholeheartedly with chair carol we're agnostic as to the vehicle uh for this um we were just responding to a request last week and it was 122 that prompted us to come all come together on this last week great so S 122 um is the government operations bill um right it was they support these convictions and it has been passed by the house that's right so this is indeed language that uh I appreciate the the tickler it it is something that is in government operations right now senate government operations I don't believe she has voted it out but she may have so we can either attach it to the H 122 through government operations in the senate or we can we have our vehicle ourselves so but either way it looks like we're we're in good shape any other questions for our witnesses uh senator lions please just a quick question on number five is repealed is what is number five what was it what did it used to be that has to be repealed for a while okay that's what I was wondering okay so that a new repeal great okay