 I'm going to call to order the January 6th, 2020 meeting of the Arlington Redevelopment Board. Happy New Year, happy date, right? First up on our agenda this evening is EDR for Special Permit 3610. Apothka is back with us this evening. So gentlemen, if you could come up, reintroduce yourselves and walk us through what's taking place since our last meeting. Andrew, we might project some plans. That's right. Actually, we might all need those. Thank you. Hi, I'm Phil Silverman from Vicente Cedarburg. On behalf of Apothka, this is Joseph Lethach from, he is the CEO of the company. We had been responding back and forth to try to get you further information and respond to all of the inquiries. One of the things we didn't quite get a chance to respond to, we had done a traffic impact statement. There were some questions about that. And some of the staff wanted some figures put into that that they had come up with. And so we just got that today. And I'm going to give it to you. It's somewhat technical. And I'm going to try and simplify it. Unfortunately, a civil engineer at the last minute called had something of a family situation come up. So I'm going to try to avoid science and math as best I could. That's why I became a lawyer. But hopefully I can walk through it anyway and give you the best explanation I can. So if we can get to the document, as you know, this is a special permit. We're going to be doing a co-located medical and adult use, otherwise known as recreational dispensary at 1386 Mass Ave. And I'm just going to walk through the items that Aaron had sent over to us, which I think was summarizing what you were looking for at the last meeting. If we can get down to, not the statement, the other document, if we can, that would be great. There we go. Fantastic. If we get to exhibit A, that's great. Fantastic. So item one of what you would ask for is a sign plan that details the attachment method, the lighting, the sign materials, dimensions, et cetera. So what we're looking at here, that's the image there for the company. You'll see it's on the windows. We know that there is a provision that requires that this sign not exceed 25% of the window. It is a vinyl decal, and we will comply with the regulations regarding the 25% rule there. But that's what it would look like. Same exhibit. You had also asked for an improved building elevation, which shows storefront modifications and repair of modifications to the facade. This is, again, the elevation that we're providing now. One of the issues I know with the facade is there's some fading. We're going to be pressure washing the entire thing, so it will have a uniform look to it. And there's also been a change to the floor plan. Maybe you'll go over that in a bit. But as a result, there was a door that was right almost in the middle of that facility. It's now been moved over to the left, so there are two doors that you can see. You can kind of see. One has some writing underneath it. That's the one that's been moved, and there's one to the left of it, which is presently existing. Started to rupture. Sure. Is the plan for the Bank of America ATM still to be in this area? Yes. That vestibule? It is. And that vestibule will be cut off from the rest of the space. Okay. Okay. So the door to the ATM will be right next to the entry door for your office. Correct. And right now you can cross from the ATM vestibule into the storefront. That is what you want to know. All right. If we can go on to exhibit B now, the first page of it, that one right there. All right. Wonderful. So there was a request to prepare a plan that details the trench drains across the enter exit drive aisles and rain garden system in the landscaped area. Similarly, number four, you wanted us to investigate further improvement to the catch basins. The civil engineer explained to me that they looked into the rain garden concept. It wasn't doable with the amount of space that we had. And so what he did instead, there's going to be some regrading. And then the newest technology are particle separators with catch basin, great inlets. And you can see those. There's one here. And there's one here. That's what he's proposed to put in. And it's supposed to treat the water in the same way. It's supposed to have the same impact, as I understand it. Also with the grading, you'll notice that there's going to be a speed bump here and a speed bump there, which is going to keep the water from flowing off the property on that side. So that's the response on that particular issue. Small comment? Please. No, please. I'm okay with putting a speed bump there that does alleviate the problem of water shedding across the public sidewalk and so forth. And the only thing I'm asking now is, you have a curve along the back side there, where you have your garden, where it meets the river parking lot there. Okay. Could you put brakes in that curve? So you would, so it'd be like another option of water getting into the ground. The system you provided allows water to be filtered out, but it still goes back into the storm drains itself. It does not go back into the ground itself, okay? Okay. And what we're looking for is maybe recharged the surrounding grounds a little bit. Just give an attempt at it, okay? I mean, what you've done there is a good job of eliminating the sidewalk back there, putting a garden there. I'm just wondering if you could just go a little bit further and the water is shedding to the back there. In other words, it's going to be a natural gutter along there anyway. So are we talking up here, back here? Down here. Back here? Yeah. Okay. No, no. That right there, no? Up here? Yup, that part of the building. And I'm sorry, if you could. Everything is so draining this way. Yes. So if you just, there's a curve that goes right along here where you have your garden. Okay. You can put a couple of brakes right here that allows some water to get into that. Okay. Okay. We're not asking much, but what it doesn't allow you to do is, it allows it to have a possibility of recharging down there. Yup. And now add back ground water to your area there. Okay. Yeah, we'll do the best we can for that, obviously. And that was the only way I'd ask them to put the trench ring further up so that the water would be caught there. Then the trench ring would actually drain into that. Okay. Here it is. I will talk to the civil engineer. I don't see any reason why we wouldn't do it unless he explains there's a reason we can't, but it seems fine to me. If we can, we will. Yup. That's fine. Okay. Next, I think the next exhibit. Yeah, landscape plan. They wanted it improved and discussing some screening solutions. There is a fence now that's gonna be put in on the south and the eastern property lines. And we had some difficulty getting in touch with the tree warden. What we've put, you'll see a note. You can't really read it, I think, on this, but down here, what we basically said is, whatever the tree warden says we should plant, that's what we're gonna plant. Just to make it clear, we don't really have much of a problem. We just haven't been able to connect at this point. So that's not a problem at all. Well, we have been paying very much attention to the whole rat issue, and so we will make sure to have the current landscaping taken care of with that in mind to make sure that they don't just scatter anywhere. You mentioned the fence, does that go to the concern that one of the butters had of the rotted fence last time around? Yes, yes. And we'll work, I think the civil said he might have tried once to call and didn't get a call back, but maybe I'm sure we can have that discussion and we can work on that to make sure that it's acceptable and it works. She's in the back of a call on her when it's time for public comment. Hi. I didn't, I was not ignoring the phone call. I was just waiting for the follow-up meeting. Please, we'll work with you on that one. Yeah. What the committee was going to say. We'll make sure you get in touch. The most important thing to note is with all the work we have to do to increase the parking count on the site, the incremental pieces here, it doesn't add much to the cost, which is why it's easy for us to say yes to a lot of these things because if we can do it, it makes no sense not to do it. Sure. All right. So, next exhibit, you had asked to add some additional lighting for the enter and exit drive aisles. There are, we've added lights, wall packs here and here that are supposed to take care of that so that you have on the entry and the exit areas additional lighting which you have requested and those are the types of lights are detailed. That light just on the left there, KAXW is the wall pack that you'll see there. Those are also on the rear of the building and then you have two lights on poles in the rear of the parking lot there. Upper left is where that light is shown as well. So that's what we've done on the lighting. So on the photo metrics you got there, everything's about 4.5, right? I think that's right. It's all dark sky compliant. There's supposed to be, there may be a little spill over onto the sidewalk which nobody seemed to have a problem with last time. So that's it. As long as you're not spilling into the neighbor's yard so the house looks. Yep. Okay. You had asked for a lead checklist which is exhibit C. I think that's right there. Yeah, sorry for the size issue. I'm gonna go, now the next one was you wanted more of a narrative on how medical customers will be served versus recreational customers. And we provided you a narrative on how that works but I'll give you sort of some of the highlights. First of all, medical customers, to the extent that you are in a situation where they're, you have separate lines as they come into the facility for the two. And to the extent that you have a significant number of people, medical patients get priority in treatment. But beyond that, state regulations require that we have a separation. We can probably show you the floor plan at some point but there's, you basically have point of sale stations and then there's a separator between, there's one that's dedicated to medical and we have that on the floor plan there. Other than that, what's required is that it's, you're virtually separated. In other words, every product that we have in this facility is tracked by the inventory tracking system, it's called Biotrack and it's separated that way. This is medical, this is recreational. So that checkout, somebody is what they're getting when they come up and say, I need, this is for my, here's my medical card and I'm looking for this. They're getting the medical product. It happens to be the same product in most cases, okay? If, for example, you were to end up in a situation where we had a significant number of medical patients who took up all of the medical inventory, we could actually, through this inventory tracking system, we're allowed to switch over product, adult use recreational product into the medical program right at the point of sale. It's all done electronically. So we won't be in a situation where we run out of any kind of product for medical patients. Unless we also run out of it for recreational patients. If there's just none in the store, there's none in the store. So that's, beyond that, there's also a separate consultation room in the facility just like there is in the current medical facility where a patient wants to have a consultation. Private one. Yeah, they can have that, okay. The next two items were a transportation demand management plan and a queuing and parking management plan. So, and we've provided those plans here and I'll try to give you some of the highlights and I will say this as well about this. We did sit down with the police department and we're actually setting up a time for them to come up and see the Lynn operation because you really do sort of have to see how this works to understand why this is going to work. We've used numbers in trying to come up with the traffic impact statement where we say you're gonna have turnover every 15 minutes of patient. He's doing every seven minutes and in fact so are the rest of the facilities in Massachusetts. It's just much quicker is the way it's going. Can I ask just a point of question about the number of times where I believe the last time you were in, you were quoting four minutes? That's where I am, I like to say under seven. Okay, but now we're to 15 for this purpose. Yeah, for this purpose we've always been at 15 to 20 minutes in the documentation. We are hovering around that four minute mark. I like to say under seven just to give myself a little room. Okay, thank you. So, and what we've, what we agreed at the last meeting and again we'll sort of fine tune this as they see how this operation works is we will be doing a memorandum of understanding. I think it was Mr. Heim that suggested it. So that to the extent that we end up in a situation where there is just enormous demand that was unanticipated, we would have a protocol set up with the police chief where we, if we had to go to some other ways of lessening demand, that's what we're trying to do with this memorandum of understanding and saying whether it be that we need to put certain statements out on our website to discourage people from coming at certain times or even if we needed to do some appointments, that sort of thing. We have all of that in a memorandum of understanding with the police so that they can come to us and say we're seeing a problem here, we need to do something about it. We want it in writing, we want a procedure established. It just makes sense from everybody's perspective and the officers that we met with were comfortable with it. So that's what we're gonna try to develop but we want them to see what's going on in Lynn so that they can have an understanding of how this really works. And I think it's easier to develop the plan once they see that. And just to add to that, I think that the coordination between us and the RDPD is gonna be insanely valuable and important. When we were launching in Lynn, it wasn't just a silo that we launched and said that I've noticed. We coordinated that very closely with both state police and local Lynn police to make sure that we all came up with a game plan. We even picked our lunch date together and delayed it from three days to seven days because that's what they wanted. And so we're gonna do the same thing here. We're gonna work closely with PD and make sure that we're in constant communication with them leading up to the launch and post launch to make sure that they're comfortable with how everything's going. And also on busy days. So we could project April 20th, it will always be a busy day. That someday we'll be coordinating along with the PPD as well. Some of the other highlights of the plan, we are going to, we'll be putting this out on the website that there will be shuttle service that we'll have both from Arlington Center and Lexington Center so that if people wanna take advantage of it or in the event that, for example, we just get too many people and we have to turn people away, we can say to them, here's where you can go, you can take a shuttle from there, that's available to you. So we will have that. Again, that's part of this sort of opening plan for the first month of operation. Whether we need it beyond that, again, I think we'll deal with that in this memorandum of understanding how we can say, yeah, we need to go back to that. That possibility is also available there. Beyond that, most of what the plan is, it involves having parking attendants who are going to basically explain to people, yeah, there's a space for you, go ahead, making sure people aren't lingering in the lots, that sort of thing. And that's how basically all of the dispensaries in Massachusetts have been handling, especially the opening one month period where people sort of come out of curiosity and then don't quite know what to do. Once you establish the protocol, we found that everybody's doing it. And all of these opening day procedures that we're doing, they've been abandoned in just about every instance for all these other dispensaries because people figure it out. And as I think I mentioned the last time, there's just a lot more of these opening up now. So hopefully that's gonna take care of any demand issues. We also have a queuing system where to the extent that we have so many people that are in the facility, we're gonna queue people in the interior, there'll be no exterior queuing here. Once we get within five people of capacity, then what we go to is a system where we basically would be handing out, it's almost like a restaurant reservation system that says, here's give us your cell phone number and we will contact you when we're available, when you can come back and we would send people, again, your choice is to go, you can take the shuttle or you can do what you need to do, but we'll let you know when there's a space for you. Again, I don't really see based upon the turnaround times that that's gonna be necessary, but it is out there just in case there's this extremely high demand. Beyond that, there were a couple of other things that you mentioned. If we can go back to exhibit B, that first site plan, that's the one. Thank you. We did add bike racks. Yeah, they're there. They're right up here. There's two bike racks. You have the ability to have four bicycles there. We also, as I mentioned, we have the speed bumps, the one going out, one coming in up here. And there's also pedestrian alert signs. There's one here on the building and there's another one right over here. These are flashing. I think there's a laser sensor when the car comes by. They will flash so that any pedestrians out there see that there's an alert, that there's a car coming. So those are some of the highlights of the plans that we've done. The other thing that you had mentioned, this traffic impact statement, and as I mentioned, I just gave you something I don't expect you to read about. I'm gonna try and hit the details, the highlights. There were some questions raised about it. I think the staff wanted us to use some other estimates other than the ITE estimates that we had been using. And so what we tried to do that and summarizing it, the civil engineer wrote this out to me. You do see additional vehicles at this site from its present use. It's approximately 142 more on a daily basis, 17 more at the AM peak hour, 30 more at the PM peak hour, and about 150 more on a Saturday. What he was explaining to me is that the actual counts performed by the Arlington Traffic Advisory Committee indicate 666 vehicles pass the site in the peak hour. And then he explained that typically a two-way roadway will handle 3,200 passenger cars. That's the roadway capacity. So what they do to determine level of service, you take the number of vehicles in the peak hour, 666, divide by the capacity, 3,200, and you get a ratio that determines level of service. The existing ratio right now is 20.8%. It's gonna go up to 21.7%. The typical range for a two-lane highway segment is between 16 to 32% for a level of service C. So we're right in the middle of it. We're not even on the upper boundary, and it's barely going up less than 1%. So the traffic conditions, what he's saying is it's not going to be adversely affected by the use. And so that summarizes that. You're welcome to read through it, but we're open to any questions, comments, anything else? Let's start down at the other end of the table, Rachel. While we're on parking, I just have two parking questions. One, I think you had addressed, I believe in the materials you mentioned that you had agreed that at no time there would be any double parking on that stab, which was a question that we had had previously. I mean, it speaks to the specifics around drop-offs and pickups, but I just wanted to confirm if that was the case. Okay. And then I saw a mention about Uber and Lyft drop-offs and that you would be routing them through the parking areas. Yeah. Can you just speak a little bit to how that will be? There's just going to be a designated area. And again, the attendants will know where that is, and so they can direct the car to that area for drop-offs. So if they notice somebody idling out front, will they approach them? How are we doing that? Yeah, I mean, the idea is that we're trying to, we're trying to have these people out so they're seeing what's going on on Mass Ave where if somebody's standing, especially at that entrance, we'd rather they come in and drive through, if anything else, if they want to ask a question or something, so that's what they would be doing. Okay. So if somebody's waiting for an Uber or Lyft, you're going to direct them to that area by the transformer. Is that where you're going to have them wait to pick up or on the other side? Which area? By the transformer on the left-hand side of the building, this one? No, well on the sidewalk there, but yeah. Oh yeah, so they're becoming here. Ideally the Uber Lyft would come in through here, quickly pick them up and be off. Okay. Can we go back to the side, the new, right there? Sure. So I just wanted some more detail here. This isn't quite as much detail as I was hoping to see quite frankly. I see that you've moved the entrance before it was over, I think, where the sign is now. You had mentioned before that there was some existing wood on the facade that you were going to be removing or replacing or? Repainting and making it look all freshening and also pressure washing the rest of the building. So I think one of the things that isn't here, there's no coloration of anything that you're planning to do, so if you're going to paint it, we want to know what you're painting it. And the same thing with the logo. I'm actually disappointed to see that before when we spoke you would talk about this being a, I think it was a laser jet metal that was backlit and now this is a vinyl and I knew the vinyl's prohibited from being a sign that you just applied to the face of the building. So I'm a bit concerned about the vinyl. I don't think that it's an appropriate sign. So we, regularly, we have to put vinyl on all windows? I understand that something else will come too, but I'm talking about the building sign in itself because there is an actual sign fan on this building that currently is used for signage that was meant for signage for this building as well as the wall if you wanted to employ a wall sign. And- Are you referring to that area above the windows? Is that- Correct. Okay. Which is where currently both Swiftie as well as, it's one of the signs, which is right here on the photo that I'll refer you to that it is a signed band. And I don't think that vinyl is an appropriate signage type that we want to be encouraging in the heights and or quite frankly anywhere in Arlington. And I encourage you to look at the signed band and the wall and something more akin to what you were proposing previously as opposed to this signage. That's fine. I'm fine saying yes to that right now. Okay. That's what I prefer. We thought this would be better received, but yeah, I actually prefer the- I mean, I'll leave that to my other colleagues to speak to. Totally agree with your question. Perfect. Yeah. Vinyl sign is totally out of character of all the rest of signs in the heights there. If you can put your sign that looks more like a typical sign that you find in your neighborhood, in the areas that she has mentioned, it would be much better. Absolutely. And it's somewhat backlit, it's metal, it's a little more traditional signage. Yes, you do have a vinyl requirement of screening the interior, but that just could be a frosting or a pattern or whatever you guys choose to- I actually prefer the steel cut sign, so I thought that this was going to be preferred, but yes, I'm not happy with the steel cut sign. Okay, great. So you want to say again a detail on what size and where exactly you're going to put that. Okay. And then going back to the discussion about the vinyl, I understand that you need to obscure the view into the sales area. And then obviously, I believe from the most recent plan, the break room is on the right-hand side as we're looking at this facade. I'm concerned about just using a flat, opaque, white, black, whatever color you're going to use for your vinyl. I think that again, this is an area where we're trying to continue to encourage more traffic, foot traffic, pedestrian traffic, and for people to really think about the facades of their retail locations. And I encourage you to look at a vinyl that's either you're going to use vinyl to obscure to look at either a pattern or some sort of an artistic, I know that you can't show your product or talk specifically about what you're doing, but there are plenty of graphic options that are not just a plain, flat, opaque, single color that's going to enhance the block as opposed to make it look like something is closed. And there are other options for you to look at and a lot of other dispensaries have been very creative with what they're able to do to still contribute to the graphic nature of the block. So I encourage you to do that as well. And I think we just want to see what you're looking at because that is part of the facade. Sure, and one of my goals also with whatever we do put on the windows is to let in as much light as possible. So I want on your side a lot of light in there. I love natural light. I think that's wonderful. And again, to go back to the lead checklist, that kind of daylighting is something that's very important. So again, I think it would be helpful for us to understand again with that in mind. What you're thinking about doing. One important thing also is for these windows up here, there we don't have to obscure, so there there will be nothing. Perfect. Just a lot of natural light. Again, thinking about the pedestrian character as you're walking like that, it's a little deadly again when we're investing in the Wellington Heights Portionation Plant. There's a lot of interest in really improving the reason for it to work. Sure, and I can tell you that as a business owner, I would want to look as nice as possible. You have all these restrictions, but I do want to be as nice as when you can make it. Okay, great. And then just while we're on signage, at the last meeting we talked about the fact that you were going to sign that it was apotheca only parking behind. Do you have, I think we need to get again, a signed detail for that as well. Okay. Just for your package. All right, Jean. That's it. I'll start with the front. So the two doors for the ATM and for your facility to be next to each other. Yes. How does one walk up and identify which one is which one? We will have our own staff outside the door. One of ours. No sign. And, yeah, our sign will be above, I would imagine the steel cut sign will put it right above the door. All right, so that's a little thing I think you would want to see there what that would look like. I don't recall there being a street number on the building. Do you know if there is a number on the building, too? Yeah, we could pull one in. That's easy enough. So you have a different interior. We did, we did review them before. Correct. Can you walk us through how somebody comes in, goes through the facility? Absolutely. Where they queue up inside if there's a line. Absolutely. So, just the overall flow first is in to the dispensary and then exit through here. So this will be an exit only door. Like that's a one-way traffic. That's the same street. Yeah, so that's the same as before. Here you have the point of sale counters. This is the medical only one. There's actually a column right here. That's the separator. Yeah, so the column acts as a natural separator for us, which is nice. Backage, patient consultation room. And here is the vault room and employee break room. And here's the receptionist. So basically, when a customer comes in, we have stanchions in here to queue them. So it's just a simple queuing system if we're using stanchions like in an airport. So you get checked in here. The process to check a customer in takes about five seconds. We have a visual check and then a secondary machine check on the ID. And then they come into the actual dispensing floor. In here, you have different display cases. We'll play around with the actual queuing system, but basically, once you finish looking at the displays, where all the product is sealed locked and secured to the displays, then there's another stanchion queuing system that will take them to the registers. And then they leave. Other than the stanchions inside the entrances, there any physical separation now between the entryway and the display area? Yeah, so this right here is a wall. So I'm not clear on the flow then. When you come in, you check in here, and then you're locked into the dispensary car here. And then if you wanted to go into the patient consultation room or go back here, you're entering through back here. This is separated from the entryway. So where is the entrance through that wall that separates it? It's not clear to me from that drawing. I don't see the actual door here. I'm sorry. The dash find you referred to, I think it's the skylight involved. Yeah. I'm going to have to get you a better answer on something. We'll have to. Yeah. There is a wall that's going in here, though, that would be blocking access. Yeah, I don't see the actual door here, so I apologize for that. Is that a requirement? Because in the original design, you had kind of a chicane and a second door, so it was kind of like a Sally port set up. So it is a requirement. Basically, when someone locks in from here, before they're allowed into this area, they have to be checked. And so that has to be a physical separation from here to here. That's a requirement. We'll revise and show you. How many people can be queued up in that space between the entrance door and the checking test? Here we could fit about 15 people. 15? Yeah. And on the floor, a lot more. Because there's the displays of our customers like their browser, their ledger, and then there'll be the queue line into the actual POS. And then we also have order ahead using a app comedy fleet. So people are able to also order ahead and just quickly go pick up the product we need. I was happy to see the outdoor bicycle rack. So I think you take a look at what our bicycle guidelines are for what would be appropriate racks and what would be inappropriate racks to use. Do you have any indoor bicycle storage? We were going to be putting into the break room. So within the break room, we'll have two bicycle capacity. That'd be good. But again, we need to see that and see what that is actually going to be for the bicycles there. It's a little hard for me to comment on the traffic impact statement since we just got it a little while ago. And I was trying to thumb through it but not and pay attention at the same time, which is tough to do. Can you just talk a little bit about all of the facilities in Massachusetts which have the highest number of people coming in each hour? And is that the number that's being used in this traffic study? It's not. The highest is Brookline, NETA. We do give you the numbers in here. And the reason it's the highest is because it's the only recreational place in Boston. And that's who it's serving right now is the entirety of Boston. What we did, I think, is choose something. It's something between that. And there was a group called SPAC Consulting, which your staff told us used those because they're a little higher than ITE. So we chose something in between. I think we used something in between SPAC Consulting in that Brookline facility. There's no place in America that's seen what that Brookline facility is seeing. And so we just can't assume that that's what you're going to see here. It's an anomaly across the entire country. Brookline facility is also three times the size of that footprint here. It is bigger, although it has no parking. I think it has four spaces. Yeah, that's right. No, but I'm talking about the sales floor itself. Yes. It's quite, quite large, right? Yes. It's the former Brookline Savings and Lones Bank building. Yeah, on that bank. Yeah, you know, how many square feet are you here? About 1,800. Yeah, it's probably 600, 700 square feet more. Only twice. What's that? Well, twice. Less than twice because they're a little over 2,000. Yeah, it's bigger. I just remember seeing that bank being. They have a lot of back office areas. Really, really big. Well, the outside, if you look at the outside, but the sales floor itself is not the entirety. Like our building in Lynn, for example, is a 4,600 square foot building. Our actual dispensing floor is like 1,200 feet of that. What concerns me about not using the Brookline number is that you may end up, and we may end up with an undercount, because this would be the first facility west of Boston, probably get people coming, I would guess, and probably hope they will, for not only Arlington, Lexington, and Belmont, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And I think it's a mistake. I mean, it's fine if you want to use these numbers, but I think you need to run a second set of numbers, which are the Brookline numbers, so we can see if you end up at the Brookline numbers, here's what it's going to be, and here's what you're going to do. If these other numbers ain't going to end up right, here's what it is, and here's what you're going to do. So I would like to see you just run again. I hear you, and we weren't trying to hide it. That's why we did put it in there. I think, obviously, if you end up in that situation with a Brookline scenario, you're going to have to, that's when we're talking about this memorandum of understanding. We're going to have to go to some sort of a different system than just what we have here. I want to see what that is before I would take a vote on your permit, and the impact with the Brookline numbers on the intersection of Mass Ave and Park Avenue, and the impact on pole review road. I don't know if you put that in here for the current numbers, but I would really like it to be in here for both sets of numbers, so we can take a look at two options here. So you do have those Salem and Brookline averaged, correct, together, and then separately, your lending facility against the other. I think it is, using an average, maybe. I don't know, I'd be more appropriate. I don't know, it's the problem. I mean, I would like to see the future up on them, so we get an idea about the potential worst case. Yeah, what's the worst case? And what would happen if we had the worst case, and then what you would do if you had that for some period of time? And if there is going to be a memorandum of understanding, it would be helpful for us to know what's going to be in that and what it's going to be like. Yeah, I mean, I can't say more about the traffic study because I obviously have time to read through the entire study. I guess the other, and this is more like an observation, I don't know about it a few times. I think it's going to be very difficult for the cars to exit the parking lot because it's sort of a straight out memorandum, they have to make a very, very right turn. And there's parking space right up against the area where the driveway is. And I wondered if you'd talk to the town about getting that process to move to no parking there. I think it would be a lot easier for people to exit the parking lot if that space weren't there. So you may take a look at that. You may not agree with me, but when I've gone by, I thought that would help a lot with traffic. I don't think we have a problem with that. The question would be if. Well, talk to the town about the possibility of doing that and see what they think about it. I guess the other thing I'll say about traffic, I think it's fair to say that there's a lot of traffic up and down Mass Ave in Arlington. So wherever a facility is going to be located, there's going to be traffic. And traffic's going to have to be dealt with. But my concern is at this specific location, with the traffic counts, with the street behind, with the parking, we need to get very specific and use the Brookline number. So we have the worst case scenario possibility as well as what you consider the more likely possibility. So we can compare the two. And I'm happy to give you the exact numbers. I guess what my concern is is that we're sort of looking at, we're looking at two things in a vacuum here. We're looking at it as though there will never be another dispensary in Arlington and there will never be another dispensary in Boston, both of which I think aren't the case. So I'll give you the numbers and we can try to do that. But I do want everybody to understand. We are, within a year, you're going to see twice the number of dispensaries in the state than you have right now. So for what? You may be dealing with it for a year. We may be dealing with it for a year and we need to know what that's going to be like. No question. We're going to solve the potentials. Yes, thank you. So those are my comments. Sure. David. I appreciate the inclusion of bike parking just to be more specific. If you haven't already looked at the town's new bicycle parking guide for the specifics of preferred bike racks and how and where to install them, I highly recommend that. And if that isn't enough guidance, then the planning department would be happy to further assist you. I think if it's at all possible, you should try to provide more exterior bike parking beyond the two racks that you were proposing. If there's space for it, I realize there aren't a lot of options around the property and that's a pretty good location where you've got them cited. But if there is space to use a higher density solution there, that would be good because that would allow for more bicycle routes. Sure. I was happy to see in your TDM plan the proposal to do a T-pass subsidy and appreciate that. Also, with the addition of the break room, you're able to provide lochers. And it looked to me on the plan. There was also a place to wash up in there. Yeah, there's already plumbing into that space. So a sink and a little cabinet, fridge, and microwave. For our employees. I mean, ideally, a shower would be nice, but again. We won't be able to pull that off. I'm sorry. Space is limited. Space is limited. But having been a bike commuter in the summer and worked in an office without a shower, you have to get creative. We could call us some Cologne profanities. But I do like the other aspects of the TDM plan, informing employees of the options, providing information to customers about transportation options. I realize you're extremely limited in the amount of communication you can do about the business. But definitely appreciate, to the extent that you are able, making transportation information very prominent and widely available to the customer so that they understand they don't have to drive there. The three avenues that we use will be able to communicate. Oh, four, really. It's our own website. We have an email list that has continued to grow every single month. We are able to put that information on the weekly app, which is about the Spencer finding tool. And on our Google maps listing will be coming out there as well. Those are the four key ways that we communicate. One thing I might ask you to add, because I don't think it was in here, is actually doing some monitoring and data collection on how people actually are getting to the dispensary, both employees and customers. And perhaps reporting that to the town regularly, perhaps annually, if that's appropriate. Yeah, we do annual reports to the town. Yeah, so that could just be included in the report. Yeah, we'll pick kind of like a TV sweeps week and do statistical analysis during that period. Great. Well, employees are easier. Employees are easier because we just have to ask them, hey, how are you getting here? Yeah. With customers, we'll be able to obviously model that out. And if we can include it in our annual reports. OK. Oh, you look. I had one thing I meant to ask. The material talked about the employees being able to park in the sunrise. The parking lot, are you going to have a memorandum of? Understand your agreement with them? Something in writing that will be able to see that memorializes that? That's already part of a separate environment, just like the special permit with sunrise as employee parking for people in the district. That's what you're talking about. So that already exists since sunrise will be required. That is already required. OK, thank you. Well, that's for all businesses in the business district? Technically, yes. Actually, one of the points that I wanted to make and I'll just jump in here is how you plan to handle any parking, any of your customers' parking in the business of our lots. I think there's some concern about those business owners that your customers are going to be taking up their spots. They want to be sure that that's not happening and how do you plan to enforce that? So we'll have our parking tenants watching those kinds of things. As customers leave, we can see where they're physically going. And if there's any issues, one call away, one email away, one text away. And I'll have my security staff respond. OK. I think the issue is when they park, not when they're leaving. We want to make sure that. Well, the important thing is we catch it when it's happening and we continuously inform our customers not to do it. And that's also going to be one of the things that could be included in that first intake process, just like don't park on Paul Revere. Yeah, don't park on Paul Revere, don't park in that. Exactly. In every spot. OK. Just following up on something Jean asked about, which is the poor sight lines for drivers exiting parking lot. While you're thinking about how to deal with that, I think longer term, it would be good to monitor how people are doing, being able to get out of the lot. And make right turns, and perhaps even more difficult left turns. And just get a sense of if it's problematic. And then at some future time, if it turns out that it is very difficult to get out of there, there may have to be some future discussion of finding a solution to that problem. But it would be good among the other data points that you're collecting just to also monitor that. Yep. Jenny, you have a point to make about that. Just on the point of potentially parking in other people's private lots, the Netta facility actually provides those sandwich boards and puts them out throughout along Boylston Street and in the neighborhood to make it clear that there's no public consumption and also no public parking, or any parking related facilities, so would you consider something along those lines? Oh, absolutely. Similarly, because I think that that would be an effective call to people to not do those things. Yeah, if we're allowed to put those out in those areas. Well, let's stick to the point, yeah. Put that on at least there, Robert. Yeah, we'll be able to do that. We'll be interested in that, but I would think they would. Sure. Public consumption is the other part to that message. I will look closely at the additional traffic information, but of course I haven't had a chance to dig into it. Sure. Ken? Well, thank you for addressing our concerns about site drainage. Appreciate that. And also the site lighting, increasing the lighting back there and echo my concerns as Rachel has with the signage. We're not going to go back. Yeah. If we address that, that'd be great. And then having an update floor plan where there shows the interior vestibule that you talked about, showing more of the controls, while you do that also. I know it's not what you're meant to, but we just mentioned, I think it's a nice start, is gender neutral bathrooms. We had talked about it last time, saying they just say toilet room, call it a day. It's a single occupancy, so it makes all the sense in the world not the limit. And then I just want to space a little bit on your breakroom. Does that need to be fully screened? Yes. It still does. OK, never mind. I would very much like for it to be open as well. No, I didn't say open, open, but I'm saying maybe it's going to filter us down a little bit where it opens up more where you actually can see in and out a little bit, you know, just to line it up a little bit, you know? Believe me, I wish. Right now, we're adding a new breakroom in our cultivation facility, and it's an interior breakroom. And one entire wall is made into a window into the rest of the facility, just so it seems bigger. I would much rather have that if I would be allowed, but I'm not. Then I'll just leave it. I don't have the same concerns with pulling out as much, because I've looked at that before when I was doing my survey thing. The buses seem to come in and out there, and oftentimes, they don't have any issues with traffic. Maybe because there's a huge yellow bus, and they get out of their way. But I see them coming and going, not really an issue with that. They're just going around across the street. So I don't know. Well, there's also parking prohibited in front of me. Yeah, I'm just talking about just coming out and then emerging with traffic. This seems like there's no, there doesn't seem to be an issue. Yeah, there may not be from a traffic perspective, but the sight line issue is different to the buses, because they're up above, and there's no parking right in front of the busway anyway. Just want to give a different point of view as well. And then, is there any way of adding a little more lighting to the front to make it a little warmer? I mean, when you look at this concrete building, it's concrete and glass. It's just the style it was back then. And if you look at the nature of the rest of the heights, it's more bricky, storefront, and it's a little warmer. You don't show any vegetation up front, right? No, we don't have any space on the property for that. So, I don't know, and you're painting everything just solid colors. There's no natural wood, or you apply some wood trim. Is there something to warm it up a little bit, just to give it a little? There is that wood trim. It just looks super faded, so we want to go back to what that original color looked like on it. All right. So you're going to paint it a brown, or are you going to stain it? Stain it, I think, is what the construction guy wants to do. To Ken's point, I think that's just what we would want to see, what you're proposing. And I think that's a good choice to go with the scene. It's just a warm up, it looks like a prison or something. Concrete and glass. A little former Soviet Union. And it was a style back then. It was definitely a style back in the 60s. But if we just warm it up a little bit, I think it'd be much appreciative. All right. And since we're all in that for a minute. I think most of my concerns were answered. So I don't see anyone else has anything. I'll open it up to public comment. I do appreciate you providing everything that you did provide. And we'll give you another list of hallmarks to come back with. Show me a few more items here. I will open it up for other commentators at hand. I'll call on you if you need an address and address your comments if they're too hard. If I don't have the applicant answer the question, or the department answer the question, I will do so. I wish to speak. Seeing none, I'll turn it back to the board. It looks like it has. Sorry. Sorry. Go ahead. I missed the beginning part, so I don't know if there was a follow-up in terms of rat management and pest management. Yeah, can you just take the game and ask? Oh, sure. That's just a follow-up. 7-1, Paul, right there. Thank you. Right behind it. Go ahead. So yeah, that is something I actually brought up. We're going to be working with an extermination company to make sure that before we take out anything there, that gets taken care of because I wouldn't want any rats running around either. So we got you covered. Anyone else wish to speak? Yes, ma'am? Laura Larkin, 70 Paul Revere Road, and this is a question more for the town. And I'm wondering if it's possible for you to do a count of what the traffic currently is on Paul Revere and then be able to compare that to after the facility opens? Do we have those on us? I don't think we have number score Paul Revere Road, but I can check on that and report back to the board. And then the after, of course. That's a different kind of change. If anyone else wishes to speak, I think I'll close public comment for now. You can always submit questions, comments, concerns, email to the board, to the staff. And then I'll turn it to you, folks. When do you think you would be ready to come back before us? There's a lot here. Isn't there one show called Miss? Whatever is our next actual meeting would be the 27th? OK. January 27th. That's great. So I take a motion to continue this here into January 27th. So push it. Thank you. All in favor. Aye. Aye. OK. So work with staff. Yeah, that's everything in advance. Thank you very much. Right. Thank you. Thank you. Have a good year. Have a good year. Have a good year. Play a year, move on, hand it over to Jenny to discuss potential zoning by law amendments carrying on from December 2nd. And this is really just a continuation of that conversation. I don't have anything new to provide. I provided a copy of my memo, which is the same memo that we were discussing. I did not provide the other supplemental materials that I added to the agenda the night that we first talked about them. But if you wish to refer back to them, two of them were related to the stormwater bylaw. And then the other one was from a resident, Chris the Ready, who shared a couple of ideas, a few ideas, proposed amendments. So I think that there are probably, you wanted to continue this conversation to talk about the things that this board wishes to pursue. There might be other folks in the room who have things to add. But either residents are considering pursuing or they may ask the board to reconsider certain items. So that's all that I wanted to offer for this evening. And of course, you have another meeting on the 27th where you can continue this conversation and hopefully use that evening to finalize and vote on what you would like to file officially with the warrant. And that would be the warrant article language that we would then submit by the 31st, which is the deadline. So glad to take any questions. Or if you want to continue the conversation that you started on the second, then we can go from there. I'll continue the question. I know there's some people here that wish to speak. In the public, I'll give them an opportunity to do so. Are there any comments from the members of the board on what we've seen already? I think the idea is to keep having discussions in the various subcommittees. We have our meeting with the select board next week, which is another agenda item this evening, where we'll start to talk about future town meeting, zoning bylaw amendments, which will largely revolve around the topic of housing. It sort of remains to be seen where that's going to go, depending on how next week's conversation goes. But that will be for spring 2020 town meeting. It'll be fall 2020 special. If it won't happen, it's the earliest, more likely, out into 2021, so we can get the proper public participation and community buy-in and all of those things that are coming up. I think our April town meeting is going to be relatively quiet, sort of by intention. I mean, basically, if you go back to my memo, the last paragraph or the items that we, I think, most recently discussed, and relate to zoning amendments. He doesn't run us through those, will he? I had a question about, if you could run us through the 8.2. I think it was 8.2.2. 8.2.2. And basically, it's just to update what is technically was the two-year period in special permits being valid is now a three-year period. So it's really just an amendment to make sure that it's in compliance with state law and allowing that two-year to be three years. The other one was adding a definition of apartment conversion, which was not done during the recadification effort, but came up. We also talked about the landscaped and usable open space calculation to make sure it's clear that it's relative to the GFA gross floor area, which had been worded slightly differently and referenced slightly differently in the prior version of the zoning bylaw when it was recodified. We don't have that specific reference in the bylaw. So putting that back that way, the 5.2.2 is essentially talking about what is allowed or not allowed. Currently, the use table doesn't exactly say no, it is or is not allowed. So adding some things to that table as well in all of the related sections. Some administrative corrections with regard to, obviously, you have a select board, not a board of selection anymore. There's an August date, but without the actual day noted. It says August and then the year. We need to have the date. We have the date correcting the citations to Medical Marijuana, which we have an incorrect citation in there. And then matching the new half story definition correctly in a separate section under how we do essentially a plan review and also correcting a citation to regulation in the billboard definition. So those are basically the things that in summary we talked about the last time. And then I mentioned in my memo a number of other initiatives and efforts that will eventually lead to potential zoning amendments, but not until a future town meeting. The last thing that I noted and that you expressed an interest in was the Municipal Affordable Housing Trust Fund, which wouldn't be through this board, but would go to the select board, but that you are eventually interested in seeing what that will look like. I don't think there was anything else. Any questions? Go ahead, David. I had a couple of questions. I've seen some references that there is some discussion going on, although I wasn't clear whether it was just among the citizens, grouper, and involved the town on exploring the issue of prohibiting new gas connections. Fossil fuel. Yeah. And do you have an update on that? Yes, my update on that is that the Clean Energy Future Committee had been discussing this as a town committee, but also Sustainable Arlington and Mothers Outfront have also been talking about it separately and also sometimes together. So we had a follow-up from the Clean Energy Future Committee meeting that my staff will be and actually already has a handle on all of the language that was proposed for the Brookline Special Town meeting this fall, and that a subgroup from the Clean Energy Future Committee with the staff, as well as representatives from Mothers Outfront and Sustainable Arlington will be meeting to review those things and then go back to the Clean Energy Future Committee to discuss it again so that there can be something filed for town meeting in the spring. That's where we're at right now. We don't have the exact language. We don't have any specifics discussed. Brookline went through a whole process that included a number of exemptions to make it clear that it wasn't completely prohibitive but also to have a waiver process. And so I think that the same kind of thing will be talked about and explored here as it's being developed. And I'm certain that this board will be talking with that group of people once it's further evolved. And we'll just note that Gene was an attendee at that meeting in the audience at the Clean Energy Future Committee. And so that that's just a big thing. And the committee's meeting later this month, I've forgotten the exact date. They're now meeting. But this is the agenda item. Yeah, they're now going to meet on the 28th, I believe. Or the 29th, I apologize. Yeah, they had to move their meeting to a different date. And are they also discussing one of the other things you had brought up at a previous meeting, Gene, about potentially requiring green roofs or solarization? The water tower. Well, I've mentioned that to them and they haven't seemed to be as responsive. I'm intending to email Ken Pruitt and ask him again if he'll add that to the agenda as another item. Okay. I believe they talked about it actually at that meeting quite a bit. And what they talked about was they're going to further vet that as part of their net zero planning process. And there were some people who were very interested in what was being discussed. It actually came up at the very end of the meeting when it was raised. So I think that there's some opportunity there. But I think they also want to look at it as part of their broader net zero planning process. I thought not to get into this too much. I thought there was a little bit of confusion between requiring actual solar on certain commercial buildings and just making them solar-ready. And I don't think that distinction got sort of sorted out at the meeting. It wasn't an official agenda item. It was just raised as an idea at the end of the meeting. So I think some follow-up was probably needed to further discuss that. It changes on Brookline, right? Brookline, yeah. Those changes that were made are now being discussed in the AG's office for the presidency or? They were submitted to the Attorney General's office. Yes. Yeah, they're ready now. I thought we had talked about waiting to see what that came up to. The choice is that we're going to file something and that during that process we will be able to see what happens. A number of other municipalities are very interested in the same by-law and actually mass clean energy. Clean, it doesn't sound right. Climate Action Network, M-CAN. M-CAN. Mass Climate Action Network has been gathering people throughout the Commonwealth to learn more about this. They're having a meeting about it on January 12th, which will be broadcast. And so I think there's a lot of opportunities to learn more about what this could be and what the next steps are for municipalities. I'm very glad that this discussion is ongoing. There was definitely both interest and confusion out in the public from what I saw about exactly what's being discussed and what the potential implications are for both new construction and existing homeowners. And somebody, I forget their name, but they seem very involved in the discussions, posted some very detailed information on the economics of under what circumstances it might make sense to retrofit existing properties for electric-based heating instead of fossil fuel heating. And I found that extremely helpful as someone who owns an older home with gas heating in understanding whether it made economic sense and what the financial implications of making that conversion might be for me as a homeowner. So it would be good to make sure that that kind of information is easy to find and is getting out to the public. The proposal that I think they're talking about, I understand it correctly, is for new construction and for substantial renovation, not just for retrofit. But I think there was concern about whether it would affect existing homes. But for those of us who might be interested in doing it anyway, understanding the economics of it is complicated. So a couple of other things. I did take note of Steve Revelax's memo regarding the open space definitions. And I thought it was an interesting idea to distinguish between public open space and private open space. And I wasn't sure whether anyone else had thought about that at all. And had any thoughts on the implications of it. Because I know it is something that I think has been confusing in discussions of projects that we've had before and that I think has been confusing to the public when we're talking about open space. And I think there's so much interest in creating and preserving open space here in Arlington that if this would help make those discussions more clear, I think it is something that we should consider doing. Yeah, I hope Steve, who's usually in attendance. He regrettably could not be here this evening. Could we have him here on the 27th to talk about that? I will let him know that you've asked to be here. And then the last thing was, and I think, I believe this is something else that Mr. Loretty had brought up previously, was do we need to look at clarifying under the mixed use by law whether the uses being considered for the mixed use building must be independently permissible in that district? Or is it sufficiently clear as it stands? I'm satisfied with how it is currently. I'm not in favor of putting any additional restrictions on that unless and until we are able to revise the zoning map as it exists. I'll take it into consideration at that point right now. The zoning map is what it is because it was just kind of put in place as a piece work, patchwork quilt. And tackling that I think is more important than taking on any other restrictions on the zoning map until we can take care of that problem. I would agree that was exactly my position up on that request as well. I know that's something that the zoning by law working group is still pursuing. I think putting that where it is now and then looking at the zoning map is paramount that something that has to be done sooner rather than later. Go ahead, Jim. So I think the potential zoning amendments in Jenny's memo makes sense. And I wondered if we would want to ask the staff to actually draft the warrant articles to go along with each one of those so we could see them by then. That's what would come to the January 27th, exactly. All right, great. Yeah, you'll have that as a draft and then that would be what we post. Okay. Yeah, I think we've decided to move forward on that. So that's fine. Okay. Anything else on those? No, that was all I had. Okay. We did get an email from Barbara Thornton earlier today. I think you were all copied on that. I know Jenny and I were. So Barbara, I'd have you come up and discuss your proposal, please. Sort of in the abstract. Thank you very much. My name is Barbara Thornton. I'm precinct 16, 223 Park Avenue in Arlington. And I have paper for you. I spoke earlier with Jenny and she asked me to bring some copies of the proposal, the one that you're referring to, that you all received. So I have hard copies of that. Can you present this yesterday and let us know that you'd have hard copies of this? Did I let you know? You did let us know. Oh, Jenny, I got you the most. That's one you can disperse it every little bit of a way. And I have three additional articles that I want to bring to your attention that have to do with housing as well. I understand that it is your prerogative as a board to decide whether or not to go forward this season with the accessory dwelling unit proposal. And I beseech you to do that. We were very close last time. I think we missed it because there was some confusion. I think we can sort out the confusion. And what I have prepared here is a very simplified proposal to you with a warrant article that's derived from existing warrant articles from other comparable municipalities. So that the, try and take the work away. But I think the purposes that I put in one, two, and three make it clearer to the town meeting members and to the town residents as a whole why having accessory dwelling units as an option is such an important issue. And I think to put it into a more complicated zoning issue would be, it wouldn't hurt this but it wouldn't help the zoning of it. This kind of helps you kind of warm up the audience and slide them in the fall to more pure zoning issues. It was definitely, we will take a look at this. I mean, it would be more sense to have you back on the 27th, I believe I'll have more chance to get into it and consider it. Jenny reached out to you as far as what the board's considering. Okay. Continuing the position. Okay. Okay. So I'm not going to summarize some and let you read that. The other three articles that I'm proposing and by I, I mean, I'm the one that's here but there are other people who are interested as well. In proposing these, they start with the process to require speakers who are proponents or opponents of certain legislation to register in advance as such with the clerk and moderator. And this is, this is stolen from, let me do the same thing, let's put these up here. This is stolen from the town of Brookline. Pretty much is literally stolen from the town of Brookline. Borrowed. Borrowed, and I'm not giving it back because they found that when there are particularly contentious issues in town meeting when there are a lot of people that wanna speak on both sides that the fairest way of making sure that there was a balance in hearing both sides for the rest of the town meeting members was to have people sign up in advance as either proponents or opponents and have the moderator decide, you know, one from this side, one from this side, alternately so that you hear a balanced group of people. That allows, that is not only good for the town meeting members, it's not only good for the moderator in clarifying who comes up next, but it also helps those people who may be preparing positions as a group or as a subgroup so that they know, I'm gonna be speaking on this part of it, but I know you're coming up next, so you can speak on that part of it. This makes the whole presentation much more organized and I think Arlington is ready for that. Do you know what the moderator's position is on this? No. I don't, you're seeing it for the first time. Oh, it's not something we would vote on anyway. No. For the select board. I think the reason for is because of our experience at spring town meeting to be fair, we did not have a balanced presentation at annual town meetings last year, can I say that successfully? And I think that when it's important and especially as this board with the select board determines how you're going to move forward together with a new housing agenda that will eventually go to a town meeting, I think it will be important to make sure that we have those balanced points of view about how people view these different topics. So I do think it's important. That's the overlap to this board. I think it's relevant and also relates to the reordering of the agenda for a town meeting in terms of the order of articles. So I think that there's a couple of things that are important for you. You don't have to necessarily weigh in on them, but I think that having measured conversation is helpful to everybody and also more equitable. Housing issues, as you know better than anyone, housing issues and so many issues are contentious and complicated and often require visual perspective as well. So when you can lay out, even the day before, you can, working with the moderator can work with Jenny, for example, or you all, and say, you know, are we making sure that we have the balanced visuals that we need? Are we making sure that we have the details, explanations of how it relates to current zoning or what it's going to do for the town from all of these proponents and opponents? So I think, I wouldn't write that in, I wouldn't recommend writing that in, but I'm hoping, I know that's what happens in Brookline and I'm hoping that that will happen here. Any other questions on that? Okay, moving forward to number three. This is an article to propose the creation of a process allowing affordable housing to be built on privately owned parcels of non-conforming size. Passed out. That's another one I asked you to come back with some detail on the 27th. Okay, you want to detail on this? Yes. On the 27th. Okay, so this, the purpose of this proposal is, and this is taken from a suggestion that to give him full credit from, it came from Stephen McKenna. He dropped an affordable housing approach. The town badly needs affordable housing. The town's zoning, the way it exists, apparently there are a lot of parcels in town that are just a little bit too small in the residential units to be able to build anything, but if you gave permission to build on those with the proviso that anything that's built on that property is permanently affordable, either by rent or ownership, and you have the procedures in place to enforce that in perpetuity. I think there would be a real interest in developing more property if it opens up yet another opportunity in town to develop affordable housing. So that's that. And last, but not conscious. Oh yeah, I'm sorry. I'd be real interested in hearing from the town council about whether this is consistent with the state's zoning code, because I don't know whether it would be. I haven't submitted this to town council yet, but will that be something, should I just ask him specifically to think about that? Okay, okay, so three for this side, one for me, this side. Okay, last but not least, this is my personal favorite, so I'm just asking your indulgence. I may, as you may or may not know, trade into the city planner and went to a school of architecture. And so the idea of a design competition sponsored by Arlington would be a real joy to my heart. And I think it would be good for the town as well, because you have just completed the work with the students on the Broadway corridor. And I found, I went to the presentation that they did here, I found it to be very interesting. One of the big takeaways for me was how many of those units that are now in the Broadway corridor area are actually inhabited by one or two people. That tells me that there is a need for smaller units, single or double occupant housing in Arlington. There's a need for different kinds of housing in Arlington. And there's an opportunity because you've got the data on the Broadway corridor, you've got interest in the Broadway corridor, it's a clear transit corridor, now served by Alewife and in the future by the Green Line, a new Green Line stop, and bus routes to really do a model development to do transit-oriented housing. What I would suggest is not just make it quite that simple because that's too simple, but you wanna put up some standards, and the standards I've got A through J here, but it would include, for example, a requirement for a micro grid. It would include, for example, a proportion of affordable housing. It would include, for example, an FAR of 3.2, which would mean some things are one story and some things may be six stories high, so that there's no restriction by story. So what you're looking for is the best designs. It includes access to daylight for those buildings. So you step, you say, we're going to take away, we're gonna absolve you of the zoning requirements for that district as they stand now, and we're going to invite you to find property owners and developers, match yourself up and come to us with a proposal. And then in turn, we're going to fast-track you and we're going to, with approvals, and we're going to help you get the financing that you need. So we'll put you on the 27th. We'll have a deeper discussion then, a discussion amongst the board once we've had a chance to further digest what you've provided us. At least for dwelling units and the affordable housing issue, the article about balance and town meeting would be a select board issue. I wouldn't want to weigh in on that in your care. We could choose to support or not, but it isn't something I think that this board should get deeply into. And although I think this article is an excellent idea, I don't know if it's something that we would necessarily propose or is it, it's not a zoning by-law. I mean, the part that is related to zoning is the idea that you would fast-track a project in any way. Oh, the design. I think we'd have to break this out for further discussion. I think that essentially in there, there will be some kind of a special permit process that was what I would assume. Okay, so we'll table that one for now. Let me think about the mechanics of it and discuss the mechanics of it offline with Jenny. But certainly on the 27th, I will put you on the agenda. Yeah, if you can not let me come in cold, but give me some warm leads on what your questions might be on the 27th, that would be great. Sure. Okay. Someone will reach out. Okay. Thank you, Barbara. Thank you very much. Thank you. Anyone else to discuss zoning town meeting by-laws, you'll have extra time to open for them to discuss other items. Go ahead before you. I was wondering if we could put something on an agenda or something where we can sit down and discuss exactly what we're trying to do and how we're supposed to go about doing it. I mean, is our mission here, is trying to address balanced growth? I'm just giving you examples, okay? Balance growth, meaning encourage housing and business and office and all the other stuff. And how we go about making some zoning changes to address that. Or our mission is to address affordable housing. Our mission is to address workforce housing. All right. Put a pin in that for right now. And I'm gonna let you pick that up to the next agenda item. Is there anyone else who wants to talk about proposals for zoning by-law changes for spring 2020 town meeting? All right. So now I'm gonna move it to the next agenda item where we start to talk about the discussion and we're gonna have Monday night with a select board. And that is an important thing. That's something that we've talked about internally and in these meetings for some time. I think a broad discussion of where we're headed with these conversations now that a formal dialogue is being opened up between the ARB and the select board is appropriate. And I think where we should begin is at that high level idea of what it is we're actually trying to achieve and identifying all the challenges and all the needs of town, not just focusing in on one specific area. I think if you begin at that high level, you start to look at all the potential benefits as well as all the potential unintended consequences of every action. Then you can start to develop a real solid pathway in an action plan for tackling things not only in 21 but further on down the road. And I wanted to stress that when we as a board, should talk about that before we talk to a select board about that and have our opinions and have it back and forth about that. We're talking about open space being 25 feet or 20 feet. I think that's too narrow and too great into the specifics of it. I think we need to talk about is our major concern to have more open space and have more green space in Auckland, then let's make that a priority and say here's how we go about doing that or is it we're trying to get more affordable housing? Here's how we're trying to go about doing that. Are we trying to encourage more business and more development in certain areas? Here's how we're about to do that. And we haven't really, none of us have really talked about that and given anybody's own opinion how we're about to go that. We're always talking about these little specifics and these little things that just, and I think we lose track of it, of the bigger picture and then everybody falls apart. So if we're trying to address one topic that's talked about and I think we should start off with just what topics are we trying to encourage through some of these changes we're trying to address? Is it balanced growth? Is it affordable housing? Is it more green space? Is it correction of what the zoning was before because it's so scattered? Let's have a conscious knowledge of what we're trying to do up front and then... Well it could be all of those things and that's a question of prioritization. Then fine, I'm okay with that. But at least we state our goals. We never ever state our goals and what we're trying to do. Are we trying to stop growth altogether and just stay where we were? I mean, I don't know, just state it and then say here's what we're trying to do to back that up. Sorry. Go ahead. No, no, that's weird. I was going to just in response to you a little bit, just for a second because I want to talk about the agenda item. In response to you, I would say we have an Arlington master plan and that is our vision of growth and development and anything else in Arlington. That is technically your document for this board and the work that you do should relate back to the Arlington master plan. You might be working on other things that correspond to and align with other plans that we're working on. Some of those plans are your plans but a lot of them are other plans that relate to the town like the open space and recreation plan, the arts and culture action plan, the housing production plan, there's other things too. The housing production plan is one that you happen to adopt but a lot of other plans you don't necessarily adopt that you should be thinking about those other plans when you're making decisions. So I've brought this up before and you probably know where I'm going. I know where you're going with this but I do want to talk about the agenda item. Okay, I just want to answer this question first. Master plan is five years old as of this town meeting. It's technically even older than that because it's been kicking around since at least 2011, if not earlier. It's started again in 2011, yes. And what I've heard in the last year or so through all the different discussions that we've had is that we've achieved a number of the goals of the high level goals of the master plan as far as the open space plan, the affordable housing plan, creating some of these other committees, the recodification of the zoning by-law. And I think it's probably time to start thinking about revising the master plan itself. Now that doesn't mean a wholesale tear down and consultant process. But what it does mean is charging the master plan implementation committee with some new tasks. They do sit underneath the ARB and they take direction from this board to an extent or they should take direction from this board to the entire process. And I think it's probably time to revisit that committee's priorities and membership and figure out where we go so that we can have some of these conversations that Kin talks about as far as setting priorities. Look at what's been done, what's been successful and how we can remap the master plan from 2020 on out. And I think the master plan actually on one level or another encompasses all of the things Kin mentioned. But we haven't necessarily assigned the same priority to each of those things over the last few years. That's right, that's right. And we haven't revisited the master plan as a board since it was adopted. We've looked at pieces, we've taken on certain tasks to some success. But I think some of the more difficult conversations that are now being had need to be hashed out going back to that document and saying, here's what we were in 2014. Here's where the demographics of town have changed since then. There's been a massive population turnover and shift in the demographics in town to figure out how we implement things that were suggested, seem like good ideas five or six years ago that the town maybe still wants maybe need to reorganize some of those priorities. That's not a discussion for tonight. Yeah, I was going to say if you want to talk about this more with maybe some preparation by staff and probably from the master plan, master plan implementation committee, I might ask. At least the co-chair. Co-chair, so just one chair now, right? It's just, yeah. Although Joe has an honor on the committee, basically. He hasn't necessarily resigned. Yeah, I think we need to take a look at that. So if Charlie were to attend and then we could have maybe a deeper conversation about this and then also prepare for it, I would suggest maybe the first meeting in February, not the next meeting, because it's already pretty full at this point. You've got two hearings, by the way. And then you have your continuation of all the conversations that you had about zoning amendments. Appreciate that. So what do we talk to you to select more about? Okay, so if I might just set up that conversation a little bit more. So Adam and I have talked about what might be a draft agenda for that meeting. He's actually telling them, except telling the select board the exact same thing or something like it right now. We're probably about an hour ago, which was the following. So we would, it's a joint board meeting. So just, I'm going to run through what the agenda might look like. And then we can talk about it if that's all right. Sure. So you'd, you know, respectively, each board has to call the meeting to order. We would do welcome and introductions. Adam and I will facilitate the meeting. Of course, you'll be a chair at the meeting and Diane will be a chair at the meeting, but, and so therefore if there's any other actions you wish to take during the meeting, that could still happen, but officially Adam and I will facilitate the conversation. We thought we would start by reviewing since it's been a while. We both presented on the housing in Arlington presentation, was what it was called back in the summer. So it's been some time. So we thought we would do just sort of a high level overview of that with the highlights and sort of refresh everybody's memory about why we're in the room, why it's important to talk about housing and to also gain some group agreement about why we're agreeing to work together on this particular topic. We would then move from there into a review of future warrant articles, which includes just an understanding, I think for both boards respectively of each board's role in reviewing one another's warrant articles when they arise. So in this case, mostly this is the select board reviewing zoning articles and whether that's something new to the town. And I think it's important to talk about that more globally and not just to focus it on this one particular matter whereby you might have other zoning issues that come up that are just as important and you might want the select board to weigh in on them in the future as well. So just making sure that's clarified and then the same thing goes for if you want, if the ARB, for example, is interested in the municipal affordable housing trust fund bylaw, but that's technically not a zoning bylaw, then just having some clarity about that when you're reviewing things that are not technically in one another's jurisdiction. So review a future warrant articles and what that might mean and just having a collective understanding of that moving forward. Then the main focus and thrust of the meeting we were hoping was going to be on the outreach strategy for moving forward with the housing discussion and recommendations. And for that, we would have prepared in a draft format some ways that we could reach probably more like a February 2021 special town meeting because of the timing of all of these conversations we're basically behind about three months. We had hoped to start this conversation back in September, October. We've kind of pushed a number of dates around. Unfortunately, now we're starting, when we're going to start this conversation. And so I think looking forward and then just given that there's natural periods during the calendar year that make it very challenging to engage people. And then also it is 2020, which is a special year nationally. So it will be difficult to keep people's attention on this topic during certain times, particularly the fall, which is when things could potentially turn into policy development. And so I think we want to have enough time to move into a special town meeting, but probably not December, more like February. And so taking it out of the annual town meeting and making it into the special town meeting, which I think it still deserves to be. But the whole idea would be to get equal agreement on that outreach strategy. Who are we appropriately reaching out to? Committees that should be engaged, making sure people feel as though they've had enough of time with the process to move forward through that process. That was, of course, one of the biggest things that we heard among the biggest things that we heard in relationship to the last go through of this conversation was how we did our outreach, who we talked with, and of course how we addressed the concerns that were raised as they came up. And then the next thing and the last thing would be the potential articles for annual town meeting because we've already heard and are aware of a number of things that do touch on housing. I think it's important to just make it clear that there will be some talk about housing topics at the annual town meeting this spring, but that they won't be part of this, exactly what we're talking about together, moving forward on, but we can't forget that things are still going to happen in the regular fashion of annual town meeting. So just to keep that in mind. And then if we want to set a future meeting date with the select board, I would encourage us to do it that evening as well. And then we would adjourn and allow, at different points of time, during the conversation for people to provide us with questions to answer about the specific things during the process. So that was just a proposed framework of what we would talk about with the select board next week. It is going to be held next door at the central school in the main room. So we'll have sufficient seating for both boards up front and then sufficient seating for people in the audience room. So that's the setup. Jenny, when you use door broadly housing, what does that include? What does it include? Yes. I think it includes everything. So it includes all housing. Yeah, but what about mixed use? Does that include mixed use? It would include mixed use development because housing is part of most of our mixed use developments. Yeah, no, I mean, I'm talking about, I think we should talk about it in terms of all housing, not just one type of housing versus another. I think we might be talking less so about certain zoning districts, but I think that's something too that we need to talk about as part of this process. And then what about commercial? I don't think that that was the initial intention of this conversation with the select board. I think the initial conversation was supposed to be about housing and keeping focused on the housing agenda. We can talk about that, but that's the message that I've received throughout. Okay, I'm just thinking that when you talk about just how we want to zone or control or encourage growth in just housing is just one aspect of how we want to see how the future of this town goes. I mean, are we going to slowly turn this town into a bedroom community and have no commercial space and not talk about that at all? Or we can talk about some of the industrial space that's there that can be used for converted to housing or is it going to be encouraged to do all the things? Well, there's some tandem things, just if I might. There's some tandem processes that are happening at the same time in connection with this conversation perhaps, but also somewhat separately. One of them is the economic analysis of the industrial zones, which may as that process evolves, I think that's a good point to bring up perhaps next week is do they want to weigh in on that conversation? We haven't talked about that. That's what I'm talking about is do we want the select board to weigh in on all of the zoning amendments or proposals that we're considering, including things that relate to future economic growth in town? I think one thing that really does tie into housing growth of any kind, whether it's replacing like for like or increasing density or however the conversation goes is there needs to be some sort of focus on increasing the commercial tax base as well. I think we've all become very familiar with the ratio there and asking homeowners to continue to bear more of the burden of property taxes is something that needs to be discussed and considered and how we approach that while encouraging. I think we do need to encourage commercial growth in town. I think we absolutely want to encourage commercial growth in town, keeping in mind the physical restraints and characteristics of the town itself and the existing layout and footprint of the town. Yeah, I totally agree with you. I just wanted to step back far enough. Sure. Just saying. We should go talk about housing. I'm sorry. I think with anything that's something we always have to keep in mind as we move forward because our goal is housing and or commercial and not just one. Yes. Go ahead, Gene. I'm having a little bit of the same problem I think Ken is having with the proposed conversation for next week because I do think we need to talk about housing, affordable workforce, and we do need to talk about how to do outreach around those things. But I think it needs to be in the context of what the town is and what people like about the town. And a couple of things that have happened, I'll use just sort of as examples. I think one of the things that a lot of people like about the town is we have these sort of three village centers, quote unquote, the Heights, the Center, and East Arlington. And I started thinking about that when the work was being done. And I read I think the draft on the potential to do something with the Heights in the industrial zones, which is sort of, and I think it's a little dangerous to do too much planning because too much planning is bad as too little and how do you do the right one? But how do you put the housing in the context of commercial and industrial, things like that. And then when Barbara Thornton came in tonight and gave us this really interesting design competition, I think the piece of it that I would add to it is how do you create a village in East Arlington along Broadway? This isn't quite a village, right? It's a beta test of what a village could look like. Right, but then how do you make a village out of this? Because if we're gonna talk about more density, and I think we should, and more affordable housing and more workforce housing, and I think we should, what's the context in which it's gonna happen? And I think the context would be like, how do you create a village, for example, just going with what Barbara did on Broadway in East Arlington that would accommodate that so people could say, that's great, that's the next good place to Arlington to be, we're in the height. So I don't think it's really complete to just talk about housing without the context that way. Do you wanna say something, Rachel? No, I'm completely aligned with what you presented. I think that you can't talk about housing without also talking about increasing the commercial tax base that go hand in hand and you certainly can increase density without also increasing the commercial spaces that support an increased density here. Go ahead, David. I also agree. I think the risk of talking about housing in isolation is creating incentives for housing, whoops. Every time. We never have a roll of paper towels around there. I'll get it. But the risk is creating incentives for whatever type of housing it might be that may actually result in the loss of commercial or industrial space. Which is something that we, we don't have a lot of time to talk about. It's something that we really can't afford at this point in time. We've seen that already. Right, right. I think we've lost, I think we've lost a lot of our community the way things have been designed and the way things have been planned and operated over the last 40 or so more years. And it's kind of fallen to us at this point to have discussions that should have been had 20, 25 years ago. We've had this discussion ourselves several times. I think the five of us are in alignment about how to approach this meeting next week. As long as it's the understanding that this is an ongoing conversation, not a one-off. Right. We're not going to solve everything tomorrow. No, no, no, we won't. And it's not just up to the five of us here and the five members of the select board, two of whom we're going to turn over for very soon anyway, maybe at least one. You know, it's an ongoing discussion. It's a town-wide discussion. It needs to be more than just the two boards to continue on with things. And I think one of the ways we get to that is through the outreach discussion and what sort of outreach we think will be worthwhile and what sort of outreach both boards and associated staffs can accommodate and plan for in really, what's it, years' time. Now, how do we get enough community buy-in to reach a representative cross-section of the town and ensure that something workable comes out of that? I think with the master plan, you know, that it was a long two-year process to get to a document that was adopted by this board and then endorsed by town meeting by an overwhelming margin. But there you saw the buy-in from every cross-section of Arlington that put something together that everyone could really believe in and move forward. And the implementation comes separate, putting disagreements over that. That goes back to what I said before about sort of revising that. But I think that's a model process to look at as far as those sorts of meetings, those sorts of frequency, and really welcoming viewpoints from all over to really try to gauge where the majority is and where the vocal minority might be. So I'm just trying to think of how we merge all this into one conversation for next week. So one thing I could add to what I shared in terms of the draft would be that I would also, I talked about sort of giving you that review and the high level kind of housing in Arlington. But maybe I should also, because I haven't provided this directly to the select board, of course you're aware of all of the different planning processes that are going on. But I think perhaps zooming in on the ones that most relate to commercial economic industrial development. Just so that people are all on the same page about those tandem processes and how that perhaps relates overlaps with this conversation along the way. I don't know how yet, but I assume that along the way, we will run into times where we're either looking at something that's potentially a housing issue or potentially a commercial or economic development issue. Is there anything else that you wanna add to the agenda though specifically that you wanna make sure that we bring up during this meeting? Put it up to you all. Take suggestions. I think the thrust of where we're coming from is relatively united for better or worse. We'll see where things go with the select board. But I think we have an idea of what we'd like to accomplish, just how do we get there? All right, anything else? Minutes, minutes, minutes. Two sets, I think tonight. Yes. We have November 18th. I did not, I only do one thing, go ahead. There was one thing that says the ice asked for a trench valve or something like that. Was it a little minutes? A valve? I think that's how it was spelt out. It should be drained, but they're not doing it anyways, but that's okay. All right. These minutes. Oh, ring. Ring. A trench ring. Got it. I have just one small item on this one, page three of the notes from the 18th. In the third paragraph where I'm talking about the deliveries, my specific point was related to ensuring that there was no double parking. And that's just not, the point about the double parking is it reflected in here, but that was the whole point of speaking, which is Ms. Zimbari asked about deliveries, learning special track, that was related to wanting to ensure that double parking did not occur on mass out. Okay, right, I do remember that. Jean or David? I had no comments on the 18th. Okay. If I'm right, 18th. No comments. So with that, I'll take a motion to approve as amended. So moved. Second. All in favor? Aye. And then December 16th. Jean? I had no comments on the 16th. Rachel? I had one. David's shaking his head, so go ahead. Just going to play the paragraph. So it was on page two of this year. So in the one, two, three, four. Fifth paragraph in the middle of the page where I said that the Outwood House is listed in Arlington, Sixth Road. Yes. The point was that it was not a hardship because it still was in 2009, which was contrary to what Mr. Ernest presented. And was listed as such in 2009. In 2009. Per the notes. Per the special permit condition. Actually, it was actually in the decision. It was, yes, it was. Actually, I've seen people in there measuring. Okay. Fantastic. I move, oh, we adopt the minutes of December 16th. Second. All in favor. Aye. Okay, moving on to our open forum. If there's anyone who wishes to speak, the item's not to be discussed, but if you'd like to raise your hand and be heard, please do so. Mr. Seltzer. Don Seltzer, Irving Street. First thing I want to mention is that I went to the board's website, which has been updated. And now it has links to some of the plans for current projects. It's a big improvement, and I thank you for that. It's really helpful. I also want to say that conversation among the board members in the last 15 minutes is some of the most interesting discussion that I've observed you having in recent times. And I just want to commend you for that. The one thing that does concern me is, next week's meeting, your joint meeting with the select board. From what I heard from the agenda, you have Adam and Jenny presenting to both boards. And you're talking about outreach efforts. What provision is there going to be at next week's meeting for members of the public to speak? I know that I have some things that are directly related to what you have to say. I'm sure Barbara would like to speak. Oh, hey, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think there are a lot of residents who have pretty intelligent remarks to make which are quite relevant to what you're discussing. Will there be a forum for them? And what forum, I would like to take. The agenda will include Q&A for all of the relevant agenda items. I'm not asking for a Q&A. I think people on various sides of the issue have very useful information that they'd like to provide comparable to the presentation that you and Adam are going to be presenting, rehashing stuff from last summer. And I think it would be a disservice to the idea of public involvement in outreach if all we were allowed to do was just to question and answer. So there will be, sorry, to frame it that way, perhaps, but there would be an opportunity for people to comment on each agenda item as we're moving through so that it's clear if there are any questions but also if there are any comments. Will we be able to use the projector? There is not, we were not planning to have any projector put up at the forum. Could we have one? I can investigate if we can put up the screen. I think that's the biggest challenge over there. So we can... It doesn't seem to be a big technical challenge. We will follow up with you separately to determine that. And if you'd like to use it, we can talk about how to include that on the agenda. I would really, really appreciate it. I think it could be a lot more useful meeting with the two boards there if you would allow some degree of presentation from different viewpoints to the public. Yeah, thank you. Barbara. I don't want to cede my time. If Don's going to negotiate time for me. But I do want to say from my perspective, the most important thing about this meeting is for the two boards to talk to each other. So I'm really curious to know. And if you can say afterward, there will be another meeting where we can respond. But I really want to see these two very important boards, particularly on housing, have the time given that you're going to bookend it within a two hour process, I'm assuming. That you have the time to ask each other questions and get personal. And that was the intention of this meeting was for the two boards to speak with one another and just to remind everybody of the purpose of the meeting, two boards to talk with one another and to gain agreement about the way to move forward together and to agree upon the outreach strategy. Those were really the three priorities of the meeting. I think I agree with Barbara. I think there'll be other meetings once this initial meeting is condoned. Because we've been pretty much working separately on our own. And I remember asking for this last year so that we can work together in unison or at least share some same views. And then you got to give us a chance to at least do something. And then I think the opportunity for public involvement may come later once we have talked. I think it will come later and it will come often. But it may not be right at the start. But I think the thing is you've got to give us enough of a chance to do it. And it's been a long time coming to make this happen. And I want to have enough time for us to actually really, really get into some. That's why I was asking for all the stuff here. And I really want to talk about it in public. And I'm sure we can have all the opportunities to share Don's view or all the people's views later on. I know we're not going to try to push that aside. But I think you've got to give us a chance. That's all I'm asking. Yeah, I mean, this is really the first conversation that these two lawyers have had in. I don't know the last time. For all intents and purposes of both boards. And keep in mind that it's a large result of the conversations that were had last spring where there were accusations of not enough public participation. And so it's time to let the boards speak and do our jobs and figure out how best to involve those of you who are frequent and helpful participants. I think it is very valuable for the boards to come to an understanding about how to move forward on these issues. And, or I think to be more precise, how to, what proposals to pursue to move forward? Because I think part of the public engagement process is to vet those proposals with the public and get feedback on them. Rather than spend the next year just trying to get community buy-in on the proposals that we have decided are the way to move forward. Oh, absolutely. I don't think that we're going to come up with five warrant articles that both boards start to market, essentially, Monday night for the next year. I think the important thing is to figure out where the priorities of the Development Board lie, where the priorities of the Select Board lie, based on the discussions that we have all been having for the last, not only the last six months, but over the last year plus. We've gotten input from the various citizens groups that are out there. We've seen the information. We've heard the information and taken it in with very high degree of seriousness. And that's why these conversations are happening. And now how do we take it that the discussion that we had is how do we take all this information in and now that both boards are sitting in the room together, figure out where those joint priorities lie and how to begin that approach? I just see it as a community process led by the two boards. But I see whatever specific proposals might ultimately come out of that process. I think are probably quite likely to end up being different than what we might think at the start. Certainly. Go ahead, Gene. So while Don's offered to do a presentation, I think sounds compelling. I think the meeting next week is really not the time for that. I think the meeting next week is the time for the two boards to talk and interact. And my concern about saying to Don, Don come and do this presentation is that's one presentation. And it just happens to be you who was here who was asking to do it. And what about other people in the community who might have different points of view, want to have different presentations? It's too limiting. I think maybe there'll be another meeting where we will ask a lot of people from the community to come in and do presentations so we get a wide variety of inputs and views and not just limited to you because you come to the meetings and want to do it. So while I think it's a nice offer, I think we should postpone it to another day after the two boards have had the opportunity to meet and to talk about things. And then maybe there'll be a day when we invite a lot of people to come in and to do those sorts of presentations. That's my point. I said it to you, Sage. And I sort of agree. I mean, we've been looking forward to this joint meeting of the two boards as a way to interact with both of you at the same time. And it was sort of promised last June, I believe, when it was first mentioned and it has been delayed over and over again. And you know, perhaps you're right, there isn't, with the one week, there isn't enough time to publicize it so that all the interested parties who have useful input can speak. But there should be time for it. Question and answer is not a great way of interacting with the public. So when we have the conversation next week, we would have a draft of a community engagement plan, essentially, within a strategy, which could, you know, I can take these, this feedback tonight and roll it into that and share that for the conversation next week. Because I think there would be, the engagement process will include a long upfront process of engaging people in this conversation in various formats I might have. Yeah, I think, yeah, I think the outcome. That helps us to develop things. I think the outcome will see. I'm sorry to talk over, just getting late, I'm excited. I'm excited too, but that's why I'm talking. You go home, yes. And to go with meeting money. I think the outcome, take it back to one of the things that David was saying, is not specific ideas, but just priorities. Areas of priorities that need to be discussed, not necessarily a direction of how to answer those questions, but what are the questions that we should be asking over the next several months and how do we reach out to make sure that we're bringing in all the right people? You know, citizens groups, the interested parties, the people who aren't usually on board. That's how we move forward here. All right, anything else from any other members of the public on other items? The larger audience than usual. Thank you all for bearing with us. Take a motion for the adjourn. Motion to adjourn. All in favor. Aye.