 If you try and look me up on the internet, I will be found as Aneesha Salute. I probably have the most common North Indian first name, last name combination in the world. There are movies in which actresses are called there. So it was impossible for me to find my name on the internet. So that's how you can find an internet. I'm a part-time test designer. And while a lot of people don't think that's a really cool thing to do, for me it's not quite cool enough. And I like to think of myself as like a proper sort of nerd. People ask me often what I really do for a living and I don't quite do anything in particular. My life tends to be a series of side projects that I really are. So I thought there would be no better way to sort of introduce myself but to run you through a few things that I do. I run this sort of small archive of LED type faces that you find in public transit. I call it type and transit and I basically, wherever I travel, I snap up pictures and then I do small, decent analyses of how the type faces work. In Delhi, I work with 15 mobile of Dominic Desain, maybe some of you are third of her. And we run this thing called type of ventures where we build these large public lettering installations with volunteers and their only purpose is for the people of the city to sort of come and enjoy. There's no other point to that. I love books and I recently worked with this studio in Bangalore for Part 17 to make a book cataloging app for personal libraries because I had thousands of books and I could never keep track of that. I worked with a friend who's in the audience today to design a translator between Indian languages and play. I'm also working on a documentary film about opening title sequences in Indian cinema and on top of all of that, I have a food blog. So that's basically what I do. And apart from all these exciting things, in the last couple of years, I went and bought myself a master's degree and this was a degree in type face design at the University of Reading which is in the UK and I was super excited that a lot of people that we've been mentioning in his presentation were from Reading. So, you know, the Arabic Helvetica, Frutica, Univer, all done by Adam Nye of the University. Newman was done by Adam Nye. Ramanathan is from the University of Reading. So even though the University happens to be in England, there is a large amount of emphasis there on design in local scripts, especially scripts that come from India which was part of the reason why I went to study there. So after I finished my master's degree in type face design, I moved to the US and then I worked at Apple with the font team to basically work on the stuff that you see in a West End in the iOS. So when I was at Apple, I worked on projects which involved designing type faces for Devnatri, for Latin for Europe and Africa, for Russia, for Greece, for Thailand, I think so, like a large set of scripts. So that is what I do. The reason why I'm here is to talk about the typeface that I designed while I was at Reading and it's a typeface for Kanpur. Kanpur is a city in North India, it's where my parents are from, hence the name. And what I'm going to talk about is basically the challenges which lie in front of anyone who wants to design typefaces in Indian scripts and in general the challenges for Indian typography. And at the same time, because there are so many challenges, obviously there's a lot of opportunity to do some really interesting, exciting work. So I'm going to talk about why I designed a typeface which was live Kanpur because at Reading we get to decide our own piece, so I decided what I wanted to make and then I had to learn how to make it. So why did I decide to design something like that? And then I'll give you a sense of what goes into designing a typeface of this scale. So I found out that I was going to Reading in early 2011. Even before I went to Reading I knew I had to go and design a typeface there so I started thinking about what the typeface could be like. And I had a pretty simple sense of what I wanted to do. It had to be a typeface that did justice to its content. I mean all of you were seeing the Reading's presentation and he said that you know, you don't have typefaces for basic stuff. So if I wanted to read a textbook in Hindi, chances are it's going to be really badly designed. If I wanted to, I mean actually as a graphic designer, and I'm guessing some of you are, if you wanted to design a complex, brochure Indian object, what were you going to do? You don't know how to design it well at all because you unfortunately simply can't. So if you look at a lot of typefaces that exist for all Indian scripts, a lot of them look really, really heated. That's because they were mostly designed in the 60s and we've been repurposing them ever since. The second thing is that they are global. So you know, to give you an example from the Indagiri, you know, you basically have half letters. So I'm saying the word kya, that is the half sound of ka and the full sound of ya. So a lot of times when a word like that shows up, there will be like ugly overlaps and things won't quite sit properly. And that happens for all Indian scripts, not just Indian. So a lot of them are just basically global. And then the last thing is that there are very few resources for good typefaces. I mean when we think of Latin typefaces, we think of something with a regular and an italic and a global, and a bold italic. And then a semi-bold and an italic with it and hopefully a light and then an ultra light and maybe a display and so on and so forth. So when you design something, you know, you actually have a good palette to begin with. That simply does not exist for Indian scripts. I mean, even at best you're probably going to have like four or five weights but you never quite have styles that you can use together. So I got to reading and I was told that I couldn't just say that I wanted to design a typeface and I was just used to this content. That wasn't sort of good enough for an academic setting. So I came up with a formula. So my dream was a Latin and Indian typeface family for bilingual dictionaries. Now, the idea was to somehow sneak in everything I wanted to do. So Latin is the script that we use for English, French, German, German, German, B, A, B, C. Indian typeface is what we use for Indian and Iraqi, in case. And when I said typeface family, I was very certain that I didn't want to design just one font. It had to be a large set of fonts that could all work together. Then it was a bilingual typeface, which meant that there were two scripts and two scripts that looked really different. So they had to be harmonized in a way that they worked really well together. And the last break was dictionaries, which gave me some sort of a brief and same, you know, dictionaries are always really small text and it's really dense. It's normally not printed very well. And that's a pretty complex type of profiling, actually. So that gave me the chance to make something which has a lot of styles and ways. So I started off with three problems that I wanted to solve. And so the first question I had to ask myself was, what would a devanagri look like? And one of the things that I wanted to do very strongly was not to start with a Latin, because that's what always happens, right? Also in a lot of examples, abbreviations. There are so many Latin typefaces. What most people end up doing is, there's a helvetica and it works really well. Let's make something that looks like that. As opposed to saying, I need a good, you know, I don't know, Arabic typeface and I will meet. English is so sort of spread everywhere that it's hard to sort of get out of that. Since I could, I chose to start from the devanagri and decide what that would look like and let that inform what the Latin must look like, because, you know, I can do that. So a lot of the answers for that came from the brief in terms of its functionality. For instance, it had to be legible in small sizes. So, you know, for something to be legible in small sizes, you have to ensure that all the white spaces in it are pretty large, because if they're not, they're just going to get clogged up and you're going to have just a lot of black ink. So, you know, the design had large counters. It had a lot of square shapes to make sure it was legible in small sizes. Then it had to be really sort of sturdy and robust, because, again, small sizes, bad printing, you don't want your letters to not get printed properly. So, you know, contrast between the thick parts and the thick parts of the letter was very less so that the thin parts don't just disappear in small sizes. Now, beyond these sort of functional choices, there were a lot of aesthetic choices, which basically led to it not looking dated. So, while I did not want it to look dated, I still wanted to sort of, you know, give a north to a really, really long calic graphic tradition that the type has. So, if you see the font, it has the correct pen angle based on color. So normally, I don't know, has anyone done any sort of English calligraphy ever? Yeah. So, if you've done that, it may not be the pen angle of the exact opposite. So, you know, not to do something bizarre where I choose the, you know, English pen angle and make all the Dev Na'vi letters. I wanted to be respectful and use what they use in Dev Na'vi for like, I don't think there's none. The second thing I wanted to do was to have the fluid forms, because calligraphy, especially for the Dev Na'vi, can be, if you're doing it with the right pen, quite sort of strict and rigid. So, I have a lot of fluid forms, which might make it look a little bit more friendly. And then, I took that a step further to say that, you know, not have any sort of sharp terminals, have a lot of sort of round, soft shapes to make the typeface look more contemporary and more, you know, approachable in some ways. So, once I had a little bit of that done, the next question was, you know, now I don't have a Latin, and it has to sort of work with it. The one thing I really did not want to do was to sort of create some kind of kind of style monster. You know, like, excited for my letters, you know, or do something equally strange to the Latin. So, you know, if you don't do that, what do you do? The scripts look extremely, extremely different. The first thing I did was to match the metrics, by which I mean, if you put both the Latin and the Dev Na'vi in the same line, it doesn't look like one of them is visually larger than the other. Because if you've seen a lot of bilingual books in India, you can really use, like, Times New Lauren to set the English text. And there will be some Indian font which is probably tiny size, and you know, you can see it was an afterthought. So, I really did not want that to happen. So, the idea was to match them up in such a way that in a sentence, if they're used together, they have the same sort of presence on the page. The next thing was that because they're so different in shape, if... So, okay, so typographically, color doesn't mean red, blue or green. It basically means that if you sort of squint your eyes and look at it, like a piece of paper with text printed on it, how black of a day does it look to you? So, when you're designing new scripts that are this different, when they're used together, you want both of them to look like thank you there, right? You don't want one to be so much darker than the other. The Latin looks like a regular, but the Dev Na'vi sort of looks like a whole. Because in that whole, because Dev Na'vi has a horizontal line on top of every single letter, if you keep the stem width the same, Dev Na'vi looks really, really dark. So, you have to do some sort of adjustment to make sure that both scripts have the same color on the page. The next thing was to put the features wherever you could put them and not force it too much. So, the inner counters of letters in both scripts have corners. That's the kind of feature that both scripts can have without it feeling like it's been forced down its throat. So, with this I got a sense of what the typeface would be visual. But, that was a bigger question of, you know, is the typeface workable? Can people actually type up a text and get what they want from it? So, that's this really magical thing called total type, which is a little bit of programming that typeface design is to which I'm guessing that girls people know of. The simplest example of this typef and I, most fonts will convert it into an FI literature. So, that's the little dot on top of the I, doesn't go clashing with the thing coming down on the F. And, most typefaces do this and most of us don't notice. And, that's the way it's supposed to be. The idea is that no one notices things like that. So, for something like English, the things it does are usually pretty ornamental. You know, if there was no literature, you'd still be able to read FNI. It might not look as pretty. But, for Indian scripts, because they are complex, and they usually have the whole system of having a consonant and then vowels attaching to it, without open type, who basically can't write anything. So, if any of you has ever used a localized keyboard, you'll know that, you know, even to write the simplest words, even like a whole bunch of skulls. And, if it wasn't for open type, you would basically just get the first part of that equation without the plus signs. Which is not what you want. You basically want all the rearrangement, all the correct shapes to, you know, magically end up on your screen. So, that is done using open type. And, the typeset design actually has an extensive amount of open type to make things work. So, for instance, if you have the curve, and the thing after that is the e-mathra, and that's the standard e-mathra, except curve is a wider letter. So, using open type, I can ensure that it gets replaced by e-mathra, which looks perfect for that letter. Similarly, the letter herb, with the oomathra at the bottom, it basically doesn't look like it's in the center, and sort of looks like it's clashing. So, I can use open type to replace that combination with the ligature, which makes it perfect. To make a typeface which works with open type, you usually require between 600 to 800 tubes per bit. So, the regular will have these many, and then multiply that with whatever else you decide to draw. So, that's an approximate set you have. Like, a font like Adobe Divinati, which is probably one of the more extensive fonts, probably has about 1200 tubes. Because it supports, you know, all sorts of obscures on screen fonts, which most fonts do. So, there are a lot of indian type foundry stuff that we've shown us, probably has around 600, 650 tubes per font. What's a globe? What's a globe? So, the curve was a globe. The e-mathra was a globe. The food stop was a globe. So, every character that you see in a font is basically called a globe. The e-mathra is one letter, but it might need several alternates. So, they're all called cliffs. So, there will be an e1 which is a cliff. An e2 should be another cliff. An e3 should be another cliff. So, yes. So, even though Divinati has a basic character set of about 50 to 60 letters, to make all the combinations work properly, you design something which is also set up. Pooja, can you speak into the mic? Should I? Just turn it towards. So, yes. Around 600 to 800 lips per weight. But then there's more stuff that you can do with open text which can make the typeface work even better. So, which was things like the font having two kinds of grotesque books. One which works really well when you're writing in English text. One which works really well when you're writing in Devanathri text. I mean, these things offer all purposes just niceties. The thing is that you know, it's my language that I'm writing in. I would want it to be nice. You know, it's the little things which we don't notice in Latin typography and because they're missing in Indian script they sort of stand out. Then things like, so full vowel letters in Indian languages basically don't get used in the middle of words. They're always used in the beginning of a word. So a lot of them have very flourishing shapes. If you look at the first one, it has this sort of tall white thing going in front but we use a lot of English in our Indian languages. So the moment you translate English words in Hindi, you have a lot of vowels which need to come in. For instance, I had a teacher and her name was Fiona. I have to write Fiona in Hindi. The vowel O will be in the middle of a word. So the font has alternates that can be used inside translated words which make the text look better. Then things like tagular numbers. Most English fonts are going to come with multiple sets of numbers and one of these is going to be a set where the widths of all the numbers are same. So if you are setting an annual report you know all your numbers will always line up. But no one does that for Indian fonts. I mean who gets. So the idea was to have all those nice things even for Indian fonts. If someone wants an annual report in Hindi they can actually have a proper table. Then no number styles. What if you wanted to do signage with it or you wanted to use it in a text book. Arrows which match the number styles which was extremely useful in something like dictionary. So with this I basically had one rate of the Dev Nagri with a lot of nice things going for it. But the trouble was it was just one weight and I had started off with believing there was going to be more. So the first thing that happened was to add widths. So it currently has a regular semi-bold and a bold with the possibility of having stuff in the middle if it needs to. Then there was an attempt to make something which was like a sans-serif except there are no serifs to chop off. So it was basically a version which was not as soft and friendly as tourism. But something with more sharp edges something with slightly less contrast. And then that got a bold and the bold in that had even more exaggerated features. So this would be the kind of thing that you would use for a magazine headline and then you would use a regular to set your text and maybe you could use the semi-bold for your quote and you could use the sans-serif regular for your captions and actually have enough going around that you can design a tool document with it. This was probably the most exciting part of the project for me which was saying what if we could have a day of night in the attic? Like what would that really look like? And that's the solution which is slant the letters squish the monthly. But if you study design you're told quite strictly never to do that with a font. Like never, ever to do that with a font. So if I don't do that, how would I make a day of night be italic? It clearly has absolutely no tradition for one. So it's not like I can go back, look at some manuscript from 300 years ago and go like there. I'm going to talk about that. No, but not people write like that. Precisely. So the idea was to learn from handwriting because even the italic that we see in English basically developed from a fast writing style. That is why it became narrower and you go home and write yourself. You realize if you are writing faster your handwriting becomes narrow. When you're writing fast it automatically slants. It's not like the italics came out of nowhere. So the idea was to look at a lot of people's handwriting and see what makes handwriting different from conscious writing and try and get those features into this weight which I could call the day of night be italic. So there were basically three features. One, you're writing fast. And because you're writing fast you're not lifting your pen as many times. So when people make the bar on their keys when they're writing, they usually just put this one floating bar at the end of the word. Or one single bar will basically be used for all the T's in that word. People don't lift their pens. The same thing happens in English. People don't lift their pens. And then because they're not lifting their pens they're going to retrace shapes. So if you draw a B and then you retrace the stem and then you make the rest of the B. I have a foreign word in my text and I want to make sure it looks like it's not a Hindi word. I mean the same reason as Latin, right? Because texts are complex and you mean different kinds of styles to be able to differentiate between them. The way you write is quite native, right? I mean slanting it is not native but I'll handle it. It isn't but the fact is that because of the fact that so many people came to our country and said to stay here for so long our texts are now really complex and it would be nice to think that we can use just one style to set our texts like, you know, there are books in Hindi and they need bibliographies. And if you look at an English book there's a pretty standard way of how you set a bibliography. You know, you put the last name of the author in small caps you would put the name of the publication in italics and so on so that when someone is looking at a bibliography they can quickly tell what is the book name. What do people do when there's a bibliography? They basically don't know what to do. They just put everything in the regular which only makes it harder for someone to read. Or, you know, if you look at things like recipe books for instance if you look at a good recipe book in English you will see so many different styles being used to show, you know nice sort of tables which will tell you ingredients and measurements big type for the title if there's a sauce whose name is originally French it could be set in italics what do you do if you have to set something in Hindi? You basically take your one word and sort of type everything out and hope you don't make any spelling errors. So I mean the idea is to make like I said in the beginning something that justifies content the fact is that our content is not the same as it used to be. So yeah, faster speed fewer pen lifts and retracing shapes and that is what it ended up looking like. So wherever possible the pen was not repeated so if you were going to make a double more which is the first character you see I did it exactly like someone would like it by hand just do the whole thing in one go you know attaching vowel signs to characters when you're writing you normally don't pick up your pen and then go back and add it you just do it in a single stroke so this basically became I didn't call it an italic in the end because it's not from Italian and that would have been a little missing form so it's basically a cursive because that's what hand writing is so yeah, so this was the form and I can probably show you some examples of it in use in for instance, additionally I have a question is there a possibility when you're trying to write this in italics that because of similarities different scripts in India one script might look similar to the other and get them used I'm guessing see, Devnabhi looks sort of like Gujarati but Gujarati doesn't have a headline so I suppose that's quite simple once you don't have a headline it'll look quite different it sort of also looks like Gurmukhi but Gurmukhi doesn't have a calligraphic tradition so it's always monolingual so this is basically but I'm sure there could be a cursive for pretty much any script because the way we see things written on let's say a sign board is very different from how we would write a note to someone we write them fast and it's usually sort of legible which is what handwriting is and the idea of making a cursive typeface would be to pick out features which can be repeated enough that it remains legible because you won't want a typeface to be legible I have another question if the cursive phase which have developed how is it the same family as the other typeface you'd have looked I don't know I can give you examples of other say if you look at these two you'll notice that their skeleton and metrics are the same so in that sense if they are used together they will have an inherent sense of similarity between them I think with the ways it's quite simple I mean it is really the same shape becoming pattern even if you look at the cursive you'll see features which are repeated for instance the little corner in the inner counter of the curve which is the second character that you see I mean the idea of a typeface family needs to have things which kind of look similar so if you look at Georgia and Georgia Italic they're not identical in any way or sort you just have some features which lend them a sense of familiarity to each other that's about it but yeah I mean whether or not a divanagdi cursive fits with it is a question I've been asking myself and I'd love to hear what everyone thinks about it as well so yeah this is it in the dictionary I think the one on the left is a divanagdi but uniquely the one on the right is by English words then you know you can use them together sort of since the cursive doesn't really have a tradition you could use it as a display there's no one to really stop you from doing that so the idea was that if there are so many styles and if they aren't given up to crappy designers who knows how they would use them they might use something in a way that I wouldn't expect so if you look at the little text on the right which if someone needs divanagdi it's tomato, tomato, potato, potato actually puts those tomato and potato in the cursive like you would put foreign words in italics on the one on the left it just uses it for heading because it looks different like this I particularly like especially the thing on the left which is a train time table so this was like a chance to actually use the divanagdi numbers in a good tabular format also to use you know numbers with different styles to be able to differentiate train numbers having sort of these resources would make this document so much easier to parse than just having one style in which you would use it you actually developed a tabular structure for your cursive numbers how I mean it just has to be the same width some letters would be narrow I mean even in a case you see here, a letter on the bottom I mean by design it's a slightly wider letter and you know you just want to squish it a little that's really not the word it's like how you write math in the square grid things wider numbers have to be squished the one sort of looks lonely in the box that's just the word it is the funny thing I had to do when designing panels was that the numbers were preferred in the question I mean I actually have a set of Latin numbers which correspond to the right size I wouldn't have to use the aerial type which is the problem I was trying to solve thank you so I design most of this using something called font wrap there's also there's something called font forge which is open source and free so I suppose if you want to give things a shot there's also a new application called glyphs which has been designed by this German gentleman called Ikea and he actually has two versions that is a basic version which is probably like 50 euros so it's extremely sort of purchaseable even for us in the third world countries because font lab is quite expensive it's about 900 dollars so how do you do you make it an illustrator important? all of these are basically vector based I mean these are all vectors so the only thing something like font lab glyphs or font forge what we let you do is make and then do things like you know what's it called an illustrator clipping mask it let you do things like clipping mask it may come from past but that's all you can do enough what are options we have given for tracking between the letters do you have any special option for providing tracking what are the letters of first space with the hope that a majority of them will work well and then there's cunning pairs to make sure certain pairs work better the heavier weights will always have tighter spacing because the white spaces inside them are really small so the spaces between them tend to be small the light ones will have more spacing I'm not sure what you mean by like more tracking options one question while designing type spaces in general especially when it comes to italics and cursive writing when you are designing for cursive a letter has a beginning and a letter has an ending so in cursive ideally the beginning and the ending of two letters should join so is this the place where these many letters come into picture a lot of times they do because you know to give an example of Latin it's possible that when you are making a cursive R it joins in a certain way with letters like A, Q and D because they all have the clamping area but it might have to join differently with an I so then you will need three kinds of R so you will write some open type to say that every time an R comes before an I put this one if it comes before an S go fetch the other one so you have to define all these combinations draw them and then define them in code to say which one comes before and after which one so this was the first part how long did it take? well it's not finished I started in November of 2011 and I had to make my university submission in June 1st 2012 but it's far from finished if I had to finish it and sell it it would probably require about each to nine months of my time all day, every day no fun side projects so what else are you going to build into this? what else are you going to build into it? at this point hopefully add a few more weights add all sorts of regional variants based on preferences of people so like there are certain letters which the Marathi people liked on a certain way but the people who speak Hindi like them another way and the people who speak Nepali like them another way so it will not be just adding those letters but adding all those alternates for those letters as well so hopefully that and I really want to have which matches with the Latin and the Vietnam team that's probably never going to happen too much work so can you I'm just hypothetically speaking, can you make a font design open source? yes, this is set in an open source design, it's a source and it's pro right, so you're saying it takes so much time for you to make this font can you get someone else to do bits and pieces of it? it happens very often in large font projects so if you have you know have you guys on the internet seen the Typeface Scholar how do you spell it? S-K-O-L-A-R Scholar I mean it's everywhere on the world so Scholar also started as something someone made at ready so when the Typeface got released he basically only released the Latin portion then he got in touch with someone who was really good at Greek and they drew the basic Greek and then he hired a couple of more people who finished the Greek by drawing the golden and then he hired someone for the Cyrillic and then someone else made the Beirut Agri and then someone else made the Gujarati so yeah, a lot of times there's more than one person who ends up at least finishing the Typeface because I suppose it would take maybe one or maybe two people to come up with the core concept of the Typeface but then after that the editions are often made better One of my frequent interactions with fontists when choosing the font in Word or such documents so how do such fonts get chosen? Who decides okay, these are the fonts that are being built there So Microsoft actually commissioned a set of fonts many years ago by this gentleman called Matthew Carter he's the tour who's designed the rest they basically buy off people so either you commission it or you sort of buy it so for instance in the iPad in the new iBook for instance you can choose a bunch of fonts writing which you can do the books there's like probably four or five options so none of them is a font that Apple commissioned they were existing fonts that people had made and were selling and Apple rented them a bottle license they were mostly their license designs so yeah, you could design a Typeface they could like it and then it would be on Word and you'd probably use a lot of money I mean, what is the process do the book for no usage or good design or anything I was asking what is the criteria for your font to get selected and such no but if I tell you I'd kill you and I'm not killing you more like Apple would come and kill both of us we have to talk about that it's basically what fonts are more available like initial version of windows basically they go out and they look at stuff which they think would be useful so if you look at Microsoft you see they have a whole bunch of fonts there's formal fonts which you might use for a document there is some fonts which look like you might use on a wedding invitation there's other fonts which look like you would use on your daughter's birthday party they basically think of basic users user would have and then try and put something which might be useful also I think I don't like that I don't know who uses them anymore there was famous comic sans which also by the way designed by an alumna of university of pen so I have a question so when designing these fonts do you keep in mind where they're going to be read because for example you have to design something for an iPad and design something for a desktop or for a holding yeah you would think differently so do you have to customize your fonts to each of these devices or final mediums I don't know how many of you use InDesign F is called Minion Flow it didn't design for about a dozen sizes and you don't even know it just replaces it so if you're typing in Minion Flow it looks different from if you're typing in Minion Flow the font has been designed for all those sizes separately bundled into this one and it will secretly change it and you never realize it it's a lot like I can design right? exactly it's a lot like I can design precisely it all depends on what scale you have to use it in so when you design this I did not do any kind of magic that do you have to design separate glyphs for clear light or non-clear light now all of this goes on top of this you can choose to paint it separately but it all happens on the same outline so if you're designing specifically for this screen and for a particular painting environment you might choose certain shapes over others because they fit better so your font design itself might change a little the reason why Georgia looks very good is because Matthew Carter was told this is the screen people are going to look at it on so go figure so he made sure it looks good better on Microsoft machines than on OS hand prints because it was designed with that in mind what are the opportunities for the Indian types that develop in terms of they being adopted or first I should finish it and then yeah there's the Indian type of font there is a font we call Rosetta which does a lot of world scripts and Rosetta Rosetta is in the Rosetta store R-O-S-E they have fonts in a lot of scripts they also have English scripts but are people buying it because it takes a lot of time unfortunately yeah a lot of people too like I used to get some work for R-O-S-E who wanted to localize their title I think it's something quite main actually more fun more to other words I can't remember what it was more taste, more fun and one more thing which was more and they basically wanted that first translated in English someone did that but then they needed a font which matched the font in which they put the tagline in English much like the IKEA thing and so you know that needed to be developed so that sort of stuff happens all the time mostly because of business because when they come to countries like ours in Vodafone for instance when they came they had to commission type cases in all major Indian languages silly question but we have localized newspapers all over the country they all used to say you know the fonts I mentioned were developed in the 60s they're using just the 5 year old fonts basically yeah because they also have a very strict production system and a lot of those production systems are not even calibrated to accept so they basically use the line-up type machines I don't know if you've heard of that these would be awesome free machines so yeah they just use the fonts that they would be used to so I mean new stuff happens but it's slow they're like 90% market share something like that it's actually a really good movie which might be worth seeing among others they have a really nice our long documentary about what is the name? what is the name? we're currently building a mobile application and going through this exercise making a color which basically represents certain attributes and therefore it kind of syncs up with the whole user experience I'm assuming there must be a similar exercise with fonts could you point me to so we don't have any resident experts on this front but is there any way to pick out a certain font given the context of our application and what the problems we are trying to solve so the problem is actually that's how we're doing it now all our gut feeling that this looks good and I think this will achieve our business objective so our approach to design is that we are trying to solve very specific business problems in the mobile phone context and things of that nature so color is simpler to the extent that there is enough information just because colors have very particular meanings in very particular context and the movement that context changes even a little bit the meaning of the color becomes red, bright might wear red in some parts of the country but at the same time red is violence and our brains are very sensitive about reading color based on what situation we are in so when you see a bright and red you don't get scared of it but if you see red on a sign board you get scared, when you walk into McDonald's which is all red you don't think of it as either a bright or something dangerous it's all quite valuable in the context of we will take a quick 10 minutes break and then we will come back and do the jam on that board thanks a lot