 I mean, Rush Limbaugh spoke about my website for like an hour, like five years ago or something and said I was bringing down Western civilization by like starting what I was doing. Naturally. It was great. Yeah. He's dead now. Yeah. And then he signed up and had a bunch of clients. And he's been divorced three times as well. So he's not exactly the poster child for a traditional relationship. This is Starb to Storefront, the podcast where we inspire entrepreneurship through truth. This is Yvonne Fadovich, founder of Modamly. Modamly is a mashup of the words modern family and Yvonne is working to redefine what that means in modern culture. This country as well as many around the world have long held up the ideals of the nuclear family as something to strive for. The problem with that is for many that ideal ranges anywhere from undesirable to unachievable. And for those of us who want to have children outside of the boy meets girl, they fall in love, they have kids, framework. The path was often complicated and almost never easy. Modamly is a service that allows for people to meet like minded individuals and have kids without necessarily developing a romantic connection. And while it probably won't be the end of Western civilization as we know it, it is undeniably groundbreaking. So listen in as we cover everything from how Yvonne defines the modern family, why he considers Modamly a hybrid between dating apps and the fertility industry, and why choosing who you have kids with is the most important decision you'll make in your life. Now, back to the episode. Welcome to the podcast. On today's show, we have Yvonne from Modamly. Thanks for joining. Thanks for having me. Tell everyone a little bit about your company. Sure. Hey, I'm Yvonne Fatovich. I'm the founder and CEO of Modamly. Modamly essentially connects people who are ready to start a family and have kids. Whether you're looking for a romantic relationship or a co-parent or known donors. We help connect people that are looking for sperm donors, egg donors, and surrogates. But instead of anonymous donors, we help you find unknown donors. So you get to meet them. The kid has some kind of relationship with them down the road. But the primary recipient parents are the legal parents and maintain full rights. The reason I wanted to have Yvonne on is because I love the concept of as dating apps sort of began maybe like eight years ago, 10 years ago, we were all like, okay, this makes perfect sense, right? And at the time, we were all, at least for me, early 20s. And I actually missed the boat because I met Natalia naturally, which sounds crazy, in the wilderness. And then when you brought up your company, I was like, this is so fascinating because it's like the ultimate long tail, right? It's the ultimate like, oh, wow, this makes perfect sense. It's like the next frontier of online dating. It's like obviously parenting. Yeah. It kind of came about with like, you know, this is right before Tinder came out like nine years ago, something like that, where we were all on like, okay, this is a stupid match. I was living in LA most of my adult life, but I moved back to New York, where I'm from the Jersey area originally. I was living in New York and figuring out where my next move is. I got laid off from a banking job during the financial crisis. And I was out to dinner with a bunch of my girlfriends. We were all like in our 30s. They were all still single, not married, no kids. And they were starting to feel like the pressures of the biological clock. And they were frustrated with, you know, the guys, most of the girls 35 were dating guys in their 20s who were, you know, not ready to settle down, not ready to have kids, or they were getting hit up, right? Like divorce guys that have kids that don't want more kids. They're all set. They just want to have fun. Right. So they're like, I still need to start a family and have a kid. And a couple of them in particular were like looking at alternate options like adoption or using a sperm donor or asking friends if like, you know, if, hey, if we're both 40, like, and we don't have kids or married, like let's just have a kid together. The pact. Basically, we've all heard this before. I've made a hundred of those. Yeah. And one of my friends in particular, she, you know, she would meet guys on OKCupid and go out with them. And after a few drinks at the bar in the first date, she'd be like, I want to have three kids in over the next five years. And, you know, not exactly what a guy wants to hear on the first date. But she looked right at me and she was like, she's like, Yvonne, I'm going to find someone that feels exactly the same way that I do. And I don't care like where I find them or how it works. And I made a total joke to the table saying it sounds like you're in a different kind of dating site called day to inseminate.com. That's funny. Well, that's everybody. Everybody laughed and a couple of girls laughed and they were like, wait, I would I would consider joining something like that. And that was kind of like the light bulb moment. And I started like exploring. I was I was thinking about doing my own thing, trying to, you know, start a company and came across the concept of co-parenting. And I saw there was a site back then. It was kind of it was co-parent.com. It was more of a message board site for like LGBT couples like looking to for sperm donors or something. And it was based in France. And so all their members were pretty much in France and the UK. And so what I did was I kind of combined that with like what people liked about OKCupid because they like profile pictures. They like compatibility questions. And instead of like sex and dating questions, it was more like parenting questions, lifestyle questions, you know, stuff like, do you see your kids going to public or private school? Like, what kind of health insurance do you have? Like, how do you want to raise your child the same religion that you grew up in? How important is that to you? So we'll introduce you to someone that feels the same way. You know, these days it would be like, are you vaccinated? Are you a Trump supporter? Like these are things that people like to know that they find out if they can have a child in a bucket. Right, right, right. Yeah. And that's kind of how it started. I mean, we started getting some media attention right away. And they were kind of always labeling it as like meet a stranger and have a baby next week online. And, you know, it wasn't really that. But it's catchy headline catchy headline. Got us some hits, got us some members. And and then we started getting requests for media like all over the world. They're like, how many babies have you had? How many? I'm like, we have like 20 members. We just started. I'm like, we're just launching in like one city right now. But I was getting we were getting pressed in like Norway and Sweden and England. Was this online? Were you guys online only like a website? Just a website. OK, so the website launched in February 2012. So 2011 was when I had that dinner and then I started basically building it. I hired a development shop out of New Jersey where I was Tristate area where I was living. But then what I realized later was that they the actual developers were in the Ukraine. Like it and I didn't know that at the beginning, but it didn't really matter. They were doing a pretty good job. And I really actually like I was pretty pleased with the first version of the site, but it wasn't mobile optimized. There was no app or anything like that. And I think apps are kind of just like getting there. And they were relatively new back then. And then we wrote out with that version for a couple of years. And then I switched to like a team in Columbia to try to make the next version of the site. And then I also worked with the team from India, Pakistan. Like I tried out a few different people, but the problem is when you try different teams, they start writing over the code for them. You can get like, you know, jumbled code and the hardest part. Right. I didn't come from a technical background. I wasn't a technical founder. Previous career I worked in Hollywood. Then the banking job that I had for a couple of years that was after Hollywood. So my experience was more like in, you know, finance and relationships with clients and managing, you know, that kind of stuff and dealing with people and, you know, sales essentially, like a lot of it. When you first launched, was it mostly women that were interested or like did something surprise you about the people that were coming on? So in my head, I go, OK, this is the perfect scenario for a woman and her gay friend. Right. Like my mind goes right there. That's like right down the middle, best of both worlds. And in that world, you could almost have like three co-parents, right? Or four, where there's like, everyone has a later in life, a relationship emerges and it's like safe. Yeah. Like Will and Grace having a kid together. Right. Basically. Back then, I think it was about 65% women, 20, something percent LGBT. So we were we were also getting guys because it is an issue for men as well, even though they can have a. How old are the guys when they trend a little bit older? So the women were in their 30s, approaching 40. The men were 30s, 40s and even 50s. You know, I mean, now I even have I have male clients now that are in their 60s. I have people that are 70 that never had kids that are in every situation is unique. I have people that are married where they waited too long to have kids. They were focused on career and the wife is too old now and the husband still wants to have a kid and has to get permission from the wife to like, you know, have a co-parent or donor surrogate or something like that. So every every situation was kind of unique. But yeah, yeah, I would say the primary client is a woman in her 30s approaching 40 that's still single that wants to explore alternate options. But actually 35% of our user base now is actually under 35. So I think there's I think there's a younger generation coming up like the Gen Zs, the people in their 20s that they identify in so many different ways that there are different genders, sexual orientations and just more fluid with their relationships. And they don't necessarily see themselves getting married to the same person for like 60 years or something. They, you know, maybe the person you have kids with is different from the person you grow old with later in life and travel around the world or whatever. And they've all grown up with divorce. They've seen a near 50% divorce rate where they're living in different homes anyway. And they could see the advantages of that and the disadvantages of that. And, you know, divorce can be good for the child where the parents weren't getting along. So they separate, but they do the conscious uncoupling the Gwyneth Paltrow quote where you stay together as friends for the benefit of the kid. You put whatever's best for the kid first. But a lot of divorces also end where, you know, mommy and daddy don't like each other for a while there. And they talk crap about each other and they spend a million dollars in legal fees trying to screw the other one over and the kid gets caught in the middle. So, and that was another inspiration kind of for this where I saw in my personal life other, you know, friends and family that were going through a bad divorce or kind of like rushed into marriage. And I just thought there was maybe a better option for that because women are in the workforce just as much as men now. It's not like 50 years ago where they had to find a husband and take care of the house and watch the kids. And now they're working, they're making just as much money. So they don't have to settle. They're pickier than ever. People are getting married later in life. People are having kids later in life. And, but there still is this time limit, this biological time limit that affects both men and women because even though men, like they're, you know, the quality of sperm declines as you get older. So, and most men don't want to be 70 years old raising a teenager. So you do have to have a kid at a certain point in your life. Totally. And when you first launched, how did you go about at least maybe pricing it or like developing some sort of model? Yeah. So for the first year, it was completely free. Just building community. I think the first piece of press we got, I had a small team of friends that were like year one kind of co-founders that are, that don't do anything anymore. But one worked in PR and she helped get a story in this website, PSFK, which was like a trends website that's read by a lot of journalists and kind of people in the PR world that look for interesting stories and things like that. And started talking about co-parenting and that got picked up by ABC News, New York. And then they did a story. And then I think that's also where like the Daily Mail, like in the UK and like the Dawgons, the paper in Sweden picked up the story. And so that's how we started getting users. When they picked it up though, was it something like they were like, okay, because in some way it's shock media, but it's not, right? It's like taboo, but it's safe. It's like also tech. It's also makes sense. They picked it up like it was this new thing that's never been thought of before. Like, you know, people having kids outside of marriage has been happening for thousands of years. Traditionally, it's been seen as a negative though. Like if you're going back to like church teachings and stuff like that, like having a child out of wedlock, the term bastard goes back eons and it was very much looked down upon to be a bastard child. Yeah, oh, I mean, Rush Limbaugh spoke about my website for like an hour, like five years ago or something and said I was bringing down Western civilization by like starting what I was doing. Naturally. It was great. Yeah, he's dead now, but like. And then he signed up and had a bunch of kids. And he's been divorced three times as well. So he's not exactly the poster child for a traditional relationship. But if anything, that makes the point too. It's like if he had other options that were available to him or if the societal lens was different, right, he could have just had three wonderful relationships and probably saved himself a lot of legal fees. Yeah, I think part of the, you know, the headlines were definitely sensational like meeting a stranger, have a kid, but you know, just like you meet someone on Tinder or something, they start off as a stranger. Anyone you meet online starts off as a stranger and then you meet them. It's not like you're gonna have a baby next week. You get to know them for six months a year. Right, there's gotta be a fit there. Right. And then people were finding romantic relationships. People were just finding like, hey, especially the media was, when we started doing the talk show kind of circuit, we were on like Anderson Cooper and Katie Couric interviewed me and we were on like Good Morning America and they were always looking for the straight man, the straight woman that just wanted to be friends and have a kid together. And I didn't have any example like that. And so the only examples that I found was like a gay man, straight woman, friends, but they're like, oh, that, you know, LGBTs have to do that. That's not a big story. We wanna find like the two straight people. So I lost a couple of opportunities or they took a long time to happen until I was able to find someone like that because I found that most of the straight people on there, there was an attempt at a romantic relationship. So, you know, there are people finding, they're just finding, they're finding someone like mine that kind of shares a vision and value system for how they wanna raise kids. And they're like, well, you know, if I like you enough to have a kid with you, I'm relatively attracted to you, then like, let's try a relationship. And then the platonic co-parenting aspect was mostly, and I've seen, you know, dozens of these kinds of relationships happen, the successful ones, it's usually like gay man, straight woman, lesbian couple, a straight guy. As you know, there was another case where we had a guy who, you know, he was probably around 50 or so and he found a lesbian couple in Florida and they ended up having two kids and they live now right next to each other. And like, they're like a total modern family and they're as happy as can be. And I wish- Mud amily. Yeah, it's a mud amily. I really, some of my friends now are like coining the terms because now they're seeing things like this in their life. One of the girls, my friends, that was an inspiration for the website. She ended up dating a younger guy, getting pregnant and giving him the option of like, we can still date and you can be the father or you can be my sperm donor and we can just be friends or something like that. And I believe he chose just to be friends and the sperm donor and she had the baby on her own. And then a couple of years later, she had, she came back to him to have another baby and he said, yes, and now she has two. And he's essentially like a known donor but they're friends. But you see these different, all these different versions of family and then my friends are like, it's a mud amily. Oh yeah, they mud amilyed it up. I'm like, I'm like, yeah, that sounds- Now it's a verb. Yeah, now it's a verb. So now you know you got something when it's turned into a saying or- How many children is mud amily responsible for now? There've been over 300 that I'm aware of. Yeah, I would say half of that is known donors and the other half is co-parents and romantic relationships with people. Like there was one story, a woman that was in the Wall Street Journal in a Guardian article, she was looking for a sperm donor. She met a guy and they basically just started dating and now they're together. They have a baby that's the two or three years old now. So they're still dating? Yeah, they're together. Now they're in a traditional relationship. So that's also I think the billion dollar opportunity because I think connecting sperm donors and surrogates and egg donors, I think that's a great multi-million dollar business potentially if done the right way. Our concierge business is probably half our revenue right now where I'm personally helping people find their hands on. But I'm trying to develop a way to make it where we can just recommend someone that's, it's doing that now, but I need to make it better. It's right now it's just like a basic match recommendation system, but we get so much data on people. I know your age, I know where you live, I know you went to college, I know where you work. We connected Spotify now, like I know what music you like, what TV shows you like and using all that to make better matches I think is the future of that. But I think there's millions of people out there that are frustrated with the mainstream apps like Bumble, Tinder, that are still having that problem of not meeting anyone serious that's ready to start a family. They're more casual hookup apps and guys just looking to have fun. They trend a lot younger. So I think people in their 30s and 40s that are still not in a committed relationship or feeling the pressures to find someone to have a child with. Whether they get married or not, that's up to them. I think there's like a seismic shift in how people kind of view what is a family. Like a family doesn't necessarily have to mean like husband and wife and 2.5 kids and living in a white picket fence house. It's like there's so many different versions of it and with divorce and relationships changing, you get used to it. So the parents get divorced, they're still raising a kid together, they get into new relationships and that person becomes like a stepdad or a great uncle role or whatever you wanna call it. And I think the kids are used to this as long as what they don't want is a revolving door of like different guy every week showing up. We don't know what mommy's doing on Tuesday night. You need some consistency there. Consistency, support. They just need kind of love and encouragement and consistency and they become friends with the person, they love the person, they... Is there a play there? So like when you talk about the stepparent market, so I think about it like, it's probably hard to find someone to date as a stepparent, but if you could, it's almost like, if you break it down, people are just looking for some form of break. You mean a single parent or a stepparent? No, no, like if I'm someone who had a child already and I'm looking to date again. Yeah, single parents meet. Okay. That's a thing, yeah. It's a thing. Yeah, you're right that people with kids do have trouble dating and a lot of times they wanna find other people with kids. I mean, there is, I don't know how successful it is, but there's a site called single parents meet that does that. So it's already a thing. Yeah, yeah. That was the thing I think before or right around maybe the same time. Yeah. Hang on, hang on. If you're not subscribed, can you go ahead and do that right now before we get on with the video? Helps us out tremendously. That's all we ask and we're back. I was just thinking like, I've never met a successful, like I've never known anybody, at least my friends that had like a stepdad that they liked. Yeah. They tolerated. Right, right. And maybe respected a little. I have, but only like, it depends on when they come into their lives. Right. I knew. Like the younger, the better. The younger, the better. Yeah, okay. I knew a family that the mom died before like the boy was really even old enough to know her and his dad remarried and you would never know it from his relationship with his stepmother that they were not biologically related. Right. Because they were so close and she really did view him as her son. Yeah. That's gonna be a unique case because his mother passed away. So she's not like. Right. She didn't. Not in his life. She didn't like abandon him or something like that. I mean, look, I'm a stepdad. I've been in a relationship for almost 10 years now with a woman that has two kids from divorce. So I've been in their lives since, you know, they were like six and eight or something. Now they're like 18 and 16. And I think they like me. I never played the role of like, I'm your father now. Like, I'm, I think I'm respected in my opinion matters, but maybe I'm like an older brother or like, you know, an authority figure. But, you know, but they, their dad is still in their lives. So like, I didn't want to like compete with that. Or like, I'm like, you guys have a dad like let him, he wants to be involved. So that's totally fine with me. But I think, I think there was room for multiple people. You know, kids love having, having a support system. And they love having someone to go do. And they love each parent fulfills like a different need for them. You know, one is helping them with their homework. One helps them get better at sports. One's to talk about their girlfriend relationships or broken relationships. And I think there's a role for like multiple people out there. And we're seeing, I think we're seeing more and more of that. Or just like the family, like the modern families, the modemily is growing. So it's, I think it's just gonna head more in that direction. And this is the thing that's happening. This is not just like an American problem or issue. Like, this is a problem in Europe. People are waiting to have kids, getting married longer. In Asia, I did a, one time I went to Silicon Valley to do like a pitch to a large group of people. And this Japanese VC guy came up to me afterwards. He goes, I think this can be really big in Asia because Japan does really big problem. Everyone is so serious and they wanna get away from their parents or to like domineering. And it's really hard to meet and marry someone and find someone. And he's like, and the same problem in China where they had the one child policy for so long. And now there's like 60% men and 40. So there's a shortage of women and they're having trouble pairing off because, and same thing with Korea. Like they have really domineering parents and the kids are feeling tremendous pressure to find someone and be successful and fulfill all the dreams that their parents have. Yeah, for everything. You have to get it approved as well. Exactly, yeah. I think we're kind of going back. You know, like in India, they're still doing the- Arranged marriages. Arranged marriages, but, and Madhyaan Lee Khan's the air just kind of like this too where- It's always been a simulation. Yeah. Since the beginning. And now it's just more obvious with more data. I think everyone could use a helper like that, a facilitator to help you. And even when you're young in your 20s, because everyone, when they're graduating from colleges, when I'm 30, I'll probably get married and have a couple of kids by then and I'll be a vice president and whatever, some firm. And 30 comes around and you're like, I don't feel much different than I did five or six years ago. Maybe when I'm 35 or 40, I'll do that. And then half the people find someone and have a kid around that time but then you get to 35, 40. There's still millions of people that are like, oh my God, especially the women. They're like, I'm almost 40. I don't even know how good my eggs are anymore. I have to find someone to have a kid with or it's not gonna happen. This is not something I can keep pushing off. And I think if you have someone on your side, that's kind of like your advocate and has deep conversations with you and knows who would be a good partner for you and what type of relationship you're looking for and constantly have that in your head instead of just kind of having fun and trying to get, move up the corporate ladder or stuff like that. But I think it's an important, if not one of the most important, who you have kids with is the most important decision you'll make in your life. And if you get married or not married, it could be the best deal or the worst deal that you make in your life, basically. No pressure. Yeah, no pressure. Well, on that note, one of the things that I saw was that you help couples with a co-parenting agreement. Is that correct? Yeah. What's the legality behind that and how did you even go about drafting something like that? We found some examples online and then actually work with modern family attorneys that do the actual, I don't, we don't do it ourselves. We provide them with a template, but we also recommend that they see an attorney to draft the co-parenting agreement, which is kind of a lot like a pre-nup or something like that, where you discuss, it can be as broad or basic as what the custody arrangement's gonna be. Are we gonna live together? Are we gonna live close by? Are we gonna be 50-50? Who's responsible for what financially? What the health insurance situation is like? And it can be as in-depth that if someone has a lot of assets or as wealthy, it could be estate planning, it can be life insurance, it can be what happens. I have co-parents now that are quite wealthy or people looking to co-parent and they're like, I'm getting older. I'm thinking of what's gonna happen to all this when I'm not here anymore. Is it gonna go to my brother's kids or my sister's kids? I've already paid for their college and I haven't paid for college for my own kid and I wanna have someone to get this to and I wanna have my own child to be able to do this and it involves conversations with the lawyers and accountants and things like that. There's a whole community of people that are there to help with that. Because it's a much more involved process than like you mentioned before, your average dating app is, you just might hook up or whatever, but this is like, you're committing to the life of a human being over the course of this so it should be a little bit more complicated, I would think. Yeah, I mean, totally. Especially it's not as ironclad as say, a marriage or divorce, like if the co-parents decide not to be friends, you don't have to give that person 50% of whatever you made during that time, but I think the more detail you can put in there and there is a situation that you have to go to court or something like that, in most states, the judge will look at what the intention was and will do, make a ruling that's in the best interest of the child. But it's good to have as much documentation out there to show what you guys were intending to do because I've had, and not even my family clients, but just people out there in the world because now there's like, we have like probably six competitors out there that are doing something similar, not as well I would say, but similar. So, but I've seen stories where, say in Florida, there was a case where a lesbian couple asked their best friend guy who's gay to father their children and he was assuming they were gonna co-parent. They had no paperwork, nothing like that. They got pregnant and he was envisioning like taking the kid to Italy to visit his mother in the summer times and all that and then like halfway through the pregnancy they're like, wait a minute, like you're not gonna be a co-parent, you're just the donor. And he was like, well, that's not what I signed up for. And then he sued them and it took a few years and you know, best friends turned into enemies and now they're I think friends again. But then they resolved it where it was the first case where now there's three parents on the birth certificate. And the birth certificate thing is important, like in California too, it matters how you get pregnant. Did you get pregnant at home? Did you get pregnant at the doctor's office? Did you sign a piece of paper? Did you not sign a piece of paper? That can matter if you're responsible for child support or you're just a donor. And every state is different. So I think the laws have a long way to actually catch up. California, it's pretty liberal, but some states, they don't recognize like, a lesbian couple in many states still can't be, the two moms can't be on the birth certificate. And so I think there needs to be some kind of federal levels. Yeah, so when you said the first case with three parents on the birth certificate, are we talking like first case ever? I think, well, definitely in Florida and I think nationally. And this was probably like five, six years ago or something like that. And since then there have been more cases like that in different states. I had a case also in Canada where a couple of those married, they couldn't have kids. Wife gave them permission to have a co-parent. They didn't sign any paperwork, they rushed into it as well. Like we recommend people get to know each other for at least six months to a year or more. Sure. These people waited like a month and they didn't really know each other. She got pregnant and then as she was pregnant, she was like, oh, actually, I don't really want a 50-50 co-parent. Like maybe you can see him like once a month or something like that. And he's like, that's not what I signed up for. Right, right. And then they went to court and I believe they were, I think they got it to like 70, 30 or something like that. I think getting to know the person, developing a trust is that most important thing and just realize who you're dealing with. Ideally the best situations is where this person ends up as a close friend of yours. And someone that you trust and you talk to every day and you're both there for the same purpose of doing what's best for your child. The one thing we talked about at the Tennis Club was so Yvonne used to be in television and stuff. And so the whole concept of creating a television show around this concept. And so it's almost like Black Mirror meets the one, but meets like a dating show that we see. Modern family. Yeah, literally. Modern family. But as a really cool representation of probably what I view as the future of this country at a minimum, maybe the world. And then also just like an amazing opportunity to hype up the platform and show people how it works. Because I think like even today, right? Or like I was introducing Nick to your company and it was like, what is this? And then he was like all of a sudden like, oh, this makes perfect sense. And so it's this thing where I think once people see it, they can't unsee it. And I think once you hear your story, it opens up this chamber of like, oh, this is actually probably what the world is gonna be like in not the distant future. Like I would say like your stepchildren are probably that. Yeah, exactly that generation. They view it that way. I mean, I think the next iteration of my app now. And so we were a website for many years and we just had the apps come out last year. So now it's getting adopted even more by younger people. As I said before, the younger generation, they see family as a different way. Their friends are their family. They want a community and they want people that they're close to that they can rely on and maybe they'll have kids with one of these people. And I think they just wanna explore, make connections with people that are feeling the same way and have similar ideas in terms of how they wanna do this. I think that's where you can get to like, tens of millions of users around the world because people just wanna connect. And now is never a better time to connect with people from Europe, from Asia, from South America. Like just with the internet, you can talk to anyone around the world. And I think people are more open than ever. I have clients in London that are like, oh, I could co-parent with someone in New York or LA. Like I like it there, I go there once in a while. And I have people that have met someone in the United States and they went down to like Columbia and started co-parenting with someone that they met down there. And like I have women in South America that wanna come up here and like meet someone. Like it's a global thing. And I think people are starting to change the ways that they look at family and they don't think it has to be that traditional model all the time. I'm not saying traditional model is bad. I'm just saying there's alternate options. It's not for everybody. I don't think we're gonna change thousands of years of how the world has been doing things. Well, the view is like there's shame in the untraditional model. And I think that needs to die. We've seen divorces too much to say, okay, is it working? The bastard child thing from like, the middle ages or something, I think that's not as prevalent as it used to be. It's not a mark that's gonna haunt you your entire life. Yeah, exactly. I've seen all those TV shows as well. Oh yeah. Game of Thrones. Game of Thrones. Exactly. And the reality world has caught on to this. We consulted on a couple of shows already. That last year that Fox did a show called Labor of Love that we helped find the casting for and I met with them a few times to kind of tell them how I do the process and all that. I don't think it did that well, but like they also sold that show all over the world. And there was a version that came out last month in England called Strangers Having Babies or I think it was called. The one in America was basically like the Bachelorette, a woman that has everything except for the baby. Introduced her to 15 guys, they're all living in a house together. She knocks one of them out every week. And then at the end, she decides, the person she wants to have a baby with, whether it's a romantic or not. Knocks them out and then gets knocked up. Then gets knocked up. She ended up knocking. She ended up, just like the Bachelorette, they actually don't get married and nothing ever happened. And then the English version, they followed three women who were like going on dates meeting guys to potentially co-parent with. And there's a few other ones that have been scripted versions of it, but it's never really been done the right way. And lots of movies too. And there's actually another one that just came out called Together Together where I've helped plenty of 40 year old men who decided to become a single parent by choice, have, find them an egg donor in surrogate. In this movie with Ed Helms, he's like a 40 year old guy that just never had kids, never found someone. So he decides to have a baby on his own with like a 20 something surrogate. He becomes friends with the surrogate. He starts to like the surrogate and I actually haven't seen the movie so I don't know how it ends, but it's pretty well reviewed and I'll check that out soon. I remember seeing that on my queue for whatever streaming service it was on. Never heard about it before. Yeah, recently it just came out like weeks ago. I think it's a paper view now and then it'll be on streaming service soon. It seems like that's like a perfect, excuse the term marriage for you in your Hollywood past and your current Madame Lee present, consulting on TV shows and helping them find stuff like this. Was this something that came about because of the connections that you made while working in the industry? Yeah, I mean, so, you know, I basically left Hollywood in terms of like working day to day in 2007, I believe. I worked at the company called Three Arts before an endeavor. And yeah, I came back to, I actually wanted my, I was an assistant at Endeavor to one of the larger reality show agents. So they ended up being my agency for, because we did get approached to do shows about the company, about our clients. That show never sold. But yeah, it was through working in Hollywood, I guess, I knew people that then they approached me to do something like that. Yeah, and I think we'll do more of that. There was a version where they wanted me to be like the millionaire matchmaker basically for like co-parents and stuff like that. There was even, there's some video footage of, I recruited my sister who lives here too, who's an actress too, and where we were like a brother-sister team matching people. I needed like a female partner or something like that, but she wasn't even really that into it. Yeah, but I haven't done one in a couple of years, but I think it'll come up. I imagine you could just like, in some way you're matching these people, and so you could literally just like follow their journey and create a pilot real quick. Yeah, well, that's the problem was, you know, if you're getting to know someone for like six months, two year, and then you're getting pregnant for nine months or whatever, that's a long production schedule. You want to be there for the key moments. There was a documentary that BBC did, more long form where they basically followed people for like two years. Then when they try to think about actually how are we going to produce this and make this, they're like, wait a minute, maybe we should just focus on the first dates. Like, you know, maybe we should just not cut out the year-long courting process because that just takes too long to film. So do you focus on like one woman or three situations where we follow them? Maybe they'll have success, maybe they won't. What they really wanted was like, everything wrapped up in one episode, new couple every week, has a baby every week. I'm like, guys, that's almost impossible to make happen. I think that was the challenge is finding a great format. That's why that Bachelorette challenge was kind of, everyone understands that, you know, that show has been a big success and that they gave it a try, but you know, I don't think it did great, but I think that's just the beginning of what's out there. And the network, you know, Lifetime, TLC, like they're basically looking for a show like this like every season. Yeah, yeah. And are you still raising capital? I have some angels interested. They all want a VC to lead the round. I guess I'm just not good at presenting to like VCs because I'm like a single. Do they get it? Some get it, some don't. Some see it as just a dating app and a lot of people don't invest in dating apps because they feel like there's a million of them and they're a little bit different. But I see us as kind of like a hybrid between, you know, a dating app and the fertility industry where all of our clients need services or they need to be educated or be made aware of services such as egg freezing, IVF financing, surrogacy, genetic testing, fertility wellness, medical device companies, devices that you can do a home insemination. So we've had all these kind of companies advertised on our homepage at one time or another. So I think they're still trying to figure out and I've been approached by some pretty, you know, well-known VCs, the ones that invested in like Facebook and Uber and things like that. And they're like, I think what you're doing is amazing. They're like, in its current version, it's not something that they look for the ideas that you can reach a billion people, like to change the world. I'm like, I think this can change the world. I don't know if we can get to a billion people, but I think we can make a billion dollars because the fertility industry is a $40 billion market. Dating app markets like a 10 or 11 billion dollar, you know, market. I think we're a niche that all the, you know, the four or five major companies that have all the dating apps don't have. And I think we can use their infrastructure to grow. But I think there's still want me to prove that, you know, I think what I've proven that is that there is a market. We've had success. We've had babies born. We've made thousands of connections, but we still only have like 40,000 people where we don't have like 100 million people or something like that. But I think we can get to that. And like you said, like, I think I need to create more content. I need to like show the success stories. I need to show how this works. I shared with you that like animated tour thing. I mean, that thing was shown just kind of like how the concept of co-parenting works, that was shown on media like all over the world, like over the years. That was probably the best like two grand I spent on anything like where it was just kind of initially meant to just be like an instructional, you know, about us kind of video that turned out to be a great piece of content that's been, you know, shown tens of thousands of times around the world. The way I look at it is there's a real societal fabric that you're touching on. And I think you're giving people permission, even if they don't join your platform by really going big on the marketing or just the content, it gives them permission to feel safe. Like I know a lot of co-parents, some of them are like Latino. And so in the Catholic culture, this is like the worst case scenario in the Indian culture, worst case scenario, right? But it works like the child's fine. Yeah, the child's, couldn't be happier. And so it's like, this obviously works, right? If the metric is child success, then it's like this is totally a thing people can achieve. And I think it's just people are realizing that having a kid and doing it on your own is one, very expensive, two, very time consuming, and they want a partner. And we are seeing more people being single moms and dads by choice. And that's great, but I think some of them have, you know, great careers and they make good money and they can afford to do that. And not everywhere you can afford to do that. People that need partners and someone to share the weight of raising a child successfully is something, and one of the top issues why people are waiting longer, I think they feel the financial pressures are like, they're like, wait a minute, I still have student debt. I have credit card debt. I feel like I'm breaking even myself and I'm just taking care of myself right now. How can I bring a child into this world? And I want to give that child the best. I don't want to, you know, I want to send them to private school. I want to take them to Europe or Asia or wherever. And they want to feel like till they're ready or they're in a better place, but then what they start to realize is like, you're never going to feel ready. You're never going to be, you just sometimes- Entrepreneurship in a nutshell. Right, exactly. You don't know what the- You'll never be there. Yeah, basically. You can't just keep waiting for like the perfect time. So you sometimes you just have to dive in and like take that leap of faith and things work out. And you find it's not as bad as you thought it was going to be. Or, and sometimes you find benefits that you never thought you'd have until you, you know, you always feel like when you make a choice or you choose the person that you're going to have kids with, you're like, Oh, I'm shouting the door on like thousands of other options. And I'm like, who knows what could have happened? But like, then you end up doing nothing. Analysis paralysis. Well, yeah, tell everyone where they can find you on your website and sign up. Yeah, you can just go to modamely.com, modamely short for modern family. And you can go to the app stores or just the website and evan at modamely.com if you feel like talking to me. The future is here. I love it. Thanks guys. We're living in a modamely world. I hope so. Well, thanks for joining. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me guys. This was fun.