 Well, to seal the breakfast and plus TV Africa, let's quickly look at the session from the World Bank. The World Bank has described the level and quality of infrastructure in Nigeria as low, and that's despite the federal government's claim of borrowing to finance infrastructure in Nigeria. And we know every other time that that's the case, especially with repatriated funds. Well, in its Nigerian public finance review report, the World Bank said that Nigeria's physical infrastructure gap would likely reach $3 trillion in the next 30 years. According to the reports, it says that the level and quality of Nigeria's infrastructure qualities low, with the country ranked 132 out of 137 countries for infrastructure, in the 2018 Global Competitive Index, other than Nigeria's development outcome were among the lowest globally, which indicated a high public spending needs. In September, while speaking of the inauguration of the presidential committee on the economy in the federal capital territory, Bohari explained that the rationale behind Nigeria's huge debt estimated at over $41 trillion, incurred by the federal government, says that the loan when necessary to execute infrastructure development, a paradox you may call it, running us this morning for an in-depth analysis, it's Nika Gule, a public affairs analyst, all the way from Benway. Has Benway this morning, Nika Gule? Very calm, and we are getting ready for the elections in 2023. No, that's great. And I'm sure that you have your PVC already. I have my PVC, which was in debt, but now transferred to my local government here in Benway. And I'll be here to vote. That's quite impressive. Let's quickly get into the crux of the matter. How would you describe the situation? The government has over time said that the reason for all of the borrowings, including the recovered funds, is so that we can, you know, further expand it on our infrastructure. But right now, the World Bank is saying that it probably might take us 300 years to get to that point. Absolutely. The World Bank has described the problem succinctly. I mean, we are in Nigeria. It's not as if we're in another country and we need the Nigerian government to tell us what is happening in Nigeria. We're Nigerians. We're Nigeria. We are filling the infrastructure deficit because the roads are not there. The power is not there. The water is not there. The rail lines are not there. I mean, the schools are not there. The hospitals are not there. We are seeing it. So regardless of what the federal government tells us, we are seeing this thing as clear as day and night. We're experiencing it. Everybody is feeling a pinch. It would take a census of Nigerians today and you say, how many people had electricity in their homes all the night long to this morning? You are going to get only a few percentage of Nigerians that will say they had that privilege. If you take a census of Nigerians and say, do you have public water supply into your home? Only a few will agree to that. The same with the roads and everything. So the World Bank has described the problem correctly. Nigeria has a very serious infrastructure deficit. But I think what now needs to happen is that we already know the problem. The government is also aware of the problem. We Nigerians are feeling the problem. The question is, what do we now do to close this deficit? That is the question that needs answering, Mersi. Okay. We will definitely get to the point where we talk about how to close the deficit. But let's look at the deficit. We will create a federal system of government and we have three tiers of government. Now recently, there's also another report about multi-dimensional poverty and 72%. When we talk about infrastructure, it includes roads. What have you in our rural communities? So if you have 72% of Nigerians in rural community or the rural community in experiencing multi-dimensional poverty, do we have to blame that on the federal government? No. We don't have to blame it only on the federal government. We need to blame it on all the tiers of government because like you mentioned roads. In Nigeria, there are roads that are federal roads. Some are state roads and some are local government roads. So for instance, if the federal roads were left in the state of dilapidation as they are now and the state roads were clean, good, mutatable, just as local government, we will be talking about the federal government, but there's no road in Nigeria that is clean. The state roads are in a total state of disrepair as much as the federal roads and the local government roads. So the government across the tiers are not doing what they are expected to do, but there is something that makes the federal government to be more culpable and that is because it is only the federal government that has got law enforcement under its control. You see any country you go to and you see the semblance of sanity. You see development. You see infrastructure. You see everything working well. Check the law enforcement in that country is going to be very strange. So if you go to the Canada, the United States, the UK, the Germany, the France, the Australia, so this world, their law enforcement is so strong that you look at the policeman work heated in a fine BMW or a smart car, work paid, you yourself you advise yourself you are not going to mess with him. So the federal government has law enforcement under its control. Recently the president, President Muhammad Uguwari, was at a conference lamenting that he is aware that when monies go to the states and local governments, that the governors make the local government chairman to sign that they have taken money that they did not take. He is the president. He has the inspector general of police at his command. He has the EFCC. He has the ICPC. He has the DIA. He has the MIA. He has all the law enforcement, the prisons, everything under his control. Why is he not unleashing it on those governors that he knows are chopping local government money and making local government chairman to sign that they have received the money? So this is what is making the federal government to take more of the blame. They actually share in the greater blame than the other tires of government. And it is one of the reasons why we are saying let law enforcement also be devolved. Let it go down to the state and local governments. But don't we think that that would be another system of governance that we'll be practicing? Because realistically, we're talking about this, we say infrastructure gap or at the pace which the country is developing in terms of infrastructure is low, that's the thoughts of the World Bank. And in current reality, if you live in Nigeria, you probably want to agree with that. But so in a state, you have the judiciary, the legislatures, the legislative arm of government, the judiciary and the executive. Why should the federal government be interfering in the affairs of the state when you have this arm of government in the state that should check the excesses of the executive? So there's a lacune and somewhere, I mean you have correctly described the structure of the state and local governments that the states have the judiciary and they also have the legislative arms of government, which is correct. But there's a lacune and then lacune is that if someone is caught committing a crime, for instance, he is taking money that is meant for infrastructure and he's misappropriating or accurately embezzling this money. The first thing that happens is that that man should be a judge. He should be a judge. He should be a judge. He should be a judge. He should be a judge. The first thing that happens is that the man should be arrested by the police. The police is under the control of the federal government. So it is only when the man has been arrested because he has committed a criminal offence that the judiciary will even come in. It is the police that will charge him to court. So if the police are not doing their work, then how can that man get to court? Or even if that man gets to court, and the police, who are the prosecutors, are not sending that man, I mean, following up on that case and dropping the bombshell evidence that is needed by the court to convict that man and lock him up in prison, then what can the judiciary do? Also, the EFCC can also come in if there is a corrupt, you know, practice by anybody. The ICPC is the one that should arrest someone who is in public office and is corrupt. All these agencies are under the federal government. This one was saying, devolve these things to the state. Let the states also have their police so that law enforcement begins from the prevention and the enforcement, which is by the police, before we even go to the judiciary. And that is why this whole structure is on the front panel. And I'd like to ask, I remember vividly that, you know, about in 2021, the budget, the government had said that it was spending 94.1% in implementation of infrastructure and human capital. Of course, fast forward to 2020 through 2022, the government also stated reason why they spent 3.53 trillion dollars on infrastructure. Is it that where all of this amount, are we really spending it or what exactly is it going to? Okay, so there is something here that needs to change, messy. You see, in the colonial days and the post-independence days, it was only government that had capital to be able to execute infrastructure projects. So you will see the government doing roads, doing rail, doing airports, doing water, doing power projects and all of that, gas projects. But we are now in the 21st century. In the 21st century, capital for projects, for infrastructure projects, is no longer with government, it's with the private sector. There are hedge funds, there are equity funds, there are even individuals like the big guests and the Jeff Bezos of this world that have more money than... Oh well, Nika Gule, unfortunately, we seem to have a disconnection with you. But I was hoping that you would definitely answer the question of how we close the infrastructural deficit gap that we're faced with. Quickly, Nika Gule, can you hear me? Nika, we have to go now. Unfortunately, we don't have you on the line to share your thoughts. But we hope that this conversation will continue some other time. We appreciate you for being part of the show this morning. And thank you so much for tuning in from 7 o'clock up until this moment. We'll definitely return tomorrow. We promise this to be exciting and very interesting as well. If you missed out on any part of it, it would be great to follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. Subscribe to our YouTube channel. It's a plus TV Africa and plus TV Africa lifestyle. My name is Messi Ibukbo. We join the newsroom at 9 o'clock for the news brief. Stay with us.