 Greetings, everyone. Welcome back to the last Director Q&A session. This is our great pleasure to welcome Director Chen Xinyi, a singing Chen, one of the most active, versatile, and multi-dimensional filmmakers in Taiwan today. Her works are known for being highly stylized and fast-paced, with focuses on issues in art, culture, and social issues. Last week, we screened 10 of her most important films. This, I would say, is the biggest director series that we have ever held. Based on the subject matters and themes of these films, we have divided them into two major categories. One focuses on social concern, and the other on arts in focus. So, the six films included in the social concern 社会关怀 are 广道 2000, 国民党 2007, The Clock 2011, The Pig 2013, Body Talk 2017, and A Real Meal The Same Year. The four included in the arts in focus 艺术焦点 include Years Switch Off and On 2011, The Walkers 2014, Mountain Spirits 2015, and The Moving Tent 2018. We have shown her critically acclaimed first feature film, for example, Bondode, 我叫阿明朗, you can see the posters at her background, which was shot on a 16-millimeter camera. At the age of only 27, she received numerous awards because of this film, such as Best Film and Best New Directors, both in Taiwan and also internationally. In 2007, her film, 国民党流浪神狗人, was again widely praised, nominated, or invited to more than 30 film festivals worldwide, from Berlin International Film Festivals, to Pusan International Film Festival, and the Friberg Film Festival in Switzerland. So, then you see the amazing documentary, The Walkers. It is another important work of hers. It took her 10 years to shoot, to recall the Legend Ling Dance Theatre, 无够舞蹈剧场. The Walker, again, won her countless Best Documentary Awards worldwide. So, for such a quite rare example, because it's an art documentary. So, it shouldn't attract a lot of attention, I mean, in terms of box office return, but actually, it has created a rarely seen case of box office success. We can see if you look at all these different kind of works, she has done. You can see she works on a wide range of subject matters, such as homeless people, poverty, aging, Alzheimer, social movement, theatre, dance, and arts. She also covered various genres, from documentaries, short films, to full-length feature films. So, no matter what kind of subject matter, or genre, or her films, demonstrate a strong sense of human dignity, sincerity, and idealism, she uses her camera to provide social critique about inequality, inequality, poverty, aging, and actually, the essence of beauty in life. Before we start today's Q&A session, I would like to thank our funders, the Ministry of Culture, the Cultural Division at the TRO in the UK, and also, of course, Taiwan Film and Audio Visual Institute, for their support. Without their generous funding and continuous backing, it would not have been possible to launch such an ambitious project. So, I would also need to remind you, this is a recorded session. The chat function is open now. Please make sure you post your question, you know, and join in the conversation. Okay. Then, Xiao Yi will collate the question and present them to Director Chen. Of course, you can also see Josh is on standby. He's our interpreter. He will help out all the translation. May I ask you to just put your hands together, put your microphone on, just say a big welcome to Director Chen. As the chair, I have the privilege of asking the first two questions. Thank you very much. And I will ask the question first in Chinese, so to allow the director to have some time to digest it and then in English. Director Chen, welcome. I will use Chinese first, then English. So, welcome. We are honored to invite you to share your movie life with us. So, as the host today, I will ask two questions first, then our audience will open for the audience to ask questions. Okay. So, the first question, Director Chen, in your movie, there are two very important, parallel themes. One is Taiwan's performance art, of course, there is visual art. And one is a kind of observation and criticism about the social issue. These two can be said to be very important themes in the movie creation. Can you please explain why these two themes are so important to you? So, what do you want to express? And I will ask in English. Okay. There seem to have two major elements in your films. One is the focus on Taiwan's performing arts. The other is a kind of social critique and observation of Taiwan's social issues. Those two major themes in your film, could you elaborate a little bit why they are so important to you and what do you want to express? Thank you, Director Chen. This may have something to do with my movie. Because I am not a movie star. I read an ad in college. When I was in college, I went to work as a very important director in Taiwan, Director Huang Mingchuan. So, all the technical components of the film were studied in the studio. Because Director Huang was in contact with Taiwan's potential arts, in the 1990s, Taiwan had just been closed for a long time. Closing for a long time means that the entire cultural circle, whether it's underground or underground, or all the cultural elements, because of the relationship between the two, they are all together. They have a very strong potential. So, I was in contact with Director Huang Mingchuan, a large number of potential artists or artists. And then, at that time, I started writing some scripts when I was in college. I wanted to create this part. So, in this process, it means that, except for me, I may be concerned about the life of the lower-level characters, or the condition of the small characters, and at the same time, I am concerned about whether Taiwan may not be as clear at that time as performing arts, or visual arts, or voice arts, or all kinds of arts. There is not such a strict separation. Because the entire cultural circle is in the state of being together. So, it means that these two lines are gradually formed at that time. Thank you. So, Director Chen's answer to this first question was partly to say, actually, that she started out in university. She didn't read film at university. She was in the advertising department. Advertising was her major at university. But her first experience of working in film was with a director called Huang Mingchuan, who was an important director in Taiwan. So, in his studio, that's where Director Chen started to learn her craft. And in the 1990s, following the opening up of Taiwan, the end of martial law, at the end of the 80s. So, in the 90s, then, Director Chen was explaining how this new freedom, which came about, had a huge impact on the arts, where underground art, overground art, performing audio visual art, it all kind of came crashing together in this big mix of people exploring art and exploring freedom at the same time. And that was something which made a big impact on her, because it was such a new scene and a fresh scene, and it hadn't actually started to separate into different spheres yet. While at the same time, something that Director Chen says was important to her was also taking note of some of the people that society had forgotten about, or people at the lower end of society, some of the kind of the left out people. And actually, then film was something that while she was saying, I think while she was still at university, she started to write scripts herself. So despite reading advertising in university, actually, she started to write her own scripts quite early on already. And then through the experience with Huang Mingchuan, started to gain that film-making experience as well. And then, when I started to enter the film circle, I started to make my own films, not from the documentary, but from the first film, which is the first film of my name, Minglai. At that time, the Taiwanese film, this was shot in 1999, and at that time, the Taiwanese film was in an understated state, maybe less than ten films a year, and then maybe five or six films were already a lot. So after the film was shot, she had won some awards at the International Film Festival, or won some awards, but in terms of the Taiwanese film environment, she was still at the bottom. At that time, she had quite a lot of pressure, although it was the first film, but she seemed to have already been a director of a Taiwanese film, which was a bad choice. No one wanted to watch a Taiwanese film in such a big environment. So at that time, because she was the first film, after the first film won some awards, or won some attention, I also had a self-doubt towards the creation. That is to say, if the Taiwanese film, the Taiwanese audience didn't want to watch a Taiwanese film, then I still had to continue filming films. So what should I do, continue to create this path, or continue to go down? And then in this whole, it's like a little bit, I don't know where the next step is in the state, those things that I have been interested in for a long time, whether they are artists or art groups, or those art activities that I am interested in, I still continue to pay attention to them. Then at some point, I first took a picture of Mr. Lin Lijun with a dance artist called Kinkanoko, a dance artist who appeared in the film. He is Japanese. And then Kinkanoko and Mr. Lin Lijun, after I finished filming my film, after looking for my own next step, I really want to know what other creators are doing. Their basic life as an artist, sometimes I use a form, it's like an artist's life. Their life is brought in, or where they go to get the money. What is their creative life like? I am very interested in understanding how other creators are doing their work in a difficult environment. That's why I started shooting another documentary. So Director Chen was explaining how her first work was not a documentary, it was the feature film Bundled, which she shot in 1999. But at that time, the market for Taiwanese films in Taiwan was kind of rock bottom. So in one year, there could be less than 10 films that would be released, just because there wasn't the market for people didn't, Taiwanese didn't want to watch Taiwanese films. So despite the fact that actually Director Chen was nominated for and won quite a lot of awards internationally for that film Bundled, critical acclaim was very positive. But in terms of box office, commercial success, that was something which Director Chen really struggled with. And she said, she felt like, well, if Taiwanese aren't going to watch Taiwanese films, what's the point in being a director? What's the point in carrying on making movies? And that was something which for her caused a real challenge to think about her future. And she said at that time, and she actually felt quite lost. And something that came out of that was that throughout that period, she had carried on observing other artists, other creators in Taiwan and other teams, other events as well, even artistic events. And that led her to think about the questions of, well, where do these other artists get their inspiration? And where does their creativity come from? And that led her down the road of documentary making to actually try to enter into the life of other creators, other artists, to discover what their life is like and how their creativity is birthed, how their work actually comes about. So that was where her first documentary work came, which was documenting Lin Li-Chen and also she was mentioning another artist from Japan. Yeah, I just forgot to turn on the microphone. Yeah, these two lines are almost the same. Yeah, so that's where these two social conscience and performing arts, those kind of two streams really came from in the beginning. And I think no matter, the teacher just asked about the topic of attention, I think no matter if it's about the attention of the artist or the state of my own script, I think it's more about looking for a person who lives in a society like this, whether it's about how people live or how people live, or for example, when I was filming an artist, why I was filming for so many years was because I wanted to find what their basic work is. Because art works can't be changed. Every time their style or style changes, their works may be good, bad, or different. But I always think there should be a core thing, that thing won't change. I wanted to find the core part of the artist and find out what that thing won't change. So in terms of particularly looking at whether it's documenting artists or whether it's writing a script, what Director Chen says her aim or her goal is to find out how do these people survive in today's society and what is it? What is that core, that central core that is unchangeable for them? Because if you take the example of an artist, their work will change over time, which is another reason why Director Chen says that she wanted to make such long-term documentaries, was to actually see over many years then, as the art changes, sometimes it might be good, might be bad, it might be coming from different perspectives, it might be well received, might be badly received. But actually what is it actually at the core of the artists themselves that doesn't change, that keeps them going, that keeps them motivated and keeps them alive? And so that's what she's searching for, is to see what's at the core, what's the central thing that doesn't change while all the creation itself is expressed in a different way. So I think my, there are so many steps, but it should be that between film and film, for me, it's all a process of creation, that is, film and film are both influencing each other and moving forward, it's not a single individual. So despite each documentary or each film being an individual entity in itself, it's an independent work, actually what Director Chen is saying is that there's a theme there, that each work will influence the other one, and actually you can almost link them all together in a stream as it were, because there's that central idea of searching for the core in people, what is it that's unchangeable there? Okay, I'm done. Thank you. Okay, it's very clear, thank you very much. So maybe I can ask the second question. So the other question. Director Chen, I also know that this time we're actually under a big framework, that is, in the Taiwan New Chao film series, we're considering the development of this generation of Taiwanese films. Of course, you're the most special, because we find that most of them are male. So as a female director, when you think about the so-called New Chao film era, there aren't too many female directors who can take part in the film. So do you think, have you been influenced by the New Chao film? Do you think that the film is more male-oriented? How do you think you are going to take your own path? Let me ask you in English, it's very simple. Sorry. As the title of the series suggests, we are trying, in the last two years, we tried to trace the cinematic trajectory of the post-New Wave cinema. So in Taiwan, among the post-New Wave generation director, I think you are quite unique, because for one, you are a female director. And do you feel that you are detached from that tradition, or have you been influenced by them? There's no such thing as a role model for you. So how did you manage to develop your own style? Thank you. Thank you. Let me go back and talk about the era of technology in film. It was the 90s. In Taiwan, there were very few female film directors. Almost very few. Most of them were still in the middle of the film, or they were filming in a larger film company. So if I didn't go to the director's office, I wouldn't have been able to form a team and shoot this film in a unique way, using 16mm film. It was almost impossible at the time. I don't know if you know how Taiwan was at the time. For example, I'm filming now. For example, the director, the film director, the lighting director, and the film director were working together for this film. This is the traditional way of making films. But director Huang Mingchuan was not there. He trained people. So the film director, the lighting director, all the departments, the editing, the lighting director, all of them were his students. So I was working in director Huang Mingchuan's office. I was working from the film, from the art, the photography, the lighting, the editing. I had to learn all the departments' work. I had to be able to make the right place. So at that time, I had to be able to get into a very solid technical training. This training was very important to me. Because at that time, there were very few female directors in Taiwan. I had to form a team. They were all very young people. This team started from the beginning to the end. It was a team. OK, so director Chen was explaining that in the 1990s in Taiwan, there were pretty much no women in film at all, in terms of filmmaking. And the way she was explaining, actually, the way that films were produced was that, generally, it was always the big companies that were making films. And the camera team, the lighting team, the audio team would all be brought in to make that particular project. But in her case, working with the director Huang Mingchuan at his studio, he did things slightly differently in that he brought his own people in. He had in-house teams for audio, for visual, for camera, for set, for basically the whole lot. And being involved then in that studio, that meant that director Chen had to learn every part of filmmaking. She was involved in every single department and actually got to see how each one worked. And what that meant for her was that it was an opportunity to kind of, from the top right down to the bottom, to learn about how films are made and have the experience then that when she came to make the movie Bundled, she was able to bring her own team together of young people. And she knew exactly how to organize the team and what needed to be done in each different area because she had already had that experience in the Huang Mingchuan studio. So for her, that was a real opportunity, a real boost because otherwise to be a female director in that era was next to impossible. So just now, the teacher just talked about a single star. I'm a female single star. I feel like I have a double male single star. One is a female. I'm a female. And another single star, I think, is the independent film, and the cross-recorded film. Or like I'm learning to do VR now or do some other parts of the show, the theater part. For example, I participated in Moving Tend, the theater work of the general director. This makes me feel like I'm not in the core of the film. This may sound weird, but I still feel like I'm in the film circle of Taiwan. This film circle is the film circle. Since the development of culture to a degree, it's becoming more and more obvious. This is the film circle. This is the theater circle. This is the artistic circle. This is the film circle. Each circle seems to be more obvious. I feel like I'm not necessarily in a certain circle. I'm not in the core of the film circle. I'm walking around in this circle. This circle makes me feel that I might be in my film or in the cross-recorded film or the theater film. This circle has always existed. So in terms of something which makes director Chen unique, she was saying actually, she feels there's two particular areas. So of course, being a female director, especially starting back when she did, was something that was pioneering in Taiwan. But also, being an independent director was and is something which marks out director Chen. And she was saying the fact that she exists almost on the fringe of the film circle, as it were, because she will cross over, whether it's between film and documentary or VR or with live theater effects and things like that. It's something which she finds, she's able to cross over boundaries quite easily. Whereas she was saying that as culture and as cultural industries develop to a certain level, then each area starts to separate and have more borders between them. So this is film and this is documentary, this is theater and this is performance art, this is music. And actually she doesn't fall into a specific category and fit in it. She's kind of on the fringe of all of those. And actually for her, that's a real advantage, a really unique spot. So for me, the influence I have on my life, of course, the directors of Taiwanese new films will definitely affect me a lot, like director Hou Xiaoxian, director Yang Dechang, director Tsai Mingyang, which is when I was a student or earlier, when I just came out to film, it was as if I would have a lot of contact with their films. This definitely has an impact. But rather than saying this is a absolute impact, I think it's not as if the whole Taiwanese culture was exploded at that time. The whole impact that exploded on me includes, for example, director Hou Xiaoxian, there are also, or in the early new films, many of them have, for example, the novel of Huang Chunming's writer, or something like that. These, for example, Huang Chunming's novel, or Chen Yingzheng's novel, these belong to a relatively civilized novel, will also greatly affect me. It means that at that time, the influence on me is not only on the part of Taiwanese new films, because Taiwanese new films are also related to Taiwanese novels or Taiwanese cultural circles. But these are the overall impacts on how I film all of my films. So in terms of being influenced by Taiwanese new wave cinema, director Chen says, yes, of course, that is something which has influenced her deeply, whether it's films from Hou Xiaoxian and Tsai Mingyang and directors from that generation. But even more than that, going further than that, is the actual cultural explosion, as director Chen described it, of the 1990s, of the post-Marshall law era. And actually, it's that kind of eruption of this cultural development and this newfound freedom of expression in art and in culture. That was like an all-around influence on her as a person, and then of course as a director. So for her, new wave cinema was actually part of this, and it was just one part of this, but also there was new literature and new books and new performing arts, and actually it was the whole spectrum of that, that influenced her on a deeper and a broader level than just the new wave cinema. So for example, just mentioned, for example, director Yang Dechang or director Hou Xiaoxian, they all changed, these two novelists also influenced me deeply, Huang Chunming's novelist and Chen Yingzhen's novelist. They are all more about the perspective of the people or the perspective of the characters and the perspective of the society. And so coming back to literature in particular, there were two authors, Chen Yijun and Huang Chunming, thanks, thanks, Huang Chunming, whose work, their novels, their books, often were focused on perhaps some of the down-announced in society or some of the people forgotten by society of the working class and looking at those issues of social conscience. And so as when some of these books were then made into new wave films, of course, both you have the books and you have the film influence, but also it's those themes of looking at those stories of the down-announced or looking at the stories of the forgotten people who have been left behind by society. From that, yes, that's had a big impact on director Chen, on her work and on the stories that she wants to tell. And then I think that age, actually, there's another influence, which is what I just said, the borderline of what I said. That age is also very common. For example, everyone may not know, for example, like the one I shot, Mr. Lin Yi-zhen, he used to help director Ke Yi-zhen or director Yu Kuan-min, he used to work in the film. For example, there was help in the car repair shop. So that's why all the cultural circles of that age are more lively, more mutual support or mutual, for example, mutual tolerance. Of course, but for me, it's still the same. So back in the 1990s, at that time, some of this crossover, cultural crossover, art crossover that director Chen has been talking about, that is something that she possesses as almost a unique point, actually back then, was much more common. And so she gives the example of artists from different spheres working together in particular. That was Yu Kuan-min's film. Yu Kuan-min and Ke Yi-zhen's director. Yu Kuan-min who choreographed some dance for Ke Yi-zhen's film for the movie Dance Watcher. Is that right? Lin Yi-zhen choreographed for Yu Kuan-min's Yu Kuan-ping's film. It's called Da Tuo Chao. English is Papa, can you hear me sing? OK. Right. OK, so that's an example of a particular crossover between the different spheres of art. And that's something which director Chen said was quite common at the time and something actually which she liked and has continued to try to do in her own work. So for her it's something of that merging of different spheres, that cooperation between different areas of different fields of art which she sees as something which influenced her back in that generation, but she's continued to this day to continue. Right. So what we just talked about is some impact. For women, of course, at that time, there were very few female choreographers or models. Of course, later on, I found a bit of creative energy in Mr. Lin Yi-zhen's body. Although he wasn't a choreographer, but because the foundation of the creation was very similar. So it's like I found a bit from Mr. Lin Yi-zhen in the form of creative energy so that I could continue to continue to work on the film. So in terms of role models, Director Chen was saying yes, despite the fact that there weren't other female directors at the time. She didn't have, you know, exact role models to look to in the area of filmmaking. But actually, she took a lot of inspiration from Lin Yi-zhen and her creativity. And while it might be a different field from directing, actually just that ability to keep going to be creative and to pioneer in our field of art is something which has encouraged and inspired Director Chen to keep going as a director herself. And then, actually, when I was in university, when I was in the 90s, that was when the gender movement was just started. So actually, at that time, when I was in university, I was influenced by a very positive, very positive thought. Because at that time, it was like, each community was moving in a relaxed way. And then, maybe, of course, Taiwan had something that was very important. And then there were relationships, there were political things, a lot of things were moving in a relaxed way. At that time, I felt like I had to solve the problems of relationships so that I could pay attention to gender. For example, at that time, although the topic of gender was what I paid attention to, but in a positive state, it seemed like there was a kind of feeling that you have to revolution in order to talk about gender because gender would be placed behind it. Later on, of course, I wasn't very positive. At that time, I felt that I wrote some more positive, more dynamic scripts. For example, a woman who put any drama into a song, which is a very experimental dynamic script. At that time, I wrote some about this, but later on, it was still from a person's foundation to look at this thing. So in my film, there may be not many, for example, very obvious, this is talking about a female protagonist, or something, but in the movie, it is said that a character usually is a woman. So then Director Chen has gone on to develop their answers to say how when she was at university in the 1990s, because the whole society was in flux, whether it was in politics, culture, arts, class, gender. So many of these issues were all kind of colliding together and there was lots of new thought coming out. What Director Chen was was saying was that actually to talk about gender, I think she was saying actually what almost was needed was to have a revolution first, to then be able to really focus on the issue of gender. So in her movies, then it's not very direct or very obvious the topic of gender in the way it's discussed. It's not something that she's really approached in a very obvious way. She did say on the side that previously she had written kind of script for like an animation which was very direct about a female who cut off female body parts and kind of exploring what is female in that area. But actually in her movies what she's chosen to do is to take the much less direct root and doesn't approach the topic of gender in such an obvious way but in her movies when if there is a strong character with a really quite a forceful role actually often that character will be a woman, will be female. So she does challenge gender stereotypes in that way but it's just it's not always direct and obvious. Thank you. Maybe you can come in. Thank you. Thank you. I think the first question from Andy so if you would like to first question that would be great. Thank you. So director Chen's already talked about working across fiction, film and documentary filmmaking and scholars and critics often draw a very sharp distinction between these two forms of filmmaking. But because Doctor Chen works across both, I wonder how she thought about the relationship between documentary and fiction. Whether she saw them as distinct or whether she saw them as a kind of points on a continuum. If she could just say a bit more about that please. Thank you. Xiao Yi or or Josh. Sure. Okay. Yes, please. So just Andy was asking about documentary and film and film stories. Often there is a very clear distinction between different fields. And then many maybe the audience would say these two things are completely different. But because both of you would do whether it's a film or a documentary you would take. So what do you think these two relationships are? How would you see the difference between a documentary and a film? I think for example when I was taking this I taught Amina this film. I did about a year of field research with some friends from Taipei who would teach them how to live their lives or do field research for more than a year. This is a continuation of this. I went from field research to this film he wanted to talk about. So when I wrote the first script it was very realistic. Because in the end there are some magic parts that are not all realistic. But when I started the first script it was very realistic. My team asked me since it was realistic why don't you take a documentary? Why do you have to make a film without a documentary? Why do you have to make a documentary without a documentary? I thought what I wanted to say was their living state. Their living state will affect their quality. If you use a documentary to film how you can't shoot the body or what is the problem. So I decided to use the documentary to use magic parts to show what they are facing and where the body is. So using the connection between fiction and documentary was before she started to shoot the movie bundled she spent an entire year researching homeless people in Taiwan and getting to know some of them trying to learn about their life and the issues they faced in life to actually get a proper idea and background for what she wanted to say through the film. And the first script the first draft script that she had and as they started to shoot was so realistic that actually members of her team then asked what's the point in making a movie out of this it may as well be a documentary because it's so real to true to life and that's something which director said she thought about for at least six months a documentary but actually what it was that persuaded her to to carry on making it as fiction was in order to be able to actually portray some of the some of the challenges some of the problems some of the the things that homeless people come up against in the clearest way that she could because as a documentary she would still only be able to the closest she could get essentially is as a fly on the wall to show what's happening day by day whereas telling the story she's able to actually represent even if it's real life events to represent them in a clearer way that brings the audience almost closer in a more emotional way into this whole topic this whole subject so in that sense as an example then that's what she's saying it's a good example of how documentary fiction have merged in her work so I think I am using documentary film using documentary film so what what Director Chen wants to do is to use the the method for making a documentary to make a movie and use the methods for making a movie to make a documentary and mix them together that's what she does and likes to do I know when she will do something and she will write a new script when she will go to her place and she will have some reaction under the observation for many years this character has already been in my mind I know what she will do every day I know when she will create what she may do what she may have some reaction so at this time I can make this using my camera to wait for the camera so all the camera is not any we know how to make a documentary there are many ways some are shot the camera is here you call this person to take a photo but in the film or all the film she doesn't have this kind of camera it's good to eat well eat well go go go and I can use the way to take this person maybe we will write a script for example what is this person going to do what will have some script first scene second scene third scene then of course the need is because it is enough I can write what he wants to do but he is a true person he is a true person but if you understand this person actually you So to give an example and go in the other way using using movie methods to make a documentary director Chen was was talking about filming Ling Lijian and the way that she has followed the the real person for so many years that in director Chen's mind now this person has almost become a fictional character, you know, he knows what kind of response he's going through. She will have what kind of reaction to how how she creates and she can almost direct the change and can anticipate, you know, what what the real person will do and therefore she can she can write a documentary script, which is almost like a movie script because she already knows this character. And she gave the example of real meal. For example, the shot where the old man is carrying a big bag of rice. It wasn't that she just happened to get that particular shot it was that she already knew this particular character knew what his daily habits were knew what he was going to do, and therefore was able to kind of script his story. Into the story that she wanted because she already knew how the real how the real character lived their life and therefore she could kind of anticipate in her mind what the documented character is going to do and capture that in a in a in the story that she wanted. So, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so 等於說我也是用一個比較是長期觀察的方式 是把它寫進去 等於說在劇情片的時候 我是用一個 等於說 就是剛剛類似長期的填調 你會知道有些moment 是你必須要呈現的 然後用寫的把它寫進去 但是它是立即於真實的 所以兩個東西都在尋找一個 我覺得都是一個 比較是 所謂的真實 到底是什麼這件事情 In terms of documentary then the way that director Chen captures the particular scenes that she wants is by waiting and so by getting to know this character knowing what they're going to do then instead of telling them to okay do this or do that or do that again she'll simply just wait for them to do whatever it is that she knows they will do at some point and so without interfering in them making it as natural as possible but having already you know researched this person's life then she's able to wait in the right place to capture the right shot at the right time to fit the story and then in terms of making fictional film, fictional works again it's through her research and through that kind of getting to know what reality is that she's able to put some of those real events into the script and make sure that the reality of what she's talking about gets portrayed through the fictional film so very much so using these methods to merge film and fictional film and documentary therefore to kind of ask the question of actually what is reality you know how are we portraying reality and what is reality almost finished that's it thank you next question is my own question before I ask you actually just said some of them have already answered a little bit so I will ask first and then I will talk about the English part actually because you have some films that you spent maybe ten years to film just like you just mentioned earlier actually you created one of the actions you want to look for other artists who are not comfortable with the film or are not comfortable with the film to find their own core and when you are filming a documentary you will also film your own theme then I will speak in English some of the documentaries took ten years to complete filming so as you suggested an important motivation behind your works is to unveil the core of something that stays and changed your life have you discovered your own who are during the process of filming and do you see your own subjectivity captured in your work thank you I kind of forgot your question your question is sorry you will in the process of filming find your own core and will you put your subjectivity in the documentary thank you if I talk about the documentary I can explain how I find the core of these artists for example the core may have just mentioned that I am looking for a reality or a core what is the core for example when I was filming a documentary I wanted to understand where the core of the creator is the core of the creator the core of the creator is when we do creative work I wanted to film what is the core of the creator the core of the creator seems to be a new word but it may be captured or the film is captured this is what I thought for example, I think there are two key points because I often get asked when will you stop because ten years is not because I set myself ten years or I set myself a few years but in the process of filming you still feel that you have not found then you will continue to film and then when you find you feel that you have to stop you make me feel that I have taken one day, I was on the mountain I went to pick up the mango flowers when I was picking up the mango flowers he suddenly saw the whole scene but the mountain path is actually a little dangerous he immediately turned his notebook and painted there if you have seen the person who had the camera then when he went back he began to paint to create the harmony in the work. For me, that moment is the moment when the light is on. This is the first point. The second point is how do I feel about the theater and how to convey the energy and image of the theater? Because we usually see the filming of the theater performance as a record. The record and the energy and spirit are different. The theater is like a concert. You must be at the scene. The actor or the dancer will give you a lot of energy. How does that energy bring the image of the theater? Later on, we used the dance film method to shoot some works of Lin Lijun. We used his dance as a script or script and used the film method to re-enact his dance. We used that method to make him feel that he can convey the energy of the theater. When these two works are shot, I feel like I have found the artist's fans. I can start editing or editing. So first of all, in terms of what Director Chen has talked about, finding that unchanging core or searching for reality, finding that that doesn't change in particular artists. What is it that inspires them to create? How do they create these questions? What Director Chen said she was searching for in doing such long-term documentaries was actually looking to be able to capture on film, on camera. Those moments in English would say a flash of inspiration or kind of an aha moment, I guess. A lightning bolt. Actually capture those moments where inspiration comes or inspiration hits. And that's because for an artist, those are kind of the sacred moments. And one example that Director Chen gives was when she was filming Ling Lijian and took her to a mountain top to an area where lots of particular flowers were blooming at the time. I'm not sure what flowers those were. What did you just say? Mango grass. Mango flowers, mango trees. Mango flowers, mango flowers. Mango flowers, OK. Mango flowers, I'm just kidding. I'm not sure of the English of mango, I'm afraid. That's a native Taiwanese flower, I presume, is it? I think it says it's a Chinese silver grass. A Chinese silver grass, OK. And the event or the moment, as it were, was going up to this mountain top and when then Ling Lijian saw this view, this view of the Chinese silver grass and obviously from the mountain top he got quite a vast view, just immediately kind of blocking out the environment and not even necessarily taking care of all the cars that were on the road, just running over to a vantage point, opening the notebook and just starting to draw and actually that became the starting point then for a painting. And then back at the art studio became a painting. And so I think Director Chen was saying that was a moment that she captured that you can see in her documentary of this kind of flash of inspiration and that's where it's come from and that was one part. The second thing that she's been looking to capture and to convey through her work was thinking of theater, actually how to portray the kind of the energy and the power of theater through film because up to generally when the theater productions are filmed it's more of a just documenting the night kind of thing, just recording it. And actually then you lose that energy. Director Chen was saying it's a bit like a concert whether it's theater or if it's live music. If you're there in the audience, there's an energy and there's a power that you have to be there to experience. And what she wanted to do was to be able to actually find a way through film of capturing that same energy and power, which is something which she tried to explore again with Ligni Jernem with the dance in particular, I think using dance film and using lots of new techniques at least to try to capture that energy and power and convey that in a new way through film. So those were two of the two examples of why she spent so long trying to capture these things in her work. So my way of filming a documentary can be said to be more like a documentary. Of course, it's not like a documentary. But my way of doing it is more like a documentary. It's like you have to respect this field. You won't do anything. And then you're an observer. And then what do you observe? Of course, for me, I'm looking for the essence. So I don't think so. If it's from this point of view, it's actually more of a so-called shooting theory. Where is the limit of the shooting theory? So I won't cross the shooting theory. I won't become a director. I won't use my own way of recording or my life in a documentary. Or I won't use any way to enter a documentary. I won't take such a way to make a film. So this method of making a documentary is very much trying to capture the absolute reality. So Director Chen was saying, in trying to find that core, that unchangeable core of an artist, it means that she can't force anything and she can't kind of arrange things too much. She really does need to actually almost be observing from the edge. So you're saying it's almost a bit like... Anthropological observation. Oh, thank you, Biu. Anthropological observation. In the sense of not putting herself into the documentary, not putting herself into the story, not letting the footage, the shots being too influenced by her own idea of what she wants to capture and actually being able to wait and to observe and to wait and observe and not interfere. And therefore, through that, inevitably, that takes a very long time. But through that, then analyzing, okay, what have I captured here and what is it actually almost through all this material that I'm searching for that unchangeable core? It's the part that belongs to the ritual. They're all using their works to create a ritual space. Maybe it's using dance or Mountain Spirit, it's using the way of the bamboo to create the real ritual space or dance is also a ritual space. And the sound of these people, they're also creating a ritual space that belongs to the sound of the ritual. And the elephant is actually like this. I think, although it looks very different, but it has a common sense. Of course, ritual space is actually all the art that human beings are looking for. It all has something to do with this. Okay, I'm sorry, I'm checking the ritual space. No, rituals. Ritual. Ritual. Thanks. So in this case, then director Chen was saying that through her work, whether you're looking at, so for example, Lin Nijian is a documentary about the theme is on dance. And then Moving Tent is about theatre. And then Mountain Spirit is more about sculpture and kind of the installation art, physical art. And Earswitched on and Off is about sound. It's kind of audiovisual, or mostly audio art, sonic art. And while they're all quite different, they're different spheres, different fields of art. Actually, they've all got their own, they all kind of have these rituals as part of what they're doing. And that actually is a theme which runs through all these different areas of art. So throughout these different documentaries, lots of them which are long-term, that's kind of a common thread which director Chen has discovered that they all are creating this kind of ritual space through the work that they're doing. And that's what they invite people into when they present their work. So actually, just later on, and then in terms of movies, and then in terms of movies, so from the bundled and good man dog as well, the themes that come through, whether it's themes of religion and lifestyle and belief and values and these are themes which keep coming back round again and again. So in terms of looking at director Chen was saying her own unchangeable core as it were, then in some ways through documentary and through film actually, it's coming back to these same issues. So some of the answers to these questions or some of the themes that director Chen discovers or uncovers through her documentaries, then inevitably these influence her movies and the stories that she tells through movies. And in some ways, I guess, both the movies and the documentaries will influence each other is what she's saying. So there's a flow between both of them. That's about it. Thank you. Next question is from Ting Ying. Ting Ying, do you want to ask yourself? Okay, okay. Director, hello. Director, you just mentioned that in the past, actually in the past few years of VR shooting experience, I also went to the Taipei Film Festival and watched this film for the future production. So I'd like to ask the director to share with us the experience of the VR short film. And the other thing is that during the production process, the director would think of VR as a new medium and the differences in the traditional way of shooting. So when you're shooting, do you make any changes in the creative process or changes in the mentality? Thank you. Do you need to translate the question first or do I answer it directly? Okay. Sorry, yeah. Ting Ying, do you want to read it? Okay, thanks for sharing, Director Chen. And you just mentioned your experience in making VR film after an image for tomorrow. And could you please talk a bit more about that? And is there any difference in your creative process when you use this new medium of VR? Thank you. I think VR, I started to study VR after I started to study VR. I started to study VR in order to shoot VR. And my own feeling is VR is not a movie. It can't be watched in a movie way. Because we see a lot in the international or Taiwan a lot of VR films. A lot of VR films use the concept of a movie to shoot VR. For example, it will cut or have a shot. For me, I don't see VR as such. I think VR is a new medium. It's like a new subject. So the language in the movie can't be directly covered in VR. Now we see VR as a category. I think it's a bit of a pity. It's like a documentary film, a short film, a experiment film or a film. And VR, VR is the same. But it shouldn't be divided like this. It should be VR. VR can be divided into VR, a documentary film, a film, a experiment film, a film. VR is a new media, not a new category. Director Chen was saying that in her experience, it was only when she came to making After Image Fall tomorrow, this VR project. In order to make this project, she started to research VR. And through that process, her perspective on VR is that it's a whole new media. And what she found was a bit of a shame in some ways is that a lot of people at the moment still treat VR just as a kind of an extra gadget and use the idea of making a movie and just kind of add VR into that. And so, you know, you make a movie with different shots and different cuts. It's just that it's in VR. Whereas what Director Chen was suggesting was that actually treat VR as an entire new media, an entire new thing in itself that within VR, you know, you could have documentary and you can have all of these different kinds of film within VR and don't just use kind of the past movie making ideas and language and try to cram that into VR. Actually, you have to broaden your headspace and treat VR as a whole new medium in itself in which you can still fit all the other kind of, you know, visual elements into it, documentary and film and other things. So, for example, when I was just talking about myself, I would also talk about other areas, like some of the theater's filming experience or the theater's participation experience. And I personally think VR is more... It's more about time. Because we would say that movies are more about time. I think VR is more about space. You can use space to look at it. It's a bit like a theater. It might be closer to the theater or, of course, it's an image but it might be closer to the theater or to its space. When you bring VR, you have a complete space. This space won't change. It's like a theater. The theater, whether it's lighting or scenery or any changes, it changes its time. Then it changes time with space. VR is a concept like this. You see the whole space in VR. You don't have a frame, you don't have a lens. So you're the whole space. So later, for example, I would use theater thinking in VR. How to change the space and change the performance. And then change the VR instead of using a direct cut. Because some VRs will cut directly. For example, you can change the cut or use the cut to integrate it. But I would use the space and the theater concept to make this VR. In Director Chen's project, then, in After Image for Tomorrow in this project, what she wanted to do was use her experience and almost use a perspective of making theater and translating that into VR as opposed to making a perspective of making a film. And actually, the really interesting thought that she shared on that, the idea is that in film, film is kind of using time to tell a story, to represent something. You know, it's fairly linear and as time goes on through the film, then things change and you watch them changing. Whereas theater is more about space. You're in this space and things in the space change and tell the story through the space. And VR, in that sense, then, is closer in Director Chen's opinion to theater than to film. So what she wanted to make was something where when you put the VR on, you're in that particular space. And so she would use things in the space to change and transform, to tell the story that she wanted, to represent what she wanted as opposed to what some other people do, which is having more of a movie style, where despite being in the VR, this particular frame will then cut to the next part, which cuts to the next part. So in that sense, Director Chen saying that VR can be almost closer to theater. At least that was what she wanted to do with her after image for tomorrow. Was that sense of using space and not just linear time? Another interesting observation is that when we're watching movies, when we're watching frame-to-frame movies, what we focus on is our thoughts, the story in the frame of our mind, and the story in our spirit, and what we gain from it. But in VR, there's something interesting because it's a space-based thing. When you're wearing VR, your physical feeling becomes very important. Your body is a very real thing. For example, when we're watching scenes in movies, for example, when we're watching scenes, we might have some kind of movie language or you're following someone, you're following someone all the time. We're very easily separated now because the image has been developing for so many years. We're very easily separated. We're following this person now. We won't ask why the camera is following this person. Maybe it's a person's perspective. Maybe it's a very objective person. We won't ask who is following this person. But in VR, because this is too new, we're not used to it. So it becomes that our physical feeling is very strong. Today, when the camera in my VR is at the top, I immediately feel like I'm a ghost or I'm on the ground. Why am I looking down here? The physical feeling is very strong. Or in VR, if you're shooting a person following him all the time, the audience will immediately feel who I am and why I'm following this person. So the audience's body, the body and everything related to this are all very fresh in this VR. I think this freshness is the period of time. If we develop for 10 or 20 years, we're used to VR, we won't have these freshness and these development. So I think we can use this freshness to develop a lot of the language of this media. What Director Chen is expanding on in terms of her observation of VR is that when compared to film, because film has been around for so long and we're also accustomed to it. Actually, the example she gives is in a film, if you have a shop that is following the protagonist of the film, following a character in the film, we put our mind, we put our self into the movie as it were and we just kind of observe it. We won't necessarily ask the question, why is this shop following this person? Who is following this person? What's going on in that sense? We're so used to movies now, the different angles and shots and things going on that we almost, we just observe and it's normal. Whereas with VR, it's not just you put your mind and your kind of your thoughts into the movie. Actually, your whole body becomes important and you're aware of yourself and your body when you're in the VR space. So if you're in VR and you find that you're up above, looking down from a really high place, then you suddenly think, who am I? And what am I doing up here? Am I a ghost? Am I a God or something? What's going on? Or similarly, if the VR angle is that you're following someone, then you immediately ask yourself, who am I and why am I following this person? What's going on? So director Chen was saying that this is partly due to the fact that VR is so new and we're not used to it. We're not so accustomed to it. And she thinks that will last for around about 10 or 20 years. So it's important right now to actually make use of this freshness of VR and kind of use it, experience it and play with it while it's still fresh for people before the audience get numb to some of the kind of the newness and the new areas of creativity that VR gives. Okay. Thank you. Thank you director. Let me ask the next question. The question is more theoretical. Let me try to translate it. You mentioned earlier that you would use a recording method to shoot a plot. So is there a way to use a Chinese name? Is there a way to use the concept of a lens or is it a bit like that of the so-called authenticity of the French War? That is, the movie must show the authenticity 而不是去控制真实的这种想法。 谢谢,不知道我翻译的,对不对? So does this play of documentary shooting for a feature film deal with the invisible camera idea or something closer to the genuineness reality which Andre Bazin was looking for in cinema? Thanks for applying. Thank you. If I'm talking about the theory of the 8th war I think I would rather use it in a documentary not to control the truth but rather to record this piece. As for the plot, I think the so-called truth because we can still have a lot of imagination about what is truth. We will always discuss what is truth or the fact that these years of documentary and other types of films are becoming more and more blurred. In fact, these blurings are discussing what kind of things are the truth. For me, a documentary or a plot is not two parts that are drawn out of a knife. Because this time I didn't put that the practice of the invisible camera or my own other short film. That short film for me is to blur these two lines. Of course, some of them are still very clear. For example, I teach him to play the old baby. He is really famous. We found a famous actor to play this character. In addition to the female reporter all the other actors are digital actors. Some of them are really famous and some of them are digital actors. In terms of documentary making Director Chen is very much observing and looking to make sure she doesn't control reality. I guess you could call it an invisible camera. It's not interfering with what's going on. But in terms of film what Director Chen was saying you do come back to the question of what is real and what is reality. There's a lot of discussion that does take place and can continue to take place about that question what actually is reality. Particularly as boundaries between film and documentary have become more and more blurred actually that's something which Director Chen has almost intentionally looked to do herself in her own work is blurring of those boundaries between documentary and between film. Of course there will be very obvious documentary and very obvious fiction film. But she gave two examples. One of the films being bundled the example that she gave of the film bundled war jiam is that the homeless protagonist was actually a homeless person in Taiwan and actually apart from the female journalist in the film everyone else was they were either real homeless or they were just everyday people they weren't professional actors and in that sense that was one way of actually blurring those boundaries between documentary and between film. And the second example that Director Chen mentioned Director Chen, you just mentioned another film that we didn't broadcast can you repeat that again? Travelling with the homeless in Trains We Gaze Okay one more time Travelling with the homeless Travelling with the homeless Travelling with the homeless Travelling with the homeless Travelling with the homeless Travelling with the homeless Travelling with the homeless Travelling with the homeless Travelling with the homeless Travelling with the homeless Travelling with the homeless Travelling with the homeless Travelling with the homeless Travelling with the homeless Travelling with the homeless Thank you, thank you. 并不一定是写实,他这两个是有一点点差别的,那比如说真实是包含我们看不到的空间的东西,比如说在流浪神果人里面有一段是神明起物吗,就是有三太子好像那个神,就是里面有很多的神像,那些东西是看不到的,然后有一幕是神明在一个废墟里面开始起物了,那那个看起来是很不真实的,很不写实。 应该说很不写实,但是其实对我来说那是真实。 我刚刚又突然想到,就是侯孝县导演,他其实讲过给年轻人,不知道在什么场合讲过,给年轻人说, 不是原文是这样讲,但是意思意思类似说,你不要看的地方,不完全是没有东西, 我刚刚又突然想到,就是侯孝县导演他其实讲过给年轻人,不知道在什么场合讲过,给年轻人的一句话是类似说, It's not the original language, but the meaning is that you don't want to watch the movie, you want to watch the life to create the movie. It's actually a suggestion for young people. The meaning of that is because I think there are a lot of images, a lot of movies, a lot of them are everywhere. In my college years, I couldn't watch so many movies, not so many, not so many internet, not so many images can be seen. In fact, my inspiration, a lot of ideas or inspiration came through books, novels or something. But now it may be through images. So I think this sentence, I have always put in my mind that you don't want to watch the movie to create the movie, you want to watch the life to create the movie. Don't try to get your inspiration from watching other films. Actually get your inspiration from life, from real life. And that's something which for Director Chen she was saying is she's kept that idea in mind. She tries to keep coming back to that advice, if you will. Because when she was young, when she was starting out, she didn't have that much opportunity to watch so many films as now. In fact, then there was no internet, whereas compared to nowadays, you can watch anything you like, anytime you like. And what she wants to do is to not get sucked into that actually, but to keep this advice in mind all the time actually. Take inspiration from life, not just from other people's work in that sense. So being able to make documentaries is something which Director Chen is grateful for. And feels privileged to be able to do because it's exactly that. It's being able to take inspiration from real life, from other people's real lives and document it. And actually that feeds into creative inspiration for her other work as well. Thank you Director Chen. I think we have Rossella here, so maybe perhaps if you would like to ask a question. We have a teacher who studies film and drama. Or please ask her a question. Rossella, if you don't have any questions, it's not compulsory. Great. Good to see you. Welcome Rossella. Don't forget to turn your mic on. Oh, yes, you're muted. Yeah, exactly. I was trying to figure that one out. Thank you for this event actually. The question actually is very simple. I watched the documentary about the moving tent. And as somebody who works on theater and I had read about Sakurai Taito and Taiwan, So I wanted to ask how did Director Chen get into contact with this group? And how did she get eventually to decide to make a film about them? Thank you. Okay, so I was just asking, he saw the moving tent, this documentary. And I was very interested in it. I also wanted to ask how did you get into contact with this group first? And then why did you decide to record them, to make a film? At first, I was just like Lin Lijun. Lin Lijun, I watched his dance for 2000 years and left a deep impression. And then Hai Bi-zhi, I saw him in the film, he had a band in Japan. A band from Yuzan. Yuzan also had a band from Yuzan. In the 1990s, I almost forgot to check the details of the 2000s. It was the first time that director Zhongqiao from Tsai's crew came to Taiwan to make a film. At that time, he was outside of Taipei. He was outside of Taipei. At that time, Taipei didn't have such a so-called park. Taipei is now almost nowhere to be found. Everywhere, for example, the outside of Taipei is a park. At that time, it was still a place with a wilderness. It was the first time that I watched Zhang Hongjun. After watching the film, I was very shocked. He used Japanese in the whole film. But in the script, he was talking about the nuclear waste. Nuclear waste is completely needed. Nuclear waste goes to a place, and what to do? How can a group of people face this matter? The name of the film is the first nuclear disaster. The first nuclear disaster. The first nuclear disaster is nuclear waste. It's a plot. After watching the film, Zhang Hongjun, who was in the film, would open the wood at the end. The stage was closed. We saw a stage, a scene, and so on. But the last scene would be on fire. When it was on fire, he would sing. After singing, he would open the wood at the end. When the wood was on fire, I was completely shocked. When the wood was on fire, it was a scene in the light of Taipei City. A city scene. You could see the city through the river. At that moment, it was like melting the plot and the script together. You weren't watching a film. You were watching something very real. Do you think what you see now is real? Or is the place where you live a real life? In fact, what we see in the film is real. The nuclear waste is not handled by these people. How do they live? This is real. When we opened this tent, what you see, what you think is real, is fake. It completely turned my view on the real, the real, the real structure. After watching it, I was totally shocked. Then, in 2004, he was also the director of the bridge. He continued to interact with Taiwan and Japan in detail. In 2004, he planned to establish a Taiwan seabed troupe. At that time, I joined the troupe as a participant. I joined the troupe as part of the filming. All the members of the troupe are very friendly. Everyone has other jobs. The troupe is more like this. Director Chen first came into contact with this team. It was when they came from Japan, when the director came from Japan to Taiwan in the year, around about the year 2000, she was saying, to do outdoor tent theatre. At that time, in Taipei City, there was still quite a lot of just open space that was left. Nowadays, she was saying there's a lot more parks around the empty space has generally been turned into parks. It's controlled, as it were. Whereas back then, the tent theatre was set up more in just an area of wasted space. She went to a watch and the theme of the story was about nuclear waste and how nuclear waste were impacted on the people that it got dumped on, essentially, and the kind of the fear and that problem, that issue. And what she said, that really opened up her mind, really was a big flash of inspiration moment for her, was at the end, throughout the whole story, you're watching things on a stage and it's contained in the stage. And the final part is where there's a fire and then the tent is opened up. And when it was opened out, the view, you can see the view of Taipei City behind there and suddenly it's like the whole story, which had been fantasy on a stage there being acted out, became a reality, because it was right there in the space that she existed in and actually therefore this issue actually was a real issue as well and it was reality for these people. And so that moment of the curtain opening up of suddenly placing this story in the reality of where Director Chen was, was it flipped up that whole idea of what is fiction and what is real. And that was a big moment, a big kind of mind opening for Director Chen right then and that led her to certainly to keep, to stay interested in this group and in this particular thing. And so in 2004, it was, again, it was a Taiwanese director which invited this Japanese director to come to Taiwan to start a theatre company in Taipei and that's something which Director Chen said she wanted to be involved in, partly involved in and partly to document the whole process and the people who were part of then that new theatre group mostly were not professional, they all had other jobs and they would come in and join this theatre group. Thank you. Can we start with that one? Thank you, Rosela, for asking this question. It's really fascinating. I want to follow up her question on the moving tent because I noticed in the film there's quite a big part was taking place and also involved in the social protest for Le Sheng... I don't know how to say Le Sheng Liao Yang Yuan. Le Sheng Liao Yang Yuan. Yeah. So there's a kind of social element in that particular film as well. So I was just wondering how did she get involved in that particular thing and how does she combine social issues into that particular work? Was it because Hai Bizi's theatre was socially very active or something else? OK. I'll use Chinese to ask. I just followed Rosela's question and she said that in the moving tent Le Sheng Liao Yang Yuan also performed in Le Sheng Liao Yang Yuan in the rescue zone and also some of the patients who were involved in it. Not only the actors, but also the audience. So in this film, although it's about the theater, there's actually a big relationship with the social issues and the activities. So I wanted to ask you why would you look at Hai Bizi at this point? Is it because you're personally interested in the issues they're involved in or is it just a very socially conscious group that's so attractive? Can you explain your thoughts on this group? Thank you. I think this part is this part is Hai Bizi. This group is a group that has a strong relationship with the social issues. When I was in Japan, because of the early British era, when I participated in the anti-sacrifice treaty, Japanese college students would participate in the anti-sacrifice activities. The theater was formed under such a state. They could go out and act and act. The director of the film usually cares a lot about the social issues, the international situation, the whole of Asia, and how to survive under such a state. So this is what the director of the film cares about. In answer to this question, the theater company Hai Bizi was originally connected to and interested in social issues. That was part of what the theater company was involved in and motivated by. So not just then in Taiwan, the original Japanese director in Japan was very much motivated by and interested in social issues, which was part of the reason director Chen said for the whole 10th theater idea of being able to go anywhere and take the message or the story out. And so that was something, again, which attracted her to the Hai Bizi theater company in Taiwan, was this very strong connection with the social issues, social movements, social conscience, I should say. How do people how do they survive, how do they cope in environments where they're oppressed or they come up against big problems, big trouble. So, in the 2000s to 2004, when Taiwan was back in Taiwan, we just talked about the situation. At that time, when we were fighting, many of the members of the crew also participated in the maintenance movement. It wasn't because of the crew that they participated in the maintenance movement, but the members of the crew participated in the maintenance movement. So, very soon the film crew will also follow the maintenance movement. So in terms of the year 2000 to the year 2004 when this Japanese director was regularly visiting Taiwan, actually, the issue of the Lersen that's the sanatorium from the sanatorium. Yes. Okay. The issue was of this place being closed and a campaign to keep it open. And what director Chen was saying was a lot of people who were involved in the campaign and protests were actually involved in that first and then involved with the High Beads Theatre Company because the High Beads Theatre Company was also involved in that project. The people being involved in the campaign and the protest first as opposed to being dragged in by the theatre company in that sense, which made it very real. And the other point that director Chen mentioned was even just the idea of having a tent theatre was actually because the director wanted to think about the whole idea of why are you in this place telling this story to this group of people what's the meaning behind the space that we're in right now in this location telling this particular story and the tent being a way of controlling and managing that in a way that you can write from the outset you think about that question and you can design in a way which has the maximum impact as opposed to just any old space. So his crew is still a so-called more advanced work he's not a director or a crew I hire these people or I pay money to the crew but if I'm a member and I'm an actor I have to pay to stand on that stage I have to do what I have to do but it's not the opposite I've written a script today I'll find some actors to play his relationship is not like that it's a more advanced work So in terms of the way that this Japanese director works is not to write a script and then to hire professional actors to come in and fit into the script and the story it's actually it's the members of the company they actually you have to actually sacrifice something you have to give something to be able to be involved in this you have to put yourself into into the story of the campaign you know what is it that you want to do what is it that you want to say and it's almost like the opposite way round from a traditional just simply write the script and hiring people to act it but it looks like his crew seems to be very sociable but I think he's very sensitive is that his script is not writing at all is that his script is not not real writing but he uses a lot of magic writing to make it clear what he wants to say so on the flip side despite being very based in real life reality and real social issues the scripts then that this particular the high beads of company the director will write are actually quite fantastical and he'll use fantasy to almost portray the message in an even clearer and harder hitting way so the issues the ideas are all very real but the way that it's portrayed through the script is almost quite fantastical okay fantastic thank you so much I have got I can I ask another question question thank you thank you very much let me use Chinese I'll ask a shorter question you just talked about the explosion many times the explosion of the 90s I recall the 90s Taiwan I also think Taiwan's culture is very wonderful and the impact is very interesting the movie is super so such a contrast you think such a wonderful culture such a low movie I'll ask a quick question you mentioned several times about the cultural explosion in the 1990s which when I look back it was really exciting period but why the contrast of really low and depressing film industry so in her view can she elaborate a little bit on this it's very outstanding I'm really very outstanding wait for the just mentioned the explosion I think this is more part of the creation it is the cultural or artistic stage after the explosion it is more it doesn't belong to the industry of course when the new movie director Yang they did it together or the whole culture for Taiwan the explosion or the production is such a situation of course the big environment in Taiwan I think it is more the problem of the industry of course she needs a lot of money she needs a lot of money to make a movie but this is more the industry but in the culture I think the movie in Taiwan was not low she didn't make a lot of money and she said it might not be good but she is talking about the movie or the movie or the movie or the new movie director I think they are still exploding she didn't have the influence of the industry of the industry I think so so in terms of a cultural explosion in the 1990s post martial law period in Taiwan what director Chen is suggesting is actually that was much more of a creative, a cultural, an artistic an explosion of expression and that didn't necessarily translate into the film industry as a kind of mature industry that they were established companies that made films in a particular way and required large budgets to do so and the kind of decline of the established film industry was another thing that actually was not that wasn't necessarily part of this explosion of creativity of culture, art and of expression and that actually while the industry, the film industry itself was in decline the kind of commercial part side of it was very much in decline then what director Chen suggests is that creatively it wasn't in decline creatively actually the film scene was also exploding it's just that the number of films being produced and released was much much lower but actually the directors of that time were very much part of this this new cultural creative explosion it's just that issues to do with the film industry itself meant that there were so few films that it wasn't a high point in Taiwan's film industry as it were okay I think we're just you know, running out of time so thank you so much director Chen this is amazing talk may I ask the audience to switch on your microphone and camera put your hands together maybe we should say a big thank you to director Chen thank you