 Oh, good morning to those who are still here, which is quite a few, but I hope you had a good evening yesterday in Paris that you were able to enjoy a good restaurant and after what was a very busy day. We certainly had a debrief here on our end and we were very happy with how the discussions went yesterday at the first day of the TCP Universal Meeting. I hope you feel the same way. It was a new unique gathering in many ways with both the TCP as well as the third committee here being present. For the second part of the TCP Universal Meeting it's now time to focus a bit more on some of the technical aspects if you want, which is the TCP Coordination Group and the request for extension process. This first session or session five in total will focus on the TCP Coordination Group functions. We will have a very strict schedule this morning because our executive director scheduled to join us at 11 o'clock for addressing the TCP Universal Meeting. So in the interest of time I'll hand over to Pair who will kick off the discussion on the renewed TCP Coordination Group and then we'll have a couple of colleagues intervening to present their initial proposals that they have come up with. Yeah, over to you. Thanks a lot Timor and good morning to everyone and thanks everyone for yesterday. And maybe also as an additional point before I start the presentation on this item to pick up one of the comments received yesterday in one of the coffee breaks from a colleague of the importance moving forward with implementation of the review and separating the administrative processes from the substantive processes. So when we're looking at the reorganization of these things we have one part of the organization which of course are there for making sure that we the request for extensions coming back to later this afternoon but also to ensuring that in this process to review but also come up with the proposals and mechanisms that can help cross TCP collaboration and also solve some of the challenges we had heard about yesterday about communication. As David said yesterday it's important to continue looking at these mechanics but with the TCP coordination groups or the renewed TCP coordination groups is the first steps trying to look at how these collaborations across the TCP and with ISEC could be working in practice. Okay, the slides please. So the purpose of this first session is both our TCP colleagues but of course also other colleagues around the table including IA desk officers which are here today as well to discuss the new TCP coordination group mechanism but also in the first part now as Timor said we will hear a first list of proposals and then later this morning after the coffee break and the visits from the executive director we're gonna move downstairs to have a more interactive part where you have the chance to discuss the proposals but also coming up with new additional proposals but I'll get back to that in a moment. So just coming back to the CERC review again and just to recap the discussions and again we're building this on many, many, many interviews and discussions over the last months or beginning of this year. So of course the coordination groups as they've been working today under the end use working party has have a good function. I understand from speaking with some colleagues have been around for a while that the coordination groups were set up 10 years ago to try to solve some of the challenges the end use working party had back then with what we discussed yesterday too with the very broad mandate. So one way to solve that was to have a number of coordination groups around certain topics or buildings, industry, transport and electricity to find better easier ways for TCPs to talk to each other. This has been appreciated. We have seen a value from the secretary too. However, in the CERC review we did get some feedback that sometimes these are too static so there's a wish to move something to format that is a bit more dynamic and could help actually to be beyond just exchanging information to also help facilitate joint projects between TCPs, between the TCPs and the IA but also to solve this issue of how to communicate the work of the TCPs to CERC and working parties. Furthermore, in the new mechanics and the discussion, the idea here to let my last point so it will be up to CERC to approve the coordination groups but it could be either CERC but it can also be then of course a working party or a minimum of three TCPs or the IA secretary to initiate a coordination group. So in the case of CERC doing it that would be as I gave you an example a CERC delegate can raise say we would like to know a bit more what's happening on let's say critical minerals across the TCPs. Then we at the secretary in this case if we have the resources as we did last year to start looking at what different TCPs are doing on critical minerals and then feeding that information back to CERC just to give you an example and this could be in many other areas and this comes back to the question we'll quite often gets from CERC that I guess that I won't understand a bit better what happens not only in single individual TCPs but also across the TCPs on certain technologies or on different aspects. So not to create a new heavy process but rather have something but still we'll be very clear there's still an informal body that is not intended here to start developing separate processes but rather something that's a bit more output oriented just to use for TCPs who work with annex as those tasks similar to here it should be a timely limited you can call it a project but with a clear output which can then be approved by CERC but then also there is of course an expectation from CERC to also receive the final output presented to self at the later stage and I'll show you in a moment we have developed a template for this to make it a slight well something to start on but also of course make it uniform and something that will be easy for CERC to review and approve. So as I said we are following the discussions with the CERC task force the proposal is to have something which is time limited clearly tied to an output and preferably not longer than two years and this is of course to a certain extent sometimes a mismatch with how TCPs are organized with how long different annexes are going on but we see at some time what we can expect or what we here we expect from the CERC delegates that might be something that is more time limited and not go on for more than two years but again if there are a justification for some of these projects to go on for longer those should be of course be put forward but again I can say there are ways there can be different steps as well of course in a project where something is presented as first step and then there's a second part of the TCP coordination groups project. That's coming on the last point here. Okay, very important one as well. There are lots of ideas out there we know that and the important thing here and this has also been very clearly stated for the CERC review but any new initiatives or working parties but also TCP coordination groups moving forward it's important from the get code that is actually secured resources and this is something as well that will be of course in the proposal put forward to CERC clear as I will show you now in this next almost next slide. There's a few last points on the modalities of the TCP coordination groups in the name of course it's first and foremost a mechanism within the TCP network between the IAEA secretariat of course and the TCP's but it could also be an opportunity if appropriate of course to engage and work with other initiatives and platforms outside of the network such as initiatives under clean energy misterial or mission innovation and again just a single signal the importance of the TCP network also being driving force and improving overall coordination in the international landscape and then the last point also to be very clear and I get back to this as well on the next slide but this is just one example of how to collaborate between the TCP's that doesn't prevent the existing mechanisms we have in the structure from TCP's to meet each other and agree to have joint annexes or joint projects but it's a new mechanism to do what I said to facilitate cross-cutting collaboration but also linking up to CERC and then yes on the process side we will we have started as we you have seen a few weeks ago we sent out an early interest invitation to TCP's to come up with projects coordination groups today we have plenty of time to discuss those initial ideas but we also give you a chance as I'll explain in a moment to also provide other ideas to check with colleagues if there's any interest and then we will continue the process our intention is to finalize that on the 14th of December so still seven weeks or so and again saying this is the first round of TCP coordination groups that could then be put forward to cert at the beginning of next year for approval was very important to think about when you're putting these proposals together so besides ensuring that you have resources to actually deliver what you want to deliver is to have a clear output what do you want to achieve and also have clear timers in the proposal and this is on the right side here you see the templates have been put together and sent out and again we'll send it out after this meeting as well and yes want to be very clear as I said one thing of course this is not replacing other automated mechanisms for TCP's to collaborate with each other it's also very important to signal that this is not we don't want it to be perceived or I'm speaking on behalf of the cert task force too to be perceived that this is now forcing TCP's to find and join collaborative coordination groups because it's the only way to communicate what TCP's are doing this is a mechanism of course where there is many TCP's working in the same area that could be or the cross cutting topics where there's an interest to have these coordinated exercises but by no means this should also be seen as the only thing we do when it comes to communicating the efforts of TCP's so in linking back to the discussion we had yesterday on communication this is one pillar of many that we will consider to how we can improve our communication so also what we do as individual TCP's but also other joint projects etc so this should be just to make sure you understand this at level with those efforts so we're now coming to the point where we can see there are initial ideas put on the table and my impression is that in many of these at least when we have the discussions within the US Secretariat that they seem these topics themselves we see there is an interest from our side from our analytical side they seem often to be an interest from the political side from a policy side as we discussed yesterday but also in some of these areas we know there's also an interest from the TCP's so that's kind of golden triangle could be part of success when a TCP Coordination Group is set up and actually manage to deliver a clear output so yes two more slides oops sorry okay there you go just quickly I'll come back to this slide later but just to explain a little bit to you what will happen after the coffee break and the executive director presentation so I said we're going to go downstairs there will be a number of whiteboards we put up there around topics that have we see there are proposals on the table carbon management being one heat pumps but also thermal networks another one flexibility for the carbon as energy system we received a proposal from the energy storage but we also heard yesterday that there's an interest around digitalization resilience issues so we have one whiteboard around those topics on hydrogen critical minerals we have received one on sustainable fuels for combustion engines but I know also yesterday or today before yesterday there was a transport Coordination Group meeting here in Paris so also Luca to read out write out some of the discussions being had there and then also coming back to what we discussed yesterday and what we heard from colleagues about areas of interest we now framed it around people-centered but also social aspects or social economic aspects or gender or other aspects which is more linked to behaviors could be centered around a people-centered whiteboard and then also we're trying to find whiteboards here where you know each and every one of you will see it could be one or two that could be interesting but also of course allowing for other ideas so in room two there's one whiteboard on TCP Coordination Groups that's if you have other ideas but then also if you don't see any which could be the case you don't see there is any TCP Coordination Group that fits what we are doing we also allow you to write down any other ideas you have or feedback to the Secretary it could be about the TCP Universal Meeting yesterday and today but it could also be any other ideas that you want us to consider moving ahead so maybe then going through these presentations and I'll start to hand over to my colleague Casey Michaels of course who many of you know on the idea of TCP Coordination Group on critical minerals that really interesting or excellent introduction hopefully that gives a lot of food for thought for people so just a very quick report on the critical minerals Coordination Group so we did on the request of CERT an effort of mapping the critical minerals activities across TCP's in 2022 and following that the CERT asked us to put together a first Coordination Group on the topic which we did in December as an initial scoping meeting that took place last year so now in this context of this revised concept we're putting together kind of a first real active phase of this Coordination Group and we've identified two concrete outputs that would be of potential value for the secretariat and hopefully also for the TCP's and the first is on trying to validate some of our key demand and supply assumptions based on what and also expected development over the next 10-15 years for some of the important demands technologies like electric vehicles PVPS and buildings technologies so the idea will be we will gather some of the most important inputs to the to our larger models and then ask TCP's to help us develop and improve the basis we have for some of those assumptions. The second area is that we're exploring kind of a technology roadmap kind of approach where we would have a maybe a report that the IEA would coordinate that would have individual chapters led by TCP's on specific demand technologies this is something that we'd potentially explore later this year and would be great to hear anybody's ideas for that in the whiteboard session and final point just to note this is not directly related to the it's connected to the Coordination Group but not part of the Coordination Group we have discussions with across different cert delegates about the possibility of a new TCP focusing on supply side technologies because one of the outcomes is that while the demand side for minerals is quite well covered in the TCP network the supply side is not so the kind of mining technologies some of the secondary recycling technologies that might go a bit beyond what the TCP's currently cover so that's also something we're exploring. Thanks. Thank you very much Casey. The high end TCP will be Paul. Have some slack. Yes, thank you. So we propose Coordination Group on Hydrogen of course the main reason is because Hydrogen is a very transversal activities so we can find a lot of activities not only in the Hydrogen TCP but likely on maybe 10 TCP. I don't know exactly and the idea is also to map and to align the Hydrogen activity or at least to coordinate in order to promote some new collaboration. Of course we have some current collaboration we don't wait the Coordination Group to establish some connection with other TCP with my colleagues we have many many existing collaboration or at least discussion with other TCP but I think it will be very useful to have this Coordination Group and what we can achieve in the next two years I will say first is detail and update mapping on the current Hydrogen activities across all TCP's so I think it will be very useful to have a very global overview of what we are doing in the TCP network and maybe it could lead to a joint report on Hydrogen work in the TCP network I think it could be very useful at the end maybe some an annual report after this initial work of course this discussion will facilitate to propose joint activities more than existing collaboration of course and yes I said the same thing and probably also we can be able to publish some possible technology briefs and recommendations to IA first because you have a very big work on Hydrogen and to Government including the identification of knowledge and technology gaps I think it's very important because there is many questions about the technology readiness level about what are the technology mature not mature etc and what type of effort we need to accelerate R&D on innovation and my dream could be also to have I put the last line why not but it will be not now but at the end why not join exposition things about some big conference like COP or SMMI presenting all the hydrogen work achieved in the TCP network so just to give an example we for example the TRL assessment lead by IA Secretariat is a good example of what we started with the other TCP because there is many technologies to assess and a lot of them are not in our field of expertise so we have this exercise so we have many TCPs collaborating with this strategic activity and I think it will be a permanent effort from our side to coordinate and to make the interface with you to coordinate the TRL assessment like you publish every year and for example there is 30 TRL groups identified you can see some TCPs involved in this in this exercise I think it's a very good example of what we can achieve in the TCP network yes thank you I think for the breakout session we will discuss in detail and other ideas thank you thank you very much Paul and as you said as well we had discussions internally and Paul Paolo Frankl mentioned yesterday too that the support from the secretariat side here is even if the hydrogen TCP is under root there is still a support also from across the agency where also of course in energy technology policy division where we have much of the hydrogen analysis so we see from this in a very positive way as well to have an opportunity of mobilizing expertise on hiding across the TCP network so next I'll turn to my colleague Carl Greenfield who is the secretary for the working part of fossil energy but also the TCP desk officer for many of the TCPs under the working party Carl over to you thanks Pao as mentioned my name is Carl Greenfield and I am the desk officer for the four of the five TCPs that sit underneath that before jumping into the coordination group just a little bit of context maybe for the fossil energy working party so over the past few years there's been some engagement challenges from working party delegates and we've had a lack of leadership at the working party level for almost two years now and as CERT has been conducting its review and as we've been having discussions with the working party delegates as well as with the TCPs a core theme has emerged as an area to continue to focus on and that theme is carbon management and we heard from CERT earlier this week that CERT will discuss with the delegates and the TCPs over the coming months of the future of the fossil energy working party and what to do and so part of this effort with the carbon management coordination group will be to help inform CERT what exactly what theme should be covered moving forward and what exactly we should be working on with regards to carbon management carbon management can touch on a lot of different areas industrial decarbonization power transport to some extent not buildings necessarily but there's a lot of different areas where carbon management can touch and really we don't have a lot of visibility into this from the TCP network side as well as from the CERT interest side and so essentially what we want to do with this coordination group is find that sweet spot in the middle which maps the existing needs and areas of expertise from CERT and the TCPs and the IEA secretariat standpoint as you can see graphic design is not my background but that sweet spot would be right there in the middle and part of this mapping exercise would be to ask questions such as are there common areas of interest from CERT secretariat from TCPs are there any knowledge gaps that could potentially be filled can these gaps be addressed through a subsequent coordination group for instance looking at a specific thematic area like carbon dioxide removal or specific aspects of utilization or is the creation or establishment of a working party on carbon management required to answer some of these larger questions and we also want to ask how do these areas interact with existing platforms international platforms and initiatives on CCUS we don't want to repeat anything that's going on and so we have the clean energy ministerial CCUS initiative, mission innovation CDR mission, the greenhouse gas R&D TCP has a cost network so what we really want to do is just map the existing activities out there and see how best we can move forward and so the idea of this coordination group would be a rather short timeline and so to help CERT and its review of these different activities and so we already know what some of the TCPs are working on but there's a lot of TCPs out there that may be interested or may be touching on carbon management aspects that we don't know so I invite you to attend the white board after these sessions and if not I'll find you in the coming months and I'll send a polite email and ask you to participate in this group Thank you so much Carl turn to Chiara my colleague Chiara for the presentation the proposal on heat pumps Yeah thanks Per and I think Karla summarized well the purpose of the coordination group we would like to propose one on heat pumps last year we identified heat pumps as the central technologies for heat decarbonization being deployed in industry buildings or energy networks we know that several TCPs are working around these technologies from different angles so we think that coordination group on heat pumps can be beneficial both for the IA secretariat but also for TCPs how do we see the group working together and with which objectives first we would like to have periodic TCP coordination group to have TCPs exchanging relevant research topics and also identify innovation gaps for TCPs to work together but we would also like to organize workshops to exchange among TCPs and relevant external association and initiatives to provide larger visibility of TCP work but also to discuss key teams related to heat pump deployments which can inform the research around heat pumps and third objective is the one of establishing a working group to harmonize data collection and reporting about heat pumps at the moment data are quite heterogeneous for these technologies and we think it's really critical to have good data to ensure inform the policy decision making as outcomes of a group what do we see first yearly brief report on ongoing TCPs activities around heat pumps summarizing the key messages about TCP work and also mapping innovation gaps that can lead to short term collaboration opportunities and second outcomes are guidelines to improve and harmonize data collection related to heat pumps also with some test case for some countries we are estimating a timeline of two years for this activity and use working partying vice chair for buildings is available to lead the proposal heat pumping technology TCPs also supporting the proposal and we hope that many of you will be interested in this and we look forward to exchange in the whiteboard section feedbacks to improve the proposal thanks thank you very much Chiara and thanks to you and Rafa and other colleagues and Asila of course who is not here, the vice chair of buildings for the great work you did on the report that Timor mentioned yesterday when gathering all the TCPs on the report on NetZero buildings building upon our NetZero roadmap it inspired as well the ideas of the coordination groups and something that is a bit more output oriented so many thanks for also coming now with this new proposal together with the SILDA and the heat pump TCP also building upon a collaboration of the buildings coordination group I would like now to turn the floor to Robin from the district heating cooling sorry go ahead Robin your microphone Robin, your microphone yes so we felt the IEA roadmap cites district heating and cooling but its key enabling role needs to be highlighted more vigorously so we would like to engage with the IEA secretariat so that district heating and cooling as an accelerator for renewable waste heat is clear in future messaging for decision makers as such we would really like to engage with the renewable heat technology TCPs so for example including solar heating and cooling geothermal bioenergy but also as we want to make use of available waste heat and I use the term waste with her parenthesis because it's not sure shouldn't really be waste but there the the relevant TCPs could for example include nuclear and industrial related TCPs whose business cases will benefit from heat sales we would like to engage with HPT heat pumps energy storage and ISGAN because we feel that in putting together the district heating and cooling networks of the future with the best enabling role those technologies are part of that scenario so in summary we want to articulate the strategic role of district heating and cooling including its part in what a future integrated energy system might look like and how it will be delivered and how it will be managed this is very much along the lines of a bit of a vision and I would like to achieve it pretty quickly so I initially put down six months probably that's a little bit optimistic but let's say within one calendar year thanks thank you very much Robin so anyone who wants to discuss this proposal and a heat pump proposal it's a perfect title for these two different proposals but at least since they're coming back to some of the discussions we had in the current buildings coordination group we put them together and Keata and Rafa will be there to help facilitate the discussions now another topic of course that we do have coordination group under the energy working part integrated electricity systems related to those discussions we have talking about flexibility resilience digitalization and under this slide we have also now a whiteboard but we did as I said receive one proposal on flexibility for the carbonized energy system from the energy storage GCP so I turned to Bert to say a few words about what he had ideas behind this proposal thank you Per so indeed we had a proposal on flexibility so I think if you want to go for flexibility carbonized energy system that can be achieved by of course also energy efficiency stays important and then of course also renewable energy sources and flexibility if you have to deal with renewable energy source you have to deal with flexibility so because you need energy somewhere in time somewhere at a certain place and there are different approaches you can talk about storage you can talk about demand management you can talk about sector coupling and everything will be needed in a future energy system so flexibility as such means different DCP so that's also why we think that this one is a perfect topic for a coordination group we haven't discussed it yet in the Exco of course so that will take place in November but we also in my opinion the output we have to focus on certain use cases because flexibility is so broad that yeah everyone can join but what will be the outcome so I think the main goal should be to have clear use cases so that they can present later on to the search and to everyone in the outside world thank you very much Bert, indeed it's a very broad topic you get the biggest whiteboard down there and I'm sure there are many other colleagues that also are interested in this area as well so again see this later this morning as the first brainstorm but we're happy from the Secretary too with our colleagues in other parts of the Secretary that also work on this on a daily basis to assist in those discussions and what could be concrete outputs moving forward then before handing back to Timor I will just give the floor to Paul Miles from the Combustion TCP to prevent the proposal on Sustainable Thanks Pair we don't have a strictly defined proposal put together yet we've been talking primarily with the advanced motor fuels group and Dina isn't here to defend herself so please blame me for any inappropriate directions you might see what we are thinking is that we need to recognize that even on terrestrial applications there's a lot of areas that are going to be very difficult to electrify and we're going to see potentially different fuels in many different sectors we could see potentially alcohols in regional agriculture applications we could see hydrogen in on-road applications we're seeing a very strong emphasis from both the energy companies as well as the OEMs looking and dropping fuels methanol to gasoline ethanol to gasoline there's a lot of chaos in the area and we just have limited resources and understanding what the end use applications are going to look like how we need to adapt the powertrains for different fuels and the objective here is to try to get some clarity and understand regionally and application specific what fuels are most appropriate where we should focus our efforts outputs would be reports identifying these and potentially clarifying market sizes trying to understand how the OEMs can make some money on these alternative fuels also looking from a self-interest perspective trying to understand how to focus technical research on end use applications to solve specific applications to solve specific problems that would be important so that's the general idea we're also of course the hydrogen TCP we're in discussions with as well as bioenergy they're clearly linked to this effort we'd be very glad to get your input at the whiteboard meeting whiteboard session and help us try and define this better thank you very much Paul and thanks to all of you for those introductions to the proposals for the transport we had a transport coordination group here in Paris on Tuesday as well and I've asked look at the vice chair for transport also in that together with so they have transport whiteboard and on that whiteboard also write down the discussions you had not all of course necessarily linked to TCP coordination groups but it's also examples of what type of discussions there are in the current coordination groups I mean we see this marriage as a pilot phase the proposals you hear are quite different from each other but I could also help conceptualize that this mechanism is quite nimble, flexible responding to needs and interest and of course resources but the first step at least and we really welcome these first proposals and when you go down to the whiteboards later we'll instruct the initiators to also have a quick recap again on the initial ideas but I'll get back to Leitron again before we go down there exactly how it will work out so thank you very much and I turn it back to Timor yeah thank you very much Pierre and thanks everyone for the for the first initial suggestions we now have what is it, 17 minutes until the coffee break so anyone who would like to intervene ask questions for clarifications if you already have excellent new ideas for possible TCP coordination groups such as Brian which is wonderful or otherwise initial reactions to the proposals that have been made then now is a good time we will use the session before lunch to discuss the proposals around the whiteboards as he already said that have been set up and in the way he presented it on one of his slides so Brian first and then Hans thank you the question is about cloning in the sense that I think Getzap could contribute usefully to all of those coordinating groups but we have limited bandwidth and for the purposes of today I'm one person when I look at what's proposed and I compare it with our current work program as a way of kind of trying to distill down the the options for us and also reflect on recent collaboration we've had a very successful collaboration with the hydrogen TCP looking at hydrogen within the system and from our perspective energy system modeling drawing on the research developments from the hydrogen TCP and similarly we've had a very good engagement with other TCP's on the issue of flexibility, resilience and digitalization more so flexibility and resilience I suppose in the first instance so those two jump out at me in our current work program the societal aspects is a very important part so too is critical minerals so that reduces it to four but it doesn't address my challenge for today which is what I was coming to what's your suggestions in terms of how we do we kind of move around to a particular whiteboard do we pick one or is there an option to engage beyond just one and I'm also I suppose thinking in terms of the broader question of with these coordination groups that question of limited bandwidth I'm not sure how you've considered that thank you thanks a lot I suggest we collect a couple of interventions first and then we react and answer our recovery thank you season actually from enhanced group we have been talking about to suggest a coordination group related to energy security as some countries still are quite far away from moving towards to renewable also to hydrogen hydrogen or electric so coming with the energy security will be a chance to keep the coal the coal TCP the working party fossil energy options as well to be working on this type of scenario so a coordination group related to energy security we'll be interested to see how this can evolve and see how to keep it as we mentioned yesterday international energy agency phones was related to how energy security related to oil was and today still some countries and society is still required for a baseline or the fossil fuels so energy security can be a strategic coordination group to suggest that thank you thank you excellent idea I guess there's also broadening of the energy security concepts or in that in case that comes forward maybe also useful to include TCP is related to renewables or working on critical minerals there are various different angles energy storage might have a say on the way it was not my remark here so now I want to come back to the beginning of this meeting where Per said that the time limited mandate no longer than two years because I have a small problem with that not a problem but isn't that too short especially if SP want to work around certain use cases then maybe the two years timeline is too short to come with results I'll let Per comment on that later timelines are always a challenge I acknowledge that working at the IA secretariat all the colleagues who presented earlier will know what I mean I have Italy on the list next thank you very much I would also have a comment not really from the Italian point of view but from the coordination group on the integrated electricity system of course very I acknowledge the interest on flexibility digitalization I think this is a very very important point about which we already had some work in the coordination group I would also bring another priority I think in the integrated electricity system coordination group that is resilience so how are we going to manage an energy system so not only an electricity system but an energy system in these scenarios of higher than 1.5 degrees so let us imagine a scenario 3 degrees or more this is going to have potential implications not only on the electricity system in terms of transmission and distribution but also on the generation part on the storage part on the end-use part and I think it could be another important issue to be considered as a potential coordination group thank you thank you thank you I have next users on my list thank you this is a flip back to a question around process so three key guiding principles clear outputs, clear timelines secured resources I'm just trying to think through the mechanics of approval processes presumably the template to CERT is quite short so are you imagining that there is sort of some in principle approval of CERT and then a stage gated approval once resources are secured or are you imagining a more detailed template where we actually outline a program of work and how resources have been secured for this before that goes to CERT so it's kind of that sequencing process is a very good point, thank you David I have Japan next good morning colleagues Japan very much welcome a lot of proposal on coordination groups I haven't talked with Japanese contracting parties of relevant TTPs covering this wide range of proposal on coordination group but I had a chance to talk with Japanese stakeholder relevant to carbon management in many ministry of economy trade and industry created a new division carbon management division this summer this clearly indicates Japanese government interest in this particular area and I talked with the head of this new division carbon management as well as one of the Japanese contracting parties of the TTPs under working party proposal energy they are very much interested in supportive for coordination group on carbon management that's just one example on the way forward we will be the coordination group will be approved by the end of this year even though some stages approval process could be taken as just suggested in February the ministry will get together here in Paris I think secretariat should somehow report this new initiative to ministers that element could be reflected in the ministerial communication as discussed yesterday the strength of TTP community is stability continuity and consistency but at the same time we can change as needed I think a coordination group is a good indicator of that thank you thank you very much Toshia I have heat pump technologies please thanks I have just a short comment regarding this two years limited time first of all I have had the same thoughts like word that's too short but on the other hand I think we have to do it now because the transformation HGC system happens now and if we have the support from my air secretary I think we can achieve it and however if we see still that we are have remaining topics to address I guess then the extension should be possible so I would stick to this two years thank you I have hydro now thank you I have a bit of a process question so we're already having some discussions with other TCPs on some collaborative activities like the wind and energy storage TCP and these activities could be rolled into some of the coordination the new coordination groups that are being suggested like the flexibility or the energy security ones so what is their suggestion should we carry on with these activities as planned or roll them into a group thank you for Australia thanks just wanted to start with agreeing with David about the simplifying the implementation of this we do need to make sure that so the coordination element is really important but it does increase the complexity of the relationships that we already have between certain working parties and TCPs we just need to make sure that the information that we get from this process is really commensurate with the added layer of bureaucracy that goes into it and I think a two-stage pass into getting in principle agreement to get things in motion so that we don't kind of tie ourselves in knots trying to agree and to move forward really also just wanted to emphasise the need to think about the TCP coordination groups as a way to link in better with those other initiatives and to get more buy-in on research so not just to think about the TCP coordination groups as between yourselves but also as a way to hook in better with some of those initiatives and it was really great to hear some of those thinking that has already occurred with the 101 and others from Australia's perspective I think we'd have interest in being part of or helping support what are critical minerals coordination groups coordination group looks like also hydrogen and the power systems and just to put the idea out there around industry decarbonisation and where that might fit amongst the various TCPs thanks thanks a lot I see no further flex so Per, you want to go through the long list of questions with pleasure, thank you very much everyone maybe starting with Brian so we will when we're coming back from well after the EDS midis intervention we again come back here and we'll explain to you exactly how it will work down at the whiteboards but indeed it will be a bit floating as you start at one whiteboard but we definitely also feel free when you're done with that one to move to the next one or other one that's that on time and resources I think this is a critical graphic designer either but I think Carl you showed it in that slide too that there should be an interest and interest comes with resources as well so I think this is an essential issue and it will be the same for the secretariat especially on some of you just because the topic you're working on if it's modelling or or hydrogen it might be that there's an interest from many other TCPs to work with you I think team also knows that with having much of the modelling capacity for this team and how valuable that is for colleagues across the agency but of course everyone's time is limited so here in the process and that's why we keep repeating the importance of resources available so it's obviously fine for TCP to say no and in the way we phrase it it should be phrased in the template as anyone who's supporting is always ready as well to put down resources and then if it doesn't work now I mean then at least there may become future opportunities in the future as well and maybe going to that process issue as well I think that was thanks for raising that it's worth maybe saying now this is a pilot so we're starting with the first round of proposals again trying to make the process as simple as possible with submission date deadline in December and then we will work and prepare those for cert in January for approval written approval we need to speak with the cert cabinet as well what's the most best way forward also for that written approval and then I would say that we take it from there as well to think about how do we alluding to PET as well make sure it doesn't add a heavy burden on either TCP or the cert but also seeing it this could be something that's relatively flexible so if it's not once per year but maybe a few times per year there is this rounds of approvals but again it needs to be discussed obviously with the cert cabinet as well was the most feasible way forward but thanks for raising important point on the timelines we actually used the word preferably two years so there's some flexibility at the same time it will be as I said up to cert to approve and having trying to create a mechanism that can be like allowing collaboration between TCP in a more flexible way we understand some of your challenges but then it might also as I think heat pump TCP alluded to maybe can be at different stages or get an extension so there are also options but it's preferably two years but coming with proposal next year with delivering 2028 that's a very long time away so maybe we need some mid-stage interim report or something but again this is the pilot I think we learn as well we see what type of projects and ideas come through and again with those resources available to put together so how time intensive will the TCP collaboration group project be as another thing we curious to see as well on topic wise so Michaela thanks for mentioning resilience so on the whiteboard we prepared this also the word resilience in the topic so please feel free to add any ideas of concrete outputs to that topic on industrial decarbonization we have a new working part of course on that topic and we had a chat with the industry TCP with yesterday but here as well as of course an area to see knowing yes it's one TCP focusing in the industry R&D but of course many of you are relevant for industrial decarbonization as such topics too so it would be interesting to see and talk with you what could be potential activities there as well on the good point raised by CESA I mean it's also making me think and I didn't present that but it's part of the package that CERT agreed to the TCP coordination group is an elevated mechanism in the same time CERT decided to elevate what we call thematic discussions so it's not always that you need to have a coordination group it might be that some topics can first start as a thematic discussion and that could also be the case if you don't gather at a time to actually start a coordination group that the starting point is just to organize with CERT a discussion on a certain topic and I think what you brought up is a good example that also came up in the discussions with the CERT how to address some of these challenges linked to energy security I think also is of interest to CERT so something definitely will come back to as well but maybe as a first point if you want to put the TCP coordination group proposal together that could be a starting point as well to see how this could be channeled and what topics to raise and thanks Toshi for also reflecting back on how this matches priorities in your government and thanks for the input for the preparations of the ministerial meeting we'll take that with us as well I think that's it and sorry if I missed something but again thank you very much and continue to looking forward to getting more feedback and ideas and the session will have before lunch back to you Timur Thank you very much Per and thank you very much to all of you for the engaged discussion from my perspective just to say I think Paul said it earlier there is already collaboration taking place between TCPs in general and I think this mechanism and this goes to the two years question or not and preferably or however we frame it but it's also a vehicle to form a task force if you want to know on a specific topic that is particularly important for the CERT or for the TCP community in a way that in some ways it feels to me that we'd want that to be in a way nimble both in process terms but also in the way we bring it together but that's just my perspective and of course up to discussion everyone I don't know David do you want to, did you just raise the flag again or okay then I'll hand it over to you but then we break It was just a request could we have a whiteboard space for concrete suggestions for the mechanisms of collaboration that might prove a useful mechanism whether people have concerns around time or resourcing or anything like that just a space we can park those ideas I think that's a great idea and just on resourcing you know this is very much on my mind as well so we'll do what we can to help on that front but we'll need to break now partly at 10.55 we come back 11.00 is our executive director intervening who's just calling me so I break now so everyone is so well on time that we have three minutes left very good I'm very impressed very very impressed should be next time just say for every session that the executive director is coming I think it's probably a good idea we'll introduce that in what do you think Amanda? Actually I do that with my kids all the time it usually doesn't work as well though you tell him the executive director is coming I should actually during the pandemic in the first few times I had international meetings and the kids were around because they weren't at school and I would say look I'm representing Prime Minister Trudeau at this meeting and you can't say anything in the background it worked for like the first two and then they were like wait you're not alright colleagues so as you can see we're joined by the executive director Fatih Birol so wonderful to have you join us here for this meeting we've been having a really excellent day and a bit so far and promise of more interesting things to be discussed today I know that you are always so busy but let me say congratulations on the launch of the World Energy Outlook we were chatting with Laura yesterday and I know that you have many things on the go and that you just hosted a very successful critical mineral summit so without further ado I'm going to hand it over to you to address some remarks and we'll take some questions after thank you great pleasure Amanda and good morning dear colleagues it is great to see so many colleagues from the different TCP's and members of the search and other colleagues I just came here in fact I have two reasons to come here one is to thank all of you we are making use from your expertise from your cooperation from your contribution different parts of our work we are reports our statements I know that my colleagues give a call here and there to learn more from you on different topics which is an extremely important source of information source of inspiration for us in the agency first of all I just wanted to thank you in person to come here it is the second pardon fifth addition if I am not wrong of this TCP is coming together believe it or not when I became the head of this agency in the year 2015 one of the first things I did is to call having a universal TCP meeting it was 2015 this decision was made I don't know if the meeting took place in 2015 or 16 do you remember 2015 okay so at that time my the idea was why I asked for that meeting I thought it was the TCP's are so important and there is so much potential that we are not making use of it compared to the potential and we should try to between the TCP's there were silos try to try to bring those silos down and what I see after five years see and hear from my colleagues and talking with several representatives of the TCP's we made a lot of progress in that direction if you ask me if we made enough progress that I would like to see I would like to see five years ago my answer is perhaps not necessarily so but I think we made a lot of progress here so the second reason why I came here is in addition to thanking to you what as we can do as agency in order to make use of this great great potential that the TCP serve I understand Amanda we had a discussion we had a discussion yesterday and this I am looking forward to hear from you from Timur and from other colleagues and look at those suggestions but if you have any other suggestions directly writing to me please just do write to me this is a very simple email address just write to me if you have any ideas to do that one of the reasons why in my view I as I think many people agree show a lot of success is one important word nimbleness this is our character we are very quick in many areas I give a couple of examples in the last few years after Covid when everybody went home we were working from home and the global economy and many of the countries economies almost collapsed and the governments were thinking of coming up with some recovery packages to give a stimulus to the economies we came up with the sustainable recovery plans what kind of economic packages governments need to put in place so that they have some sustainability item sustainability considerations in it so that it not only leads to a rebound of the economy it can be hydrogen it can be anything and how we can see that the economy is rebounded but at the same time the clean energy gets boost and we are very happy to see that the many many governments use those ideas in terms of sustainability recovery packages the second one is 24th of February the Russia invaded Ukraine had a lot of impact on the energy markets especially for Europe and one week later first of March we came up with a 10 point plan what Europe should do in order to in order to go through this winter respond to Russia's challenge and at the same time be in line with its climate targets 10 point plan efficiency renewables we also said some very tough things for some countries for example Germany and Belgium extend the lifetime of the nuclear power plants I don't know if we have anybody from Germany I hear my right I don't know so it has not an easy thing but both Bundeskanzl shorts and the Prime Minister crew agree with that and Germany one year Belgium will longer so this is another example of the nimbleness and we are thanked again and again by the leaders of the governments with the collection dresses for our nimbleness I can give you many examples maybe one last example again more than the nimbleness it is how the IES knows is a strong one I don't know if many of you have seen we made the report on the grits how important the grits are if you want to bring the renewables in the consumers and how come that it is a major blunt spot in the many governments energy agenda so you can beat as much as you can but as long as you don't have the grits to bring to the consumers they just wait there and our numbers show that the 1500 gigabytes of renewables are just waiting in the queue to be connected to the grid because of the lack of capacity of grits is a huge amount of renewables so we also chose a few areas that there was not enough attention two years ago we made a report on for example for Europe it was very important the heat pumps so why heat pumps are so important in order to on one hand reduce the reliance on Russian gas and on the other hand for reaching our climate course so I'm giving you these examples to hope to see that this nimbleness the recent character the trait of the IEA getting developed day by day is also going to determine the relationship between the IEA secretariat and the TCP's so this is something that I would like to see and the IEA for us innovation is a very important topic I don't know if you have discussed but next year is our 50th anniversary we will have a major event several countries ministers but even in maybe some other guests and we would like to make a innovation a key topic during our ministerial meeting forum we want to organize and we would like to see as much as possible the TCP's around the table together with some leading innovators in the world to show the IEA's ministers there so this is what I would like to say and just to show you that how much importance we give I give to technology innovation I have recently appointed Timur as our chief technology officer for the first time we have such a responsibility and I couldn't think anybody better than Timur who is going to serve under this new capacity and Madam Chair we thank you very much for able leadership for cert at least I have understood the changes in cert you are introducing which is very helpful for us it is one of our most important committees to give us feedback on many fronts so once again thank you this was the first season I came here and second piece if you have other suggestions thoughts how we can even improve our relationship between the TCP's and the IEA secretary in a nimble way we are ready to look at your suggestions closely and if you have any questions I will try to answer them as well thank you thank you so much if there are questions or comments for Dr Birol please raise your flag just go ahead Brian from our TCP thank you very much and I suppose firstly to congratulate you on that response to both COVID and to the Russian invasion in Ukraine were hugely evident I think around the world as you mentioned the nimbleness but it's nimbleness that's grounded in really solid evidence and being able to bring that evidence quickly to bear was hugely impressive and you could see the impacts and I noticed in the WIO report this year it kind of quantified how Europe did meet the challenge and it was interesting how much of it was on the demand side the prediction was maybe two thirds on the supply side two thirds were actually on the demand side which also shows the importance I think of the societal mobilization in all of these things my question relates to the because with COVID and the Russian invasion they were two crises and now we see we're at a real dangerous point I think in terms of what's happening currently in the Middle East and I suppose this begs the question how do we then respond to that in terms of what your own thoughts are and then if the TCP's can help the IAA in response to what's happening there thank you I don't see any other flags up at the moment so just now go ahead Cesar thank you Amanda thank you it's a pleasure to meet you as part of my generation we aspire our job with you so thank you for all what you are doing and the International Energy Agency I come from Latin America and Latin America today is implementing a lot of the new options on technology like renewables, like hydro sources, like hydrogen source for the worldwide market how Latin America can become more visible on this type of scenario is just my question are these options as we can provide knowledge technology collaboration and innovation thank you thank you very much Cesar any other questions before I hand it over to Fatih to answer alright thank you maybe I start with the question from Brian it's extremely important what you mentioned Brian this is can be amazingly important for energy climate and everything I was just yesterday in Brussels I had many meetings including one with the NATO Secretary General and with others so what I say I told them I have three concerns looking at the current situation one if one of the major oil exporters is directly involved in the crisis this with the major implications so one third of the global oil exports come from that region and the big chunk of the oil and gas especially to Asia transported through almost straight straight and if a country it can be easily blocked by a country which is in the region this would have devastating effects for the global economy so my number one concern is this if the it escalates and if we see a crisis similar to what we hit 50 years ago and there is a lot of potential to turn into crisis this is number one number two concern the world's attention is so much legitimately so on what is going on in the Middle East now and this is very legitimate because a very hot issue I am concerned that the attention that the intention community is paying to Ukraine can be weakened as a result of that because we are focusing suddenly on a new topic and another topic which is still very important which is still very valid that we have to pay attention to may lose priority this is the second concern I have the third concern I have is if the a major escalation happens there and even before the escalation we and many others were trying to channel the world's attention to COP28 and the climate issues whether we will be able to present the world that this is another crisis and peace consider this are we going to lose some some attention there so these are my three concerns what is happening in Middle East we are following it very close I can say minute by minute basis and as you may know in many similar occasions there was problem with the oil security oil supply disruption and we have our plans both on the supply side and the demand side how to deal with that issue but I hope that our plans stay in our dossiers don't go out but I see there is a I'm sure you all follow the developments I see there is a real risk that it can escalate with implications under energy markets having said that Brian if I may I know there are many colleagues working on all the fuels as the IEA we work on all the fuels on technologies oil gas, coal, renewables solar hydropower systems but looking at what happened two years ago on natural gas with Russia looking at what is happening with oil in Middle East this risks always price volatility risk geopolitics the claims that the oil and gas represent a safe and secure part of the energy sector is weakening I just wanted to tell you and this is not expert view this is in the streets if you go in the streets of Delhi in the streets of Jakarta you are seeing and on top of that if you link this with the very fact that the climate crisis is today being born out of using a lot of fossil fuels so they think that the oil and gas they represent the safe and secure choices for the consumers around the world that claim is weakening by David every this crisis we are seeing Latin America this is a very important part of our work in fact only is it next week we are releasing we have a word energy outlook we publish every year and this year we have a special edition called Latin America energy outlook it is coming next next week we are publishing this report and we country profiles of all key Latin American countries and the region itself and I myself going to make starting from January Brazil invited by President Lula a Latin America tour to talk with the countries in the region these countries are extremely important for us and we see the reason why we have decided to make the energy outlook one is you rightly mentioned the energy plants and strategies in the countries for many reasons come to crossroads now solar, wind, green hydrogen, electric cars and critical minerals they are all there is a huge potential there but how to have a potential on the country base and also regional bases is important it is one reason why we make this report and the second in many Latin American countries there are new governments they are coming with new ideas new suggestions we wanted to provide some guidance to those and we have an excellent relationship with Brazil who is going to chair the G20 next year but also with Chile I am having a meeting tomorrow with the Colombian minister with Argentina and many others so we are very keen to make even closer to a year so Madame Chair these are some words from me but again if you have questions, thoughts, suggestions we are very nimble and simple organization we don't have so much hierarchy we don't know just send me an email suggesting critics we love critics don't say better words but critics are okay you made it wrong please use this we are very happy to get this and we pay attention to that because we think we are students of energy and climate we are trying to do our work without fear and favor this is what the IEA is all about but once again many things to TCPs, many things to all of you in person over to you Madame Chair Thank you very much that was very insightful we really appreciate you coming to speak with us being generous with your time I understand you have to get to another meeting but we really really appreciate it I think it's very clear that you see the value potential in this energy technology network and I'm sure that colleagues will take you up on your kind offer to reach out with any suggestions and nicely phrased criticism if there is such a thing so thank you I think I am handing it back over to you Thank you very much Amanda so as I promised we'll come back now to the second part of session 5 which will be we'll go down to the whiteboards and showing an example of nimbleness we have a follow up on David's suggestion as well to have a special whiteboard also on let's see where it is sorry okay so again start from the beginning in I think you all remember where room 2 is it's just on the right side by the next entrance when we came into the building we of course will all escort you down there but then in the front of the room 2 we have the whiteboard on carbon management and there will be Carl standing also in that space we have on the built environmental ones so heat pumps and thermal networks we have Chiara and Rafa there but of course also Robin we have behind the room so he has continued in the corridor straight and there you have three white boards one which will be a big one as well on flexibility resilience digitalization my colleagues Amy and Silver will be there holding the pens then we have in that space too on hydrogen on critical minerals to separate whiteboards where you also have colleagues Amalia from the Secretariat together with Paul and Olmar but please feel free to share the pens with each other as well so it's not since this is a brainstorm as well we have hopefully a number enough of pens around also critical minerals we have KC standing there as well and then if you continue well in room 2 which is then just next to that in between that and the front of the room there we have put two flip charts this is where you can add other ideas for coordination groups again maybe just add a name of the coordination group and then some initial ideas of potential outputs and you can also write your TCP name and then others can go there as well to add their names if they find this could be an interesting topic but again it might be the case as we don't want to feel anyone forced into these TCP coordination groups there's also an opportunity of course to share other ideas or feedback to us from these two days of meetings and things we should focus more on again we don't have to you've already sent it don't have to send it again let's just make sure that you keep yourself busy and then in the last space which should also be a door on the back of room 2 I hope it's open but we'll make sure it's open there we have three white boards of flip charts one which we'll be looking at sustainable fuels for combustion engines but also other transport related topics they have pull miles from combustion TCP and look at standing we have one which we can now call people centered using IE language here but associated social changed aspects gender diversity and other aspects was raised yesterday could also be an opportunity there and similar to what we say in room 2 you can also just put down ideas and then in a simple way find who's interested what could be potential outputs and then come back to David's point we also have then a white board on coordination group process and please feel free to name the title of that one as you prefer and David will give you a pen to start off on the discussions there again we haven't done this before but they're trying to challenge the spaces we have in the headquarters here and but we see with the engagement we had in the discussions yesterday and also learning from the past experience that this is the kind of hopefully the stage we can provide to you and our colleagues from the secretary to start brainstorm ideas on future TCP coordination groups the last thing to say before handing back to you chairs just to say that we will make lunch available around 12.15 12.30 will be up here again back in room 1 outside of room 1 and then start here at 2 o'clock in the afternoon alright let's go so dear colleagues welcome back to this last session of the TCP universal meeting it's been really 10s one and a half days thanks a lot to all of your active engagement I hope the breakout sessions were useful before lunch and I hope the lunch was good as well of course now what we're going to deal with in the last session here is the review of the TCP request for extension mechanism I've said that before in any organization you need to reinvent yourself from time to time and think about whether what we are doing is still the right approach towards present day challenges and whether the opportunities to improve things reduce the administrative burden if that is possible at all so from our perspective the request for extension process being integrated into the technology collaboration program is a strength but there are a couple of weaknesses of course that the SIRT review revealed and therefore the SIRT agreed earlier this week to revise this mechanism for seeking a decision at its March meeting Per will now run you through the process and yeah and then we'll take it from there Per thank you very much Timur last but not least I know you all waited for a session on request for extension but SIRT Timur is right, this is something we know as well it's an important part of the network and in the interviews we had with many of you I didn't hear from anyone who said it's not important it's not for different reasons as well and additional reasons to what Timur mentioned it's also a way for maybe larger TCP's to gather all the tasks and annexes to have those discussions as well so certainly something that we here is very valuable so it's not about and this is also recognized of course by the SIRT delegates as we talked to as well so for this last session and you have also received in the pre-read material the annex or the text that comes out from the process and the discussions with the SIRT task force with a few proposals of how to further improve both the process itself because there we received some feedback from mainly TCP's on how it's planned but also of course it's always good from time to time to also look at the on substance as well and this comes back to the discussions we had with the SIRT particular in the different meetings in the spring where there was also a wish coming back again to the ministerial mandates of Taiye to also ensure that the work and the wish of the ministers is also channeled down and also helps to guide the work of the TCP's so yes today we very much welcome to hear from you as well based on this list what you want to see yourself as we move forward to improving this process and starting here today but similar to the work on communication aiming to have a decision by SIRT at this March meeting so indeed as to repeat we had indeed a very useful self-assessment and on the questions whether there's too much burden through this process yes a few of you have expressed that there is quite a lengthy process but we also heard from many of you that it's not and it's not right to say it would be either so we take that as a balance when it comes to the amount of work amount of you have to report I mean one comment and I was discussed with the Andrews Working Party that maybe there's a bit too much focus on the end of term reporting rather on the strategic vision for the next five years so that's one comment we received that should also be and think about as we moving forward in this from now to the March meeting one of the main issues and that's what I said about maybe it's not the documentation ask that is the thing that needs to be fixed is more looking at the process itself how to ensure that the TCPs themselves yourself feel like you get strategic feedback by senior government officials either from CERT or from the Working Parties and one of the issues have been also the timing of this we know this is dealt with slightly differently in the different Working Parties but in some of the Working Parties there's an impression or an impression it's the feeling that the feedback often comes too late so you start the process with the TCPs and the Excos and then you get the chance to present early thoughts at the meeting but then the finalization of the documentation comes to the end when there's the verdict and sometimes the feedback then is a bit too late especially since it will be the decision so here that's why we would like to use today but of course also the process forward to think about how can this process be further improved so it's coming to the as I mentioned there are the recommendations from the governments from the CERT discussion was to have a better alignment with the IA ministerial mandates and this of course has changed over time as we heard yesterday but certainly aligning it to the most recent or relevant IA ministerial mandates and they have of course been strengthened the strength and focus especially in the last month of 2022 for us to work on attaining necessary missions but of course also continue to support global energy security we of course there are also issues that have been discussed in the past about ensuring there's a critical mass behind the work currently there's a minimum expectations of two contracting projects but there's now a discussion there's been a discussion among the CERT delegates to raise this to five to ensure that there's actually that critical mass so ensuring that those are hopefully active members too to ensure there's enough activities happening and results then there are a few more aspects that have been discussed with the CERT delegates that would also be important when the CERT and the working parties review the TCP's request for extensions that's linked to the funding model again of course making sure that there is transparency but also enough resources behind the activities if it's task share or cost share but at least knowing that there is enough resource communication has been on the issue which has been addressed by many of the CERT delegates to ensure that there is a communication plan or a website where it's easy for CERT delegates or government officials or other interested to learn more about the TCP's and its activities and then the second last thing is also a proven record of coordination collaboration with other initiatives and TCP's of course not to always stretch the TCP's this should not be symbolic collaboration just for the sake of it but making sure there is functional collaboration but of course in some instances and I think where this comes from what every now and then happens in big networks that you start an activity, you forget to inform others that should have been informed as well in other parts of the system that might work on something similar ensuring that you have that approach to at least when there are potential overlaps to keep each other informed when you start new activities and then it's also important to acknowledge that TCP's are using the right graphic design and branding in relation to what that provided from the secretariat on the technology collaboration program then other important guiding principles and this is what we're going to discuss maybe not so much today but also how to further suggest improvements in the documentation for the RFE process as I said I didn't mention that specifically but in 2016 there was a big review of the documentation needed for the request for extension which has slimmed down a lot of the requirements and requests still however we from the secretariat is keen to take another look at this together with the interested party to make sure that these are useful and to make sure that as I mentioned before maybe the comment from the news working party is right that maybe it's too much focus on end of term reporting when there should be more thinking about the strategic plan moving ahead also here we acknowledge that different working parties are just slightly different feedback forms so here's also a question back to us of the secretariat if we should initiate also looking how we can harmonize some of these forms one of the coming back to the point on the process so there has been and there are exceptions but an example is the ROOP the renewable energy working party to check in with the TCP and the CERT task force recommended to the CERT to also look into where this should be for any working party that is responsible for TCP so if halfway you can and have a check if the working party has made the feet the progress is promised and then you can get that kind of guidance early much early in the process then just a few months before you're actually coming up to the meeting representing your documentation one idea is we also wanted to well it came up in a CERT workshop we had in February or May whether it would make sense to also offer TCP's what's called a peer review group or friends of the TCP can have another name for it that could come in maybe after the midterm report as a sounding board that could also help the TCP react on some of those recommendations from the working party how it can further improve so in the survey we sent out before today's meeting we did ask you what kind of expertise would be useful that you might not have in your networks and it gave us a good idea of what expertise we could help with as well so that could be someone who's worked on communication as we discussed yesterday that could be someone who's been engaged with outreach, engaging with other countries, having those networks but it could also be other things for making sure that you either on substance but maybe more important you can think about how you actually organize your TCP this is voluntary of course and we will start with the pilot and the idea here is that it could be four or five individuals we from the secretariat both in the core group but also together with the desk officers we can work with the chair and the secretary to think about a good group of four or five individuals that could come and help again just as a proposal to also make sure that feedback to the TCP for improving its activity can also be something that is not just coming back to the end of the term as it's worked in some of the working parties so far so today we want to hear again your views on the request for extension proposals moving ahead you feel free as well we didn't manage to speak with all of you what's the value of the RFE process what's useful what's not is there anything essential missing and how could it be improved to really make sure it brings value to the TCP and the governments so I spoke about some of sure there will be a few more top-down criteria but in the end of the day this tool this process is to help the TCP's and my understanding from the interviews is by many seen as helpful as well just to answer before I'll get the question I'm sure it's going to come what's going to happen with the TCP's that are now in the process we of course will say we're waiting to see a little bit what happened at the universal meeting but we will work with those TCP's to see how it can be helpful as well but not if you already came quite far in the process we of course from the secretariat will not ask you to start from from going back and start from the first step again but we can have those individual conversations with each and every of the TCP okay go back so I stop here and then turn back to Timor thank you very much Per and before we go into your thoughts on these questions I would like to invite three colleagues to share their reflections from the TCP's point of view on what was just presented the first intervention will be from Torra from the 4U TCP thank you for the floor thank you well I will present the 4U experience on behalf of Hans Polziderius who is not with us anymore but from our point of view the RFE request for extension process in principle is okay as it is now the only point being that the feedback that comes from the UVP comes at a very late stage so giving feedback at a midterm review could mitigate that and here we could have in this review include clear suggestions that the TCP would need to consider in the upcoming RFE the problem with more involvement at the start of the RFE process is that there is very little to reflect on so even though I do not have a chart to show you the reporting to the UVP and EIS it could look like that you have on year one and two standard yearly reporting on the third year you have a midterm review including a standard yearly reporting on the fourth year standard yearly reporting and the fifth year you have the RFE process that could be included so we will be very open to the idea of a midterm reporting thank you thank you very much Torra now over to Azadeh from the equality TCP thank you so as a disclaimer we joined the TCP network in 2017 so we have only gone through one request for extension and so for us the process was quite heavy as it actually happened in parallel with the modernization of the implementing agreement so we had to invest a lot of efforts into that I think overall it took us around eight months three different working group meetings but we were fortunate to have multiple internal and external rounds of feedback so that was really helpful for us to complete the process but it certainly was a very positive experience for us to go for this process because it allowed us to actually rethink our objectives and strategies and it energized our TCP because we really started to take up more work and make sure that we are moving forward for instance it was during the request for extension process that we decided to actually rebrand our TCP to quality TCP and realize that we would benefit from this rebranding to make sure that we are recognized on an international level the only so I think we are quite in support of your new proposals and it would have certainly helped us if we knew about the request for extension process before we started the process at that point because we also needed to have a systematic documentation of our activities I think as we are one of the social TCP's we do not have a lot of reports or different type of publications that some of the colleagues are doing here so with some of the webinars or different networking we really had to collect them by contacting all of our ex-commembers and asking them to remember all this that would have been helpful to know exactly what is needed from the get go to make sure that we have all of them documented and I think the other issue that we had was that every year we decide about the budget and how we are going to allocate the resources we were not really aware of how much effort needs to go into the request for extension so if there is an idea of how extensive you have to work on this that would have also been beneficial for us but we are very happy with the new suggestions thank you thank you very much as a day now Joanna from IETS yes and IETS is industrial energy related technologies and systems and we have been around I will be new share as of next year so I haven't been around but IETS has been around for quite a while as a TCP and when we reflect on this it's easy to reflect on that it's usually as when you do the strategic platform for business planning you do a new extension for a TCP you do a strategic plan and an operative plan and then when you start a year or you start a strategic year and you have your extension you kind of tend not to look at that until it's the end of the term and it's up for new request or a new strategic platform so we can say that and I think also that if you have done your work for quite a while it's easy that you tend to do the same going forward and I think that when you have this process you suggest the midterm review you suggest the peer reviewing process I think that's rather good because it eases up it makes it easier to revisit the strategic plan more frequently and it's not if I interpret it correctly it's not that you want to add an administrative burden but rather to reduce the administrative burden and replace it with a more proactive and continuous revisiting of what are we doing contemporary as Australia said if we want to be relevant we need to make those revisiting of our strategic plans more frequently than once every five years so I think that in general those suggestions for changes in the process are good since they do not seek to increase control and administration but to support and to revisit the plans and make adjustments proactively rather and reactively and I also think that it can facilitate changes in the TCP plans easier when you have the midterms and so on that you can make smaller changes instead of that to go five years and then you discover that you need to make larger changes and it becomes a barrier so that we applaud and we also appreciate that you strive to make the administrative burden less because it's the utility of the extension process to the TCP but also to the CFT and the IA that is the important part not how many pages we have filled in so we appreciate that, thank you thank you very much I hear some general support to the medium-term review and we are certainly I'm not a big fan of bureaucracy myself so I'm all for this type of notion now I have three noted three colleagues who want to intervene right away just to remind everyone of the general thrust of questions that we have where do you see the value of the RFE process, what is useful, what is not anything missing, how could it be improved to bring more value to both the TCP and the governments I had wind TCP first yeah, thank you so we are at the end of the process right now, hopefully get the next extension approved in two weeks time at the group meeting absolute valuable process to rethink about the strategy we don't find it to come with some to do it in the current format the things you had on the communication that is usually there's not really guidance how to do that and I'm referring here to the website because our colleague yesterday from Japan made that example that this template is really useful and necessary because then the information is in a structured way and yet sometimes trouble finding this information on the respective website so getting guidance what should be on every TCP's website for server or group members to find that in place where they expect that that will be helpful what I'm a bit puzzled by is by the bitterm review or intermediate process because we do send these annual briefs what happens with that information it's a good question maybe one of the colleagues can answer but before that I'll turn to the next one AFC thank you so I think the request for extension process is very important to also look at what we have done and how to improve our work I also think that the suggestions one thing that I'm kind of missing is like one thing the midterm report I don't think it's necessary what is necessary is that we involve the working party that we increase the involvement of the working party in the final year of the request for extension so what happened to us was that we fulfilled the requirements in the request for extension process so we sent in the notion of activities in the spring meeting to the UWP we got some feedback we implemented or drafted our strategic work plan with the EXCO members in an EXCO meeting which took a lot of effort and time of the EXCO meeting to finalize it then we sent it into the IAA so for me this was a pair review group so we got feedback from the IAA secretary we got feedback from the chair of the transport coordination group and we implemented the feedback into the final draft of the request for extension documentation and then at the fall NQ's working party meeting we kind of got blown off away because the recommendation didn't actually align with the picture we received during the request for extension process by the IAA secretary or by the desk officer so the pair review group I think it's very good but it should also implement the participation of the respective working party in the final year and between the two working party meetings so that's the recommendation, the final recommendation from the working party has not the end for us with not a five year extension of the technology collaboration program but only a two year prolongation which actually adds again the whole work in preparation of the documents in the next couple of EXCO meetings so actually we want to go forward but the focus in the future EXCO meetings will again be the report on how to tackle the issues that are questioned in the recognition by the UWP as well as how to prepare the documentations again so maybe there's a lack of strategic advisement of the working party during the process which could have been adopted earlier and not at the final step where we are now in the situation where I only have a verbal feedback I can't even reach out to the EXCO members because I don't know what is written in the recommendations and the meeting was already more than four weeks ago the next EXCO meeting is coming up and we have to prepare this meeting so when we hear about the bureaucratical burden this is a burden right now for us to handle it so I would suggest that this process is improved by all the things we just seen but also that the NGOs working party or the respective working parties taking their position and also going with us through the process and not being at the beginning and at the end maybe critical comments should be in the first meeting and not in the last meeting where we can't add anything anymore to the strategic work plan that's my call thank you very much, I now have HPT thanks first of all I would like to support my colleague from ETS said us that the midterm report that is of high relevance and who even extend it to a midterm evaluation we did it before the last request for extension and it was very helpful as a preparation tool for the request for extension and on the other hand I think the strategic work plan that is the most important leading document to operate the TCP and we have always to be aware what is written in this strategic work plan we have to reflect what is going on around us and if you have to adapt it yes or no and when it comes to evaluation of new proposals, new projects then I think the strategic work plan that's a document that you have to reflect to but I'm a little bit missing in this regard is what is the strategic work plan of our company so I guess we are just the department of the company so what is the strategic work plan of maybe the end user or is it the search that is clear in which direction and what adaption, what evaluation you see usually we have very good help from the IEA desk officers to support us in the evaluation with new information what is going on what is of relevance to adapt the strategic work plan thanks thank you any other views, thoughts everyone else is happy with the request for extension process I see Bioenergy TCP thank you maybe one concrete suggestion would be in relation to the five years the duration of the term because ideally I mean every TCP works a bit differently but ideally you would have one or two planning cycles for the TCP fit under the same term which provides certainty and it's also a way to ensure that those programs of work for the tasks and with the TCP as a whole are a way and a means to implement the strategic plan and the related objectives so as of now with five years, five years is way too long for a program of work no government would commit to five years of work especially in a task and but two and a half years it's not really administratively feasible because you need either two years, three years so if you had an even number, if it was four or six it would be much easier to have then because when we do then our planning for the triennium so some TCPs I think two years we have three years we always say subject to renewal of the TCP term we never quite can align and refer in the plans to the strategic objectives because then they will change and so if you had either four years or six years it would be easier to have programs of work either two or three years and they can again have two fit under the same cycle under the same within the same term, thank you thanks a lot thanks Timo we find the process echoing what others have said very useful and it works well for us just one suggestion I have on the criteria that might be a bit cheeky but it talks about the alignment of the TCPs with the IEA ministerial mandates but of course the ministerial mandates should lean on the TCP analysis and results in determining and defining their mandate so it's again I see these processes as iterative and I think that can be sometimes lost in how we articulate them because of course we report and should and get useful advice but when it's expressed just in that way it kind of misses that flow of information analysis in the other direction that's good thank you sounds good any other views we'll probably be able to react to some but I'm hearing if I'm understanding correctly a bit of mixed views on the midterm review I mean is that a question of the working party everyone is working with or is it are there other points I wonder yeah wind again I understand that so again back to the annual briefs is that only something we do in the group and other working parties don't have that I do not understand so yes we can take the same brief and put it a different format but information should be available already if I'm understanding this correctly then it's group specific to and so that might be one of the reasons in that case I can't see is that you Dennis thank you so I have to confess that the process is not entirely clear to me how this information flows from the TCP's to the and I'm also unclear as to what information is supposed to get had our way so maybe some kind of standardization of what our expectations are I think that's something that is on us to communicate down like what do we need to know about your work in order to give you a proper assessment of the request is worthwhile endeavor that we could take up between now and March just as a suggestion thanks make sense there are no further comments maybe Pedro you want to react to some of the points that we raised thanks thanks a lot and I don't hesitate to come after the meeting as well of course and what we will do is take this feedback also other feedback we have received and within the next week start looking at the process from now until up to the March meeting and looking at the documents closely to see how some of these top-down criteria etc that now cert has put on the table can be integrated in a proper way without of course adding that means to burden but rather helping the guidance and expectations from cert on the question or the comment about the annual briefing I think yeah who reads this I mean this goes through the working parties and we have provided this information as well to cert but that was one of the reasons why we wanted to have the discussion yesterday as well on communication that there is something here that UTCPs do a very good job on putting this information together yes we have slightly different procedures from the different working parties something to take a look at but we from the secret I mean want to do two things one of course is to see how we can use the delegates hub or any communication with the certain working party delegates also remind them that this information that we do store is always available on the on the delegates hub but then the second question is which we discussed yesterday which is also okay what information are cert government officials asking for so that's why we will take a look as well on the annual the template for the annual briefings we haven't started sorry we haven't started that process yet so I can't say too much about it here now but if we might come back to this as well and consult with the TCP's because of course on one hand won't tell something that's useful for the government officials that's supposed to read it but also we want to make sure that the information we're asking for is also something that could be easily provided on the midterm review add a comment on that I think it was good to hear different views on that in this group as well I think we take another thought about that we will speak with our colleagues Paolo Frankel and others on the operation for in Roup I think what I've heard from him but also other TCP's in Roup is that this is something that's been quite useful and to be honest I don't know exactly how this is done in practice but we'll definitely look into that as a starting point for the thinking around the midterm review and it could also be one of the reasons why the different views can also be with the experience with the working party but I can also assume it has something to do with the size of the TCP so for a smaller TCP maybe it's more difficult to have it well for large TCP in an area where the technology is changing a lot and government priorities are changing maybe there's a greater need for having those activities but certainly we'll think more about that and to mention it as well at the beginning it's when you start it at the start of the review process you are a bit you know what I shouldn't say where it's going but at least it's very hard to maybe come in with the feedback or ask the TCP to provide an update so as to think about what timing is and as for the first years as you said it could start with having just the annual briefings but then at the midterm review after that you add out a process where you ensure that you get the right expertise if it's from the working party or from another group just making sure that things are vetted in the way that they should be before they're coming up for the decision or the review by the working party or the cert to avoid situations of course where decisions feedback comes as surprises and I think that also comes back to some of your intervention Mikael as well on the process for the AFC TCP and we have now a separate discussion on that too so we'll let's continue that and making sure that the process is clear for you and also for the way you go to the members for the next meeting as well so certainly something we from the secretary follow up with any other comments reactions to what passage this storage as far as I know we don't have a midterm report than our TCP so just a reflection if I have to deliver it for me it would be more useful if my last annual report for the fourth year if that can be transferred then to some kind of midterm report that having the same content and the request for extension because then we can work during that last year because I will not start working on the request for extension two and a half years before date so just a remark thanks Bert that's a very good idea and I would encourage others if you have similar ideas because we are not having that much experience seeing this from a TCP site so it's very good for us to think about how to make sure that this process we will set up or try to set up to support you can also be as effective and useful as well so it's not about only additional reporting as to look at the reporting requirements from a full perspective over the five years to see how it can be make sure it's not double reporting or specific reporting but making sure that you have the right forms for the right times. Okay any other such creative ideas important perspectives don't think we know everything here as Padres said you are the TCP's you know the process much better than we do so yeah. I was just sort of rifling through dates trying to search exactly when our last request for extension was approved and it seems to me that our halfway point occurs literally in about three months time and I note that you said that the CERT meeting is in March but would you be expecting a halfway report from us no you're off the hook this time okay I see again maybe I have a suggestion so after the four meeting with a working party and if the strategic work plan is not in line with the working party or the recommendations that they have maybe you give the TCP a chance to adjust the strategic work plan until the end of the year or in two months because this would lower the burden of all the future work we have to do in the next meetings again because actually we want to work we have work to do but the next meetings now will focus on the revision of the strategic work plan which have been done by all the members and to align it again to the recommendation of the working party so if you have a chance within like a two or three months because the CERT meeting is in March it's already after the end of term of the TCP so it must be a written procedure so why don't give the ACT or the TCP a chance to adjust again to the recommendations of the working party and then see okay they take they took the chance of implementing the recommendations or yeah they don't take it and then it's a limited prolongation because right now I feel like I can't do anything anymore I don't have the recommendations in writing but time is running out the next X meeting is coming up a suggestion to think about it okay well noted Stefan? I would like to come back to what I mentioned before I think this midterm evaluation that is quite important for the TCP to do it or on the other hand what you can do is that this annual status report that is not just the report we have met this and this and we have done this that but that is the reflection where we stay regarding the strategy work line if you are on track in the next five years if you need already some changes whatever it's an ongoing document that we update on an annual basis where we stay and I guess that's I think that's of relevance for the third to know if the TCP's are on track or not and for this it's not relevant if we meet twice or three times a year for example and on the other hand I think if we need some feedback not on our reports but what is the strategy what is the development of the third so what is the strategy of the whole company that I have to do in my department thanks good point just the IA company will turn out when over to Simona thanks Simona I don't know how up to now works within the end-use working party but at least the procedure within the group I think it's helping the process as it was up to now which means that one year before that you have the request for extension we have a strategic discussion from the TCP's so we asked each TCP to present what's the plan and what they have done and what they would like to do in the the other five years whatever now depends on the time that we choose this is maybe helped a lot so we had discussion one year before the request for extension so this is can go through the maybe to try to help in this case what happened to you that's what we try to do if there is something that they need to fix it happened believe me it happened something that we asked to clarify or to put on track they did it so maybe this helped so we had what we call strategic discussion and that helped that's my experience within the group that does not seem to be common practice let me put it that way I don't know if I don't think that's the case everywhere but it sounds very plausible to me I mean a bit common sense because it's one year before so you have time to discuss maybe something for us to pick up throughout March that's still the old flag no Stefano I think any other thoughts ah yeah maybe one thought in the spring meeting working group we have strategic communication plan maybe we have to adjust this just presenting the notional list of activities is obviously not enough to get a feedback that is useful to finalize the strategic work plan because maybe the delegates were I don't mean it in a bad way but maybe not able to comment on the notional list of activities to see what the TCP wants to do in the next term because this is for me this case why right now the strategic work plan is not innovative enough as the sorry to jump in there that seems to be I mean of course the end use working party is quite broad and it's a remit and that might explain one of I mean would speak to what you were just saying in terms of expertise there was renewable and I mean renewables is a big space as well but probably a bit more obvious in the way it's confined I should say is a good point and it you know resonates to some of the discussions we have in the search know about the working parties etc their structure and you know what could be ways forward following this initial search review any other points it's now or never no not never you can still write us afterwards to Fatih exactly by the way my request for extension process forget the Middle East any other points Casey wants to come in he wants to explain us everything no he doesn't okay then I guess the next step is on us in a way all that home with us we'll take a closer look as we're moving forward to the next third meeting because that's the type of information that we need so we want to do something that is helpful here with this search review when it comes to the coordination groups when it comes to the request for extension process but also when it comes to the way the working parties are operating etc etc so all this is extremely valuable information for us because of course we talk to the delegates we hear many things but this sharing of experiences not what you experience in one working party versus another working party is exactly what we need to hear and what we need to know in order to discuss with assert what could be ways to improve things probably standardized best practices in a way so that it's helpful either way for the search as well as the TCP and make the whole process more useful for both sites in a way so if there's nobody else who wants to share frustrations with their request for extension or praise if you wish then we are we are coming to a very early end of the meeting Stefan has something to say very good sorry again I just want to say something positive to request for extension again so in the past I thought well that's a burden to do it but the last request for extension I learned that it's an opportunity for us to see what we do, why we do it, in which direction we do this and what is important is that to know the request for extension we do it not for the end user learning party we do it for us and it should be reflected by the ex-co-members as well and ex-co-members often they are people from the administration from certain countries and if they bring the content of the strategic plan in this specific technology in their environment and say that's the leading document where the technologies should be developed in the future then you have done a great job and for this I really am happy with this maybe we can discuss about the format etc but I think this document is very important so I am very supportive thanks excellent glad to hear that very good in that case we have reached the end of that session we have a bit more time I was just wondering I mean Amanda is now used to all my spontaneous type of things if it would make sense that we used the time that we just gained by one quick round of feedback perhaps that each of you tells us a bit spontaneously what he or she thought about the two days what was useful what was not so useful I am not talking about five minutes intervention each because then we are going to lose again the time that we just gained but the one thought that comes to your mind in a way about the last one and a half almost two days what went well what didn't go well and yeah does that make sense Amanda would you exactly what you want to see more of in future discussions if everyone agrees then I would probably focus on the TCP's here if that's okay not necessarily on the certain members if they agree with me now where do I start everyone is looking down so not to start but I have the impression that when TCP yeah voila I'm happy to start first of all I'm happy I came here and did not participate online great space for communication in the breaks what was really valuable having communication with colleagues of TCP's outside group I would never have been in contact with those colleagues or had those discussions so absolutely valuable having that meeting in person here what could have been shorter to me personally is the exercise we did on communication and all the online selection there so that half an hour would have done okay thanks I suggest we just take the round now from here thanks yeah broadly agree I think that the opportunity to again meet in person with colleagues is always very valuable and is actually one of the key requirements for I think building cross TCP collaboration I likewise felt that the communication session could have been more concise and possibly the feedback could have been more tailored to the particular circumstances of TCP's and their their challenges and identifying their audiences the one thing I would say is that if we want to make the cross TCP collaboration challenge we still need more of a focus on just the mechanics of how that works and thinking that through in detail so thank you yeah I second that this being my first universal TCP meeting and fairly new to being a vice chair as well I think this meeting as well made me much more clever on the part on how this big machine operates so thank you very much for that and really the collaboration is going to be more easy now that you've met face to face so that has great value thank you so on behalf of PVPS I really appreciated these two or maybe three days with the third committee meeting included like what has been said I think when it comes to TCP's collaborating together it's very good from a theoretic point of view but I think what really helps is personal context and I think kudos to the secretary I think that the agenda setting was on one hand very much respected time wise but it also provided for ample coffee breaks and those are very very necessary so that worked very well I noticed some thought on when and for how long to organize the next universal meeting as far as I'm concerned I think it could be next year I'm not sure if it should be two days maybe a day and a half would do as well and thank you for the comments on my right hand side I hope there will be some comments on the left hand side on the communication session that's an ongoing processes looking forward to hearing your comments thank you Hello on behalf of the technology systems TCP I'm glad that I had the chance to attend this meeting I had very fruitful conversations at the coffee breaks and lunch and I also appreciated to see the efforts of the IEA on improving communication with TCP's external and also giving some insights how we can improve our communication externally I think I will bring some good ideas to improve also our strategic plan of communication for the next years thank you thank you I've really enjoyed this last couple of days had some great conversations with people in the breaks as everybody said and I've also learned more about the workings of the IEA which is really useful and really appreciate all the efforts you've put in to organising and running this meeting a highlight for me was the breakout sessions downstairs thought they were really stimulating and I hope you get a TCP going on critical minerals thank you I think these meetings are always very valuable this is my fourth one and it's so much better on-site than online so I hope we can have that in the future and working for the ITS secretariat the communications session was very good for me since I work with communications and got some valuable input to work further yes I can just second that and say that I very much appreciate the opportunity to meet in person I think that that is very valuable and that also gives a dimension of collaboration that we aim for but in a much less informal way I would also second that I think that to meet once a year would be good but then maybe not two full days that would be a little bit too much but I think that to have a frequency because you change people and to continue dialogues I think that yearly would be nice this was my first time attending this meeting so I got a lot about the IEA insert and all the different acronyms we hear and how they relate to each other I think the highlight for me was all the conversations outside and the breakout groups and talking about collaboration across the TCP's on feedback I don't know if it's feasible or not but getting a quick overview like two to three minutes maybe five minutes from each of the TCP's to learn what they've been doing over the last year a couple years that would maybe even help foster even more collaboration by understanding what activities are going on it's not my first universal meeting I was there in 15 not as a chair it was to replace the chair no I think I want to thank you very much for the organization first because the organization was very good and of course like the others the exchange during the coffee break are very important and I think there is more time than last time for the exchange and I appreciate a lot because I have some contact with TCP I didn't know before a lot and the fact that we have some certain delegates is also very important I think to have a dialogue I will be in favor to have a meeting one meeting per year if possible and what else I think it's a very good very good thing and I appreciate a lot this meeting thank you very much and I remember one thing maybe it will be useful to have an explanation for all of us about what's happened in international initiative we need sometimes explanation about because the COP the SEM the MI a lot of things to clarify a little I know but I'm sure that there is some demand for that so maybe where IA is involved or not etc the landscape of international initiative great so thank you for the organization it has been a very good opportunity to meet everyone and it has been a very good exercise and I joined my colleague saying that we should do this yearly and let's wait for the next steps for the 100 TCP coordination group so thank you good afternoon I think this is my second in-person universal TCP meeting and I like this one much better than the previous one I attended so I thank kudos to you for that making it more interesting, more engaging not a one-way street of learning what IA is doing so I really appreciate that providing input to the breakout sessions I look forward to hearing some feedback from what you've heard in breakout sessions I'm not sure how you're going to do that I also agree with Paul in that it would be nice to have a part of the session because IA encouraged us to work with the other multilateral organizations is to have a session that includes them as well thank you I too would second the value of an in-person meeting in that regard I think the scheduling and the timing of this meeting was just about right I've heard some comments about possibly making it only a one-day meeting in the future and I would say that that is difficult for those who are traveling a long distance to justify coming for just a one-day meeting so that's my comment I agree with the previous speakers about the organization the meeting in presence the value of exchanges ideas and the time of coffee break and it's my first meeting and yes I take a lot of IA to make more communication or better communication in TCP and also to have a wider vision of the technology and possible application possible collaboration but also for everyday TCP live and the challenge is to implement all of this with the resources we have in the TCP I want to start with thank you I think I have been in several of these meetings and I think this is the best meeting and I it's because that it has been a balance between breakout session the agenda and also that everyone has said the possibility to make these contacts if I should add something because I think people have said many clever things I think to make it also efficient to continue this building relation after this meeting it would be very helpful for us if you can find the system so we can find the contacts with emails because I think it has been two very good days and very efficient day thank you so from my point of view on the micro scale I had a lot of good contacts during the breaks and the long to do list on the mid scale I think we had very fruitful breakout session and the now come at least when it comes to the collaboration groups and on the micro scale I appreciated the discussion around this big big table to learn about from the other TCP to see their point of view etc and on my wish list this probably for the next time that we learn more about we talked about strategy what is the strategy of the IEA where we stay and especially what is the strategy of SIRT to go to thanks yes from my view the GHE TCP it's been a very useful two days I think two days every couple of years but it gives us opportunity to get together it's particularly useful to get all the TCP's together to have the SIRT gets around the table and strong secretariat engagement makes it really helpful to have more useful discussions around the table the highlight from particularly from this TCP is probably the discussion on the coordination groups and the broader context in which we can operate in the future another first time we're here so thank you so much for the organization of this meeting I'm very happy that I'm also here on site and connecting with other colleagues here I must say that I'm also very pleased that more people know that the Equality TCP exists so we are here and just connect with us anytime we can and we can think about different collaborations I have learned a lot about how the IEA and different TCP's and the whole coordination works but I also really appreciate the presence of SIRT I've had really useful conversations with them during the coffee breaks especially and I think I'm leaving Paris with some really good ideas about further collaborations so I'm really thankful to you all for also being super open about talking about gender issues and what it means to your TCP's I'm also really interested about the collaboration breakout session and look forward to the feedback thank you thank you good afternoon everyone and say thank you to all of you we meet here because I think being person leave us touch us very more friendly we can see commonalities on language on things like humans as we are more than the technical work one suggestion will be maybe as all TCP's come related to innovation and technology maybe we can put a hot topic and see what the different TCP's are working for example in carbon management or one of the suggestions like everybody can talk about what they are doing so like this we start to go inside the different task forces and how we can go align it and there are some administration and management about the TCP's as most of us are the beginners first time as well here but it will be a suggestion as well to how we can build together on the technology pathway and how the technology readiness level are on the TCP's to create projects and collaboration from these type of scenarios and as well good opportunity this morning I have a question about Latin America so for me it was opportunity as well to meet at the coffee break a person who is doing the Latin America a new review that is coming soon this week so we have time to chat with the delegate or the person who is working here about the topic so it's very important to have these type of connections here when we are in the office so happy to be here happy to be part of the international agency the new collaboration programs thank you just three quick reflections for me first it echoes what I have said the in-person meetings are hugely valuable and it's the outside of agenda stuff is where we really realise as you have said in terms of the opportunities it brings the second thing is to congratulate IEA on the evolution of these universal meetings and gatherings they are going from strength to strength and I think what has come across is this additional time for coffee in discussion the coffee is not great but the time is great it's perfect and probably because it's great it's not great it kind of gets more conversation going so it's perfect the breakout sessions were a particular innovation in this one that was very welcome the meeting of certs because the first one we had we didn't have certs I think it was from the second one on and one of them I think we did have the MI and an input from MI and SEM and I think that's a good recommendation to maybe reintroduce that and essentially the final point is just to keep that sense of thinking in terms of innovation obviously not for the sake of it the bits that are working very well keep them but introducing new things I think each time is beneficial and it's good to try these things out, thank you first of all congratulations I know it's not easy to have fruitful meetings with so many people you succeeded so thanks for that it was my first time so I can not compare with the previous one but I really wanted to be here in person and I don't regret it I wanted to meet people of course I had the opportunity to do I even now met the cert delegate from Belgium so I'm very happy for that so now for me it was a quite good also the breakouts that was a nice thing to talk to everyone so thanks good afternoon and thank you very much IA it was really very nice two days I have been in this TCP universal the first one 2015 I think and this is my second time and I can say that it is much much better and it's also so valuable to have the cert delegates but why is it much better I think it's because IA is looking at TCP has evolved during that time very much so and you call it TCP modernization I think and it's modernization and also giving the feeling of working together like being around the table together but also working together like this Fertone TCP coordination groups is something I hope will show that in the future and also the coffee was not great but the cookies were great and the food was great thank you so much first of all I'd like to thank you for great meeting I used the word very balanced which is very very important if you have these great meetings this should be balanced in time that you can talk to colleagues and you also have the breakout rooms which are new methods in order to get people to collaborate so thank you for that one thing though I would suggest it was suggested that we might have only one day meetings I would not suggest this because then the balance would be ruined because everything has to be crammed into to one session and second of all I'm not that positive about having them every year because we are stressed on resources already now and maybe it could be difficult to have it every year in order to obtain new resources and work within the different TCOs but in general thank you very much yeah I'm running out of things to say actually because I agree with the positive sentiments that have been expressed I think it's been a super meeting and thank you very much for it I agree it's been great to have both the CERT members and TCPs here actually any one suggestion I would make I was kind of running under the TCP coordination group positions downstairs so I didn't really get a chance to look at the others so I wonder if we do it again maybe it would be valuable to have a plenary where people sort of report back briefly on what's taking place other than that so all the sessions were really good thank you first of all I would like to thank the organization for the excellent organization for the opportunity to meet in person and this is my first time I am Italian delegate for the combustion TCP just for one year so my feeling is really good and it was a really interesting meeting and in particular I would like to underline the discussion of the possible solutions in order to improve the communication between the TCP CERT and the working parties so thanks again for all okay thanks for organizing the meeting first I enjoyed it very much I would like to second the idea of keeping it a two day meeting those of us who get on a nine hour flight to get here or ten hours it's nice to have a little longer than a day I want to second the idea of getting a global strategic overview from the IEA and your view of how the headwinds and tailwinds are changing and maybe how we couldn't use that view and information to impact our own programs that would be helpful to us I really appreciated as well all of the meeting breaks but it would be helpful to have an introduction like almost a speed dating lightning round one minute per TCP on the first day to say what do you do I had no idea what users did for example what do you do what are your objectives what are some of your key projects and that would be very helpful and it would stimulate the networking so thank you yes I also appreciate very much these meetings for two reasons one thing or one reason is the meeting of people from TCPs chairs and the third members and also IEA I just missed our desk officer there was a change and I missed her there would be nice opportunity to meet her in person and the second reason why I appreciate it was to have this exchange to link to new persons we are new TCPs link to persons on one hand side in the coffee breaks but also in these interactive sections because then he can understand a little bit more what TCPs are thinking which way of thinking is in TCP which culture is in behind and I think that was very impressive and good to learn besides the outcomes of these sessions just one impression maybe I'm allowed to say that because I'm new when there was a process on the formats and improving the formats within the IEA structure I'm somehow wondering why do I do a step back and think about the demand Fatih Birol told about acceleration we need to speed up we have a lot of expertise in this group and my impression was we'll stick a little bit too much maybe on existing formats and to improve existing formats maybe a step back thinking about what are demands to utilize the existing expertise here and then talk about the formats and that would be my impression that would have been helpful for the next time maybe. Thanks and very thanks for organizations very great. Good idea totally agree with you but I'm also from CITIS a brand new TCP what was my first time here in this universal meeting and thank you and I like to talk with almost all of you and to get to know each other and also the breakout sessions I think were very wordful thank you well seconding a lot of the things that were that were said including relation to the quality of the coffee and thanks for a very well organized meeting I think the agenda was well structured and the two days helped with that so compressing any one day maybe wouldn't have allowed for so much interaction also during the breaks I found the discussions during the coordination groups and the brainstorming of the coordination groups very very useful maybe a couple of suggestions would be to not only to allow as was already said each TCP to really forcing them to one slide or maximum to maybe with the help of a graphic designer in that case but also maybe to have your colleagues from the SAM and MI give a presentation on initiatives and campaigns that are of relevance to these topics because there are a lot and there are a lot of overlaps and possible synergies so that would be beautiful and maybe in terms of frequency of these meetings maybe once a year would be too much but I wonder whether there is a chance to use some of the working party meetings that chairs and representatives from the TCPs attend to give presentations maybe a half day back to back those meetings allowing the TCPs or for instance the coordination groups to meet and discuss things and finally a word of appreciation for your effort to kind of streamline a little bit the TCP framework and also to help the TCPs systematize and better disseminate their work because I think again there's a lot of wealth of information that is produced by the TCPs that could be better channeled to the to the higher level so thank you. I'll be quick being from the same TCP so as a vice chair this is a very valuable exercise and it was my second all TCP meeting and would echo what others have said about the interactivity and the program being more useful to myself really good opportunity to get an oversight of what the broader TCP network looks like and how we can improve what we do in our TCP from experiences from others and certainly feel much more better placed to explore inner TCP collaboration moving forward. Yeah also thanks for organizing this fruitful meeting I think the coffee was okay but guys the view is amazing and I'm sorry for you sir delegates because behind you is the Eiffel tower so I don't know if you saw it but yeah the balance of the agenda is I think this is one of the best meeting I've ever been to in the IA so the balance of the agenda between the topics the breakout sessions and the coffee breaks are very useful I never had so many conversations and I did so much networking during the last two days which I couldn't have done in a digital meeting so I'm very so for everyone that is taking part here via Zoom so please consider coming in person next time and I also think that a two-day meeting is necessary one and a half maybe if you want to break it down because if you have a full day meeting I mean we are all not going home the same day so the next day is a travel day so you can also spend a half day here with regard to the introduction of the TCPs I would not suggest to have a one-minute presentation of every TCP because it always takes longer than this and then a half a day is gone and maybe we can share posters on the wall with three main subjects and a picture of the secretariat or the chair that is available during the TCP meeting to give every TCP or every third delegate the opportunity to look at the poster and inform themselves about the TCP you don't have to do this in this broader session I think that's too much time that we're losing so I'm the last one so thank you very much this is my first universal meeting representing the TCP I think that everything I heard all the comments and I agree with everybody so I really appreciate that this was not a passive meeting but a really active so we really were asked to also to think and to discuss also in front of a white wall I think that this is very important I really appreciate that it's very very valid also for us so we can keep this idea I have a comment also for me this is the best meeting because the first one so I can compare next time so I can say that my suggestion is to try to be more flexible within the working party try to analyse really what we are doing if it's really needed if it's something should be updated move from a working party to another one and I think that only I can have this kind of view from high level that we don't have and I think that it's needed in person meeting and also I agree with the comment to have poster of all the TCPs or we can not give the possibility to all the chairs representing because otherwise we can stay here more than one day thank you very much many thanks for all this great feedback and before passing on to Amanda perhaps given the really anonymous positive feedback on the organisation of this meeting that we just thank the team the organising team here Per, Lotte, Anna Charlotte, Mao and Caroline who did put together this together with KC this excellent two days for giving them a hand then back to you Amanda all right so I won't be too long that was a really great idea Teamwork may I say to do the round and hear feedback and not just because it was so positive I'm glad that overall there seems to be consensus that there was value in this meeting and in coming here in person I know it can be a long trip for some of us and it's always nice to know that it's worth it. I think the feedback on the things that worked well has been noted particularly incorporating in the breakout sessions ample time for networking and I think we've also noted here some of the suggestions that you've had for how we can make it even better the next time around so I'm not going to belabor this other than to say we'll talk here with me, with the Secretariat and CERT members around what the next steps are I heard you loud and clear Carol on wanting you know I think it makes sense to provide some sort of readout on what was heard and what is going to be done with that information certainly as we continue along through the next steps of the CERT review it will only work if we have your continued engagement and support and if you continue to provide us with input and feedback because you know what it is that you do you need to help us continue to understand what that is clearly so that we can communicate that up and beyond to support you do your work even better and with even more impact than you do now so thank you all for coming here it's been a pleasure to spend the past couple of days with you the past three days with my remaining CERT colleagues and I echo the thanks to the IEA Secretariat for putting this meeting on so thank you, safe travels home if you need to travel to get there and I look forward to connecting with you all again soon thank you so yeah just before closing just to add my thanks to all of you you know that's okay but Per told me I have to say a couple of things so it's not you know I have this secret chat here that pops up with windows and Timor don't forget to say this and that just to say really big thanks again for all the valuable recommendations you've given us all the useful ideas we got from you also with a view to the IEA ministerial meeting the great discussions we had around the TCP coordination group the engagement that all of you showed I heard of course I would say 80% view that this should be an annual meeting I can't promise this at this point what our intention is is to see how the ministerial meeting goes the energy innovation forum how that goes this is our plan for the next couple of months of course we want to see where the third review lands in March and the next third meeting and then hopefully we can come forward with yeah a great plan on our end we will send a follow-up email with next steps the highlights from the TCP universal meeting the TCP coordination group with information on who are the leads who are the IEA contact points etc and a survey and yeah I hope that this meeting was not only useful for you but also showed that what the ED said the executive director said earlier today is actually really what we all believe that we put a lot of value we place a lot of value in all of you the TCP network to the extent that we give you the prime places and with a view to the Eiffel tower and not our member governments also don't prove on the coffee I'm very sorry for that I went to the coffee bar so anyway see you soon next time I bring coffee for Colombia for everyone