 Welcome to the third Thursday's conversation for January, the first of 2023. Today we are welcoming three guests to talk about the Global Anabaptist Collaborative. David Bushard, Hanuk Makonin, and Joe Sawatsky. Welcome to each of you who've joined us here. If you'd like to use the chat feature to introduce yourself to the others who are here, make sure you write that to all, not just to the panelists so that everyone can see who's joining us today. And if you have questions at any point during the webinar you can use the Q&A function at the bottom of your screen to type those questions in and then I'll be watching for those and add those to the questions that I asked earlier. So we are so glad to have the three of you come today to talk about what AMBS is doing to train leaders around the world. I'd like you to start by introducing yourselves. Normally I have an introduction but instead we're going to just have you say a bit about yourself and your role with AMBS's global leadership initiatives. David, would you start please? Sure. I'm David Bushard, president of AMBS, and I am overseeing the global leadership collaborative. I inherited some of that role from my predecessor Sarah Winger-Shank and so I give overall oversight to the strategy for this program and then work very closely in collaboration with our dean Beverly Lapp and with Joe and Hanuk. I think it's definitely a team effort and a lot of collaboration goes on on campus across departments for this program. Hello, this is Hanuk. I graduated from AMBS and then that's how I start working at AMBS. My role here is global leadership collaborative specialist. Basically, I walk with the student until they graduate. As soon as they enter the cohort program and until they graduate, I'll be with them in answering all kind of questions they might have. And also assisting if the professor is teaching a cohort from AMBS, I will be a teaching assistant for that professor and also be walking with the student as they go through that course. And hello, my name is Joe Sawatsky and I am the project manager for the global leadership collaborative. I'm also a Mennonite Mission Network employee and part of my time is seconded to AMBS to help with global and Baptist education initiatives. I'm also a 2005 MDiv graduate of AMBS, which prepared me to go to South Africa for eight years with Mennonite Mission Network working in theological education there. And out of which grew my own doctoral thesis as well. So I owe a lot of my working life to AMBS and Mennonite Mission. I'm so pleased to be a part of this team. Thanks to each of you. Let's start with the question how did our program in Ethiopia begin. This was kind of the beginning of this big initiative. So I need to back up just a little bit before the Ethiopian program to an innovative degree program that Beverly Lab designed about 2016-17 somewhere in there. That's a bit later than that. Anyway, it was it was an intention to reach students that would not be moving relocating to campus. There are more students to be studying at a distance. And so we designed the Master of Arts and Theology Global Anabaptism as a distance only program. It is AMBS is only distance graduate program. And that program very naturally became unavailable to people studying in all around the world. AMBS regularly fields invitations from international church leaders to consider doing educational programs in other parts of the world. We have alumni around the world who are wanting to stay connected to AMBS. And during the end of about the last six months of Sarah Wenger-Shank's time at AMBS, she began to explore formal partnerships with institutions that we have had historic connections with. The Maserati-Christis Seminary and the Nehemi Institute in Korea. So we began MATCA with the Maserati-Christis Seminary in the fall of 2019. We maybe were offering the MATCA program and wondering if people might just enroll in our MATCA program, but the Seminary in Ethiopia is very interested in developing their own graduate programs. And so it was determined that we would do cohorts of students about 10 a year. And we would do online classes during the year and then in-person, three in-person intensive classes on campus in Ethiopia each summer. Because of COVID, we were not able to do those in-person classes until this last summer. We did three of them last summer and it was an amazing experience for faculty and students both. We all learned so much and were changed by that experience. During our first year of the program in Ethiopia, Hanuk Makonin was a student here at AMBS. And we immediately ran into some issues around technology and expectations and all the kinds of things you run into when you're working cross-culturally, interculturally. And Hanuk jumped in and saved the day in all kinds of ways. And so before long, it was Hanuk's student employment at AMBS to provide instructional support for this program. And then toward the end of his time here at AMBS, we received a letter as did Mission Network from the national leaders of the Maserati-Christis Church saying, we want Hanuk to stay in the states. We want him to stay at AMBS and partner with Mennonite Mission Network to continue to support this program. So with the help of Mennonite Mission Network, who are paying half of Hanuk's salary and we're paying the other half, it's a wonderful collaboration between our organizations. Hanuk is now a permanent part of our staff helping us with this programming. And along the way, as we were developing the global leadership collaborative, I engaged Mennonite Mission Network and we were asking if we could partner with them to invite Joe Sawatsky to be a program manager or project manager for all of the negotiations we have all around the world to help us talk with potential partners and develop MOUs where we want to do educational development. The other important collaboration that emerged in this process was an invitation from Mennonite World Conference to enter into a formal MOU with them as an identified collaborator. Mennonite World Conference identified that on every continent around the world in a research study they did, the most urgent need that was expressed in every region of the conference was the strengthening of an Anabaptist identity for leaders and congregations. And so Mennonite World Conference asked us if we would be a collaborator with them in doing that work. And the benefit for us is that when we are entertaining invitations from potential partners, we're in conversation with Mennonite World Conference to ensure that we are in conversation with the right people, the right national leaders, and so that we're making sure the church is involved in that conversation, not just institutions and that we're not undermining the national church structures. So it's been a wonderful collaboration for us. It keeps us out of trouble, helps us doing the right things. And we're really grateful for that connection to Mennonite World Conference. We are hoping to graduate our first students from the Macca Ethiopia program this spring or summer. We had to slow down the process a little bit because of COVID and that was very frustrating, but we will be seeing our first graduations coming this year and it's very exciting. Anak, what would you like to add to the description of what's happening in Ethiopia? Just how does this work and what are some of the things that you are working with there? Just tell us more about that program. So the way it works is it's, you know, it's two institutions are involved in this, AMBS and MKS Seminary, Maserati Crystal Seminary. So they will send us a list of names, you know, so they do their own registration process, they will advertise and do all kind of stuff. There are things we require for students to have before they join the program. So they will do the, you know, the struggle show up at MKS Seminary and they do interview and check all that aspect that we ask them to do. And then our coordinator from MKS Seminary, his name is Yimanu, he will send us a list of names potential to be in one cohort. So our admission process, admission office will accept the names and that's where I will involve in and I will have like one to one Zoom call with each student just to check if they have, you know, those kind of things that we require just so that they can sustain, you know, this is three years program, and we run one course per semester, and they all put together in one course. And every summer, as David was described, we will send our AMBS box to MKS Seminary, where all students will come also there and be with together for intensive program for about like two or three months. So it's like you need to make sure who are joining the MARCA cohort, you know, because there is a long process in it and there's a frustration. So we require certain staff before we join them so that they consider as a student. So once they join and they took, they start taking courses and I will be there with them. You know, the other thing we need to realize is it's, you know, in Ethiopia, Internet is not realable. It's on and off and power electricity is not stable. So, it's just you have to find a way to work around it. And, and that also requires some kind of resilience. And a student need to have that, you know, you know, muscle to wrestle with us. But besides, I mean, more than that, I mean, like I one of the top, the challenge that I was, when I heard about this initiative when I've been invited and talked about this is like, Oh, yeah, I know. You know, in Ethiopia, there's all kind of, you know, this internet and electricity. You know, our students are living around, you know, different parts of Ethiopia, they're not in one place. So we rely on each student having their own computer, you know, having that some of them, you know, might not have the new computer and it's, you know, there's all kind of frustration that goes with that. But, you know, as you go through it and work with the student individually, that's one of my time is working with student individually and make sure that the internet like their computer is working. And they are, you know, doing what they're supposed to do within that week. So every two weeks, we ask them to join us by zoom, so that that will be a time for, you know, the instructor to, you know, open up for a question if there is any question that within the student and the thing that we have done the past two weeks. And as you go through that, you know, you will, you will have a lot of questions and problems, and that will help you to clarify and, you know, like that resolve that, and that that's how it moves the program. But the cohort program having them together helps not only the help that we give from here in BS, but also amongst others that sense of community. So, you know, sometimes they reach out to me, if whatever reason I'm busy, they call to each other and somehow whatever question they have, they will be sold there. And it's really, it's a brilliant idea to have this cohort program, so that it creates, you know, this is going to be like a group of people being together for three years until they graduate. So, yeah, I think that's pretty much what I'm going to add on to what David was just explained. And sorry, Dave and Joe, do you want to add anything to that and and maybe, maybe say a bit about how this is funded and and how what what you've seen working there. Okay. I would say that this partnership is really important, because it provides us an opportunity to accompany the seminary in Ethiopia as they are developing their capacity for their own graduate programs so MKS is actually rolling out their first master's programs this fall and we're celebrating that because you feel like we were a part of helping them providing support for them to to start doing this. Students for our program are chosen, I think we have a different kind of student in mind for our program than the graduate programs that are happening on campus I think more of the graduate programs are happening on campus will be for persons who are coming out of the undergraduate program and ready to move into a graduate program. The notion is that most of our students in the cohorts for the masters of arts and theology global and baptism are more seasoned leaders. When I was teaching there the summer I realized you know these are most of the people in the class not all of them but most of the class are 10 1520 year veterans and leadership. One of the important things our program is providing is in a church that is growing way faster than the National Church can manage in terms of leadership development. We're working with a lot of seasoned leaders who I think are well positioned or already positioned to be regional leaders who can be strengthening that an abaptist identity of other pastors that they're working with in the local congregations in their region. But we're trying to strengthen that an abaptist theology and identity for leaders who are really well positioned to help with the work of strengthening that identity in in the local congregation. How do we pay for all this has an important question. We negotiated the arrangement. We realized a couple of things one, it's very difficult for students to afford tuition. And most of them can afford to pay very little in the way of tuition. And secondly, it is very difficult to transfer American dollars from Ethiopia to the US. So in this agreement students pay a very small tuition and we're leaving that money with Maserati Christa Seminary again as a part of helping Maserati Christa Seminary to build their capacity for their own graduate programs. So our costs are all contribute contribution based. We are we are reliant on contributions in our constituency and the church to help us carry off this program and we're finding there's tremendous support for for doing this work. And I'm really grateful for that. I would also say that just lost that thought. I could add that Hennock talked a lot about how he works with students he also works with professors very well to help us. I've helped teaching the program to and help me know what to do. He developed a tip sheet of best practices and provides counsel to us and also motivates students I think and follows up with them and helps interpret us professors to students. I really want to re reaffirm what you're saying Joe and we would want to be doing these classes without Hennock, who also helps us think pedagogically about the context helps us think about source material that we're bringing to the to the context that is to these classes is contextually appropriate. We talk all the time here at MBS about how we decolonize the classroom. And you know Ethiopia is a country that has never been colonized. So we don't want to start colonizing the classroom. We're trying to be very careful and thinking pedagogically about what is the most contextually appropriate methods for teaching and source material that we're bringing to the to these classes. I think another thing that's really important in this program is the opportunity and BS has to experience the church where it is growing in ways that again outstrips the capacity to train leaders, where we are sitting in a context where the churches is in some ways disintegrating or declining. And so it gives us a wonderful opportunity to ask questions about the nature of Anabaptist leadership in these two very different experiences of the church and to say, What is effective Anabaptist leadership look like, and using the global context as a way to think about that. We're learning every bit as much as our students are learning in these cohorts. And I think we'll come back to that very question again after we hear about all the other initiatives. Any more thoughts on Ethiopia from any of you. All right. Well we can add them later if you think of something else we should include. Sure. There was an educational event for church leaders in Indonesia. What can you tell us about how that came together and what happened in that event. One of our agency partners in Indonesia came to AMBS wanting to make connections on behalf of Indonesian institutions and Indonesian Mennonite synods about partnering with North American Anabaptist educational institutions to make Anabaptist education more accessible to Indonesian leaders. And also leading up to Mennonite World Conference Assembly which was just in Indonesia. We brainstormed having a educational event for pastors from all of the Indonesian synods in conjunction with the assembly. And that the assembly was a bit up in the air due to COVID. We decided to launch out with a webinar that we held about a year ago at this time in January of 2022. We worked with Andeos Santoso who is a recent AMBS grad and Indonesian church leader. And now is also the Asia director for Mennonite Mission Network. And Andeos and I and Jewel Gennrich Langnecker and Dave and Bev and others sort of brainstormed this webinar. Each day, webinar two hours each day, 7am Eastern time in the US, 7pm Indonesian time, and two hours each day. We organized it kind of along the lines of AMBS's departmental structure we had a introduction to peace study through a biblical focus introduction to peace studies through an Anabaptist history theological focus today. We chose a practical ministry dimension or something from the broadly church and ministry kind of department and that was on Christian Muslim relations which of course is something that Indonesians. It's part of their daily reality, but we have so we had each day we had an AMBS faculty paired with an Indonesian church leader or scholar to provide input on those topics. And then we had time for questions from the participants in the second hour. And there were 75 to 100 participants each day from all of the Anabaptist Mennonite synods. There are three in Indonesia. And Andeos was our moderator for that, or MC for that event, which was partner, a partnership between AMBS, the Indonesian synods and Mennonite Mission Network. I think this was a really unusual event Joe and that that it was an occasion for all three synods in Indonesia to come together. It was a sort of a rare experience so we were really excited to see that happening was also the first time we were working I think on an educational program with simultaneous translation, where if you were an English speaker you were hearing as English as the Indonesian was speaking and if you're Indonesian you were hearing only Indonesian as the English speaker was speaking and it was happening to simultaneous and that's hard. That is really hard work, but it was it was really helpful in making an efficient lecture time. And then I'll pass off also to Chi Alice who married to Andeos and is a current MA student at AMBS who was translation translating for us in that event so a lot of the energy about what we're doing I think is fueled by alumni and current students who want to take what they're learning AMBS to benefit the leaders in their own countries as well. Thank you. And this fall there was a pilot program in South Korea. I'm wondering what you'd like to tell us about that. Before Sarah Wingershank retired. Hugh and her, some of you would know his wife Sue Parker who is who works for Mennonite Church USA Executive Board. Hugh and her and Sue have a nonprofit organization called reconciliation in Southern California, and he was happens to be on our board. To introduce Sarah took Sarah and Gerald on a trip to South Korea to introduce them to not only the Mennonite Church of South Korea but the Nehemiah Institute which is a non accredited seminary that has a number of faculty who are are anti Baptist adjacent maybe many of them trained in the West who are exposed to Mennonite scholars and the Mennonite Church of South Korea also influenced strongly by the writings of Alan Crider. And so there's a great affinity growing there and an alternative to sort of the dominant Christian perspectives there younger people who want a peace witness in their country who dream of a day for the reunification of North and South Korea. So Sarah and Gerald went there shortly before she retired. There really wasn't time to explore further on what could happen there. COVID happened and so it wasn't until last April that we were able to make another trip and with new new people involved like me and Joe and James Crabill we made a trip to visit and really explore this possibility. I often say about the global leadership collaborative I when I'm talking to faculty or trying to get their heads around how to teach in these contexts I said what we're doing is really hard. We just want to recognize that this is really hard. And one of our professors Jamie Pitts. When I said that Tim one time said yes it's hard. And it's terrifying. And it's really fun. And, and I said then back to my said and you know what it's all three of those all the time. And you just feel it you feel like you're dancing on the edge of it on a tightrope and, and you're wondering when you're going to fall off it and yet engagement with these students and faculty is just so rewarding. So energizing and so much fun. So you can imagine doing matka in in Korea is going to be even harder at harder in different ways than it is Ethiopia because we are going to have to do translation we're fortunate and we can offer the matka program in Ethiopian English. But in Korea we have to do everything by way of translation. So this fall, we said let's just do a pilot course. We offered it to students for free. He taught the course he started out online. He went for an intensive week in person, and then finished online. And it was a very powerful experience students. After the intensive class the students started meeting every Tuesday night as a study group so that the community among those students really started to emerge. The administrator of the school was attending the classes for the intensive week. And on the last day of the intensive week James had students share, sort of reflect on what they were their biggest takeaways were for the week. And to the students in their presentations just broke down and wept, because the class was. God's Shalom and the church's witness so a lot of focus and reconciliation, and to the students were just moved by a new vision for how reconciliation could happen in context they were relating to my own family and school professional educational role that person was having The administrator of the school that day on the last day of the class actually asked if he could enroll in the class for credit, because he said I have never seen students in this institution express emotion over over what they were learning and he said I need to understand what's going on here, because the administrative school actually enrolled in the class well when you have that kind of outcome. It's hard to say, oh no we're not going to do this program. So we are now offering the second course this semester. Again, it's the students are still guest students, but it is being taught by one of the faculty at the Nehemi Institute, who has spent a lot of time and spent a lot of time on this theology and church history. And so he's teaching a course this semester and we're hoping that in April May we'll start our leap program which is our orientation class and and launch the full masters program there. Hard, terrifying, and really fun. Anyone else want to speak to the Korean initiative. And the professor that Dave spoke about who's teaching right now his name is duck Monday, and he is teaching history of Christianity in Asia. For students enrolled in the Korea matka program, and that's the design of the program is that some courses will be taught by ambs professors and others will be taught by me and my faculty who are accredited by ambs to teach in our curriculum so he's teaching that course right now. And also we're hoping to bring him to campus and help card in April, so that he can maybe do some preaching and teaching here while he's in the States. I want to say a little bit about that hard, you know, terrifying and also fun part. It's really nice. It's a good mindset up that that that that kind of because each professor here at MBS. They know the subject matter they know what they're talking about, but still, even though you know everything within that subject matter, knowing that well how you need to deliver that in that context in there. It will get context in South Korea in Indonesia, that sensitivity is really, really, really good. And that's one of I think one of the things that makes me like proud working at MBS is that, you know, they know about this subject matter, you know, you know, they have read all kind of stuff they need to be read and they figure everything out. It's just that not enough and how this will work there is still terrifies them and terrifies people here at MBS, which is good. I like that. And, and this is what makes you to partner with the local people there, work with them, you know, to acknowledge the knowledge there, and how okay I have this, you have that wisdom, how you and me can collaborate and do this together. But then I have all this, I need to tell you and I will just dump on you without even that sensitivity. So I, in a way, makes me happy to hear this part terrifying and also fun part. It kind of shows your, your position, your mindset and even though you know what you're talking about is still, still, that's you know, makes you uncomfortable how you can deliver it in that context. Thank you for saying that Hennick, I, if I could just add a short story really quickly here. I think that teaching in this program is bringing a new level of humility to our faculty, not that they're not humble, but it brings it brings you as you approach these classes. It increases your humility and if it doesn't teaching in these experiences will humble you. So better to approach it from humility and being humble than letting it humble or humiliate you maybe even. But one of the, I had the wonderful experience of teaching leadership for the 21st century this summer to a group of 26 students and it was amazing time together. When I came in, I think appropriately humble and was like being very cautious about what I was sharing and I was always qualifying what I was saying and I, you know, I don't know the context here and I don't, you know, a lot of some of these thoughts about leadership are Western in my side. And on the, on about the third morning, one of the elder statesman students in the classroom pray okay and to me and he said, he said David we, we are really enjoying this class we really appreciate what you're bringing. And you are very sensitive to our context and we really appreciate that so all these platitudes right then he says, but, but the way you're talking and it gives us the feeling that you're holding back. And so we're wondering, could you trust us to sort out what's relevant here and what isn't and just go ahead and teach. And that was such a gift for the students to come to and engage me that way. And so I just let it go. And, and the engagement in the class went immediately to a whole another level. And students were free to say, you know, yep, love that idea I haven't thought of that before. Oh that idea won't work here and here's why. And then I was learning in the in the position of learning about what works here and what doesn't. It became a whole new dynamic. So part of it is like, we don't decide on our side, what's appropriate to bring to this classroom, and we need a really dynamic partnership with students to, to get to that place where we can sort of be free and and trust that our students will be ready to be willing to challenge or to push back or to say yes and. And that's been a really a significant learning for me, part of the journey of getting through the hard, terrifying and fun. And when you get to fun it's really fun. This is just so fascinating and, and we have some more questions to ask about overall, but before we do that. So if someone can just name some of the other things that are happening and being explored outside of the three countries we've identified so far. And I know Dave Miller is one of the participants in the webinar today and, and he could probably share many, many stories as well. But if someone would just kind of outline the other places where we're doing some work in this collaborative. So part of my role is to make connections for degree program as well as for non degree program and also things like webinars that we've already mentioned. And yes, he mentioned David Miller David just returned from Kenya, he was in Kenya during December teaching at the Mennonite and about this theological college in McGory. He grew out of a conversation that Dave and I and Patrick O'Bonday a recent AMBS grad had we're having about increasing Anabaptist theological education possibilities for for Kenya and East Africa. And, and Patrick's on to Patrick's on to all right. Yeah, and so Dave finally. David Miller was finally able to go at the end of last year and teach themes in the journey curriculum not the full journey curriculum, but kind of giving an entree into AMBS education. That college has their own curriculum as well. But they're interested in AMBS partnering with them. So this was kind of an exploratory visit and a chance to do some teaching and relationship building. And it was much appreciated by David and by his and by Zedekaya Lunga, who wrote to us to say how what a great time they had together. So that's one. Another one that I'll just quickly mention is that building on kind of the webinar template. Right after Thanksgiving. We did a webinar for church leaders in India that we planned with midnight Christian service and fellowship of India, which is the umbrella body for men nights in India. They requested a webinar on baptism. So we had two days baptism biblical and historical theological perspectives, again with input from AMBS professors and Indian leaders responding to the presentations in this case and then open time for q amp a. And again, that initiative was also brought to us by AMBS alums or current students Elizabeth kunjom and Prateek Bach. So, alumni again are a big part of driving or igniting what we're doing. Another one we might mention Joe that that is also connection in connection to one of our alums is David Miller's teaching of the journey program in Thailand for leader among leaders in Laos and Vietnam, and working alongside Jonah Yang one of our graduates. It's also very successful experience. Excellent. Yes, and I heard that David even has a baby named after him now. It's very cool. One of the participants in his most recent class teaching. Okay, we have a question that has come in from Benjamin Isaac Krause, who says it sounds like technology is a big obstacle, and he understood that to be true in his time at AMBS as well. Have you thought about fundraising specifically to give students adequate devices so that they are able to do what they need. Who would like to answer that. Thanks, Benny for that question. And if you want to take a stab at it or I kind of what do you prefer. I mean, I like this idea of fundraising. I can't wait to see a lot of computer going to, you know, to our student and the student having that, you know, access. But this, this another, you know, another thing that makes me humble and likes AMBS much is, you know, there's this discussion I think maybe Joe and David might say a little bit more that what, what, what does that mean if we send a computer. What, what kind of what what makes sense, you know, and I was like, you know, for me, like, I don't care, I just want the student to have access to it. I just want the student to have this really working computer with them. And so that they can access the computer, the resource that we're providing the motorcycle. But still there's this ongoing discussion, you know, at AMBS that, okay, you know, to try to make sure that we are not giving some kind of signal, you know, that we are, you know, we have all this resource among us, you know, so that we can just channel it on that. But like, still, there are times I was even taking like, you know what, I can do it by myself, I can just send a letter to people that I know, and no fundraise the money and send the computer to to Ethiopians. And especially the students who are working, you know, the in the out every day and some of the questions that come from a student, and why they are, you know, sometimes they get behind it because of a computer problem. And so I, I think I really appreciate this question and if you have any idea, please reach out to me by email. I like this question very much. I think technology is a huge question for us. And we're constantly working on what it means to purpose to work in these contexts and have adequate technology resources. I think I think it's something you're getting at hammock is, and part of our conversation is, how do we work at providing equipment in a way that has equity to it so some students can afford computers some can't. So that's providing computers to some and not others what happens then. On the other hand, we also be as we especially as we're doing in person teaching, we're finding out that we have students who we've said you need a computer to do this program and we find out that they're actually doing their courses on large cell phones or readers, and they aren't they aren't able to have a computer. The other issue is, what do we do about places where like we've been exploring the matka program for Ghana. And we have big questions about whether the country's infrastructure can even support the program and you know we start no amount of fundraising on our end is going to be able to solve that problem if the country's infrastructure isn't there. On the other hand, what I learned in Ethiopia and we came up with a pretty significant adaptation. When electricity goes down therefore internet goes down cellular service is much more constant. And so we found that we could buy cellular based hotspots with fairly affordable data plans. And that when the electricity goes off, as long as the computer batteries charged, you can stay connected to a hotspot and keep on motoring on with your, with your coursework and engagement online. And that would that seem like a really significant discovery. And I think we could do more, more to proliferate hotspots for people where internet connectivity is is inconsistent and electricity goes out. We are, we are constantly working on this. I mean another question that that our IT department really, you know, rightfully raises is when we start sending computers overseas, who services that computer. And in some cases there will be an adequate it support in the context in other cases there wouldn't be. And if all of that it support comes back to ambs that that can be a really significant load on on our it capacity here. So we're very much in the process of learning and evolving. I think we're doing better and we're making discoveries, but there's some questions we have not answered yet. I've gotten good answers for you. Okay, we have two more questions that have come in and then we'll have to end our time today. But now Serato says I see that only men have been sent abroad. Is that a male teacher or to represent ambs and is that due to cultural matters, and just wondering if, if other cultures prefer to have male teachers or not. I think that's a great question now and thank you. Well, we actually send a female instructor to Indonesia to the GITJ. That's the oldest men and I send it in Indonesia to their Bible College Slemp Seminary Jacqueline Hoover who's a core adjunct faculty member at MBS went for a two week period at the end of October to teach on Islamology which is her expertise and Christian Muslim relations. And she taught those two courses in their, the school's curriculum and then did a public lecture that was attended by more than 200 leaders men and women on women preaching the gospel and men and I perspective. And we had a zoom follow up call the other week with the leaders of the seminary and the leaders who were a part of that experience and it was obvious that they found it so inspiring to see Jacqueline, her passion and her expertise. They took a lot of encouragement from from her presence with them. So, I didn't get a chance to mention that but that was on my list. So that's great to know. We will certainly send female teachers. It's it's only been based on content. Relative to the program, why it's been only men and certainly at Miserita Chris's Seminary. There are female professors and lectures there. So this would not be an issue. In that program at war Korea, for sure. I would like us to close with a wonderful question from Randy debt while he asked, what are we learning that will encourage or strengthen the church in our North American context. Thank you Randy for that question. I feel like I've done a lot of talking Joe or how do I go first, I have some things I could say but Well, this comes more out of an experience I had last semester leading witness colloquium at AMBS where were there were four students from Africa in the core or three from Africa in the course to from Miserita Christos Church, and we students did presentations on what a peace witness looks like in their context and I was struck again by how central evangelism is in their understanding of what leads to peace. So that sense of one's personal connection to to God as being a source of peace that sustains you in the work of peace between humans, or between nations or between communities. So that kind of that emphasis there on evangelism and on like the vertical connection to God being important in the work also of the horizontal dimension, I think is something that the global church helps to magnify it for us in North America. I think this is, I feel like this is the question is more for Joe and David will stay here and knows about us culture more than I do. But what I can say is, you know, collaboration like this, you know, you, you are continuously engaged with people around the world and then there's exposure that relationship ongoing relationship. This is your project for this gift sharing, you know, sharing, you know, what works there what works here. So in a way that it changed you, it changed your perspective by the way you see things. So, I like this in Ethiopia, there's this saying that you don't go just for business, you have to have like all kind of meal, you know, all you need to have that built up the relationship built up before you do the business. You can just dump on the business and do the, let's do this thing kind of thing. So I think that's what I see here in this collaboration, seeing you know people over here with, you know, the local leaders back home in Ethiopia and Indonesia, South Korea, being friend, you know, continuously engaging with questions in, you know, but then having this interaction kind of helps you, you know, to share and to see, you know, how things work here how things work that, and through that process kind of changed you. I think that's, I've seen that a lot. That's only, I think I can say, but that relationship, you know, continue to be engaging in the conversation kind of helps you to be, you know, table continuously and have some kind of perspective on things. I think you're absolutely right, Henna, nobody, nobody participating in this program leaves it the same. It is transformational. I also think that we're not just doing academic institution at the academic institution work we are doing it with the church. And that is keeping us that is keeping our work in education really grounded in the church in the global context. It's very clear to us when we're in these doing this kind of program and BS may have a very long, deep tradition of theological education but the center of an abaptist identity is no longer in the west. And there is a great deal that we need to learn about what effective and abaptist leadership means in other contexts and how we can think about the blind spots we have in North America around what might lead us to greater levels of faithfulness and effectiveness and leadership. I also think that we want to make sure that in our work we're trying to represent a majority report on what it means to be an abaptist and carry out that witness in the world. So, I think there's just countless ways that this engagement is energizing we certainly don't want to be opportunistic about this, like, you know, using our opportunity to be in other countries to make many church USA or Canada stronger. But it's certainly as a transformational effect it also highlights for us that the the issues that we find most challenging in our church context that those issues become relativized when we realize what the significant issues are that other churches are facing for example in Ethiopia when we're engaging students who are asking questions about is peace witness realistic in a context of civil war where my family is living facing danger. That says something to us about our questions that we think are breaking up our church or or challenging us most because it isn't just one question it's many questions that are challenging the church and what it means to be faithful. Because we're engaged in the, in the global church in this way. Well thanks to each of you, Dave Joe Hennock for answering all these questions and giving us a glimpse into all of the wonderful things that are happening around the world. I want to thank also our alumni for your ongoing support of ambias. We really appreciate your financial support your prayers, and the prospective students you encouraged to consider studies at ambias. Let us know if we can help you do any of those things. Next month we will not have a third Thursday conversation because it falls during our pastors and leaders event. So we invite you to join that event if you haven't already signed up there's still a little bit of time to do that. And ask you to join us again March 16 when I talked to Melinda Barry associate professor of theology and ethics. Thanks to all of you for joining us this afternoon and thanks also to student Janet McGeary, who provided technical support for this webinar. This concludes today's third Thursday's conversation. Have a great day.