 I'm vice president for strategic planning here at CSIS, and I'm co-directing our project on U.S. leadership and development and looking at ways that new and emerging actors on the development scene, especially private companies and NGOs and emerging economies are shaping the world of development far beyond what we do in terms of bilateral and multilateral assistance. This is part of our Chevron Forum on Development. We're supported generously by Chevron and we're really pleased to have you all here and hope that we will engage in a dialogue because there is a lot to talk about with our current example. So I'm delighted to welcome Sue Clark. Sue is the Corporate Affairs Director for SAB Miller. She has a very large portfolio. She manages investor relations, media relations, sustainable development, industry affairs and corporate communications. She's fresh off, you may have heard that Foster's is now part of SAB Miller's brand list. SAB Miller is a company that has a number of brands that you're going to be familiar with, but you maybe didn't realize they're all kind of bundled up under the same masthead. Peroni, Pilsner, Kell, Blue Moon, Miller of course, and now Foster's. So they've got a broad range of activities and operations and have engaged very deeply in the economies where they're working. I think a lot of you will be interested in one of the particular areas that we're going to talk about today, which is SAB Miller's manufacturing facility or processing facility in Juba in South Sudan. But today we're going to kind of cover the breadth of operations and activities that SAB Miller does give Sue a chance to tell you a little bit about their various approaches and then focus in on a couple specific pieces. We're going to start talking about some of the enterprise development efforts, which are very, very deep down to smallholder farmers and local purchasing. We want to talk some about South Sudan, of course, and then also talk about some health work, preventative and awareness work that the company is doing. So with that, Sue, thank you for joining us and taking the time with us today. I want to start by just asking you a little bit about SAB Miller. If you can tell us about the company, because you're a company founded in South Africa based today in London, you've done really remarkable things in development and local sourcing. So I'd like to ask you if you could start by telling us about the company and tell us about your approach to developing communities. Okay, thank you, and it's great to be here. As you said, SAB Miller is one of the largest global brewing companies. Our operation spans 75 countries across six continents. And as you mentioned, we are big here in the States. We bought the Miller business back in 2002, and that's now merged with the Coors business. So we've got some 60% of that joint business Miller Coors. But the majority of our businesses and our profits come from countries in the emerging or developing markets. So we are number one in China. We have 25% of the Chinese beer market. We're number two in India, number two in Latin America. And we have very strong positions in Eastern Europe. But of course, I think what we are famous for is our African background. As you mentioned, we came out of South Africa. We now have operations either directly or with our partners in 35 African countries. And the African businesses together account for about a third of our overall business profits. I mean, we are a really good example of what a great base to do business Africa is. Over the last 10 years, our profits have grown on average over 10% per annum each year. So I mean, there's very few other places in the world I think where you could get that. I mean, just before I talk about our approach around development and building economic growth, I just want to say one thing about alcohol. We are an alcohol company, and we are concerned about the people who abuse our products. We do know that it does cause harm when abused to the individuals and to people around them. And we do see it as part of our responsibility, along with a whole bunch of other societal actors, to tackle some of that alcohol abuse. And I'm happy to talk later about some of our programs that we have to do that. But I think one of the things that it is worth pointing out is that in Africa, a lot of that alcohol abuse comes from illicit homebrewed alcohol. And you'll see, I think as I go through and talk about what we're doing, is we're actually trying to move people away from that illicit homebrew and into regulated quality beers that are brewed according to standards and sold in regulated environments. So that said, how do we think about the way we do business? Well, we believe deeply that a business like brewing is a local business and that we only thrive if those local communities in which we work are healthy and are thriving as well. And so we look at our business along all of the components of the value chain and we say how can we ensure that we're maximising and localising each of those components from the very start of our raw materials all the way through to how our beers are sold. And so at the sort of beginning of that chain, the whole piece around where we access our raw materials, traditionally these came from overseas, we imported into Africa, we're now increasingly moving towards sourcing locally those agricultural raw materials and we can talk about that maybe in a moment. And then moving up the value chain, it's how can we stimulate local distribution through financing small businesses, small distributors to take our products out and about, and then how can we develop the retail sector again, a lot of it through financing, through business development, through partnering. There's a couple of other things I just wanted to say about our approach to business. I mean, I think we very much try and apply international standards as we move around the world. So it comes to things like environment, we aspire to ensure that we have the same standards wherever we are, things like water usage and things like effluent treatment and the way that we treat our employees. And I think the third thing is we do try and foster good governance as well and we think that businesses like ourselves have a particular role to play there, both within our supply chain and also the broader business environment. Well, tell us if you would about some of the work that you have done specifically on local sourcing and supply chains. You have made big investments in a number of countries to develop new strains of crops to look for new places to grow crops so that you're not quite so vulnerable to help farmers to grow crops better and provide them to you. And I'd like if you could sort of dig in and talk about a couple of those examples of how you've worked with farmers, how you've managed to improve quality and quantity for your supply chains and just give us a little more depth on that if you would. Yeah, sure. I mean, I'd like to do that. I mean, essentially the raw material for brewing, for brewing beers is starch. And so, you know, traditionally, as I mentioned, we imported barley from Europe, mainly Australia, some American barley into Africa. And it is simplest. We're looking at how we can replace that barley by growing locally and we've made some good progress there. But over the last few years, we really saw an opportunity to take indigenous starch crops like cassava and like sorghum and look at how we could use those to produce the sorts of clear beers that we were producing with barley. And I think probably the first example was in Uganda where we worked with the local agricultural institute to develop a strain of sorghum that we could use to brew a clear beer. Sorghum traditionally used to produce a sort of an opaque beer called Chibuku. We also worked with government around, you know, the opportunity to bring in a whole series of subsistence farmers into the commercial space. And in recognition of that, the Ugandan government gave us a small tax break which meant that the overall cost of the beer could be lower. And we worked with a number of NGOs. The result of all of that was that we actually produced a beer called Eagle Lager which today actually accounts for 30% of our market share in Uganda. It has raised the amount of money that the government are getting from excise because of course it has moved people out of the illicit sector into the formal sector. It's enhanced public health. But most importantly we now have 8,000 farmers in our supply chain who are actually receiving an income rather than being subsistent farmers. And we've got a whole series of kind of case studies and stories about how they're now using that money to send children to school to buy bicycles to diversify into other businesses. And I think it's probably just worth sort of mentioning that when we do this, we do partner with other NGOs to provide extension services to farmers. We do find that we offer agreed prices and we undertake up front to determine the quantities that we will take. And we've also worked with various financing institutions where there's a need for financing to be part of, to offer that. So it was pretty hard yards to start with and one of the things we've learnt is that actually it takes a while to build up trust. In those first years in Uganda, we didn't actually get all of the sorghum we needed because a lot of the farmers weren't sure about this multinational company and what were they doing. And so it took a couple of seasons for us to build up. We then had another big learning. We actually got too much sorghum. And so what do you do in that situation? How do you kind of unwind that when you've made commitments to farmers and so we've had to get a bit smarter around that. What were some of the approaches you took? Well I think one of the key things is getting the right NGO to work with and getting those dialogues and those channels going. And I think partnerships are very much at the heart of this. That Eagle example is now throughout our portfolio in Africa and it's our second biggest regional seller in the African continent. We're very excited because we're just about to launch in the coming few weeks another new product called Impala which I'm not sure whether I should have told you but anyway that's its name. And we're launching that in Mozambique and that's using cassava which again is an indigenous starch crop and we are hoping that we can have very similar kind of results in terms of bringing these small subsistence farmers into the commercial sphere. And can I ask what's the taste difference among cassava beer and sorghum beer and barley beer? Well you have to be a connoisseur but I think there are taste differences. They occupy different positions in the portfolio. They're at different price points but I think the thing is that we're offering a quality product that is aspirational for people and is something that consumers want to drink. That's so interesting. I wanted to ask a little bit more. You all have been leaders in the southern growth corridor in Tanzania. I wanted to ask a little bit about what you're doing specifically in Tanzania along that corridor and what you see shaping up there. It's an area that Feed the Future and AID have put a lot of emphasis on. It's getting a lot of attention and it'd be interesting to hear what you're seeing from your perspective. Yeah I mean we very much think that the great corridor concept is a great concept because it brings together the kind of infrastructure, the hard infrastructure that we very much need in terms of roads and irrigation etc. And I think we believe that the private sector has a role to play in the last mile infrastructure but the broader, the bigger pieces then we definitely need governments to come to the party there. And so we think that Tanzania is a good example of how that's happening. We sort of think of it a bit like a hub and spoke model that if you can get that infrastructure in place then you can kind of come off of that with the sort of spokes in terms of developing bigger commercial agriculture and then around that smaller subsistence farmers as well. So we think taking together that sort of model is hugely effective. I think it's still in its early days in Tanzania but one of the things I would say is I think the government has really backed it. The president has really put his stamp behind it and that has kind of made a big difference. So that's had a big impact. Just broadening out from Africa, when we talked earlier you said that Columbia is your largest market for beer which I was very surprised by but I mentioned to you that it just reinforces what we've heard a lot over the past year in our conversations that a lot of companies are approaching the countries beyond the US and Europe and Japan because this is where they're seeing so much growth especially with small consumables that people can afford to buy and fairly regular basis. I know you all see these countries really as the growth for the company and you mentioned Africa as a strong tale but can you talk a little bit about how you're seeing the growth worldwide and why investing in these communities has been so important to you? Well, I think you very much hit the nail on the head there is that the growth opportunity is in the emerging markets. In China, as I mentioned earlier we've got just over a 20% market share there which we've grown up since the early 1990s in partnership with a local partner and I think there we took very much an approach which was to start in the rural areas and then kind of work in towards the cities. It is our biggest market. I have to correct you, Colombia is one of our most profitable markets. China is, whilst it accounts for a huge amount of our global volume it doesn't account for a huge amount of our profits yet but we are hopeful that that position will change in time but a huge growth there. I mean India, as I mentioned earlier, we have a position there. Growth is there while the economy is growing quickly India has a more difficult relationship with alcohol so our beer sales there are sort of growing solidly but Latin America we entered there in 2005 through an acquisition, the Bavaria acquisition and again we see those markets growing very, very quickly. Well, let's just talk about a specific example I think a lot of people here are interested in hearing about your work in southern Sudan if you could tell us about what you're doing and kind of how you ended up making the investments that you have made what the process was that you went through in order to get land titling and intellectual property rights settled as well as just what it took to get employees and distribution networks in sort of the newest country in the world. Well I mean we saw Sudan as actually a great opportunity I mean there's 8 million people in southern Sudan an economy that's underpinned by oil and actually we could see that there were demands for our products because they were being sucked in from Uganda as imports into southern Sudan. So in 2008, 2009 we began to look at how we could enter the market and of course there were challenges initially one of the biggest issues was trying to find land and property and work out how property title worked who owned the property and that took an enormous amount of legwork on the ground working with the putative government and the communities and we actually put together I think quite an innovative package which means that the communities where we built the brewery actually get royalties. Now I think that situation has changed quite a bit since we first went in there and I think there is now a property land bank established. I guess the other big challenge was the whole piece around the way that legislation and regulation was very much in its early days and business registration southern Sudan, central bank wasn't set up so there were lots of kind of issues there that we had to work our way round. Now not unfamiliar to us because some of the other African countries we've been into before had had very similar issues and we did have some expertise that we could help the government with in particular areas. I guess the other things were the usual challenges that come from going into post-conflict markets just the whole infrastructure piece. You have to be 100% self-sufficient so power, water you have to put in for yourselves, effluent treatment and obviously be cognisant to the fact that roads and basic infrastructure like that is very difficult but we have resolved those issues We invested initially 35 million in a brewery and soft drinks facility that was up and running last year and is now at capacity already and we're investing another 15 million to take the size of the brewery up. We employ 200 Sudanese people in the brewery and that's always quite difficult when you're in a post-conflict society kind of working with people who've maybe not worked in a formal environment before also the whole training piece that goes with that can be quite intense. And we've also started to develop the local sourcing piece. We were the recipient of some grant money from the Africa Enterprise Challenge Fund which is a DFID fund. We've received almost $900,000 there and we're working with an NGO called Farm Africa to develop a cassava supply chain with local farmers. But about 2,000 farmers now signed up. We're hoping the first harvest will come through next year and we'll be able to use that cassava to produce beer. And we genuinely feel that that will actually stimulate broader economic development. I think the multiplier effect we think should actually underpin about 15,000 people as part of that. And then the other piece that we're doing is we're actually using our facilities to purify water, to provide water to the local communities currently providing water for about 7,500 people in and around the brewery and at the local university and over the next year we're looking to double that and hoping to kind of provide water to the UN compound there and various communities on the way. So an exciting market, a market with I think lots of potential and one where we've had to be quite resilient and feel our way through. But yeah, it's looking good. Tell me, what's the radius of distribution from your brewery? Is it quite wide or is it still fairly limited? I think it's, we're at capacity. Last month our sales went up 40%. Last month? Yeah, last month. So we, you know, in that circumstance as the... As far as it can go. And then you have to brew some more. Can you talk a little bit more about some of the employment processes you've had to go through in terms of selecting employees, training and some of the different skills-building exercises you've gone through? Yeah, I mean I think, you know, generally as I mentioned, you know, when you are going into post-conflict societies, not just solvency down, but I mean we went into Angola. We went into Mozambique there. I mean you really do have to start at the very basic level. You know, and that's kind of, you know, sometimes teaching people hygiene processes and things and how to wash their hands and use, you know, water faucets and all of that sort of thing. Because I mean generally they're, you know, it's not part of what they've been used to. And so, you know, you have to start very much at the bottom level. You have to provide infrastructure in Angola. It's a good example where we actually had to provide transport, you know, make sure that we help people to get to the brewery and things sort of as part of that whole process. Skills-building is a challenge. You know, there is a lack of engineering skills across the continent and we very much have to develop that ourselves very often. We do move people around between different countries and different brewers to develop the skills. Similarly, marketing is another area. So quite intense, quite intense and quite hands-on. So you have a lot of local marketing effort, I suppose, to appeal to local markets, but you have to learn how to do all kinds of marketing. Yeah, I mean, we have ways that we do things, the marketing way which kind of sets the overall parameters. But of course, you know, brewing beer, the consumption of beer is very different in different cultural settings. So how you take those kind of generic kind of ways and actually localize them for the local customs and practices means that you have to kind of empower people on the ground. Yeah. Okay, that's... I've all been back to your other point about sanitation. I think it's a real challenge always for food and beverage companies. Sourcing from farmers is one thing, but handling and creating processed, safe sanitary food takes a great deal of skill and you mentioned standards as a key thing that you're doing as a part of your operations in different communities and it strikes me that that's probably always going to be an ongoing challenge as you move into new environments. Yeah, and I think the other thing just to mention is that, you know, people sometimes forget but, you know, 50% of food produced in Africa gets wasted because there's no infrastructure aid to move it around or beat a store it or, you know, the refrigeration. So that whole piece is just hugely important stuff. Okay, so you spend time on that too. Well, I'm going to switch gears a little bit to talk about some of your work on health because you have, again, I think as you mentioned, your origins in Africa and your history there have led SAB Miller to take on certain issues because they're so important in the local environment and health is one of those areas, especially on HIV-AIDS and other areas. I wanted to ask if you could talk about some of your work on health and your programs that you have had in place in Africa and then throughout the world. I think HIV-AIDS, I mean, if I could start there, I mean, as a business with a long history in Africa, I mean, we very much thought at the outset that this was a kind of moral and business issue that was clearly going to impact on our employees, on our customers, our consumers and the kind of communities in which we worked. And the board took a decision that we would actually step into this space, particularly with our own employees. And it's quite interesting to look back because, you know, there wasn't a big business case done. It was a kind of, you know, we've got to step in here and we've got to do something. And with our own employees, obviously the start was to offer voluntary counseling and testing. You know, again, it's kind of not easy to get people to do that. And, you know, what we had to do was build it into managers' goals so that, you know, they had to get their employees, so many of their employees to test you in the course of the year. So you built it into manager standards and evaluations. Yeah, so that their performance was, you know, at the end of the year they would be measured on how many of their staff they'd got through voluntary counseling and testing. What gets measured gets done. It was one of our views. And, you know, I'm pleased to say now in the last year we've got about 75% of our employees actually have gone through the annual testing. And so that process keeps going. We provide antiretrovirals to all of our HIV AIDS positive employees and up to six family dependents, and that's through their lives. And we, you know, clearly the whole piece about education and awareness is hugely important. We have a big peer educator network and in countries where the prevalence is high we have about one peer educator to every 13 employees. So quite a big resource that we've put in there. And the big challenge, the next big challenge is how you reach out to people's spices because one of the things that I, you know, always find it difficult to understand is that some of our HIV AIDS positive employees don't bring their families and their spouses onto the program. They don't get them tested. So we're looking at innovative ways now of how you can get families to test and how you go into homes. And, you know, one of our countries, Uganda's quite advanced there. I think they've got 20% of their spouses now tested as part of that program. Where is that? So moving from the sort of employee piece into the supply chain and this is kind of where it all sort of links back because, you know, we then started to say to ourselves well how do we extend this into our supply chain, those farmers that we've small scale farmers into truckers, into retailers, how do we how do we make sure that they have access to similar testing programs and we've been rolling that out progressively and we've got partnerships with USAID in Uganda around truckers programs to get truckers testing and things. And I think one of the exciting things that we're now doing is it's kind of saying how can we really use our distribution systems and some of our skills to kind of take it to the next level. So in South Africa we've got a new program with the Global Fund where we're using our trucks and our distribution system to distribute condoms to retail outlets. On the program there, we do it in conjunction with the South African Health Ministry so that they're kind of doing the follow-up and making sure that those condoms are being used appropriately. Is this the Men in Taverns program? Or is that different? Well, it's part of it. That's part of the same program. I mean, we distribute the condoms and we're also working with local NGOs to do education in taverns. So programs over a series of six weeks with men in taverns working with them around HIVAs, gender violence, kind of work skills, etc. So a program to really sort of try and tackle alcohol abuse that it's very kind of origin. And so that's all kind of part of the same program. I mention it because I think these are very difficult issues to tackle, especially for an alcohol company. So it's a very unique and interesting way that you've approached it. And I think, again comes so much out of your origins in South Africa and throughout the continent. Yeah, and I mean, just one little rider. I said we didn't do a business case at the start, but actually we did do some work last year to say, well, what's been the cost of this? And it's very interesting how there is a, you can show the benefits from investing in these sorts of areas. That's interesting. What did you find? Well, we actually found that if we netted off all of the costs of our employee programs and benefits in South Africa, we actually had a net surplus at the end of it, which we also found that by just tweaking it a little bit and really just stepping up those levels of testing a bit more, that there were even more benefits to be saved. So, you know, there is a business case there, which I think is very interesting as well. And I should note, we found lots of materials on your website, including a number of white papers and issue papers that the audience might be interested in looking at as well. I see a number of people in the group who are going to want to ask you some questions, but let me ask you one more question before we go to the audience. I wanted to ask, given all of your experiences and sort of your trials and errors, what would be the couple, two or three pieces of advice you would give to other companies who are trying to operate in some of the same environments or situations where you have been practicing and learning different approaches? Look, I mean, I think one of the things is that you've got to do the right thing in these markets and that the business successful is and that I think that is our approach and some of that goes back to the original business DNA. We were talking earlier about, you know, SAB operated under difficult times in South Africa for many years and actually stepped into the vacuum that was created by government and actually, you know, part of the company's DNA is that it sees itself as kind of business has a role to play in developing communities and developing economies. I think the other point is partnerships. I mean we've talked a lot about that as we've gone through the conversation but I think we genuinely believe that it's very difficult for a company to do these things on their own. You do need partnerships with governments, you need partnerships with NGOs, partnerships with civil society. I think innovation would be one of the things I say. You know, our model is all about being local, thinking local, doing, you know, innovating locally and I think you've got to be prepared to do that. And I think, you know, the one thing I would sign off with is really, you know, how would you leverage your value chain? I think, you know, so very often you read about companies going into these sorts of markets and doing straightforward philanthropy and corporate social investment, absolutely there's a place for that and we do that as well. But I think where you can really, really make the difference is by leveraging your core business, leveraging your value chain and through that you can actually, you know, you through the multiplier effect really make a difference. Well, thank you. These are interesting points because I would say that, you know, the big themes that we've heard, as I mentioned as emerging markets are the destination for a lot of board profits. You hear a lot that leveraging business assets and attributes in the way you naturally operate in these environments is a key way to promote development in communities and then certainly the whole local content, local sourcing and capacity building piece that comes along with that is always an important theme that comes up when we talk with different companies about what they're doing. So with that, I see a lot of people who probably have questions, so I want to open up to the audience. Bruce, you're here, over here. Do you want to start? If you'll just stand up, say your name and your question. I'm going to repeat it because we don't have microphones for you today. My name is Tray Thomas. I'm a PhD student at York University of Resolution. My question is about the issue of basic infrastructure and South-South Internet development, because you were talking earlier about how there are needs there and I'm sure that makes an impact on your export process. I'm wondering is there a role in your company to help in the actual development of basic infrastructure in terms of roads and highways coordination with the government and what your export process is like right now and how it's affected by the basic infrastructure needs and if you have any lobbying efforts with the government to kind of address those issues. So the question is around infrastructure in South Sudan and how much SAB Miller is getting engaged in that process or if you're leaving it to the government and any kind of sort of export models that you're looking at. Okay, and that's in relation just to Southern Sudan. Well, let's start from the back. I mean export models, I mean generally what we do is we don't export beer between markets, maybe because it's quite heavy so to truck it long distances doesn't work and be because you have to cross borders and that whole kind of excise piece of cross borders is quite tricky. So around the world actually there is very little export, so that's probably not something that we would look to do. When it comes to working with the government, yes we do work with the government, in fact we were talking to them quite extensively about how we can use our experience to attract other investment into Southern Sudan and I think we feel we've got a role to play there and I know we've hosted various things in the UK. We were hoping to be part of the mission that was coming over this weekend but I'm not quite sure that that happened so I think there is a role for us to play there. When it comes to infrastructure I think you're right, I think we need to be part of that dialogue. We do kind of invest in the last mile infrastructure and we do partner with governments around developing infrastructure. I would have to get back to you on the kind of detail in Southern Sudan at that level. Next question. Bruce? Hi I'm Bruce. It's a question about how these kinds of transactions work. These are the corporate governance center and your colleagues in local companies, affiliates in the field. Do they look to you as a resource for best practices going? Do they look for you as a source of investment into their supply chains? Is it sometimes a hard sale for an overall corporate approach that says we will invest in our supply chain by investing in local production and yet you may have local business managers with different time horizons over different sectors. So the question was about how at the corporate level you work with smaller companies and affiliates on the local content piece. Yeah I mean it's tricky and I wouldn't say that we have all the answers. I mean we see that the PLC level is about setting the policies and I think there we spoke about how if you look at our website there's a whole bunch of position papers there. We also set the sort of standards piece and there we have ten sustainable development priorities that cover a whole host of things from environment, things like HIV aid, supply chain etc and we monitor our performance against those ten sustainable development priorities and twice a year we will sit down with the managing director from the market and the CEO of the global company and we'll go through how they're performing against those ten sustainable development priorities and have a whole measurement system and monitoring system to inform those debates. When it comes to local sourcing the individual businesses have picked that up to as part of their overall business goals. So Africa as a region has it as one of its kind of key priorities I think it's got three priorities and one of those priorities is go farming and you know they have picked this up and are running with it in two at the centre but because they see real business benefits in terms of quality in terms of reduced import costs in terms of actually stimulating local economic benefit and what we can do there is we can then share best practices between markets. We have over the last two or three years have gone in and kind of done deep dives into which models work best and then kind of shared some of that kind of learning between. Occasionally there are things that happen that kind of divert them for instance I can think over the last couple of years where they've been issues that have arisen either because of climate issues or because of government dislocations that have kind of caused us maybe to kind of pull back on some of these things. I think the way we think about it is we try and set the framework for the top we monitor it and we hope that the businesses see the benefit of this and run with it because genuinely there are benefits and that's what we're finding. Tony Carroll. Hi, I'm Tony Carroll. As far as quality goes, having taken advantage of the product in West Africa I can say it's very good. In fact there's quite a total following in the UK for Algeria and Guinness. So if there is something about of a reverse sort of branding. I'm wondering about if you could comment about any of the impact of President Ian Kama's recent moves about raising a substantial tax levy on alcohol. I think his objective is work that alcohol creates perhaps related to HIV incidents in the country I think it's been shown that alcohol does have a relationship. And secondly driving fatalities and other problems. I'm wondering if we've seen any data yet to suggest there has been any demand, any reduction in consumption. And are you fearful that other countries will adopt Ian Kama's principles? A question about taxes on alcohol and sort of managing some of the different concerns and issues around its use. Yeah, I mean I think Ian Kama has taken quite a crusading stand against alcohol. And when he took over as President he one of his first proclamations was to say that he was going to put a 70% levy on alcohol. That actually fell back to 30% and has risen to 40%. And yes it did have a very, very big impact on sales. In fact when I was talking about dislocations that's one of the dislocations that kind of you know, you then pull back from some of your local sourcing because you haven't got the outlets for the products. In Botswana we do produce soft drinks so there has been some displacements into the soft drink site. However, I think the big question is is this tackling alcohol abuse? And the evidence that we see and we there has been an independent study done and the those findings haven't come out is that what it's done by making beer more expensive, commercially produced beer more expensive has pushed people into the illicit alcohol sector. So when you go to Botswana you do see a lot of home brew that kind of you know, pots with people with long straws, you know, and I would question whether we've actually seen a reduction in alcohol abuse or whether we've actually seen a drop in the consumption of commercially produced alcohol. We've certainly seen a drop in the amount of excise taxes that have gone through to the government. So I think it's a watch this space. In the back. Okay, question about rule of law in post conflict environments and so how do you manage some of those issues? Look, I mean, corruption is not an issue just in post conflict societies. It's an issue in a lot of places in which we work and, you know, this probably sounds a bit polyamorous but you kind of have to set yourself very high standards and then enforce those standards and actually it can be very painful and I can give you examples and it's always kind of quite hard to sort of share them in these sorts of forums where the company has foregone quite significant profits for periods of time where we have had to pull back from business transactions because of problems with corruption. We do see it as kind of part of our role to try and kind of change some of that and, you know, did a big initiative when we first went into Columbia around working with the local Chamber of Commerce to kind of raise the whole kind of business ethics issue with businesses in Columbia and we started a three year program and pledges and training with the local Chamber of Commerce there and I think, you know, that has had some positive benefits. So we do see it as kind of something that we have to keep really vigilant about. Right in the back. Hi, my name is Lucie and I work for World Bank. I was wondering if you said your sales were up last month by a lot, but if you see an eventual limit to your expansion cash again, given that you're not, you know, producing deer for export and you're just making it the investing market and if you do see such a limit, what sorts of industries do you think would be maybe better candidates for, you know, expansion disaster damage? So a question about limits to growth in South Sudan and other types of businesses that might have a good opportunities. Yeah, I mean look, I mean there will be clearly a limit to our growth there. I mean, we do have soft drink opportunities there as well. We've got some water business and another sort of soda type products, so I think that there's obviously opportunities there. You know, we are a beverage player and we wouldn't kind of diversify into other markets. But I think what it shows is that consumers do have disposable income and that, you know, for products, small value products like like ours, there are other opportunities for fast moving consumer goods. So in sort of in the in the other sort of food industry areas, I think there's good opportunities. In the front. Yes, I'm Fermi and Kibi at ADC. Do you have any other programs apart from the water program you mentioned earlier? That's to help the community, but do you have any partnership where the government company that is to say brevitys could use your facility or do you have any kind of arrangement? And I wanted to know, in case you run through a situation where the government is trying to start the issue mostly if a Muslim person takes over in any government there's a tendency for that. Do you have a backup plan where you can use that same facility to something that's in the food processing area? And I want to know if you are in Nigeria and in the Netherlands. Okay, let me summarize this question. So it was, do you have partnerships where you have other ways of using your facility? Do you have a backup plan in case you have to scale back on brewing and use your facilities to produce other products? And then the third question was just about other places where you're operating, Nigeria and Guinea? Trinidad and Tobago. Okay, we're not in Trinidad and Tobago, but we are in Nigeria. We have three facilities there, one in Port Harcourt, one which was the Brewery at Habod. We have a water business, the Voltaic Water Business and we've just announced that we're building a brewery at Anisha. So small foothold there, but obviously a market with great opportunity. Do we have a backup plan? Not as such, but we do produce non-alcoholic malt beverages in a lot of our markets and in Africa which we market as a non-alcoholic beverage that's obviously good for you because that actually is particularly successful in some of our Latin American countries as well. But I hope it would never come to that because as we saw in prohibition in America making alcohol consumption, commercial alcohol production illegal does not tackle the issues of alcohol abuse. In fact, as we've seen in other societies of well when prohibition has been brought in, actually alcohol abuse goes up, plus all of the other lawlessness that goes with that. So genuinely I do hope that that doesn't come to pass because I don't think it will actually resolve the issues that people want to tackle. Do we share our facilities with other people? I can't think of examples where we might actually share our actual production facilities. I can think of examples where we open up our buying processors, so for instance in South Africa there's lots of small brewers and we actually buy on their behalf barley and hops and actually sell it on at cost to them so that they benefit from our scale and our buying chain. How did that program get started? I think what you find amongst the brewing fraternity is that there's quite a lot of goodwill and brewing is something that goes back a long way and there's a lot of links between the brewers in the mock is. Great, okay, right here in front. Hi, I'm Joel Pegg from the US Global Leadership Coalition. You mentioned one partnership with USA I believe it's a good trucker but I was wondering, more broadly when you're looking at your own activities around whether the HMBAs are pharma training how do you partner with official development clubs and cement? You see gal doors, it's just sort of where they do show up. And how could the government program do better tailors to find where development objectives and investment objectives are private? It's as if we planted you to give us that question. One of the focus areas of our work in our development project is looking at partnerships and precisely to your question how are companies partnering with official development agencies? Do you seek out partnerships? What are the things that are making it easier to partner or frustrating? We're actually going to be releasing a paper on November 1st Neville Isdell, the former CEO of Coca-Cola will be here to release that paper exploring this very question. So we'd love to have some more input from you on that question. Yeah, I think we tend to start with the area with our own business. So we see an opportunity and then the question is then how do you access that opportunity? How do you leverage then probably we then start to look at who we might work with and how if we need external funding? Do you know it's quite interesting because sometimes it's quite a hard sell for our local people. They would actually much rather get on and do it and bring in local NGOs who they know and they trust and they've kind of got a relationship with and sometimes it's quite a hard sell on our behalf to say well we can leverage funding for here or there and they kind of go do you know what that brings me a whole bunch of grief and so it is a balancing act in that process and sometimes these things can be quite time consuming our business does tend to be a bit action orientated so people once they've decided they're going to do it they want to get on and do so having a two or three year kind of time lag is difficult. However having said that I think the opportunity now that we've got some of these programs up and running and kind of you know we know the quirks and we know the pitfalls and things there's more opportunities now to partner to get that scale. I think it's an easier sell to kind of to the business to kind of say well you know we know how this works so we can bring in partners and particularly on the HRV8 piece where we were talking about the Tavern Intervention programs we're hoping to do that over the, well we started that process. How do you make it easier? Transparency you know speed all things that kind of help help people like myself sell it to the business and put the hours into do it you know. It's very interesting. Other questions? I actually have a question around water. As I mentioned so Neville Isdell is on our board and the current chairman of Coca-Cola, Mutar Kent is on our board and they have done a lot of work on water and I know you do some bottling with Coca-Cola and you look at water you use water a lot. I wanted to ask about your programs around water use and how you're thinking about it, how you see it how you see the company handling it going forward and what are some of the areas that you think governments and companies need to be thinking about water. Water policy is such a tricky challenge because it tends to be relatively inexpensive if not completely free so it's I think always going to be a challenge to manage from a policy perspective so I'm interested in how you guys are looking at it and sort of what things you're thinking about. Water is probably our number one priority when it comes to the kind of whole environment piece we are big users of water in our breweries that wouldn't surprise you but the interesting thing is that if you think about the way we use water we probably use on average sort of four and a half litres per litre of beer that we produce in a brewery but actually to produce the barley that goes into that beer can take a hundred, a hundred and twenty litres and so looking again at the whole kind of chain and how we kind of work with the chain to reduce water consumption and so a couple of years ago we partners with WWF in half a dozen places around the world and we've actually been working on doing some water footprinting with them to really understand where the water use is in our production process, in the supply chain process. We've partnered as I said with WWF and GIZ, the German funding agency is part of that and after those we've carried out the initial footprinting in each of those countries and now we're building sort of multi-stakeholder partnerships to tackle some of the issues that we found as a consequence of that water footprinting. So for instance in Ukraine we found that the areas where we were growing our barley were very much stressed and there were issues there but we needed to work with local farmers around how irrigation could be more effective and similar issues in Tanzania and Peru. So we see ourselves we have issues or challenges to make sure that we're as efficient as possible in our breweries and our target is to reduce our water consumption by 25% compared with 2008 by 2015 by 2015. So start at the breweries, go up the supply chain through the work with WWF and then we're active along with people like Koch and Leslie at the sort of regional and global level in terms of trying to kind of influence policy there and we've been part of a big piece of work with McKinsey and the Water Resources Group to look at how policy can develop in those areas. Great. There are other questions from the audience. Okay. We have two here. I'm going to bundle you two together if you don't mind. Why don't you go first? Hi, I'm Jeannie Ellis from Cardinal Emerging Markets. I had a question about the monitoring and measuring. Sustainable development can be a different difficult thing to monitor and measure. So I would just like to hear a little bit more about how you do that and do you sort of look at both the softer impact side of improving social license to operate but then also how that directly impacts your bottom line. It makes it easier to do future programs if you can show that link between the employee and community programs with the impact on the bottom line. Thank you. Okay, so first question about monitoring and measurement and your question. Hi, I'm Dick Morford, most recently at UNDP but I was wondering in Sudan you said that you had some problems with the regulatory environment, the infrastructure and I was just wondering more broadly when you look at countries around Africa and elsewhere in the developing world what kind of issues do you really find generally when you go into these particularly in new markets you had problems with corruption property protection and how do you work both as a corporation and locally to try to change the environment so that it's better to work with other companies do you find yourselves working with other government representatives and representatives of various governments that you have won't kind of face in or how do you go about that? So the second question then is about operating environment what do you face when you enter a new market and how do you manage some of those challenges? Okay, well let's start with the SD piece. I mean, absolutely it's difficult to measure and monitor. When I first joined the business sort of nine years or so the company had been an early adopter of the GRI standards and as I went around the business and talked to all of our MDs in markets I'd say well how do you use this data and they go buggered if we use it, I hope you use it you know, we're collecting this all and you know I hope somebody's using it and actually what we found was that they weren't using it and the reason why they weren't using it was they felt it was complicated and you know, all the rest of it so what we did was we started a process which took a couple of years of consulting consulting with the business on what were the key issues that they thought we should be measuring so we worked directly with the countries but we also worked with our functional groups so the technical folks, the human resources folks the supply chain folks and out of that we developed these ten sustainable development priorities that I mentioned earlier which four around environment, one around enterprise development, HRV aids supply chain standards, transparency human rights and corporate social investment and then within each of these we developed KPIs and actually we arranged them into what we call a staircase and within the ten priorities you have a, what's four and it's now been extended to five level staircase and within each level of the staircase are a series of quantitative and qualitative indexes and to move up the staircase you have to kind of tick off all the indices. Now the interesting thing is that when we finished all of that process we'd managed to fold all of the GRI performance indicators into the ten and into the stairway process but do you know what? It now means that our businesses can measure themselves on this stairway and they can look at themselves in Poland and they can go do you know what? Checks now at level four on the stairway and we're only at level three so you know what can we do to get ourselves up to level four and the whole process of the consultation process and then this kind of having these internal benchmarks that are very visible which people can compare each other against and kind of giving them a lexicon that is our lexicon our language which they can identify with has radically changed the whole debate and then by actually having these six monthly check-ins with the global chief executive and the regional managing director to look at performance against these stairways has actually transformed the whole process so I guess that's our experience there Gosh I think we need all afternoon to answer the question on the second question I mean and also it's the sort of thing quite useful to have a kind of one on one dialogue because you know some of the things are quite challenging that we have found and every market is different you know it's very hard to generalize and also it's not just new markets that you know where as I mentioned earlier where you kind of tackle things like corruption where you have issues around the legal system and the kind of vested interests and that sort of thing they are everywhere and you know we have you know we have our value set and our standards and we have to apply them and you know very happy to give you some more detail in a one on one if that be helpful All right well we're coming upon four o'clock and I want to ask you one last question because I'm looking at pictures of all your different brands and I want to just ask what's your favorite SAB Miller product Well it has to be Peroni I think Aha a Peroni woman you heard it here Please join me in thanking Sue we just so enjoyed our conversation today