 I'm just trying to get this thing sourced. Jay, buckle up, let's go. All right, welcome to Green New Theater 2020, part five. Y'all, we done been new. This session is co-facilitated by Groundwater Arts in partnership with HowlRound and our friends at NIFA. We are hosting this call on Zoom and we are also live streaming on HowlRound and on Facebook Live. So hello to all of you who are joining us. If you joined us in the first few Green New Theater calls throughout the summer and fall, welcome back. Thanks for joining us again. You'll notice that a lot of the language may sound familiar, especially in the beginning. So thank you for your patience as we create radical access points for new people to join us. So let's get into it. This session will last approximately 90 minutes and we recognize that digital fatigue is real. So feel free to leave, come back, stand up, turn your camera off, get a snacky snack, whatever you need to do to take care of yourself at any point. As a heads up, we may about to say wonderful. So if anyone needs any additional access support, especially around ASL, please privately message Annalisa or any of us with the fancy Zoom backgrounds and we will be more than happy to get you squared away and good to go. Awesome. So later on, we'll have a larger discussion and we really hope that the folks are here on Zoom will participate because very much, so much of the Green New Theater is based on relationship building and decentralized processes. So we encourage you to participate to whatever extent that you can. And for our friends on Facebook and HowlRound, please be in the comment section, send us emails because there will be multiple opportunities to loop you into the conversation as well. Wonderful. So before we dive into it, we're going to take a moment to introduce ourselves as facilitators. And while we do that, please feel free to introduce yourself in the chat box using your name pronouns and alien acknowledgement you like to give. For those of y'all watching on HowlRound, send us an email to introduce yourself. And for those of you on Facebook, please comment. So visibilizing our access needs is a method of accountability. And so I want to take a moment to highlight, amplify and shout out unsettling dramaturgy, a colloquial of mad crypt disabled and indigenous dramaturgs from across Turtle Island for modeling what you all will witness us do in just a moment. The link to the unsettling Facebook page will be in the chat and in the comments on Facebook as soon as I put them there. So I will start. He's Jay, Tara Cho Chifkados. My name is Tara Moses and I'm a citizen of the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma. I use she her pronouns and I am calling in from the Muscogee Creek Reservation in the site to the 1921 Burning of Black Wall Street. These lands are colonally known as Tulsa, Oklahoma and I am one mile away from the Arkansas River. My access needs are that I will need extra time to respond as my attention is split to multiple areas because I'm monitoring the Facebook and email. I may need to get up and go out of frame or to really shut off my camera to readjust as I'm nursing too many injuries. Other than that, my access needs are met. My visual description is that I have brown skin, very long, very dark hair. I'm sitting in front of a blue to white gradient background with our new fancy groundwater arts logo on it. You also cannot see, but you can see on the other folks' backgrounds. It says Groundwater Arts on Facebook, GroundwaterArts at gmail.com and hashtag Green New Theater. I am the producing artistic director of Tulsa, co-founder of GroundwaterArts, a director, a playwright and a person who does too many things. And with that, I'll pass it off to Anna. Thank you. My name is Anna Lathrop. My pronouns are she, her, hers. I live on the unseated lands of the Lenape Nation, more specifically, the Canarsie Peoples, what is colonally known as Bay Ridge, Brooklyn between Upper New York Bay and Nayak Bay. As a visual description, I am a white woman with blonde hair that is currently up, wearing a comically large blue sweater. My access needs are being met. And I am a futures and social services designer and co-founder of GroundwaterArts. And I will now pass it on to Annalisa. Thank you. My name is Annalisa Diaz. I use she, her pronouns. And I'm calling from the traditional lands of Piscataway Nation, colonally known as Baltimore, Maryland by the waters of the Chesapeake Bay. These lands have also been cared for by the Susquehannock, Lenape, Lumbian, many indigenous nations who are still here today. As a visual description, I'm a brown skinned woman with long black hair that's currently tied back. I am sitting in front of a blue to white gradient background as Tara described earlier with the GroundwaterArts logo and contact information on it. At this moment, my access needs are met. I'm the director of artistic partnerships and innovation at Baltimore Center Stage, co-founder of GroundwaterArts and also an independent theater maker. And like Tara, a person who does too many things. I also wanna take a moment to just call into this space Ronnie Pinoy, who is Laguna Pueblo and Cherokee, a producer at Octopus Theatricals, an advisor for the New England Foundation of the Arts National Theater Project, a composer and our fellow co-founder of GroundwaterArts, also a person who does too many things. She could not be with us this evening, but she is a major part of our Captain Planet GroundwaterArts team. And we will bring as much of her wisdom with us into the room as we can. Finally, for everyone who is not with us on this Zoom account, but tuning in on HowlRound or Facebook, you can participate by commenting on the GroundwaterArts Facebook Live or email us at groundwaterarts at gmail.com. That is all one word. And our email is also in our virtual backgrounds. Tara will be monitoring those channels, dropping all links we discussed here in the Facebook comments section and vocalizing what y'all share either on Facebook or through email. If you're unable to get on Facebook and viewing on HowlRound and want the links shared, please email us and we will send them to you. Zoom, the platform that we're using today and seemingly every day, is headquartered in what is now called San Jose, California on the traditional lands of the Alona and Tamien peoples. And we acknowledge the land Zoom resides on because the work we create here on a digital platform does not exist in an ether or an imaginary void but is made possible because of physical land and the indigenous people who steward it. GroundwaterArts shapes, stewards and seeds a just future through creative practice, consultation and community building. For us, climate justice is defined as racial justice, economic justice and a decolonized future. This call is the fifth in a series of six Green New Theater calls that has been spanning nine months. As those of you who have joined us for more than one call already know, the calls are intentionally spaced out so that everyone has the ability to opt in or opt out as their personal bandwidth permits. And because deep change requires the capaciousness of time and care. We hope that over the course of these calls, we as a field will feel more equipped to move toward justice, both at an individual and institutional level as we look to rebuild. The Green New Theater document itself was created in collaboration with a wide array of perspectives at center, black, indigenous, people of color and disabled people, as those are the folks who are on the front lines of climate change and have been leading climate justice movements for decades. The document itself models community accountability and you can read all of the names of the wonderful people who volunteered their time and expertise to the document. Each call will model a different principle of the Green New Theater. The document consists of six principles. They are community accountability, decolonized leadership practices, publicly transparent budgeting, right relationship to land and history, sustainable resources and immediate divestment from fossil fuels. As you may already know, our call today will be centered on the principle of right relationship to land and history. We will also post a link to the full document in the chat now. Great, and it is there. So I would like to take a moment to introduce our partner on the call, Keita Sullivan at New England Foundation for the Arts. We are so excited that she has joined us today. And so I'm going to turn the floor over to her for a few minutes and then we'll get on with the discussion. So thank you so much for being here, Mido. I'm Koei Nithampak, Keita Nithasili, Sullivan, Mr. Sairak, Tarotas, and Mr. Sairak, Montecat, Kwa Shinakak, Wong Black, Nitha Paiwank, Nari Khateen, Massachusetts, Wampanoag, Nipmuk, Aiyuangkash, and Nuthap. So essentially what I just said, hello. My name is Keita, Keita Sullivan, Turtle Klan, member of the Montauket, and Shinakak Nations, and I'm also Black. I live here in what is known as Shamut, AKA Boston, Boston. I gotta get the right Boston. I am, the lands here are the Massachusetts, Nipmuk, and Wampanoag folks. And these are linguistically and some by blood my kin. And so I'm grateful to be in relationship with land that I have a tie to that has not been severed. I am the Senior Program Director for New England Foundation for the Arts Theater. I work with in a team of three, which I always bring them into the space with me because they help me get the work done. For visual purposes, I am a light-skinned Indigenous and Black woman with shoulder length, salt and pepper and purple hair. I'm wearing a red t-shirt, crazy colored glasses. Behind me is a white wall with my nation's banner, not a flag, but our banner, and a dress that was painted by an arrogant artist by the name of Don Spears, who's a very dear friend of mine. In terms of access needs, I am currently okay. It's been a long day in Zumaqi, Zumaqi, Zumaqi land, but I may be interrupted at any point by my very loud. Is that enough? We're wondering, Keitha, if you can talk a little bit about how you consider the relationship between right relationship to land and history. Back when I started, when I was an environmental justice attorney, one of the things that always used to make me, I don't know, it's irritated or just ruffle, make my hair stand on end, was when people would say things like environmental justice means that everyone has a safe and healthy environment where they live, work, and play. And I would say, and pray, because for me, the relationship to land is sacred. And therefore, I often am in prayer when I am out in the world in places that I find to have a particular relationship for me. And always being, getting that moment where people go, oh, we can't say pray. But if we're going to be talking about environmental justice, we need to acknowledge that not everyone has the same perception of the land that some of us have been here for generations uncountable. And that for us, the land is a nurturing relationship, but it is also a responsibility. Kakasunaki, Mother Earth, supports us. And it's our responsibility to support her. We can't, if you are not in a good relationship with your mother, then the rest of your life is not going to be in a good relationship. You will be struggling to find yourself. And it is the history of this country that intercepts that relationship. It was the, in order to create this American nation, it required the genocide and removal of the people who were here first and the importation of people against their will in order to work what was stolen. And that is that for this particular piece of earth is where the relationship started to fall apart. You can't build a nation where you are, all that you build is based on stolen labor on stolen lands. And if you don't realize that, you never understand why the relationship feels wrong. If you don't know that, if you don't think about that in all that you do, then your relationship is bad and you don't even know why. And so for me as an environmental justice attorney and an environmental justice activist, it always was bringing people back to those origins of the dysfunction because if you don't repair that original dysfunction, everything that builds on that is subsequently flawed. And so that's how I approach my relationship to the land as a responsibility and as a gift because I am gifted with life. I am gifted to live in a place where I am surrounded by people who are my kin, even if mostly Boston thinks they're invisible and not there anymore, but we're still here and we still know each other and we still have that responsibility to each other. I think that's probably a good enough place to start. I don't know if you- I think we're just gonna jump into conversation if that feels okay to everybody. The conversation, just for everybody that's listening or with us on Zoom, this portion will last about 25-ish minutes and it'll be between the groundwater crew and Keeta. And then we'll try to open it up for dialogue after we get some ideas going. And we are going to attempt to talk at a speed that our captioners and interpreters can catch up with us. But if we are speaking too quickly, please let us know and we will, you know, slow down. Well, I'll go ahead and start, but I'm almost like, we're so blessed to have Keeta with us that I'm like, let me just ask her all the questions. One of my favorite, so when I think about right relationship to land and history, one of my like, I'm always on it about the myth of the wilderness and how the white conservation movement is sort of founded on all of these racist and anti-indigenous ideas. And I'm just wondering, like I could go on all day about that, but Keeta, I know you have direct experience as an environmental justice lawyer. And I'm just wondering if you have like actual stories of being in that fight with the big green and all of those sort of organizations that are capitalizing on these myths. Yeah, you know, it's all of the women who started with me or most of 90% of the women who started as environmental justice attorneys at the same time I did, which was back in 97, all of us have found other things to do. And part of that has to do with this constant fight of, you know, these environmental organizations that don't recognize the validity of our experience, the validity of our concerns about their approach to environmentalism, it's as if they don't recognize that people are animals too. And that you can't separate the whales and certainly not in my country. You cannot separate the whales from the people. We are a wailing people. We are in relationship with those whales. So to say save the whales, but who cares about the people is not, it's a constant draining battle that you have to fight because I'm sorry, I am as important as my sister, the whale. There is a relationship there that is valid and sustaining. And so that was really a major issue for me. That was also, you know, it's again, it's the liberal thing, you can't say pray, right? Why not? Why can't, you know, why do we have to do this? Or being told once that I was in the wrong because I wasn't a vegetarian, because of course we have to, you know, we have to save the animals. And I was like, well, if you believe that the earth is our mother, the plants are our siblings, the mountains are our grandparents and you worry about eating sentient beings with feelings, what am I supposed to eat? Because in my worldview, plants also are sentient beings and they offer us their gifts. So in whose morality, in your Sierra Club morality, yes, maybe that works, but that doesn't work in my morality. And so, you know, it's like, oh, can't you do that? It's like, okay, I will just breathe air and survive on that because obviously, you know, I can't live in your world. So that, you know, those sorts of fights, for a long time there were lots of fights about why don't you have people of color on your boards? Right? Why don't you have someone other than white male environmentalists on your boards? Let's start there. And so it became a real issue. The first, at the first summit in 1990, Environmental Justice Summit, there was a real battle. The 10, there had been questions to all of these national environmental organizations put forward and they still hadn't responded about environmental justice concerns, about their relationships with people and they still hadn't responded. We held the second one, it was supposed to be in 2000, ended up being in 2001. And they still really hadn't made any changes. And in fact, there, I was feeling, even within that community, starting to feel invisibleized as an indigenous person because there was no acknowledgement of either sovereignty or the long-term relationship that we have in the places where we are from. And so even there, that was still a struggle because again, being very, being visible is often more difficult when you don't look like what people think you should look like. I don't adhere to the indigenous phenotype. That doesn't, it doesn't matter if there's an entire reservation where you can go and if you walk on, you know immediately who I'm related to. But it's a very invisibilizing field. And it starts with that, the animals are important, people aren't. The wilderness is important, the people who live there aren't and in fact, they're destructive even though it has been stewarded for generations by the same people. So it's an ongoing, very tenuous relationship even when, I think it was at Sierra Club, there wasn't an RDC, it was Sierra Club spun off their environmental justice arm into Earth justice, right? And even there, it was a fight to keep the focus on environmental justice and not just animals and water. And just to put a finer point on it for people who are listening and are like, maybe this is the first time you're sort of hearing about this idea of the myth of the wilderness, what Keeta is sort of talking about and what we're circling around is if you kind of Google and we'll drop a couple of links to articles about the history of the white conservationist movement in the US, but basically all of it was founded, the organizing impulses behind the conservationist movement relies on this ideology that is colonial, that is anti-indigenous, which is the idea that the wilderness exists and we must preserve it. And in order for there to be a wilderness, there must not be people living in it already. And so from that organizing impulse, you get things like the Sierra Club, you get things like the national parks and you get like actual legislation that is removing people from their lands in order to preserve the pristine wilderness. And there's a whole violent history that is tied up with the white conservationist movement. And that is ongoing as Keeta was just describing, even inside of the big green organizations like Sierra Club, like NRDC, like all of the big green, many of the people that I know who are BIPOC folks trying to work inside of those organizations similar to what Keeta expressed, they're all like, I'm out. Like I can't, this is harmful, it's oppressive. They're all leaving and basically founding, many of them are founding their own organizations and trying to do work in different ways. So we'll drop some, I think Tara might have already done it because she's that fast and amazing. But just to say if this is the first time you're hearing about it, please like read up on the history of the white conservationist movement. And I know for me, again, I like talk about this all the time, but when I think about right relationship to land and history, there's so much healing that needs to happen in terms of how we think about even how to approach being in better relationship with the earth and being in better relationship as people who are living here on these lands, for me as a not native person, I'm like, how can I contribute to healing and not to reproducing harm? I wanna say that it actually stems from the founding of this country because it's the doctrine of discovery that says that uninhabited lands are available for colonization and therefore belong to the finder. And in order to do that, they had to declare the people who were here to be non-human. And therefore it was pop, so that then you can take the land. The logical extension of this then is, now we have this land, we have to preserve it and keep it safe for us. Which means we really can't have these non-humans in their traditional places, doing what they traditionally do, which is utilize the land as they have for generations. It really is the continuation of that colonizing point of view that came here with doctrine of discovery. Absolutely, thank you so much. I mean, and this is why blanket statements like fur is bad, do not use it, is grossly anti-indigenous because there are literally hundreds, thousands of tribes who have been ethically sourcing and using fur since as long as the sun's been in the sky because we are in relationship with him. This is also why Ellen DeGeneres saying don't beat baby seals is so problematic because again, indigenous people are in relationship with him. Anyway, so just thank you all so much for sharing this. And what I really just hope is that folks can realize that we cannot reconcile our past, our history with modern indigenous people with other BIPOC folks because we've never consiled that history before. It's never been learned, so we can't come together again if we've never came together in the first place. So I just hope this is really enlightening and really helps bridge that gap between like tribal sovereignty around the relationship of these lands, specifically for Black and Native people and settler colonization with the environmentalist movement, with the Green New Theater, as we've been moving forward with and with all of these conservation movements. It's impossible to separate them because they are the same thing. Anna. Well, to connect it to theater in a more direct way, also these same notions of neoliberal ownership, especially theaters that own buildings that own spaces and where those spaces are and this sort of the arrogance of settlers thinking we can go and we can save a neighborhood and we can revitalize because this place is clearly not vital because white people aren't in it or rich people aren't in it. And those of us who are settlers who are the legacies of settlers like myself, there's a real, I mean, there's a massive amount of responsibility and work that falls on our shoulders to take a huge step back and really rigorously interrogate our practices and our egos and our arrogance in all of this because ultimately like where, how is it that someone who, you wouldn't go into someone's house and be like, oh, I know how to do this better than you do. You've lived here your whole life. Oh, but I know better and I've never been here before, but I clearly, I know. So I think about that a lot when it comes to theater programming, especially community engagement. Yeah. How often have all of us been asked, can you connect me to this community? Oh, I don't live there. You do. You need to do your work because these are the people who were there, are still there, are going to remain there and you are basically a squatter. And so you need to do your work. I can't make that relationship for you. I can maybe introduce you to one person, but that is one person, that is not the community. And so that is, I guess it's all the time and it is very rude, I'll say rude. Because there's a lot of other words floating through my head right now. But it is, that is what gentrification is. Right? It is not revitalization if you are removing the people who were there and have a right to be there. And so that is the, and I'm suffering that right now in the community where I live. When I moved here 20 years ago, it was a black and native community. I think I am one of two remaining native folk here. The community is rapidly turning white and my poor husband who is white has said over and over again, I didn't move here to live with white people. I can do that anywhere. And it has been, you know, and he's right. If you are white, you can go pretty much into any community and feel relatively safe. But that's not why we moved here. We moved here because it was a black and indigenous community and my family would be safe coming here. And they no longer feel that way. I mean, and that translates so well to the theater, so much so. I mean, because every other day someone's launching a new French festival and a new building on land that's not theirs that they illegally took. Or that they have because it was illegally taken in the first place. And so for some folks who may be listening wondering, well, what can I do about it? Well, number one, you can give your land back. Number two, have a really deep and nuanced understanding of colonization that specifically settler colonization and how that manifests in your life and in your work. Anna brought up about community engagement programs. Queeta just talked about gentrification of those effects. That is very, very clear in the resident theater system in the Lord theater system because it's reliant on these quote unquote expert artists which we all know what they look like. We know the majority of them look like. Anyway, who come into these quote unquote at risk communities to then colonize those individuals on their idea of theater, which is rooted in a Eurocentric colonized way of telling stories when indigenous people from across the world have been telling stories. Since, again, I say this all the time, but since as long as the sun has been in the sky. So that is not the only one way to create. And so, again, as much as all of this is put together, something that you can also do is learn to separate what your individual definition of theater may be, what your definition of environmental justice may be with what I like to call capital T theater, capital J justice that is inclusive of all the individuals who have been stewarding this land, who have been telling these stories, who have been protecting these lands for far longer than your ancestors colonized mine. Just something to think about as like things that you can proactively do. And the last thing I'll leave because I also want to hear from just, there's such so much wisdom in the call is that y'all like, we done did this. There is a model, ain't nobody and bent in the wheel, it's done, been done. And so there are just so many models of leadership, specifically black and indigenous leadership in the US that you can look to who've already done this work, who've already created this roadmap of how to follow it. And I find that to be very, very warm and very comforting that I'm not in this alone and I don't have to spend all this time and energy to figure out how to do it when there's so much wisdom of folks who already have. And let's be honest y'all, like with the climate crisis, it's not negotiable either. It's not like, oh, I can choose to do this or I can choose not to, like the time is running out. So we gotta. Yeah, as I said, time is running out and is almost out. You know, yes, we're not using as much oil, fuel oil, but we are using resources that are still affecting in particular indigenous communities through climate change. All of our electricity is still causing climate change. All of our, you know, the laptops that we use, the iPads, the phones, they're all using materials that are refined, that are extracted and refined and are still impacting indigenous communities around the world. And while we are blessed to have these resources, there are indigenous communities out there that don't. They're being, I've lost the word, but they are not enjoying the benefits. It's, you know, if someone came to you and said, oh, now we're gonna have this great new garbage system and we're gonna put it next door to you, right? So all of that, so all of our garbage will be treated in this brand new recycling facility, but it's going to be in your backyard. Oh, and because you don't have any money, you really can't move anywhere else. And because you don't have any money, you also don't have any say in this because you have no political power to keep it out of your backyard. It is the same things when we are in Zoom, we are still participating in that extraction and objectifying and oppression. It makes it very difficult. I'm grateful that, you know, that I don't have to use my car, but I also have to be cognizant of the fact that everything I do still has an impact. And I don't have all the answers on how we mitigate them, but I would say I do have these. Every advisor who works with me, reading applications, everybody gets these because I refuse to buy any more plastic utensils for meetings, right? There are costs to everything. And even it's not a big gesture, but it is at least that much more plastic isn't going into the system. Those are, you know, there are things that you can do. That goes back, Kita, to a little bit about what you were saying, I don't know, for me, it goes back to what you were saying about being in relationship with the whales, where it's like we are, everything we do is in relationship and has an impact on something. And so it's like, how do we get in right relationship to the land that we're on, to the history that we are a legacy of? Like that, for me, you just made, for me, you just made the point of this whole conversation. It's like, no matter what we do, whether we're on Zoom, whether we're on our phones, whether we're walking down the street and we're in a neighborhood that we're contributing to the gentrification of or whatever the thing is, we're having an impact. And we can't act like we're not. Right. And, you know, yes, there are small actions and there are big actions, but small actions make big actions. You can't make a big action without planning and without doing the small things first. And I know people are like, oh, recycling sucks, whatever. It doesn't get anything there. But you know what, if you are still reducing that waste stream, you are still doing something. And it doesn't have to be perfect, but you can't enter into a good relationship, a right relationship, if you aren't making some effort. So I am checking my battery level, by the way. So first of all, thank you, everyone, for your incredible wisdom. We're going to read aloud the poem for calling the spirit back from wandering the earth and its human feet by Joy Harjo. And then we're going to just move into a conversation with everyone, just holding everything we've heard in our discussion and this beautiful poem. So I'm going to share my screen and Tara is going to read it aloud. Put down that bag of potato chips, that white bread, that bottle of pop. Turn off that cell phone, computer and remote control. Open the door, then close it behind you. Take a breath offered by friendly winds. They travel the earth gathering essences of plants to clean. Give it back with gratitude. If you sing it, will give your spirit lift to fly the stars' ears and back. Acknowledge this earth who has cared for you since you were a dream planting itself precisely within your parents' desire. Let your moccasin feet take you to the encampment of the guardians who have known you before time, who will be there after time. They sit before the fire that has been there without time. Let the earth stabilize your post-colonial, insecure jitters. Be respectful of the small insects, birds and animal people who accompany you. Ask their forgiveness for the harm we humans have brought down upon them. Don't worry. The heart knows the way through. There may be high rises, interstates, checkpoints, armed soldiers, massacres, wars, and those who will despise you because they despise themselves. The journey might take you a few hours, a day, a year, a few years, a hundred, a thousand or even more. Watch your mind. Without training, it might run away and leave your heart for the immense human feast, set by the thieves of time. Do not hold regrets. When you find your way to the circle, to the fire kept burning by the keepers of your soul, you will be welcomed. You must clean yourself with cedar, sage, or some healing plant. Cut the ties you have to failure and shame. Let go of the pain you are holding in your mind, your shoulders, your heart, all the way to your feet. Let go of the pain of your ancestors to make way for those who are heading in our direction. Ask for forgiveness. Call upon the help of those who love you. These helpers may take many forms, animal, element, bird, angel, saint, stone, or ancestor. Call your spirit back. It might be caught in corners, increases of shame, judgment, and human abuse. You must call in a way that your spirit will want to return. Speak to it as you would of a loved child. Welcome your spirit back from its wandering. It may return in pieces and tatters. Gather them together. They will be happy to be found after being lost for so long. Your spirit will need to sleep a while after it's bathed and given clean clothes. Now you can have a party. Invite everyone you know who loves and support you. Keep room for those who have no place else to go. Make a gift away and remember, keep the speeches short. Then you must do this. Help the next person find their way through the dark. Be joined hard. And just to say, Rani who couldn't be here with us was the one who suggested that poem. And so big thanks to Rani because, oh my goodness. It's, I just, I hadn't known that poem before and it's such a gift. So I just wanted to call Rani in to the space with us. Is now the time that we talk to, we have more conversation and if people on the call want to turn their cameras on and join us, we want to open it up to conversation. And I don't know Tara if there are some thoughts and questions at all in the Facebook land. No, not yet. So those of y'all on the Facebook land, this is your time to shine folks. So feel free to also throw in any thoughts, comments, questions, anything you would like for us to discuss here in the Zoom land or anything that you want to share from Facebook land and where you are. And feel free to use the raise hand function and participants or just make a mo movement in your box or just unmute and jump in. And I'm going to apologize ahead of time if my battery runs out on my laptop since I left my charger in some other place. Which also means if there's like people who are wanting to ask Keita a question, get it in now because don't miss out on the immeasurable wealth of Keita Sullivan, everyone. Don't say that. It's true, you are too humble. I mean, like really the wisdom we are blessed with is no joke. Well, I'll say which part of the poem I liked the most. There's the, I loved, I mean, the whole poem is brilliant, right? And I love the, then you must do this, help the next person find their way through the dark because it just for me sort of highlights the fact that it's not one linear journey. It's like, it's cyclical. It's always moving on to the next person to pull another person in there and help them through to this journey, which is like so, it's so not about just you, which I love. And also it's not always about you. It's not just other people. Again, as you know, Keita was talking about earlier what we've been talking about. It is the land, it is the air, it is the water. It is the indigenous people who still is the land you live on who you may not know. It is those folks who are on the front lines of climate change who you may also not know. It is those folks who've been displaced by your theater who you purposefully don't know. All of those folks are part of your community and those who you have to be in relationship with. So yes, yes. And I saw you unmuted, Shereen. Yeah, I was just gonna, I think say like one of the things that I'm like thinking about, cause I feel like, you know, being in right relationship with land and history is an ongoing process. And like one part of my process right now that I feel like I'm really struggling with is like how to hold businesses and corporations accountable that I am like in relationship with for a variety of reasons to get them to be in the right relationship with land and history. And like even down to just like the dog treats that I buy, like I just can't, like I've been emailing like compulsively like corporations about like the bag, like the packaging that they use but then they just put like recycle on the corner but there's like no indication that this plastic is not recyclable and it's not recyclable in Detroit unless like, and so it's just like, and it just goes like no matter all the emails I send they just go into an ether and nobody will talk to me. And like how to like the strategies of like these like walls of corporations that like I feel like I don't have the power to get through and like, and it's all a process but that's just something that I've, I was thinking about through this conversation. Yeah, I, you know, that is such a major issue. I mean, even if you are going to your local store, right? You're like, okay, can you not give me that extra bag? You know, can you like stop wasting that on me because I really don't want it and you need someone else to do it. Sorry, that's Hermione, sorry, come on. I think there's also, I don't know, I'm curious, Annalisa and Tara, how you would feel about this, but I think there's a efficacy in sort of the policy level of also like New York with its plastic bag ban that then didn't happen because of COVID and is now happening again. There is some amount that can be done sort of on that larger level, but it's also that sort of, it's dependent on the existence of the state, which is like already inherently problematic as a solution, right? Yeah, it's, yeah, an argument that can be made about sort of like the idea that an individual should be responsible, like Shereen, your one individual actions should be responsible for like solving the climate crisis. It's just like not, there are arguments that that's not effective and that like actually we should be pressuring the systems to change, but to go back to what Keita said earlier, we can't lose hope that like actually my actions do have some effect. So it's not, I think for me it's like, I'm gonna do the little small actions that I can, but I'm not gonna only do that. I'm also going to be working in community and working toward building power wherever I can to pressure the systems to change as well. But also, yes, I'm gonna tell my local store, don't give me that plastic bag. And like, yes, I'm gonna do, and Baltimore, the city is not recycling right now because of the pandemic. So that's the whole situation. And they're asking, I know it's crazy. They're asking citizens to go to drop offs, like to gather our stuff and take it to a drop off center. They're not picking up recycling anymore. So you know that that means most of the city is just not recycling. So I'm doing the thing of like putting it all in and like every weekend going to the recycling center and it's like one small thing that I'm trying to do and trying to keep my spirit of about it, but I'm also obviously, like working in community to try and build power. I think it's, you have to do both. Yeah, and it's definitely a balance. I think it was also really important when we talk about those conversations of what we can do individually and how we can lobby, demand, burn down institutions. Is that we also to be cognizant about frontline communities, those who do not have access to the same things that we may do and who have to rely on these plastic materials or the single use plastics or have to rely on these plastic bags and that it is not a one size fits all fix. It is one where we take into consideration the nuances and the conditions and the situations of each and every individual person. I mean, because there's a reason why the Conservatives movement has been predominantly white and predominantly affluent. You know, there's a reason why there are these deep, deep classes and divides in addition to these deep race divides in the, you know, in the green movement because poor folks here, this is your fault for using single use plastics. This is your fault for having styrofoam cups versus, you know, it's actually the fault of the system who's made it impossible for you to have access to these things. And that again, roots down to direct colonization, you know, goes down to 1492 to now in the US anyway, but it's also connected. So I think that's also why like the right relationship to land and history is so important because we have to think intersectionally and use that to empower us in our various positions of privilege to lobby those who we can. So if you do have the means and access to lobby your politicians who spoiler y'all they work for us, some people forget. They do it. And if you don't, that's okay. Like we can only do as much as we can, but if you have the privilege and access, you know, again, just as Joy Harjo has written, you know, do it for your neighbor and for your neighbors who you may not know and for your neighbors who you may not even know who they are or where their circumstances are. Yeah, what, what, sorry. I have no visual, but I still have you on the phone. So I, one of the things that just came to mind Tara is the idea of food justice and how it's our fault we live in communities that don't have grocery stores with healthy food. And how does, you know, how, you know, but you haven't made it possible for us to have reasonably priced food and you haven't made it possible for those businesses that would bring those foods to move into our community. And that is not something that as an individual, I have control over. It is a systemic issue that people are not able to deal with unless they actually come together as a community. So I just want a voice from Facebook. Claudia Alec said, there is no such thing as ethical consumption under capitalism, but inside these conditions, we can perform in ways that are in right relationship with land and humans, not capital and then Tiffany added, both and for sure, big and small actions are needed. And Tiffany is also very grateful for this conversation. So thank you, Claudia and Tiffany. Absolutely, their food deserts and food swamps are intentional, ain't no accident. So thank you that for that. Did you say food swamp? Yes, so a food swamp, y'all. Oh, I don't know this one, teach me Tara. All right, so food deserts, as we know, are like lack of access to grocery stores. Like as an example, the Navajo Nation, which is the largest reservation in the country, they like 30,000 square acre square miles. I apologize, top of my head anyway, but a lot and they have three grocery stores. And again, that's on purpose. So that's a food desert, we're pretty aware, if you don't have a grocery store, I think within a certain mile radius. Now, a food swamp is that the only food you have access in your area are things like McDonald's, things that are fast food that are intentionally un-nutricious to contribute to the systemic health and poverty issues in communities. And we see a lot of food swamps in like the suburbs of major cities and predominantly black and brown neighborhoods. You know, I see a lot of food swamps down here in native communities, because like where my family is in Seminole Nation, as an example, there's a couple, there's a couple grocery stores, not by couple, I think maybe two actually. And then for the rest of the food that you can get, it's gas station to Keto's is what we have. I think there's a McDonald's. Like I think it's literally convenient stores is where you can buy your groceries. And that's where most people can go to buy their groceries. And then it's also very difficult to grow your own food because of these additional restrictions made by the government on what you can and cannot grow on your own property. In addition to the fact that in these frontline communities, you have those like major dumps, you have those nuclear plants, et cetera, et cetera, which then contaminate the land and water. So even if you can grow, you have those additional health risks. So yeah, so that's a food swamp that is deliberately nutritious food versus a food desert where there is intentionally no food period. I'm gonna look up, this just made me think of I'm working on a project called The Invention of Seeds which is about the moment when seeds became in quote unquote, inventable, which has to do with the whole history of genetic engineering and GMO, all of the things. But I was recently in sort of doing some of the research for this project, I was listening to a podcast, which I'm gonna look up and put in the, or I'm gonna send it to Tara or something. I'll get it to you all. But it was a podcast which was, I think it was hosted by Emergence Magazine and the guest on the podcast was an indigenous seedkeeper and they were talking about our relationship to seeds and the sort of like driving through the Midwest of the US and like looking at these fields upon fields of corn and they just really, I want you all to listen to the podcast because I'm gonna butcher the story that they told about the sort of like looking at the fields of genetically modified corn and sort of thinking about how brokenhearted the seeds must be to be these sort of like tattered strands of seeds that don't know who they are anymore and don't know their relationship to the land. And this seedkeeper was talking about how, isn't it like, of course, this is what colonial capitalism, these are the kinds of seeds that we've made because aren't they a representation of the people on these lands who like don't know who they are anymore and don't know where they came from. And it just, like it just, it's so, the way of this way of thinking about relationship to seeds and land, so many of us I think have forgotten how to be in right relationship with things like food and seeds. So I'll find that podcast for you all and put it in the chat. And then I'll also voice that Quita is still here and listening and watching through Facebook. So she is with us. And then also at Claudia added is that supremacy culture creates a false narrative that all problems are those of the individual. It privatizes things that should belong to everyone. It encourages us to not care about our public space and each other and it blames us for the circumstances it creates in profits from. And to that, I say amen. But yeah, so are there any other thoughts? And Lisa's just dropped that in the chat. And so I will put that in the comment section for our Facebook friends. But yeah, is there anything else? Anybody has any other thoughts or things they wanna add? We also change gears, anything. I'm going to try to voice this. Would you say more about the ownership of one's own body? I totally get that the notion of possessive individualism is a capitalist colonializing force. But how does one have agency? Or is that just not even a good word? Is it having ownership over one's body part of being a responsible member of the whole? Did that make any sense? And Alisa, I'm gonna let you have the first crack at that one. Oh, well, I'm trying to make sure. I'm wondering, Susan, can you talk a little more? I just wanna make sure that I understand what you're getting at. Cause I have some ideas, but I'm not sure I'm fully grasping everything. The nuance is what you're talking about. Sure, so I was just really, I've been stunned by a bunch of this as if I just now know that my spirit actually is not here and is not here. So it's coming to questions and, but I was just kind of really thrown by Tara's statement that this ownership of one's body. Because when we think about people who are disempowered by all of these colonialist structures, it seems like we're often encouraged to find one's voice, to assert oneself and raise up others to raise their voice. So, but is individualism itself just not a useful way to have a right relation to the land? Tara, I'm wondering, since maybe this is stemming from something that you had talked about, if you wanna respond first, actually. Yeah, so I come from a people where the good of the community is more important than the ambition of one, the success of one, the wants of one. And so in this, so with your question, I think it's really wonderful to think about like your relationship to the land and if it can be individual. I personally believe it cannot be because I am not a soul floating around in the ether alone. I am connected to a very real community of folks here in Seminole Nation, here and where I live now in the big city, for Oklahoma anyway. My connection with groundwater, my connection with all my other theater folks, my connection with you all in our Zoom room right now. My connection with the land and the water and the air and the animals that I'm in proximity to. And so, you know, it's really interesting. I was on a panel a couple of weeks, I think last month about decentering the human from the climate justice conversation. And whenever that was asked to me, I had a very strong visceral response of like absolutely not, you cannot do that because we are equals and with in a part of every single moot, like every single element of this, it's very circular. But then I pause and I remember that white supremacy culture, capitalism teaches us that it's every man, woman, child, person for themselves, Darwin, social Darwinism, fuck that guy, that it's all very much about the one person, the one you working towards whatever those goals are. And that also makes them to your one unit, your one family, your one community. But it's a very like individualized culture and system and it's intentional. Like it goes back to the, you know, the one drop of royal blood that makes you higher than everyone else and gives you these positions of power. And then we see how that works in colonization with blood quantum as an example for native folks where just like horses, dogs and us are the only three things in the country that are registered with the federal government based on the amount of quote unquote blood that we have, which is all we don't get into today. And then the same thing when it comes to Jim Crow laws and how black folks were treated and continue to be treated in this country, that if you have one drop of African blood that makes you black, so therefore we can oppress you. And that it all, because again, it's all about who am I in relationship to other people around power? And can I, based on my sets of circumstances that many of which I cannot control and the ones I can control is is it because other people can't control it so then I can't, so that's how I can. Anyway, that's just absolutely no, you cannot work in any sort of communal relational way with that thinking, it's impossible because once you realize that your relations are also with the Arkansas River that has been polluted and plagued by all kinds of gross things for, oh my God, 60, 70 years, I cannot continue to operate as my own, like in my own individual interests when I have a communal interest and communal responsibility at that. But now where this gets tricky then, right, is like the ongoing colonization of people and specifically marginalized people and specifically BIPOC and disabled people. We see that around fat phobia because again, that has been again demonized and made to be folks faults when again, there's a variety of factors and also I love people live who gives a flu cares. We also see that in disability justice communities that blaming individuals for disabilities that they don't have any control over and it's now their fault. And then again, with the, with folks who live in these food deserts and food swamps, it is their fault that they are unhealthy. It is their fault they don't have access to lettuce. It's their fault if they develop these diseases or disabilities or conditions or if they are fat or if they are this, that or the other. Because again, it's the system being put in place to make folks not have the ability to have autonomy over their choices and bodies. But also the other side of that too is that we are in community and relationship with all of these different moving factors and pieces and people and things and places and animals, et cetera, et cetera. So I can't prioritize the me just like we cannot demonize the me for things that I don't have the control over. So I hope that answers it if anyone has anything to add. It was a lot, tried to put into one. Yes, and Cuita coming through on Facebook, added. One drop gives the oppressor more slaves and blood quantum makes fewer indigenous folks. The system works the way it was designed. Amen. That's, that's, that's, that's, that's added, just there. Are you here, Cuita? Did you leave? I'm here. It's very weird getting some sound through the phone and some through Facebook. So it's going back and forth. Okay, I'm just making sure if you have anything else to add. And then Claudia added in that supremacy culture is both genocidal and suicidal. I'll read it again, y'all. Supremacy culture is both genocidal and suicidal. Claudia also adds it denies it's deadly outcomes and everyone suffers when we are in right relation we're all healthier. Oh, Claudia dropping the wisdom as per usual. I don't know what I'm attaching this to but I'm thinking a lot about how white supremacy culture enforces assimilation and be like us, be like us, be like us. And then it's everyone for themselves. Like it's like, it's like this like such this like incredibly harmful pattern of erasure. And then, and then now that you're quote unquote in a candy you're really not, you're on your own. And it's like such an incredibly narcissistic like system that is, that like this country has been built upon. Yeah, and I think that Claudia Fraser really won't. She said it's genocidal and suicidal at the same time. Like it's doesn't, it doesn't, it's not logical in any way that it makes sense. Like it curls back and eats itself in a way that's really it's all about power which can only be held. And the number, right? We all know that the people who can have the power it's smaller and smaller and smaller. Like because more and more people can be excluded until really it's just the very, very smallest number possible who can have the most. This just made me think about the ways that the theater ecology sort of perpetuates this cycle as well, where it's like be like us be like the theater in New York, be like whoever be like Broadway, be like whatever the thing is that is deemed to be the most prestigious. It's like be like that. And then you work your whole career to be like that. And then you realize that like it's all still a competition and actually you're not part of a community you're all sort of like out on your own and you've shed any sort of like authenticity to your own creative practice so that you can gain some kind of like prestige or whatever the thing is. And I'm just like, we do this, we do this in theater. It's not just, I just wanna put a finer point on the fact that all of the sort of bigger systems that we're talking about that work in many sectors are also perpetuated all the time in the theater community. So if it sounds like we're talking in abstract it's very much not that. I mean, it's a culture of death, right? Like it's not right relationships to land in history is about life. And capitalism ultimately is an experiment in death. Not to get super bleak, but like... You just really say capitalism is an experiment in death? Wow. It is. Like if there was ever a reason that we need to move away from it we need to be in right relationship is because it's literally killing us. Yes, and also to uplift. Claudia has added brilliance from Charine. So thank you for that, Charine. And then also supremacy culture is a performance of assimilation and alienation. Yes, which spoiler y'all is colonization. It's exactly what that is. Wonderful. So I think we have about four-ish more minutes before we'll wrap up. So if there's anything that anyone wants to add or perhaps if I may ask a provocative question which is, okay, cool. So how do we get our big bosses upstairs in the institutions? Or if you are the big boss upstairs in the institution how can you get them to reconcile their history and begin this journey of education towards the right relationship to land in history? And we also all know it comes down to the boards and nonprofit industrial complex is a white supremacist structure. It's all terrible. But a question, what can we do? I don't put anybody on the spot while we're thinking but if we have to, I'll put Anna-Lisa. Wow, thanks, Tara. I mean, my being on the spot, like I would just direct people to and I think we'll drop the link in the chat as well to the Green New Theater document itself. There's some bullet points that were suggested by the team that wrote this particular section on right relationship to land in history. And it's like good starting places in terms of where to sort of put energy toward. And many of those we've already talked about but just to say some of them, just to reiterate some of those are expanding the definition of community to include things like the plants and the sky and bodies of water deliberately acknowledging and working actively toward the reversal of community erasure both past immediate and community care and accepting responsibility for taking space as an organization, both physically and mentally within the communities that we work in. There's a bunch of other things that are in that document but just to name a few things. Yeah, how's that, Tara? Did I kind of do it? That's good, anybody else, any other thoughts? Well, I think, Tara, you said it really well when you talk that we can't reconcile. There's never been a peaceful, a peace to go back to. We have to reconcile. So I think one thing theaters and institutions can think about is how to start consiling. And is that we, not just Googling and writing a land acknowledgement from what you find on Google but actually talking to the native communities where you are and who are they, what are they doing? They exist. So hit them up, but in a respectful way. Well, but that's, you sort of like said that tongue in cheek a little bit, but in a respectful way, Anna, but like I just wanna underline that because because of the sort of like empty land narratives and myth of the wilderness and all of this nonsense that has existed for so long, theaters don't often realize that they are in relationship with native people right now. And in fact, it's very possible and likely that that relationship is not good. So I'm like, you can't just go to people that have been harmed for decades and be like, now we wanna be friends and expect to be good. Yeah, so yeah, I think it requires humility, like immense, immense humility when trying to consile for the first time. Yeah, you know, that's really, really wonderful. I mean, cause we didn't talk much about land acknowledgments today, but I think a land acknowledgement is a wonderful step, one of the first steps, I wouldn't say the first one, but a wonderful one to explore in that first of all, all native people don't feel the same about land acknowledgments. There are many people who grossly, grossly hate them and refuse to do them. There are many native people who don't give land acknowledgments because they're like, these are my lands, why do I need to acknowledge them when I do every day? And then there are also other folks and I fall into this bucket in the majority of the time. That is the basic education in the United States for native people. Like the bar is underground, just for just how gross it has been and how lacking, that something like saying, our theater is on like Piscataway Land as an example is so radicalizing for so many people, which in the grand scheme of things makes my heart very sad, but that it is a moment of education for folks to realize that native people aren't all dead as I've been asked to my face many a times and that they are still here and very active. And then with that, well, also say is words without the actions mean nothing. So if you're not going to do any sort of actions to build meaningful relationships with the indigenous people who are on those lands, don't do a land acknowledgement period and maybe super cool and super woke, but don't do it. And same thing with that is taking the amount of time it takes to actually craft a meaningful, active, accurate land acknowledgement in relationship with the native people first and take the time you need. Because I also know that right now, a lot of theaters are feeling this pressure, especially through the We See You American Theater movement to do the right things now. Like we need to do a land acknowledgement right now. And in that hurried need, we are losing so much authenticity and respect and purpose of why we do it in the first place. And so what I would just offer is that it is not a marathon, I mean, it's not a sprint, it's also not a marathon. It's a lifelong journey and the time you start is the right time and the pace you go is the right pace. Because speaking for I, my little lonesome, I would prefer that theaters take the time to do it right and well. That theaters also have the humility to make mistakes and be okay with that. Versus theaters who're trying to jump on the bandwagon so they don't get exposed or get canceled or get put in a yearbook. I would rather folks do that first personally. Yeah, but that's just one thing. I mean, we have so many things say about land acknowledgements like, y'all look on Groundwater Festival page, we talk about it a lot. There's so many other resources, so many amazing indigenous people who have different thoughts, different insights. Speak to elders, those are the people you need to talk to. Especially, anyway, but there's just so much support and again, to reiterate from earlier, no one is alone in this work. No one is creating anything new in this work. This is a very communal path forward. Great, and with that, should I read our last little thing? Are we done tonight? All right, well, thank you all for taking the time and making space to be with us, both in Zoom and on Facebook, and with each other today. And a huge, huge thank you to our friends at HowlRound, and Nifa, and the Queen of Sullivan for the support during this fifth chapter of the Green New Theater 2020. Big thanks to our ASL interpreters and our captioner for today. I tried so hard to speak slow and I really hope I did. It takes an entire village to make this series happen. So we already mentioned that this is the fifth chapter of a series of Green New Theater Calls, and we would really appreciate feedback from y'all. Our goal with these calls is to create a low stress, generative space for relationship building and connection across the field about what a Green New Theater could look like. So if you have a moment to email us at groundwaterarts at gmail.com with any feedback on the format of the session, what worked for you, what didn't, what you think you could do better, or what you love to experience in a future Green New Theater Call, we would love it. So the sixth chapter, which is our next to last chapter, how, but it is, will take place on January 13th, 2021 at 7 p.m. Eastern time, and we will cover immediate divestment from fossil fuels. Y'all come back and it's gonna snap and I'm ready. And it'll be a wonderful way to start the new year. And after that call on January 13th, in February with producers hub, we'll have our final call, which will just be a summation of everything that we've learned and some really cool things. So stay tuned for that too. And if you'd like to stay in touch with us, again, you can email us at groundwaterarts at gmail.com. You can follow us on Facebook and Instagram. And also you can check out our beautiful new website. Thank you so much to Anna. We cannot give Anna enough praise at groundwaterarts.com. And so with that, y'all, thanks. Enjoy your evenings. Madone.