 Yeah, we're glad to know you're still there. Right now, we'll be talking with Mr. Abraham Great, a public affairs analyst, and we're looking at the fact that a new report has listed top states with poor internally generated revenue. Mr. Great, good morning, and welcome to the program. Good morning, and thank you for having me. We have 36 states and the federal capital territory, which almost is a state because it operates like a state almost. But we've seen from the report that came out that some of these states, if they were not going to Abuja every month to go and get revenue cap in hand, they wouldn't survive because of the kind of internally generated revenue that we see from that state. Let's start with how you see that report and how you place that against the viability of these states. I mean, reading the report, I was quite perturbed to see some of the state that, I mean, if you have 36 states in the country, one state would always be the highest performing state, you know, there will be states that, you know, year in year out might be at the bottom, depending on the positioning of the state, the resources that are available for the states to become viable. But to see states like BIALS becoming nearly insolvent is quite pathetic, is disturbing, is damning. You know, I don't know how we got into a state that, one of the states that produced a golden flag for the country can be in such a state that it's almost insolvent. And that states a lot to us about the way we look at the economy of our country. It means that the natural resources that has been generated in states like BIALS are maybe the sole focus of that state. Maybe that's where the stakeholders of that state put most of their head, you know, like it's being said, don't put your head in one basket. But it's also not as damning as the report may say, because it also presents us an opportunity to be able to review governance in the country. You know, up till this moment, you know, what will be happening in most of the states or politically we've been having in Nigeria is people buying for offices, like executive offices, with no corporate governance experience, with no business experience per se. You know, people feel entitled that, look, I've been part of this state for long, or I'm a child of this state, I'm an indigent of this state, I'm going to make money, I'm going to spend money on politics, and I'm going to become the executive governor. You know, with zero, you know, private sector, public governance experience, we're able to know how to generate revenue, how to develop the, you know, human capital in that state. So we are at the very crucial stage in our country where every state has to really improve on what they are, you know, generating internally. Well, I don't know. You know, another state that surprised me, you just mentioned by Elsa, it's a quibomb state. We saw the internally generated revenue from a quibomb state, and it was nothing to write home about, but they are some of the highest earners from the Federation account, you know. So is it an attribute of lack of innovation on the part of the successive governors, or it's a product of the oil that comes from their land, destroying the kind of businesses that they could have done. For instance, in Bielsa State, they are a fishing tribe, and they can't do that because of the oil spills and all those kind of things. So where do you get tax from? Where do you get money from when the people cannot do what they are naturally supposed to be doing? So what would you attribute this to? Would you attribute it to lack of innovation or the destruction of their livelihood in those states? First, you must realize that to succeed, you have to turn excuses into solution. You know, every problem within every problem is a solution. So to keep staring at the problem and to keep talking about the problem is to magnify the problem and the problem is not going to go away. A problem that keeps staring at you is telling you that inherent within it is a solution. So what you need is you need minds to come together. You need a mastermind of the best of the minds in that state to be able to see how. You know, the case study of Lagos is a very good example for us. What is the viability of Lagos before 1999? You know, a lot of people will say, oh, look at, you know, develop Lagos or what have you. I mean, I was born, raised in Lagos, and I understand, I see, yes, but it's time that I would be getting into democracy. I was no longer living in the country, you know, in 1999, but I came a lot into the country from that time into the year I was there for the inauguration and stuff even in 1999. So I'm always back in Nigeria. And I see that the tribulation that Lagos faced at the time, you know, after the military rule and federal location was withheld at some point, it made the state to become creative to realize that every state that must, that must prosper, that must succeed, must understand how to crack the code of tax, public tax, individual tax. No, you look at countries that we all celebrate today. You look at the United Kingdom, for example, what natural resources does the United Kingdom got? The United Kingdom hasn't got gold, they haven't got crude oil, they haven't got lithium, they haven't got most of what we at each of our states have. But one thing that the state and the country generate income on is taxes. You know, Nigeria has to, I don't know how we, maybe they have to put all the governors together or maybe each party, every party, every major party in the country has to do more in developing its candidate. Number one in identifying the right candidate that have the right relevant experience to be able to help that state to become economically viable. Not just people vying for position and will occupy it and just be waiting for the federal revenue to come in. Also, federal government has a part in this also to help some of those states to develop infrastructures, to develop human capital within that state, to help that state to be able to improve on their internally generated revenue. Now, sometimes, this is what I found in the case of Nigeria. Sometimes those revenue are there, but due to corruption, they are locked within the state within a few ends. So this also, I think Nigeria just need to go into full automation. What do you mean full automation? Okay, again, going back to the case study of Lagos, one of the things that you see that the governor, who is now the president of the country, is that he brought in Oracle into the country and then all the federal agencies, every Parastata became fully automated. So you will still find that there are agencies in some states that the revenues are being kept within that sector, within that agency. You still see that in some sector, money is still crossing into individual and we need to go into full automation where the revenue collection of each state or each local government is seamlessly going through a process that directly, as you know what I mean, we do less of cash and the system goes through an automated system. Number one, to become scientific, it helps for planning. They will be able to have at least a quantitative analysis of where we are. Everything that you can turn into science, you can simulate for growth and you can check for the future. Okay. Well, you get my point there. Yes, I do. I do get your point, but you did mention something about corruption and I don't know how it is going to go away. Everything is tied to corruption now. If you were president, just before we wrap up, if you were president, what would you do to stem corruption? Corruption has been a thing that we have. First of all, I would say that corruption is everywhere. The intention of the federal government, the federal government must be intentional about the federal character. And some of these things, you know, I support the current government but I also must warn about the optics of the government because sometimes the way we portray ourselves as government affects the way we raise people in the country. I give you an example. When politicians are flamboyant, it gives an impression of how a human being should be in that country. In Nigeria, an average person or a successful person is seen with four. Some people have 20 cars. So an average person that is growing up from primaries to secondaries to think that they are not successful until they have two or three cars. You must have a Mercedes. You must have a Lexus. You must have these. Our definition of what success is must be redefined. That's one. And number two is that there must be transparency. If you look at what is going on right now in Nigeria, even if government doesn't want to be transparent, people are forcing hard because people are going into the account of the state, of the federal government, of the different agencies. People are scrutinizing budgets at this point. So before we get to that point where everything is becoming porous, I think government, both on the federal level and on the state level, must be transparent. And I'm going to give the coupons again to states like Lagos state. You may criticize Lagos for items on the budget. And they are reporting. But the fact that they are making this reporting available is a step in the right direction. And now they now know that all eyes are on these items, you realize that things will start getting better and better. The same thing, the Senate has to be quite transparent. We have all known for many years that Nigerians call the fiscal budget. It's a national cake. When we talk about the national cake syndrome in Nigeria, what you're talking about is the size of the budget. The Nigerian budget is like a cake that we bake once or twice in a year. And what you have is that you have individuals who are experts in cutting this cake. So each person comes to the table with a knife and a plate to take what is there. And that is through procurement. So our procurement act needs to go through completely. I mean, I want to complete it. We need to overhaul the procurement act. But we also have to, in a streamlined procurement, automate and ensure performance. Thank you very much. Transparency is very important. And making sure that we do the right thing at all times. Thank you so much, Ibrahim. Great for coming on the show. It's unfortunate this is where we have to wrap up this morning. It's really a privilege. Thank you for having me. Thank you. We've been talking with Ibrahim, a great public affairs analyst who has joined us this morning. We're going to draw the curtain here and take the news at 9 o'clock until we meet again tomorrow. I'd like to say it was a pleasure being with you. My name is Nyam Ghul. I'll catch you by for now.