 Okay, everyone I'm about to start the webinar is one o'clock. Once I started, I'm giving like about 30 to 45 seconds. And once I take the webinar, the title slide off, they don't give it like about, I'm sorry, giving 30, 45 seconds for everyone to join. Then once I stop the sharing of the screen of the title slide, then we can roll into the intro. Great, thank you. Anytime. Okay, we're good to go. Everyone, welcome. We're just going to wait a few more minutes for more attendees to join us. All right. Good afternoon, everyone, my name is Ethoma Ebo founder and principal of creative urban alchemy and equitable urban design and spatial justice practice. And I'm zooming in from the unseated lands of the Lenape people, also known as Brooklyn, New York. We've joined together to take a deep dive into Brownsville, Brooklyn. As a native New Yorker, I have many fond memories of visiting friends in Brownsville and I'm really excited to moderate this discussion this discussion today between two longtime residents and activists in the community there. Before I introduce the panelists, I want to share a bit of context for this discussion. So I'm going to share my screen. Can you see my screen. You can thank you. Okay, great. All right, so this is a map of Brownsville, Brooklyn. It's a historic African American neighborhood located in East Brooklyn Community District six. According to the 2010 census Ocean Hill slash Brownsville is home to 90 over 90,000 people, a majority of whom are African Americans, Caribbean Americans and Latinos. According to the NYC department of city planning statement of community district needs and community board budget requests, the three most pressing issues facing this community board were and are affordable housing, health care services and youth and children services. In light of the inequities that resurfaced during the pandemic, it is clear why this is one of the communities that was harvested. At its inception, it was a Jewish neighborhood that underwent dramatic changes after World War two, as inner cities across the country were experiencing white life. African Americans from other neighborhoods began moving into the area for the next 20 years Brownsville is plagued by the decay old and abandoned buildings as well as by vandalism and arson. High rise apartment buildings constructed in Brownsville during the 1950s and 60s were intended to provide affordable attractive housing. Instead, they led Brownsville to become even more overcrowded and impoverished. Finally in the 1970s, a combination of efforts began to revitalize the community. Local residents and merchants banded together to ease racial tensions in the neighborhood to fight for affordable housing and to create services for the neighborhoods young and old residents. This marks the advent of a long history and legacy of grassroots efforts in Brownsville by the African American community, striving for better quality living environments. Brownsville is also another side of Brownsville is that it's a neighborhood and with district with distinct and vibrant cultures and a network of individuals and organizations that are working in innovative ways to strengthen their community. It's a family oriented neighborhood has a unique spirit of creativity, entrepreneurship, resilience and pride in history and place. In addition to active social service and community based organization Brownsville's home to a multitude of community gardens and urban farms, small locally owned businesses and dozens of murals largely painted and designed by neighborhood youth. So now we bring we come to the Brownsville plan that was initiated after numerous community driven initiatives in Brownsville. It was meant to be a convener of top down and bottom up efforts in the community, a form of coordination of the many intended initiatives and transformations in this neighborhood for years to come. This year long plan process brought together over 20 government agencies, 30 community based organizations and nearly 500 residents to identify neighborhood priorities, set goals and form strategies to achieve them. Building on significant planning work already completed by community HPD's use its neighborhood planning playbook as a guide to ensure the process was inclusive and transparent. In 2014 Brownsville 100 days to progress initiative, which spurred short term projects from a variety of city agencies. The Department of Housing Preservation and Development in New York City launched a community based planning process in the summer of 2016 to develop a shared vision and plan for the future of Brownsville, working with residents elected officials organizations and other government agencies HPD hosted a series of public workshops implemented an online engagement tool and participated in community events. The plan coordinated over 150 million in neighborhood investments, including improvements to Brownsville parks, the New York City Housing Authority developments and surrounding streets, a new community center for teens at Brownsville houses and a new neighborhood health action center. Much of this work will be completed or underway within the next five years, or has been completed already. So we want to have a conversation today between these two amazing women in Brownsville, who happen who, and we want to talk about what happens when grassroots efforts driven by community meet top down efforts driven by government. Is it a seamless process for all stakeholders. Do all feel empowered in this process and does implementation live up to the ideals and visions created in the plan. We are going to get down to the bottom of this and so much more. First, I want to introduce to you, Janice T. Morgan, a native of Brooklyn, New York, and the chairperson of the Brooklyn Community Board 16, which serves the Ocean Hill Brownsville neighborhood of New York City. She's a graduate of Clark Atlanta University and holds both a Bachelor of Arts and Master of Arts degree in accounting. Her account experience spans 20 years includes work in the private public nonprofit and academia sectors. She currently serves a senior project and business manager of the Brownsville Community Development Corporation as a long standing member of Community Board 16 economic development community. She has been a strong advocate for local workforce development small business services and MWB opportunities. Another panelist is Torian C. Lewis, a community engagement specialist, a lifelong resident of Brownsville and former participant of the Brownsville partnership. Torian worked with staff to prevent her eviction and overcome her housing prices. She has 20 plus years of community organizing experience, and as a proactive results driven empathetic and dedicated community organizer with a deep passion for racial and economic justice and a determination to enact positive change through grassroots collective action. First we'll hear from Janice who will present some words and then we'll hear from Torian and then we'll dig into some Q&A. Just to make you all aware, the Q&A button is live and active and if you have any questions throughout the event, please feel free to post your questions in the Q&A function. And I will certainly look to them to ask some of the questions of the panelists. Janice, over to you. Hi. Good morning. Well, good afternoon. And thank you all for having me here this afternoon to join this discussion. I'm always happy to share about the work that we are doing locally and really, you know, demonstrate how local, hyper local individuals have been involved in the work and lead in the work and also to, you know, just let folks know that this isn't a process that happens overnight. It actually, it has been going on for quite some time, and we've been building on the conversations that have been happening over the years and so we're able to have this conversation today because of, you know, consistent commitment to the the desires of the folks that live in the Ocean Hill Brownsville community. And without that level of consistent involvement and without the perspectives of the local residents, the work isn't meaningful. And so I think that a lot of what we're talking about when it comes to the Brownsville plan and other investments by other city and state and federal agencies in the Brownsville community. It is definitely as a result of that level of commitment. Awesome. Thank you. So I'll pass it over to Torian who will also share some words. I definitely echo what Janice has said. This, this, this iteration of the Brownsville plan has had a really big impact on the Brownsville community, especially from the residents perspective, because it's given us a sense of not just a tighter community, but a sense of success and and equality as far as like the landscape goes because, you know, Brownsville has been so disinvested in, and, you know, the community, it just doesn't look like other communities look at first the right. So we have a lot of vacant lots. But as part of this Brownsville plan, you know, those vacant lots are going to soon be housing for folks who, you know, who may have probably been in the shelter system for a long time or they live in double housing for, you know, in those types of situations. So, you know, in hearing all the voices and feedback from the city agencies and residents, it's definitely had a big impact. And it's still a work in progress. Absolutely. Thank you, Janice and Torian. It's great to just hear your perspective, both of you on the Brownsville plan. And so I want to really just start first speak to you, Janice, you know, your position in the community board and being very instrumental in creating that connection between, you know, the community and tremendous amount of work that the community had done up until that point, up until 2016, and then also connecting with government initiatives and efforts. So what do, in your opinion, what was that process like if you could talk a bit about just what was the spark that led to this planning initiative? So I guess the planning that happened by the local residents that preceded the Brownsville plan and helped to inform the Brownsville plan was actually as a result of government not responding to our local needs at the time. And so, you know, just going back, you know, a little over a decade ago, it's interesting that we're kind of in the same position right now with New York State government where there was a transition and leadership there because that was the same thing that had happened, you know, over a decade ago. And we found ourselves as a community with challenges and in limbo because there was not really an administration with the definitive plan to address the needs of the community at that time. And so as a result, we were like, hey, well, I guess we're on our own. And so we reached out and utilized our resources and academia to begin the planning process. And so we started with Hunter College and Pratt Institute. And so they were the first ones to really help us to begin this planning process. And as a result, we were able to develop three plans prior to the Brownsville plan, one on public housing, one on health, and one on economic development. And so by the time we got to the Brownsville plan, we already had a lot of ideas, and it really helped to guide the process of having the conversations with city planning and HPD and local residents because we kind of had already, you know, had those discussions and we were able to use the prior conversations and the prior planning as a guide and kind of do a check on if the conversations with HPD were truly productive and reflective of what the community had said previously. And, you know, as we continue to talk, I can share more about, you know, that process and what happened along the way. Now that's so fascinating that you've introduced that academia was very much involved in supporting community and sort of meshing together and bringing together some of its own ideas and visions for the community before government was even involved. And I think that's an important point to highlight here, particularly as you know this is Columbia University coordinating this event, and there are many students who are watching this event right now. And I think it really is, it can be empowering for students to understand that they also, they can be a part, even though you're in a process of studying right now, that you can be a part of work happening in the city to support communities as a form of justice as a form of really providing the capacity needed for communities to advocate for themselves and I think that is really powerful the role that academia can play in that work so thank you so much for bringing up that point. I'd love for you to hear from Eugenie. I'm sorry, Torian, because you've expressed that you are right at the middle between that bottom up work in the top down work you mentioned before that you're right at the top of that that grassroots effort, and right at the bottom of that top movement effort and I would love to hear from you to talk a bit more about what that looks like. How does it, what does that role look like at that hinge point. So, like how I, I joked around yesterday, I'm sort of the middle kid. I'm not old enough to play with the older siblings, but a little bit too mature for the younger siblings. And so, like, you know, like you explained I'm right in the middle, and where that meets is, I get to ride the proverbial fence. Right, so I'm, I'm a grassroots leader. I'm a resident. I'm in the community, and I'm working with residents and I'm talking with residents and you know helping residents to you know develop as leaders themselves. But I'm also employed by one of the nonprofit organizations that are really deeply involved in the work. And so I get to see things from that perspective as well. And so I get to sit in on meetings with government agencies and I'm learning, you know, how they work. Right, so I'm sitting in meetings with HPD and I'm hearing about all of the different plans and policies that are going into ensuring that, you know, our communities are getting the services that they need. Right, that, you know, the Department of Buildings is, you know, they're doing their part so I get to hear, you know, what their part is and I get to hear what HPD is doing. And then I'm also a part of the development team for one of the projects that's coming out of the Brownsville plan. And so I get to hear all about that work too, like I had no idea around, you know, building codes and zoning and all of that stuff. And so now I'm really getting to learn that stuff and I wouldn't otherwise be able to if I wasn't at that sweet spot, so to speak. You weren't brought to the table because of your role in the community and your longstanding presence in the community as well. It's really important. Thank you so much. I'd love to hear from Denise as well just your position on the Community Board and how important that was to this process as well as just like brokering this conversation between community and government. So it's really important because as you all know, the Community Board meets monthly, the months of September through June. The Community Board really is the gatekeeper and it's the place that is always assembled for residents in the community to bring their concerns. So, you know, our doors and, you know, our ears are always open to hear about the things that are affecting the community and the things that we want to see. And we have, you know, all of these different relationships with different city agencies and liaisons from city agencies. And so we don't have to always wait for, you know, some process or planning process from HPD like the Brownsville plan or, you know, like some of the other plans and development plans that were also started by like other levels of government. The city, the Community Board is there to work on plans and come up with ideas from a grassroots level every day, you know, and even during the summer we don't meet over the summer but that doesn't mean that our work ends. Our district manager and their staff, they're there year round, five days a week, you know, eight hours a day and, you know, they live, they work in the community and so anything that you may see a pothole, a streetlight out, you know, all those are things that were part of the plan, the Brownsville plan as well, but we have a process for how we address those issues on a day-to-day basis. And so as a chairperson who lives in the community, works in the community, does a lot of volunteer work in the community, I pretty much spend 24 hours a day in the community, except for the days when, you know, I step out for whatever reason. You know, really try to keep close tabs on what's affecting the quality of life of the people who live in our community and really try to encourage them and empower them to speak up on a day-to-day basis to solve the issues because a lot of the things that are not fixed is not as a result of a lack of resources to fix them. It's a lack of knowing, you know, from the city agencies and, you know, at the community board. You know, the mayor only knows what's in, what's happening in our community if we tell him because he doesn't live in Brownsville, right? So, but if we begin to raise the issue and let him know that we're watching and we're holding him accountable to what it is that we know we're deserving and the level of services in our community should be equal to what exists around the city, then he's going to be responsive. And so that is what needs to occur on a day-to-day basis and then that is what actually gets a plan like the Brownsville plan to really be addressed, right? Because planning is one thing, implementation is another. And I think what we have experienced in Brownsville is lots of planning and not so much implementation. And so the Brownsville plan is being implemented. And I think that is what's being what's exciting that we're able to touch and feel the things that we talked about as a result of the Brownsville plan. That's awesome. And so I'd love to hear from both of your perspectives. You know, Janice, you are self coming from the community board, which is a form of governance within the community. And Torian, your position working for Brownsville partnership, which is more grassroots. What has been the impact thus far since the completion of this plan from both of your perspectives and starting with you Torian? Like what are your thoughts on since it's been, you know, all the planning work has been complete and perhaps even some of the work has been implemented. What has been the impact? What have you heard so far from people? So I want to say that it has, like I said before, it has had a really big impact on the community. And like Janice said, you know, people can now see, you know, they're starting to see all the things that have been discussed around what we want to see, what we need and how I, you know, we feel that our needs should be being met. And, you know, people are starting to see that, right, whether they're attending, you know, community board meetings, or they're a part of a group that I'm a part of called the Brownsville Neighborhood Empowerment Network. If they're, you know, attending our meetings, or even if they're just following, you know, one or more organizations throughout the community on social media, you know, they're starting to see and actually feel that something is being done. Right. It's not just a bunch of talk anymore. Right. And what makes, what makes the impact of the Brownsville plan so special is that we've had those who are being the most impacted by all of this at the table. Right. Their voices are being heard. It's not just some random people from the community that, you know, they may not live in the community, they may just work in the community, you know, saying, Well, this is what I've heard and that's what I've heard. And so I think that this this and that should be done. No, it's the people who live, work, play, go to school, right here in this community, right, they have to get up every day and walk the streets of Brownsville. And we're starting to see the housing developments, you know, the affordable housing go up. And we're starting to see new businesses move into the community along the Belmont Avenue corridor. Right. And we know, we know that this is just the beginning. More is to come. And so people are hopeful. Right. And I know what I'm about to say, Janice will agree we have this saying in Brownsville and I think it started with Mr. Jackson, that hope is inside. And people are really starting to feel that hope is inside of Brownsville. Right. And it's coming from inside of Brownsville, not someone from outside bringing the hope in. That's so awesome. I'm encouraging to that a plan can, you know, built off of tremendous grassroots efforts can support capacity building that it can be empowering. And it's that it's not depleting. And it doesn't, you know, bring about planning fatigue, which we know, sort of like in the industry, that's what you hear a lot is that their communities that are just like they're exhausted, exhausted from constant meetings and not seeing any fruit, as you mentioned, Janice, myself, I've worked in Brownsville in a number of different ways. I've done a lot of community oriented work around cultural preservation, culture conservation with the Brownsville with the black space urbanist collective. I also worked as a representative of government working for the mayor's office of criminal justice, implementing place making projects and activation projects in Brownsville and collaboration with the Brownsville Community Justice Center. So, Tori, a lot of the work that you're talking about in terms of community groups feeling empowered and really especially that that work around Belmont Avenue as like an incubator for a number of different different ideas and and innovations has really been amazing to see an experience that this is not just any old community. It's a community that has had a significant amount of strength, because without that strength, the Brownsville plan wouldn't have been able to be implemented and starting to be implemented in the way that it has been so far. I think it's it's it's also it's a combination of just like, you know, the amazing amount of willpower and innovation that already existed in Brownsville that could be sort of like a great foundation for a something like a Brownsville plan to be to be created, and to be sort of like in the beginning so far be successful, that it's really just like I think it's a testament to just this the strength and uniqueness of Brownsville. So I would love to hear from you, Janice, what are you hearing so far from, you know, your fellow members of the Community Board are just like things that you're hearing thus far and implementation of the plan. Yeah, I just love to hear from you and just the sentiments on progress. So, so the Community Board, because of its involvement in in the plan during the planning process and to ensure that there was, you know, continuity and the communication with those that we worked with during the planning process as well as those who may not have been a part of the planning process but found out about it later may have read the final document, the Community Board actually works with HPD to reconvene all of those stakeholders on a semi annual basis. Obviously, the pandemic has caused that schedule to shift a little bit, but we've still been able to do those reconvening via virtual space and so we've been, you know, hearing from folks in the community as, you know, often at least in my opinion, if not, you know, when something may not, you know, sit well with them or they have a thought, or someone may say, Oh, you know, there's, you know, this issue with this lot or something like that and then we're able to say, Well, you know, this lot is a part of this plan and you know, two to five years or so, you know, there's going to be a lot of change there, but most people are, you know, happy to hear the updates and to see the progress that is being that is resulting from all the different areas of the plan. But then there are some folks right who are like, you know, I've never heard of this this is the first time that I've heard of this so you know when did this happen and you know everybody's not necessarily happy and you know one thing about a plan is sometimes even based on what the environment is at the time right that you were having the conversation but then there's all these other things that sometimes happen after the plan like, unfortunately, COVID-19 happened after the Brownsville plan and so now we have to take into consideration, all of the things that we did during this process. And so anything that has not already been implemented as a result of the plan. How do we now factor in, you know, the safety protocols and everything that we've learned as a result of COVID-19 so what we have done and what we did during the COVID-19 pandemic is utilized one of our stakeholder groups around health and wellness to convene folks in the community around COVID-19 and that was also another way for us to continue to hear from our community residents continue to join forces. One thing that has resulted also as a result of the Brownsville plan, I think that we are better organized in terms of organizations, you know, we kind of any differences that we may have had as organizations, you know, we rose to the occasion of knowing that we had to learn to work together in a comprehensive way because what we are all trying to accomplish can't be accomplished if we don't organize ourselves into proper coalitions because a lot of times there's resources that only a coalition, an organized group of organizations in a community demonstrating a well organized and thought out plan in a process to execute it can bring down the big bucks for our community and so we're very mindful of the need to work together in order to ensure that the Brownsville plan, you know, it materializes in the community as well as us bringing down, you know, more operational resources for our organizations to continue to do the work because the work, the well can run dry on some of the resources and what we never ever want to see again is the disinvestment that occurred prior to the Brownsville plan and the Hunter plans and everything. So fascinating that you bring up just this connection between planning efforts and it's strengthening existing networks in a community and I think that's an important point to highlight, because planning at times can feel just so like paperwork and you're just tossing paper for one place to another but really, it can be empowering it can be, you know, it can support capacity it can really ignite existing fabric of a community to step up, you know, a bit more but then have the resources in order to do so. And you know, and so I think that's such a just an important point for particularly students were studying planning for them to understand the breath of what the impact that their work can have and how important that is and also to be cognizant of that as your planning that you know you want to bring in as many organizations and leaders as possible into the poll because that's a form of capacity building. That's a form of advocacy that's a form of strengthening and supporting a foundation being built and established in a community. And so I would love to just like as a springboard off of that conversation Tori and I'd love to hear from you. What have you seen. How have you seen organizations entities like community groups leverage the work of the plan to spark new community oriented initiatives like what kind of new initiatives and projects are you seeing that community groups are doing I already know this of a few and I'll mention a few after you speak but I'd love to hear from you just like, you know, being there every day. What are you seeing on the ground. Well, I can speak from from my organizational point of view. So my particular organization the Brownsville partnership. As part of what we're doing out of the Brownsville plan. We have an emerging community land trust. Yeah, and I am the chief administrative officer for the advisory committee which is the organization that I mentioned earlier. The Brownsville neighborhood empowerment network. And we, you know, we've been working with the developers who are on our project to host a stakeholder engagement series, right to gonna feedback from the community. But I've also seen some other groups in the community like elite learners and you know they've been doing they've really been quote unquote doing their thing in the community right so during the pan you know during quarantine. Last year I think when we first came out during I think it was phase one or phase two. You know, they were here in the community every day and they were handing out boxes of food to residents. And you know when school time came they were you know given out book bags and such and you know the organization that I work for Brownsville partnership they've also been doing the same thing on a weekly basis, giving out food to residents who are food insecure and I also helped to co design another initiative in the community called gather for Brownsville in which we have recruited teams of neighbors to lean on each other and support each other in, you know, in this time of need. And, and it's been really really successful. Right, it's sort of like what I like to call putting the village back right there's that you know there's that saying it takes a village to raise a child. Well in these days and times it takes a village just to take care of the village. Right, that includes the children this seniors and everyone in between. So I've really started to see not just the organizations in the community come together and work together, but also the residents themselves, just supporting each other. You know, creating childcare co ops to watch after each other's children while you know they have to go out and take care of business. You know, things of that nature I've seen people start their own businesses, you know, just on the street corner set up a table and start grilling on the grill and, you know, start their own businesses so. And, you know, I believe one of them, I know for sure is working with CB EDC. And so that's kind of like that grassroots to the tip kind of work that I was describing to you yesterday and that's what's going on all around the community. That is so fascinating because everything you're talking about is really about power building. And, and really I can see the way you're talking about it sounds like power is shifting that community entrepreneurs are being crafted and and existing business owners are able to sort of like use this as a springboard like imagine just the fruit that's going to come out of this process as years come along to be more there be more strength in the local economics of the community that is really driven by by people who have lived there and that's exciting. It's exciting to be able to watch this in real time. It's exciting to have, you know, power brokers like the two of you, as a part of that process, as you know women black women who are champions, and at the forefront of this planning process. I want to just hear from from Eugenie's. You know you talked before about the roots of the community and talked also about the significant amount of work that was done. You know leveraging the leveraging the support of academia that was that was done by by community already planning processes. So how do you think this plan, this final plan reflects the roots of the community. That's the first question and the second, you'd also mentioned before that many of the government representatives that were part of the plant the planning process from HPB our agencies have shifted myself I was working for the mayor's office at the time and I'm no longer doing that. And so what is it like to what has been the impact of the shifting representation of government partners like you know one person steps out another person steps in but then they have to learn everything from scratch. What has been the impact of the shifting representation of government partners in this planning and implementation work so that's two questions. One is about the roots of the community and how to reflect it in the plan. And the second question is the shifting representation of government partners and its impact on planning implementation. So, I'm glad that Torian mentioned central broken EDC so when we talk about the roots of, you know, the community and the plan central broken EDC is, I believe they are a 40 or 50 year I want to say they may have just recently celebrated a 50 year anniversary. So that's a long standing historic organization that was created to address, you know, the economic development needs of the community. They are also a part of the glimmer manner project which was one of the sites that were awarded as a part of the Brownsville plan. And that particular site is being developed by an MWB developer. It also includes a number of African American business owners black and African American and Caribbean business owners. One of them are women, it addresses the need for sit down eateries in our community which have been lacking. It's going to have the Brooklyn Cooperative Federal Credit Union there which addresses the need for more banking opportunities for residents in the community. During the planning process, there was a point when HPD came to us and said, you know, here's the update about, you know, what we've already heard so far. And we were like, and it was kind of like a little bit of a draft of, you know, like here's where we're going and we were like, No, this doesn't look like what we discussed and, you know, what our expectations were and so we came together as a board. We wrote a letter to Vicki Bean who was the commissioner of HPD at the time. We had a separate meeting to discuss and to advocate for what we thought was going to be appropriate and how this planning process should wrap up. And as a result of those conversations we ensured because there had been a lack of MWB developers in our community, most of developers didn't look like us. And so we made sure to underscore how important it was to include MWB developers and hyper local organizations as a part of the plan. And so when the RFP process came out, local organizations, you know, they coordinated with the different developers that were going to be submitting proposals. And many of the proposals came in and came out in a very thoughtful way. They included many of the hyper local organizations who may have had challenges with space and, you know, and, you know, real estate to deliver their services in a better way to the community. And so all of that conversation and the awards that resulted in the community that have hyper local organizations, in my opinion, are reflective of the roots and are as reflective of those who have for many, many years invested their time their energy. You know, they're, you know, they've raised families in this community and so they're invested in the longevity of the community they're not just going to drain the resources from the community, but they're there to continue to plan a harvest that can lead the succession planning of all of these projects can develop and show the youth in the community that whatever their interest and passions are that they don't have to go outside of their community to find them that the infrastructure has been set up in their community and there's historical context or, you know, behind them right so it wasn't just done in 2023 or 25 when these buildings were erected, this is just a new home of a lot of these services, and it also shows them that the advocacy of their grandparents of their grandparents live on and very obvious ways in our community. So I think that's really important in terms of the roots. And I think the other question you had was, can you remind me of the other question. The other question was about shifting representation representation. So honestly, I think the shifting representation hasn't really been an issue from it hasn't been because we were so adamant out making sure that a lot of these processes included involvement of local leaders. And I felt like we as leaders, you know, capacity was built as a result of a lot of these processes so the leadership in these agencies, they can change as much as they would like because, you know, as long as I'm in the community, I'm aware of what we discussed and I'm willing to hold the agencies and any new commissioner and, you know, any other new person that may be assigned to work with us. You know, I can hold them accountable. I can remind them about what my community said about a certain process and make sure that we get to the end result and you know we're not changing course simply because someone changed jobs. And when you have that local leadership in place people who are invested have no intention of leaving this community or going anywhere and can bring any individual that may come after some other up to speed, then you're going to get the results that you will already come forward. And so that is why I'm not at all concerned about the change in leadership and that we haven't had any problems with with any turnover and leadership as a result of the Brownsville plan we are continuing as planned. That's really awesome to hear and you know when I hear you talk about the ways in which you've responded to the two questions which is just really brilliant. So the Black Space Urbanist Collective we after a year long process of working in Brownsville, we came up with the Black Space Manifesto, which is a series of 14 principles to support practitioners working in with and for black communities. And two of those principles you really touched on brilliantly the first being center the lived experience and I think when you talk about the roots how the roots of the community show up in the Brownsville plan, and how that was really just like pushed and supported by local leaders that really is about centering the lived experience and then also feeds into just the ability for you know even if government changes and shifts and whatever it does that because it's it's owned by local leaders that that doesn't really have an impact and so that really talks about fostering individual and communal evolution and that's another principle of the Black Space Manifesto, which is really about the work that you're doing whether it's design or planning that you really want to support individuals being elevated and amplified and just like you know becoming advocates in the community through this process, but then also that supports communal evolution because those individuals become advocates for the broader community and I think just the ways in which you've talked about these, you know, those two responses really emphasize those two principles. So thank you so so much for that. Torian I want to, you know, shift to you now and really learn from you. You know, I want you, you mentioned that you've been in this community for 20 plus years, which is really exciting to have you here and to talk about that and I'd love to hear your story. What is your history in this community and and how does what you've experienced growing up connect to why there was a need for the initiatives embedded in the Brownsville plan. I am so sorry for my internet connection is cutting up so I didn't hit anything you said. Okay, no worries I'll repeat myself. So now I was saying that I was excited, excited that you're here as a long standing resident of Brownsville and you know you mentioned you've been living in 20 plus years, and, or just like your whole life I think it was either one of the two please correct me but you'd mentioned I would love to hear about your history and how it aligns with why there isn't that there was a need for the initiatives embedded in the Brownsville plan like I'd love to hear about your story growing up in Brownsville. Oh, um, so I am a lifelong resident of Brownsville. I've left the neighborhood a few times but I've always come back home. I grew up, you know, right on Brock away Avenue. And, you know, and growing up in Brownsville during the 80s and the 90s when, you know, it was just plagued by drugs and violence. I feel like I want to say over the past 20 years. Really, you know, the people in the community who love the community that the way that I do have really stepped up. Right. And so they've gotten more involved in, you know, being a part of the community board and you know, being in each and, you know, being in every organization throughout the community. So like me personally, I wear a lot of hats. Right. I'm a resident. I'm the Community Engagement Specialist for the Brownsville partnership. I'm the Chief Administrative Officer for the Brownsville Neighborhood Empowerment Network. I'm also a founding member of the Family Advisory Board out of another organization called United for Brownsville just a minute baby girl. Which focuses on social, social emotional outcomes for children, zero to three years old. And then I'm also a board member for the other organization that I mentioned gathered for Brownsville. So I wear a lot of hats, right, because I love my community. I care about this community. Right. My family has been in this community for over 100 years. And, you know, in 1918, my great grandparents immigrated from Barbados and Brownsville was the first place that they lived. Right. And so I'm literally related to at least one third of this neighborhood by blood. And that's not to mention, you know, marriages and cousins and you know, but my work and my everyday engagements and encountering people around Brownsville. They're, you know, over the past few years, that dark cloud of negativity and having that negative reputation of being the worst place to raise children and the most violent community in New York City. Right. That that dark cloud is just it's slowly starting to dissipate. It's slowly starting to be lifted up because like I said before, you know, more people are becoming involved. Right. From the grad from the grassroots level, all the way up to, you know, organizational level, working with government agencies working within the government agencies and being those people to represent this community. And so, like, that's that's another that's just another piece of putting the village back. That was really touching to hear. And thank you so much for sharing. And it was touching for me because I was born and raised in Brooklyn. I was born and raised in Park Slope, Brooklyn, before Park Slope became what we know it to be today. And and I I lament because I can't I can't share the same sentiment or Park Slope that you share for Brownsville because you've been able to move back. You've been able to be a part of the systems of governance. You've been able to sort of work organization that's based there and support the transformation of your community that you love so much. And so, you know, my family was pushed out because of gentrification, we can live there because it was too expensive. And so, and so when I think about just the place that I grew up in, and I go back there, I nothing looks the same, I can't even, nothing looks like what the fond memories that I have in place. I, when I hear your story, I just really, it's, it I have mixed feelings because you know you do express that it was a harsh, you know, number of years in your upbringing, but then also I'm hopeful because you talk about things shifting, but shifting positively in a way where you feel like you can still be there and still participate in the transformation of your community that it's not going to change in a way that you feel like, Well, I gotta move out and where am I going to go. Right. And so that is so exciting and encouraging you don't really hear that story in neighborhoods in New York, particularly in Brooklyn because change has been so rapid and it's been pushing people out to spacing folks. So, I'm excited. I'm excited for where Brownsville is headed for the role that you two are going to play in, in just like continuing to create a space where people feel encouraged to be a part of civic engagement. And, and so that they, that there there isn't fear of being pushed out. They can stay in place that can they can be attached to please that please can improve can can transform and be great and then people can still, if you grew up there you can still live there. You don't have to feel like you have to move out because you can't afford to live there any longer. So I would love so I have one question in the Q&A that I want to bring into the conversation for both of you. This attendee writes, what would you as community members want young architects to know about investing participating in these processes. And can you talk about what it has been like to meet with designers to work with them. I want young architects to really, you know, you know, thinking about everything that you've heard today. There are so many spaces in the community that have not only, you know, there are some spaces that have some some traumatic memories. But I think the positive memories that spaces in our community have is probably more positive than negative. And, and so I understand that sometimes older structures may not, you know, fit the needs of the community, exactly the way that they should in present day as they did in the past and so, you know, I understand that some spaces have to be rethought, but it really is important to to preserve as much of the the neighborhood in new design, as well as think about how you can make spaces more efficient for the services and the way that we live and the way that we do business to, you know, to exist today and so, you know, if something has to be, you know, say torn down because a retrofit is not, you know, possible and retrofits are, you know, in a prior conversation retrofits are they're really possible, but I understand that sometimes certain spaces are under built and if you maximize the zoning, you can provide and solve issues within the community but really paying homage to what may have been there before and making sure that the new structure shares some of the history and what occurred in those spaces I think is really important to the morale of the community right and the education of the community and helping people to understand what they can accomplish in the community. I still hear so many stories about certain spaces and sometimes it's just a result of you being introduced to someone and someone who can tell you a really interesting story about the space, but you know, as architects, I know, you know, just from my own work and helping to design spaces, although I'm not an architect. I'm a project manager. So, so I get to work with architects a lot you know architects have to tell the story about the space that they're designing right and so they have a real unique opportunity to memorialize what they know exists. And then also tell the story about what they're creating. And so we don't want to know who built there today we want to know who all built there in the past, and really tell the story about what all the uses that occurred in this particular area, because in 50 years or 100 years there's some other young architect right that's going to come behind you. And what do you want them to say about what you contributed to that space. That's a really great point and you're you know essentially you're talking about this balance between historic preservation and planning and new new planning your development. There's a balance between the two you do want to go into community and really identify what the existing assets are are working for people. And you want to improve upon that you want to build upon that platform, but you don't you also don't want it to be pediment for bringing in the new resources and responding to the needs in the community so you want to create that balance between what is being preserved and conserved, who has identified those spaces as important and necessary to the existing cultural heritage of the community, and that and that it does, you know, work in tandem with and support new to satisfy and address the needs in the community. So, you know, thank you so much for for bringing up those those two points so I'd love to hear from you, sorry and and I'll repeat that we've lost her. Unfortunately. Okay so hopefully she will be back but I would love to. Again anyone if you have questions please put them in the Q&A. I would love to also hear from you, Ginny's. How have any local. Okay, looks like Torian has come back. Torian are you back with us. Hi Torian are you back with us. Yes I'm back sorry about that. Okay, no worries awesome. I would also love to pose this question to you. How, what would you want architects to know about working in and investing in these processes and, and what is it what has it been like to work with with designers, architects, planners. In your work. So, for the architects of the future. I would, I definitely echo what Ginny said about preserving the historical value of some of the structures throughout Brownsville. But I would also say, think outside of the box think think innovatively. Right. Because, like recently I've become fascinated with this new style of building homes. Well I don't know if it's new but like, these tiny homes and these shipping container homes like, I've become really fascinated with that. Right. And I think that, you know, we have a lot of small properties in Brownsville that are oddly shaped. And, you know, something like that on one of those types of lots. It might look odd, like, you know, one of these things just doesn't belong here, but it would also add to the uniqueness and character of Brownsville. Right, because Brownsville is like no other community throughout this country. And I've been to a lot of places throughout the United States and nothing is like Brownsville. As for working with designers and developers and architects. Like I said earlier, like I'm learning a lot, especially like around zoning and all of the different tests and different things that like that back end work that goes into developing a property. Like shadow analysis and noise analysis and, you know, ground soil tests and all of those kinds of things. So for someone like me who I'm not in that field of work. And, you know, that's not my forte. It's been a really exciting learning experience. That's awesome. And I think, you know, what you bring up is just the fact that even as architects are working in a project that they can support capacity building for leaders. If you're just sharing knowledge, you know, if you should sharing passing on wisdom and experience to residents but also acknowledging that residents come with their own expertise of their lived experience and so these this is really about two experts coming together to think through the ideas and problem solved around the built environment. And there can be an exchange that happens there that yourself as a as a long standing resident can bring your expertise about the culture of the community, the, the, what has worked what has not worked. And then the technical expert architect planner or whatever can also bring their expertise and the two come together a vision, a plan, a design for forward and and that's how it really should be. Because you walk away now feeling oh wow okay I know what architect do. I know time I have an architect come on board I know exactly how to talk with them I know exactly what their steps are going to be. And what we need to do and what they're what the outcome is supposed to look like right because that can be challenging not knowing where you're not knowing what the end product is going to look like. So, architects can actually be facilitators of that knowledge exchange and that process of supporting capacity building both ways. So, we're going to bring this conversation so close. I think you ladies so much for your time, your wisdom, your, your energy and just the amount of work you've put into Brownsville. And to this plan to making it work and to the work that's happened after the plan. And I'd love to just hear from some last minute words from the two of you. Just in terms of just like summing up this conversation and just like the ideas and thoughts you have moving forward for the work that to continue in Brownsville, starting with you Janice. So, a plan for me as a base is a baseline, right. I understand that sometimes plans, you know, you, because of time, sometimes you have to rethink plans, but but I do really appreciate the, the wealth of knowledge that you gain. As a result of planning the relationships that get built as a result of planning. And, you know, I look forward to continuing to work with the community, as well as our partners in academia, my partners in government to continue to plan for our community and make sure that the equity exists across the city. And that communities like Brownsville, the, the stories are not lost, but they are able to be told in the way that continues to demonstrate the resiliency of the individuals that live there. And, you know, and that these stories that that the same story that exists in so many other places around gentrification and you know folks being pushed out their neighborhood that hopefully that story really, you know, kind of stops at Brownsville, because I've been working really hard with the Brownsville plan to make sure that local folks are included in that plan in a very thoughtful way, including, you know, making sure that they are a part of the building of the buildings in Brownsville because that creates a whole other level of, you know, commitment to the spaces in terms of how they're maintained, because everybody gets to put their foot their hand print on the buildings and so you, you know, you wouldn't go and sit in front of the building or watch someone do the building that that disrespects your contribution to those spaces and we do want to make sure that also as a result of the Brownsville plan that there is economic dollars that recycle consistently when you think about the Black Wall Street. And, you know, the fact that the city is committed to developing mixed use spaces, we want to make sure that there's hyper local businesses in those spaces that those who are not choosing to be business owners but but that you know, perform trades as a part of other businesses that they have an opportunity to contribute and also that the other agencies in the community like our banks are involved in this process as well because there's so many roles that so many other stakeholders play in the development of the Brownsville plan and the development of the opportunities that are created as a result of the Brownsville plan so it's a labor of love and you know the you know in the words of Nipsey hustle the marathon continues. I love it. I'm sorry and passing it over to you what are your final words. My final words. Well, my final words are this a plan is just that it's a plan, you know, it's like a promise, it can be changed, it can be updated, upgraded. But the most important thing is that if you don't have the people that it's going to most impact at the table, get rid of the damn table. Start all over again. Because those are the people. Those are the voices that need to be heard the most. Right. Don't worry about lining your pockets. Don't worry about what other people are going to say. Don't worry about that lasting impact that you're going to have on that family that you're building for, or for, you know, the business that, you know, their ceiling is cave in and they just need a little bit of support to, you know, get that get that leak fit fixed. Right. Be be a proverbial air to listen and shoulder to cry on, even if you can't affect change in a major way, just that small gesture of compassion can go a very long way. And with that, I will say, thank you for inviting me to be a part of this. Because it's been amazing. Yes, ladies so much and you know just final words have brought up, you know, two more black space principles that I will end with. So, Jen, you remind me of cultivate wealth. And especially if we think about the history of particularly black communities and that you know such actions like aligning have had on communities there and also has had on Brownsville. And these actions have actually depleted the wealth and disenfranchised can color particularly black communities and so in every effort that we have in black communities we really need to think about how we can cultivate wealth and what she talks about was just like in every facet. When you're building you want to hire people that are local people are working in the community want to build those skills in the community want to create opportunities for local entrepreneurship like you want to think about in every facet of a project. You can support the local economy and what you what you've talked about and really raised from me really taps into be humble listeners who be humble learners who practice deep listening. That's a really important aspect of the work as well that's really like it requires you to not go in with intention. It requires you to really listen to what people have to say and sometimes you have to be that ear, sometimes to be a shoulder. And even though you as a designer architect urban designer planner historic preservation practitioner, you might not feel like you can change the world or you can solve the complete problem but you have a contribution to me to to addressing the issue and you can support community and doing that and there's there's empowering, an empowering process for parties. So, thank you so much for your insight your wisdom and just sharing your experience with us today we appreciate you. And thank you to all the participants and attendees who attended those who, who submitted questions. And we just hope that you have a really good rest of your day. Thank you. Thanks for having us. Thank you.