 Today, we're going to analyze Keefeedee and Diddy. Keefeedee was arrested for the murder of Tupac Shakur. Greg wants to tell us about the videos we're going to watch. Yeah, there can be two videos on Keefeedee and one on Diddy. The two for Keefeedee are from VladTV, one four years ago, one four months ago. And then the Diddy interview is from BET from Charlemagne. So let's talk about what happens next. You know, based on what the book says, Zip gave you a Glock, gave you guys a Glock. And you guys tossed it in the backseat and Bubble Up was a driver. And Baby Lane and Freaky were in the backseat. We was just all in the car together. This was the white Cadillac. Yeah. OK. So you guys are driving around and then you hear these girls say, Tupac, Tupac. You know, we coming up. What's the name? What's that, Fumigo? Yeah, I think that's Fumigo. He's coming up for me going out to the light. We used to go drink and smoke some weed. And he happened to be hanging out the window. He's hanging out the window like he was in a parade. Tupac. Yeah, he was. So what happens next? And we just came. I ain't going to go into details like that. You know what I'm saying? But, you know, you got it in a book. You didn't play it everything else. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Well, in the book. You said that as you're driving up towards the towards the BMW, which showed driving and Tupac in the passenger seat. And you said that Tupac pulled out a gun. It looked like he was reaching, yeah. Yeah, it did. OK. Yeah. Did you actually see a gun? No, I said once he got the region, I got the duck. So someone from your car. That's what I started shooting at Tupac and shook. Lane starts blasting. You say should look over, he sees you. He looks right at you. Yeah, he looks at me. When he looks over at you. And then, you know, Tupac's busy getting shot. Evidently, the story is Tupac's trying to either get out. In the back seat or something. Yeah, what do you see happening inside there? I saw a boy going, yeah, I thought he was dead. I thought he was dead. So Orlando shot him in the back of the cross tray. He leaned over on the window, he rolled down the window, popped him. They were drove on my side, I was popped him. You know what I'm saying? But they was on the other side. Right. I'm not going to go into details on that one. Keep your streets on me. I ain't going to go into detail on that. Well, I'm going to go ahead and read from the book. Well, let them buy the book then. OK, well, I'm just going to read this passage. The shit was on. Tupac made an erratic move and began to reach down beneath this seat. It was the first and only time in my life that I could relate to the police command. Keep your hands where I could see them. Instead, Poc pulled out a strap and that's when the fireworks started. One of my guys from the back seat grabbed the clock and started busting back. The first shot, skin shook in the head and I thought it was dead. I had heard some stories, supposedly that Tupac, that Shug used Tupac as a shield when the bulls are flying, but that's some bullshit. Shug was already wounded and he was the one that got touched. As the rounds continued flying, I ducked down so I wouldn't get hit. Basically, yeah. All right, Greg, what do you got? Yeah, let's first start off by talking about some of the things we may not see and those are anything that is part of a subculture. When I say a subculture, there's greater America, there's California, there's Crips, there's probably South, Southside Crips, all that. So all these people are gonna have some symbols and signals that we might not notice. However, he's pretty locked down, which means anything that he does is gonna be more pronounced than it normally would be and we'd see it. I'm assuming that he wouldn't do that kind of thing to signal anybody because there's no need. The other thing to bring up is fighter flight. Fighter flight has two components that make you more or less liable to show signs. One is genetics, some of us are better designed for that than others and the other is inoculation. So for example, I would say Chase, you probably are more inoculated than all of us. You just hadn't been that long since you've been away and doing lots of gunfighting kind of stuff and that changes the way your brain works. And then if these guys are exposed to lots of violence, that kind of thing also affects it. But he starts off right out the gate by his first act of avoidance. Does it mean he's lying? Not necessarily. When he asked him, where were you sitting in the car? Where was this person sitting in the car? He goes, we were all in the car. That's a vague representation of a situation because that, now when we talk on the true crime workshop about Liar's Loop, we always say you de-conflict. That is a sign of de-conflicting up front. Doesn't mean he's lying, but it allows him the opportunity to lie, allows him the opportunity to be deceitful, deceitful. Then as he, so going there as an interrogator would make me want to be more concise. Any of us would say, hold on a minute. Why does it matter that you were sitting here or there? Because that's starting to be something that would make a difference to me. One interesting, we won't see a whole lot of these, but we do see a couple of things in him. That he rolls his head back in a full eye-accessing thing. He's got these big sunglasses on. You really can't tell where his eyes are going. My guess is that's recall. And then he qualifies. And the only time we hear him say this in the entire videos, and he says, that's what happened. When he's talking about ducking and going to it. There's, you know, John Lovett. So he says, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the ticket. That kind of thing is a joke. That's in effect what he's saying. I'm gonna keep going because there's a few more in here but Chase, you want to take it from there? Yeah, this entire clip just feels like a performance. It feels like there's something being performed or acted out. And the self-amusement that's evident, I think here in his expression, at key points where he feels maybe coy about hiding information is very suspicious to me. I don't know the case well, but you know, we aren't the forensics panel. We're here to look at statements, behavior, body language and other human elements from the video. If he was ducking the moment Tupac reached for a weapon, how did he make eye contact with Shug and also see him get clipped in the head? I don't know. And at the end of this clip, there's some clear Dupers delight. Let's talk about that real quick. Paul Ekman, who's a researcher, invented this term to kind of explain what this is. So Dupers delight is this nearly uncontrollable flash of pleasure that shows up on the face from successfully deceiving someone. So it's momentary, fleeting expression shows up when they think they got away with a lie. It's a micro expression, meaning that it's super quick and brief on the person's face. And I think there's one more meaning that we're seeing here that I'd like to staple on to this definition. And I hope Dr. Ekman would approve of this. But I think it's also when someone is impressed with themselves or being coy about the more overt nature of the deception. So when the deception is a little bit more overt and he knows that he is holding something back on purpose, I think that could potentially qualify. Scott, what do you got? My wife is a private investigator and I asked her, where do you start when you started investigation? And you know what she said? Google, I search them online. Have you ever Googled yourself and you were shocked to see the personal information exposed on one of those public listing sites? Of course, I Googled myself. You wouldn't believe what I found. They knew where I used to live. They knew my old phone number. They knew all kinds of things. I had no earthly idea we're out there. Data brokers are making a fortune selling your information to robo collars, spammers, and others who wanna learn more about you, like where you live. That's why I'm excited to tell you about today's sponsor, Aura. Aura can identify data brokers exposing your information and submit opt-out requests on your behalf. Brokers are legally required to remove your information if you ask them to, but they make it really hard to do. So let Aura handle it for you. You can try Aura free for two weeks using our link. Aura also does so much more to protect you and your family from threats you can't even see. And it's really easy to set up so you don't have to download a bunch of different apps to get parental controls, antivirus, VPN, password management, identity theft insurance, and more. You get everything at one affordable price. Let Aura do the hard work of keeping you safe online so you can focus on other tasks with peace of mind. You can either let people continue to exploit and profit off your information or you can go to aura.com slash tbp, aura.com slash tbp to start your free two week trial. There's also a link in the description below. All right, I really like this group of videos we're doing. And like Chase said, we're not the forensics panel or the behavior panel. All we're gonna do is tell you about the behavior, the body language we see in these specific videos. So if there's something we don't cover that deals with this case, sorry, that's not what we do. But in this set of videos, we see all the classics that we look for when it comes to deception. And we'll start off with his breathing rate and how he's breathing. Quite often when someone reads normally, you breathe with your stomach, it's, you know, you're relaxed and that's what's happening. But when you get stressed, and your limbic system fires off, you start breathing from your chest and they get small, your breath's due, and they go in and out really quickly. And we're seeing that. And as we go through here, especially on the second set, you'll see that happening a lot more. And that lets us know there's a lot of stress when someone starts breathing like that. When he said, like Greg was talking about, well, we just all in the car together, we see the classic moving back where that's one of the things it doesn't mean they're lying or telling the truth. When you're looking for deception, you're looking for clusters of behavior for these little cues and we see a lot of them. So that's one, I count that. That's actually number two, the breath rate and the way he's breathing in the chest, that's number one. And then the moving back as he's talking and delivering what might be deceptive, we see him moving back. The thought process is this, you're trying to separate yourself from the lie. Who knows, you know, if that's why you do that, but quite often we'll see that when someone's being deceptive. When he's describing the placement of the people in the car, again, like Greg was talking about, his illustrators, they don't land properly. I don't know if you talk about illustrators or not, Greg, but when he's talking, they don't land on the words they should land on. When you illustrate your, it's your brain emphasizing specific words and phrases. And he has come across after he's finished speaking a couple of times. So he'll say something and they'll keep going, which lets you know or it suggests to us that there's inner dialogue going on up here. He's thinking about what he's gonna say. He's thinking about the information he's given and he's still de-conflicting as he talks. We talked about de-conflicting, again, in the liar's loop in the true crime workshop. When he's describing, this is where it gets iffy. So after the adjustments, after he asks the questions, his adjustments in the seat are so big, they're not comical, but they're really big. And that lets us know he's becoming uncomfortable as well. So what we're looking for in a person we think might be deceptive is we're looking for stress cues. And that's what these cues are. Let's know they're getting stressed in a situation like this. There are other cues you look for specifically when the person isn't stressed, but they're trying to dodge around an answer and give you something that's deceptive, I guess you'd say. And then when he says, yeah, we see that hedge up forward really fast and really hard. So I think that just might be a little shot of energy because his nerves are getting out of control there. He's getting nervous. So he's got to get rid of that built up stress and tension. That's why he starts using adapters. So after the description of what happened, he says basically, yeah. And that's a whole lot of room for him to squirm in there. Because he says, after he's described what happened, he doesn't really nail, he's not, this guy isn't an interrogator, he's in an interviewer in the style that we prefer, but he leaves it a little bit open-ended so the guy has a lot of room to squirm around in there which is, that's kind of tough to deal with. And so for this video altogether, when we study through it, and I'm leaving stuff for the other guys as well, or for Mark anyway, we're seeing seven, or I caught seven, cues of deception. So as you go through this, if you get that gut feeling that says, I'm not seeing cues or anything, I get the feeling he's being deceptive. That's why, because your brain's seeing things that say, something's not right here about this. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, look, as you guys well know, as everybody knows out here, I don't run with this crew, they're not my usual crew, so I will undoubtedly get some of the names wrong here. But what a great thing to be in a vehicle with bubble up. That is just, if you could ever get in a vehicle and like bubble up his next dude, what a great, and baby, baby somebody, baby somebody, it's like... I don't know, they're all dead. Right, right, okay. So no longer. Just imagine looking at him and telling you to buckle up. Yeah, I can't even, I'm not even going to attempt that chase. I'm not going to, that's a great, great tongue twister there. So there he is, he's with bubble up, buckled up and probably not, probably haven't got the seat belts on. Look, that lean back, I agree Scott, it could well be avoidance, but let's see how much it plays out throughout the rest of these videos and his life, because it could be baseline for him. There is something casual about it. Greg, that eye-accessing for memory, I think his hand goes back to the back of his head as well to access memory as well. Those long-term memories are actually situated right back there, which is why you often get this kind of looking down and hand to the back of the head or is that a deceptive move as well? I don't know, at this point, too early to stake your life on it at this point. He has no problem correcting the story as he goes along. Now I agree, he's correcting it in a way that could be seen as avoidance. So I do get that, but it could be he's correcting the story because he wants to go, look, it wasn't, it was simpler than that or it was just like this. The start of it really, it is a terrible interview for the start because really he's not saying a great deal. The interviewer is filling in everything and maybe the avoidance and some of that kind of smugness is about he doesn't want to deliver all the content of his book right now because he wants people to go out and buy the book and he does say during this, well, read the book. He's trying to sell a book here. And so what the interviewer does is goes, well, and reads a bit of it and he goes, basically, yeah. Well, that's kind of a confession to what is already written in the book and he doesn't really want to be reciting the book in the interview. He wants people to go out and buy the book. So some of this avoidance I might put down to him trying to avoid shooting himself in his own foot about delivering the whole contents of his book in a video. Now at the same time, I don't think he's entirely, having seen some of the other videos, it may not be that, but there's a possibility. One of those tape replays. So let's talk about what happens next. You know, based on what the book says, the zip gave you a glock, gave you guys a glock and you guys tossed it in the backseat and bubble up was a driver and baby Lane and Freaky were in the backseat. We was just all in the car together. We just sat in that. This was the white Cadillac. Yeah. Okay. So you guys are driving around and then you hear these girls say, Tupac, Tupac. You know, we coming up, what's the name? What's that, Fumigo? Yeah, I think that's Fumigo. He's coming up to Fumigo and got to the light. We used to go drink and smoke some weed and he happened to be hanging out the window. He's hanging out the window like he was in a parade. Tupac. Yeah, he was. So what happens next? And we just came. I ain't gonna go into details like that, you know what I'm saying? But you know, you got it in a book. You didn't play it at everything else, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Well, in the book, you said that as you're driving up towards the BMW with Shug driving and Tupac in the passenger seat, and you said that Tupac pulled out a gun. It looked like he was reaching, yeah. Yeah, it did. Okay. Yeah. Did you actually see a gun? No, I said once he got the region, I got the ducking. So someone from your car started shooting at Tupac and Shug. Lane starts blasting. You say Shug looks over, he sees you. He looks right at you. Yeah, he looks at me. When he looks over at you, and then Tupac's busy getting shot, and again, the story is Tupac's trying to either get out of like... In the back seat or something. Yeah, what do you see happening inside there? I see the boy going, Shug, yeah, I thought he was dead. I thought he was dead. So Orlando shot him in front of Cross Stray. He leaned over on the window when you were down the window, popped him. They were drove on my side, I would've popped him. You know what I'm saying? But they was on the other side. I'm not gonna go into details on that one. Keep your streets on me. I ain't gonna go into detail on that. Well, I'm gonna go ahead and read from the book. Well, let them buy the book then. Okay, well, I'm just gonna read this passage. The shit was on. Tupac made an erratic move and began to reach down beneath his seat. It was the first and only time in my life that I could relate to the police command. Keep your hands where I could see them. Instead, Poc pulled out a strap and that's when the fireworks started. One of my guys from the back seat grabbed the Glock and started busting back. The first shot, skinned Shug in the head and I thought it was dead. I had heard some stories, supposedly that Tupac, that Shug used Tupac as a shield when the Bulls are flying, but that's some bullshit. Shug was already wounded and he was the one that got touched. As the rounds continued flying, I ducked down so I wouldn't get hit. Basically, yeah. In the book, he said the third day after getting back from Vegas, you guys met up with Zip in LA. At Wing Stop. At Wing Stop. Yeah. At Wing Stop with Hot Wings, LA Hot Wings. Yeah. And I guess you said the puffy call and said, was that us? And you didn't say nothing. I didn't say nothing. Yeah, you're right. There's also you going to the book that apparently there was supposed to be a million dollars that Zip was supposed to bring back, but he ended up keeping the money and buying a nightclub with it. That's what the FBI said. The FBI said that? Yeah. Yeah. You guys never got any money? Never. For anything? Nothing. Not even a pair of Shandong draws. You know what I'm saying? That's crazy. It seemed like Puff did that though. He, uh, seemed like every time something was in the back going around here, he, he, it looked like it's on the grass. Don't step around it. You get away from that. Okay. Well, you talked about how you made a crucial mistake by having a big meeting in the neighborhood. Yeah, it wasn't in the neighborhood. It was at a park outside the neighborhood. Okay, in Cerritos. Yeah. Okay. And what was the, what was the mistake that you made? I said I was just going to get some breath and puff and get us some guns because they kept on raiding our houses, taking our guns. And there was informants that was listening to this whole conversation. Whew. Yeah, they was there. Exactly. And they reported that, that back. Yeah. I wish you can enter the FBI's. They don't, they don't do like this. You know what I'm saying? Greg Hayden, he was just a LA detective, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, he act like he made me crumble and all that. All right, Chase, what do you got? This is insecurity. Big time. So we have a false start stretch where he doesn't know, you know, what to do. Like, where do I put my hands? What do I do? And within the first few seconds of this clip, then there's a fake stretch right after that, an artificial stretch. So it's a stress response. And you'll also see that it's a postural retreat away from the interviewer, away from the camera at the same time. And what we're seeing is somebody desperate to perform in a certain way, in his calculated attitude, who's also really stressed out. And it's an attempt to look more comfortable, more cool. And it backfires when we see it's not a real stretch at all. And he can't figure out what to do with his hands at all. Then there's breath holding. He stops breathing there for a little while. And this is another stress response, not to the information presented, but his need to look cool and collected. He's trying to lock himself down. And when he says, that's what the FBI said. This is a distancing attempt to make sure it's clear that he's fully separated from them. So listen for these qualifier statements anytime you're talking to a person. I can really reveal what I think would be precisely where a distancing point is and somebody's emotional interstate. He only uses one metaphor in here. And when people use metaphors in stories, this is indicative of a high level of emotion. So they're trying to ensure that you can fully imagine the story like they want to transfer the imagery of that to you in this moment. And this is his metaphor about Puff feet, Puff. I don't know what that means. I think that was a dragon, but maybe there's a human as well. What do you got? Well, yeah, Puff. Look, there is a change from baseline here. His voice really raises when he comes to talk about Puff and there being no payment and the idea would be he's getting away with some stuff. So clearly there's some beef, I would suggest, around Puff. I think that's the common parlance in that crew. You know, there's something up there. I love that stretch because you're right, it doesn't complete. It doesn't go anywhere. It gets rethought. I think the act there, Chase, is that display of disinterest in that? I think we see that in the shades as well. We don't see him throughout all of these clips or the clips later on play that shades. And again, show social disinterest by not allowing the eyes to be seen. I mean, it's not so bright in that studio that you have to wear shades. So we can suggest the shades are there for a very, very good reason in terms of the idea of himself that he's trying to get across. So he's trying to be cool. It's fair enough. He's, you know, he is who he is. I can understand that, but he's betrayed by that stretch, not completing. He is betrayed by the adaption in the seat, the movement in the seat of Scott was saying is continuing, he's fidgeting essentially and his tonality and volume changes when he starts to talk about Puff. Clearly there's something up there. Greg, what do you got on this one? Yeah, this is one of my favorites we're gonna see for one reason because he shows us a baseline and he deviates from it right after that. When he's talking about the wing place and he's trying to think, watch his hands move and illustrate when he's saying which wing place he corrects to the right place. And then he does that insecurity thing. I'm with you, Chase, that insecurity thing where there's a demonstration of feigned disinterest or something else he doesn't know what to do with his hands. Now look, when you're dealing with firearms and drugs and probably what you do with your hands is kind of important when you're around people who may take it the wrong way. So it could have an impact on that but I think it's just what we see. It's feigned disinterest or it's not knowing what to do with your hands and where they go. It's also interesting that now, Scott, I had this note when you brought it up in the last one I had it in this one to go back and say that pushing away is not his baseline. So it does mean something that avoidance does mean something because when he's talking, he leans in and uses his hands. When he says Puff called, he's talking about Diddy, by the way. I mean, he's using his old name. But when he says Puff called, who did he call? Did he call? You already call somebody else. And then he's just careful to avoid that. But he also is implicating himself when he says, when they asked, was it us? Well, that's, did you kill Tupac? That's what the question is. And of course he's working his way. And then finally, I think we know where our friend Lori got her illustrator because when he calls the FBI, he does a little bit of that. Scott, what do you got? There you go. Well, this unleashes more classics and I hate to keep staying in the classics vein, but they're great. I've always seen his wonderful, I think. So when it starts, he's very still at the beginning of his first few days. It looks almost like a statue. He's so still. As he's listening, I also could see his eyes and see what his blink rate is, but I bet it's almost non-existent because he's so focused on that interviewer. You know, all the information he possibly can and when he answers to make sure the guy believes him. But some of these answers when he's given him, he leans back so far, it's almost like he's, you know, fighting the laws of physics. I don't know how he does it at some point, but I'm under the impression that that yawn, that fake yawn he's doing where he does the stretch back and all that. I think he's obviously nervous, but I think he's gunning for time at the same time. And it's an adapter. He's getting rid of some of that built up stress and tension because he's really stressed, but he's not letting it go anywhere, you know? I think that was part of that laughing and all that smiling too, is just like Chase was saying, just nervous, nervous smiling. You'll see some people, they can't help it. They just smile when they get in trouble. And not because they think they've gotten away with something, but because they just smile at time. But I do agree, a lot of this we're seeing is Dupers Delight and embarrassment. I think at the same time too. So when you ask, when the subject of Zip and the money comes up, the question should have been, how much money did you get? Because the questions start getting better, especially in the second group of videos when we get there, they're a little bit better, but they're so wide open. It gives them all this room to squirm around and make stuff up and come up with stories. He can give really short answers and get out. There's no boxing him in at this point, but this guy's not trying to box him in. So that's probably what's bugging me is seeing that style of questioning. But that's what the question should have been, is how much money did you get? You see more of the same when it comes to that being frozen and he starts chaffing and redirecting, which he does a couple of times in here and we'll see Puff do that. I just call him Diddy all the time. I can't keep calling him Puff. I'm sorry, I'm gonna call him Diddy when we go through this. So we've seen Diddy chaff and redirect as well here in a little while, because after a while you really can't take that. If you're experiencing a lot of stress or you're breathing like he's breathing in his upper chest and really fast, really short breaths, you start, you don't get dizzy right out of the gate, but after a while you're gonna get dizzy because you're not getting enough oxygen the right way and you start getting too much oxygen. So that makes it a little bit lightheaded. The question about the crucial mistake where he says, we're gonna get some bread from Puff. He squirms a lot. And it's like he's almost got this giant web that's falling on him. What's that slime stuff they did in the TV show for kids? A while back, I guess it's just called slime. I don't know. Lime, yeah. But it's really odd seeing him do that because his arms are way back and he's moving his hands around like he's got, that's odd behavior. If you're asking somebody questions and no matter what it's about, that's odd behavior. Now if you're asking them something where they're really stressed, that would fit right in there, but it's still odd. And it's still, the guy is acting really strange. So it goes back to the gut feeling of not believing this guy. That whistle after the statement about informers listening to the conversation, that's I think his limbic system popping off. And he just didn't, he didn't know what else to do. I think he just jumped out from them. Again, some people when they're getting ready to be deceptive, they'll say, well, and when you say, well, it doesn't seem like it's a whole lot of time, but you don't need a whole lot of time. Your brain works really, really fast. And that gives you enough time to think something up or to create something as you're getting ready to answer. Or to again, go back and de-conflict your answer and make sure everything's good. So I think we're seeing about seven, right at seven, I found seven cues of deception that suggest deception. They don't mean there are no absolutes. So seven cues that let us know maybe he's being deceptive here or I would think so after seeing these seven. One of those tape replays. In the book you said the third day after getting back from Vegas, you guys met up with Zip in LA. At Wing Stop. At Wing Stop. Yeah. At Wing Stop with Hot Wings. At Hot Wings. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess you said the puffy, puffy call and said, was that us? And you didn't say nothing. I didn't say nothing. Yeah, you're right. There's also you going to the book that apparently there was supposed to be a million dollars that Zip was supposed to bring back, but he ended up keeping the money and buying a nightclub with it. That's what the FBI said. The FBI said that? Yeah. Yeah. You guys never got any money? Never. For anything? Nothing. Not even a pair of Shondron draws. You know what I'm saying? That's crazy. It seemed like Puff do that though. He, seemed like every time something back going around here, he looked like it's on the grass. Don't step around it. You get away from that. Okay. Well, you talked about how you made a crucial mistake by having a big meeting in the neighborhood. Yeah, it wasn't in the neighborhood. It was at a park outside of the neighborhood. Okay. In Cerritos. Yeah. Okay. And what was the mistake that you made? I said I was just going to get some bread and puff and get us some guns because they kept on raiding our houses, taking our guns. And there was informants that was listening to this whole conversation. Whew. Yeah, they was there. Exactly. And they reported that back? Yeah. I wish you could enter the FBI's. They don't do like this. You know what I'm saying? Greg Hayden, he was just a LA detective, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. He made me crumble and all that. So six months later, after two pockets killed, was that the first time you seen Puffy? Yeah, that was my first time. Okay. And how did those conversations go? He was at the House of Blues and we was outside in front of a car. Okay. He was outside in the car. And he came up to the window. He seen me, he came up to the window, like, what's up dog? They had me up. It was a lot of people. He was like a celebrity. They would come fly us all them and everything. And he was all around us. But he wasn't paying attention to him. He was paying attention to us. You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. Because once he got there to the window, I had the big four or five in my lap and she like. So he backed away. He was telling us that if they give him a basketball game, he gonna be at this basketball game. Cal State of the States and they give him a party the next night. But at this point, you know, there was a whole rumor over. That Puffo was a million dollars. There was a rumor that Puffo was you a million dollars but you guys don't have a million dollars. So was there any sort of conversations, tensions, anything? Big dog, Puff now was, they was just getting started. I had more money than him. He was just getting started back then. Million dollars, still a million dollars. You're right. Like I said, he was just getting started. He was a, I was filling the tub of Don Perignon and Chris Dow. You know what I'm saying? I don't know if one showed him how to ball like that. Because he was drinking white lightning. You know what I'm saying? Him and Andreia Rararo, we was at the room in Anaheim. I filled the tubs up full of ice, Don Perignon and Chris Dow and stuff like that. It wasn't him. They was drinking white lightning. I was like, what the fuck is this? Okay. Yeah. So then the next night, Biggie gets killed. Yeah. I've seen it all year then. All right, Mark, what do you got? Yeah, I think it's nice to see the change in stress around the puff story. I think when the story starts out, you can see he's way back there. He's working his slime there, Scott. There's someone else going on here. I think he's navigating how, you know, where could this story go? Or what's that question about? And then I think he flows into it. And I think there's now, he's telling a real story there. And we see the illustrators start to move more fluidly. He comes forward. So I think you're right. This extreme avoidance here is probably not baseline for telling a story that he's comfortable with. I think, you know, the midsection of that puff story he's way more comfortable with. He becomes an agreeable conversationalist, I would say. He says, well, the interviewer says, a million dollars is a million dollars. And he says, you're right. You're right. That's very agreeable. So but is he agreeable because, you know, he agrees with the whole thing and or is he being agreeable because he's under stress here and being agreeable is one way to placate yourself with an interviewer who might have you, you know, pinned down in some way. So, you know, is he being overly agreeable in this situation? Not quite sure because at this point, you know, I'm not sure what his baseline is for agreement. I mean, actually, we've heard him before kind of trying correct stories that he doesn't think is right. So maybe he is being overly agreeable at this point. Greg, what have you got on this one? Yeah, I agree with you, Mark, that lean away is exaggerated when he gets to a hard point that he doesn't want to talk about. The other thing that we're going to start to see here as a baseline for him is when he has high value information, his brows rise out from behind those sunglasses. Really good one if you pay attention to him because he does that request for approval as he's talking about, and he's in effect saying, do you know what I'm saying? His brow rises when he says he thought she was dead, his brow rises really high when he said he wasn't interested in them, he was interested in us. And then when he's talking about meeting Puff there, his hands are going up and he's, or did he, I guess whatever name we're going to use now, his hands are up, his thumbs and fingers are separated and he just starts to roll. And I think he tries to do two things, take all of the emphasis away from money that he was owed and to what kind of cloud he had and also to redirect the story and give himself some cloud as he's walking through this, because he starts then to talk and he chaps and redirects and he does a beautiful job of it. He goes entirely off the topic, just moves it off to the side and then he starts talking about himself and how he had introduced him to this champagne, that champagne. And it just, there's just some awkward parts here. And then the final part, and it made me think maybe we missed, maybe I missed pulling something else in, is when he talks about Biggie, when he's accused of being, of shooting Biggie or killing Biggie that does mouth touching and covers his mouth. I think there's some eye blocking in there and some face pressing. A whole lot of stuff goes on there. It makes me think maybe we'll have another opportunity with this guy. Scott, what do you got? All right. Well, after the first two questions, those should have been, how long until you saw Puff, or Puffy, and then tell me about that. I mean, these were, these have been so, I wish, so wish some of these interviewers would get some training on how to interview when they're going in for a subject like this. I'm sure this guy, it's not his main, it's not his wheelhouse to be talking to somebody who's a murder suspect about what happened or what they might have done. But man, the questioning could have been a little bit better on this part. But that's when he leans back again. I think that's, I agree with you guys. I think that's one of those things where he's going back because in one case, he doesn't know what else to do. He's not used to being questioned like this. He's used to being questioned the other ways. If he's supposedly a gangster, he gets questioned all the time. But being on point like this, where you're supposed to look a certain way and you're supposed to act a certain way and sound a certain way, I don't think any one to do. So that's where he's going back. That's why he's leaning back like that. That helps, again, I think, get rid of a lot of that built-up stress and tension. And again, his illustrators are out of sync. They're mistimed. And quite often, we associate the mistiming of the illustrators. They don't land on the words or they go extra like that. We see it as a, I do anyway, as a deceptive cue. So I start piling those things up. And these, in every video, we're able to grab five or six of these old things that suggest deception, whether it is or not, who knows, but it sure looks deceptive so far for me anyway. And the Vray studies, which I'll refer to as, found that when you're being deceptive, most of the time the illustrators, someone's using, they'll disappear. They'll get really small or those completely go away. And in this case, they completely go away. For a little while, and they come back a little bit smaller. And then he starts rubbing his hands on his legs. That is one of the big red flags you see when someone is stressed. That lets us know that stress is at a high level at that point and start rubbing on their legs. And he does that several times throughout this. And after being, like you were talking about Greg, after being asked about a biggie being killed, he blocks by rubbing his nose and his face. He's got his hand all over his face. And this comes up again later on in crucial moments. Every time they talk about the shooting part or a shooting, that's when his hand goes to his face. And a lot of people say, well, it's because your nose itches when you're being deceptive. And we know that's not true. You know, that's called an absolute. An absolute is one of those things where they say, oh, your nose itches, so you're lying. Or the one shoulder goes up, that quick shoulder shrug means you're lying. Doesn't mean anything most of the time. But when you see him in clusters and groups together, that's when you can start saying, he sure is doing a lot of things that look weird for normal behavior. They're outside of normal behavior. And that's how I start grouping those up like that. So here, I found five of those cues that let us know it could possibly be being deceptive. Chase, what do you got? Yeah, I agree with you, man. And his body narration here is very pronounced in all the videos I've seen of him. So when he's telling the truth, there is clear narration. And you all will hear Greg and Scott talk about illustrators all the time. I use them as separate things. I still use word illustrators from y'all. So when Scott, you heard in video one, we talked about specific words and phrases like that. That's what I call illustrators. But when somebody is narrating something like size, height, direction, shape, movement to recreate, like Mark just went like this to say moving back in the chair, I call those narration. So illustrators illustrate language, narration tells a story nonverbally so that if a person was deaf, they might be able to glean some information about what was being talked about. So his narration is so common that it's a great part of his baseline. You'll see it get really messed up here when he's talking about being in the car and he's doing this little thing at the beginning, his hand kind of screws into this mangled shape and you'll see it disappear here at the critical point in the video. And in video one, it disappears if you want to go back and take a look. So this person that we're looking at here is all about image management, authority, status, and social hierarchy. So he uses symbols and signs to display this instead of confident behavior or anything genuinely high status. So it's all about logos and symbols and indicators. So just in this video, he was only paying attention to us and ignoring everybody else. He was early on in his career. I've had more money than him. I was filling tubs with expensive drinks and champagne. He was drinking cheap stuff. I've been wearing a Polo logo. I have these brand name sunglasses on with silver bling on them. The entire video is about please, please, please see me as significant. That's what this entire video is. There's a French philosopher in 1981 wrote a book his name's Jean Baudrillard. This was and is the rap industry. It's about the logos and projection of wealth. The projection of wealth being more important than the wealth itself. And it's a state where the representation of something becomes more significant than the real thing. And the rap industry, I think by just exalting these symbols of wealth and success isn't just championing material possessions. It's elevating the sign over the substance and the symbol for that thing over the actual thing. One of those tape replays. So six months later, after two pockets killed, was that the first time you seen Puffy? Yeah, that was my first time. Okay. And how did those conversations go? He was at the house of blues and we was outside in front of a car. He was outside in the car. And he came up to the window. He seen me, came up to the window, like, what's up dawg? Dab me up. But it was a lot of people. He was like a celebrity, biblical fox, all them and everything. They was all around us. But he wasn't paying attention to him. He's paying attention to us. You know what I'm saying? Because once he got attention to the window, I had the big four or five in my lap and she like, so he backed away. He was telling us that they'd give him a basketball game. They're gonna be at this basketball game in Cal State in Vegas and they give him a party the next night. But at this point, you know, there was a whole rumor over. That Puff owe us a million dollars. There's a room with that Puff owes you a million dollars, but you guys don't have a million dollars. So was there any sort of conversations, tensions, anything? Big dawg, Puff, they was just getting started. I had more money than them. He was just getting started back then. A million dollars, still a million dollars. You're right. Like I said, he was just getting started. He was, I was filling the tub up a dawn period on the crystal. You know what I'm saying? I don't know if one showed him how to ball like that. Because he was drinking white lightning. You know what I'm saying? Him and Andre Arrearo, we was at the room in Anaheim. I filled the tubs up full of ice, a dawn period on the crystal and stuff like that. It wasn't him, they was drinking white lightning. I was like, what the hell is this? Okay. Yeah. So then the next night, Biggie gets killed. Yeah. I've seen it all year then. The incident at the MGM, when Orlando got jumped. He, what I didn't realize is that he actually got so hurt that he had to go to the hospital. Yeah. So was his shoulder hurt or something like that? Yeah, shoulder, don't even kick the shoulder. So was it like dislocated? Dislocated, yeah. Okay. So his shoulder got dislocated. Yeah. And he went to the hospital in Vegas. Yeah. And what did they do? They put it back into the socket? They put a sling on his arm. Okay. I heard that shit's painful as hell. How did your shoulder dislocated and pop back? They kicked it out. Yeah, they kicked it out of his, yeah. Oh, they kicked his shoulder out of the socket? Yeah, yeah. Oh, damn. Yeah. They kind of demoned out. Not always a kid, man, that was wrong. How old was he at the time? He was like 19, man. Oh, he was a teenager at the time. Yeah, kid, man, yeah. Oh, okay, I thought he was a little bit older. He was 1920 at the time. 1920, he probably had just turned 20. Right. He was a kid, dude. Like six, seven people jumped on him? Yeah, he can even buy liquor. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, Sugar was doing the kicking. Yeah, him and Funtry, yeah. And Tupac, of course. Yeah. I ran track against Funtry when he ran for Waley. Oh, really? Yeah, you guys knew each other. You guys knew each other? Yeah, he ran track for Waley. He ran the third relay leg. And I ran the third relay leg. Greg, what do you got? So right out of the gate, this guy is doing a lot of mouth grooming. He's burying, he's doing some face touching. And I wonder if it's not related to the fact this is the same interviewer almost four years later. And you got a number one, remember what you said. Number two, you know, he poked on you pretty hard. So you could come in the door with some stress that you didn't have. And he was just arrested in September. This was four months ago. There's probably some rumblings of things happening. I know for a fact that there was a search warrant where they'd searched his wife or ex-wife's house is where they found some leads. So all of this stuff could be building up. We could be seeing some of that stress. We can't really know. One of the interesting pieces for me as he's talking here is he starts to talk about his past and he's building a little bit of his character. And he talks throughout all these interviews about his relationship with Shugnaite, his relationship with EZE, his relationship with Diddy, these kinds of things. So relationships and that impression of all of these relationships, people used to run track against. Those are important to him. When we interrogate prisoners, we listen for those things because now we would go in and say, wow, I didn't know you knew this guy and stroke his ego and work him around that. That's an insight to his character. Now, you might automatically assume certain things about a person because they're a gang leader, they're this or they're that. But all those people have some of the same drives that your neighbors have and those things. Even serial killers have drivers that are similar to people you know. So what we're looking for always are those drives. In his case, it would be a pride and ego up. It would be a stroke his ego around love of comrades, people he's known. Some of those are dead and you lean into that. So there's a lot of opportunity. The other interesting piece for me here, and there's not a whole lot body language I'm gonna cover, I'm gonna leave it for you guys, is when he's bleeding information because he says this guy had his right shoulder dislocated. If he had your right shoulder dislocated that's not what you're doing today. When you get put in a sling that's not what you're doing today. And he was very clear to say he was put in a sling. So now something else has to be different. And as he talks through these stories, one of the things that we find out is he'll say, well, who was there? Well, you don't know who was there because you're on a street. And this guy, this guy who's interviewing Vlad has interesting information from other people who happen to be in other cars following around. There's apparently entourage following in all this stuff. So we'll see some stress applied as we go to the next piece. But the main thing to watch here is he comes in higher stressed. We'll see him starting to fidget with his fingers on his right hand as he's adapting and showing more stress there. He does that mouth grooming and all that. So our start point is gonna be higher than it was in the last one and a little bit more clear. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, I think I'll just, what's it? Greg, define that pride and ego up because you talk about that a lot and you're going to describe it. Yeah, thanks, yeah. So three times. So when I talk, I'm talking from a Sharpian interrogation point of view on sharp based non-coursive interrogation. We look for psychological levers into that person. You'll call them themes and that kind of thing when you're using it because most interrogation comes out of this guy's work. So when you're talking themes, you're really talking psychological levers as well. And what a pride and ego up means is you take the person and you stroke their ego for what they've done. Works really well on a narcissist because they start to think you believe in them and they need that admiration. And then you kick the chair out from under them as soon as you get them to the point where you feel comfortable with them. And they have to, their ego cannot take it. So they have to come after you. We typically say pride and ego up works best on stupid people, but I've found it works the best on narcissists because they can't take losing a fan once they make a fan. Mark, what do you got? I don't have muscle Williams. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Once you're a fan, can't afford to lose one of my fans. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so I think this is quite a good lesson in interview because it starts off really badly where the interviewer here is just doing all the work, all the work and the interviewee is just going yes and yes and it's pretty monosyllabic about it. And so, yeah, that may well be an indicator that he doesn't really want to answer questions and he wants to be avoidant at this point. But when he gets onto the athletics piece, suddenly he's moving, certainly everything's flowing and I think you're right, it is this significance. Certainly he sees this as a status part of his life. He's now significant, absolutely. And now the interview is flowing. And so I would say, look, your number, regardless of who you're interviewing and why you might be interviewing somebody or even having a conversation where you feel like you need to get information out of somebody and you worry that they won't give you this information, I would say that your number one thing is to improve their mood. Just get them in a better mood than when they came. And so what the interviewer could easily do here would have got to come away from the athletics and go, look, that's not really what I want to talk about. And you could have seen it as a bit of a chaff and redirect, essentially. Well, I mean, that might be true because he could be chaffing and redirecting at this point but ultimately we're seeing his mood improve and therefore if it were me, I'd be going down that route and go, look, let's just get this guy talking more, happy to be here because then we can bring in some questions that he might be more avoidant of but he's now in this pattern of delivering content to us. So just a nice little class there in how to execute an interview whereby he may well have been chaffing and redirecting at the start of it but maybe let that run, improve the mood and take that wave and that gift that you're given. Chase, what are you on this one? Yeah, I agree with you. There's more fantastic body narration here with this shoulder injury. He even mimics what the sling looks like when they put the sling on. In the last video, you'll remember he used his right hand to talk about someone coming up to a car window. I'm willing to bet just from his body narration you can determine he was in the passenger seat of that car because that's where the window would be. So there's an appeal to innocence in this video, an appeal to innocence that I think reveals some depth to his personal psychology. There's a sadness about it. There's a sacredness that he places on the youth of Orlando, I think was his name. This is even further confirmed when you see his face light up talking about the good old days and running track against one of the guys who was involved here. His level of nostalgia is super high. His psychology seems to focus on all these positive emotions we've seen so far to the innocence of youth and the purity of the experiences of being young. And this might play into something you'll see in an upcoming video, but if you're seeing a reaction like this in your own life, keep in mind that you're already saying a powerful point to what Greg was talking about. You can use this to bring a person to a more state of open-mindedness. And in this case, psychologists might call this regression and just asking him later to talk about these high school days will bring this back up, making him more open, making him more relaxed, knowing that you have the same munitions. So it's pretty cool. Scott, what do you got? Right, like you guys have all said at the beginning, I think stress is already in play because he's chewing on his mouth, he's goofing around with his lips. And then he's again, he's really, really still while he's listening, which is at this point, I think become part of his baseline because he does it every time. But of course you'd have to, because you're paying attention to the questions that could put you on the spot and get you in trouble. And I would think, I don't know why he did an interview. I mean, that guy shouldn't have done anything. He should have just zipped his mouth and said, I don't know, man, I don't know, because I'm sure they're using some of this stuff in that case against him because some things we're gonna see later on are so obvious that you would want to give him some more intense questioning anyway, that it's almost comical, they're so blatant. But after that statement about Orlando getting jumped and going to the hospital, this is really interesting because we see a micro expression, but it's a blend of two expressions. It's disgust and anger at the same time because this little part here, whoops, your filter in this little part between your upper lip and your nose, that whole part right in there. And they come together and his upper lip comes up some, you don't see his teeth, but you see it enough to go, ah, I recognize what that is. So he's got, I'm sure it's because of his emotional involvement with Orlando that makes him mad about what happened to him. So we also see his nostrils flare, and these are really small and micro expressions that we talk about all the time. Something happens that's really small expression that leaks as Pollackman talks about it and shows you that that person has something else on their mind that they don't want you to see and emotion that they're experiencing. They don't want anybody to see, so it leaks that way. It's really subtle, but it's there. You guys covered everything else, so I'm good to go. One of those tape replays. The incident at the MGM, when Orlando got jumped. He, what I didn't realize is that he actually got so hurt that he had to go to the hospital. Yeah. So was his shoulder or something like that? Yeah, shoulder. Then he kicked his shoulder. So was it like dislocated? Dislocated, yeah. Oh, okay. So his shoulder got dislocated. Yeah. He was in the hospital in Vegas. Yeah. And what did they do? They put it back into the socket? They put a sling on his arm. Okay. I heard that's just painful as hell. Having your shoulder dislocated and then popped back. They kicked his, yeah, they kicked his, yeah. Oh, they kicked his shoulder out of the socket? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, damn. They got a, they got a, not always a kid, man. That was wrong. How old was he at the time? He was like 19, man. Oh, he was a teenager at the time. Yeah, a kid, man. Oh, okay. I thought he was a little bit older. He was 19, 20, 19, 20. He probably just turned 20. Right. He was a kid, dude. Like six, seven people jumped on him. Yeah, he can even buy liquor. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Sugar was doing the kicking as well. Yeah, him and Funtry, yeah. Funtry, yeah. And Tupac, of course. Yeah. I ran track against Funtry when he ran for Waley. Oh, really? Yeah. So you guys knew each other? You guys knew each other? Yeah, he ran, he ran track for Waley. He ran the third relay leg and I ran the third relay leg. So, so you guys went to the hospital, they patched him up and then the next set of events happened. Yeah. There was a rumor that the Shug Knight used Tupac as a shield. No, he didn't. That didn't happen? No, that didn't happen. Like I said, I thought he was dead. Sugar was dead? Yeah, I thought he was dead. Well, he got hit in the head. Yeah. Right, and I remember I even interviewed the first responder and he said that the Shug was just like spraying blood, damn near out of his head when he pulled up. Was Tupac trying to get into the back seat? Yeah, yeah, I said it a lot of times. Yeah, he was jumping around, yeah. In an interview, Mike Tyson, who was close friends with Tupac, said that he wishes he had five minutes of the room with Tupac's killer. Mike Tyson's a boxer, man. You know what I'm saying? He, you know, all these dudes, trash, I'll be hearing them all saying all that old tough guy shit. Them dudes are rappers, boxers. They ain't about that life, dude. You know what I'm saying? They didn't stay in their place, dude. You know, damn well, you don't want to see this. You know what I'm saying? I said, I'm training to go. I don't know about him. It's either me, it's do or die. And I'm from the old school and I'm from Compton, dude. I'm not playing with that. Playing with nobody like that, dude. Nobody, period. Well, I interviewed Mike Tyson. All right, Greg, what do you got? Well, one of the more interesting things of digging all these videos out. So I get to see some parts that we don't cover on here. And one of the things he talks about, he's talking about law enforcement as bringing his soldiers. So as a mindset in this whole gang activity world about soldiers and about kind of a warfare thing. So it's interesting to watch because there's some similarities in behavior between what the way he behaves and the way a soldier would be talking about enemy soldiers. So worth your time if you ever want to go see how these guys think. There's some asymmetry in his face as he denies chug using Tupac. Almost like contempt, like, what are you kidding? No, this guy wouldn't have done that. And even you might be in a different gang, you may still have respect for that other person. As a matter of fact, I read that Chug Knight after this said he was not going to tell who did it even though he knew. So there you go. And these gangs have some kind of code of silence back and forth. So I think it's worth paying attention to the fact, Chase, we don't see the bad guys that we fight as scumbags often. No, terrorism's a little different story. But if it's a military guy, if it's a warrior kind of mindset, there's a culture that's associated. He does this request for approval thing again. His brows rise above his sunglasses. As he's talking about, he thought Chug was dead. That's high value from him. Chase, he does a thing that you talk about hemispheric tendencies, gestural hemispheric tendencies. I think in his case, he's showing strength in one hand and weakness in another. When he's talking about the FBI uses his left hand. When he's talking about things where he did, he's using his right hand. And probably my favorite thing of all is in this one, when Mike Tyson's name comes up. Everybody thinks Mike Tyson's big tough physical guy and he is best boxer around. And you see that smirk when his name is mentioned and you see him switch gears from second person to first person. It's not any gang member could kill him. It's bring it on. It's me suddenly. He goes to first person. And when you start seeing that, that's not very smart to get in front of an interviewer and say, come and get me. If you want me, come and get me. Chase, what do you got? I agree with you. And anybody who uses a gun for a long period of time, I was a gunfighter for a long time in my career. We'll always gesture anything, power and strength with the dominant hand for that reason. And there's something about this human shield idea that really stresses him out enough to start pacifying all over the place, trying to calm himself down. Then he's trying to posture and this posture and trying to artificially pump himself up, open himself up with this fake shoulder stretch thing that we've seen before. There's a posture retreat, the fake stretch, fingers pacifying like this. Mark will probably talk about sprinkling salt here in a few seconds, which is self soothing. And he stops breathing again. But I want to briefly talk about these sunglasses, not just these in particular, but these sunglasses. This is to hide. Confident people don't hide. True status doesn't hide. Real power doesn't hide. Insecurity is the only reason someone feels the need to do this. And it's easy to see somebody on YouTube and think, you know, we're four guys or just random dudes on YouTube. We've collectively been in front of hundreds, if not thousands of true killers and psychopaths and terrorists and prisoners of war for this guy, special forces operators and literal professional murderers. All of us here, this isn't status, it's artificially crafted. He's probably still a bad dude, still back up how bad ass he is, but the missing element here is confidence. This is probably due to the environment and surroundings. And I think where this behavior of strutting and posturing and overcompensation is part of a culture that somebody is surrounded with. And he was childhood friends with EZE, who I listened to maybe in middle school when that stuff was really cool. And he grew up in a culture that was unforgiving of displays of weakness. And people who displayed probably any vulnerability saw an almost immediate consequence to that. So remember what Greg says, organism does what made it successful. That's what you learn from elementary middle school or long into adulthood. And we carry that stuff with us. So we're seeing somebody who grew up in this environment. Scott, what do you got? Yeah, I think he feels like he's got to comment about that question with Mike Tyson as a gangster. Cause what he's talking is crazy talk. We've all seen Mike Tyson. I don't know if you guys saw those videos that they had of him when he was thinking about getting back into business. And he, I mean, he's literally a monster. I mean, if he was loose, you'd have to shoot him to kill him. And that's what this guy's talking about. But he's gonna do it. That's all, that's the only help he'd have. It'd be like if, if for some reason, let's say we got on Joe Rogan and we go in there and I start some stuff with Joe Rogan. And for some reason, he wouldn't ever fight me because there'd be no need. You know, he would laugh and move on. No matter what I did or said, he would not fight me. But let's say in some freaky, you know, play of reason for some wild reason, he said, okay, I'm going to fight you. That wouldn't, that wouldn't last a second. It wouldn't, it wouldn't be anything. It would happen so quickly. And I would never be the same again. If I made him mad enough where he would actually really want to like not fight me but hurt me, I'd never be the same again. Same for this guy. If he thinks for a second, Mike Tyson wouldn't change his life forever. He's lost his mind because that's what would happen. Just one hit from Mike Tyson would, this, it would change his brain makeup. It would change, it would, it would give him brain, it really would give him brain damage. This guy couldn't have, nobody could handle it. You know, boxers take it, but it knocks them out. Anyway, so you can't go in there. It's like fighting a bear. You're not going to win. You're not going to win just you and a bear. Yeah, except for Greg, Greg, Greg can wrestle one pretty good, but yeah, but no, you're not going to win. But after the shielding question, we see another classic that all the panelists are aware of and that's contempt as well as anger again. And it's that the left lip raises up on the left side of his mouth and that chin comes out. And we see just a little bit of that, but it happens really quickly. So you got to pay attention, but it's there. So look for that when you watch this again. Now that lean back in the yon combined with that rubbing together the fingers and all that, that's a lot of psychological stress happening there because we're getting into the stuff that's really important for this interview. And that's why he's getting rid of that built up stress and tension. He's adapting. That's why I keep saying these are all classics. I keep repeating the same stuff because we're seeing the same things over and over. And this is what obviously what he does when these things bother. That's how he's getting, he's self pacifying, self soothing himself as he goes through this trying to get rid of that stuff. And all these behaviors like that are ways he's calming his brain down. Or his brain's trying to calm him down and make him feel more relaxed and be able to present what he's talking about a little bit better. So this is where we get, I think a great look at his ego because quite often in interrogation or an interview their situation like this, your ego or not your ego but the ego can be manipulated to get to the truth like Greg was talking about earlier. And there's no way this guy like I said before could fight Mike Tyson and not have a life changing experience. And I think that's what this, I don't think this guy went in planning that at all. I don't think it's why he brought that up. But I think maybe he's got that idea he can play on that and get a little bit more out of him kind of not making him mad but kind of poke around on him and get a little bit more out of him. I can't think of any other reason why he would let it happen that way. His questioning happened that way. If he wasn't trying to get the guy worked up a little bit and I'll leave it there. Who are we messing with, Mark? What do you got? Yeah, well, I mean, it does get a good change out of him and let's talk about what that change might be in just one moment. I agree with you, Scott, anger and contempt. Tiny, tiny, tiny. I mean, quick, quick, quick, but beautiful. Freeze that frame and you'll see it there. So that idea of should night are two pack using sugar night as a shield. Yeah, there's some real contempt and anger around that. Now is it contempt and anger that somebody would should even put that idea forward or is it contempt and anger because it happened? I don't know, non-mind reader. But clearly it's there and it's writ large but quick. Okay, so when I first started watching these videos one of the ideas that I entertain the possibility of is some of this lean back which actually has quite a big display of upper body strength to it is his way of going, look, I'm large, I'm big, I take up territory, you don't wanna cross me, you don't wanna take me the wrong way. So I thought, okay, maybe it's that. But then when you see that challenge of the Mike Tyson idea, and it is an idea, it's just a thought experiment. I mean, it's put forward as a thought experiment. Some people have said that Mike Tyson has said this, what do you think of this? It's a thought experiment. He comes right forward into it. He starts to really display this upper body strength here because in the thought experiment of it, it's a very safe place to be because we know it's not really going to happen. It's not really gonna happen. And I think, yeah, in his mind, he's just like, you know, it would be a scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark. He just gets out a gun and there you go, okay? So what is lovely to see from my point of view is that I can no longer entertain the idea that this is aggression for him because when given that thought experiment, he comes forward, he displays that big upper body strength. There's a whole different air around him. When he feels strong and safe, he's gonna be forward in that chair and he's gonna display forward. When he feels unsafe, he's in that retreat response, I think. So just nice, I think for me to see that and be able to lay the rest, he's not leaning back because he's kind of passive aggressive. He's leaning back because he is on the back foot on this one. Yeah, that's all I got on that. I got a funny story for you, Scott. We were doing UK for his torture, the Guantanamo guidebook. There's a guy named Smiler Turner. You might know who he is, Mark. He was a MMA guy, big beast of a guy from UK who was a European champion. And we took him down, just grabbed him and took him down. And later people were saying, why didn't you fight back? And two things, he said, well, these guys kill people, I just punch people. There's a difference. That might be what he's trying to get at. The other thing is when he said, what would you have done? We had pepper spray. He would have been crawling on the floor, crying like a baby while we scooped him up and handcuffed him. So those positions of authority are the thing, but yeah, I agree with you. So, so you guys went to the hospital, they patched him up, and then the next set of events happened. Yeah. There was the rumor that the Shug Knight used Tupac as a shield. No, you didn't. That didn't happen. Like I said, I thought he, I thought he was dead. Shug was dead. Yeah, I thought he was. Well, he got hit in the head. Yeah. Right. And I remember I even interviewed the first responder and he said that the Shug was just like spraying blood and damn near out of his head when he, when he pulled up. Was Tupac trying to get into the back seat? Yeah, yeah, I said it, I thought, yeah, he was jumping around again. In an interview, Mike Tyson, who was close friends with Tupac, said that he wishes he had five minutes in the room with Tupac's killer. Mike Tyson's a boxer, man. You know what I'm saying? He, he, you know, all these dudes, treachery, I'll be hearing them all saying, all that old tough, tough guy shit. You don't do the rappers, the boxers. It ain't about that life, dude. You know what I'm saying? It ain't a steady place, dude. You know, they don't, they don't, you know, damn well, you don't want to see this. You know what I'm saying? I said, I'm trying to go. I don't know about him. It's either me, it's do or die. And I'm from the old school on where, and I'm from Compton, dude. I'm not playing with that. Playing with nobody like that, dude. Nobody, period. Well, I interviewed Mike Tyson. You know, when the incident happened, there were four people in the car. You're the only living person. That was in that car right now. Everyone else has passed away since then. What witnesses were saying, though, was that when they saw the arm stick out the window and do the shooting, it wasn't a skinny arm. It was a bulky, hefty-looking arm. Well, I was in the passenger seat. You know, I'm not saying it's you. I'm saying that there's four people in the car, but they said it wasn't a skinny arm that stuck his hand out the window. Who were the witnesses? I can't say. Okay. They lying? Or they there? Yes. They were there. Okay. The only witness there was was Shirley Knight and, you know, me. The only one per two persons left. I kind of see this little, you know what I'm saying? He's trying to say it's me, you know what I'm saying? I'm not saying it's you. He's so foolish. Well, but at the time that, you know, that you actually, that Greg Cating met up with you and recorded, you know, the proffer agreement and everything else like that, wasn't there one other person that was still alive at that time? Was it Dre or who? No, they had it went through there already. I was the last one to know it would be done. Okay. So at that time there was no one else alive. I was the last one. The last one. Okay. Fair enough. Bear bait. What do you got? Yeah. This is an interesting one for me because here we really do see some stress. He's got respiration increase. You can see his chest rising and falling. His hand is now starting to really adapt or to comfort. He's petting whatever that is he's sitting on really hard. He's just trying to get comfortable. Earlier we were just all in the car. Now I'm in the right front seat. So he's putting himself out of the ability to do it. He's unwinding the story. Remember in the very beginning, we're just all in the car. So he was trying to set it up when he says he's got a witness. Watch that brow rise. Remember what we've noticed with this guy is when something is hot and something is important, his brow rises above his glasses. We see it happen. We also see him starting to come apart when this happens. When they say, when he says they are lying, he doesn't, he does not attack their facts or say it could be someone else. And he has a little nervous smile that disappears. I mean, it's fleeting and disappears almost immediately when Vlad says, yes, they were there for me. So it's what you got. Yeah. The adaptions on the, on the jacket here, the adaptions on the jacket. And then freeze, freeze response throughout the bulk of that questioning. Then as you were saying, the self soothing on the arm there, we haven't seen that before now. Maybe it's because the camera has gone wider there, but we have been able to see shoulder movements and I haven't seen that kind of level of shoulder movement out of him. So I think it's getting really quite hot here. Single eyebrow raises, double eyebrow raises, single shoulder shrugs, double shoulder shrugs, all in quick succession. Now what does that mean? Well, the quick succession of the means a whole bunch of indecision going on. So look, we're not mind readers here, but we know that the stress is building and building and building around the pressure of, of this really specific questioning going on. We haven't seen anything like this before. Flip flop. What do you got? He says they're lying here. And this is sometimes a good sign that somebody's innocent. But after he says this, there is a tremendous increase in these stress behaviors. Full misads like you were talking about, there's fidgeting, there's posture retreat, self soothing, there's locked down behavior, trying to lock down even further with his hand just jamming into the pocket. There's a loss of fluency, which is where we harder to produce words for him. There's zero body narration. He's not moving along to the story, which is his baseline. And he softens his voice after the confrontation and the denial. So the defensiveness is about the bulky arm. And we see a lot of defensiveness spike right there. So his desire to be significant is still showing through here. I was the last one to know him. And when he says those words and this desire to be seen as significant might point to the fact that he was maybe not the shooter, but that the fame and status associated with his vagueness and conveying the idea that he might have been the shooter is appealing to him. And I think if he, if he wasn't the shooter, there's a strong desire for him to hint that he might have been, which would bring him some kind of fame or notoriety. DJ Kendall, what you got? All right. The first statement as that comes to a close, he starts rubbing his leg with his right hand. Like we talked about before, that's a huge indicator of psychological stress. That lets us know there's an issue here. Now, his voice tone and volume remain fairly low the whole time. At the top of that, he's frozen. It looks almost like when I was watching, I thought, oh, the frame is frozen. But you see just a little bit of movement, but he has locked onto this guy. Listen to what he's saying. And that's really important because that lets us know that he's paying attention hard because he wants to make sure he misses nothing and make sure that he's sort of prepping. So when he gives his answer, it'll be okay to still keep looking at him that hard to make sure the guy believes it. Then overall, he almost clams up as the questioning goes on. It gets quieter. His replies are really short. Then his words are really, really small. And I'm going to say he's fairly quiet during this. I mean, he is a quiet talker, but I think he's getting really quiet on this part. And he's answering from a defensive perspective. But the thing is, he doesn't say, it wasn't me. I didn't do it. He says, I was on the passenger side. And that's odd to be confronted with details like this. And for his involvement in a murder and not saying, hang on, man, I see what you're doing. I didn't do it. It wasn't me. I had nothing to do with it. I know what you're saying. I see where you're going with this, but let's get this straight right now. It wasn't me. I didn't do it. I was there. Obviously I was there. Everybody tell you I was there. Yeah. I said I was there and I'm telling you now I was there, but I didn't do it. It wasn't me. Nothing like that at all. No, he's being defensive, but he's not being defensive in the right way. He's not being defensive in the right way. So that that's yet again, another classic sign of what are Q and I would see as deception. You know, when the incident happened, there were four people in the car. You're the only living person. That was in that car right now. Everyone else has passed away since then. What witnesses were saying though, was that when they saw the arm stick out the window and do the shooting, it wasn't a skinny arm. It was a bulky, hefty looking arm. Well, I was in the passenger seat. You know, I'm not saying it's you. I'm saying that there's four people in the car, but they said it wasn't a skinny arm that stuck his hand out the window. Who were the witnesses? I can't say. Okay. They lying? Were they there? Yes. They were there. Okay. The only witness there was was Shirley Knight. And you know me, the only one person, two persons left. I kind of see this little, you know what I'm saying? He's trying to say it's me and all of them. I'm not saying it's you. He's so foolish. At the time that, you know, that you actually, that Greg Cating met up with you and recorded, you know, the proffer agreement and everything else like that, wasn't there one other person that was still alive at that time? Was it Dre or who? No, they had it went through there already. I was the last one to know it would be done. Okay. So at that time, there was no one else alive. I was the last one. You're the last one. Okay. Fair enough. There was the rumor that after Pocca killed, Puffy gave Zip a million dollars. That was supposed to be handed over and Zip ended up keeping it. And I remember when I interviewed TK Kirkland, who was actually roommates with Zip at one point. They were that close. He actually said, yeah. The fans said that too. He said that actually happened. Well, the story that I circulated was that after Tupac got killed, Puffy allegedly gave the money to Zip. Yes. And Zip was supposed to give the money to Keefe. Yes. But he never gave the money to him. But thank God he never gave him the money. Right? Think about it. If he gave the money, Puffy will be in prison now, money for hire, a murder for hire. So thank God. It's just a true story. I'm not saying yes or no. But if he would have gave him the money, it would have been a murder for hire and Puffy would be locked up. And he basically... Yeah. He even said that in retrospect, that was probably the best thing that could have ever happened to Puffy. By Zip stealing the money, now Puffy isn't connected to that. Or else it would have been like a murder for hire or something. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. If I said it would just... So the FBI told you the same thing? So the FBI told you that Zip kept that money as well? They said Zip's the dirty one. Everybody crossed you. You're the last one to know everything. Even lawyers, your friends, everybody can cross your ass. You just don't know. Even the dudes who was riding in the car with him every day, like a Lodzat. Like what the f***? I mean like I said, Zip had a history of ripping people off. Yeah. He never ripped me off. Well, otherwise he wouldn't... Did he technically do? I mean, if he kept the money that supposedly... Yeah. Is that true? So actually he ripped you off for a million. Yeah. Yeah. If that's what happened, yeah. They showed us that it. The FBI said that. People don't... Yeah. He was attorney's all of it. They said that. Zip's the piece. They said he's the piece. But I... I didn't ever know that he got no money. All right, Chase, what do you got? I'm not going to talk to you guys on this one. I'm going to talk to you. Sitting at home out there. In this one video, I want you to do some profiling work on your own. So I'm going to give you one tool to take a look at this video when it comes back up. And all I want you to do is to apply this one tool to the video while you're watching it. And once you see how powerful this is to kind of see behind the curtain, I think you're going to start using this in your everyday life. So here's the tool that when you use it, I think you'll be addicted to it. So what I want you to do is carefully observe what someone criticizes and condemns. What do they criticize and condemn? So this can reveal a ton about a person's behavior. Let me just give you... I'm going to give you a few things that it can reveal. I'll let you decide what's being revealed here. The first one is values and beliefs because these mirror our personal values. It can reveal some insecurities and some projection. So these are traits that somebody is insecure about in themselves. Some past traumas can come up when somebody is sensitive to some kind of specific issue. There's some cultural influence that can come up reflecting some societal or cultural norms that a person spent some time in. Then we have some personal boundaries that you'll see. And this hints at their comfort zone. So you can start determining somebody's comfort zone. Then hidden desires can come up. This is what they secretly want or secretly want to get behind that wall. Then there's some superiority needs. This is when somebody is trying to establish a moral or intellectual dominance here. And finally we have internal conflicts when they're struggling with something internally or affiliations. And this is their... maybe criticizing because of some kind of group loyalty or bias. And I'll let you take a look. Leave it in the comments. For the first time in my life I will actually open the comments on our videos and take a look. I'll read them. Scott, what do you got? All right. For me it sounds like that he's admitting the money was coming to him for a shoot in Tupac. That's what it sounds like from what this guy TK is saying. And if TK is saying that if he had gotten the money from Zip, you know, if this guy, if Keefe had gotten the money from Zip then the payment would have been made which would make that murder for hire. So what's here? This is the video. If this is true what this guy is saying Puck Daddy's going to prison forever because that's intent to pay this guy to murder somebody. Whether he got paid or not doesn't matter. The money was in the way. On the way it was in the pipeline. And that's why that payment was executed. So if they can, Greg and I talked about this earlier, if that can be traced back to Puck Daddy, he's done. That's it. And that's what the big hoo-ha on the internet is about all this. Because the intent to murder somebody and you paid for it and it happened. But just because the money didn't get to that person, the courier didn't get it there doesn't mean you're not in trouble. Doesn't mean you're not guilty. That we're all familiar with that. That's it. That's intent. And so if they can prove that then he did execute that payment to him even though again the courier didn't get the money to him, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter at all. He's still going to go to prison forever for that. And I think if they'll start, which I'm sure they are, I'm sure that's what this may be the reason that they're brought this back up and arrested this guy, the cops or the FBI who ever got him, that's what's happening. And I'll bet you anything, that's what they laid this whole thing on is that story right there from TK. Greg, what do you got? Yeah. So it's murder for IOU. No difference. If you try to hire somebody to murder someone, you go to prison. It happens all the time. There's sting operations where people try to hire FBI agents. So that part is a given. The interesting piece to me here, and we're talking about it may not be him that pulled the trigger, but his organization, that's what he would be saying is look, this happened. But they don't appear hiding any, there's no logic to the thing. It would, as you said, it would be murder if the payment had been made. No, it still would be murder. However, as he goes through it, he doesn't say this did not happen. He doesn't say any of that. He says, this guy's a scumbag and kept the money. Well, did that really happen? If it didn't, you're pretty stupid to say the FBI told me that and these guys told me that and this. However, I can also tell you this. If I were an FBI agent and I were interrogating this guy, I would do everything possible to drive wedges. I would be hate of opponent, hate of guy who cheated me. I would do all that and I would ensure that that guy believed that there was money hidden his way. Now, the only thing that doesn't make any sense is if I thought there was any way that I would be implicated for killing someone for money, I wouldn't admit it, which makes me now start to go, did that really happen? Did any of that really happen? Or was it just he was angry and they went to do something and he was going to shoot him and, you know, he didn't get shot in the head. We all know Chase, most people can't hit anything when they're under duress. They're shooting wildly and he may have entered into the entire clip into the car and caused a whole bunch of stuff to happen. So who knows? But here you see that he shows concern only one time and that's when he's saying he never stole from me. And then he has to point out, well, if he did take the money then he stole from you. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Which makes me think this whole story might be a little bit of hogwash. Mark, what do you got? Okay, Mark, what do you got? Here's what I want you to do is go back and listen to Greg try and explain the intricacy of this story. And Greg's pretty good at, you know, laying down a linear line of like howl something, but it's hard to follow. And if it's hard to follow when Greg's trying to explain it there's summing up with it. There's something not quite right about this situation. Now, I agree with you, Greg, this is a situation. Now, actually having said that TK is pretty, pretty fluent about how he's putting his story across. Very, compare that with with the guy before and after the fluency isn't so good. So how come one is very, very fluent and the other not so fluent around that? I haven't got any theories around that. What I do have some theories about is just to your point, Greg, yeah, absolutely. If you were at FBI you would use pretty much any tool that you legally could in order to pick people against each other and lay down ideas that might be able to tip people towards giving you information. Also, you might not, you know, if you were one of these guys, you might let a rumor rumor and not go, no, no, no, there's no way I paid nobody any money. You might let that rumor rumor because it doesn't do your PR and the type of person or affiliations you want to be seen as have some kind of resonance and strength. So, you know, is it is it the FBI putting ideas forward? Is it, is it, I guess, puff? You know, allowing these rumors a little bit because the rumors are good, I don't know, but something isn't right about it because it's not a clear story that somebody who is usually able to put a clear story together is able to tell. There's something up with it or something's missing that we're not being told about this or it just didn't didn't happen at all. I don't know which one, but maybe the courts will make that clear at some point. One of those tape replays. There was the rumor that after Pocca killed Puffy gave Zip a million dollars. That was supposed to be handed over and Zip ended up keeping it. I remember when I interviewed TK Kirkland who was actually roommates with Zip at one point, they were that close. He actually said, yeah. He said that actually happened. Well, the story that has circulated was that after Tupac got killed Puffy allegedly gave the money to Zip and Zip was supposed to give the money to Keefe but he never gave the money to him. But thank God he never gave the money, right? Think about it. If he gave the money, Puffy will be in prison now, money for hire, a murder for hire. So thank God, it's just a true story. I'm not saying yes or no, but if he would have gave him the money, it would have been a murder for hire and Puffy would be locked up. And he basically Yeah, he even said that like in retrospect, that was probably the best thing that could have ever happened to Puffy by Zip stealing the money now Puffy isn't connected to that or else it would have been like a murder for hire or something, you know what I'm saying? The FBI said So the FBI told you the same thing? So the FBI told you that Zip kept that money as well? Everybody crossed you. You're the last one to know everything, even lawyers, your friends everybody can cross your ass. You just don't know. What he gave me to do is he was riding in the car with me every day, like a low jack. Like what the f**k? I mean like I said, Zip had a history of ripping people off. Yeah, he never ripped me off. Well, did he technically do? I mean, if he kept the money that supposedly... So actually, he ripped you off for a million. Yeah, if that's what happened, yeah, they showed us that it the FBI said that the people down... they said he's a piece of s**t. But I I didn't ever know that he got no money. Shoot. I got you. They don't want to take the other bottles. I can dig it. I can dig it. Oh, no, I don't... I don't even... Hey, yo, the only thing I speak about is Sirach, man. You know what I'm saying? But... I'm saying we can't sell one bottle and hand it over. I like to talk to my family. Y'all my family. I like to talk to... We're on the same team. So I'm just letting y'all know I'm just trying to get out here hustling, man. I'm an entrepreneur, man. That's all. I just wanted to ask on air, on live, on revolt, you know what I'm saying? We're doing some business together, you know what I'm saying? I'm going to send some... so many damn chases. You ain't have to say it right because I can understand people want to take the bottles. There's a lot of liquor up there they may not want to take home. But they want to take that Sirach home, baby. Let's talk some hip-hop shit, man. I want to talk to Puff right now. Now, it was this documentary that claimed which we know wasn't true. We don't talk about things that are nonsense. We don't even entertain nonsense, my brother. So we're not even going to go there with all due respect, but I appreciate you as a journalist asking. Thank you. That's all you gotta do! That's what artists don't understand! You gotta get upset about the question. No, no, no, no. I'm going to tell you all this. This is very important. I got this new hashtag. It's called New Life. I had to start living a new life, man. The way I was approaching things. The way I was reacting to things. You know what I'm saying? We all grow up. We all do things in ways that maybe you could do better. And I'm just trying to figure out ways to do better. I know I'm in the public eye. I can do all types of different stuff. Y'all have a job to do. It ain't no problem, but I'm in control of what I say. And I don't get in the nonsense. I don't have nothing but love for everybody. God sent me on this earth to give life. To inspire life. To only do things that are positive. Any negative things that I've done. That's the devil at work. And at the end of the day, the devil's a liar. And I can't feed into negativity or anything like that. When I'm in control of myself. So I gotta always be trying to strive and to get better. So I really thank you. It's encouraging that you're saying that you know you feel like you know I'm reacting to things a little better. Cause I'm actually making an effort. And I want to tell people out there like you can change. You know what I'm saying? Well you can change. You know what I'm saying? I'm grown. I'm grown. I think we've all grown. But first on this one, Puff goes from extremely animated to almost a statue again. Just like we've seen earlier with QPD. When the question comes up, it doesn't really get to a question. He just talks about an interview and he sees it coming. And so he tries to shut that down. And we see him get really quiet. He pulls that mic up. He scoots down a little bit. And he takes his pen. And a built up stress intention. That's another way to pacify yourself. And sometimes if you've been pulling on it, we would call that facial distortion. If he's pulling on his face or pushing on his face to make it look different. But he's pushing on it with his pen. And then he starts chaffing and redirecting and ends up talking about God's mission that God wants him to do. How the good things he wants him to do. He starts talking about how he's changed and how things are different. He knows the specifics of what a great guy is now. But he used to be not a great guy. So that to me right there says a whole lot when we see and hear all that. Now at the same time, he should have as well shut this down when that started. He should have said, I know where you're going with this. But you know what? I had nothing to do with that. It wasn't me. I didn't have anything to do with it. I did not do what you're getting ready to talk about. I should have gotten in my opinion. Maybe you should have bowed up a little bit and said, so we're not going there to talk about that. If that's what you're doing, because I see where this is going, we're not doing that. We'll talk about this other stuff. Are we good? And go from there. But he never does that at all. He just keeps talking about what a wonderful guy he's turned into and the mission that God has planned out for him. So that for me is enough in my opinion to go okay and then light him up. That was a normal interview or interrogation situation. That would be my approach anyway. All right, Greg, what do you got? Yeah, a couple of things you already covered. He's got a lot of illustrators going when he's doing this whole he's doing a whole entertainer piece. He's loud. He's doing all that. And then with Charlotte, I'm asking the question about now let's talk hip hop. He turns and he does some appearance enhancement. He licks his lips because he's thinking it's going to be hip hop talk. Not, hey, did you kill? Did you pay to have somebody killed? The minute that happens, the only way I'm going to describe this is he Cosby's. He does Bill Cosby to the letter. We don't talk about that. Remember Bill Cosby doing exactly that to control the situation. Doesn't make him look good. His cadence shifts. You hear a bump, bump, bump change. He goes to internal voice. You see him look down into his left. And after he gets through the whole thing, guys, I'd rarely say something looks like doopers to me. That looks like it to me that quick. We'll turn to the side of the mouth when he says as a journalist. Boom. That to me just does not look good. Then he chaffs and redirects eloquently into how his life has gotten better. A person who's not guilty. We typically associate. Look, we're not telling we can read minds. This is my opinion. If you didn't do anything, you sure need some help because here's the key. You look for the world like you're hiding something when you do all those things. We just said we talk about clusters and chase. I'm sure you'll go down the list of what's on your BTOE. But as we look at it, he's adapting. He shifts word patterns. He changes cadence. His voice gets lower. He goes to inner voice. He changes and gets away from it. Looks like doopers. And then he goes to insulate himself and take high ground or holy ground. All those things make you look put this way. If that happened in interrogation room, it would be bare knuckles. I mean, we would go at it for a while voice wise. I mean, when I say bare knuckles, I'm not to punch you, but it would be a rough ride in an interrogation room because I would use every trick I know to get into your head to figure out what's going on. Those are really big red flags. Chase, what do you got? So I'm just going to break down the narratives only in this. So just the narratives that he's using here. I'm going to leave body language out of it. He says things we're not going to talk about things that are nonsense. If it's someone else's fault, then maybe he can call it nonsense and we'll see where he's going with that. And he says, I've got to start living a new life. And this is about a realization to become a new person who isn't doing bad stuff. And then he says any negative things that I've done, that's the devil at work. This literally says that it's someone else's fault and not his. And this is started getting down a confession route here. This is like pre confession language here because they're showing you the pathway they need to hear to start making a confession. And he says the devil's a liar. And now the person or thing responsible for all of that bad behavior is deceptive. Meaning he might have been tricked in doing what he did. So again, another layer of insulation to make it not his fault. Then he says, God sent me on this earth to give life to inspire life. Looking at what he said and his desire to just live a new life, the opposite of this. And his previous life would be taking life or at least maybe having lives taken, which would literally be the second part of what he said, which was inspiring death instead of inspiring life. Making something happen through someone else. And he says I'm reacting to things a little better. I'll leave that up to you to understand what he's saying. Then he's saying you can change. Now I changed, you can change. So this is all about the narrative of a character arc or a hero's journey, where if they decide to change, they're no longer responsible for things in their past. They're completely cleansed. Then he says we've all grown. And then he says, this guy next to him is grown. He's socializing the issue, making it clear to you that a lot of people have grown. But this also means that he's saying that lots of other people have done bad things and have grown out of the capacity to do them. That was long. Mark, what do you got? Yeah. So here's what I'd say about this. We've got a showman. We've got a salesman here. And the first part of this showman salesman is selling alcohol. I think syrup or something like that. I think it's the type of alcohol. And also managing this barrage. I mean, Greg, to your point of going bare knuckles, he is being rolled by these people around him. He's getting a fare. He knows what's coming and it's already happening. He knows where they're going with this. And so he is there going, can we get on to the sort of, you know, can we just deal with me selling the alcohol essentially wants to get back to what he sees as his job and his brand now, which is to sell alcohol. So there he is in that position trying to control being rolled by these people. And then he changes his control mechanism chased to the narrative that you're talking a whole different tempo, a whole different style around this to now, I think, protect his PR and protect his public representation of himself around this entity that sells you know, some kind of quality alcohol or whatever whatever that is that stuff is never drunk it could be could be quite nice for all I know. Look, the thing is, is what you could do here with your public representation is and relations is to go look you know, this is an idea that we let, you know a mill around it was a rumor. We let the rumor go because it was kind of good for my image at the time but just want to set the records straight. I paid no money to anybody I was nothing to do with this. It was just good you know that that was the the the image we wanted to get across and it was a useful rumor and a rumor was all it is but he's not doing that now I don't know whether he paid money to anybody I haven't zero idea or really concerned about that maybe I should have some concern but I don't really but he's not managing that particularly well so he's not made a choice I think because the choice you got to make a really clear choice here you can't have I've changed my life but I will let a rumor still rumor you've got to be able to go I changed I've changed my life I don't want this brand anymore and it was just a brand it was just a story it was just a piece of artistic imagination and I've left that behind just like other artists would say I don't wear that costume anymore I'm not doing that act anymore my act now is this what he's what he's done is to allow as many great artists do actually is to allow real fantasy to get mistaken for real life and then not correct that other artists do correct it David Bowie would say look I will not actually come down from space but that was the act that I was doing at the time and I don't do that act anymore I'm now doing this act over here very very clear clarification and won't go back and do that act anyway just as you're saying Greg not not great for clarity here not great for control but interesting that we see these two different ways that he's trying to control being rolled by this by this interview one of those tape replays I got you they don't want to take the other bottles I can dig it that's been the same bottle I've been drinking for two years oh no I don't I don't even I don't even hey yo only thing I speak about is to rock man you know what I'm saying I'm going to Angel you said it we can't stop one bottle and I like to talk to my family y'all my family we're on the same team so I'm just letting y'all know I'm just trying to get out here hustle man I'm an entrepreneur I just wanted to ask on air on live on revolt you know what I'm saying we're doing some business together I'm going to send so many damn chases you ain't have to say where because I can understand people want to take the bottles it's a lot of look up there they may not want to take home but they want to take that to rock home baby now let's talk some hip hop shit man I want to talk the puff right now the documentary that claimed which we know wasn't true we don't talk about things that that are nonsense we don't even entertain nonsense my brother so we're not even going to go there with all due respect but I appreciate you as a journalist asking thank you that's all you gotta do artist don't understand people get upset about the question you gotta just say I'm going to tell you all this this is very important I got this new hashtag it's called new life I got to start living a new life the way I was approaching things the way I was reacting to things you know what I'm saying we all grow up we all do things in ways that maybe you could do better and I'm just trying to figure out ways to do better I know I'm in the public eye I got to handle all types of different stuff y'all have a job to do there ain't no problem but I'm in control of what I say and I don't get into nonsense I don't have nothing but love for everybody God sent me on this earth to give life to inspire life to only do things that are positive any negative things that I've done that's the devil at work and at the end of the day the devil's a liar and I can't feed into negativity or anything like that when I'm in control of myself I'm just striving to get better so I really thank you it's encouraging that you're saying that you feel like I'm reacting to things a little better because I'm actually making an effort and I want to tell people out there you can change you can change if you I mean Charlemagne has grown Charlemagne has grown I think we've all grown Mark how's it looking to you so far what have you seen there's some stories there that don't quite make sense there's some stuff I think which is quite clear I tell you what I think right now I'm actually quite interested in this story now I'm actually quite interested in how this how this plays out I might be a little bit hooked to this one as it goes forward that's all I'll say about it Chase what have you got so far looks like there is a ton of concealment and artificiality going on here it's a display a posturing display and Greg earlier you were saying why would he do this want to do that in my opinion he was just grown up in this environment that prioritized significance over safety so his safety matters less than how significant he is to him what do you think Greg yeah I think what we're talking about here is a very complex world number one being the bad guy is the good guy in the world these guys are talking about in fact when you heard this guy Keefy talking about Shug Knight making it to be 100 million before he came back to be a thug look that then is celebrate and by the way that's celebrated in American culture today I say this to young people I meet yeah that guy can get away with driving 150 miles an hour and getting a ticket but you got to go to work next week and you're going to be in trouble so it's celebrated in our culture to some degree but if it's celebrated then things become more and more complex so he has to act tough he has to be this he has to be that and to your point Mark it's possibly that a rumor that did he let a rumor run because it made him have more clout now that would explain also why the complex story from the two guys before from Keefy D and the other guy I'm going to let this rumor play that he was going to pay me this money and do this and that all seems all well and good until it comes down to a point where now it's compounding and it appears that you're going to be locked up and this guy's been in jail for 15 years of his life already he'd be locked up for the rest of your life for taking money to kill somebody and we'll see how it plays out do I see a smoking gun to tell me no pun intended do I see a smoking gun to tell me that this person killed this guy for money no but there's a whole lot of body language it looks like he's tied up in the murder of Tupac now did he piece little tougher little tougher but he did himself no favor by the way he managed that cause be like we don't talk about that Scott what are you seeing all right I think we have a situation like this and you're questioning somebody like Keefy D once you get to that let's say this was an interrogation and this is a different situation and you get all these cues you get all these things that tell you this guy is probably being deceptive or maybe being deceptive you let it lay like that leave everything as calm as it is and you get up and leave for about 10 minutes and let him think a little bit get a little bit up in his head he's been talking slow his thought process is fairly slow everything's just moving along just creeping along at a snail's pace and when you come in after that 10 minutes 7 to 10 minutes passes you come in and you come in hot I mean you come in confrontational and light him up and start presenting your side of it faster a little quicker and from different angles and make him start thinking so he almost gets confused it's almost like a confusion style you do and you start throwing things out in from different directions as he starts trying to answer these that's how in my opinion how you get him boxed in and it wouldn't happen really fast but it would happen I think you get it done in about an hour and a half once you started that happening that would be my approach on it now my opinion on this is and it's just my opinion this is what I think and I could be wrong probably am the whole time everything is just what I think I think maybe this I think maybe pub daddy might be in a lot of trouble from looking at this and listen to all this and I think this this guy key PD is going to be in a lot of trouble as well because everything aligns up to and points to them they were there or key PD was there he had that connection with with puff and that thing's been explained by the guy TK and if they can work that out and connect all those things together that's going to close this that's what'll close the case and they'll both go away forever that's where it looks to me again that's just my opinion Bells thinks is another good and we'll see you next time so what do you got?