 And so then you're looking to sell the business. So, I had a woman approach me. It was one year of negotiations. A year? Wow. So in the 11th hour, I got a call from her attorney. And she's getting cold feet. I'm like, okay. So you're just about to do what? I felt my knees. This is Start Up The Storefront, the podcast where we talk to business owners and entrepreneurs about the untold challenges of scaling a business. We're now on episode 11 and we have a favorite ask from you. If you like this show, don't keep it a secret. Tell a friend about us and if you haven't already, head over to the podcast app to give us a rating and a review. It really does go a long way in helping us get the word out. We've got great guests every week who offer candid looks at what it takes to succeed as an entrepreneur and hopefully you can take something away from their lessons. Today's guest is Jacqueline Bradley, founder of Epophan, an independent candle in Epop the Carey studio. She has a special offer for all of you that I'll let her tell you about. For all of these Start Up The Storefront listeners, we are offering 30% plus free shipping on your first candle order. Use the code startup at checkout. I've been using her candles for a couple of weeks now and can honestly say that my house has never smelled so good. Head on over to epophan.com to shop her collection. Now back to the episode. Welcome to the podcast everyone. We have Jacqueline from Epophan, a new candle company that you're launching. Thanks for coming on the show. Thanks for having me. You talked a little bit. You've been an entrepreneur for 13 years and your first introduction to it was a clothing company, right? Correct. He's in Michigan. And you were doing it remotely, you said? Yeah. I lived in Los Angeles and I for 13 years, almost 12, ran stores on systems. How did you do it? So originally you were a buyer in the clothing world. Yeah, I started out when I moved to LA to be an actress. And after about two years I was like, well... But you did it, right? You did some acting. Oh, I did. Yeah. Amazing. What'd you do? Care to share? You know, yes. So I was on the first internet series. So now there's so many YouTube series and internet series. But we were a scripted show specifically on the platform of Sprint Thumbs. Cool. And we actually won a new media Emmy. Wow. Years later. Emmy award-winning guest today. That's amazing. Wow. Thanks so much. Honestly, it was like four years ago. And they're like, we really love what you guys did. You were like pioneers in the space. Could you come out to New York and present for like new media Emmys? And they're like, yeah. Sure. It was on that show with me. I mean, I saw people that I was like, I was like 18 years old. Wow. Do you have an Emmy? Do you have a physical? No, I think producers got whatever it was. You got to keep that. Yeah, bomber. Yeah. That's so cool. So you left acting at some point? I did. You didn't like it? You wanted to do something else? No. It felt weird. So I'm classically theater trained. Okay. So I worked my entire life in the theater. Okay. Went to a private school for theater. People went off to New York to pursue their careers. They were going to school. We had already gotten what would be a four-year education in performing arts and theater when we were reading from lighting, makeup, set design. It wasn't just acting. Okay. Writing. We had to know everything. All the hats. Yes. So by the time I was 18, I was like, I just got an education. Wow. So why would I go spend four years tomorrow submitting a duplicate? No, it makes no sense. Sure. So I had one way to get to LA. From Michigan. From Michigan. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. And had you been here before or no? Never. So one way to get, you've never been here before and you're like, I'm going to do it. That's great. It was like on my vision board growing up. Wow. I was like, that's where I'm moving. Everyone knew it about me, too. They were like, Japanese women with LA. You're right. You're right. I'm too cool for missions. That's awesome to have that kind of conviction at a young age. Totally. It's really cool. I really wanted to come here and act, but because I, that's what I had done for years. I told people that's what I was going to come do. It's a logical jump. Yeah. Yeah. And it was just, it was tough. I mean, anyone will say that, but when you work so hard at something and it's not giving anything back to you, I just got, yeah, my spirit was broken after a while. Okay. And I stopped only because I started working for a woman in Beverly Hills who had clothing stores. Cool. And the, basically why I would shadow her and provide a year of shadow and everything she did. And then she would go to like Paris to go buy jewelry. And she was like, well, the clothing is up to you. And we bought weekly. Things would turn over so quickly. What year was this? This was 2006. 2006. Okay. And so a year into that though, I was like, oh, I could do this for myself. Yeah. You liked it. You like buying new clothing. What kind of, was it a specific fashion? Yeah. Okay. I don't know what that means, but. What we wear. Yeah. This. You'd be there too. I'm a young contemporary? Yes. Great. Thank you. Neutrals. Got it. Yes. Close that. A lot of coffee carry goods too and accessories. Amazing. I've actually carried all my competitors now. Yeah. I worked for her a year into it. I was like, I called my mom and I was like, I'm going to open a clothing store. Like this is the jam. These margins are the same mom. She's like, why this, what's margin? Yeah. Great. You're like, don't worry about it. It's going to be great. Yeah. I was like, I'm doing it in Michigan. You're moving back. And I was like, absolutely not. You're moving back to Michigan. I'm going to run these long distance. And I say these because they're going to be in two stores. Amazing. And so the thought process was you're in LA and you're in some way you're like ahead of the fashion curve. Right. And so you're thinking if this works here. You're buying for trends. You're buying for what's going on. You're going to be introducing that to the Michigan market. Right. All totally. And they were a little bit behind also as you guys know with the seasons like we don't have any here. Yeah. But I understood seasons there. Totally. There's some buyer from out here. Yeah. I know what the Midwest wants. Yeah. You know what they want. Because you're going there. It's funny. So right outside here, there's our neighbors are putting like Halloween like spider webs and pumpkins. And I'm looking at it like this is the strangest thing because in New England. The leaves turn colors. Yeah. It gets colder and the things make sense. Right. I drove by a pumpkin patch the other day and I was like, this just like fake. This is not for you. Yeah. Next to a palm tree. Yeah. No. You guys don't know what fall is. Yeah. So then how did, so you're, did you buy, did you sign a lease? Did you, how did your mom look for office space? What was that like? So retail space. Retail space. Yeah. She did. She's a commercial loan officer. So she kind of knew the area well. Yeah. And she was like, we're going to do this. I was like the town you are in. It was not a town that I grew up in. Okay. It was Midland, Michigan. And that's sort of Dow Corning, Dow Chemicals headquarters. Okay. So there was a lot of transplants, a lot of people missing their big city life, I think, and there was nothing there. Like 2006 in a smaller town. Wow. So she found a space, one of her clients wanted to put someone in the other half of their space. So they bought the building. They had a music center and then nothing in this other side. But it was also at the far end of Main Street. And I was like, mom, no one walks this far. Yeah. But it was all that we could find. Yeah. So you created a destination. Yes. That's amazing. All of the stores were actually destinations. What was the name of the store? It was a Thalia's boutique. Cool. A Thalia. What is her name? Who's a Thalia? So a Thalia's, I wanted an A, I don't know why. I think it's still back in the days of like phone books being the thing. Yeah. My sister came up with a name. It's a Greek mythology name. We're not Greek. And she was a sort of sweet sad story. She had lost her first baby. And she was going to name her a Thalia. So I was like, well, let's keep this name alive. Yeah. That's a beautiful name. So it meant a lot to us. Yeah. When people ask, I'm like, oh, it's just Greek mythology. Yeah. Super good luck. Yeah. And hindsight, I would have been more thoughtful with the name. That I don't remember any name. I did not. I just thought of that. There's themes here. Yeah. So we started out in that one location. And after two years, another spot in the middle of the street became available. And I picked up and moved it in two days the entire time. Wow. With all the fixtures. And you did that remotely or did you fly back? I flew back. I flew back once a month. Okay. How much inventory did you have to buy up front? Do you remember? Was it like a $5,000? No, it was a lot more. Okay. So I filled the space. So I started mapping out, I think, you know, Apple does this really well. They take their square footage and they want every square, every square foot to be X amount profitable. Yes. And so I started doing that and realized I needed $25,000 inventory. Okay. I needed every square footage. Was it just clothing or was it also like... There was some accessories. Yeah. There was some apothecary. It was sort of the beginning days of what Anthro does well. Yeah. Apology. Yeah. Great store. So you're buying $25,000 worth of inventory. Yes. And hoping it works out. All on credit cards. Oh, whoa. Yeah. Awesome. I love that. Yeah. Like 0% credit cards at least. Like for a year. Yeah. In your name or other people's... In my name, my mom was so generous too. She was like, if you need anything. So I think she helped with the build-out and things like that. Awesome. She had friends who could do it. And you knew it would work. You had seen the person in Beverly Hills do it well. And so you thought, well, if we do have... I guess the margins... And the rents are way lower there. Oh, that's another story. So... Yeah. What are the rents? The rent of what LA rents were? Oh, God, not even. So that first space, I think $900 a month. No. How many square feet was it? That one was 1,300 square feet. What? The next space... It's a San Francisco studio. That's a San Francisco mansion. It's a closet. Yeah, it's a closet. Yeah. Maybe this dining room. Yeah. And then the second space I think went up to $200. And then this killer deal came through. This woman, who my mom knew, was like, I'm building this new closet. And the other side of town, literally corn fields behind it. But that's the Midwest area. Would you want to be sort of this anchoring store? Can I get you to come in? Oh, the anchor tenant. Very nice. Yeah. How big was that store? Oh, my God. It was huge. 3,000 square feet. Wow. And now do the math. That's going to take... Yeah. How quickly did you see a return on your $25,000? Or at least you recouped your initial... Big from like opening day. Six months. Okay. So it took a little while. You were introducing it to the market. Yeah. And it's because I wasn't there. Yeah. So we had no one working for free. Yeah. A lot of people were going and working their own businesses. Yeah. And that's helpful. I couldn't do that. I didn't want to be the one to do that. Yeah. And it took a step, you know. Yeah. And that's what it was. And we wanted to treat them well. That was my first lesson at 22 years old. Yeah. And I run a business. It's to treat people that work for you. Yeah. You have the best you can. And this is cash. But I mean, like a large percentage of your money coming in is cash. Absolutely. It's 2006. Yeah. Right. Square isn't even out yet. Yeah. And so. People wrote checks. Yeah. Yeah. You're doing the credit card thing. And writing drivers license number and. Wow. All that stuff. So we had quick books. For our accounting. And I think it allowed you to run sales. That's good. But it was almost too much of a nightmare. Pain in the ass. Yeah. Yeah. Do that. Totally. Like manually. Right. And here's your receipt on a printed eight by 10. Yeah. Yeah. Carbon copy. Cool. So take about six months and during that time where you your I imagine introducing new inventory the entire time. So you're still investing. Yes. In buying. Yeah. And are you. It opens in October of 2006. Okay. So it's cool to kind of and I recommend this for anyone. It's a great month to open. It seems like every time I watch. Because of the holidays. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone's like fresh and excited. Yeah. The seasons are changing at least there. People are back to school. Yeah. There's no fracture focus for them. Yeah. And you're gearing up for holidays. It's the worst time to open a brewery. Is that? Yes. Why? Why? Because during so what happens it will quick tangent. What happens on breweries or distilleries or even coffee shops is during the holidays most people want to save their money for gifts. And so they want to go buy retail. Right. And your clothing. Yeah. And so they stopped going to bars as much. Interesting. Yeah. And they start drinking usually at tax day when they get their refund back. Wow. So like. Harding spring. If you look at. What about Christmas party season? Yeah. No, it doesn't work. No. The brewery season is like April to Thanksgiving. I didn't know you guys had a season. Yeah. That's fascinating. But if it's still Thanksgiving then October would be good. Right. I'm just giving you the data. Wow. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. So anyway you're opening in October. You're taking advantage of the holidays. Yes. Holiday was incredible. Yeah. And like I said we're the big fish. Yes. And people love that. And the cool spot. We're number one clientele is hairdressers. Really? Yeah. Because they get to wear what they want. Yeah. And they want to look good. Yeah. They're almost like the bartender kind of. Yeah. Where it's like cash on hand. So that's where a lot of the cash would come in. Yeah. A couple of women who from salons. There's so many salons like churches there. Yeah. So they want it in every single corner. Yeah. Yeah. Like this is me pulling my hair. Yeah. Right here. So they were a big clientele and I would cater to that. So I was learning who they were. Yeah. And never once you were like, you know, do you think you should be in your business? I designed it so I didn't have to be. Yeah. From the get go. And when I would come in once a month it was, we had 12 lifts to kind of party. Not like Japanese here. Yeah. But we do some kind of event. Yeah. And that was before I think like experiential things were big. Like now you can go to any pop up or whatever. But we were always hosting other business in there. Cool. Or having cocktails. Yeah. All of that. So. Did it impact you in any way? So Michigan, it was. Right. It was interesting, but it didn't. Okay. It didn't affect my business. Wow. And they were like, wow, you were in business right now. Why do you think that is? Michigan. My hairdresser still kept coming in. People will still buy what they want. And my prices were affordable. So they probably stopped a few of their luxury things. Yeah. Okay. They started, and I paid attention to that too. I stopped getting high-end denim and like the leather and the boots and things like that. So I started getting pieces under $30. Nice. And that worked. And even though that was a little more fast fashion than I would have liked, I knew I had to do that stain business. Yeah. So you shifted to accommodate that change. Yeah. Time period. Yeah. We used to say you can get anything in there under a high-end, which is still. Yeah. Amazing. But then to be able to go and get almost anything for $30. That's amazing. Yeah. I'm sure your clients appreciated that. Yeah. That's a great story. Like were you thinking, I'm just trying to think out loud here, but were you making a website or were you shipping it back to LA? So anything that wasn't moving or if like this season all of a sudden now wasn't appropriate, I would have them ship it back here. Okay. And I would just like literally unload it in my living room and my friends would come over. So every time my big snap works here. What a good friend. Yeah. Nice. But I could recoup my copies. Yeah. And then I would just roll that right back in. Yeah. Okay. Actually, only ever had one small clearance rack the entire time I was in business. That's amazing. Yeah. And I would just put it on there and stay at full price or bring it to LA. My friends would take through it. Yeah. And I'd get my cost back. Yeah. That's so smart. That is smart. Once you start to do things on sale, it becomes tough because you educate the customer on. Yeah. That you're valued. JCPenney built a whole business on it. Everything was always on sale. Yeah. And it worked. Yeah. Until it didn't. You're conditioned. Yes. Yeah. It's kind of a bummer. Yes. Did you go online at any point or were you thinking of? Yeah. We made a website. So we all really have to imagine 2006. Yeah. 2008. Yeah. This is clunky. Clunky. Yeah. We just put up a bunch of images with our address, how to contact us. But in that role, I'm sure a lot of people who have small and petite, you know, would say the same inventory terms over so quickly that by the time you photograph it, you're just disappointing. Yeah. People must be buying in such large quantities. Right. You're like, well, we have one extra small and one large left. Right. That's it. It wasn't really worth our time. Yeah. This is funny. Were you using MySpace or Facebook for your business? We did. So everyone that worked for me outside of my store manager was still in college. And Facebook was like the rage 2004 or five, six. Yeah. And I think in the beginning, you had to have a college email. Yes. You did. So that was part of the interview. You'd get invited. You'd get invited. Yeah. College email. Yeah. Post about us. Yeah. And I got on board at their school. They had a really big fashion merchandising department. Okay. So I got on their board and I helped dictate the curriculum. Wow. And I really had a degree in fashion merchandising. But you have a store and a brand. No. And I knew what our customers would want. And so my guarantee to that department was I would always hire as many interns, paid interns. Yeah. Through their department. As long as I could kind of stand on the board and help. Yeah. And that's a great way to get the best of the best in that in that world right there. Your fingertips. That's great. And was it just you or did you have a business partner involved in the clothing company? No business partner. Okay. So as I wanted to transition out. So 10 years goes by. I'm exhausted. Mm-hmm. Flying to Michigan once a month. Having to wake up on East Coast time every day. Opening the store with them in real time. Just sort of fielding calls. Yeah. Looking at reports. I would go by daily. Because I noticed that worked for the woman I used to work with. So how did that impact your day-to-day schedule in LA? Trying to find for the shops. Five, six in the morning. Look at the reports. And then I would head downtown. And I'd start buying by like nine o'clock. Wow. They would give a new shipment every single week. Oh my goodness. Wow. And I would do a lot of what I could here. So I would get it entered into the system. Yeah. Eventually we did move over to a POS system. Yeah. And got really sophisticated after a while. But I would do all that. That way they could spend time on the floor. With customers. Yeah. You know, now I hated walking in stores and seeing girls like tagging and doing other things and not paying attention to the customer. And we didn't have the luxury of having more than one person on the floor at a time. Yeah. So I did that sort of back and work for them. So 9 a.m. you're buying and then you're shipping daily or weekly or? I'd come back. This is, I mean I was, merchandise is heavy. Yeah. So I was packing it up in 20 by 20 boxes. And then bringing those boxes to FedEx by myself. How many boxes? Like 10 at a time. Wow. So you're like a professional mover. Yes. Yeah. So when I go to visit it, I only flew south-west because they give you the two big bags for free. Right. And I load those with merchandise. And I just use my carry-on for my own personal things. Yeah. And then I was free shipping. Yeah. What's your other? I didn't know south-west. Oh yeah. So for my project sites, a lot of them are outside of the state. Yeah. And my crews fly all over the country. Michigan, we just did a job in Grand Rapids. Yeah. And they fly all over and we try to fly them southwest as much as possible. They just brought like two tool cases and stuff out there. Yeah. Iowa. Yeah. Does. Yeah. It's a huge tip. That's really cool. I had no idea. So then you're looking to sell the business? So I had a woman approach me and asked if I could consult. She wanted to open stores. She wanted to open stores in my area. And asked you to consult. That's okay. Interesting. Yeah. Wait. In your area in Michigan? To compete with you. In our like, they call it the Tri-Cities. Okay. So like in the Tri-City area. No. In literally a light bulb went off. I was like, you're tired of this. Sell it to her. Like easy. She's trying to create that for herself anyway. Right. And of course I'll give anyone advice. Yeah. But I mean that was a little too close. Yeah. Like literally you want to build a store seven miles away. So I presented that to her. Not even, I thought she'd laugh or something. She was like, that's a great idea. I didn't want to ask you. But. Yeah. She didn't want to ask. Right. She just wanted what I had. This is a great, great lesson to always ask. And to always put your foot out there. You never know like who is holding back. I disagree. Why? What if it was her idea the whole time but she wanted you to say it. Okay. That's fine. But like. I'm just saying. Okay. There's an inception component. You would have had to have the wear with it all and have it in your head to be like, I think this is going to be a better option for anyone. Yes. So to always put it out there. Right. You know, instantly. Right. So you're interested or she's interested in the process. Right. What's your first step? You guys are reviewing the financials or. We do. So I need to come up with what the business was work. Yeah. And. How did you do that? So quickly. Good will is a big part of this. Like. Yeah. It really is. And like. What do you mean by that? So I realized that I was a big part of it as well and what I built. So. Right. More so the customer base, the loyalty, the employees that I had. The relationship with the university. All of that was like built up and how do you put a price on like, listen, like I have an intern system. Right. Set up like maybe. My board seat or whatever, like things like that. Yeah. How do you replace your impact there? Right. And know that it's all going to go to a good place and. You can't. You can't. Right. You just have to model your valuation based on your revenue. Absolutely. And a lot of it was, you know, just arbitrary in that way. And I was like, well, prove me otherwise. Yeah. I think that's worth 20,000. Yeah. It's worth. She'd come back and say something. One year. A year. Yeah. Wow. And in that time was she trying to build her own thing still or no. Did she table that to find out. This seemed like this was really going to happen. Yeah. And then she had set on a third location where she originally wanted her first store to be. So what we ended up, we came up with a number. It was probably about 30% less than I really would have wanted. Okay. And I'm sure it was 30% more than she really wanted to pay. Yeah. That's how you meant it all. Yeah. Was it like one or two times revenue? I just decided at the end of it, even though we broke it down, it was one-hands revenue. Right. Any year. And at that point we were doing a quarter million dollars for one store. Okay. And we added in the second store and then I said also I would stay on this consultant because we realized too, it was my eye that kept this going. My access to things quickly in Los Angeles. So I also put myself in there and I had a job lined up for the next year, which was great. Yeah. I thought that was cool because I didn't really want to part that quickly. No. And were you still buying for them? Yes. I'd still have to stay the buyer. So in the 11th hour, I got a call from her attorney and she's getting cold feet. When I say the 11th hour, so I jump here. He's my, you know, state husband, partner, life partner. Amazing. For 12 years. We're not married, but engaged. So people are like, what's that? Yeah. Totally on a curve whistle. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So JP decides, he's like, wow, like this is amazing. Like something's finally paid off. I think I can take a break. I'm going to go to Italy with my friends. Wait, what? Yes. And like not really on my dime, but kind of. Yeah. I mean, what? We're going to be good friends. No. And before it, before it happens. And he's on his way to Italy. Huge lesson. Effectively. In Italy. And I get this call. JP, come on. Yeah. So at first. But you're home and you're like, okay, screw me. I just built up this huge business and now I'm selling this opportunity. You're going to Italy, but you're here. He's the first to celebrate in my mind. I was like, maybe I'll go. This is so strange. This is a red flag to me. I don't know. This doesn't make any sense. So. Whatever. So. So he said, well, I get this call. Yeah. And when you say the 11th hour. You just so you know, never do that. I don't have it in me to. First of all, let's start with this. As an entrepreneur, I'm literally very frugal. Just naturally. Everything you see here is Natalia's. I have a passion. Entrepreneurship world. So I could live in a shoebox. That's from a flea market. Anyway. And you never sell it. I mean, in real estate, you learn this quite literally. And you learned it, right? You don't celebrate. It's just go for free from some random. You don't celebrate at all until there's signatures. Yes. Done, done. In your case. The money in the bank where you're like. Right. The wire has gone through. It doesn't move it from like your savings to your check-in. Yes. Yes. It's real money. When you say the 11th hour, was the signature like expected that day? Okay. Yeah. And you get a call in the morning. She doesn't want to go through with the deal. That's insane. Hard no. And it's not your year? It's not. We'd like to revisit some points. We can wait. Is this an emotional response to everything? And he's like, this is, you know, it's her decision at the end of the day. I was like. Was this the first time you had spoken to the lawyer? Or were you guys in contact? We were in contact just going back and forth. Okay. Between his lawyer and my lawyer. Got it. You know, with the terms. Yeah. Of everything. Good enough guy. I'm so sorry. He didn't update you before this. There was no like mumblings of this at all. No. So then do you contact the owner at some point? He said she wished not to be contacted right now. I'm like. Okay. So you just left with what? Well, I felt my knees crying. It's a horror angrily called JP. Like. Get back over here. Yeah. Naturally. Because all of a sudden I'm like, well, this was the year of my life that I spent. Literally going to that for my business. Yeah. You know what I'd go, why it's worth this dollar. Okay. I'll take a discount there. And it was exhausting. Yeah. I had said goodbye to my staff. Oh, it's making me emotional just thinking about it. Yeah. Essentially they were part of the deal. Like they could choose to stay if they wanted to. But you know, they were. They weren't going to be fired. Yeah. And it just to then I almost fell into it. I was like, I have to walk back in and be like, no deal. Yeah. Okay. Just kidding. Yeah. And not only that, I started to make other plans with my life because that was so many years of my life. Yeah. Yeah. And I didn't know what I wanted to do with that money, but I knew it wasn't necessarily that. And I just wanted a moment to breathe again and figure it out and find more purpose than what I was doing. But because I had already disconnected, I was like, I'll just. That's so tough. So you closed. Well, I didn't tell anyone. So I went back to Michigan. You didn't tell anyone about the sale. Or the clothes. I had to tell my staff. Yeah. Like, hey, we're going to, you know, let's resume as if everything's normal. I kept buying a little bit, but I knew I was like, ironically enough, it was in October. I was like, I'm going to go back for one month and I'm going to wrap up shop for one month. So I showed up October 1st. And I didn't bring any merchandise to me. And that's the first thing. I mean, she doesn't have any suitcases. Yeah. Right. And I did a couple of pop-ups, which we've done in the past, but I definitely was taking inventory out of the store and was showing up at spring universities, worry houses, moving it at full price. I was like, I'm not going out with discount. No, no, no. You're going out and giving them an opportunity to buy there. And it's a unique experience. Yeah. And it was all a new merchandise. It wasn't sort of that leftover stuff anymore. Sure. And then in the last week, I made an announcement, but we did it, I think, really beautifully on social media. It was, I had a friend who's got their campaign. She has a social media marketing company. She didn't charge me really. I think her heart was broken for her, too. Yeah. And she just made these beautiful images and these kind of cool quotes that, like, it's a new season for us. Like, it values us growing up and moving on to things. Yeah. It was so eloquently put that you were watching it. You're like, oh, my God, this metamorphic. Oh, wait. They're gone. Yeah. And yeah. And we basically sort of like gracefully thought out. Yeah. And you could get out of your leases no problem. You were like... So that's the beautiful, like, sad story. Oh, wow. Okay. Of the sale. I don't know. I'd like to say, yeah, the emotional whole no was maybe why she backed out, but it was on the space. So specifically, we had the least terms. This was the pause. I was in the anchor store to bring everyone in, which more people came. Yeah. My terms were incredible. So for this 3,000 square foot face. Because you're the anchor tenant. You got a good deal. Yeah. That was in bucks a month. For 3,000 square feet. Are you kidding me? For brand new builds out. It was stained concrete floors. I think we had like 23 foot ceilings with rafters. Beautiful lighting throughout a back room that was like, we had a small gallery kitchen. This is like a furniture showroom. Yes. What? The bathroom, like it was stunning. What? It was the wallpaper. It's amazing. It was incredible. Drinking champagne. Yeah. And we were in there for 3 years of 1,000 dollars a month. So during the terms of the sale coming up. Wow. You know, I listed what we were paying in rent. And she wanted to keep that space. And she was just like, oh my God. Yes. Yeah, of course. So I called the landlord. And I was like, hey, you know, I'm in the middle of selling the business. We're staying. Don't worry, the new buyer wants to stay in there. I just need you to transfer the lease to her as a mistake. Can you get this drawn up? We've done XYZ work for you. Yeah. Same store, same name, just different owner. Yeah. We just need to put her name on and take my name off. Yeah. And she's like, not a problem. She calls me. And so this is a few months before we're supposed to close. Yeah. And she says, holy cow. Jeff, how have you flown under the radar at $1,000 a month? I was like, I literally send you a check every month. Like, I'm not sure. Yeah, it's not bad at all. Flying under the radar. I exist. Yeah. Right. Seeing you walk by. There's no way I can extend those terms to her. And I'm like, okay, well, you know, maybe that's something you guys can discuss. Yeah. Getting out of this. Yeah. So I call her as like a courtesy call. Yeah. Give her a high five. And I was like, listen, she's not going to do the same terms, but how far could she really jump from the constant? Right. Three times is what she wanted to jump into. And now she's probably thinking like maybe that store is not 100% worth it or that location. So I think that's definitely something serious. That's hilarious. But that doesn't make a break of business. Right. That's just one location and that's just one ramp. One line item. That's what I said. It was a selling point that I had going for me. We'll discount a little bit. Yeah. Sorry that didn't work out for you. Yeah. The revenue in that location is our oldest location. Mm-hmm. It fully supports that. How do you think it was able to run this business long distance for all these years? Right. The numbers were always there. It worked. Yeah. Still gonna work. It was just fine. Yeah. Thousands of beautiful numbers. Yeah. But that was part of my decision too. So the landlord not only said I won't do that for her, but starting January 1st. Yeah. I'm gonna bump you to that rate as well. Wow. And could do that legally based on your lease. Yes. Based on the terms that we had. At that point I think we were months from a month or something. Wow. We both had to wait in and out so easily. I understood. Yeah. That is a great rate like I just said. But for me once again, my heart's broken. Yeah. I spent a year breaking up with this business. And I'm like, man, we're gonna pay for it now. There's no. We're not. Yeah. So you did a renew. We didn't renew. We were about to gracefully. And you had to pay your lawyer. Yeah. That's the worst part. Oh my God. Yeah. That didn't change. She was like, oh shucks. Yeah. Yeah. Well, bye. He's like, here's this invoice for your travels. Yes. That's the worst. He's in Italy. I was like, at you? He's with your lawyer in Italy. Oh, JP. I'm the lawyer. I got a yacht. One of us is getting paid today. Wow. He was on a yacht one day. No. Get off the yacht. I'm not paying that bill. Get off the yacht. I'm not paying that bill. That's outstanding. He bought the yacht. Surprise. Yeah. Surprise. Same lawyer was involved in that transaction. That one went through. So then what happens? What's your next move? You're still in LA. You're a little upset. I'm still in LA. I am. But I have this itch for brick and mortar. So I'm in an area where we're up from good milk. Her shop is. So it's Washington's. Episode two on the podcast. Brick. Yeah. Brick. She's awesome. Yeah. Next door to her, she was renting a space from a woman who had a body studio. And their lobby just had nothing going for it. And I was like, I can make the store. So just like the lobby area, the front of it. Yes. Okay. Got it. Yeah. And I knew that they only put up a wall between Brooke and her studio. Yeah. I was like, could we knock out this so I can have access to, like, books, customers. Your customer is going into the body studio because you're doing nothing with like this literally storefront. It's super creative. Yeah. That's great. And it's like 300 square feet. Right. It was a friend of a friend. And she's like, sure, this number 1000 keeps following me around. She's like, yeah, just pay me a thousand bucks. I'm like, now for 300 square feet, not 3000. Yeah. Right. Right. So I did it. And then we had it like custom fitted with these beautiful racks. And it was like a little jewel box of a store. But I did quickly realize it was like, I've never been in my own stores like this. So I'm not there literally for a customer. Yeah. Like not knowing how to use the POS. Probably I'm like, I want to give you a discount. But it was taken. Yeah. Yeah. That was a big part too. That was the learning curve. I was like, no, you, you like the business side of this. Yeah. You've never been in there. Yeah. Like, oh, Susan, that's great on you. Right. That wasn't me. Right. So after about 60 years. I like that her name is Susan. Yeah. Oh, it's definitely Susan. Yeah. Yeah. You're definitely telling Susan. How's Jack? Or Linda, right? Yeah. Linda. Right. Karen. Yeah. 100% Yeah. Sorry. These are all my second grade teachers. Yeah. They're all my aunts names. Yeah. Yeah. Same. So six months and I, it was fun because they let me blow the hole through the wall. So I got to hang out with like Brooke and her like juice and milk crew, had the bodies people. But that area is still under so much development. Yeah. It's so cool. It's really cool. It's a cool vibe. We're going to be like in great companies soon. Yeah. And I was talking about the development across the street, which is kind of happening now. Yeah. But now he's just going in at the corner. And I was like, there's still not here. Yeah. Development takes time. So much time. To struggle. Yeah. And it was more like a passion thing for me. And I couldn't get it out of my blood. I was like, I just love this retail thing. But after six months, I was like, after holiday was over, I was like, I don't know. And JP's back from Italy at this point. Yes. And what was that like? What was he doing? When he comes back. When he comes back. I don't hear what he was doing there. Yeah. No, no, no. Well, sure. Throw him under the bus while you're at it. That too. He's a baby moon for guys. His wife. I'm sorry. What? What? Was the wife there? No. That's not a baby moon. It's a bachelor party. Yeah. That is not a thing. It's a baby bachelor party. I'm having a baby moon every weekend. That is a bachelor party. He shows up. Yeah. No. You're not having a baby either. What is this thing even saying? Is he a good salesperson? How did he convince you to go to Italy one, two for a baby moon? It's not his baby. And the wife is there. The mother of the child. Maybe he should have sold your company. It's in there. I think so too. I could have put it in there. Wow. I know. Okay. That's interesting. Yeah. But you have to break the news to him. Do you do it on the phone? I do it on the phone. And it was devastating for me. I was like shook by it. It was like my first real heartbreak with the business. You know, things are tough in business, but I think what I did learn from that is I could have better, better protected myself. Oh, by the way, she has stores now. No. In the area. So I think only that was sort of, I never had anger. I was like, I could have like, I could have better protected myself with that. Or at least you couldn't open for one year thereafter or whatever it was. Yeah. And that was never in place. So that's like my biggest takeaway from that. It's just like protect yourself. Yeah. Yeah. So essentially I did consult for one year. Yeah. That's what happened next. You taught. And you gave her all the info. She saw your little bit. And then she just took that. Yeah. Oh, that's too good. I don't think it was her intention for doing it. Sure. But that's part of it. Yeah. Then she got literally everything. My, you know, dozen years of experience in a year. But not your time now to now. So you did the six months in the store and now, and then what happened? Would you? So we had already started, I actually started the Camel company with a friend of mine. A poppin? Right after a poppin. Yes. So for people who are, can see this, we have, or are listening, we have all these candles in front of us. Super beautiful. Why did you decide to do a candle company? Out of everything I sold. So a lot of it was, we did about 75% clothing. The other 25% was apothecary and accessories. And what I loved the most. What's apothecary? Apothecary are candles. So. It's a good, I don't know what they are. I thought it was a brand and you were saying it. Well, it's an anthropology dude. That's anthropology. Wait, so what is it? Apothecary. For people listening, not for me. Right. Can we talk about what? It's definitely for you. Let's be honest here. I guess it's the intersection of like, wellness goods and beauty goods. So you could call like bath salts and apothecary items. Okay. So. Perfume. Candles. Okay. So the things like at the front of the register. Yeah. And okay. Candles is one of them. Yes. Books that you put on at a coffee table. Maybe some coasters. Home and gift. That's home and gift. Yeah. Well, hold up. Not apothecary? So here's a good analogy. Okay. Why don't you just tell them what it is? Romeo and Juliet. Do you know when they want to like go out in their life together? This is a good example. They go to an apothecary, you know, this sort of guru behind the apothecary who makes them their special elixir. So back in the day, it used to be like, take this for your ailment. It's like, There would be a chemist that would like put things together. A natural chemist. Yeah. Okay. So the chemical oils fall under that. Absolutely. Okay. Yes. I think everyone at home has it. And it's part of our name. So a pop in is the first few letters of apothecary. The last few of doyen. And doyen is that sort of throwback word to a predominant woman in her field. Wow. It's like a ranking woman. Doyen. Doyen. I like that. No, I've never heard that. Wow. And that's only because in the beginning we actually had a... Doyen. We had apothecary though. You know what's funny? I heard it on the last baby moon I was on. We were playing around with baby names and doyen came up. All the guys are doing... All of our apothecary. An apothecary review. And doyen. Doyen. Yeah. Thank you for the introduction. So I just have to know like, what was he doing when he got back? You know, obviously his trip got cut short, I would imagine. The bus just keeps coming for JP. I have to know this. Because if you were doing this, I'd be like, why don't you just stay in Italy forever? You know? He was coming to an end. I think he was there the whole week. And I think the whole point of the timing was he would end up coming back in time like for us to like... To celebrate. To celebrate. And just like, whoa, like I kind of needed in there because there was gonna be a morning I'd wake up in what I've known is no longer mine. So in the end, I think he came back like two days later, but that was after like me breaking down on the floor. Yeah. And he was really supportive. Okay. He's always had a really great nine to five corporate job. Okay. He's an IT auditor. I don't know what that is. It's apothecary to me. You either. He's not doing it yet. No. No. Okay. He's not being supportive. So you're doing 25% of the goods that you're selling are apothecary. Yes. And you candles are a percentage of that. Yes. Okay. As well as the fragrance, body lotions, all of that. Okay. And I selected a lot of brands that I loved and what I was noticing was a lot were really unclean. What does that mean? So the ingredients that they're made with, the same way with food that you would always check your ingredients level. Yeah. I started to look into some of these candles and products and they're full of parabens, petroleum. Eugh. Some wicks are made with lead inside of them. What? And they're burning that in your house? Yes. It's equivalent to, and so I won't say any brands specifically people consume. You can't. No, I'm just kidding. We're already trash Trader Joe's in one of these episodes. Right? You're kind of suburban mall brands. Yes. A few of those. Oh. Yankee. Whoa. Wow. Whoa. That's a Massachusetts staple. You. Oh, okay. Okay. Sorry. So my goal is, eventually I think there's going to be a lot of regulations. Yeah. Like there are now about what we burn and what can be put in candles. And that's where I think I'm a little different. I'm going to stay ahead of that. Yes. Do you think like the, the EPA or that? Prop 65. The FDA will. Yeah. Especially with the wicks, with petroleum, it's equivalent to lighting a pack of cigarettes. Like that would be like lighting a cigarette and putting in an instant holder. We don't have cigarettes here. No. And just letting it like, be in the house. Carcinogens. What? Endocrine disrupting. Wait, really? People don't know this. No, they don't know it and it's not regulated. How did you find out? A little bit of research. Okay. And then there's people doing it right. Yeah. So there's, there's that group. And then there's people who do, do 100% soy. Mm-hmm. Their oils are naturally derived, either essential, or you can do synthetics, but there's a small roll-in-ex of synthetics that you want to use. Okay. And I think synthetics do get a bad rep because just the word in itself, but out of like 3,000 fragrances, 300 of those are actually wildly safe and really sustainable. Okay. No, no, allergens, carcinogen-free. So we just do our research heavily and make sure that we're using either those. Yeah. Or pure essential oils. Okay. And all are blended with that. They're all skin-safe, which is nice. And they're free to burn in houses with kids and pets. There's been studies that people who were burning sort of those suburban mall brands for years, and they had to redo the ductwork in our house. Wow. And they would come in and they're like, how are you guys heavy smokers? And these people are like, they're smokers are alive. Just like Yankee Kid is everybody. Yes. And they had to redo that. So that's what will happen if you're in a house. Really? With sandals burning? Yes. I thought they were just wax. No. If you have a pitcher on the wall as well, I mean, you know, one of those craft candles, you would take the pitcher off and you would have a ring around it. The book is the few smoked in your house. Really? Yeah. And there's no regulation around it, but there is education. Sounds like, Okay. I feel like we need to put out like a public service announcement. I know. That's why I still go out and I'll do events and fairs because, not because I would rather go to the beach on a weekend, but it's to educate people. Yeah. And I don't think they know. Okay. And I think candles are sort of a mystery product. And I also think there's a misconception with like essential oils as well. Yeah. Synthetic. So that's a big component. And then the wax. So we use, and I know you mentioned it earlier, 100% soy wax. Okay. That's a great wax. Anything. Do you buy, like so. We buy soy wax. Oh, I should have brought you some flakes. Now, how much are you buying? Are you buying like pounds, tons? We're buying by the pounds. It's white. It's a white, like a brick. Just like, what the wax looks like, right? Yeah. We do flakes because it'll melt a little bit faster, but you can buy it in like a brick. And it doesn't smell. There's no. It smells really nice. It smells natural. And then when you, so then you add scents to it, oils to it. We do. How do you do that? So you melt. Yeah. So you would melt it to 180 degrees, but 1805. Yeah. And at that point, you need to pour within 10 degrees of that. And then you stir it in. And then pour. How much do you add? Is it like droplets or is it like a shot? It depends on how strong you want it to be. Yeah. There's different percentages. So each type of wax can hold a different percentage of fragrance. So there's different types. Okay. I got you. 10 to 12%. So depending on how big the candle is, these are 10 ounce candles with a seven ounce fill. I like to go on the highest fragrance load that we can. We like to put in here about 0.75 ounce worth of fragrance. Okay. So we need to get those little essential oil bottles. That's almost the entire thing. How do you pick the oils? Yeah. This has been three years of like refining things and blending things. Mm-hmm. I like to have a little bit of a variety, but I'm not trying to appease everyone either. Yeah. Okay. You don't have any that smell like sugared Covey Doe or something like that. That's just funny. Autumn leaves. That's an honest laugh. That's an honest laugh. The harvest, which is kind of autumn like, but it's more cinnamon clove. Like this one. Mold cider. But where do you get the oils? Do you... Are there oil companies? Yeah, there's oil companies out there. Okay. Got it. And her suppliers... That's her newest one. That's like a summery one. Ginger, amber, lotus flower. So Natalia's smelling one of the canals for people listening and she's in heaven at present. She's floating if you guys can't see her. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that one's really vibrant. That one actually, we brought that in a few months ago and it's already number three at our top seller. That's what it smells like. This is what it smells like when you're just laying there and like, you might still have some like tanning oil on. It started to sound like a commercial. And you might have like a pita colada next to you but like in a water. Can you hear the waves? Like napping before you go out to dinner. And that's this. And that's this. Wow. That's nice. How many do you make per cent? That's this one. We, we court order. So our big business is wholesale. We do direct a consumer with, you know, online sales and events. But honestly, I, So most of your business is wholesale. As a buyer. Yeah. And I, I set this up to, to be a product they would want price point wise, quality wise. How much is each candle? These retail for 32. That's pretty cheap. That's cheap, right? So, we like to say we're affordable luxury. Yeah. Where do you get the glasses? So, we, we have a local company here. These candles touch so many hands locally which is so cool. Okay. I first go pick up the glass. It comes clear with no prints on it. I bring it, if it's going to be amber, we have a guy out in some valley who then ampers it. So that same glass gets amber. Then I take the clear glass, the amber glass, and I bring it to someone else on the other side of town to then put our logo on there. Is it a sticker? How is it on? No, it's straight printed on the glass, which is really cool. How do they do that? How do they do that? Isn't that awesome? It's not real. It's done by hand. It's beautiful. Yeah. So they make, the same way you do a screen print, they have a print and the guy holds it and he rolls it through and actually the clear with the two colors goes through twice because he has to put that copper back through. And then it goes under this sort of heat dryer and it dries up. It smells delicious. Blood orange. Yeah. Oh, it's a good one too. So good. Yeah. I think we'll have some specific. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Don't judge me for this candle alone. Can you tell any vacation? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So our vendors, we have seven vendors to make that candle. What are the costs of making the candle? I'm sure she doesn't want to reveal that, but let's just Okay. Less than $32. Yeah. It is. Yeah. But our margins, so we obviously support a really strong wholesale business. Right. And wholesale deals are typically 50% of your retail, right? Yeah. And that's what we do. Okay. We charge 28 to 32. So it's up to them. Yeah. Got it. And we give them that. And you still have margin on the 14. Absolutely. Big advice I always tell people is when you're starting a company, make sure you run the math on the wholesale because a lot of people think, oh, I'll just sell it to a wholesale, 80% of my retail price. Right. And that's just not the case. Any good wholesale or retailer is going to purchase your product for 40%, sometimes 50%. We had to deal with Barnes & Noble and they were like 40%. That's it. Wow. And I was like, but we had margin. But you had, you could support it. If you can't support it, then that's all right. Right. And we thought, well, that's fine. We have the margin. I have a guy who's setting stuff up for us right now. And he was like, I did the math first. And I was like, isn't it about right that I'm only getting about 50% of this? And he was like, that's incredible for Amazon. Are you kidding me? I was like, really? Because I was thinking as a giant wholesale account. But I'm thinking after all the fees. Yeah. Are you doing FBA? Whatever percentage of the fee. Also, I think a lot of people don't know this. When we offer free shipping with Prime, it's just awesome. Like you're still, you're still paying for it. Someone's still paying for it. You're paying for the shipping. It's not free. Right. A lot of brands, you'll see if you, if you were to even go to a store or on their own website, it's a few dollars more on Amazon. Yeah. But it's free shipping. Right. Well, it's better that way because you hate seeing let's say 40 bucks and then you see it $6 and shipping. And you're like just, I'd rather just bake it in. Yeah. It's smart psychologically but also living in LA for me to go somewhere and buy something could take half an hour. It could take 45 minutes when I can just click online and it'll be there the same day. What? What? It's your time. That's true. My time is precious. So, but there's margin baked into your candle company even with you shipping them. Correct. Which is great. And so, and they're heavy and so the shipping is maybe like five bucks. We actually charge $8 on our website. Okay. Just depending on where it goes to. Yeah. We do a lot of free shipping promos. Yeah. And that's always fun. That's like our number one thing. So. So the margins are there and I think. Which is great. You did the math. It works. I did the math and that was the first part of it. You know, and I want to support the retailers. That's the big thing. And when you're meeting these retailers, do you know them because of your experience or is it? So we hired a showroom downtown. What does that mean? To represent the products. There are sales reps. Cool. So we're in a showroom with probably 30 other brands. There's two other brands. But we're all in the same wheelhouse of home and gift. Cool. So a buyer goes in there and they're just like, oh, we can buy like, you know, really beautiful journals or you know, the candles are in there. They do a lot of kind of cool kid stuff. Thanks. Tara, who was previously on. Yeah. Tweet. Yeah. Tesoro. Yeah. She has been going to that showroom for I guess like 20-some years. Wow. They've been in business. Like, they're kind of the OGs of home and gift world and all of them are amazing. So we give them, they get a commission. It's 15%. Okay. And we also pay a showroom fee. We have, we're represented in L.A. year round. We're represented in Atlanta showroom year round. And then they take us to New York now, which is the biggest home gift show in the country twice a year. Wow. And for $17,000, you can, you can spend your year doing that. So, 17,000 plus 15%. So just, just to be in these showrooms. Yes. Where did you learn of that? From being a buyer? Yes, I was a buyer and I would go shop in a showroom. So I'm like, I'm not gonna. I had no idea. So instead of you going to all these trade shows, you can just hire a buyer or not a buyer, but a showroom and they go out and sell it for you. Yeah. And as long as you've done the math and the 15% margin that they take is baked in. And a showroom cost. You get free, effectively free marketing, free labor. I hire a sales person. Right. It's very expensive. 16,000, 17,000. I'm going to start and I think this will make I'm ready. Wrapping the brands. Yeah. Kind of the moves. Yeah. But then you also like, I've had a vocal call and I'm like, hi, I'm Linda from Atlanta. From Atlanta. And they just make it, I'm like, well, unless you can, can you send it to me? Can you call me to me? Also, they're thinking I'm in Michigan. I'm in LA. I'm like, I'm in LA. What showroom are you in? Yeah. And if they don't have one, I'm not gonna buy or what shows will you be at. I'm in LA. I'm not gonna see your product. So I knew going in that, that would have to be the first investment. Yeah. And it's paid off. And same thing. Credit card. Credit card and my own personal savings. Yeah. JP hasn't taken a trip to Italy in a year. Exactly. He's sitting at home waiting. It's just like, I can't wait to quit my IT auditing. He is. He's gonna love this. I know. You know, it's tough. It's tough. I'm sorry. I'm gonna be this JP. Right. Broke kind of did this a little bit too. And I was like, oh God, can't wait to meet your husband. We love dentist. I was actually in Broke's wedding. Oh, nice. Amazing. Yeah, they're a great hospital. That's awesome. So right now, you sell online and then wholesale. Will you also do Amazon fulfillment or eBay or no? Are you focused on the wholesale? We've been on Amazon for a year with one product sitting down there because once I got in there, I realized it's so sophisticated. You really have to know your way around it and there's experts for that. Around what? Around Amazon. It's not just the same as your website where you put up a product description and a picture. No one's gonna find you. Yeah. No one's gonna like It's all SEO. Yes. And that's something I don't know. That's another big thing. I know what I don't know and it stopped and worried about there at Tech and I'm hired for that. Yeah. This is actually what Brian did. JP, was he able to do any of this? He's helpful in terms of like auditing. Yeah. Oh, he loves to say, wow, you're profitable. Yeah. Penciled. Yeah. Thank you. Everybody just do the math. I mean, that's the biggest advice. Add the shipping, add your showroom cost, get that into your business and make sure it pencils. Yeah. We labor in there. Yep. I went and sat with an accountant, a Brooks accountant. He was like, whoa, so you went to business school and I was like, no, it's not about business school. You don't need that. You just have to be smart about your numbers. Yeah. Like it's such a small cost. It's seven cents. That could make a break after a while. Totally. To one where money goes. Right. There's a glue dot that sticks into that. It's one cent. Yeah. I put every single thing into that. You have to. That's smart. And then you have beautiful packaging also that you've invested in. Yeah. They're actually pretty well- Packaging's expensive and it's tough. It's hard to, it's hard. And it's custom sizes for this stuff, right? Or maybe it's not. It is. Yeah. I mean that could, if a case breaks, so we have like little inserts all the way. Okay. To keep it from rocking down. Yeah. But if it drops that rim around there, it's gonna protect it. We can stack them on top of one another. Wow. It makes an impact on the shelf. Yeah. No, it's beautiful. It looks really good. Definitely. Now the names. How do you decide, so we're looking at this one. It's called Flower Child and then this one is called Bourbon Sandalwood. Ooh. How do you come up with the names? The names are really just specific. A lot of them are just like vanilla. You're driving Nick crazy right now because you're making all the sounds. Sorry. Ooh. Smell that one. Tobacco vanilla. That smells, that smells like Christmas to me. That's nice. That's nice. It's the person who wants that sweeter. Yeah. But it's not like caramel vanilla, you know. What? That's nice. How do you, how do you decide on the names? The big potion was the hardest. I'm sure you're hearing Nick. I was like, I'm sorry Nick. It smells like the beach. Back away from the candle. At the end of it it was just like playing along. Yeah. You guys can't see Nick but he is pacing up and down. So mad. Put it on the clock. Coy, is it just taking over the calls? The name, it's important. When you're selling online it's important because I think sometimes people will buy it based off the name and our descriptions that we use. We don't have it as we were talking about it. It made me think I should. So we do a smells like which we could list the notes. Smells like ginger, amber, coconut, pear. And then it feels like feels like coming back from the beach on Saturday. And then we do pears well with. Ooh. What do you list in there? So we'll say like good company or Motown Records. Ooh. So it kind of I was thinking wine but that's the alcoholic in me. We do do drinks and wine. And I think people love that. It's so interesting to me because when I think about naming an item, if you're going strictly from a tech component, you're thinking no one's going to Google bourbon sandal with candle. Right. Right. But they will Google maybe they won't. I don't really know what they would Google for a candle. But if it was a product it would be like red t-shirt, black shirt, white t-shirt and it's descriptive. If they're selling what they want in it it'll be 100% like the ingredients if you are going to get sometimes they say soy blend. Soy is not the only great one. You could do coconut or apricot wax as long as it's either blended with those three or 100% pure. I have one of those. Got it. Anything else you're probably getting bottom of the barrel petroleum. That's disgusting. Yeah. Isn't it disgusting? Is it bad for you? Yeah, petroleum. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think so. I mean one like you're fine or you're sitting in a restaurant that didn't know better about what you need. You should be mindful about what you're using about this product. That's not what's in Vaseline, right? I believe it is. Petroleum jelly is what Vaseline is. Yeah. We're just trashing all the brands today. We're going to throw that away. That's gross. Yes. And so most of your business is wholesale? It is. But we do have a division. We do custom handles. We white label for a lot of people. Interesting. Yeah. This is what some money makes for you guys. Yeah. This is like you show rooming. Yeah. Right? Yeah. That's awesome. So you have like a candle making. So one revenue model is you take, you have excess soy, let's say. And so you just put it into motion for other brands. Right. So do they give you like a flavor profile or what they want is a smell ink and then you make it and then they put their label? They're coming to us because of our integrity and our ingredients. We're already vetting all that. I love your candles. Can you make our candles? Can you make ours? Yeah. Okay. Wow. Sometimes my vendors will call and they're like I just had someone come in. I told them about your company. They own a denim company here in L.A. Would you make their candle? I was like I'll talk to them. We require pretty high minimums. Of course. Higher than full sale. Yeah. What would be the M-O-Q? 100 units to start. Okay. It seems like this pink one over here but for the most part because we're taking from our bulk inventory then I can keep the price what it is. And you're moving excess inventory. Yes. Which is amazing. You've really figured this out at every angle. This is I like it. So I direct people and I also make sure that we put our brand on the back. This is created by a potting with our small triangle. I would never straight up when I say white label I've had someone call me on it too. They're like she's she's a stickler stickler for words. Oh yeah. Yeah. No. No. But you are by putting that on there. Yes. Yeah. And then we're on there and I would want other people to see that because for me at the end of the day I have a brand and I don't want to be removed from that brand. Totally. Yeah. And people will pay more for a good quality product from somebody that's reputable. Yeah. I think it's good that my friends are in food and beverage. Yeah. So we've done Sweet Laurels, Candle, Al, Venice, they're like the bone broth companies. Yes. We're actually we did go out of our box and we did one for the parks apparel. It's like this women's sort of cool camping apparel. They just do really beautiful things. Cool. They have these enamel camping mugs and they're like can we turn these into candles? Yeah. That's great. We usually do 10,000 but for you guys. Yeah. For you. Yeah. We can make this work. And they're really cool looking. That's awesome. So how do you grow the business just getting in more stores? Is that your That's right now that's the model I'm working towards. How do you do that? With like Patagonia colors on them. I love Patagonia. That would be cool. So how do you do that? So let's say you reach out to a company. You send them to the product. Yeah. And then is it as simple as they like it right? They usually write orders the same way fashion works. You know, months in advance. So in February they wrote for what they were going to be getting for like three, four months. Yeah. And then when we read the last show in August they wrote all the holiday going into even like beginning of spring. So I kind of know in advance what we're looking at with wholesale orders. Yeah. All the while we're acquiring the business. So our retention rate I'd like to get that up. So someone asked me that recently. We keep about 60% of our people but all the while we're replacing whatever drops off. When you say your people you mean your accounts? Our accounts. Yeah. In stores. Got it. Yeah. We have like a low point of entry to grab the products but I think sometimes people will test it. I see. We ask for 18 units minimum six of each cent so you can try it you would get like three of these literally six of each and you can have in your store. Wow. That's such a small amount to have to. Very well done. But then I think you know when they sell out there's other cool exciting things that these stores you kind of get forgotten to knock on the door. Can you tell a reword like oh yeah. So do you have people that like knock on like say like doors of boutiques? We still. Yeah. Our sales team is always working for us but I never stop. So I acquire just as much business as they do for ourselves and it's usually the larger ones that I can get. It's smart that you do that. I mean the CEO has to be at some point very involved. I'm thinking of like four home housewares shops I've walked into in the past like week that I'm like you know I'd be like yeah sweet let's do it. Yeah. I don't know. I still walk in we make these sample packs so I go as well I made a tea light of all these scents put them in a small pack the line sheet was like the little postcard within it and I send that and it feels like a gift. It's so smart. It's like not just an email you literally got everyone in my candle small granted a tea light is not going to have the same throw the large candle but they understand that and that's huge and it blows my mind when I've given everyone this idea or even beauty companies that send these samples beautifully packaged I mean there's so many this is the thing about entrepreneurship it's like a lot of the things that you're saying make perfect sense but that's what distinguishes you right and so because you actually do it and I think that's what separates you from most people which is great because you're actually doing it yeah what's next for the brand are you thinking candles for the next two five years are you thinking you'll start here so the company into other I call this a home fragrance company with our flagship product being candles okay even though it's kind of our it is our only product right now we sell matches these whip tremors right here which are awesome are incredible it's a nice piece also but it's practical also how clean we just talked about the candles are if you were to relight you know a wick that's been lit over and over again that charred top right there that has carcinogens in it take it off right you don't want to relight something burnt yeah there's nothing good in that so that removes it it also keeps your hands clean and it's something you want to keep out and same thing with the cloak yeah I was I was telling Diego when we came in if you want to put out a candle you set it over top it takes the oxygen away and now you don't have a smoke filled house right it undoes the beautiful scent you just lit now it smells like a child's birthday party put that over it oh Susan's birthday yeah anybody so would you recommend putting it over it right after you blow the candle out no you you put it over to blow oh that's like a yeah see that's not common sense to you but apothecary what is the word apothecary see I don't know what that means that's obvious to me that's just science and wouldn't you want that sitting out what's the little one called that you they used to use snuffer yeah that's it another great name like you get them wet and you put it out and that will stop the smoke too yeah that's all in how you want to try try not to do that but as we progress into more products this is what I want to do I want to offer something beautiful functional functional yeah and we do other fragrances like for people like cologne's perfumes yeah yeah I would love to we're actually playing around with room sprays some people just don't like lighting things yeah they have kids around so we'd like to make the entire reflection accessible to room sprays like furniture sprays yeah cool linen sprays for everyone where they can find you and your product and you personally yeah so well you can find me at Jack L. Bradley on Instagram J-A-Q L. Bradley B-R-A-Z-L-U-I and then a poppin is just out of poppin A-P-O-T-A-G and we we've been playing with taking off the Los Angeles because our trademark is actually just for a poppin so we can be a poppin in any city yeah true and if you're showrooming everywhere then whatever it is yeah cool well if you're interested in candles please check out a poppin a poppin the top one for him well thank you so much for being on the podcast and sharing your story super inspiring this is amazing we here at Start at the storefront would love to hear feedback from you reach out and let us know what you think about the show make sure to give us a rating on iTunes anything over five stars is the only way to go our music is composed by DoubleTouch you can find us on Facebook and Instagram at Start at the storefront for more information on the products and businesses featured on the show check out the links in the show notes make sure to subscribe so you don't miss a single episode thanks for listening and we'll see you next time