 so welcome thank you yeah and of course I think most folks know Jonathan is chairwoman Rosemarsle's wireless advisor and his you know many years experience in the wireless bureau and was telling me he spent long years in the coal mines of the millimeter wave among other bands so so Jonathan the you know as I was you know sort of suggesting they are private mobile networks or I'm sorry public commercial mobile right for for personal communication typically get all the attention and most of the prime spectrum from an FCC perspective do you see an increasing role for LTE and 5G networks using shared spectrum and and how did they fit into the ecosystem well first let me say thank you very much for having me and again just to reiterate that the chairwoman sends her her regrets and it's a busy time and she really wish that she could have been here but I'm thrilled to be here it is Halloween so you never know that this could be like a Scooby-Doo moment where I just peel off a mask and it was the chairwoman the entire time but to your question you know private wireless networks are already proving to be a successful solution for connectivity needs for a wide array of users and industries I mean one of the things that we've seen is that they can be tailored to meet specific needs around coverage around latency around reliability and security to suit whatever the end use that some of these network operators and industries need and we were chatting a bit about some of our favorite examples and I just wanted to share a couple with the folks here today and in the agriculture sector we're gonna hear from John Deere later but there's these large like industrial greenhouses and vertical farms and they use private wireless networks to connect to sensors that they put in all their plants that can sense humidity temperature soil moisture and it provides tons of data which really pays dividends as far as yields coming from these farms and utilities this is an example actually learned about just a couple weeks ago utilities are using private 5g 4g networks to develop a new safety mechanism in which you have a power line if it becomes detached from the pole and starts to fall it leverages an LTE network to quickly signal to de-energize that cable before it hits the ground we're talking a second and a half and that it's you know a huge for preventing forest fires in particularly like dry areas and for keeping folks on the ground safe they need the latency that comes with a private LTE network to make that happen within a second and a half those are you know those are some really specific applications but like the city of Las Vegas is building out one of the biggest 5g cbrs based private wireless networks for government use to make available for educational institutions and for local businesses I mean that's on a much bigger scale and then lastly in one of the FCC's establishing innovation zones which are these you know experimental licenses on steroids cover entire metropolitan areas and in particular in this case in Boston Northeastern University is showing how private wireless can be a test bed for innovation that can span the entire wireless industry and because they've developed a production ready open-ran 5g private wireless network it's fully automated through AI and so that brings the benefits of resiliency and self healing and so it really is cutting-edge technology that was developed in the test bed of private wireless networks so you know from the smallest seedlings to like of the largest cities these networks are game changers they support innovation and competition and job creation across multiple industries and so you know we're we think that they can really pay dividends for for industry and for you know US success great and we'll hear about some of those shortly so on the the spectrum side of this you know your boss the chairwoman was you know a decade ago and a very early supporter and strong advocate for CBRS when there was at a time when it was this has never been done especially not a three-tier sharing and especially around the military so how from the Commission's perspective you know how is it working out so many years ago when for when NTI first identified the 3.5 gigahertz band as you know a particularly good band for sharing the response was kind of a collective shrug you know there wasn't a lot of interest because you know there was I think there was a lot of perceived challenges with sharing the band with some of the federal incumbents in it and I mean to put it bluntly you know I think a lot of folks were we're kind of saw it as a as a junk band but but as the FCC and our partners and NTI do we got creative and the result is now we have CBRS which is a fertile ground for innovation for wireless uses and and we're gonna hear all about examples of that today but this is a story that we've heard before like going back even further 30 years ago there was another set of so-called junk bands that folks thought there wasn't really a good use case in 900 megahertz 2.4 etc. and where most folks thought it wasn't worth a lot of time a small group of FCC engineers really looked at those bands and thought that they could challenge the status quo and make these bands available for unlicensed use and what followed there on I mean I don't think they could have predicted this but it was revolutionary I mean what came with it was innovation without permission it was spurring a whole new ecosystem of wireless devices and use and basically it's become the foundation for our everyday lives right now and and of course you know the best known development out of that was was Wi-Fi but you know CBRS is kind of emblematic of that creativity in wireless that happens first year in the United States it builds on the past creative spectrum policy with its innovative multi-tier access it throws in a little bit of you know technological ingenuity with its dynamic spectrum sharing and then it distributed the pals using an auction and which is probably one of our biggest and most innovative and most highly exported pieces of spectrum policy and you know and as a result you know the band's flexibility can accommodate this wide variety of uses and use cases and we've seen that from the start you know at the outset with the auction which I was on the front row of as chief of the auctions division and spent many hours in the war room watching as bidding went along in auction 105 we saw unprecedented diversity in the winning midders there were 228 winning bidders for a total of 20,000 pals and a lot of diversity amongst those winning midders and then in the years since the auction growth has continued both using GA and pals we've seen a lot of new entrance and again this is I think the fantastic theme of this program is the diversity that we've seen wireless internet service providers cable operators as you mentioned utilities educational institutions and so one of the benefits of CBRS is that users have the chance to kind of pick their their point of entry between pals and GA and that can support you know different use cases GA in particular it's flexible it's low-cost it's the same equipment that you were gonna be using for for a pal license and the same technical rules and so it's a fantastic entry point for folks who are looking to innovate in the wireless space and to build out their their networks and so actually I had a stat here but I think you've already you've already corrected with me when we were talking backstage I think there was an industry report that said there's a 900 or over 900 distinct users in the CDRS band but it sounds like it's it might be over a thousand now I think I heard bright Andy thousand yeah yeah that's that's astonishing I think that's my staff from 900 was from September so I mean that's continued growth and users in the GA space are even more diverse I mean research facilities hospitals factories as we'll hear public libraries and school systems etc so one of the key lessons I think from CBRS and all the work that has gone into it and all the use from CBRS is that its its innovation is a is an iterative and collaborative process there's a unique partnership between the FCC and TIA Department of Defense to work together to build trust amongst the stakeholders and to keep iterating on the sharing mechanics and you know since the the last CBRS order coming out of the Commission staff has continued to work with federal partners to develop and implement your refinements to the to the process to to further expand spectrum access and and to to really facilitate the use of the band and the coordination between all the entities that use it and a quick side note on on that front a lot of acronyms come across my desk out as everybody's with who work in government and work in the telecom space but when one of the most recent actions we took was working with NTIA and DOD to set up TARDIS 3 which is a new scheduling mechanism I'm sure as most folks in this room know for CBRS the 12 year old doctor who fan in me immediately saw that that jumped out of me I was just like whoever came up with that I please let me know I would like to shake their hand because I think that's one of the best acronyms I've seen in DC in a long time so just a quick pivot you know while while 3.5 and CBRS are kind of the stars of the show today you know we're not resting on our laurels we're taking a look at other ways that we can think creatively to bolster private wireless networks and innovation in that sphere and so just a couple that immediately jumped in mine versus 42 gigahertz you know that's 500 megahertz of Greenfield spectrum with no federal or commercial incumbents and so we wanted to throw out some ideas out there to see how we could explore a non-exclusive access model to give some innovators some access to millimeter wave spectrum a lot of which has already been auctioned off and so our goal is to come up with a new model that lowers barriers to entry particularly to millimeter wave and to maximize opportunities for new entrance there so another just quickly is 12 gigahertz looking at a variety of different uses from licensed fixed and mobile to unlicensed there six gigahertz and unlicensed we're making sure that Wi-Fi is not going to be the bottleneck and again and the theme of innovation our automated frequency coordination system is testing is underway that's going to provide folks with access to standard power unlicensed in that band which is going to be a game-changers big channels can fit in there so a lot of new use cases can come out of six gigahertz and then finally the lens through which we view all of this is captured succinctly in our our spectrum policy statement from from April which essentially just says that interference mitigation it's a two-way street so by recognizing that and thinking through spectrum policy through that through that mindset you know there's the opportunity that we can fit more services into these bands and to facilitate more sharing opportunities in the future yeah okay and I'm glad you mentioned the you know sort of clarified about that that unique combination of both the auction pals and the you know free to use GAA because even you know we've noticed now since cbrs launched commercially three years ago a dozen countries mostly in europe you know have been adopting what the u.k. started this shared local shared licenses but they're just licenses they're not there's no there's no general authorized access associated with it it's not automated it's still kind of you know command and control to some to some degree so um I mean do you think that's uh gonna help us keep our lead in yeah so in spectrum innovation and what that does for you know for productivity and connectivity here yeah so you know global global leadership is has been top of my mind we're we're in the final sprint to the world radio conference you know that's where uh gathering of officials from across the world to try to chart spectrum policy for our region and globally going forward um and so you know us leadership in wireless is paramount because the benefits of being a first mover in this space are huge for for our economy and for national security um again pardon to one aside but you know one way that we can can demonstrate uh our leadership is by restoring the commission's auction authority which uh as I mentioned was so effective that at dispersing pals to a wide variety of licensees um next week it'll be eight months since the expiration of that and you know every minute it's uh exacting a toll on our our 5g leadership and consume exact it's on our 6g leadership and so you know we need to get that reinstated uh stat because as we've seen um you know innovation can come in a lot of forms with gaa and come in a lot of forms with uh auctioning pals as well um so that's a big priority yeah well which reminds me of kind of this larger spectrum debate right now um wanted to ask you about the lower three gigahertz band below cbrs um from from an FCC perspective what is you know what is the status of a this you know of a decision to allow commercial access and sharing you know from 3100 to 3450 because there's actually a pending proceeding you know which we did the which which is captioned 3100 to 3550 we got a hundred megahertz you know taken care of a few years ago but there's the rest of it and uh is the FCC able to take i don't know to take any further steps take any further comment now or does it need to wait for nta a to make recommendations well i at the outset you know there's a limited amount of greenfield spectrum out there and uh ever-creasing demands skyrocketing demands for spectrum so it's important to look at any way that spectrum can be shared effectively and some of that will be you know particular to the characteristics of a given band it might be dynamic spectrum sharing it might be another model like some of the the things that we're exploring with 42 gigahertz and so you know the commission is committed to working with our our partners in the federal government to ascertain when where and how spectrum can be shared amongst federal incumbents and non-federal licensees um and the the paths process was was an example of that and so for the commission's part we are we're ready to fulfill our our obligation of moving forward with an auction and for any of the spectrum that's that's identified through the department of commerce report and continuing to collaborate with our federal partners on this going forward so okay let me ask you one last question in there we'll get scott up here next is you know i mentioned in my introduction and i'm sure you know well that so you know we have the the homework app is back you know i think you know the emergency connectivity fund is largely run out so there are a lot of there was a lot of pandemic support for getting low-income students online there were 12 million without internet access at home before the pandemic there's many fewer now but even affordable connectivity program is running out of money unclear if that will be you know refinanced um but we do have you know one innovative thing as you know we're here today for example from the Fresno public schools turning their schools using their schools as towers leveraging cbrs to connect low-income students at home directly at home to the school's network um so does the the chairwoman see schools and libraries and and these sort of um you know somebody's local solutions is playing a role in closing the homework app well i you know it goes without saying that closing the homework app is one of the chairwoman's top priorities and and i find it interesting that in just like the five minutes we were talking backstage that we thought of like two more examples of of schools and libraries like innovating in this space and leveraging cbrs that that i hadn't even heard of like a small school district in utah that um during the pandemic was able to to build out their their own cbrs network to make sure that their students were getting connected um you know i think it's an all of the above approach to address the homework app part of it is recognizing where spectrum resources like cbrs can be effective levers to to help with network access it's part of it is is uh making sure that unlicensed access those those last to the device wi-fi devices have the capacity uh for uh for all the the video traffic at that school and in in particular and and work in healthcare carry with it so we've been focusing on on uh after the uh emergency connectivity fund um the learn without limits initiative which recently announced the opening up e-rate funds for use for wi-fi on buses which for students in rural areas we have really long bus rides to to games and from back and forth to school that turns that into productive homework time um and the affordable uh connectivity program of course which is still um connecting a lot of households um and so you know i think that we're looking for ways that we can continue to uh uh foster the ingenuity uh in some of these schools and it's you know cbrs has been a fantastic tool in the toolbox for a lot of these school districts um to be able to to connect their students okay well thank you for thank you so much for having me filling in and joining us today yeah we appreciate it allow me to appreciate it yeah oh we could just you could drop that off yeah um right so let me uh you know bring up uh scott harris who i've known for a long time was the you know senior spectrum advisor um to uh to the assistant secretary to to alan in ntia and is really managing the national spectrum strategy in that in that role uh one of a number in government which i won't list you all have uh bio brief handouts you can read all about scott background but uh we get get you up here got this all this equipment so it's great to join you all here today uh thank you for inviting me um but i thought i'd begin today by talking about my two-year-old granddaughter audrey now speaking completely objectively audrey is perfect no really she's perfect and i have a thousand pictures on my phone that i'd be happy to share with you later today i wanted to put one up behind me but they wouldn't let me for some reason um but why do i mention audrey this morning other than the fact we're going trick-or-treating in a couple of hours so she recently began going to pre-k and as perfect as she is there's been an issue she goes to school each morning with two stuffies one in each arm elmo and mama cat and here's the problem she won't share them with her friends you saw that coming right um so her parents are explaining to her that sharing is good now of course sharing may be more important for spectrum than for stuffies though if you ask audrey's parents it's a much closer call than you think at some level of course pretty much all spectrum is shared the real question is how many different or different kinds of uses need to be accommodated in the band and how difficult it is to accomplish that so i thought i'd take a few moments today to talk about ntia's view of sharing generally and of cbrs in particular if we talk about spectrum sharing we must first talk about what the phrase means it turns out that not everybody means the same thing when they use the phrase spectrum sharing who knew uh going back to audrey uh i can tell you that letting one friend play with elmo while she plays with mommy cat gets a very different reaction than if they take both her stuffies away and share and give them to other kids at ntia we think there are lots of tools in the spectrum sharing toolkit we consider for example repacking retuning geographical separation to be effective spectrum sharing tools that under the right circumstances can allow for more efficient efficient spectrum use also when we talk about sharing we do not necessarily exclude any licensing models and we have a long history of using these sharing tools successfully with ntia the federal agencies and the federal communications commission working together to develop and implementing a variety of sharing approaches in fact some of the most successful spectrum repurposing efforts including aws one and aws three featured a combination of relocation and geographic sharing with coordination around temporary and permanent incumbent sites this pragmatic approach as you know was instrumental in opening up spectrum access for earlier generations of mobile services while avoiding the high cost and lengthy transition times that would have been needed fully to clear incumbent users from the spectrum and originally this is the approach we're going to use for the 3.5 gigahertz band because of the important navy radars that operate in this spectrum but requiring geographic separation along all the coasts of the united states where the navy radars operate would have prevented the spectrum from being used by the vast majority of the us population and that would have simply killed commercial interest in the band from equipment manufacturers or and service providers so we looked at smaller coordination zones right go back to what we normally do and see if we can tinker around the edges but that still left a lot of valuable spectrum on the table so we and our colleagues went back to the drawing board and eventually came up with cbrs as we now know it complete with both small exclusion zones and larger dynamic protection zones both of which are implemented through technological innovations like environmental sensing capabilities and spectrum access systems these technological innovations allowed the commission to adapt its regulatory approach to introduce tier licensing with incumbents with priority access licenses and with general authorized access cbrs was in effect an experiment one which we and i think others are continually evaluating and one which i think we will all be evaluating for some time but so far we believe the experiment is a success the evidence is that the cbrs model is permitting real innovation both in the types of services and applications being used in the band and in how they are deployed and by whom ntis institute for telecommunications sciences its released a report just this past may showing that cbrs is on its way to meeting many of the fcc's and ntis original objectives between april 2021 and january 2023 there was a 121 increase in cbrs deployments at the beginning of this year there were more than 128,000 active cbrs devices operating in the defined dynamic protection zones where sense and avoid technology operates priority access license grants grew by 17% each quarter and even so even with all of these priority access licenses four out of five cbrs devices were operating based on general authorized access in addition pal and gaa operations turned out to be compatible in 66 of the areas with priority access licenses there were gaa operations as well finally more than 70% of cbrs devices were deployed in rural census blocks suggesting some success in reaching underserved areas as well we think we are still early in the development of cbrs but we also think so far so good nevertheless we see cbrs as a work in process we hear from the cbs community pretty often about concerns which is something we encourage if you don't know there is a problem it makes it much less likely you're going to be able to help fix that problem and we try to help improve the ecosystem anywhere we can in partnership with our colleagues at the commission and our colleagues at the department of defense and let me just mention two small examples about a year ago the hawaii electric company asked the federal government to allow a portal based scheduling solution to protect federal operations near hawaii near hawaii until environmental sensing capability operators could could deploy ecs equipment so working with dod particularly the navy and the commission an arrangement has been made for cbs our operators to use a TARDIS scheduling portal while esc operators continue to work towards deployment in june of next year the navy will have continuous access to three 10 megahertz channels while leaving cbrs operators including all seven priority access licensees free to use seven 10 megahertz channels the other example involves how often cbrs devices are reauthorized to continue use to use spectrum FCC rules require these devices to be reauthorized every five minutes but ntia has agreed to extend the time period for reauthorization up to 24 hours in geographic geographic areas and portions of the band where current federal operations will permit such such an extension of the reauthorization period the point is the cbrs rules are not static they are at the risk of bad pun dynamic cbrs can and we believe will evolve we know that cbrs users have raised other suggested improvements and have other concerns and we will examine with our colleagues in government all of those concerns and all of those suggestions as i mentioned we want to continue to improve the framework for the cbrs band and we encourage stakeholders to continue to reach out to us and our colleagues so that we can deal with those issues now somewhat relatedly as many of you know ntia is in the final stages of developing a national spectrum strategy to serve as a policy blueprint for a spectrum management going forward understandably a lot of attention and speculation is focused on the particular bands we may identify to study for potential repurposing but we hope folks will focus on other parts of the strategy as well we hope you in particular will focus on other parts of the strategy as well well i can't go into detail quite yet we've been clear that new technology particularly technology that advances dynamic spectrum sharing is going to become more and more important over time to be a little more precise we think it is important to focus on the next evolution of dynamic spectrum sharing like the incumbent forming capability platform ntia has talked about for some time now among other things we see this technology as a way to pick up on and improve the cbrs approach it is a way to provide more granular real and near real-time data in a secure manner to allow dynamic spectrum sharing in the temporal dimension to put it more simply we want to pinpoint when primary users are not utilizing frequencies thus allowing more opportunistic access i can also tell you that the discussion of dynamic sharing techniques in the national spectrum strategy is going to be simply part of a broader context of working to better understand and develop the technical capacity for improved spectrum management whether it's for analysis and testing or for developing sharing scenarios or just basic r and d on spectrum engineering we are all in on using technology to better manage our spectrum resources and we will be over the next next decade so when it is released i encourage all of you to think not only about the short-term elements of the strategy but also about the longer-term prospects for improved collaboration between the private sector and the public sector and about technology development and i also would like you to think about how you all can participate in the implementation of the strategy's goals thank you all and i really do have pictures of Audrey if you'd like to see them after we're done i'm willing to to take questions i may or may not be willing to answer them but i would not say we're taking on a regulatory role how can if we move forward in this co-evolution how can we make it a little more transparent not necessarily as much as what we had to do with libo it's improved but but somewhere in between so you know you're gonna drag all of us into this aren't you oh i am everyone everyone's stuck to you thank you john uh but but how do we create a little more a little more visibility into it um so that so that the operators feel comfortable their concerns are in it rather than just being channeled through the sassus long question i apologize so look you know the rules only get changed when they're changed in a public process by the FCC right so i guess at some level i reject the notion that there is not sufficient transparency into the process uh for changing any rules related to cbrs number two when folks come to us and say the Department of Defense is doing something or there is some problem with how uh federal agencies are handling it our discussion with the federal agencies probably should not be public right we need them to be able to communicate with us in a way that we can take into account and work with our friends publicly at the FCC now whether there's some additional transparency we can add in the process i'm not sure transparency is a general matter is a great thing something when we did the national spectrum strategy everything is on the record why really careful about transparency if you think there's not if if the community thinks there's not enough transparency somehow in terms of dealing with cbrs issues something we certainly should consider i'm not sure what the answer would be but i can tell you that we are really careful about the transparency generally and certainly when it comes to dealing with rules and our colleagues at the commission and good for them they wouldn't let it be otherwise anyone else have a kid named Audrey afraid not Dean bubbly from disruptive analysis um appreciate all the what we've heard so far a question though is how we get more alignment probably not harmonization but alignment across different nations in terms of spectrum sharing because at the moment there's all this each band in each country has a separate rule set whether it's cbrs sas uk's got shared access licenses and local access licenses and hybrid sharing as a as an option germany japan south korea all have their own different approaches um is there only way to get alignment maybe not globally but perhaps you know maybe among nato countries or nato plus australia in japan to get at least some commonality so for enterprises that have multinational operations and also for the vendor side there's at least some level of commonality um uh beyond beyond one country so i actually think it's a great thing for regulators and for non-regulators like ntia uh to work with our colleagues overseas on just these things and i think we're to the point on cbrs where we are able to do that and i think we should do more of that frankly um and it's incumbent on on on stakeholders in the private sector to encourage the regulators with which they work to have such conversations the more a regulator in canada or europe or south america hears from the private sector said you know what those guys in the u.s are doing is pretty smart you should talk to them that creates a certain incentive and look i was chief of the international biorre at the fcc back in the late 90s right and the private sector and we were doing new things auctions were new back then right and the private sector did in fact go out and talk to regulators all over the world about what we were doing in the united states and they came to dc and we talked them through auctions and all the other kinds of things we were doing opening up our satellite markets which was new to international competition right those used to be closed markets back in the 90s and so the fcc as it traditionally does takes a lead role in these things and private sector encouraged regulators from around the world to come talk to us and they did ended had an impact i'm done cut it there okay thank you all to the panel really appreciate you coming all right so now before we you know break to collect some lunch out there we have our first panel which is how cbrs is fueling business innovation and competition and so we have uh jennifer mccarthy is is is moderating and uh and then jason wallin uh varda and shawdry and and john mezzalingua should all kind of come up here to these to these four seats i'm going to get off the stage but we we have some uh good news bad news on this panel one is go ahead and sit sit anywhere i guess is that uh the good news is that jennifer mccarthy the vice president for legal advocacy at federated wireless has agreed to to moderate this and federated runs you know a spectrum access system for cbrs and jennifer is very very acquainted with what the private sector is doing to implement here so that's good the bad news is that we've we cannot we've had an av glitch that we can't bring our remote panelists into the room so like minish jindal from charter who is going to you know talk about how they are you know how charter and other cable companies are using um cbrs to expand their mobile market uh offerings although uh you know won't be able to present although becky tangren from ncta is on the final panel and we'll be talking about that uh in general for the for that industry and alson oppoly from um chevron um is was supposed to be up here and and and was was showing they they were a huge buyer of of pals priority access licenses across this texas and the southwest and um said he was going to tell us how the oil and gas industry is very interested in expanding um their deployments of private networks other companies not just chevron um and then paul sevill from cinch uh from kindrel although we can play uh the video he was going to show for a couple minutes um about the deployment at that chemical that i mentioned in my opening but when we turn it over to uh to jennifer and um and we can do the you know we'll do the handoff here yeah all right go to you to about 1235 okay thank you hi everybody um i'm sorry our panel got uh got half but um i'm excited to have them all here first then and discusses more time with that so we don't have to rush through the way i think we were going to earlier um hopefully everyone can hear me i i know i've got a fairly loud voice anyway um so uh thank you again yes jennifer mccarthy with very wireless um we are one of the spectrum access system administrators for the cbrs band and a prospective automated frequency coordinator for the six gigahertz band so very excited about the prospect for sharing additional bands as jonathan mentioned earlier and how we can apply technology to make that more efficient and a better user experience for the commercial users while also ensuring that incumbents are protected uh today and as they continue to grow and evolve um in the future and um with me here today are some esteemed cbrs users who are uh deploying private wireless networks for a variety of uh of use cases and i'm gonna let each of them introduce themselves talk about what their companies are doing with cbrs and i'd love it if you guys would also talk about why you chose cbrs what made it unique or compelling for your use case and um whether or not um there are uh any improvements that you'd like to see in the band going forward and also think about whether or not you'd like more of this kind of spectrum um so uh if we don't mind maybe we'll just go down the line this way okay great i don't need them but we can use them okay oh okay great i wasn't aware of that so jason would you like to start great i i'd love to start i'm jason along with john dear i have responsibility and an enterprise level for the private cellular in our factories and in our logistics center um if we uh uh advance to the next slide here i'd like to give you a little bit of background of why uh we are such advocates of the cbrs space and and why we've really staked uh a lot of our future in the manufacturing space around that as well when we think about what are the challenges in a modern manufacturing environment there we start off with we've been manufacturing for a very long time since the 1800s obviously in that time we've developed some legacy and some tech debt inside therefore for what we have in our environments a lot of our factories are about three million square feet plus so they're very very big facilities those facilities can have over a thousand miles of ethernet cable inside them for the connectivity that they have inside there beyond that we can also have several hundred wi-fi access points to be able to cover those uh those same areas there and then can get into rf pollution issues that be just because of the nature of wi-fi as it exists today and then uh uh you know it's slightly better with wi-fi six but you have to clean up the entire environment to be 100 wi-fi six to be able to get some of the benefits in addition to that about 2019 we really started our industry 4.0 journey and while doing that journey there we realized that from an industrial iot standpoint we're going to have 20 times the connected devices that we've had in the past inside our factories when we look at you know our traditional platform of connectivity with the standard wired ethernet as well as wi-fi we knew we couldn't support the level of connectivity that we needed to in the density of the space that that we have for our factories with that so to get all of those sensors online we quickly understood that it was going to take a technology like private cellular and specifically with cbrs to be able to deliver that and also when we think about our factories um they're generally in rural locations they certainly aren't uh midtown Manhattan or places like that right so that the ability for public carriers to be able to service those requests wasn't available as well so we really had to take that initiative to uh to go with that so if we uh move on to the next slide we can kind of talk about how we've set our overall perspective on how we do manufacturing going forward first we're really leaning towards a private 5g first standpoint for every rebuild redesign or new facility that we bring online in north america and what what i mean by that is that just as wi-fi used to be the default coverage point inside there we will have private 5g available inside that space as well in addition to that we've taken a look at what our our existing use cases were where we weren't able to do uh the connectivity that we wanted layer that in and what can we enable with the uh cellular networks so the first one i'd like to relay to you is in our harvester works facility in east mulleen illinois where we manufacture the uh the combines that we sell um we have over 400 welders that were uh connected or weren't connected and we weren't able to get iot data from that quite simply the economic lift to cable all of those up and create dedicated ethernet in that space wasn't going to allow us to do that economically but when we had cv res installed in that factory we were able to make that connection for about 15 percent of what that ethernet cost would have been so it really unlocks new data streams for us so we can create digital streams to uh help our digital twin of our products as those are being assembled so we can better track our quality metrics that our customers demand from us we've modeled this over the past couple years since we've won the cbrs auction and we've kind of feel that going forward our aspirational goal is to have an 80 10 10 model for connectivity inside the factories and what i mean by that is 80 percent of the network would be connected via cellular connections 10 percent via traditional ethernet connections and another 10 percent via the uh hard hardwired ethernet and then the wi-fi as well a couple of reasons why that is the number of mobility use cases in our factory has grown significantly over the past few years and because of that the make before break technology and cellular really lends itself very well for autonomously guided vehicles and amrs throughout there as well as the support for logistics use cases and uh all of that really had to come back and work within that ecosystem to be able to support our zero trust environment that we've laid out in the wired ethernet and in the the wi-fi spaces there we've been able to integrate that by locking down some of the additional security that we have the i me i and sim card authentication laying that into our existing ecosystem as well to make sure that we've really got the the right mix of connectivity for the environment there with a very appropriate level of security as well so that leads me really to your question of what would what have we learned and what would we like to see there's really a couple things we see ourselves moving into in 2024 the first one of those is starting to use neutral host networks to be able to rebroadcast public networks inside there using our cbrs licenses and if you think about what a factory looks like for us it's steel walls that have a steel roof on top of it we build very effective faraday cages that we uh do our manufacturing processes inside so because of that from an employee uh work-life balance as well as for company-owned devices it can be hard for us to get uh good access inside the systems without buying a a DAZ system for each one of our factories but because of the technology advances in the cbrs system we are absolutely able to absolutely able to leverage that previous investment to get the value out that uh we would have with the DAZ as well as the private cellular networks and lastly we see that our iot networks which are a lot of tabular data today will be enhanced over time with cvml networks so we have computer vision and machine learning to make sure that our quality is where it needs to be from a factory that is another one of our key concerns going forward because as we move forward with this we believe that the space that we have allocated for us will work absolutely well for for today but going forward we know we are going to need more spectrum inside here we are a very strong proponent of the cbrs ecosystem in the shared space we want to be able to make sure we can extend that to new future use cases as we as we move forward with that that's great thank you so much um really appreciate that insight it sounds like you guys are doing amazing things with the spectrum and what what it was envisioned for and it's great to hear about your neutral host plans i think that is a a big growing area for cbrs users and definitely a different economic situation than a DAZ approach which you know is triplicating you know quadrupling the amount of equipment that would be necessary and and um i think a far better approach for for your um employees as well as as your factory overall um all right well we will continue on and then i'll come back with questions at the end if that's okay would you like to go next sure thing hope everybody can hear me okay uh good morning vardan schaudry here i'm a vice president on the investments team at jbg smith and first wanted to say thank you to michael and thank you to jennifer and thank you for everybody here uh hosting us today it's a pleasure to be here by way of background uh jbg smith do we have some slides of um not sure if we're going to see some slides today but if not happy to give you some some background well while the slides potentially come up or not either way uh jbg smith we're a publicly traded reet that's a real estate investment trust uh locally based here in the dc market our headquarters are in Bethesda and we're sort of a large developer and owner operator across the dc metro region increasingly our company is focused in on one particular neighborhood by the name of national landing national landing is a amalgamation of three legacy neighborhoods that for those of you who are familiar with the dmv we'll know is pentagon city crystal city and patomic yard stretching from arlington across four mile run into alexandria that uh this this new neighborhood under this new branding is anchored by amazon on the north side amazon's hq2 to be specific and virginia tex billion dollar stem campus on the southern end of the neighborhood um we uh stand as effectively the master developer for the neighborhood as well as the dominant landlord and as we look at uh uh what we're doing related to cbrs so maybe take a big step back and uh like in national landing to an urban campus we view it as a fixed perimeter uh urban environment that is akin to any other campus and with that scale and control that we have in this in this unique urban market we're able to make investments at neighborhood scale as opposed to building scale our management team years ago sort of asked ourselves what could we do to stimulate growth in our portfolio across national landing and for us as real estate investors we have a fundamental maxim that real estate houses the economy and if we want to stimulate uh growth in our business we want to be the home of the next generation of the economy and for us as the gentleman just mentioned for us that really zero we zeroed in on industry 4.0 and we looked at technology companies that were driving innovation and progress in technologies such as ar and vr uh internet of things anything that i guess uh summarily requires high bandwidth or and or low latency we researched what those companies require by talking to over 250 c-suite uh members of industry 4.0 companies and what we learned is unsurprisingly the number one requirement that they have is talent however what was a little bit surprising to us at the time was the number two requirement is connectivity and digital infrastructure that then led us into some more research to very quickly find that the way digital infrastructure is delivered in urban last mile settings today is incongruent with what the industry 4.0 innovators require rather than building piecemeal networks with all due respect to the wire line operators and mno's and mvno's but rather than building piecemeal networks one building at a time one block at a time with fiber plant or other other digital infrastructure plant we saw an opportunity given our control to step in on our balance sheet and invest in a converged digital infrastructure platform across the neighborhood for us that comprises of a handful of specific assets and i'll just run through them briefly and and talk a bit more about cbrs and our pals which are part of that asset stack we're building a dark fiber network all across the neighborhood we are pre-connecting all of our buildings to this dark fiber network and building it with traditional ring topology so that there is inbuilt redundancy in terms of pathways and you know we the term future proofing gets thrown around quite a bit but we are future proofing with extremely high counts of fiber 864 being the minimum count across the neighborhood all of that fiber terminates or rather originates at a strategically placed edge data center that is in national landing in a office building of ours that's being repurposed to be a data center that's equal parts enterprise co-location and also a carrier neutral hotel to allow for flourishing of an ecosystem of internet service providers and let's just call it network providers that can then use our fiber network to serve end customers across across the neighborhood as many of you know those two what we call wire line networks of the fiber and the data center unlock all sorts of innovation in the wireless realm we're leveraging these two assets in exactly that fashion to deploy namely outdoor 5G where we serve as the tower company for the neighborhood we have a contract with AT&T as sort of our first and anchor tenant of our tower business wherein we are deploying AT&T's wireless network both for GLT as well as 5G including millimeter wave in selected areas across the neighborhood using our fiber our real estate and our data center AT&T is the first but but hopefully not the last and as we look at how we're able to provide some speed and ubiquity to the market as it relates to the on on air of public commercial networks with AT&T we also saw a a need and a gap in the market for private network availability that led us to auction 105 and we ended up with quite a haul we spent 25 million dollars acquiring four pals in Arlington County and three pals in city of Alexandria which is a county unto itself so with 70 megahertz of private access spectrum I think there was a number of speculators and journalists who are wondering what is a what is JBG as a real estate company as a real estate investment trust buying CBRS which is not a readable asset but and also not in the hands of a traditional user nor in the hands of a traditional operator and in many ways their their questioning was was right on you know we don't view ourselves as as a strong necessarily a user in the same way John Deere might be within your own business operations although we are looking at opportunistically leveraging CBRS to solve operational burdens more importantly for us we viewed it as a unique opportunity in time to take control of mid-band spectrum as we all know scarce resource and also be able to fill out our stack from fiber under the ground to spectrum in the air we now serve as the one-stop shopper as we sometimes call it the easy button for innovators going back to industry 4.0 and our goal for innovators in our in our market who ultimately are core business customers our office tenants to quickly access choice and competition in the market that was otherwise defined by neither of those things we're really excited and happy to be partnering along the way with best-in-class enterprise service providers and operators Federated Wireless is a strong partner of ours and really our exclusive partner to deploy private networks as a service leveraging again our digital infrastructure stacked from the fiber the data center and and of course the PALS so we're you know again excited to be here humbled to be here we really view ourselves as an enabler and we've been excited to be along the journey on CBRS we're big proponents and and want to do as much as we can to help evangelize the use of CBRS in urban environments we are really excited to hear about the ongoing use and call it more industrial use cases whether it's in manufacturing or in the oil and gas industry and also in university campuses across the country and what we're really looking forward to doing together with Federated is bringing that into call it office buildings as well as the outdoor environment within an urban setting really leveraging a place like national landing as a living laboratory thank you that's great very exciting and very close by something that I would encourage folks to come and check out in person since it's just across the river and you've done demos I know in the past and I'm anticipating more coming up if that's right absolutely I'm glad you mentioned that Jennifer we are a stone's throw away just across the river and we'd be happy to host and if anybody happens to find themselves in national landing or or attends one of our sort of demo days or on other events that we happen to have quite frequently over at our experience center there you ought to come take a look and for those of you who are from around here Crystal City was not a place where you'd maybe find yourself spending a lot of time after 5 p.m that's changing tremendously it has already changed tremendously and the change will continue for a few years to come so please come across the river and pass a visit it better get better federated is moving our headquarters from balustin into your facility so we we better have something good to do absolutely after work excellent well now john may I turn to you and do you have are you mic'd up okay pretty simple on on my comments here private wireless is this mega trend that nobody really understands as a mega trend and I think what we have done in the industry over the last four years to really explain it I don't know that it's really served us up till this point but I think what we can do now is make sure that we focus really on education as to what it really is what are we using it for specifically what are we going to use it for and then what value is it going to bring and then what kind of technology solution is going to be required to bring it to life because there's not a one-size-fits-all solution to private wireless but I don't think we even get to that point because we're still trying to get to the basics of what are we doing with this technology here so the way we think about it it really comes in two different categories there's the what I'll call a purpose built solution so purpose built is just like it sounds there's a problem the new technology can address that problem it's either local or broader geography and you address the technology to fix that problem and you fund it by funding both the network application and the network which is actually one and the same thing so that's the key that means there's a higher ROI because you have to fund both but there's a lot of applications here within the purpose built so the one of the examples is a grocery store that wants to extend a wireless camera at the at the edge of its parking lot and just simply doesn't pay to trench cable so you will have the ability to just use a very simple point type system to to have that application you can use a another example is a hotel that is looking for in building connectivity because you know in building coverage is really the the achilles heel of the wireless industry and for all the extraordinary advances of this technology it's something that most calls are made in building and and yet we still have either we have the technology but the solutions are uneconomic and and therefore up until this point I would say we haven't been able to solve it effectively but private wireless can now solve that in a way that is very effective and that would be more an example of a broader case of a purpose built solution for in building connectivity that's more efficient than a DAS as you said and as a as a designer and manufacturer of the DAS product line we have an appreciation for all the complexity that that that that is entailed there and it's really not utilized effectively beyond the most dense environments so I think it's a very good solution for that so it's important I think there's going to be a lot of applications for that it's going to be quite meaningful but it's also appreciate to uh to it's important to appreciate what it it cannot do you cannot expect this purpose built solution to really grow with you as you have applications that you really can't conceive of at this moment so uh fundamentally uh you we don't know over the next 10 years what we are going to need here and so that's why when you build a purpose built solution you just extend the coverage to the area that you're that you're thinking about at that moment you don't go anywhere else because again you're going to have to fund it based on the ROI of that application here so that's uh a purpose built I think the moment anybody says killer app or use case that's code word for uh you're in a purpose built application because you have a specific need that you are building that network for so that's that's the purpose built way that we look at it the other way the other platform uh a way to look at it is really a platform approach uh it's more complex it's where we play because of our history in the DAS world so when we do things like sphere or or super bowl type venues those are extraordinarily demanding and complex environments and as a result you learn a lot of ways to leverage and manipulate the capabilities uh for for that world but a platform really recognizes that all the connectivity technologies really should be harmonized into one unified platform and by the way I'm not implying that uh that all any of the technologies go away because you're still going to have Wi-Fi it just means it's going to ride on one platform so think about the connectivity technology that we have today uh last night the hotel I checked into there was a different technology that had my key card open my door to my hotel room there's a different technology that ran the Wi-Fi uh different technology that ran the wired phones that ran the television all separate and distinct network infrastructures and if they had one there's a separate technology for the wireless connectivity for the cell phones which I don't think they actually had one so that's just for the guest experience now for the operations uh of the hotel you have the that their own Wi-Fi so typically they like to segment it off you have the operations uh that they would run like HVAC or building access or or security cameras or whatever the case so if you just think about that you have all these apps that require their own physical network and you almost when you pull back you have to think about how did we really get here it's like the the frog and the boiling water discussion and uh it's it's something that is uh simple we just not have not had the technology up until this point so fundamentally you have all these individual silos that are managed and maintained separately they all have different life cycles there's no redundancy to any of them and none of them talk to each other the platform approach collapses those silos into one network and they're all interconnected where they are managed and maintained in one by one person with one infrastructure so it gives you the opportunity to do the 5g applications and there's many exciting new applications that are just built on 5g that we're that we're seeing here but here's the difference that the existing applications get addressed we always talk about what's new what what's new requires an incremental network and that's important because there is new technologies that you can leverage with a new network we're just all conditioned to think that way the game-changing element the way we look at it is to address the current issues that we have today where every network application requires a separate physical and distinct network so in this case every new application now has a much lower ROI because you're also not funding the actual physical network you're funding just the application and i think that's really important because for this ecosystem to grow you're going to want to encourage experimentation and there's many good network applications and iot solutions that simply aren't going to pencil out at the level that the meaningful applications that our industrial customers are going to utilize but they're still going to be very valuable and they help bring in other people who otherwise wouldn't be a part of this ecosystem and in this world and it'll help move it from a niche environment where we have people who are super deep into that world into something that's a lot more broad and impactful here across the board and it'll actually make it something that becomes a part of our daily life instead of this other hidden kind of technology so if you're not limited by time if you can have something that works for 10 years and be up to date with all the evolution of the networks of 5G as it goes forward if you can do 4G and 5G or both at the same time if you can go public and private and licensed if you can not be handcuffed by the capabilities and the number of applications that you're looking at here so it's wi-fi you can run on it video cameras all these ideas though that we're going to be coming forward with that's something that is something we've never received we've never encountered in our mobile communication technology world it's been talked about for a long time we've never addressed it then you throw into the mix this notion of 5.5G and advanced 5G now those of us in the technology world you're used to it and you understand that there's 3GPP and it's just an advancing of the technology but in the enterprise world people are not going to want to have to make the significant investment they think that they've just they don't know that there's iterations of 5G they'll take a deep breath because they made this big investment they think they've crossed the finish line and then 5G is going to uh they're told then by by somebody within the organization that they actually have to upgrade now to 5.5G which is the next 3GPP iteration release 17, 18 whatever it is that is something that is just going to squelch the enthusiasm here because what it requires is a new decision point new investment at some year at some point down in the future and then it has to be executed upon so i think that's something that's uh really critical so within a platform you want to run connectivity everywhere not just with the applications because you don't know where it's going to be here so it's really a complete overhaul of the whole connectivity architecture and uh both wired and wireless that we have before us and ultimately it's just this this 5G ecosystem that that's going to serve as the foundation for everything that that is going to determine our economic power in the future you know the AI the cloud services quantum computing so um so again purpose built solves problem for a company and there's a very valid need and I think there's going to be a meaningful market for a lot of those solutions whereas a platform sets the stage by simply simplifying everything at once into one infrastructure not providing limitations so in answer to the question Jennifer as to where this relates to spectrum policy you know spectrum is of course the fuel for private wireless rocket and uh a little gets you a little way a lot of spectrum allows you go to the moon and so up until this point we really only have been talking in the use case world so by definition it's a little more narrow and uh I think when the industry looks at the platform model and thinks about the spectrum needs in that way I think it's going to be thinking about it more properly and there'll be ample fuel and potential for for the kind of private wireless capabilities that will really secure our prosperity as we go forward so thanks so thank you all very much for sharing before I turn over to the audience for questions um what I heard here is that you're each using a variety of technologies to meet different needs different aspects of of your um your business plan your use case and that could include a combination of the wide area public cellular network bringing that on onto your campus into your facility it could include accessing wi-fi you know through unlicensed bands for you know a variety of of connectivity needs and then there's this new thing the cbrs and 4g 5g opportunity somewhere in between uh you know the unlicensed unlicensed option and the fully licensed traditional option um talk to me about um what you see as the benefit of uh the cbrs model in particular whether it's the technology the power level the ecosystem and the options you know in terms of you know vendors um supplying um and or the latency you know what was it that was unique about that combination of spectrum equipment technology and uh technical rules the the power levels etc that um that you found that was important to to say yep that's that's the Goldilocks that that we want to invest in I'm happy to go first um and I'm likely the least technical certainly person on this panel perhaps the room but I would actually say and just building upon what you had said earlier I think for us we see a tremendous opportunity in using cbrs for neutral host um networks uh Moken Networks it's something that we're working on with your team Jennifer and uh just given that you can deploy a Moken architecture both on gaa but also for us on PALS offering just a higher level of security and and and resilience and usability without risk of being kind of booted off the network uh for us I think is a tremendous uh avenue for value creation because it all of a sudden reduces the amount of capital required to go and deliver the full network stack from the wires to the access points and really construction involved in anything related to um in building coverage particularly in the areas that are really hard or otherwise traditionally uncovered like garage systems in an urban environment or even building you know above ground facilities that aren't otherwise getting good coverage uh we have a number of facilities and buildings that have traditional DAS deployments but we're excited to hopefully be along this journey in the industry of maturation of the cbrs 3.5 band to really uh be a uh like a a an entree to carrier the usual suspects mno's and mvno's who are increasingly becoming mno's uh joining you know joining forces with owners of real estate like us to actually join a moken uh moken base network I think from our perspective a lot of the things that we see in the uh the ecosystem are very attracted to us first of all the the cellular protocols are much more robust than than current wi-fi four and five even wi-fi six is it currently moves here we think about those those shop four use cases where we have autonomously guided vehicles moving around there having to make a decision is that a human in front of me do I need to stop knowing that we've got that uh make before break technology on the handoff from one radio to the other where you don't necessarily have that in the wi-fi was very much more attracted to us I think also in there the ability to have that shared spectrum and and be the master of our own domain not having to re-license carrier spectrum was another key aspect to uh uh what really made this attractive to John Deere both buying into the PAL ecosystem uh to begin with and then also the gaa pieces of that that go with that I'm excited to hear that we've started to look at this holistically and understand how can we do something closer to that millimeter wave in that shared space there but then also with that 3.1 that becomes available you know looks very very attracted to us to be able to expand to meet our future needs in that space and then um finally you know it really comes down to how can we do this we can build our cookie cutter for our factories in the us and then be able to hopefully with some alignment through foreign regulators be able to get closer to an ecosystem where we don't have to manage each spectrum in each country separately and find end point devices that support those as well but that's what's really been attracted in this space I would just say that uh the uh having the good fortune of uh having private wireless is coming about when 5G is uh on uh it something that has now been launched and uh well in 2019 when it was launched but having 5G present to power 5 private wireless is pretty key the fact that that we have the ability to leverage as you said Jake that the cellular system that all the investment that's made that's been made over the years in cellular technology it's extraordinary it's all behind the scenes but it just works everywhere we go it has extraordinary power and sophistication and now that's available uh to the enterprise as opposed to just the carrier so i think that's uh enormously attractive and uh and i think the fact that uh software has evolved from a design manufacturing perspective the level where it is now offering new capabilities that allows much more flexibility to to the end user so i think uh that's what i'm excited about here with it great thank you um i'd like to open up to the the floor for questions Fresno is the fruit basket of the the world and and the us and so i'm very interested in what you guys are doing on field with john deere with lte but also with the vertical uh agronomy that's happening as well right so you know obviously we have smart connected vehicles and and while that isn't my area of focus per se we are very proud of the agronomic data that we can collect off of that ecosystem be able to manage those devices and now even have autonomous vehicles that we can uh put into the fields with a predefined map and be able to drive that going forward to your point about the vertically integrated uh vegetable uh growth operations there it's amazing what they can do from the the sensor standpoint being able to manage the entire process control the amount of chemicals that are used and the amount of water that are used on each one of the plants to optimize that but not overpopulate in that environment that's exciting too and we're starting to see that coming to our larger production equipment with with our sea and spray technology where we actually use those cvml technologies to verify is that a good plant or is that a bad plant only spray the bad plant and really from john deere's record here it really excites us that we can eliminate up to 60 of the chemical applications that we need to only focusing on just the the invasive plants that need to be removed hi there uh dean bubbly um i'm very conscious that we've got two pal license holders on the panel here and i'm curious to know whether what you're saying particularly around neutral host you see applying to gaa cbrs because obviously you know 99.9 percent of the buildings in the us aren't owned by pal holders and so i'm curious to see would you sub license in your areas or or you know is gaa going to be the equivalent for the people down the road how does that work sure i can tell you it's i think it's a great question and from our perspective uh what we're finding is that he who or she who controls the physical environment controls the gaa uh and and so we're seeing for some of our in-building applications the gaa would will work just fine as a pal holder you know our intent around acquiring the pals that we did were really you know twofold uh we have twin mandates one is to offer a unique amenity to our environment and our office tenants which we accomplished by having easy access to the spectrum to allow partners like federated to deploy a private network not for in-building coverage in a more traditional sort of DAS replacement sense but more for a use case that we're hoping emerges in in office spaces and in urban environments but we also plan to take advantage of geographically partitioning our holdings our national landing community and perhaps subleasing the remainder of our pals geographically outside of national landing in elsewhere in arlington elsewhere in alexandria i you know i think we're still waiting to see what sort of advantages pals have for the neutral host example and that implementation inside of a building envelope my understanding is that the gaa will would would work just fine and pals you know offer just more capacity from our perspective i i think what we would say is you know obviously we've invested in the pals in the five counties where we do the mass vast majority of our north american manufacturing but we have service parts operations as well as other manufacturing facilities that aren't carried by that the intent with us especially in the neutral host space in the united states is to work with the carriers to make sure that they're okay anchoring that coverage to band 48 specifically in that gaa space and be able to do that our conversations amongst the three you know i don't i don't think i'm gonna shock anybody here there's one that's very happy to work with us there's one that's okay working with us and then there is one that has some significant concern working with us and i don't need to fill in names you all know who everybody is in that ecosystem there well thank you i think we are coming up on time michael is that do yeah we should probably okay well thank you all it's been a great panel really appreciate all of your input and very excited to see i mean this is truly what i think was envisioned you know the the innovation band and what you all are doing with it is great so thank you for sharing and we look forward to continuing to work with you in the CVRS band and possibly additional bands with similar licensing structures so thank you so this is our public public sector networks that are leveraging gaa and again like the last panel i have the apology that we are going to be one one down one man down um with bill britain from cal poly tech state university who um was not able to be here and he was supposed to be on the screen but because of this technical glitch he won't be in it it's interesting because that that very last thing that that dean the last question that dean was raising about gaa and neutral host um i know at cal poly they've deployed a cbrs network across their entire campus and they're they're slicing it so network slicing 5g network slicing actually on cbrs so that they can do different applications and prioritize them differently and one of their findings and ironically they're working with team mobile to do as one slice of the of the cbrs network neutral host so it being a cal poly tech he said their buildings are all this heavy concrete with a lot of underground labs and so on so they have like no indoor connectivity for cellular networks so they can't get any of the mobile networks inside their buildings so they're putting it on their cbrs network as neutral host using gaa and team mobiles you know the first one is cooperating with that and it was funny too because team one reason team will want to be involved is they're trying to make slicing work on the on their mobile network which no mobile carrier is done yet and uh and and bill britain would have told you that it's much easier to slice cbrs as a as a private cellular network than it is um a public cellular network which is why you don't really see that happening um so welcome to uh i'm going to use there's a seat for me too public public sector networks and uh we have uh well you all have the longer buyers bios here but uh phil newfowl who is uh executive officer for information technology from the fresno unified school district um is going to start us start us all off uh and then garfield sway v and sell e tree from new york uh public library in the national spectrum consortium respectively so uh so phil let me give it to you for excellent we got i've got a deck here i it'll be coming on yeah i know so i'm phil newfowl i'm executive officer of information technology at fresno unified school district i also lead there a co personalized learning initiative and leading co-leading that since 2016 so i come with both the technology perspective but also an educational perspective um fresno unified is uh within the metropolitan area of the city of fresno that metropolitan area has about 750 thousand of the million population in fresno county are we've got 70 000 students in our district which cuts through most the geography of the city of fresno and most of our students are in living in high areas of poverty it's 89 free and reduced lunch as an example of that that poverty but our students are rich in potential when we give them the conditions for modern learning the shift to rich quality digital learning apps occurred a while ago the pandemic just helped us realize that they exist um but the pandemic did peel the blinders off our eyes relative to the digital divide how extensive it was particularly in urban areas of poverty you can just say next slide when you oh yeah yeah um so i was leading the remote learning um platforms uh during the pandemic and we kept having these neighborhood network problems what i called them except they were so pervasive across our city so one thing i want to do before we shift the next slide or we can always shift everybody is this key piece downdre weaver from digital promise as a really articulate uh paper on how the digital divide negatively impacts life trajectories which matter should matter to all of us you know so we discovered um in in conversations with our residents but also based on experience that um wireline broadband was either not available was poor performing in areas of poverty as and then the cellio signals which is surprising to me i should have recognized that to be the case but as i i drove around i found that the cell signals were weaker fewer cell towers and the coverage wasn't as good um we adopted wi-fi on our buses about seven years ago about a hundred buses and we i was having my team do a ride test you know user experience testing students were smiling as they were engaged in digital apps on the laptops and all sudden the lights went out happened our team was looking around at each other and what it was is that we didn't realize there weren't as many cell towers in some cases there weren't cell towers in the areas of poverty i'm currently working with atnt uh to get better internet connectivity around our campuses um cellular in this case and atnt did an assessment i asked them to do it of our of our high schools and middle schools i would have loved to do it of all the schools the dangerous you ask too much sometimes you don't get anything um and they found that 15 out of their 22 schools that they assessed were not delivering compliant um cellular services so we're getting uh microcell boosters but that just goes to show uh on the next slide you'll see the the big gap that exists in what we consider served and unserved the FCC and the cpc suggests that in the city of fresno we have about three to four percent of folks that are unserved the microsoft digital equity dashboard which uses a lot uh richer sampling with upload download speeds solid cross-fesno accounting that's more like 50 percent we've built an app called myqo i um given that we've got you know all the sudden 70 000 plus laptops so great opportunity for telemetry crowdsourced data gathering uh of speed tests so i'll give credit to my one engineer brine alvarado who built it but we've been able to get over 12 million speed test measurements and it suggests that 27 percent of our residents in the city of fresno are unserved so that gives you a sense of what we're trying to solve for um so let's um so that that that goes with the stories of you know students parking at mcdonalds to get wi-fi right so we have those stories but we've now got quantitative data to show how big of a gap this is we'll go to the next slide uh but before one thing i'm just going to mention there as well is that gives us data to help us understand the the the challenges around internet connectivity and where it exists and and hence how what interventions we need to do and investments we need to do where right so multiple layers to how we address this in terms of multi-dwelling complexes getting fiber there and such but one thing we did do based on the urate modernization act is get fiber at least fiber across our school district did that with rings and sub rings so it's highly resilient it's 20 to 100 times the speed of 2019 so greater capacity and it saved taxpayers a bunch which is cool and it makes sure we don't have the kind of disruptions that we had with lit fiber to students instruction it also brought fiber into the fiber desert 110 miles of fiber and the fiber deserts that were in the southern part of fresno that reflected the disinvestment that's happened over the last 20 years around broad bend now makes possible things like call centers and other kinds of jobs that show up there that never could before it also became the backhaul for lte next slide so how are we going to support and get connected students in these areas of poverty and have not nor do i see any of our incumbents we don't have a lot of choices mostly one incumbent in most of these areas building out improvements in their infrastructure in the next five to ten years so during the pandemic so what do we do and how can we do it quickly so we've we use some asset funds that do in six months what normally takes two to three years and we used to did 15 cell sites as using our buildings as towers okay so we could avoid the longer design build time it was pretty good we were getting 50 to 80 megabits per second download which when you compare it to the carriers in those areas was really good okay because the bars disappear quickly in these areas of poverty really quickly we're subsequently doing another 35 sites and we're using the google rf analysis decided to do that at 70 feet going much higher gives a little bit of advantage but in much higher increasing costs we're using must go 70 foot poles and we're going to retrofit some of the phase one sites as well so end up with those 50 cell sites and you can see based on the map there how we're getting better coverage overlap and also deeper coverage of the higher poles we're going to be working with neighborhoods and the resident leaders there to drive adoption and this will be a good infrastructure piece and given the advancements in rf we'll be able to use whatever's next whether it's ebs more cbrs and the nice thing is there's advances also in terms of the the laptops having built-in sim cards so that's great and to a chairwoman rosenworth will point about the the homework gap this helps students connect across their daily journeys from an equity standpoint it's not just enough to have really fast internet at our community anchor institutions nor at homes if we can get that into their play into those homes it's also got to be across a daily journey it's what my daughters grew up with they were able to finish high school math or college math in high school because they had access to this guy named sal con that i couldn't i couldn't replicate and the the resources even before ai showed up adaptive learning was rich and valuable for every student to to help with their success these sorts of things that are happening across the u.s at different anchor institutions are also enabling students to have that same opportunity for success and to be the kind of assets our country needs yeah thanks phil and and that's that last point on where it's a cost benefit i should not mention because phil was a great help to us a year ago when we put out the we did the cost we commissioned the uh rubble cats at nyu business school an economist did a um a cost comparison a microeconomist cost comparison study used phil's cbrs data used data from the schools in san jose that were using wi-fi instead of cbrs to do the same thing connect students record home compared that to buying mobile carrier hotspots under the emergency connectivity fund and you see that once you start going out two three four in five years you know the useful life that it's much much less expensive uh to deploy these private cellular networks then it is to purchase subscriptions and hotspots from mobile carriers should add to that the commercial carriers hotspots don't work in areas of poverty and the second is cost the cost benefit isn't there even if they did but the other kicker is we couldn't personally afford a pal the the gAA is huge in terms of the the civic benefit and the and the community benefit that it off yeah let's yeah we'll come back to that right after the presentation but uh garfield swayby from new york public library uh thank you it's about your program so i'm garfield swayby from the new york public library we're a 92 location uh system uh covering the Bronx Manhattan in staten island brooklyn queens are their own uh branches or their own systems uh we have fiber in all of our locations connecting everything folks come into the library for books obviously but to use the computers to get wi-fi uh around similar motivations as fills about uh two years ago but immediately after the lockdown we were hearing or doing a lockdown we were hearing stories about students coming to the libraries now if you can imagine that time when everyone wanted to remain indoors folks who are coming to the libraries were not a rural area so you couldn't drive there and stay in the parking lot but they were doing that nonetheless to get wi-fi bleed and the president of the library which you know an annual ritual would come to me and to say well what can we do to be able to move uh connectivity further out into uh the neighborhoods and instead of saying my normal answer which is it's cost prohibitive to try to do wi-fi using repeaters all the way in we started to do some research we came about uh uh cbrs read an article about a school district in uh Utah that had actually deployed cbrs did some more research to actually uh please to be sitting on the stage with Phil because he was one of the people that we researched uh Josh Breitbart you guys probably know him he had a uh a spreadsheet with people who were doing similar projects and we started reaching out to them to understand how they went about doing things so Colin Bryce of uh Tucson uh and a number of other people and uh in talking with Jason uh initially uh the webcam uh the web conference uh he had a lab setup where he had all different types of devices that he was using same thing with Colin uh Jason did that at his base uh at uh at our school district Colin in his homes and from our standpoint we're like well you know these are things that we could normally do ourselves because we're in the wi-fi space but we had never been in a scenario where we would be similar to a traditional cellular vendor but after seeing what they were doing we said this is something that you know we could we should actually try uh the the eureka moment for us was when uh Jason said as an afterthought that you know uh he had lit up the campuses the school campuses but he said you know if I had to do it over again we would have uh sent the kids home with devices and then broadcast the signal to their homes and that's what we were looking at doing uh and I'm starting with these examples because I want to stray away from my normal presentation which I would go through the slides and talk about what we're doing as a matter of fact last week I was at the on-go alliance uh user meeting and so I think they'll post the slides at some point in time so you could see what see what it's there ready okay so you'll be able to see like you know what our ins the installations look like the vendors that we used but I use an opportunity to talk directly to the vendors and my point was this school districts libraries municipalities I mean if you listen to Phil or listen to uh to Jason very smart people doing like really important things vendors normally you know my point was look at us as invoices where they just want to get some business but if you think about Phil's app we did a similar app uh so we have developers but we're not a developing shop so there's business to be made by engaging with us with our use cases and so I'm using this opportunity because we're talking with uh spectrum administrators we're talking to policy people that uh with the the two earlier uh comments or or or talks at to start uh our meeting today again looked or treated Michael had to ask the question about the roles of schools and uh and libraries and it's almost as an afterthought that the work that we're doing or certainly our use case is of importance but we are the ones uh the the read person before talked about the importance of using uh fiber uh with cbrs and broadcasting that to open spaces and in buildings that's exactly what we're doing at new york public library so we installed cbrs uh radios and antennas on six of our locations using our fiber as a backhaul we broadcast that out to a specific coverage area uh because of you know the limitations of cbrs in terms of power and and spread and and specifically within new york city which is not like utah or not like fresno right it's very defined and to to date i think physics is yet undefeated so you know the the typical challenges that you have that we're facing but we're able to over a period of a year prove that cbrs under the right conditions can be broadcast in an area like new york one of the things that uh that we faced however is we're focusing on the fixed wireless use case not necessarily in building and that's because the president of the library said we have fiber but most of the people that we have or you know the critical people as phil said they do not and so the first priority is how do we get broadband and how do we get signals out to them so most of what we're doing is around the fixed wireless use cases and some of our evaluation with the technology is that from a fixed wireless standpoint cbrs is still maturing uh from the standpoint of using gaa there's also some concerns you know as a as a library uh we're capitally you know confined and challenged so in terms of getting access to spectrum if it's possible that uh i'll tell you by a specific use case we had two years ago and we started the project around fleet week fleet week in new york is when you know uh military the navy comes in and so our thought was that uh we're going to witness drops in uh in our channels and you know have a reapportion for the navy and so we worked with our uh manufacturers as well as with the sass providers to make sure that you know to keep track on uh to make sure that our our our radios wouldn't go down some of the concerns we had there was you know in a lot of the technologies there wasn't anything like an ssnp trap to be able to tell when the radio goes down like so these are sorts of things that in normal you know in a traditional uh network and environment is just normal but it's not a part of that technology and so one of the things that we're attempting to do is to work with vendors to be able to say these are specific areas that the technology necessarily needs for it to be prime time and so so those are the things that we can provide uh you know with with our expertise but then also for uh folks who are looking at spectrum sharing you know we have expertise because we're so resource challenged we do a lot with a little and so uh we uh as institutions the New York Public Library is 125 years old which means that and one of Phil's point which I like so much he mentioned so some of the reasons why we want to look at cbrs is that we will outlive a funding cycle and so the work that we're doing like has to continue and so we are in the space you know we we should be given and I told him before I'm going to use the fact that I'm new to the space to be naive and to be pie in the sky like you know in terms of spectrum sharing our priorities should be as high as some of the incumbents primarily because of who we serve and primarily because the expertise that we've shown and we continue the show there's a group of us who we talk from time to time folks in Cleveland University of Washington and we share information it's informal but we're doing cutting-edge things and I think uh from uh an assignment perspective you know we should be prioritized as well and you know so I wanted deliberately to to make that point that we're here we we can do what some of our more well-heeled technologists can do but you know we need to be able to get in in the action and not be an afterthought uh from a policymaker standpoint or even from a vendor standpoint and if you want to hear information about the pilot we can do that just go to underlight thank you Garfield um and now uh Sal Dietry who's the chairman of the national spectrum consortium and uh he's got another interest really interesting public sector use case yeah I'd like to talk a bit about the Marine Corps logistics-based Albany site and for those of you don't know much about this it's it's the home of Marine Corps logistics command worldwide it's about a 3,300 acre site it's about 3,000 people who perform logistics there every day it's not a small site by any imagination it's located in Albany so they can ship down to the to the Gulf they can get to the Atlantic to get light armored vehicles military equipment in and out of there as as quickly as possible I'm going to show a video it's about a minute and a half where the Marines talk about what their mission is in Albany and there's this giant white building cube in there I want you to pay attention to that because that is the premise one of the key premises behind this evolutionary change to what they're trying to do they're not trying to make little incremental changes by people scanning things and running around they're really trying to change the entire process and really gain a decade advancement in man years of improvements in what they're doing so go ahead we're standing in one section of Marine Corps storage commands Albany Georgia warehouse operations and the center of our smart warehouse this warehouse along with 90 percent of our warehouse space was built in the 19th century turn the volume up our 5G smart warehouse which has been developed within this legacy facility provides an ideal test site to conduct experiments with the emerging network and automation technologies in a less than perfect work environment within the existing space we are transforming Marine Corps warehousing supply and distribution operations the 5G enabled smart warehouse project will exponentially transform logistical operations within the Marine Corps ensuring that we can consistently exceed service level expectations and mission readiness requirements of our war fibers we are building a template for the Marine Corps that is adaptable scalable and deployable we intend to transition this into advanced low-cost supply webs across the globe able to support combat operations in austere and contested environments the concepts in INL 2030 challenged the Marine Corps installations and logistics enterprise to reimagine how we sustain the force across the continuum of conflict and in crisis response we must transform our approach to logistics and transition the enterprise to enable expeditionary sustainment force one that is capable of supporting stand-in forces and contested austere expeditionary and the total environments in support of the joint force extra because i think osprey and humvees it's just cool to be around the Marines their motto is you know we fight tonight and that really resonated with me when i got involved in this project because it kind of defines this whole logistics evolution whatever they have whatever shape it's in it's it's going to go tonight if need be it might go to the middle east tonight we don't know where they're going to go but they're the first force in so you took a process and this this used all gaa it was one of the first sites in the united states where the federal government actually used spectrum that was uh participant in an auction so we worked with nta and others to really become the first people to make this available for what they call us and p the united states and protectorates places like wam so what they wanted to do was take this very manual process you know they receive these goods they're typically i used to say it was like watching people paint the golden gate bridge it was just 365 days of inventory and when it was done they just started the whole process over it was sort of a you know constant constant counting of inventory that couldn't be audited and was never really accurate so they came in and deployed this antibiotic system which was that huge white sort of warehouse within a warehouse in a series of these smart conveyor belts and if you see the inside of that so that antibiotics these little adobots these little ants move around they pick up inventory and they move inside this very very dense scaffolding like environment world in which they know exactly what put all the inventory and where it belongs and who it belongs to it's all coordinated so the whole the whole goal of this was to take that manual process and across the street on this 33 300 acre site is this enormous maintenance depot where they bring in these badly damaged light armored vehicles there's acres of them sitting out there and they strip them down to nothing and then they rebuild the entire thing using a highly skilled process the goal of the entire thing of this is to bring all that in have it sent to the to the depot autonomously on the day and the time it needs to that tech as he's moving through this 12 stage rebuild process is has everything he needs right on top right when it's needed and that process alone saves man years and what they're trying to do in tagging and collecting all this information the entire point of this and why he talked about they want to roll this out around the world is they're trying to understand the health of a capability set it's not a bolt it's not a wheel it's not a Humvee it's it's an ensemble that will come together some of it on a ship some of it in a warehouse some of it deployed somewhere that ensemble is going to come together and project power on some some force and the status of that entire operation has to be known at any one time so what we did is we deployed a cbrs network federated of course led this effort and and you know jma has been involved in this since day one and and in a past life when i was at federated i i did the whole architecture and the proposal for this and the jma guys were right there with me the the whole way um you look at something like that giant antibiotics cage inside that building with cbrs i have about a minus 77 received signal strength um the carrier signals in there like minus 110 minus 120 minus i think minus 134 i think was my carrier because my cell phone is just flat line in that place i mean i have to step outside to get one bar of lte from a carrier inside that antibiotics cage where all this digital transformation all this is happening we get about minus 80 received signal strength so we're getting like four bars inside that the reason that's so important is that that's the entire evolution if that antibiotic system breaks down i can't even think of how human would go in there and start coordinating that so the entire premise is based on having the network that is built around that evolution so previously those little adobots would have to do a job come back to the center of the container go all the way up to the top try and find a wi-fi signal wait go back to hound and move around and that creates huge maintenance pressures on something that meticulous and integrated so now they can go about their business they take things right off the conveyor belt that are scanned they go up into the antibiotics cage distribute them pull them down put them in bins you saw that one huge robot it's stacking everything perfectly and that's shipped across to the on a tug where it is then received and then they're able to perform their mission for the day there's other tenants of that base there's the defense logistics agency by by dollars the the 40 billion dollar a year enterprise by dollars the third largest logistics enterprise on earth pure logistics there they have what i call a retail site there so they are trying to automate and connect into this system and it's going to be one of the first cases of of the start of network slicing because for security purposes we can't have these these retail tenants on the same network where marine court data is passing through the extension of this program is to start using this site as sort of a hub where we're taking the packet core and we're now extending the user plane up to places like camp lejeune and other sites where we're now starting to connect in sort of the entire system that the colonel talked about so that we know the status of this equipment and this sort of capability set anywhere in the world at any given time yeah cool yeah and it was very cool and it's really interesting that you know you're making the same point about the marines who are using gaa right that's right there's no problems involved what you know and and again i'm sorry i really wish you could have heard alson oppily from chevron was on his slides he had exactly the same same point um about you know for oil and gas he said they consider a critical infrastructure so he said it's just out of the question for us to use the commercial um mobile networks he said we said we need to control these networks because otherwise there's not the security or the reliability um or to make the adjustments we need um you know they you know they don't want to be on there with the with the public they want to control it so it's but they have pals you know they bought pals for that purpose so this prior panel interesting contrast because those those big companies there you know had bought pals and they made you leveraging the extra capacity in gaa you all are relying on gaa um i know garfield you know you mentioned i imagine sit sit and smack in the middle in the york city that that might be a little noisy but i i guess is my one question is um is is gaa generally working out and but then also when you look ahead to like all the deployments that you could be doing or want to do do you need more spectrum access so first of all and we were fairly confident given what we saw with the carrier signals that we wouldn't see gaa use in areas of poverty doesn't have industrial use or residential use so we were fairly confident there we do want to also be able to use educational broadband spectrum but a carrier leased it um and we won't see that back in 2026 but yes we want more spectrum because we are going to be limited to the number of students we can serve even with 50 towers and it won't be enough of the population relative to the need over the next five to ten years so we could definitely use more spectrum um and to the point about platform versus purpose built we've started with this particular purpose but we know we've got iot on our campuses out in green spaces that wi-fi isn't going to cover so there's other uses that will come about through this so definitely would love more spectrum when i looked at what it would take to purchase power in our market that was out of the question so gaa is a great solution more spectrum within it would be fantastic and it's working well yeah because so therefore you're also looking in phase two right of right well we're looking at phase two phase two for us will be to broadcast directly to affordable housing buildings and light up the entire building and as well as having folks come to the library to check out a device so yes we need more spectrum as a matter of fact one of the the companies that has a license for one of our counties offered to allow us to use it uh no cost for uh for three months and then following that uh you know when we look at what the uh the cost would be it was certainly prohibitive uh what are the terms that i use when i first came in the space is that cbrs now is fallow but you know with uh with adoption we know that it's going to be uh but become uh you know problematic and and so for us more spectrum is important and i think if you look at the warehouse or you know those are huge concrete thick wall warehouses they're perfectly made for this and again like i said you're getting minus 130 carrier signal in there you you're just never going to be able to get the operation done in the way that business is done today you can't even maintain a cell call driving back to where these locations are on that base so if you think about extending that to exercise sites other other areas where they need spectrum right there in a bubble or an area cbrs ga is sort of perfectly made for that yeah all right if i don't know if there's a burning question otherwise we'll move to our final panel sir yes right here tell us who you are means that your city is going to be are going to be behind except that you design your network for five times more or even 10 times better traffic performance optimization anything you want to call it so where are you going to smart start the smart phase of your private network what's the smart application as of now you're using except covering the areas which were blind spot before so literally you then had coverage before now you have coverage so what are you going to be discovered so so i'll start i think probably the assumption is for why we started our project that assumption is probably a little off base i think the folks who we are looking to target not only do they not have coverage they don't have sometimes devices with which to get on the internet so uh what we're doing so the basis of your your question is correct which is we always have a high we should always have an eye on the future uh and uh in terms of technology is one of my engineers just told me today that you know garfield when you think about when you hear about 5g you know is it 5g uh 5g uh as it uses the cloud or 5g that's lte because we have to also like piece through what we're hearing from the vendors like so there's 5g that's just a patch to uh what exists now and then actual 5g that utilizes cloud computing and those sorts of things which i think is is your question and so for us we have we move according to uh the folks who we provide services for uh and we you know we we keep our eye on the future but we have to make sure that uh i was talking to an individual last week some of the conversations that on go you know it's about very deep uh technological questions that are important and you know i think the the chairman of the on go here was asked a similar question and he said well you know we're just talking about 5g because it's part of the specifications but when you think about who you have to serve right you have to make sure that you purpose built your solutions for that and for us that that use case is very clear very specific and so we'll do both but then also let me say that being in this space allows us for the first time organizations like myself to adopt a technology like cbrs fairly early in the maturation curve than normal normally we buy technology after everybody else is using it all the well-heeled folks and the use cases are for them not necessarily for us and when we apply it we need to come up with workarounds workarounds workarounds to make it fit and and what we're attempting to do is to work with vendors to address our particular use case our processes to serve the specific people who have identified and so in that case cbrs is important that it allows us to be in that game early from the beginning to be able to influence things and so I think from our standpoint that's how we keep our eye in the future while dealing with the folks who we we serve the only one i'm aware of kind of you know kind of smarts you know a smart city ambition or deployment using cbrs the one i'm aware of is las vegas is starting to do that and you know we thought about inviting them actually it's it's very impressive you know they started out wanting to connect students just like phil's doing and they they've been adding applications i don't know if it's you know but they're doing it incrementally um you know for different public and our our next step is actually to share with others so states in the community colleges to community college students why can't they share our network right and that does require our oems to think about platforms that allow for multiple communities to say hey these are this similar to active director some sort of federated approach it says this is my stuff this is your stuff they can both share the same network and because initially i'd ask the city can we use your light poles to do mesh wi-fi and i had gotten no not yet you're not fast enough you're not 100 but um we're the city's now open to sharing and to michael's point as we get more smart cars in areas of poverty they need to be able to still function so my tesla gets unhappy when i did the drive tests because they didn't have 5g there right and didn't have enough cell signals so at some point when as we start the next step probably needs to be more about collaboration within these environments and these platforms and as more sharing occurs we'll start seeing uh bringing that kind of technology into these areas that that now have coverage but now we need more intelligence okay yeah yeah thank you very much so it's we're going to shift quickly to the next panel but please give these these folks around applause if i could get the next group here it's fine we can we can get handhelds i think okay so we've in some ways we've saved the the best to last because these are the greatest minds of the the spectrum sharing revolution up here to give us closing thoughts on on where we are uh headed from here and i'm sorry what you know we're running a little a little over and behind um due to our technical glitches earlier but um but we will uh proceed on with this and get you all out of here just to just a few minutes late so what we'll do is um is i'm going to just ask each of uh each of our panelists here um you know starting with John Leibovitz a question i have and they'll just take like two minutes three minutes to uh to give you the high level answer and then whatever time we have remaining you all might have questions as well um so um so John you were you were there at the creation um leading the FCC's original effort to shape the world's first three-tier sharing framework cbrs um you know i thought it'd be helpful for you to just talk a bit about what were what was the commission's goal at the time and is the band working out as planned or you know so for context i started working on cbrs in i think it was 2010 it's been a long journey with a lot of baton passes along the way um i think the commission had several goals in doing cbrs one of which the most basic which was to put some spectrum to work that was otherwise challenging in a lot of ways with exclusion zones and and other aspects that made it uh essentially mostly unusable for commercial use but my personal goal at the time was um to explore this concept of a super flexible use band so um the you the term flexible use gets thrown around a lot in spectrum policy it's used to refer to the bands that are licensed uh generally exclusive use bands that are licensed for commercial use but in reality those bands are not flexible in certain ways they lend themselves toward wide area macro cell networks and that's great because those are important we did close to 50 billion dollars of auctions of those bands when i was at the FCC so not to minimize those but what i was interested in was is there a way to expand the tent to include all kinds of different uses that otherwise would be incompatible in the same band to have maximum reuse of the spectrum for maximum efficiency maximum productivity maximum innovation and in that regard i think cbrs has been a success we've got navel do d uses of the band we've got fixed satellite services still in the band we've got um uh carrier networks Verizon's got tens of thousands of towers with cbrs lit up uh as core part of their their network we've got new networks with uh the cable companies turning on their cbrs networks we've got wisps we've got all the private use cases we've heard about today industrial uses nonprofit uses they're all in the same band and i think this is a minor miracle and something that we should be celebrating and looking to expand as a matter of policy and and the reason for that is if you look around the world in other countries they're starting to do dedicated bands for for uh local area private cellular networks that's great but one consequence of that is that it now if you pursue that policy you think it's important to your economy to have 100 200 megahertz for industrial applications so you can have the factory of the future and the most productive workforce what that means is you're taking one to 200 megahertz out of circulation for the other uses which by the way includes carrier type uses with cbrs we found a way to have all of those uses coexist in the same spectrum and i think that is an incredibly valuable set of learnings and hopefully one that will will be applied going forward that leads well into asking jennifer um so this miracle that john's describing you know because the navy was there they weren't leaving um we and others incumbents worked around them and got all this innovation um you know federated wireless has you know spectrum runs a spectrum access system can that sass can the sass do the same perform the same miracle lower down in the three gigahertz band is is that feasible which is it's also it's it's military radar but right again but just even more so multiple services but is it workable absolutely um i think the cbrs framework the sharing framework the mechanisms the processes that we use to enable sharing in cbrs are absolutely portable and applicable to three one to three four five and and to other bands for that matter um and as a matter of fact i think were we to adapt the cbrs model directly to three one to three four five in the incumbent um use cases there um that would be the fastest way of getting access to those additional frequencies for commercial use um we've got a lot of the same kinds of incumbent systems uh in that part of the band um shipborne radars land-based radars um the new challenge will be you know airborne we've got a little bit of airborne in cbrs um but it's you know significantly greater in three one to three four five but i do believe that the same concepts this dynamic protection area um possibly a sensor at the airfield could be you know a way of notifying uh the spectrum access system or whatever we're going to call uh the dynamic spectrum management system four three one to three four five uh that notification could occur through through a sensor at the airfield or through you know a scheduling portal like TARDIS um but the concepts remain the same and we've proven that they work the uh the navy has not been interfered with in the cbrs band um which shows that um what what was designed and what's been implemented um works well and um it it's immediately adaptable to uh to three one three four five um and frankly to other bands um and to john uh jonathan's point um you know the uh the countries around the world that are looking to um do something similar in terms of the commercial access for private wireless networks are saying how can we automate this how can we automate access even if we don't have the incumbent uh situation that you have in the united states is there a way to uh to facilitate access and i think the um you know that part that aspect of the spectrum access system and the sharing framework that we've set up will you know also be adaptable um internationally as well which i know is one of the comments that john dier raised earlier so prestan you uh you must be the only certainly the only person i know who's actually written a book on three-tier spectrum sharing uh also Cambridge university fire it's not it's not an inexpensive i do use it for bedtime reading and i've gotten six pages in um it's so uh so um and you were of course there from the beginning with the president's council advisors uh science technology recommending doing this so um yeah i gets credit to leave the which was a quiet little advisor at six o'clock at night the FCC we as and yeah took it all back and did it so um so what's your take on on lessons learned from cbrs that can improve you know it's it's utility and inform how we do this in the future so so i did think we learned a lot goodness is we are we are still learning andy kleg and wind forum did a document about the technical lessons learned and if you want to go look and and dig into the dbs and all those issues wind forums got a document on that i think the more fundamental thing is a shared spectrum is different than other spectrum pretty much the other spectrum people write the rules they go out there a bunch of spectrum people write a bunch of rules operators go grab the rules and go implement i guess what happened in cbrs we wrote the rules i don't know four years ago uh we launched a month before covet talk about bad luck but but things really didn't change for the next three years and and over those three years we've learned a lot that we made some good deals with the navy and we've learned we made some bad deals and there were things in the rules that weren't so good um progress was slow a lot of operators were doing pilots and you know we're not sure about this and that and so in the last six months we really thought that the real issue here is we really have to institutionalize the fact that sharing is much more interactive and traditional just give someone spectrum and they go off and do things um we have to take what we've learned go back to the incumbents and say can you can you really can you live without this could we do this instead and it's a continual trade back and forth protect incumbents but find different ways to protect them in order to increase the value when scott got up and talked you heard him talk a lot about how flexible ntia was on this if you go back and you look at talks even six or 12 months ago they all talk about what a great job they did setting it up and cbrs was launched so over the last couple months um the last couple six months let's say i think we in industry have put a lot of person in the government to really accelerate how we institutionalize those if you go to on-go alliance on our last meeting you'll see a whole pile of things that are happening we spent an hour and a half talking about all the new changes that are in the pipeline to make cbrs better scott mentioned two of them that have already happened but there's anywhere depending on how you count them eight to eleven more that are in the pipeline to make cbrs better that we've really accelerated had i think the government not stepped in and worked with us we would see bears as a success but this is really what it takes to put it over the top is to get away from the idea of one and done and move to this is something that's interactive that that needs to be constantly reevaluated look at how use cases are adapting and what does that teach us uh doesn't mean we violate the idea of protecting incumbents but there's a lot of different ways to do it spectrum engineers aren't the right guys to do that ultimately it's the operators who bring these different use cases and so that's that's really the shift is you have to institutionalize the shift from a bunch of spectrum geeks to people actually building systems and taking that feedback and putting it into spectrum sharing i don't think we understood that at the beginning uh that this was a not a one and done but a continual process so that's that's my number one lesson learned okay yeah now that and we have to have to account for that turned uh finally to to to becky who i must uh apologies to her we're we're about to run a little over because i'd promised uh she has she's important child center halloween commitments uh she turns into a pump so just a warning that she'll be bugging out uh shortly but i want to make sure to get to her um cable companies are you know of course very different from all these industrial iot things we were hearing about today or even from school's libraries um we unfortunately didn't get to hear from minish jindal from charter earlier so we're going to leave it to you to tell us you know why are cable isps you know you all have them you know mobile broadband product now why are you willing to use this lower power shared spectrum rather than buy exclusive licenses for your for your you know the mobile networks which are now the fastest growing mobile networks in the country sure yeah and apologies in advance if i have to jet out early and while i may not have written a book on spectrum sharing i i did actually help write the cbrs rules and i had the pleasure of working with everyone here on this stage and in one way or another when i was at the FCC but as michael mentioned i i now represent the cable industry at ncta and cable uses spectrum for a variety of reasons but because we're here to talk about cbrs i'll talk about how we use cbrs so first of all cable uses both pal and gaa cable was our three largest members of ncta we're also three of the top five winning bidders of the auction and like i mentioned we also use gaa and it's it's not about being willing to use low power you know we saw this as an opportunity to enter a competitive mobile broadband market you know it's very exciting for me as someone who helped write the rules at the FCC that this is exactly what we wanted to see happen we wanted to see competition in new entrance and that is exactly what happened in cbrs is evidenced by everything we we've heard today so you know now cable is the fourth largest nationwide mobile provider in the country and we're adding subscribers like crazy we now have 12 million subscribers i think total and that's helping to drive down prices for your cell phone service essentially it's a very competitive price offering also the way cbrs was designed happened to align nicely with the way cable architecture is designed because it is lower power we can use much lighter base stations and we can put those on strand mounts which are already part of the cable architecture and that can be done with a lot of without typical things that might slow down deployments like zoning and tariffs and things like that because we're putting it on our existing network so it's not that we got stuck using low power it was a great opportunity and i think consumers are seeing that thanks well while we still have you in case you want to answer this or anyone else can also you know your competitors in mobile particularly there you know your kind of the other trade association cta has you know just very recently released a report which they said is where they said that they're drive by they did drive by testing of signals of you know mobile signal strength and or mobile signal coverage and they said we're not hearing a lot of cbrs out here so this band is actually not being used and is a failure so and i know part of that obviously is you know his cable is just getting revved up on this but but in general what's uh is that a is is that a fair way to assess cbrs at this point yeah thanks i'm glad that you asked that question and cta has done two tests now in select markets not at all nationwide the first test was done very early on just right after the FCC had finalized licenses so i don't care what band you're in you don't go just for getting a license usually and turning on a network especially not in a new network from a technical perspective drive tests were aimed to determine do we have wide area geographic coverage by high power cellular deployments and you know FCC has used it to determine our most road miles covered which by the way they are and it's not really a fair way from a technical perspective to measure cbrs on top of that cbrs is a temporal band so folks use cbrs at let's say a sporting event while if you're not driving by an exact moment you might not catch that and but that's the beauty of cbrs and as we heard today a lot of cbrs is being used indoors in shielded environments where you wouldn't pick up that signal and i think most importantly a drive test does not pick up the public utility of a band so the FCC made this decision which what it thought was in the public interest to drive competition in new use cases and and that can't be measured through a drive test so yeah i can't resist this one so just a shame they weren't at at wind forum last month when we had a session about doing spectral measurements followed the cbrs event and one of the things that said is you can't drive test things that have directionality a large part of the deployed cbrs base is what is wisps they're highly directional you will not see them if you drive by unless you happen to be in their main lobe so they that miss two thirds three quarters of the deployed radios they weren't even here and it's a shame because i don't think they even realize that they had the incredible insight that one of their members said gee if we use higher power we go further okay physics works that's good and and the whole idea that you want to measure the number of base stations although we actually have more base stations in af towers what counts is is bandwidth and the whole cbrs strength is that you can deploy 100 radios where they can deploy one that's 100 radios providing band with where where the cellular architecture goes for one we want to be able to create very intense networks you don't get to measure that by drive testing i think at one talk and he described them as widely disabused it should be because really it's not a meaningful measure of how the band is being used when you built a band that's short-range if you took that argument you could probably argue wi-fi wasn't very heavily used because if you drive down i-95 you don't see a lot of wi-fi so if the argument is that cbrs has the same utility as wi-fi i think i'll buy that i'll i'll walk out of here with that broadcast tv is very intensively used according to a draughton they were measuring their their own use case and then saying we don't you don't measure up because you're not doing what we do well that's the point doing everything else so uh yeah we ask one more thing and it will go to the audience and then we'll quit but um john you wrote an entire paper which was excellent by the way with with milkman on the question i asked uh Preston um you know lessons learned from from cbrs so far and and what we well what we how could we can improve it and also do some things different going forward um i don't know if you could want to talk more about that and then maybe jennifer maybe back here jennifer have thoughts too uh sure so that paper came out i want to say a year ago um it's called taking stock of spectrum sharing downloaded it on an ssr n near you for free um and i wrote it with Ruth milkman who was uh former chief of the wireless bureau and chief of staff at the FCC um i there there's a lot of tactical stuff that i think came up today to Preston you know is much closer to the actual operationalization of cbrs and said a lot of the sort of very in the weeds things i think that are add up to be very big change when you when you implement all of them um i will focus on macro uh analysis here and say that i think a two probably two things one is or maybe three things one is i think this notion that cbrs is not never was intended to be sort of one and done it was never it was always intended to be a collaborative ongoing process and you know i sometimes find it amusing people invent a new acronym for a new database system because in my opinion cbrs sass whatever they're they're generic placeholders with modular component parts that can be swapped in and swapped out so if you think the esc is not great and you want to have an incumbent forming capability cbrs can accommodate that you can add a new rule for that um in all kinds of different upgrades over time and that should be happening and that was part of the point of having a multi stakeholder process for governance as opposed to a purely regulatory process so that's one the second is this notion of sharing through the built environment in the physical world you know one of my favorite little factoids of spectrum policy is that in fact pretty much all spectrum below you know around the one gigahertz range on down all of it is shared and how is it shared well when it runs through a coaxial cable it's got you know shielding around it it's like a different spectrum universe we consider it to be and a totally different get set of users get to use it naming the cable companies for a different set of purposes than the cellular companies who are also using it in the broadcasters and everybody else and do d is also using it in the outside world and all which is to say that there are lots of similar types of effects that happen in the natural in the in the physical world we live in the biggest one being indoor access right so we've heard a lot about buildings that are like faraday cages we should be leveraging that to the fullest extent in thinking about spectrum policy and how to reuse spectrum as intensively as possible and get the most diversity and innovation in uses the third thing i will say is looking forward i think that um you know cbrs was in some ways can see we always thought that it would be compatible with the 4g ecosystem which was the dominant cellular ecosystem of the time and thankfully has expanded into 5g but you know that sharing capability is if you will it's sort of a bolt-on onto the ecosystem right there's you know a notion of um proxy controllers and certain devices that sort of attach to the cellular network and allow that sharing to happen in called medium time right um coordination events happen things change but they don't change millisecond by millisecond looking forward i think as 6g research is underway and the standards are starting to be developed i hope that both the industry policy makers governments will focus on building uh those types of sharing capabilities into the standards directly um in part because as you move up the frequency chart this is a point michael makes often as you make as you if you move up this frequency chart um spatial reuse becomes easier and and and we ought to find ways to more dynamically more granularly share the spectrum at the uh the ground floor in this case being sort of the the file layer and on up um if possible uh using uh new technologies and if that's built into the standards that will benefit everybody because it'll be more spectrum abundance for for everybody that could be of anything on this yeah sure i'd love to add on to what john said i agree with everything he said and then i will have to jet out of here to turn into a pumpkin but um i think taking it up a level from cbrs i think want to make the point that every spectrum band is evolving and improving we have this you know engineer in the back who said she started on 2g and she now works on 5g and for some reason cbrs is sort of like picked on like oh it needs to improve and and if we do make improvements that it's somehow a failure of of cbrs well now all technologies have been improving um the fcc's constantly reevaluating rules and and looking at ways to to make it better whether it's from cellular technologies to wireless emergency alerts i mean we're we're always evolving in the technology world and you know i think i want to say the biggest success we as a cable industry see from cbrs is that we have demonstrated that federal and non-federal users can coexist in a band without interference now hopefully we can maximize commercial use going forward and and perhaps we were overprotective at the start but that that is a great lesson to be learned because we all know that use case is just going to get harder and harder and we need as america we need to invest in the future of spectrum sharing so it's not too late yeah and part of it was at the time you know 10 years ago right it was such a breakthrough that the military of all of all users the military was willing to share their spectrum so of course we were all like okay what what do you need us to do sir when i think somebody used the person used phrase mutual obligation is going to have to come into play more and more for sharing federal spectrum jennifer thank you thanks becky have fun thanks very much um you know sal di tree spoke about the marine core logistics base in albany georgia and for me that is the perfect example of you know the one plus one equals three where we can enable the navy to continue to achieve its primary purpose in the cbrs band with the you know with the radar operations we can let commercial systems into the band and you know grow an entire new a new industry and then the military gets to take advantage of all of that commercial technology development and improve the way they themselves are operating you know i i think we need to to recognize that as one of the main successes of of cbrs is that full full circle and the the product being greater than the component parts you know initially and and one that we should look at you know for future shared bands as well in addition to you know as john said that we've got opportunities to make even more efficient use of of the cbrs band taking advantage of machine learning and as well as input from the 5g radios themselves we could be making smarter decisions about how much more intensively the the band could be put to use whether it's for indoor use cases or directionalizing outdoor outdoor deployments you know i think we've we can continue to improve on the commercial side in addition to working with our friends in the government to to improve that aspect of of the shared the shared band you know because it's not we're not just sharing commercial to to government we're also sharing amongst the commercial users and there's an opportunity for improvements on both both sides you know i think now that we've now that we've gotten into the we do spectrum sharing i think when we did pcast and cbrs we just wanted sharing that was a goal in trying to to sort of restart the regulatory thinking i tried to come up with something that would work for liberal arts majors and so i sort of came up with well you know you can say you're sharing with me if you invite me to a meal and after you're finished eating i can have whatever is left on your plate well that's sharing in a way it might not even be worth my opportunity cost so if i'm just desperate if i'm just saying i want to share i accept that but if i'm trying to balance that opportunity versus over other opportunities maybe i should go panhandle i might get a better deal um and so so we we need to keep pressure there's always reasons not to offer things up particularly for an incumbent who has protected status and so so keeping them accountable that this is a shared meal where we both benefit from it versus i get your table scraps because the inclination is to itch back towards table scraps because spectrum managers here or there say oh this might happen and spectrum managers are incredibly imaginative you might think it's adult business it's not they're very imaginative at finding edge cases to prove whatever they want to prove and so so holding the leadership accountable against that goal we want something that is mutually advantageous and mutually fair not table scraps because i think the system sort of has a tendency to move to that and it's it's up to the whole community at the leadership and philosophy level to make sure that it is truly a shared meal and and does it revert towards table scraps maybe that's the ground stage um i just i think this also brings up point that there's a huge incentive for do d in particular to want to share spectrum if you think about it from the standpoint that the sharing with the commercial user base is what enables sort of the development of advanced dual use technologies which is what they're looking to do with 5g for their own deployments both in the kind of things we've heard about in terms of logistics and bases and in building but also out in the field and in tactical environments which by the way are also their own form of private networks and you know it's a way to effectively convert legacy spectrum that is usable in a certain form and format for a very very important mission continue to do that but also make the spectrum future-proof for a new set of missions that is compatible with other commercial uses at the same time and and that's that's a really big deal but i think do d understands and they did not necessarily understand that when we started this process i think this process been a learning journey for for everyone and you know i hope that informs the policy going forward because if you want to have a 5g or 6g capable military they're going to need spectrum and ecosystem that supports the types of missions that they want to undertake on this point when i heard sal on the landfill circle and it's ironic during the consideration of cbrs the military was saying what about bi-directional sharing you know out on our bases there's like the spectrum's not in use why can't we use it when it's not being used because we have needs too and oh and by the way we'd like to get access to commercial 5 wasn't 5g then but commercial 4g and now 5g well cbrs is what's putting it together now they do have spectrum access and they have and it's standardized to the latest technology that they can then shape to to meet their needs and save a lot of money in a more efficient supply chain and all that right for sure so we are over time so is there any questions out here among we're not set up to take them from the folks still online but if anybody else here has a question or a comment quickly we can do it i mean i took your point to mean that cbrs is just getting started and you know there's new applications that will come online by virtue of i think back to john john metzellini's point earlier on there's a platform aspect to this that you start with one application and then you start to layer on i'm not sure if i said your name right sorry okay okay so the three ladies and gentlemen no but i you're layering on more and more applications that's going to but also the basic applications are going to be more you know have higher usage expectations themselves and that leads you down the path of yes we can do more with better sharing better techniques better technology but also more spectrum and and that's seriously it's got to be a serious part of the policy discussion that's happening right now energy use and energy consumption and one thing i'm seeing in in uk and europe is if you're using shared spectrum with low power for example in building or where it's needed coming back to the directionality you're not wasting energy blasting macro signals through walls and heating up concrete and i think that's an argument that i'm seeing advance starting to see advance more correct you know wi-fi makes wi-fi and hair it's the same thing i mean small and localized is cheaper than wide area i mean we now looking at at cellular systems where the antennas take up more power than the transmitters so there's a lot to be if you want to cover an area lots and a lot of low power stuff is a better way to do it than one big high power that's over massively overpowered in the center and it's lazily weak at the edge um but that's a but then it's a matter of your fiber and all the other backhaul so it's a hard argument to make that it's the right architecture but it's exactly what the ctia study missed was that that is where we'd like to be at an end point a developer ecosystem in spectrum from the application perspective i mean these sasses are are large organized data sets right that's the foundation of things like ai you see in 5g where everyone's trying to push to build you know start application companies right around the rick and all of that is is that something we're looking at in spectrum is to start seeing more of these application developer ecosystems on the software side that start leveraging the spectrum data that the sass does some of that it could partner with other entities to to bring that together the reason i was thinking about it is around this fcc notice to to look at ai and and i think you know the sass are perfectly made to start that yeah but i don't sound i don't know if you were around but we uh we had a minor of so originally the fcc first nprm said that the data was public and and google thought frankly that was a good idea anyone could review it a number of the operators were really concerned the privacy of their deployment and so i think was it with you or was it with i think it was after trump came in but then that basically the data's all locked down so i do think we have a repository that that could really be useful but we both federated and google could kind of talk to each other can we release this or not because we'd like to like open the kimona um so people can understand the statistics the type of use how's it moving but we're really hamstrung by what what the operators insisted on i think we need to find an incentive for those operators to want to share that data to to enable us to make smarter decisions um about spectrum usage with but we've got to find the right incentive right um what what what do they benefit what's the benefit to them of sharing that data and i hope um better access to their own spectrum better visibility into how they're using their spectrum those might be incentives worthwhile to to get over that um reticence to to share we just did a nine-month effort at winforum to bow to i'm sorry see where's alliance for our coexistence to enable this ass to tell the guy might who might be interfering to get just the two of them together to talk about the interference because of all of the the limitations that appeared in the final reports in order but yeah it's a it's a lost opportunity and we should never let that happen again but again it's a good example of let's continue to improve the government to commercial sharing and let's continue to improve commercial commercial sharing um both of those are all vote john was right yes no no no and i would add if you have more spectrum it also solves some of these problems as well all right well that's it that sounds like the right note to end on so uh please join me in thanking this group and thank you all for being here today