 Good afternoon to everyone who's watching, good afternoon to Nate and Nwandi who are joining me today on this roundtable about media as a consultative instrument. We're very excited for this opportunity to be able to share some thoughts on this really important topic. So today on this panel we have three presenters I'll be doubling as a presenter and a chair. But our first presenter is Nwandi Lawson. So Nwandi will be addressing the three roles of media production and consumption. She'll be speaking of the role of the media professional, the social media content producer and the media consumer. And Nate will be addressing reliance, truthfulness and inspiration, the creative process and artistic life. And I will be addressing media as a contribution to social discourse. So before we begin, I'm just going to share a little bit about Nwandi. Nwandi will be our first speaker. So Nwandi is a West Coast native. She received an MBA from Emory University and an undergraduate degree in journalism from Howard University. She's an entrepreneur in Atlanta with experience hosting, writing and producing for CNN, TBS and Georgia Public Broadcasting. Nwandi has been of a high since 2001 and she currently serves on the Continental Board of Counselors for the Americas, an institution that's focused on promoting education and channeling individual and collective endeavor into community advancement. If you have questions while Nwandi speaks, please feel free to use to scroll down and add comments to add your questions. We'll be answering questions at the end of the presentation, but would love to start collecting them from now. So please Nwandi. Thank you so much, Nava. It's a pleasure to be with you and with Nate and with all the other friends who are joining us today. Just talk about this very important subject, of course, one that touches all of us, that is, you know, media. We all have some role to play in its production and its consumption, and certainly now as social media content producers as well. So I'm sure it doesn't go without notice for all of us that the pace of the world is going very, very quickly. And surely, since the time that I was first invited to present on this very important topic. A lot has happened, right? We're in the midst of a very fast moving pandemic. There's a rapid search to find a cure of a vaccine or some way to mitigate the suffering of millions. There's so much going on with economies all over the world and also just this very, very heated and very important time here in the United States, where social change has really come to the forefront, particularly in the area of those who are considering a movement towards racial justice and equality. So, you know, from the time that first learned that we were going to be doing this panel to today, we also have been able to receive some additional guidance from the Universal House of Justice, of course, the Supreme Governing Institution for all of the Baha'is in the world and certainly the haven for humanity. So we were all certainly looking with great interest at this message that came to us in July, July 22, as a matter of fact, just over a week ago. I'm not significant about this message, not only that it's addressing, of course, the social conditions of our time, but the fact that the last time that the Universal House of Justice addressed a message to the believers in the United States was in 1988. Now this message, depending on whether you live in Canada or whether you live in the United States, you may know it as individual rights and freedoms or individual rights and responsibilities quite interesting how those different titles have appeared. In any case, you know that a large part of this message from 1988 now makes up a section of the Ruhi Institute materials it's now part of the second unit of the ninth book, and it's about mankind's coming to maturity. So we might give consideration to this message in looking at our role and the role of media as this constructive instrument that it can be it can be a constructive instrument for consultation. One of the things that we saw when we read this message from the Universal House of Justice that came to us most recently is the responsibility really of all bias. So it said to us that every believer as the promulgator of Bahá'u'lláh's central principle of the oneness of humanity should deeply meditate upon it and weigh its demanding implications for the profound alteration of thought and action required at this time. And I think about that obviously as a responsibility that we have at this time regardless of how we consider our particular role but maybe for purposes of this discussion we can give thought to what it is that every believer has a responsibility for in terms of the transformation of the oneness of humanity. If in fact we are talking about media. Right. So, you know when we describe media naturally we're talking about a range of activities and pursuits including broadcasting and publishing and the internet. Of course the number of media platforms is constantly changing at a very rapid pace but you know where we're talking not about a singular contribution or a singular way that we're consuming we're actually talking about very many and in all of these spaces if we're to consider that the Bahá'u'lláh has a responsibility for promulgating the oneness of humanity. We might then begin to think for ourselves. Okay, what are some of the ways across broadcasting across publishing on the internet. As I'm designing video games any of the ways that I'm contributing to media. How actually am I upholding and affirming the oneness of humanity. If I go back now in time and as I mentioned this 1988 message to the highs of the United States that was the last time that the House of Justice wrote directly to the entire population to be sure you know of the individual messages that have been shared with individuals who had questions and wrote to the House of Justice in the United States and then they received their answers but in this case this was again written to all of the believers in the United States and the House of Justice wrote in 1988. In light of all this, the code of conduct of the press must embrace the principles and objectives of consultation as revealed by Bahá'u'lláh. Only in this way will the press be able to make its full contribution to the preservation of the rights of the people and become a powerful instrument in the consultative processes of society and hence for the unity of the human race. So maybe just a little note for you know about myself as Navajo was very kind to give an introduction. I began my media career I guess professionally post college and internships and so forth and CNN here in Atlanta. I came here in 1992 and thought that I would work for CNN for about two years and leave probably would then return to the West Coast but I've been in Atlanta ever since I really do find it to be a wonderful place to live and to work. But you see, in all of those that time that I was initially, you know, getting my foray into the media and so forth as a professional, I had never heard of the Bahá'u'lláh. So in 2001, I did become a Bahá'u'lláh and I've been been been able to learn a great deal since that time and one day, not too many years ago, a friend of mine, and I were talking about some of the challenges that we see in communities around us and so forth. And she said, do you remember when we were youth, and we were all studying this message from the House of Justice and she went on to point out some of these these points like the paragraph that's on the screen right now and I said to her. No, I did not remember this I was never a Bahá'u'llh. Tell me more. Well, she did. And most importantly, because I had a smartphone I could just look at the message and I began to read it and I thought, oh my goodness, this has so many aspects and we'll talk about some of those when we get to social media as well. It completely predated of course the arrival of social media in which more and more people could actually contribute as members of the press whether or not they were professionals. But in this case, I was particularly attracted to find out what it was that the House of Justice was calling those of us who were contributing in our profession to the media. And it said that you know we have to embrace these principles of consultation as revealed by Bahá'u'llh. So I thought back on all the years that I've spent in newsrooms and in other production houses and working on many projects and I thought, have I ever seen a group of people attempting to engage in a consultation. And I frankly had not. In fact, I'd seen a lot of rancor and in fact I thought it perhaps that was actually the culture of the environment that everyone came in and they and they tried their best to kind of muscle their own viewpoint across and everyone kind of accepted that that was the culture. Well, knowing that this was the case that in fact the contribution needed to be consultative. I wanted to find out okay what exactly are these principles of consultation and so certainly, you know there's there's many many sources for this and you've probably studied many of them yourself. But just to emphasize this one that comes from Abdul Bahá'u'llh in which he says that the purpose is to emphasize that consultation must have for its object, the investigation of true. What expresses an opinion should not voice it as correct and right, but set it forth as a contribution to the consensus of opinion, for the light of reality becomes apparent when two opinions coincide. A spark is produced when flint and steel come together. Man should weigh his opinions with the utmost serenity, calmness and composure before expressing his own views he should carefully consider the views already advanced by others. If he finds that a previously expressed opinion is more true and worthy, he should accept it immediately and not willfully hold to an opinion of his own. By this excellent method, he endeavors to arrive at unity and true. So again, I was fascinated by this as a media professional because never in my life had I seen this behavior in a newsroom. The idea that a consensus of opinion was actually the goal, and that in fact people could share their opinions and they could share them, even if they were differing, but with serenity, calmness and composure. That's interesting because actually I can tell you just go as an aside I remember my one of my first performance reviews at CNN when I had first begun in the newsroom, and I got very good marks and and and my supervisor was actually, you know, giving me some some good praise and good feedback, and she added, you know, it would be nice if you could at least act upset when things are going on, because you're making people very uncomfortable with the fact that you're not yelling back at them. So the culture of the environment was one that actually did not uphold serenity calmness and composure. Likewise this idea that before expressing one's own views, one could carefully consider the views of the others, and then begin to advance the opinions or the experiences, and then by this method we could arrive at true. So since we're of course trying to learn at all times about these points of unity that we have and it would do no good for, I think, myself to arrive in the newsroom and to try to impose this on a culture that has something else I would begin to think about. What are some of the ways then that this can though begin to little by little seep into an environment. I set out an experiment. And I, my first experiment with working with a team of media professionals around the principles and objectives of consultation was actually with a group of people with whom I was producing political debates a few years ago. Now you might think my goodness, that's the height of contention, right, it's politics, and it's debates. What a nice time to introduce consultation. So, I did as a producer on the project, I just simply introduced these simple points that you see here. The fact that we could come to some decisions about what we were going to do, based on this process of consultation, and that this this process is elevated above the random voicing of opinions and viewpoints. It's a process by which a group attempts to discover what is needed to reach a unified vision. Once we reach that stage, we all agree to joyfully execute the plan. And one of the things one of the slides that I showed them at that point was that in consultation there is no I told you so. So we're never going to back up and say I told you this wasn't going to work we're actually going to make effort to learn how to do this and to see what happens. So some some basic ideas I mean obviously this is not in the least bit exhaustive it's not particularly, you know, well researched I'm sure that more can be done with it but just some basic ground rules right we're going to base this on generosity. Everyone's free to share what is known to him or her. We're going to do this with detachment. Once something is shared it becomes the property of the group. So we can all trust that the group has the capacity to consider what is being shared and there's no need for us to lobby for the adoption of our own ideas and humility. We all recognize that we're contributing to the search for the best solution, and we're all dependent on each other to develop this more complete view, and that we honor the thoughts and ideas of others and avoid belittling teasing or any of the other things that we normally do so we gave it a shot. And in fact, we did some things for instance like the idea of the the idea belonging to the group we reinforce that by writing down these ideas and putting them in a bowl in the middle of the of the table. And it now it doesn't belong to you anymore would say it belongs to the group so don't worry anymore about what happens to it it's in safe keeping in the bowl. In that way, we were actually able to make some progress and we started trying to learn about this a little bit so you know it's kind of early I don't have any any decisive details to give you about how well this works, but I just share it as an example of the fact that really any behind media professional can contribute to this kind of an environment. And this kind of an environment one thing that I can say about it is it builds trust, and trust is just a big part of what we need to learn about those of us who work in media. Now, we hear all the time about how there's a diminishing regard for the media as there is for other institutions in our society and this was from a few research study last year, which found that, yes, there were so many reasons to see that people had taken their level of trust for media, and they put it into some political baskets by and large so the partisan dynamics of trust are very strong. But I show you this only because I thought it was very interesting to look at some of the other factors that didn't score quite as high, but one of them is that Americans who express greater trust in others tend to give the news media higher marks than those who are less trusting. In general, if it is that I am part of a community I'm in an environment where I feel that I can trust that I'm likely also to extend that trust to the media as well and so I began to you know kind of think and maybe experiment a little bit with the teams of people that I get to work with. What happens if we try to strengthen the bonds of trust that we have internally, does that actually contribute to the media environment as well. This is just one of the you know what one of my my small experiments and in trying to do this. Now the other element that we need to think about as media professionals is our voice. Right. So we all have the opportunity in some way through words through pictures through music, all different ways we get a chance to articulate to a public, some particular view. And in this case we might look to something that the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States wrote back in 2017, and they noted that the language we use and the attitudes we take while not ignoring the harsh realities that exist in the world should appeal to the nobler aspirations of our fellow citizens. They should reflect assurance that the vast majority of us sincerely desire justice and must be unifying, rather than divisive. And again, this is a very unique perspective that a behind producer can bring because naturally there may be some tendency if it hasn't been noted that you actually can tell the story without it becoming this clash between views, and with this assumption that there is an other, and we must, you know, set out to to discredit this other. So what you can do that of course is, you know, there's actually behind media that's being produced and I just wanted to share one example this is the a rich tapestry series which is produced by the National Spiritual Assembly of the Baha'is of the United States. And this particular series seeks to demonstrate the various ways that this simple strand of love the idea that communities can come together, and that in some way they can begin to learn about overcoming some of these tendencies that tend to divide us. So let me show you a brief excerpt from one of the rich tapestry videos, and this one is called being heard in the face of paternalism. It comes out of the Baha'i community of the Navajo Nation in Arizona. And you'll notice that the topic being covered paternalism that could inherently be extremely divisive and it could, you know, if we wanted to fall into some sort of a call out culture, we could certainly make it into something that it didn't need to be. Pay attention, if you will, to kind of the use of the language which on the one hand does not try to push down the fact that this exists and maybe that we need to overcome it, but then also looks at the nobler aspirations of those around us. How are we going to be heard in Baha'i spaces? I think part of repairing that relationship is asking, right off, what do you need instead of going, I think you need this. That's paternalism. That happens a lot with the relationship between foreign religions and Native American people. Coming from the population, I always felt there was an injustice somehow to that and I didn't know how to explain it. The obstacles were, as this group of young people were arising and trying to find language and expression of their own thoughts and what we were experiencing with the core activities. We ran into paternalism. We've always been here in this land in the area between the four sacred mountains, which encompasses the Four Corners region, the Arizona, New Mexico, Utah and Colorado. This relationship between the Western world and Native communities has been a turbulent one in many Indigenous people in the United States, weighed down by this really terrible history of colonialism. Colonialism is the total subjugation and dominance of one nation over another, forcing upon that nation their beliefs and ideas and religious systems, social economic systems. In the same sense, paternalism is the attitude that we know best for you and regardless of your beliefs or your will for your own self or your own tribe, this is why Native Americans tune out immediately when you begin to tell them about another religion. Because they're expecting that attitude of paternalism and that Western colonial attitude that they know what's best for you and thereby they're not giving Native Americans a choice. The attitude is persisted and bluntly that attitude is racist. It's racism. It's embedded in our very American culture. It permeates just about everything we do and think. And the Native communities have, in a sense, built walls against it. How does an Indigenous community move from a narrative of oppression to a narrative of integration ultimately to a narrative of oneness? Here in this cluster with the Indigenous friends is that many of them are beginning to arise to think about how does community building look like within our nation? Because our dear Indigenous friends have not only just the wider community to think about, but they also have to think about this cultural element that is important to this walk that we're having. It's going to take many, many friends to learn how to address some of the social ills and the prevailing thoughts of habit while learning to be in the arena of service with others while we develop our spiritual identity and begin to invite others in the social and spiritual transformation of our community. That's just a small example of how in the language that we use and the attitudes that we take that we're not ignoring the harsh realities, in this case paternalism. But we're also remembering that there are nobler aspirations and that we do genuinely believe that the majority of people have these and we want to call those to our attention. So I want to just add one final thought as far as the profession that we're engaging in, many of us. And that is that while this is for instance an example of Baha'is producing for Baha'i media. And by the way, the Rich Tapestry series is produced by both Baha'i producers and producers who have not yet formally enrolled in the faith. So everyone is contributing to this product. But we also can remember that for those who are working within organizations that are not Baha'i or Baha'i inspired, as some of the previous examples I gave, those are also spaces where we're able to engender this new spirit. So, you know, back to this idea of trust, right, because we said that if we can possibly build more trust in the areas that we're working as professionals, maybe this will contribute to a more well rounded press that can actually base its dealings in consultation. Well, this is also something that we probably want to think about as social media content creators, which many if not all of us actually are. I know a few people will say to me, I don't have anything to do with this. But for the most part, many of us are actually contributing to this environment. And we do need to see about building trust because we can see like in this particular peer research study, 72% of US adults say social media companies have too much power and influence in politics today. And they extend that to other areas as well and you all had a chance if you were following the hearings on Capitol Hill here in the US this week to see that the heads of the social media and other online companies were brought to Congress because there is no concern about this level of control that they may have. But then as individuals, what kind of control do we have. So we might again turn back to this message from 1988 which I just find fascinating because of course there wasn't any social media then. So, we have to kind of look at this and say well this this is actually giving us some ideas of what was going to come in the future. And one of the things that the House of Justice writes is as to the manner and style, Bahá'u'lláh exhorted authors among the friends to write in such a way as to would be acceptable to fair minded souls and not lead to coviling by the people. So think about our ability to contribute to media through through our social media pose. Maybe some of us are actually working in this forum professionally as well we might do marketing and in other areas. Are we thinking about these points of unity that we can actually draw ourselves to, and what that unique, the high contribution might be. And it would be obviously one that would draw us to the incontrovertible truth of the oneness of humanity. How we would do that, at times might draw us to, you know, go directly to some of the guidance of the institutions and simply to repost it. It might be some of the writings of the faith as we see very beautifully done by by many of our friends. And at times it might be just seeking a point of unity that we have and drawing on that. And I'm just sharing this one. This is just a small example for myself because I saw a couple of weeks ago that one of my friends, a woman that I used to work with in public broadcasting, who is also the mother of a child with autism. And so she posted this meme, which says a child with disabilities often spends hours being taught how to interact with others. But why don't we spend time teaching those without disabilities to interact with them. So you say, well, what's the point of unity here? Well, I'll just read to you what I thought to be the point of unity. And again, this is just an individual who's contributing in some way to social media. I responded to her post and said, you know, designating certain human beings as disabled, when we all have a range of capacities and challenges is a sign of humanity's need to reach full maturity. In one other instance, is it acceptable to define a person's identity as that which they cannot do. If we all agree to this standard, then hereafter please only refer to me as in Wendy Lawson the geographically disabled. If you ever had to ride with me to a video shoot in the 90s you are undoubt you undoubtedly will agree with this designation. In one day exactly where are we going, you're supposed to go north not east. Instead, most of you have decided to appreciate me for what I can do, and have made no big deal about the fact that I use an assistive technology called GPS to better function despite my disability. This is of course not generally what we're thinking about in terms of oneness I know that people are often you know we're thinking about racial divides and class divides and sexism and all of those are very significant. But I just shared this one because you know as we're going through just scrolling through that feed every day and thinking to ourselves, what are the points that will connect us to the central purpose of the Baha'i Faith. We'll see that there are quite a few of them and we can contribute in that way as social media content producers. And then finally I just wanted to, of course, you know just briefly to point out that there's one area on social media that we know we definitely don't have any question at all we're not we're not confused and that's the area of politics right. Because of course in this message that we received in December of 2019, we see this this this piece here speak down no word of politics was the Council of Abdul Baha to one believer adding, except to speak well of them, make no mention of the Earth's kings and the governments thereof. That actually gives me a lot more free time because unless I have something positive to say about the rulers and the governments of the of the of the world, I really can maintain silence. So that's a that that that frees up our schedule to do some other things as well. I just was going to mention of course we are all media consumers in various ways. And so we're going to be looking with those searching eyes you know that true justice of course is to see with searching eyes. So we have to look through all of the content that we have access to whether it's online, whether it's in the books that we read whether it's the movies that we're watching. And I would just suggest that we can continue to share this with one another. How are we learning about becoming more intelligent and more informed consumers how are we able to see with our own eyes and to find out what it is that we should best spend our time with. And then I just wanted to get to close with this line from that message that we received just a week or so ago because I think it tells us a lot about what our approaches to all of these things and overall strategy if you will, to our profession in bringing media to our contributions as social media content producers and to our contributions as consumers which we all happen to be the House of Justice writes it is not possible for you to affect the transformation envisioned by Bahá'u'lláh merely by adopting the perspectives practices concepts criticisms and language of contemporary society, your approach instead will be distinguished by maintaining a humble posture of learning, weighing alternatives in light of his teachings, consulting to harmonize differing views and collective action and marching forward with unbreakable unity in serri lions. So hopefully these are a few thoughts that are helpful to us and of course as now I mentioned earlier, you can put any comments or questions that you have for us into that add comments section at the bottom of the screen and, and hopefully we can continue the conversation but thank you for giving me your time. You just need to unmute yourself now. Thank you. Thank you so much during one day always learn something when listening to you and that was a really thought provoking presentation so I hope friends will share questions and comments as they come to you. So I will be sharing next my presentation as I mentioned is on contributing to the discourses of society through media. So I can share that I have two perspectives that I'll be kind of approaching this from so one is that for four years I served as the senior researcher and writer of the Bahá'í international community and the Bahá'í international community is an agency that represents the Bahá'í faith at the United Nations and its primary task is to contribute to the discourses of society at the international level and its first audience its primary audience is the UN. So in that role, I thought daily about what it meant to participate in discourse to contribute to discourse to operate with other actors. And about a year and a half ago started working in film and television and started working on a small emerging production company and no doubt influenced by my experience at the Bahá'í international community had kind of a premise that I wanted to test out which was this idea that you could approach the contribution to the media as a contribution to the discourses of society and that if you did that it might have a different outcome. So I'm going to share a little bit about that experience first and then I'll pivot back to the Bahá'í international community. So I wanted to start by sharing this quote of the Universal House of Justice and it's one that my colleagues and I so I have two colleagues Penn Badgley and Chelsea Allen. It's one that we we think about if not explicitly the themes that it introduces are ones that are present on our minds I would say constantly. So in the in its message of 28 December 2010, the Universal House of Justice said they are called upon to become increasingly involved in the life of society benefiting from its educational programs excelling in its trades and professions, learning to employ well its tools and applying themselves to the advancement of its arts and sciences. At the same time, they are never to lose sight of the aim of the faith to affect the transformation of society, remolding its institutions and processes on a scale never before witnessed. To this end, they must remain acutely aware of the inadequacies of current modes of thinking and doing. This without feeling the least degree of superiority without assuming an air of secrecy or aloofness and without adopting an unnecessarily critical stance towards society. And the reason that this is a passage that comes to mind constantly is that I find that it can be easy to land on one of these two sides. So we're just going to focus on building something new and like out with the old burn it down, none of it works. Or to be very complacent with the current systems and not really think about what it means to be a Baha'i to have access to the revelation of Baha'u'llah, whose purpose is really to affect this total transformation in society and to really think about well, what does that mean it certainly means that I can't be doing things in the exact same way as everyone else. And so it's a question that we're constantly grappling with how do we show humility before the accumulated knowledge of humanity and there's a lot that's been learned that's good that's useful that we'd like to continue forward. And then how do we also show appropriate circumspection around certain assumptions and ideals and remind ourselves that it's not all good. So that's a quote that helps. So our emerging company and I do want to say that it's a very young production company. We even had conversations about whether it was insane for me to do this presentation because we're so young. We have not proven our premise but we do have a premise. So it's really offered in a spirit of learning and you can stay tuned and see if we're able to deliver on this. But our premise as we started working together was that our work could be pursued both an approach and in content as a contribution to the discourses of society. And that this work was really situated in a larger enterprise which is advancing civilization by translating that which has been written by the pen of Baha'u'llah into reality. And so I share this because when so Penn and I started working together first before Chelsea joined us and when we started working together it was on a distinct project. And as we were working on that project we were having a lot of conversations about media what I was learning at the UN what he had experienced his whole life in the industry. And sort of agreed that there needed to be a different premise like there's one premise that's very driven by advertising dollars and a financial bottom line and lots and lots of clicks that sort of you know it's like basically money and enlarge viewership is sort of what drives content and that you can get into some really dark places when that is your your main sort of barometer of whether or not something is good or successful. So we had conversations about OK on this particular piece that we're working on what is our what is our motivation what is our goal and also how does it become commercially viable. And in that process really started to think about actually forming a company and and and having an ethos that was very clear from the beginning and so there were a few options that seemed really obvious to us so one is feel good content we could just dedicate ourselves to making really positive feel good content various reasons we didn't feel like that was appropriate. So then another option we thought about was explicitly teaching the high faith that could be a goal that all of our content somehow explicitly teaches the high faith and we also felt that that would be very limiting to us if we made that our goal. And then a third option certainly there are more than three but these are the ones that we weighed was was this third one and and part of why it was so appealing to us was because we really felt that media. When you make a piece of content it automatically contributes to public discourse and media is really a very powerful force in society that is shaping discourse, whether or not the creators are intending it it's the outcome. And so one it would help us to be really conscious of the fact that whatever we create is shaping discourse in some way or contributing to it. But the other is that in the conversations with the networks the executives the producers, there is a way that we would approach it if we were viewing it as discourse that might be different than if we were viewing it as making a sale. And so we've had to really try to hold ourselves to that standard. And I would say that it hasn't been too challenging. Yet we've been so excited about it that I think that excitement kind of gives us drive. So in thinking about this, we have to leave sort of come up with a few principles of engagement, many of these I will say are borrowed from the behind international communities, some things that the behind international community has learned about discourse, and a few that are particular to our own experience. So our first principle of engagement is this idea that we can appeal to the higher nature of our audience. And to remember that our audience has a higher nature because so much of media seeks to appeal to the lower nature and does it very well. But we have a different approach. Another principle was that we should use expansive language and ideas both in the content we create and in our conversations with executives. And ideas and language that seek to broaden perspectives to raise consciousness and to promote unity of understanding. So we're not too interested in very controversial expose a call out that that's not the path that we're going down. Another principle is that we would like to tell stories that offer or reflect a vision of the trajectory being traversed by humanity, and in particular a humanity that is coming of age and that is embodying its oneness to greater degrees. So how do we make sure that that anything we make is coherent with the maturity of humanity and the oneness of humanity. We hope eventually to be able to challenge old thought very respectfully, including limiting and erroneous assumptions and this is something that we have found useful in our conversations with networks and executives and I'll share about that a little bit down the line. We hope to energize the spaces that we engage and permeate the content we create with the spirit of enthusiasm, optimism and hope. We hope to engage in a consultative manner with other media actors with the aim of building capacity in ourselves and others. This has been a really interesting area that that's come up for us more recently as we're starting to collaborate with with other producers. Sort of that we have capacity that needs to be built and they might have particular skills that can help us and and to kind of seek that out, but also that we have a certain mindset that is distinct and that it might be helpful to share with other producers and to think about how can we help in their kind of capacity building process so it's very early for us to be considering that but we have started to think in those terms. We also hope to share insights and experiences that will give effect to the good will and good intentions of others and this is something that Shachriar Razavi talks about in his chapter in the book. Religion. But religion and public discourse it was a recent publication, I think Jeff Cameron and Ben Scholl were the editors. So in his chapter he talks about this that this is really important. And I and it's something that really resonated with us that that we should assume that others do have good intentions and do have good will and what can we share that will give effect to that whether or not it's at all involved in our own projects it doesn't always need to come back to us. And then a final thing that we've been thinking about a lot this might be one of the ones we're thinking about the most is this idea that mastery is a prerequisite to successful innovation. So we want to understand the form and show humility before the knowledge of others and innovate on what isn't working rather than is. We found ourselves early on in a position of maybe being a little bit to the extreme of like none of it's working it's all got to be new. And actually we found that no there are actually certain things that are done in film and television that completely make sense and once you start looking into it you understand why. And it's not all that so that's not what we need to innovate on but there are other things that that are lacking and that's what we should focus our attention on. So today are the principles of engagement of our company and areas that we have not mastered but are trying to learn about. So, a conversation that we have frequently is one that has to do with patterns. So our another premise that we have is that any film or television episode is offering a pattern of behavior and whether or not the creators think they're endorsing it we feel like when people watch the content it's usually there they're feeling that what's being offered is positive and that it's something that they should emulate even in the case of very dark shows where it's clearly people that are deplorable. There's something about if the tone is like edgy or sexy or super appealing that still resonates as positive. And so we want to be very conscious of what we're saying is is a is a thing that is worthy of emulation. So there are a few quotes that really inspire us in this area. So one is from the Universe House of Justice. So the House of Justice has shared that humanity is weary for want of a pattern of life to which to aspire, and that a single soul can uphold a standard far above the low threshold by which the world measures itself. One has said that as material affairs go from bad to worse in the world, the confidence, optimism, love and hope of the believers will by force of contrast shine out as an ever brighter beacon, leading the people to the path of truth, the way laid down by God, which alone can guide them to the promise I'll come back to this quote in when I pivot to the behind our national community and how the behind our national community really thinks about this in a in a very conscious way. And then this final quote by the Guardian is that it is certain that with the spread of the spirit of Bahá'u'lláh, a new era will dawn in art and literature. Whereas before the form was perfect, but the spirit was lacking. Now there will be a glorious spirit embodied in a form immeasurably improved by the quick and genius of the world. This quote also was very relieving and I think it has to do with this idea of not going to either extreme here the Guardian is actually praising a form but but acknowledging that the spirit is lacking but also acknowledging that with this new spirit of Bahá'u'lláh even the form will be improved when that appeared to be perfect. So he's not condemning it but he's really expanding what's possible. So that that seems to be a helpful place to start from. So we have two goals with respect to our content two goals for now. This might expand but for now we're sort of thinking about two things when we tried to decide either what content we're creating ourselves or eventually if we start to work with others and try to produce their content. We're interested in telling familiar stories or universal stories in a new way, and we're interested in telling new stories with courage and wisdom. So I'll give two examples. I can't share too much because they're both in development. But one project that we're working on which tells a familiar story in a new way is a story about a relationship and marriage and we've had a lot of conversations as a team about what what are we trying to say about relationships. And are we trying to show a perfect relationship the perfect couple that has no struggles and how is the relationship so perfect. And that felt really false to us. But then you can also have a story that's really bleak and you know this couple just shouldn't be together and it's clearly going to end you know disastrously and we didn't want to go down that path. We also feel that that path is very popular right now. So something that we consulted about is looking at many of the contemporary like love stories. There seems to be a trend of couples who don't end up together but you don't know why so you've been rooting for them the whole time. The author has not given you or the writers have not given you a clear reason why these people shouldn't be together but in the last scene they choose not to be together. And that that seems to be like a thing that's very untrend. And so we started asking us what does that tell people what does that suggest to them about relationships and and you know whether whether you should just abandon them the moment that they don't serve you or you know anything along those lines. So we started to really think about what would it look like to explore a relationship where there are challenges there are some some difficult things that happen from external influences. That many couples would determine would decide that they should actually step away from that relationship and explore should they or shouldn't they and why and to really give that a lot of thought. But I will say that one thing that we've talked about a lot is this idea that anything that your protagonist does can feel like an endorsement. So we're you know we're still in this conversation of how do you show imperfect people which is the human condition. But not endorse their imperfections so that's something that we're that we're going to learn about we hope to learn about my not get it right first shot but it is something that we're conscious of with respect to telling you stories with courage and wisdom. I would say we have a lot of excitement around this and so one story that I can share about very briefly is that we're we're developing a story that deals with death and the death of a child in particular which you can imagine there's not a lot of appetite for this. And so we're learning about how to share this and our motivation behind it. But but something that we really want to explore with respect to death is sort of this twofold aspect of it so one that death can be very difficult for the people who lose a loved one that that is a tremendous loss and it's not something to be glossed over and that that pain is real and there's a way to navigate it that's healthy and there's a way to navigate it that can lead to despair. But also that there's this other aspect of death that has to do with the soul itself that advances into a new realm of beauty and light. So our project is really trying to explore these two these two dimensions of death and we'll see we'll see if we find a buyer for it. So that's an example of our projects. I mentioned this earlier on but one of these early conversations that we had is how a financial a very strict financial bottom line can be rather ruinous I would say. So a question that we ask ourselves often is you know what is our highest principle, what is our ultimate goal. It is offering a distinct contribution to discourse and a healthy pattern and it's not selling the material at any cost but we do want to sell and produce our material. So this has certain implications so one is how do we choose content. How do we pitch that content. How do we engage with executives and how do we incorporate their feedback. So I can share a little bit about that. One thing that we saw as we started pitching some of these shows in particular there was a children show that we were trying to sell last year that was very educational education first. And we we took it probably to every major children's network except one, and we got a very similar response so the response was very encouraging people were really impressed with the team and you know one network said everyone who's come here is trying to sell you're a team and you're a team that came trying to sell hope and that like resonated with us, but they all felt that the concept was too educational and that there wasn't an appetite and children for educational content you have to like, you know mix the honey with the medicine or hide it in the broccoli whatever whatever that metaphor is. We heard it a lot. So, you know one thing is that we acknowledge that maybe the concept had like a fundamental flaw and we'll have to retool it but it's also possible that it's ahead of what the market thinks is viable right now and you know we'll come back to it. But what we saw was that in the executives that we met with there was a desire to develop and to see more hopeful and meaningful content but that the desire was not matched equally by a clear willingness to commit resources. And what we saw was that we work with do have a financial bottom line they are responsible to their network if they green light programs that don't deliver. And so that that for now seems to be an inevitable part of the motivation and so we have to be conscious of that, but I would say that we left that experience feeling very encouraged and very bolstered because the response was so positive and and one network in particular that we met with they shared with us that there is a sea change in their network, a major network there's a sea change in their network right now in terms of thinking about content for children and they're starting to ask themselves are we creating content that is harming kids and if we are we don't want to do that. So how do we, how do we pivot and do something that's more around social justice, I can only imagine that that's increased in the current moment. I also shared that they don't know how to crack this like as they've been having these company wide meetings no one has figured out the way to do it. So it's, it's really, there's a path to discover that it feels like no one actually knows how to discover and certainly our company doesn't know so we would not say like, this is how you do it. But it's something that we want to learn about and we feel like we can learn about. Our next premise is that there is an appetite and therefore there is an audience for content that appeals to nourishes and reflects the bright side of human nature. And that is something that we're trying to hold ourselves accountable to that are that our content would really do that, even while grappling with difficult social things. And I'll share a little bit about the high international community. So the behind our national community has recently started experimenting with film and short, short clips if you follow them on social media you've surely seen some. And this year they had they will be releasing I believe it's their first feature length film and the topic is on gender equality. This is really appropriate and fitting for a number of reasons that I could give a whole presentation about but the behind our national community has really done outstanding work in this arena of gender equality and contributing to this conversation at the UN and among its civil society partners. And it's an area where it has a rich kind of breadth of experience to draw from. And it's an area where the high global community who the behind our national community represents also has a lot of experience. And this year is the 25th anniversary of something called the Beijing Declaration and platform for action. So the Beijing Declaration and platform for action is a really important instrument that delineates 12 areas of critical concern that governments around the world agreed to in terms of advancing the rights of girls and women around the world and to date there has never been a more sophisticated instrument or agreement. One could question why in 25 years there hasn't been a more advanced one but nevertheless that's the case. So this is a very significant anniversary. So as this anniversary was coming up the BIC was really thinking about the appropriate way to honor it. And it decided that it would like to make a feature film in honor of this anniversary. And so there were certain conversations about, you know, if the UN is the audience, you know how is the UN thinking about this anniversary how is it thinking about this theme. I'll speak only for myself here not I no longer am with the behind our national community but my sense is that there is a degree of pessimism and some lack of hope in the current moment because there has been a rise of you know populist and authoritarian and activist regimes, maybe in places where one didn't expect that that those would come into place and there's a fear that women's rights are very vulnerable in those kinds under those kinds of governments, and, and attempts to kind of repeal gains that that were previously thought to be, you know, very solid and so that that spirit has entered many of the conversations. So the BIC was really thinking about, you know how do you acknowledge and offer something to an audience that is grappling with very serious questions, these are legitimate concerns. And at the same time, you know what is our view of progress so if we think about the human being as, you know, a gem of an estimable value and a resource that can grow and develop over time. I think we would say that even under the worst regime there are certain gains that can never be lost like when a person has reached a certain level of consciousness and enlightenment that won't be reversed. So while it's important to have these strong policies, let's not forget all of the gains that have been made over the past 25 years that that actually won't be lost and aren't threatened. So in this film, the BIC chose to have a lens of hope and to really focus on the gains and advances that have been made over the last 25 years while acknowledging that there is some concern. So the tone is not glib and it's not naive, but it is very hopeful and the BIC really chose to focus on strength. So in this film it will explore five communities, the condition of women and men and five communities around the world, and it will focus on four themes. So one is, you know, the role of religion in advancing gender equality, the role of education advancing gender equality, the role of the family as a space that shapes it and safeguards it and the role of men and boys in this process. And I have permission from the BIC to share a trailer of this film, which will be released in the fall of 2020, so soon. And I believe that the trailer will also go live on the BIC's social media accounts today at five. So if you're five Eastern time, so if you're intrigued by it, if you like it, please feel free to share it generously with your own contacts. So, Ben, please share the trailer. In 1995, at a global conference concerning the rights of women, governments from around the world agreed on a comprehensive plan to achieve global legal equality, known as a Beijing declaration and platform for action. Beijing was a celebration of women's power. Yes, it is Beijing. That's you, that's right, I remember this. Twenty-five years later, we offered glimpses into the state of gender equality in communities around the world. As women are accorded their equal place in society, and as women and men increasingly join together to solve the world's greatest challenges, humanity's future prospects grow brighter. So that concludes my presentation. And as we mentioned a few times, if you have questions, we really encourage you to share them. You can scroll down and add comment to add those questions. So we have set aside half hour at the end of this presentation for question and answers, if there are questions. So next, it's my pleasure to introduce Nate Davis. So Nathan Allen Davis, this is formal name, but I call him Nate affectionately. So Nate is a playwright and a television writer based in New York. He's a lecturer in theater at Princeton University. He's a recipient of the Whitting Award in drama, and his plays include Nat Turner in Jerusalem and Don Trell who kissed the sea. He has received commissions from the public theater in New York and the arena stage in D.C. and Audible, among others. In 2018, he was profiled by the New York Times as one of 30 black male writers for our time. His television staffing credits include Sorry for Your Loss and American Soul. Nathan holds an artist diploma from Juilliard School and an MFA from Indiana University. And I can share that I've worked with him on a project and he's a dream collaborator. Thank you, Nava. Hi, everybody. Welcome to this digital space. It's a little odd that I can't see all of you, but I know there's like 100 of you here. Hi, anybody that I know. I'm going to share a few quotations from the Baha'i writings and talk a little bit about the journey of a creative artist, mostly based on my experiences over the past decade or so. And I think mainly my hope is that the things that I'll share will eliminate the path of those of you who are creative artists, but also those of you who are working with and alongside creative artists. And also, for that matter, everybody, because I think that there are certain things with the state of the world today that are destabilizing institutions are not as stable as they used to be. Security is not what it once was. And so I think a lot of the challenges the artists face are becoming more and more common. Even in so-called advanced societies, because people don't have as much stability. So I'm hoping that some of what I say will help to eliminate your own journey. The main themes that I'm going to be talking about are true reliance, truthfulness, and inspiration. And truth be told, I could have probably started anywhere and ended anywhere, but these are three themes that really came to the fore as I was meditating about what I wanted to share with you today. So I'm going to read a quotation from Baha'u'llah from the Words of Wisdom. True reliance is for the servant to pursue his profession and calling in this world, to hold fast unto the Lord, to seek not but his grace, and as much as in his hands is the destiny of all his servants. And I'll read that one more time. True reliance is for the servant to pursue his profession and calling in this world, to hold fast unto the Lord, to seek not but his grace, and as much as in his hands is the destiny of all his servants. One of the reasons why I send a turn back to that quotation again and again. Well, there are a few reasons but one of the main reasons is that being an artist in our culture. I was speaking I guess of American culture because that's where I'm from. Sometimes come to the certain stigma. And the stigma tends to be about ego. We tend to look at the artist as perhaps a depressed genius or really self involved. Those things can sometimes be true. And so it's not to say that those stereotypes without basis. But I think one of the reasons why we have a somewhat negative association of artists with ego and selfishness is we really view art as primarily commodity in our society. And it can become difficult as individual to find your truth in yourself within that. And so, while I think it's very important to always be on guard against the ego because it is a dangerous force for anybody. I recognize that, in essence, true reliance is for the servant to pursue his profession and calling in this world. And that that actually is noble gesture and noble thing to do. And so for those of you who are feeling called for whatever reason or in whatever way towards a life in the arts or a career in media or in the arts, knowing that that's a noble calling. And always keeping that close to heart. I think it's extremely important that has been for me. Another thing is that in the arts rejection is the norm and acceptance is the exception. And I found that the need to hold fast into the Lord is extremely present. And it can really lend a lot of perspective because I found that a lot of times I've been without seemingly without direction. You know, especially if you're in a career path that doesn't have a very definite linear trajectory. You're not necessarily employed in a stable way is actually can be very scary and very daunting. And I found a lot of encouragement from the idea that I can rely on God and and pursue my calling with the trust that something will work out. That can be very difficult, especially if you're not independently wealthy. It's not an easy thing to do and it's not always easy to find a way to balance that. I really believe that if you truly do rely on God and really pursue your calling actively that assistance does come in some way or another. So that is the first thing I wanted to share. I also think that when you begin to achieve some level of success. It's equally important to turn back to the idea of holding fast into the Lord and seek not but his grace. Because, again, we have a certain narratives in our society that say that they really view careers in general and certain artistic careers is a zero sum game in a lot of ways. So either you're successful, famous, and you're running and you're well known, and you're living your dream, or your failure. And if you have some level of success. It also can be tempting to cling too tightly to that idea of success, which can then lead you off of your path and away from the truth. And you can begin operating by fear as opposed to by inspiration. I'm not going to read a couple of quotations about truthfulness. I'm sure many of you are familiar with these. Abdu'l-Baha is quoted in the ebb and divine justice. Truthfulness is the foundation of all human virtues. Truthfulness, progress and success and all without truthfulness progress and success, and all the worlds of God are impossible for any soul. When this holy attribute is established in man, all the divine qualities will also be acquired. And especially as a writer and a storyteller, the truth is the thing that we are all trying to achieve and the thing that we're trying to convey. And the question of what that truth is, of course, as human beings, you know, we aren't prophets and we aren't gods so we can't objectively say will we know the truth. But the idea of keeping your eyes set on telling the truth and being able to tell the truth to the extent that you can see it is extremely important. And what we believe is to be the truths about human nature are what we convey whatever we tell stories and whenever we create characters, whenever we design projects. And so keeping truthfulness at the center of that is very key. And of course, in the hidden words, Bahá'u'lláh equates truthfulness with seeing with our own eyes. Bahá'u'lláh says, talking about justice, the best beloved of all things in my sight is justice, turned out away there from without a xyrus to me, and neglected not that I may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge, and not through the knowledge of thy neighbor. And again, the how essential telling the truth is probably cannot be overstated in pursuing a career in the arts. And I think that there are a lot of ways that in which writers are often encouraged to have a unique voice and to speak their truth and I think there's a definite correlation there between telling the truth as you see it and as you understand the world and success in a certain way, that people can feel authenticity when they hear it and when they read it on the page, and that usually comes from your ability to tell the truth as you see it, not through the eyes of others. I think that as Bahá'u'lláh is people who are in conversation with the Bahá'u'lláh writings and attempting to sort of build this ever advancing civilization that Bahá'u'lláh has brought to us. That can be a complicated endeavor because we are not only trying to talk about reality as we see it through our physical eyes but also through spiritual eyes. And through what we think the world should look like, not only what it does look like. And I think all those things can certainly live together. But one of the difficulties that I know I've faced has to do with self censorship. And so having an idea in my head of what I think I should be saying versus what I'm actually seeing and having to have the courage to write and speak to what I'm actually seeing and not to simply what I think I, what picture I should be painting. And I think that when you talk about going into an editing process with a piece that what you're really doing is you're doing both of those things. You know, you're checking in about the truth of what you're seeing and then you're also checking in about, OK, but how do I want to frame this? What I want to say about this, is this really the truth? And so I think it's a constant conversation we have to be having with ourselves. But again, I always think it's important to go back to the question of the truth. And then I wanted to read a couple of quotations from the fire tablet. Deal with the theme of inspiration. Of course, the last line of the fire tablet is should all the servants read and ponder this. There should be kindled in their vein of fire that will set aflame the worlds. And so really my advice is to read and ponder the fire tablet, like I don't think that I'm, I could say more than the fire tablet says, but I do think there's a couple of things about the fire tablet that are really instructive in terms of our understanding of reality or understanding of a spiritual journey and also potentially our understanding of an effective dramatic structure in some ways. And so I'll begin by explaining that for those of you who aren't familiar, you know, the fire tablet is a tablet that Bahá'u'lláh wrote essentially lamenting to God about the injustice that he was facing but also that his followers and his loved ones were facing and essentially calling out to God for relief from the suffering that Bahá'u'lláh even as the prophet founder of the faith was not immune from human emotions of grief and of despair. And so in the fire tablet Bahá'u'lláh calls out to God for assistance. And the response that then comes, which is also of course written in the fire tablet Bahá'u'lláh then speaking in the voice of God replying to him. The response that comes, and I'm not going to quote all of them in a paraphrase slightly but basically what God's response is, is that you were created to suffer, that were created to bear and endure. And so the response isn't, oh yeah, I heard you. Let me fix that. Oh yeah, okay, good. Thank you for praying and then I answered a prayer. The response is actually reminding Bahá'u'lláh of his mission and his reality that he was capable of handling this suffering. And then Bahá'u'lláh's reply to that response is, verily I have heard thy call, oh all glorious beloved, and now is the face of Bahá'u'lláh flaming with the heat of tribulation and with the fire of thy shining word. And he had risen up into faithfulness at the place of sacrifice, looking toward thy pleasure or gainer of the world. And so I think about that a lot, but I certainly especially think about the idea of Bahá'u'lláh being illumined by both the fire of tribulation and of God's shining word. And that he's immersed in tribulation and suffering and also in inspiration and hope, but that the tribulation itself isn't alleviated per se, it's not ended, rather it's fueling him to action. And then of course, in a way the end of the fire type of the baton has passed to us saying that should all the servants read and ponder this, there would be killed in their veins of fire that will set aflame the worlds. So I think it's important as an artist to have a fire kindled in your veins. And whether that comes directly from reading the fire tablet or not, there are ways in which we know the things that inspire us, the things that cause us great pain, the things that cause us to fear, the things that cause us to hope, the things that make us get up in the morning, the stories that we love to see and wish we could see, the things we long to see. So I think it's essential that we are honest with ourselves and grounded in the truth of what it is that incandles us. But I think that, you know, part of the difficulty of the path of being an artist is that there's not necessarily a definite roadmap. There's not necessarily a direct path that's laid out for you that says okay well if I follow this and this and this, I'll get to hear. I believe that fundamentally it's a commitment to live with their eyes open and to be able to tell the truth in all circumstances, and to accept that there are oftentimes a lot of difficulties that are part and parcel of that path and to actually see the suffering of these as gifts, the same way that God instructs Bahá'u'lláh to frame his experiences as a way of unearthings inherent capacities. But in the same token, I think we as human beings, we have these inherent capacities within us that are really not released until we suffer. And I think that there is a part of taking on an artistic path that demands a certain amount of suffering, and that's to say that you want to be miserable. But simply that when you are pouring your heart and your soul and your mind and your work into a project, and in the majority of circumstances when it doesn't pan out for whatever reason. That pain can be the thing that really awakens your capacities or that illuminates the path that you actually should be on. And so mainly I wanted to encourage you, whatever point you are on in your path in life or in art, to remember the importance of that suffering and to arise to meet it. And with that, I will pass it back to Nama. Thank you so much, Ni. Thank you for that wonderful presentation. Very, very useful and brilliant to connect it to the fire tablet like that. I'll never read the fire tablet in the same way. So we have a few questions that I will share. So we will try to get to all of the ones that we've received. So I'm just going to read these questions aloud and then I'll just direct it to one of the panelists but after that panelist speaks, maybe we can all know if anyone else wants to chime in. So the first question I'm going to direct to you and Wandy. It says, I'd love to know if anyone has had success engaging in meaningful consultation via social media. I find it a powerful platform to share data and information, which can serve as a form of education and elevated understanding. But there are so many individuals who want to just attack anything they disagree with and do not take care in how they phrase their words towards others. So it has felt like a discouraging space to try and have any type of meaningful discussion. Would love to hear anyone's thoughts or experience with this media. Yeah, that's a very good observation. I was thinking, you know, I'd mentioned in my presentation about this message we studied last year when the House of Justice sent us on December 1 of 2019, a message that has social media, you know, embedded within it. And one of the things that the House of Justice says about social media is that the unparalleled ease with which a person can join in such a public debate and the nature of the technology make momentary lapses of judgment and incautious actions more likely and their residue more enduring. So I do think one would want to use caution, right, as to joining. And I do believe that where there hasn't the ground hasn't been particularly well tilled yet, there might be a propensity to do that. So I would say from my own experience that on the one hand, I've seen, you know, many uplifting conversations, as I said, you know, when I have some time during the day, it's just a hobby of mine. I just scroll through and say, wow, where can I infuse oneness, even in a space where people appear that they're discussing something divisive. So that that's one level. But I'll just give an example of another one where I actually was the subject of social media attack. And so that was when there was an episode of racism in the school where my children attend, and a teacher showed an extraordinarily racist video. And I went through the normal channels of first contacting the teacher and trying to do resolve it and then going to the principal and trying to resolve it and eventually to the district and trying to resolve it and eventually to the media because again one of the levels that one who is a professional professional in media, if you know if wise, you actually do have connections and so if there is something to share. I did and and that led to some action on the part of the NAACP and then the school eventually was able to get the anti defamation leak to come in and provide anti bias training to all of the students and teachers. However, there was one reporter here in Atlanta, who very much disapproved of my actions and wrote about it a lot. And said that in fact I was the reason that many teachers get out of the profession, because I'm hyper policing their behavior. So as a result, many people wrote in and you know the Atlanta Journal Constitution page was filled with all of these, you know people who are really speaking out and saying you know this is the exact kind of activism we do not need. And you know just various there and some of the little names that people call each other online I wasn't even familiar I had to go and look up what are they what exactly are they calling me okay. And I will tell you as an individual, that was a difficult period because I had to think to myself, should I log on and look at these things, or should I protect myself from them I actually made a decision in most cases to read them. I didn't kind of follow the discourse as it was taking place, but it had to be done for me for me anyway very prayerfully, because it was very difficult. That being said, I decided that I didn't need to respond to that at all I could see as the person who asked the question. In that case that was just a mob. And they weren't interested in learning more about the discourse or anything like that so I didn't feel that it would be valuable. I will say, I was working with one other parent and she finally based on things particularly on Facebook, a number of parents were speaking out against us and she said I can't take it. And she jumped in and tried to explain to them clearly what we were doing. And she was torn to shreds there and she came out kind of sad. I don't think as the, you know, the person who's asking the question, I think a lot of wisdom has to be used because it's probably not a space that I'm going to transform the views of someone who has very very strong views. In a case where maybe there's a chance to introduce a new perspective kind of like what Nova was speaking about with her own media. Then I think it works out very well and then of course there's also, you know places where people are a little more, a little less, you know, in some sort of an intractable position where one might then add to that conversation and kind of help it to direct itself in a more productive course, but to be sure the landscape out there can be very, very, very vicious so be careful. Thank you. I don't know, Nate, if you have anything you'd like to add to that. I don't think so. That was, yeah. Yeah. All right, Nate, I have a question for you. Nathan, I was deeply moved by your piece time travelers. Can you please speak about this beautiful art and your intention and goal. So time travelers was a short play thing that was I wrote for part of a project called while we breathe, which was a sort of social protest project that I was asked to want to submit to. And it's interesting because actually that's the type of play that has a very definite like, okay, here's the message I want to get across is just think I actually run and hide from partially because it can be really reductive like there's not anything you can say in the play that you can't just say, right. If you have an opinion about the way that black people are treated by law enforcement. You don't need to write a play about it necessarily I mean maybe you do. But the question is always like well what what do I what makes this art what makes this something that's going to elevate a conversation, or this going to deepen the conversation. And I thought about this I was like, oh, then I also thought I was I was definitely feeling a certain way at the time that I was approached and I think that I was able to find something truthful in my own. I struggle to deal with the moment. And so time travelers, the main character is talking about the fact that he doesn't even watch the videos he hasn't watched the video that's being referred, vaguely referred to in the piece of the video of a police is like as soon as I see it began I just, I just, I just keeps growing they don't know how to handle it. And it turns out that he has an entire sort of unravelling story about his relationship with law enforcement and also just like how to handle the conversation itself. And I felt like right in the piece, a lot of me to work through something but also just to try to share the complexity of what happens on the human level, when you confronted with violence even on on screen so I want to just approach it that way and I think that you know I'm glad that people who got something out of it were able to. This was a question directed at me so never you mentioned children's programming and a relationship based program is being good framing for behind inspired stories. Do you approach projects with an idea and see where it goes, or have you considered a genre and what ideas you have that would fit it. Are there any genres you struggle with. This is a great question. I'd say it's a combination of things so one is just to clarify that relationship story is not for children. It's probably for a young adult and adult audience but most of the programs that that Penn and Chelsea and I are developing right now are for children which is. If you had asked Penn and I a year and a half ago when we first started working together Chelsea wasn't part of the team but. If we would be doing children's programming would have said absolutely not I don't think here I had an interest in it. But there was an idea that sort of just struck me as I was waiting for the seven train I remember distinctly for a children so I just started writing it down. Take it to a producer the producer really liked it and we ended up pitching it sort of all around town. The town being Los Angeles and the experience of those pitch meetings and sort of how Penn and I received it. We had another producer but he and I in particular were really struck by one like the openness of the people the executives that we met with for this more like meaningful hopeful content, but to also the the kind of the the dearth of meaningful content in the children's world and this idea that educational content wasn't appropriate for kids or that they wouldn't watch it is one that I think we felt like no we're going to disprove this. And so it kind of like just happened that we had an idea that then became. I don't want to say a mission but it really inspired us to think more about children's content and and to really think about, you know children are so tender and media, I think affects everyone at any age, but children in particular there's so tender. There's so much possibility for media to do good, but there's so much media that is like inane or harmful and that is the majority I think of the content that is pitched to children. So when we were considering that we really felt like okay let's let's take on children's media let's learn about this so not experts haven't sold a project in the children's world yet. But it's something that we really want to learn about. In terms of genres that we struggle with. We've done so little that there are probably many genres that we would struggle with I don't I don't know what I would say there but I would just say that we're not experts at anything. But the other thing that I would add is just kind of being open to the will of God this is probably very obvious but you know to really be open to the will of God and to pray constantly and and draw on this this instrument of meditation so the first show that Penn and I pitched was an adult comedy. And the first network that we took it to is like we would love this idea if you made it a family show. And we're like huh and we you know we consulted and decided that that was appealing to us and and that also we've sort of found that the confirmations that we've received have been with a younger audience, even if it wasn't our original intense we're really open to you know maybe that's the will of God for us to really be reaching a younger audience and and maybe we'll find that over time it's not that and open but I think that's how we feel now. Okay, no and another question for you. How do you communicate this higher standard of consultation and discourse to people who think they're on the same page of transformation, but are still playing into systems like partisanship, very dismissive of those with varying opinions. Yeah, I think that's pretty much every day right because you know if we reflect on it. How would the people know about this system of consultation I as I said, you know I've been of a high since 2001. I wouldn't have known anything about this had I you know not actually been introduced to the revelation of Allah so I think you know just through the natural channels that there are there. There are pieces that can become more consultative right because actually media is a collaborative endeavor. There's usually not a one man or one woman show right it's usually even if it is the performance is done by one. Those that make up the team whether it's in television whether it's in film whether it's in theater is made up of many so there's some space in which it is intended that we're coming to some agreement about what we're doing. I would just suggest that my experience has been, often we can bring to that environment, some of the tools of consultation whether or not we do it as formally as I was describing with this particular team of people that was struggling to produce this series of political debates and we're been quite contentious among themselves as a result of, you know it's stressful and there's a lot to do and, and the content is inherently divisive. So are there things that we can bring into our production meeting every day that enable us to say actually though we value everyone's contribution, and we want to make sure that we're actually learning from what we're doing I think reflection is one thing that I've added to most of the teams that I work with that they were unfamiliar with, because we usually say what, get it, grab it, growl. We're done. All right, is it good. It's better than good. It's done. But then we didn't learn anything. Right. We actually need to go back and say what what you know this is I'm speaking more specifically to those of us that produce news but I mean, we can actually learn from what we were doing and people have tended to gravitate to that idea and then finally, I have had the opportunity on several occasions because some of my colleagues have reached out to me and they've said, I'm really interested in this what what exactly you know some of them say what's your mojo. Well it's not mojo actually right it's it's it's the revelation. And so I've had teams of friends who have studied reflections on the life of the spirit with me and they've gotten totally excited about this idea like truthfulness is the foundation of all human virtues. Ah, so we're really inspiring this in the workplace. And one of the funny ones that I love is these women that really love this quote oh you beloved of the Lord in this sacred dispensation conflict and contention are no wise permitted. Every aggressor deprives himself of God's grace. These happen to be black women and so they will say to one another if it looks like conflict and contention or emerging in the workplace. Stop because I don't want to cut myself off from God's I don't want to cut my blessing off. And so just the decision to kind of move forward in that way so there's you know there's many ways I think that we can think of some of them are more direct and some of them are more indirect. Nate I will direct this one to you. So this person said consultation sometimes begins with a good question. What are the qualities of a question that you might ask in your media. That's a lot of why questions. And I think, at least in terms of creating a story or a narrative. The biggest question that I asked myself, and of collaborators for working on something together is, what do they want, you know what is the main character want. What does this character want what does that character want. I'm diverging a little bit maybe from the question here but the classical definition of character in terms of like drama is really the same definition of character in terms of religion in that characters determined by all your actions like what you do right. I think that in order to, it's really important to ask the right kinds of questions when you're trying to craft a story or create a story. I'm sure this applies, you know, throughout all kinds of different mediums. But oftentimes we think about like personality as character character traits as character. And those things are important but they're not the most important you know what I mean so like you might get a real sense of character by the way they speak and by their interest and that might unlock something for you as a writer and that's great. But also knowing that in the end, people are defined by what they do, you know, and why they do it right. So when I'm looking at fundamentally like how do I unlock this story. When I'm stuck which always happens at some point, it's a lot of why questions like what do they want, why do they want it. And it's those same simple questions over and over and over until you drive yourself crazy and then hopefully you figure something out. One user anything you would add to that question. I mean, I don't think so but I think that the the questioner actually comes to a really good point because that that is it right we're not consulting for no reason. We're actually trying to come to some truth that helps us to advance whatever it is that we're doing so sometimes it's helpful I think with the team itself to help it identify its own question and one of the things that I was able to learn you know just in study of the courses of the Ruhi Training Institute is that generally speaking every complaint is actually just a question right we don't complain about things that we know how to do things that we're comfortable with. So if someone is coming and appearing to be confrontational or even whining or even you know many things that you know come up in different workplace settings. It's usually just to help them what what exactly is the question right. It's okay so we want to learn how to you know have a more respectful workplace or we want to learn how to produce this many shows rapidly without you know burning out our crew or you know I think the team of people can usually identify for themselves with their question is if it's put to them in that way this is an object of learning. It's not that we have such problems we're not defective we're not lacking in nobility. We just don't know how to do this. Once we do. It won't be a point of conflict for us because we'll be very comfortable in it but we sometimes have trouble identifying what that question is. There were two questions for me so I'll try to combine them so one was in terms of your principles of engagement. How about flipping the script using focus groups and creative meetings to promote consultative collaborative approach that builds on existing patterns wouldn't it. And the other question was what are the next steps in this process is there a way to stay in contact with efforts in the development of the paradigm being created by your service. The first one I will take that as a suggestion we haven't done that yet but that seems like a really sound approach. So yeah I don't have anything else to add to that because it's not the way that we've gone about it but that that does seem like a thoughtful thoughtful way to experiment with it. In terms of the second question. Chelsea and Penn and I have talked a lot about documenting what we learn and you know kind of in this vein of viewing the whole enterprises contributing to discourse. What we learn in the in the arena of discourse is that you are constantly documenting your knowledge and I think in the high faith in general we have this mode of learning that that we've been given you know action reflection consultation and then refining in light of that. So we as a company are really thinking about that and we're starting to document our conversations, you know what goes well what doesn't. I don't know in the end like right now that's very internal but maybe there would be an output so you know I don't I don't know how we would announce it or share it but it's something that we have thought about as we gain more experience and don't only have a premise but actually have something to show for it. I think we would be interested in sharing that with others. So like specific content, Penn, Badgley has a public sort of social media presence Chelsea and I have private accounts but his is public so he might post things once they're postable, you know once they're at a stage where we could share so you could always follow him and and see. I think that was the last of the questions. So I just wanted to thank you again Nate and Nwandi for for joining me on this roundtable it was such a pleasure to collaborate with you and thank you to everyone who watched and who submitted such thoughtful questions. Thank you as well.