 I am in beautiful Los Angeles, California and I had the honor of doing a collaboration with none other than Donna from Psych IRL and we talk about parasocial relationships and are they healthy or unhealthy? What is up everybody? This is Chris from the Rewired Soul where we talk about the problem, but focus on the solution. And if you're new to my channel, my channel is all about mental health and what I like to do is pull different topics from the YouTube community to try to teach you how to improve your mental and emotional well-being. So yeah, I had the opportunity, the pleasure of meeting the amazing, the wonderful Donna from the channel Psych IRL and so you know this is part of a collaboration so I actually did a video over on her channel as well which will be linked down in the description and in the info card and at the end screen and she had me on her channel as we discussed topics like mental health on YouTube, emotional manipulation, profiting from mental health. We even discussed the little better help situation. So make sure that you go check out the channel that we do over on Donna's channel and make sure you subscribe to her because she makes some awesome content but anyways a lot of you know that I've been really diving into parasocial relationships like the relationship between the YouTube audience as well as YouTubers and I have a lot of questions and I want to understand like why we think the way we think, why we do the things that we do you know there's so many aspects of this and I read all of your comments and like it just fascinates me so I thought it would be great to have a conversation with Donna and discuss this because she's into psychology and mental health as well so without further ado here is the conversation I had with Donna. What's up everybody it's Chris from the Rewise Soul and I am joined by Donna. Donna what's your channel and what's it about? Okay I have a channel called Psych IRL and basically I make video essays of explaining internet culture using psychology. Yeah so Donna let me tell you this funny story and I don't even know if I told you the story when we first started talking but I've been subscribed to your channel for a long time alright and I remember watching it and like it was like heavily psychology based and everything and then you started doing stuff on like YouTube culture and social media culture I'm like she's changed I'm done with this channel and like when I made the pivot on my channel yeah I was like oh wait now I know what Donna's doing so like you like we were similar but we're different like right what fascinates you about like the psychological aspect of like that culture of like YouTube culture like the topics that you choose you know like you're not talking about politics like you focus on a specific niche like why like does that intrigue you or yeah so I went to school for marketing so it's just always been an interest of mine I mean like some kids like to draw I like to examine YouTube culture but as far as change I've always wanted to speak about psychology and share that with the internet and I just couldn't find I couldn't find like a effective way to do so that people were interested in so I try to be the ASAP science of psychology with doing that whiteboard stuff didn't work out so I switch to examining internet culture yeah no that's that's interesting like I remember the whole whiteboard one yeah but yeah I wanted to bring Donna on the channel because those of you who saw I did a video no longer I think it was like titled something about hi-dubs in Tana Mojo but I'm fascinated with parasocial relationships right like the relationship between you the viewer and us the youtuber youtuber stands and so Donna over on her channel which you better don't subscribe to you did a video about like different youtubers and their fans like which youtubers did you cover again and like what did you kind of discover as you did that I covered so many up Shane Dawson for sure who else I have no sleep I'm like it's a struggle to remember so Shane Dawson Jack's films Emma Chamberlain Joanna Sedia and then PewDiePie and then a bunch of other did you cover local Paul yes local okay yes was there anything like interesting or like how did you do that research or is that something you noticed so when I make videos about other youtubers a lot of their fans come on to my videos they start commenting and I noticed like they all have a certain personality and they're usually very similar to the creator that makes the videos so that again ties in with the parasocial relationship thing when you make friends you make friends with someone who is very similar to you so that's what I'm going somewhere with dude yeah now how much do you think that has to do with something like confirmation bias like they're like they want like if you find a youtuber who is similar to you they're gonna have the same points of view as you and they're gonna agree with you on certain topics and so you think that weighs in oh yeah for sure um yeah so like I know you wanted to talk about Trisha Paytas yeah so um when I say similarities so Trisha has this very unique extravagant lifestyle that it seems like not a lot of people relate to but when she does have the ability to be vulnerable she talks about her insecurities like her insecurities with her relationship her diet and I think that aspect is what people gravitate to so they feel I guess similar to that and it's not necessarily about her extravagant lifestyle so something that I've always wondered and one of the angles that I take on my channel because like you take the psychology aspect and you're like you try to find something relatable that people do are watching already yeah and then tie it in right so I'm doing that with mental health and something that I'm always asking is do you think that you youtubers are attracting fans who are trying to justify their behaviors in real life right so it's no secret Trisha Paytas has had some stuff going on lately do you think people watch that because they look at their own life and they say oh well they do it so that excuses my behavior um that's a hard one because I do think that so you watch a clickbait video from Trisha Paytas I do think half of it is this person is interesting I'm gonna watch that and those people usually leave they say oh this is crazy person yeah yeah so I think those people leave but the people that stay I do think that I agree with your point they find validation from her you know explaining her whatever her thought process her problems and things like that yeah so with you examining you know YouTube culture and everything like that like do you think that this is healthy or unhealthy like the way I look at mental health it's just everything that we're thinking everything that we're doing it's either healthy or it's unhealthy do you think it's it's healthy to find youtubers that you relate to and model your behavior after them or if I know so like what do you think do you think that's healthy is that unhealthy like what do you okay how about this like what do you do like do what are you are you monitoring what you're watching and trying to be mindful of what you're doing in your own life yeah because okay so your question kind of is not weird but like in your scenario the viewer is kind of helpless so they're watching this video and whatever the influencer is saying they're automatically being manipulated by the influencer and like for me I think there has to be some sort of accountability for the viewer has to make their own decisions and to should I listen to everything this person says or not but I do see your point though because I know that a lot of younger viewers watch influencers and they will validate their actions from whatever the influencer says yeah so I don't know it's a hard one so some like one of the studies I found fascinating was Lindsay Lohan I mentioned this the other day one of my videos Lindsay Lohan when she was in her heyday like messing up getting DUIs and everything like that there was this awful picture taking of Lindsay Lohan maybe I'll put it up on the screen so you guys can see but she was wearing like I think it was an American apparel hoodie something like that and she just looked like really haggard DUI it was a mess right that week that exact same hoodie got sold out across the country right so when we're talking about younger audience and stuff they're not connecting the fact that the picture you saw her wearing this in is related to a very bad situation but they still went out and bought that they idolized that person so that's kind of where my question is of is it healthy or is it unhealthy maybe it'll transition to this question do you think with that kind of power of influencers that you and me alike as well as other youtubers need to be more mindful of what we're putting out there what we're showing and because I know there are youtubers who you know I guess going back to church of haters who like to be vulnerable and like to show this stuff but you think it's at the cost of maybe influencing people in the wrong way if they're not getting help or working on themselves yeah but okay so where do you think so can people like do you watch jackass or have you watched jackass so what do you think so should those those type of entertainers not do that anymore or what is the line so here's here's a unpopular opinion okay like as a father as a father I blame everything on the parents like literally I do right but here's something that jackass because I've thought about this like here's something that jackass has over just about every other youtuber yeah is that damn disclaimer that they put at the beginning of every episode know what the youtuber does that like you don't have a youtuber who's just being messy and there's something that pops up and says do not model yourself after you know what I mean yeah so I guess that's that's kind of my point of view on it but also I feel like I think the slammers are there for legal reasons like um yeah I honestly I don't think they actually I mean I do think they mean not to copy them but I also think it's there for legal reasons I don't think like a kid says oh I'm not going to try this because they see the disclaimer yeah they're not going to try it because it's stupid yeah so yeah so okay so the next question is who do you think more responsibilities should be on the youtuber and what they're putting out there or the viewer and how they're interpreting it and taking it in yeah or do you think it's like a 50-50 percentage wise I don't know like I really don't know if if the viewer is younger it has to be on the responsibility of the parents to say hey this is this is this isn't a real friendship or like you can't do this because it's just entertainment for the youtuber man this is such a hard question for me because like like my mindset is you can do almost whatever you want as long as it's within the terms of service it's like it's it's it's I don't know it's entertainment but I don't again like I don't have any kids this sin so maybe I'm seeing things from a different point of view yeah of it's like I get when things are clickbait I get when you're not supposed to do things like yeah so okay I don't know it's it's difficult for me to answer so okay so let's jump into this with the topic of Jake Paul right like you watch the nerd city video right yeah okay so nerd city went into the legalities and stuff about you know tv you can't do this yeah and you know talking about how Jake Paul is doing that on that platform they can't separate this right so when I look at that and how a child can't separate those things like one of the things that nerd city touched on was a killer clown thing right and then all these kids who really thought that happened yeah now it's debatable because youtube's kind of changing some terms of service things but like what are your thoughts on that because that's another aspect of this parasocial relationship where people are legitimately worried and even when you look at different relationships like trisha and jason they're worried and you see people taking sides right all of that so in that aspect of it does it kind of make you think about that um meaning that they should not do that or yeah yeah like they should be a little bit more mindful of what they're putting out there yeah I mean I definitely think that all influencers should be mindful of whatever because then I also think what's the difference between that and a skin like I don't know it's such a difficult thing to like I feel like I just can't tell Logan Paul to no you can't pretend like Jay Paul you can't tell you can't tell him to just say no you can't upload that type of content because it was then the big juggernauggets uh like his videos they're all scripted and like it was him it was his dad like always destroying his xbox but uh I don't know like would you tell him to not do that content or to put a disclaimer on it or like for me for me personally I would like if that was a that was my my style like that's what I would do but his youtube ultimately started off as a platform where it was just people in their bedrooms talking right and it's involved into the scene where it's like high production everything like that but children especially think it's real and something that we're seeing recently with the David Dobrik situation yeah is the line between you know a skin or a bit and reality is extremely blurred yeah yeah for sure so like I don't know like we could talk for 15 hours about this but yeah like it's it's a weird it's a weird thing because like something I mentioned in one of my other videos before coming out here is I'm trying to learn about how I can make my content better yeah and how people get defensive and stuff right so what I've noticed in my comments is oh you know it's just blown up because you know they're putting it on youtube this isn't real the but when I get youtuber backlash like why would you why would you lash out if it was just a bit then that'd be like me just commenting on the network show yeah you see what I mean so how do you think that line that line blurs and how do you think that affects the viewer so going back to the jpaul killer clown scenario yeah nothing was said that this is fake right you and me know it's fake but your audience is mainly children yeah like see for that jpaul thing I think that's where the parents have to like you have to monitor whatever your kids are watching I don't think it's possible but like for the jpaul and people clown thing that's when the parents have to step in and say this isn't real like yeah are you just really letting your kids just watch that without any supervision yeah you know yeah like that's a good example but I saw uh Avengers infinity war spoiler alert so you haven't seen it for some reason all right you've seen it right no oh Jesus but you know you know the meme right yeah okay okay like when everybody's like disappearing at the end I was there with my son and he was like freaking out like dealing all right like chill baby you know whatever but yeah like that's that's a thing and I don't know I'm trying to influence more parents to watch and you know know this stuff like I don't know that's a whole nother video that I might make just about how to monitor your kids on YouTube but one of the other things that I wanted to just dive into the last part of this is you also talk about these types of parasocial relationships with the stalking kind of yeah people showing up at James Charles house people showed up to the team 10 and this even goes back into the parent the parent aspect of it like why from your research especially looking at those things why do you think a person would think that it's okay to do that I think these days youtubers are seen as celebrities they feel like they're untouchable they're they're almost like gods um so I think the from a parent I guess I think the parents see them as that and so they deserve it almost because the audience is who is making the money I mean from from there I don't think it's right but I think that's what they're thinking and obviously the kids want to see their favorite influencers because you know they're they're they're their friends yeah so um yeah was there anybody when you were growing up was there anybody where you just really wanted to meet him this is really weird because I've always felt weird about this because like I I've never had any idols or like anyone yeah yeah like everyone asks me that and like my default answer is always like oh my mom and dad I guess yeah like I've never really looked up to anyone yeah yeah I think and I think that's the healthiest way to kind of do this it's just everybody's just a person right yeah I try to emphasize like I'm a guy who just picked up my camera and just started sharing my story and then you know just started doing some other things with it and you know the just people like I just met Donna today she's just a person you know an amazing person but but yeah it's like this larger than life type thing and like we hold them up on a pedestal and something I'm always looking at especially when we look at like modeling behaviors and all those things like is it like this bad thing where we think like oh this is a friend like the stan thing yeah you know and you look back to the m&m's song called stan like that kind of do you think there's anything that youtubers can do to prevent it do you think do you think youtubers for a lack of better words is leading people on with that personal relationship yeah um I mean personally I've never felt like I've led anyone on I mean I know that some youtubers say oh I love you and I mean we know everyone knows they don't actually love you but uh how can a youtuber like like I'm really about personable accountability and all that so I like it's hard for me to see a youtuber leading a fan on really yeah like yeah I don't I don't think so like I can't I can't fathom I had a how they would do that yeah I mean do you disagree or no no I don't know when he said personal accountability I'm like no wonder why we get along yeah because that's what I'm always telling people I'm like we need to check in with ourselves like you know even with my son like I teach my audience in some more ways I teach my son like I'm like I don't care what that person is doing this is about you right you know like you have to accept this responsibility um you know even talking about like like when we look at people like Jake Paul Logan Paul like it's important for the audience to understand these people who are making millions of dollars they can get away with that like you can't right you know yeah so I don't know let me ask you one last question one last question when you're making your content like it's essay format and all that like are you are you trying to like help people are you trying to get them to think like when I watch your videos I'm going into it like how is this gonna kind of open up my mind to some new things like what is your what is your intention when you're making a video honestly um it's just like I have a hypothesis on a certain topic um I use internet culture to maybe highlight that topic and I'm sharing that with the audience I'm not am I trying to convince them not really I'm I'm literally I'm just stating my opinion and you can take that however you want so if you disagree with me feel free to do that if you agree feel free to do that as well so yeah like I I don't feel like I'm being manipulative manipulative but I don't know like maybe subconsciously like with the clickbait I think I mean I think all YouTubers are kind of trying to be like manipulative of the argument algorithm but like I mean it's not on purpose yeah okay one more question do you ever have people in your comments get pissed because of your your title or thumbnail it's never been a major problem but I mean like maybe a couple but like yeah not not too bad yeah that's something else I'm trying to figure out what people get pissed really yeah like like something I'll notice is like I upload a video that's like 15 minutes long and I get comments within three minutes like disagreeing with me I'm like like you didn't even like like you didn't even watch it but anyways I want all of you to think about your relationship with YouTubers how it's affecting you anything that Donna and I talk about like make your comments down below and so you know Donna's links are all gonna be down below you have any exciting stuff coming out that you can tell us about exciting we're doing a video on your channel yep that's pretty exciting stuff yeah so yeah make sure you follow Donna and subscribe to her and anything else cool going on not that I can no no that's a very anticlimactic answer well if you ask me everything about Donna's cool all right thanks everybody for watching we'll see you next time dang that was a pretty sweet conversation huh and and yeah like I want to hear your thoughts your views your opinions down in the comments below like do you think your relationship with YouTubers is healthy do you think it's unhealthy talk about you know some of the topics that we discussed like you know should YouTubers take more responsibility for their influence that they're putting out there because I know through the conversation that I had with Donna like as my channel grows I have to start thinking more about what I put out there what I say because some people have a relationship with me where they take what I say you know really seriously and all of that so I want to hear your thoughts and comments down below but also do not forget I did a video over on Donna's channel Psych IRL again is going to be linked all over the place info card description pin comments as well as in the end screen so make sure you go over there and check it out because she asked me some really good questions about the state of you know YouTube as well as mental health all right but anyways that's all I got for this video if you like this video please give it a thumbs up if you're new make sure you subscribe and ring that notification bell because I make a ton of videos and a huge huge thank you to everybody supporting the channel over on Patreon you're all amazing and justice promise click right there I think it's right there there's a thumbnail which links to the video that I did over on Donna's channel make sure you go check it out all right thanks again thanks so much Donna and I'll see you next time