 You won the best documentary right at the Tacoma Film Festival. Yes, we did Very unexpected very exciting yes, and it's We were talking on the way over here Making a film is one thing and then promoting it and being on a festival circuit can just be exhausting author flew in this morning From LA and with us tonight now. We're gonna be in New Haven on the 25th back on the West Coast in San Francisco And then New York City in November 4 and again in California. So it's just it's a real ride, isn't it? It is but it's exciting. I mean, you know, we love sharing the movie that we've been making for 13 years at this point and actually Philip also just had an even longer flight Where did he fly from? I came in from Nigeria on Saturday Really great at the timing just really worked out for for us to be able to be here together It's the first time we're seeing the film together All the participants have seen the film individually and shared it with their families But this is really special because you know, we're in the same room the same space and watching it with an audience Also kind of is a very different experience So we've got one more So actually I'm curious. Did you watch the film with your family when you were home in San Diego? Yes, in my case, it's in Nigeria I watched it last week There were parts of it and it brought hot tears just the whole thing of having to reflect about the last couple of years Ways in which coming to the US being at MIT and the part of the family in such positive ways Was just a lot for her actually, you know, and so yeah, that was my own experience Was it the first time that you had been home since This since graduating from MIT? No at home When I finished I plan to just like go early. That was the original plan That hasn't really been realized but I've been going more often now This would be my fourth time since I graduated So fourth time fourth time in eight years. So every two years that's been that I've read so far and um, sorry and uh, how How do you feel that you fit in now when you return to Nigeria because you're visiting there you live here now Um, how do you feel like a visitor? Not really in Nigeria I still I still kind of just blend in to be honest You know, you come back. You still speak the language. You can still speak the Nigerian street language. So Let's say after the first two three days I'm like blending and I'm fitting us as as I see Not much has really changed But I mean there's been concrete ways in which the US has changed And so like I don't lose the methods to try to price things myself anymore because You know, I don't know how it is a well-priced and you have to have the price and whatnot and I've lost that scheme Yeah So just just a small example like on a more serious note Um, I mean there have been concrete ways that being in the US has changed the way I see and do things That's a bit different from how things are going back home And so those are ways that I those are some of the examples Yeah, it's kind of the song And Phillip, um, what are some of the tangible ways in which You're you've been able to help your family Your brothers and sisters and your mother Yeah, um, I can give a couple of examples. My immediate younger brother is here in the US right now for Swedish masters And so that's been a direct result of being here being able to work in the US and supports the family My immediate older ones are in colleges at the moment They all schooled at night one school in Nigeria the others who I'm done I'm schooling at the moment and it's all been possible because I'm here in the US I'm working I'm able to like help the family out some that way Amongst the things that our businesses that our mom does them That's quite different from what we were doing eights ten years ago. And so that doesn't just an example So my life is very encouraging for your entire family because of this experience at MIT Author I know you wanted to make a film And you made it But did this end up being a therapy for you as well as making a film? Tell your mics Hello, we're good Thank you for that. Um What's the therapy? Um I guess it was a space to maybe reflect on things I sense that I needed to Figure some things out. Um, but I maybe did not know exactly what questions to ask In some ways, for example um You know for a long time the we had the edit process took five years um, and we had multiple editors come on at different times and Kelly creedon You know finished the film and created this beautiful space where it probably all came together Um, but for a long time I saw it as a film about the four participants, right? And so Even though sometimes people would suggest that, you know, maybe you should try putting yourself in there. I couldn't really figure out why What my role in it would be? um, and so just watching in the edit realizing how The power of the vulnerability that philip and the three other participants Had given, you know watching that power Enabled me to see that the worst part in vulnerability and also You know with you know when the bill was introduced in Ghana, I realized that started me thinking about um, you know that awkwardness I feel when I when I go to Ghana It takes me a little bit longer to really find my footing and and feel at ease and it had to do with um Needing to turn away from Ghana in order to kind of Be more my myself and so, you know editing and and reacting to the world and kind of considering what philip and billy and santi and fidelis have given us in in the Filming of the and the creation of the film kind of I guess helped me realize what questions I wanted to address within myself And so I guess in some ways it was therapy or maybe a space to reflect Um on some things The scene in the car, um, I think it's fidelis that turns the camera. Uh, well not the camera, but the questions on you to me as um Watching that film There was such authenticity in that and and it was like you At that point it was like you had the opportunity to like deflect But it was like it just opened this conversation where you became the fifth participant And I thought it was really beautiful how it was edited Yeah, those moments Always, you know in the five years when I was resisting being or I couldn't see a way that I not organically belong in the film Those moments stood out, you know the conversations that we'd have across the camera and we had those comments I had those conversations with all the participants um I think when I started I really thought I would be a fly on the wall as a filmmaker And I didn't really want to disturb what they were going through just kind of like follow them and capture it But then I think as I matured as a filmmaker Um, I understood that even when you're not in the film You are in the film or you are affecting the situation and so just kind of embracing that And leading into what was organically happening in the relationships that we were building together And also accepting that it was a collaboration You know, it was all the participants filmed video diaries as well Which was initially a way, you know when we started the film I was in LA and you know, they were busy kind of adjusting to MIT and started this exciting life. So I come Here film for a few weeks crash on Stan's couch. Stan is in the back of it there Um, and um, you know the film but then when I went away, it was a way to kind of keep Um the story going and and capturing and so all the participants Um Created video diaries and those became a powerful component of the film and so In a way we were holding each other and kind of exploring this experience together It was nicely woven in many of the diary Journal excerpts Have you shown the film in Ghana? No, no not yet. Um Gamma's bill has not passed yet. So it's still possible. Um, so You know currently which is this is our fifth film festival All in the us so far And so, you know, there's like we're waiting for the international premiere Try to you know, see which festival see yes to it and then roll it out All over the continent. Um, I was hoping We would have our international premiere or at least an african premiere, um at a frif Which also showed they played nitro beta, but um, they just rejected us night And I I I think it has to do with their places. Um on the continents where there are already laws that Would make screening the film particularly with its the the queer storyline Perhaps problematic. Um, and so for a very high profile film festival, I suspect that, um There are challenges with with screening that even when there are You know, even if the program committee committee might be supportive So it might be challenging in some spaces, but we will get it seen And and for the audience that film festival that you were speaking about is where? Oh, that's in Lagos Nigeria. It's a great film festival. Um, we had a great experience And so amazing films that were being done creative on the continent everything from animation to Action to drama to period pieces. It was incredible. I highly recommend checking it out When you were making the film, uh, it took such a long period of time And also you had to do a lot of fundraising to make it happen Was there ever a point in time where you felt like it was just overwhelming and it would not be finished I I did feel overwhelmed. Um Many times, um But I knew I had to get it done. Um, because I made a commitment to philip and to santa and billy and To fidelis and their families Um, and I feel like I felt like I had to honor that and so You know when we were fundraising and then I realized just how much money Would it would be needed to kind of hire the experience editors and You know and all the professionals to kind of build the product post-production and complete it It was um, it was really overwhelming There were a couple of years where I was just kind of editing myself and I would take You know, basically save up all my vacation from work and you know, you can take unpaid time To just kind of create a new rough cut and reapply to like all the the funding sources But eventually, you know, they came through that and then once they came through They they have been incredible partners. They really helped us kind of Staff up the way this film deserved and needed to be staffed up So I'm very grateful to itbs to sundowns the sandbox fund Um, gctv. I mean so many organizations. You saw the credits and in the meantime, we had, you know, the Kickstarter and the grassroots community that that really carried this film and kept Kept encouraging us to keep going, you know, um, there are several people out here. Um, who supported the film over the 10 years Um before kind of the industry came on board. So thank you all and in pov with Um, uh The television station here, sorry. Uh, yes. Thank you pbs. Um, they only choose about 13 or 14 films They understand per year and your film has been chosen, right? That's correct. So that was um, That was an incredible, um breakthrough or Validation I guess of our stories in a way. There's also exciting because it means, you know, at least a million people will see it in the U. S. And, you know pov is a great Organization, we've been working with them for a few months now on different aspects of, you know They line up plans to engage for audience engagements to work with community partners They're they're creating a discussion guide so that schools and students and educational spaces can actually Use the film In an educational setting So, um, it they're incredible partners, but yes, they do take this year this season is 16 films 16 wonderful films. I highly recommend checking them out if you don't, you know, watch them They give you an incredible perspective off stories from all around the world the beautiful films Philip do you still stay in touch with the other, uh, the other people, uh, that were Shot in the film Yeah, we we are all still in touch with a lot very awesome except Fidelis Fidelis and I have been very close and he lives like 15 minutes away from me So That's wonderful. And are you feeling like you have created a bit more of a community here? Oh, thank you Thanks So i'm just wondering if you know, uh fidelis is 15 minutes away and you've been here now and living working Do you feel like you have like a community here now that you can feel secure and connected? Yeah, yeah, I definitely feel um, I think over time I became I felt more at home here in the u.s. Um, that didn't happen overnight though. It was like Um, a combination of different things happened. I'm married. I have a kid now We all live together out and though And so that's helped me at least, you know, having my family here Goes along. We have my brother here helps too. So what I realized for me is I think part of that discomfort was just coming from Maybe the only one in my family in the u.s. So as more and more people from my own immediate family move over It just increases my my level of comfort But so I say question directly as I have community even within the MIT community. There are friends around In Atlanta, I have people out there too that I that I know well and I can easily just like plug into Whenever I visit that's good to hear I'm wondering now that you've been able to help your family and there are so many, you know Of your siblings that are moving into college and getting out Once you achieve those goals of of helping family Do you think you'll do your thoughts of whether you'll return? Um, or will you stay? absolutely, so Sometimes this is something my friends and I still talk about I know that we'd say What I what I've always been after here in the u.s. Is access I want access to the u.s. Because I think there are opportunities here that I can't find in a lot of other places But what I want to be able to do with that access is impact the places where I grew up I might so the summary of it is I'm actually running a startup right now Is a financial tech startup? It's Going to be when we launch will be targeting Nigerians and like solving problems that people in Nigeria face When receive your money from the u.s. And so on so a lot of the things that I've been doing even post graduation from MIT Is still within that space of okay How do I use the opportunities I have here in the u.s. To improve things back home through like technology or Any other means I can yeah I want to open it up to the audience Um, and I have a question right here. Can I ask you so Why do you suppose first? It's a visa question with support. Did you go to MIT and say Can you help my mother? Get you do anything about the fact my mother's visa was denied and then why was your visa denied? Yeah, so for the first one We did write her letter to MIT, but it's one of those things where there's not much they can really do It ultimately comes down to the actual interviewer And the outcome can be quite arbitrary An example is my immediate younger brother Made it to the u.s. This year, but that was after his third trial at visa interviews and so Sometimes we we we don't really know how the decisions are made. So but so your question we did try but it didn't help As for my own visa The reason why I didn't get it was because it was a lottery process so everybody Every international student in the u.s. Gets three trials after their first degree Um, and when I say three trials, it means if you study in a STEM related field You have about three years to be able to work and within that three-year window your employer can Apply but since it's a lottery there is no guarantee So in my own case, I had three trials. My name didn't get picked in the lottery So I had to go to school to extend my stay and it's all worked out eventually I'm a permanent resident now Um, yeah, so it all worked out well After walking all that Okay, yes, I live here in mass. Um, I recently moved to low low mass um, I Worked I was at AWS. I'm a drone web services as a software engineer Um, but now I'm I'm running my own startup Yeah Yes, do we have any yes mental health Okay, so the first question is for you author how you picked the students that are featured in the film Yes, thank you for that reaction. Um We so when I I basically approached the um, MIT admissions office with the idea back in 2011 Um, and they couldn't give me names. Um, uh, so my criteria where I wanted to film with people that were coming directly from the african continent um And beyond that, um, I also wanted to make sure that uh, the participants I was working with Kind of could take the project in their stride and so if I was If anybody was, you know looking like, you know, they were having difficulty scheduling, um Request to film, you know, I Didn't want that to be a distraction. So basically the MIT admissions office Was able to forward an introductory email That I wrote describing the project who I was why I wanted to make it and then um Eight of the 12 students that have accepted MIT's admission offer that year. They were all class of 2015 Um, eight of them responded to my inquiry um, we started filming with a and um, eventually that dwindled for based on just who was um, kind of proactive and like Taking the project in the astride and felt comfortable with um, kind of The level of intimacy that the project is required Before you answer, uh, the second part of this question. Let's uh, follow up with what author just said What was it like? What did you think when you were being contacted by a filmmaker here? You are you're not even in the states yet, right? And you're you're trying to figure out how you're gonna fit in at MIT and start studying was this weird Um, to be honest, it was something I really Embraced from the beginning and the reason being that Getting into MIT to me just Felt so amazing Felt like a miraculous experience as I described it That like I really wanted to share that story with other people who were either from my own background Or grew up in places that I grew up in so When Arthur reached out it all just felt to me like part of this whole massive thing positive thing that's happening to me and Yeah, the timing the timing felt good. So I jumped on it And the the last question was asked Uh, you had had some depression in the film that you and she was asking your mental health now is Is it good? Yeah, I'm I'm definitely in a good place. I'm happy um to be honest Even though I mean in the in the film it talks about all these different things that I had experienced My my experience at MIT was quite positive too I'd always looked at things from this lens of Or let me put it this way that I've always been an optimist And so even though I had this sort of rough patches where things weren't going to come into plan It always felt to me like a massive improvement from where I had been before and so From then even through the time when I didn't get the Visa through the lottery I was able to go to school Get my masters get a job get my Green card sponsored and that's what yeah, um, I'm grateful Yes in the back Oh, I'm sorry. No, I'll repeat your uh, okay, sorry The story lines played out and probably repeated across multiple people is there thoughts around any thoughts around I can The support group or a way to tell the story and provide support for those that went through it now in a way that Reliance from all the stories that um So that's something I would I would love for campuses to have screenings You know as part of Since finishing the film and kind of applying to festivals I've also been encouraged to look at like kind of maybe defining Within whatever scope we can we can handle an impact campaign And so I've been trying to figure out Basically reaching out to organizations that work in that international student space And trying to build relationships share the film with them to see if It's something they might want to You know use in their work So yeah, there is some interest and we we develop we're trying to figure out what that looks like But then even outside of that You know like if you look at the Our social media pages are following like as many african students associations and black students unions That we can find um, and we're hoping that they kind of Kind of hopefully they connect with the film they get to see at some point Maybe during the pbs broadcast holder. I don't I don't know if students Current students actually watch in pbs So I think we might actually have to bring the film to them somehow But it would be great to have my dream is to really have In 2024 next year at least in the u.s um at campus tour where On every campus the african students association the black students union the lgbt rights Group or the lgbt community group If there's a women's group or like a women's studies department My gender studies department could kind of co-host A screening and then you know use use the screening as a platform to Like reflect on on on people's experiences Yes, but there are limits to what we can do because as an independent filmmaker we really and and you know The participants we really push It felt like a Sissive vision is that what the word is you know task you just like pull like pushing this um giant boulder at the mountain and it's Exciting to finally have the film kind of a great to find partners to kind of help um make use of it and and create the impacts that it could have in the world So please tell people maybe that's a good point to actually say that um You know we've kind of this film has been Um Supported by a community grassroots community. So I have a newsletter You know, it's pretty low traffic except maybe this time Maybe I send an email once every two weeks because we're in like the festival circuits and like things are happening Um, so there's a sign the few sign-up sheets if you want to join the community, please drop your email It's all in my care and I send updates occasionally But you can be part of the impact the work that the film is doing and then you know We have a website briefs and the like film.com Social media here on on that as well. Um, tell people about it. Please the sign-up sheets are in the lobby On clipboards. So oh, yes. I'm sorry right here. Yep. Thank you Certainly, thank you for the commendable film and I wondered You gave us some sociological Antisemitism Expectations of parents, etc Of the students who chose legal antecedents the british laws with respect to homosexuality, etc, etc What we got nothing off the High schools and their advantageous schools the academic Antisemitism we we had that it's a miracle to enter MIT Well, what enabled Was there something we think of our students lexing to high school as you know, they are coming from exceptional background academic backgrounds So could you comment a bit on that? I do not get it from the film So in case people couldn't hear because I don't think this mic is working great um, he's wondering what the experiences were like in the high schools in africa, um, because Author didn't cover that piece Great question. Thank you for writing that out and asking about that. Um, I guess one thing I will say is We covered a lot in one film and so and I mean we shot a lot also. I mean Philip and his brother shot footage in his school because you know, whenever you go back Um To your home country or like you visit school people excited to hear about your experiences So with every participant we went back to their schools this footage of that and there were versions of the film where you got to see them interact with um with students, uh, or high schoolers in there in the old high schools and you know that Maybe would have given some context but we We had to kind of hold in and kind of pick our lane and what we wanted to handle in this film um And at some point I feel I felt like maybe there is another film to be made maybe a similar study where you're following Young you know teenagers in high schools in in in different countries in africa As they're deciding where they want to go for for college if they want to go, you know, maybe some go um to colleges on the continents and some go abroad um For example, like, you know, the african leadership university. It was really exciting To learn about it. There are other universities that are doing really interesting things Um, so anyway, I I don't know if I can really answer your question Concisely about You know What happened within the high school years? Maybe maybe philip can comment and actually he does have a line a little bit about Getting access to a scholarship, right? Yeah, and philip as you talk about this. I'm wondering like Where did mit come in to your mind? What how was it even introduced as a possibility? Yeah, so I'll try to summarize it quickly um I would say I came to mit with a pretty like solid STEM background math physics for the mathematics And the reason for that was I went to a very very good high school in northern Nigeria on scholarship Um, and so at that high school we're exposed to there's this subject called for the mathematics So typically the students would take for the mathematics and excel in it Will pretty much have kind of like AP level Exposure to like calculus and whatnot So but um the story of how I finished mit rather how I finished high school in Nigeria and then ended up in the us um happen because I was part of a program at the u.s. Embassy in Nigeria um specifically every year They offer like 15 slots to students within the country within the northern part of the country and then under 15 slots to produce students from the southern part Give them the opportunity to take SATs and those who excel in that get to apply to american schools And um if you apply to american school you get Admitted and you have enough funding. They will cover the cost of bringing you over So that's the program I got into in the u.s. After um in Nigeria after I graduated high school Um, there's a long story there about how I got into the program. I heard about it, but the summary of it was that um I had taken High school was good. I'd taken my final exams the year early. The results were really good That's what made me qualify for the Program at the u.s. Embassy And then when I got into the program, I was part of 15 students And we went through the whole process of studying for the SATs and whatnot before applying to schools in america It was in that program that I actually heard about MIT for the first time Yes, but prior to that program, we would hear about Harvard oxford other oncologies, but not necessarily MIT and so um, it turned out that my Background was solid enough my grades were excellent and everything and so I was encouraged to apply Arthur, did you have a similar experience in Canada? um Some similarities, but um some differences as well um, so I would say I learned about MIT because um, there were schoolmates that have gone to MIT and kind of had Sends the word back That this is how you There's an opportunity here. You know, you write there's an exam called the SAT And you can write it and you can you know, we couldn't afford the the cost of the SATs But then we learned that you could do waivers you could apply for waivers And Yeah, so people had kind of paved the path and sends information back But the US embassy did have a service you had to pay a fee to subscribe Basically, there's like a library where you got the The school run the college rankings from the us news and world report. So there's a book and then there were books on Um, you know how to apply to college, you know the samples of essays that were good, you know show don't tell You know all of that and uh, there was a service that basically You know, you you'd get time in the library to research what schools might be interesting to you You would come up with a like a top 50 list And then you'd have a meeting a 30 minute meeting or so with a guidance counselor type person within the us It's called us is did you have US information services or something like that something slightly different name, but Yeah, something. Yeah. So it's like a high school guidance counseling service, I imagine here and In that meeting, um, I remember them basically telling me that Oh, so you also have to Fill out a form about how much, um financial support your family could provide So they look at the numbers and they said well You can't afford any of the 50 colleges you've listed You know the arts and all that stuff But you're transferred to exceptional So you should look at, you know, like the top tier universities because they have scholarships for instance. They have, um Financially for international students because most of the other, you know, american colleges might have financially for americans But not for internationals. So it's the harvests the mit's. Um, and so I ended up applying to like 10 like ivy league schools and MIT It's interesting process 50. That's huge Yes, right in the middle here. Yeah. Thank you so much. This was amazing. Um, unbelievable Like I have to save my family. I have to save my village. I have to save my country When I went to college I only thought about myself. I wasn't saved And uh so It was fascinating to see how you work that journey and how you Tried to make peace along the way with the changing decisions. And you know, it's a very complicated thing And I look at you two and you have Kind of honored that journey you built relationships here And through your work and the relationships here you've been able to impact not only life here You're making life better here by showing us this film for one thing. But I think also to your home countries and my small city of maldon, which is Three towns away. We're almost 50% foreign born. We're hyper diverse 60 languages are spoken at our high school And we're probably what the us is going to look like In the future And I feel like there's a lot of mixing between the school kids because they're all at school together But I'm not sure there's much With the adults. So it's like all these different groups, right Coexisting peacefully and everything But I feel like What if we could do a much better job Relationship building and community building because these are like my neighbors. They live down the street And I think about all the problems we have in america and all the problems we have in all these other countries We have thousands of Haitians that live in maldon Why do we send an NGO? That thinks they're going to go fix Haiti They don't even talk to the people and they build stuff and leave and it's like wait, what if we could Partner here. I don't know. I just be curious to know. I'm sure you guys probably thought a lot about that But I'm wondering how can you do that? So I just want to um make a comment. Um ourselves We were just having a conversation last night and It's actually very It's hubris to think that we can go into other countries and make decisions. We uh white people uh that um Do not know other cultures and we don't know what what other cultures and countries need and do you Do you echo that and do you think about that idea of like How changes can be made in your countries? Do you feel like that's partly why That the weight was so heavy on your shoulders when you came over to Get the experience the leadership the the knowledge the skills to go back because you in effect could make the differences in your own country These are big questions. Um I don't know. I guess the only thing I will say because I I didn't know if I can really answer those questions but I will say that Maybe we get rid of borders um because There's a part of me that sees, you know, like these borders that we have countries and This moment, you know with the the visa the visa thing um Some people are let in and some are not and you know the the parameters are very It could be look could be seen as exploitative. Um in some ways And I feel like historically this has been a siphoning of resources from one place to another And then, you know, that place gets very wealthy and then sets up borders and sets up A barriers to entry for setting kinds of people that are deemed acceptable um And so there's a part of me that wonders about Like trying to fill A basket with water when there are all these holes that we maintain So anyway, that's that's the comment. I will make it may be something to consider Phil, did you want to come in on there or you don't want to go? Yeah Yeah, I don't really have much to add other than to say I'm just trying to just take through your own question of What's the motivation to want to? impact people back home is I don't necessarily see it from the lens of all Foreigners are coming into Nigeria and are causing more problems than They're solving I see it more as It's great that we have people with the right kind of like intention to want to Do good Maybe the process needs to be better um The process needs to be better in multiple different ways. I don't necessarily have the answers to all of it But I know that from my own personal experience of being in the u.s Even because I've been away for two talks since 2011 I've spent most of my time in the u.s If I wanted to go back to Nigeria to do anything I typically have to involve the people who have been on ground for that period because a lot of things have changed so Look at it from that angle. I would say if Folks who do projects abroad were to involve folks with local context a bit more maybe outcomes will be better um But for my own motivation my motivation is a bit different It comes more from my own kind of like lived experiences in Nigeria growing up in that environment seeing the things that Went wrong that are very very clear to me that if I could do something slightly different Where that experience of wanting to do something slightly different comes from being in the u.s And seeing the better ways things are done um I thought was there multiple times when I listened to a lot of calls of my undergrad I did go home to try to teach And then I went right back after my bachelor's degree as well to do the same thing And I have friends who are doing the same across different schools where the goal is to say, okay We might not be able to do much Today, but what if we teach people what if we impact knowledge? Maybe one or two things you say might inspire someone to change their path or do things that we saw. Yeah Um, yeah, I'm not sure to answer that question, but I think we can never um Think that uh The smallest of things uh are very important. We can never Never forget that We have time for a few more questions. Do we have anyone? Yes Could everybody here? Okay. Um, that's cleo who designed the beautiful poster and our graphics. So very beautiful Yeah, it's been exciting to kind of see people react to the film. Um, we were just in Um, in Newport Beach, California, we're the California premiere and you know, there were People if somebody said they were crying throughout the the movie, um And you know a lot of um times that here, you know, this is Better than I expected because I've never seen our story kind of up on the screen and This resonates so much Um That was a doctor here earlier. I think he left um who heard Our interview and wbr v u r and decided, you know to take a nap and then come to the to this pretty because You know because like wait, this is my story. I want to actually want to see how they they um, you know, how it turns out um, so there's been the african You know students of former students. Um uh that have seen it that have really Said, you know, it's very authentic and it speaks to to them um, but there's also the comments that I've had from Americans who maybe You know, it's not the primary experience. Um, but you know, this idea of we see international students all the time But we never really get to know them and this is giving us a window To get closer to them. So there's you know, there's been some great conversations we've had. Uh, there was actually um A schoolmate from Ghana who also did that journey of, you know, coming to study and um, He saw it at the Tacoma film festival. He came out to see it And after that, you know, we talked about so many things, but one of the stories that stuck with me was you know, he's a straight, um, man and He really related to the discomfort about, you know, he can't be here his full self in the u.s. He needs to, you know, kind of Make himself not threatening to people. Um He can't express himself in ways that are, you know, anyway, he can't speak him His full self when he gets on the plane. He gets to Ghana It feels like a way, um Is released of his shoulders, right? And so he can be as loud as he wants He could be as joyful and express himself and He said he never imagined that for me in some ways it's the opposite as a gay Ghanaian You know, I get I get on a plane and I go back to the closet a little bit or a lot in some ways, you know, there's um You know, so he he he brought that up and he was like, you know, like In some ways the tables are kind of switched in that and he never thought of that So anyway, we thought we had a long conversation about a lot of things, but that was one of them So it's really kind of resonating with people which is, um really ratifying a big honor across genders, um, uh and Ethnicities, I mean, I know when I saw this film. I have a lot, you know, I have a number of friends that are people of color And uh, I have to say like with Marcel when I went to college I was just thinking about myself and what am I going to do? What's going to make me happy and I didn't have that weight on my shoulders and I found when I was watching All all the three times that I've watched this film It's like it impacts me tremendously because I thought I understood what it was like For people to come over to this country and study from the african continent But I didn't get it at all and you captured you really captured it so beautifully and Sharing, you know, these experiences fill up. I mean it just it helps us all to better understand one another And it's this really the name of the game Do we have oh we've got a couple more. Okay. Um The lady in the back such a beautiful film I love so many things about it, but one thing I particularly loved was the thematic thread of how Some of the most important and transformative aspects of an m. I see education or not the equations and for the technical you know aspects and and you talked about liking but for loving their writing classes and And so I wondered what you was how how you would say the writing short stories informs The making of this film. I mean, is it the same process? Is it This thing is it, you know, how are those part of the same Aren't they ever free Thank you. Helen. This is Helen. Elaine Lee incredible writer and incredible teacher. She's my mentor. Um, I took fiction writing with her and and One of the lines that um has always stayed with me that I learned from Helen is Make sure that your writing is grounded in the concrete um And so, you know, like make sure it's it's got the human experience in there. Um, And she's got an incredible new book. That's doing amazing. Check out pomegranate. Um Thank you. Helen for supporting through all these years as well. Um, she helped kind of open doors at mit as well um But to answer your question um, I think the similarities might be in editing a sequence um You know short story. I feel like you know when I wrote short stories. I haven't it's in a short story in a while um There was always this kind of Moment of inspiration and back at mit would happen when I have I had an exam the next day And then you're studying 11 p.m. And all of a sudden you get like you get possessed by this idea of this like breakthrough Then you have to write So rather than studying for your, you know, like physics final, whatever you write a short story for helens glass Thank you, Helen. Um, so I feel like um, the sequences, you know, like the movements in um in The film Are kind of like that because you kind of build um a beginning middle and end but then kind of a chapter And then you build the next one and then later you figure out how they might um go from one to the next Um, so there are similarities there. I would say obviously like the revision, you know, you go back and revise. Um All the time That's what I can think of right now One more. Okay Well two more. Okay, right here um, I thank you for making this film I um, I'm incredibly moved I feel the The stories of the people that Philip and the others I am in awe of Your character and I feel like I would want to learn from And there's so much beauty and sort of the integrity and The pressure you felt and the different cycles in the mood swings and things that they went through and persevered and And yet in my opinion Yeah, you all are leaders and so much So many young people could learn from you. I mean We don't have so much. I mean depends on what families you're coming from that is The hardship that some people face is very little, you know, and and so maybe the character isn't deepened But perhaps we can learn from each other and um In any case, I guess my question or I'm wondering if if you can take it to high schools and have discussion I think That would be so valuable and um, and it can sort of turn the tables to You know, what what can we learn from you? But thank you so much for this Thank you so much. Um, we are looking at educational just we talking to a couple of educational distributors Um, so they have the infrastructure to take it to public libraries to make it easily licenced both to high schools and colleges and all that And then, you know, we'll set up the infrastructure for you know, somebody If an entity or a school wants to have a screening and then, you know, bring Philip or Fidelis or Santé or myself or somebody else affiliated with the The film to like speak or be part of the conversation, you know, we'll have that as a possibility as well Perfect. Okay. You're yeah, I just like to say A couple things to Arthur. Thank you for your perseverance. Um, you know, obviously it was a long Film and in going that I mean you that's a long road to to go on that and to each of the people participating so and you you really have a powerful film with just many different layers and it was just very fascinating to see all the things going on and the processing of things and Just I mean and some of the metaphors Struck like the like time marches on and you see the the river and where they being led and the golden cuffs like just but just but and then being alone in such personal moments in their rooms like It's just it's an extremely powerful film along a lot of different layers I know you talked about the writing I was going to ask one question Maxwell's equations differential form or inner form. No, I'm just kidding Now what I was going to ask is um on just expectations like you set out maybe I don't know like how like when you look back How is the film different looking at it now that maybe when you were thinking about it when you started? Thank you for this this comment. Um, I'd like to actually also point out that You know while, you know, I was patient and I persevered but philip santae Billy fidelis all to persevere. I mean It was at least eight years of like filming of me Asking for their time and them giving and them actually filming and then their families participating and supporting And then also their patience with kind of the post-production process because I've come back and bother them for x y and z When they were busy living, you know starting companies and starting families and all that um, and there was always um And mutual respect and the and the and the um And the grace, you know, so um Thank you for giving the world basically, um, this beautiful thing um And the new question was before and after like oh before and after actually when you see it now Yeah I think this was the film I was chasing from the very beginning because when um, kelly creedon You know the the editor that recut it and Basically accomplished this version um when she started working on it in march 2022 last year um I gave her my latest my proposal at that time so basically an outline of what I thought the film the story was And then I also found the very first outline that I I Created back in 2011 And I sent them to her and she read them and she was like, oh, it's great to see that, you know Your vision has stayed consistent, you know, like the some of the details You know obviously because the the story was clarified after we filmed it Um, but in terms of what I was chasing this is the film and so once we got this version In my guts, I knew we had we had realized what I knew the potential of the story it could be Well, I want to end this evening by saying um that alberto and I we travel and when we travel we um When we leave wherever we are We kind of are sad because we're leaving a little piece of ourselves. It feels a little bit like home And I just hope I see the hearts of both of you you guys are wonderful And I think that you know, we are blessed by you Having chosen the us as your home and we are your neighbors And I think that we're the lucky ones. So I hope I feel As welcome as I would like you to feel And that is wholeheartedly. So thank you and the best of luck Thank you April and alberto and the arlington international film festival For creating this space for honoring this film convening this wonderful audience To to give us a chance to share with you and for supporting our work Since 2016 night to beta Up up up until this moment. It feels like a family. So thank you so much Thank you You