 Hello everybody and welcome back to part two the unexpected sequel of the rain and hell Q&A Very happy to be back with you all today earlier today. We had a little bit of a Challenge with some of the chat that should be handled now this time around So hopefully none of that nonsense But I want to make sure that we had a chance to answer everybody's questions Didn't really get a chance to finish out all the the questions last this morning So or this afternoon, so I thought hey why not have another little talk Besides I was just editing videos, and I was getting super tedious, and I would much rather go talk to all of you So at any rate Yeah, all the let's talk about the basic information as before for those of you not familiar Rain and hell just launched today Available now not a Kickstarter not a thing like that you can get this game in your hands this minute It is a fast brutal miniatures agnostic skirmish wargame It is 64 pages contains everything you need for both Standard play and campaign play right in here. You can get the PDF alone for ten dollars the PDF plus the book for 15 All the links are in the description to go check all that out as well as a link to the website where Or toe to the rain and hell website, which is what you see right over here on the screen right now And so If you've got Any questions about this about the process about how we got here about anything in there the rules whatever you want You can go ahead and ask those right now. That's the idea All right Okay Crazy or said I'm starting to think Tom isn't the real reason the shows don't start on time. I promise you it's Tom This time it was just me getting stuff ready Yes, there is slow mode on this time on the comments, but it's only once a second That's just to stop bots like it's the most minimal slow mode. You can still pose all your questions regularly It's just you can't it won't let anything post more than once per second Which only bots would be able to do anyways unless you're like the fastest typer in the west Uh, okay Uh, let's see Yeah, so people ask like where are the demons or somebody asked, you know, where are the demons you are from? So, yeah, so it's 3d printed archvillain is one Uh adam mentioned some of the other ones earlier some of that stuff in there is creature caster um, there's even a few like Mantic demons in there and stuff like that. So just kind of all around lots of 3d prints. It's a it's a rich source of uh Of where to get this Crazy horse says uh question Why was I not contacted to consult on terrain? It's a good question in all seriousness. Congrats. This looks really cool. Well, thank you. I appreciate it Uh, so bishops says I had one question if memory serves the max war band is 10 dudes But what was the average size of war band? Uh, you guys took while testing. So, I mean, we did test it separate at different sizes Uh, but you know up to then including the 10 but most of the most the testing was done around You know seven eight nine so kind of early doors in other words like what you would have After assumingly one two three four games, right? Because it would take you a while to build up the souls to recruit that many additional demons to hit your max um But you know, we did play at all sizes uh But I think I didn't really notice a difference because Uh, you know, it's most of the time you're going to be like if you have one or two more demons It can make a difference tactically of course because you have more pieces under your control to move around, right? Which gives you more versatility But it doesn't necessarily equate to a direct advantage in the nature of the objectives because the way you sort of take And hold in a lot of these things um So I didn't we didn't see that it came out hugely different even when there was deltas during testing if that makes sense Uh Okay, so why why zed says haven't had a look at the rules yet What's the elevator pitch for a mechanical hook that will make me want to play this instead of frost grave or something? It's a great question. Why why zed? Yeah, what's the differentiator, right? It's yeah, absolutely What sets this apart? and Part of the reason that we made this game Is from a mechanical level because I mean I can talk about story, but every game has their own story and theme So I understand your question, right? You're saying what's the mechanical thing? I think that the dynamic activation system that's in there allows for a more tactical adaptive style on the the gameplay uh, the activation system is very unique and Has the ability to be both random but in a transparent way That sets up known Runs and series of advantages and disadvantages throughout the turn That has you needing to think ahead plan ahead to achieve success Uh at the same time I would say that there's also a great mechanical hook in the fact that the Core mechanics I mean there are three stats your creatures have move life and combat and that drives everything And yet there's a richness to it. So it's a very simple set of mechanics That we use to sort of base everything off to part of what I did when I started was how much can we just grind everything down and work from the simplest possible platform, right? Um, how much can we we really like reduce what's necessary here to the absolute minimum So it's a very quick and easy to learn and then use the exceptions of the design throughout the process To enable people to make smart interesting decisions during the game That lead to the difference in victory, right where skill will make the difference rather than what's sitting necessarily on Uh, the rules layer. I suppose So It I tried to like this is way overstated. I mean, I'm not saying I wrote this But my goal in writing the rules was an Othello like sort of system, right? Uh, uh a minute to learn a lifetime to master a kind of concept Uh, so that was really my goal with the rules And then at the same time having a unique activation system to then facilitate this very Play counterplay think ahead tactical play So there you go. That would be my mechanical hook. That was probably a long answer, but I wanted to get into it for you Uh Darius can you talk about some of the demonic philosophies? Uh, sure. Yeah, absolutely. So there are six philosophies in the game And each one, uh To me needed to represent something that I thought would be Like that had philosophical roots in something I thought beings could logically believe If that makes sense like I my major was philosophy in college Uh, I like philosophy. That's what my degree is partially in and I Think that philosophy is just really interesting and and you know, like when you get to the root of Why do people believe things? I find that to be a fascinating concept And so when I thought about each of these it had to be somewhere where okay, I'm a demon And I have some kind of set of experiences and I live in this world that I live in this dimension What are the things that I would naturally believe? Or that I could come to believe I suppose and so the lords of hell for example are Effectively, they're a sort of restorative party and you see this a lot. They want to go back To when things were good Um, you know, that's a very sort of real world human concept And I mean all philosophies are all this is somewhat rooted in humans Obviously, I have no idea what some other worldly entity would think like so I have to write these like humans And you know hell used to be this pretty orderly place. I mean it was awful and terrible, of course But it was at least ordered and there was a power structure and a hierarchy to it And that's what they want to return to right they want that social order to return As opposed to the chaos And so again that felt very believable the earth bound on the other hand are those who Have looked at this and said, you know, that this is way too much work What we need to do is instead get out of here and get to where we should have been all the time the souls were Are over on earth That's where all the the juice is what are we wasting our time for here? Let's let's take the fight over there, right? So again, just why why waste time? Let's get to the solution right we can sort of technology our way out of this problem. Yeah The technology being open the portal somehow Like there's a bit of in the earthbound's mind. There's a bit of like step one collect souls step two Step three profit, right? They they kind of have a bit of an underpants realms philosophy Uh, the demented are people who are just kind of anarchists, right? They've They like the chaos They see it as like because they You know, we're all maybe they were on the bottom in the old structure Uh in hell or maybe they just enjoy The suffering and the and the chaos mean they are demons after all it wouldn't be that hard to imagine um so to them it's You know, this is the ideal state and they see no reason to change it like no, no, this is how it should be We've we finally got here Status quo is good Uh, the brokers are people who profit off of war, right? I mean, that's just one of the oldest things in humanity I mentioned earlier like in mad max the sort of leaders of the three towns in the fury road that is to say like One of them has water one has bullets and one has gasoline, right? And so like the they're they're war profiteers Like it's the it's the sort of easiest concept to imagine because there's you know, lots of stories of that in the real world Um, the judges are an interesting one because they're sort of exploiting of the metaphysical rules of hell You know, there are things like demons self actualize and hell is guided by these different rules and sort of how things run It is an alternate dimension And so they're effectively the scientists of their worlds, right at the same time as they're the lawmakers because they're trying to exploit these sort of um The rules of the road the rules of the of the the world they live in for power So they're kind of a scientist analog only in the fact that there's no science in the world So instead they're using like the metaphysical laws of hell to do that And then finally the empty the empty are like the ultimate nihilists Because the empty don't believe that anything should exist anymore. Like this is a failed experiment. Hell has failed So the only proper solution is Blow it all up Like end everything they seek after oblivion right So that's kind of where they're going with it Uh, so yeah, that's the six philosophies I hope you all find that interesting and and you know, each of those grants their own bonuses Mechanical and such in the game and opens up different possibilities comes at their own devout all that kind of thing So the the cabals end up feeling very different Depending on which one you you play Okay Let's see Sean says Uh, oh, no, sorry. Hold on didn't get I need to back up a little bit. Okay These are great. Keep the questions coming if you've got any questions Go ahead and please bring those on Alan Thomas said how much did planescape and vampire the masquerade influence the flavor love the sort of clan faction philosophy style also needed Yeah, I mean both of those were certainly You know thoughts like previous games. I have enjoyed I don't know that anything about what they specifically have influenced me in any great way By that what I mean is I don't know that you know with You know with this I was seeking to emulate any great fashion Anything that they did other than the concept that having a tribe For your avatar in the game Lends a why and a why motivates you to be attached to it. I guess You know, so that was kind of like I I liked what Functionally those things did in those games as well as others by the way, it's certainly not the only one um, you could say like battle tech and Whether you're a member of like the clan or the houses in the inner sphere or a mercenary company, right? There was lots of identities You could belong to and those had a huge effect on you know Kind of your loyalties and what you saw in your philosophies and things like that So it's kind of all of that all those games I love the games. I really love let you see it yourself in the world And by the way, this is becoming more and more thing Current edition d&d and like the forgotten realms focuses very heavily on you being a member of some kind of faction Right because again, it's going to inform you give you contacts give you motivation and so on and so forth Uh, okay Sean says are you planning on expanding rain and hell and if yes, what is the directions you are excited to expand in I mean, we've talked about the possibility of doing like a little solo play pdf just to put out there that would be free It wouldn't be something we charge for So the people so we can facilitate that I mean, I have ideas is what i'll say for for what it could happen But I don't know if I would do that We would do that anytime soon is my honest answer like I don't want to get everyone's hopes up What adam and I have said to each other is we love making games together. This was tremendous fun It's a great partnership. I absolutely loved working with adam uh, and so You know, he's like just a really really fantastic partner and frankly what I think I've missed my whole life and in creating these And so we know we want to make more games, but I don't know that I want to just sit here and expand this one game We have lots of ideas for games that could feel very different So I guess, you know, the question would be to all of you We are you are you all interested in throwing the chat or if you're watching this later in the comments Are you all interested in seeing us explore other concepts other games other mechanical derivations and stuff like that, you know In the future, would you like to see would you support us if we make other hopefully high quality games that are You know completely different settings and stuff like that. We there's I think there's so much to explore There's so many corners of the miniature world that aren't heavily Mapped out that I think we could really do some fun stuff with um So that's that's where I'd like to go But I mean that being said I've I've got some fun ideas for expansions of this if we get the chance Uh, okay So let's see, uh Bishop says I'm excited for the potential of more scenarios that are solo play than just the one in the core book I couldn't convince anybody a D&D group to play any war games. Sure. Yeah, I understand Like I said, that's why I want to kind of have a solo play thing If we did it the idea would actually be I would create a solo AI For the monsters to play or sorry for your For you to play as the enemy and then the idea would be you could You know, you could play any of the scenarios right and you turn everything on Uh, Robert Fanels and Vince why are equal combat ratings a three plus and not a four plus That coupled with the sixes to defend seems like it was designed to make the game be quick. Was that the goal? It's a great question So what he's referring to there is in this game if your your combat score determines both your bonus to hit and the number of dice you roll to deal damage And so if your combat score is seven for example and your enemy's combat score is seven then you roll seven dice and every three Is a is a point of damage So the question becomes why do you why did we put it on threes and not fours? So there was quickness wasn't actually the goal although it is a nice Side benefit The goal was actually to tilt the game toward offense And that really is derivative of sort of the original guiding principle when I thought about what this game was You know, this is a game is very metal. It's demons. It's hell. It's brutal Like these are one of the things we actually started with is sort of like a word cloud Right this kind of thoughts of like what is this thing? And I and then that those derived into sort of guiding principles that had to Set up all the right every rule you write has to inform back up to those guiding principles And when we uh, when we Wrote that I said that one of the reasons I made that mathematical move Was because it does just tilt towards offense right um And it let me play with numbers and statistically it makes a huge difference in how much damage the average thing deals when you go 234 as opposed to 345 There's also a much more. It's also makes the game more. Hmm. I don't want to say this more fun I guess Because there's less chances that you roll against somebody and go oh Okay, I guess like one damage right like you always are sort of getting the reward of You know, oh I dealt damage. I did something right now at the same time the defense is always there But because it's only on sixes you bring a different psychological anchoring expectation to the role So like if you roll your defense dice and get one or zero, you're like, yeah, okay Sure, that's kind of what I expected. It's not out of the box It's it's fine. If you roll your defense dice and get like two sixes, you're like, wow, that was an amazing role, right? So it sort of changes where those moments of surprise and positive Uh, psychological utility come from in the experience during the game when you move the numbers around like that And it leads to a more fun experience It also as I said, you know on a side way leads to a more offensive focus combat heavy Faster experience. Yes But that also means that you have to be You know smart with your pieces because you can lose them easily right like games where You can you just hit on anything and nothing, you know, it's just like or sorry Well, you can't hit on anything and all of that like people could just run out be open and who cares because they're not going to die, right? So there you go Uh Okay Mini hobby therapy yay bonus q&a. All right. Uh, what was the biggest challenge in developing rain and hell run into any major hurdles? Uh, not really. I I mean, no honestly like it takes a while to make a book It's a really intense thing Because you write a lot more than you end up using and you have to write a lot as it is I don't know how many Words I ended up writing for this but keep in mind you write the whole book multiple times Right because you develop the initial thing and then Then you write out concepts for everything in the book like, you know, okay. Well What do we want demons to do? What do they look like? Okay. What are the categories? All right, so we sketch ideas and Adam and I would go back and forth and I start writing stuff up and then we Change that and go that and then you know, there's a lot of like back and forth and rewriting and before you ever then Okay, now we'll write the real thing Great. Now we've got something to play with. Okay, so we test that all right. How's that look? What do we need to change? We rewrite that again It's really just the major hurdle is time because I was still doing all the channel I mean you've seen I haven't like not done videos for a while You know, I still do all my videos and and everything like that And I mean I still work like 50 hours a week. So it's uh, so time has been the major challenge Being able to write it. So I think that's probably the biggest hurdle um But it was actually a lot of fun. Like I really really like writing Games and writing a rule. So I didn't in any way find it owners. I just you know, some some uh shorter nights of sleep, I guess Uh, what are those big ministers from particularly that big red devil if you mean the one with the wings That's archvillain games if you mean this guy who's on screen right now Uh, that guy is a 3d print from uh lord of the print. I believe is where he's from Impending duff. Hey Vince, congrats on the game release. Oh, thanks. Absolutely. Very glad Uh night kids. Good evening. How you doing night kids? Uh, okay Uh, Jeffrey, congratulations to the game release. Thank you Uh Tune says I just put my question in the comments part one, which is fine. I will still answer everything up there too I just thought since that last one we got ended by a horrible bot issue that just would not go away It was the worst bot thing I've ever seen in the history of youtube happened earlier today. So I've never seen such a thing before and um, it turns out that the auto hide inappropriate comments by Is turned off by default in streaming. I've never run into it or needed it. I guess Maybe they just changed the the switch recently, but it's turned on now So, I mean this the bot was like it was really horrible So it just ruined the stream at the end and so I wanted to do this for all of you because I want to make sure if people have questions, you know, that's like Well, I'd buy the game, but I don't know something or you know, hey, I just bought it and I've got this question I want to make sure we get them answered. I want to help people out. So there you go Uh, Jeffrey Crowder, are there any plans to do a playthrough video? Yes, indeed Adam will be putting something up on his channel this weekend with sort of a sample playthrough So you can see the basic mechanics in action and then he's going to do some bat reps in the future I know maybe dug from 2 plus tough and mentioned doing a bat rep as well. So there you go Tactic a cat any ideas for non-demon faction philosophies in the future? Perhaps angels or some other metaphysical groups. Um, yeah, maybe not in the exact way you think, but yes Very much so like I do have a thought on where we could go to expand this and I'm really excited about it Anyway, I think it would be Really really fun and yes, it would open up the the Uh, it would open up the field of play considerably. So Uh, but that's for the future and we'll see what happens Uh Okay, people saying yes, they would be into other things. So that's cool Uh Yes, why why is that says I've also seen rose waters 20 years of mtg talk letting people find a drive in the game is hugely important Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I mean absolutely that that talk is like a Game designer's bible like if you have any interest in writing any kind of rules You should go watch that video that's mark rose waters 20 years of what I learned from 20 years of magic and it's absolutely incredible Uh, let's see Okay, uh people saying yeah, they think it'd be really cool. That's great. I'm very glad to hear that um Like to see more single player stuff and everything. It's a good note We've had you know, it's a fair amount of questions for that. So You know, well, that's something I definitely will take into account as we look to the future Okay, two and says I had a few questions that may have been missed either by me or not ask yet One is there any sort of underdog bonus for campaigns how to keep one player from running away with it? Yeah, great question. So no, there is not an underdog Bonus for um campaigns. That was something I thought about You know, do we need to have like does there need to be Some kind of like strict way that suddenly if you're an underdog uh That like it's compensating for that in some way if you're if you're on the on the lower side of the thing And in the end I decided uh Against it for a couple reasons one. I hope people played together in the campaign two You actually evolve pretty slowly in the game Um, like you're you don't see a huge difference now if somebody's like way up there and all their their demons are at like 25 to 30 experience and somebody comes in with zero of course That's a gap and it's going to be hard to overcome But what I saw in testing was if people were just some distance apart it actually didn't really make much of a difference So it felt it felt like I would be in that case where somebody's so distant It feels like the right answer is well, you're not just you know Somebody start over or give them that amount of experience or something like it seems like there's a better way to solve that Than sort of artificially kneecapping one person or blowing this person up when there's distance only when it only seemed to matter when they were that far apart So that's kind of why I decided against it Um, how many games should a campaign ideally run over? Is there a sweet spot? Uh, so I wrote it with the concept that uh a full campaign would be like if you sort of were playing through It'd be kind of 10 games, but you could play a lot more a lot less But I think an average campaign run is about 10 games Which I think that's for most of us. That's actually pretty aspirational To get 10 games in a campaign but that would kind of take you to the Like you're getting a maximal number of upgrades probably you've recruited everybody you want to recruit You know, you've got a good deal of artifacts You've got people who you've got lesser demons fully evolved up Maybe you recruited a couple superiors that kind of thing like you you've probably explored most everything you can after somewhere in the like 10 ish games area Uh any recommendations for running greater demons from other miniature lines that are well above 60 millimeter base sizes Because there'd be an add-on rule for models to help mitigate the problems with running them Yeah, it's tough. I mean The the answer is that you really don't I'll say that like When bases get much bigger than 60 mil in this game things do get wonky because it's just so big My honest answer is like I know we all want to use every fig But sometimes the game just it runs better if you're staying within that cohort you can you can you can be pretty fluid within it And even then I wouldn't put many people on 60s just because of like the size of the game board can get overwhelmed pretty quick You know like using those things as those big demons as something like the beast in the game is great Because there that then makes that that's what we we're doing whenever we when we test at the beast scenario We would use one of the greater demons You know or if there if you have one of those and you're really determined to use it just put them on a smaller base That can be certainly something you can do But like if you bring in something like a chariot base or something like that, you know a 120 by 92 It's gonna really be distorting to what's going on in the game is what I'll say like it's not You know, I'd love to give you a different answer, but it's kind of where it is Uh If the model I have is on an asymmetrical base such as a calvary base How would you measure those to see if they fall within the successive sizes? Whatever the longest length is and that's fine. We actually played with like squares I actually did have somebody on like a sort of rectangular base We tested with there was a couple of those just to happen to be in the mix people are using it That doesn't make much difference again Just use the longest size because that's what's going to be relevant As long as like what ends up happening is the sort of physical space they occupy is what ultimately matters So if it's in like the 25 to 40 range is really a sweet spot If you've got one or two people on 50 or 60 everything's fine No issues no drama llama there So like if you've got a calvary base or something it's no big deal Uh, there you go. Hope that I hope I answered all those questions Uh, okay Uh, it just purchased finally gets me a reason to buy corn demons. Yes, absolutely Uh, oh sam. Hey, what's up sam? Hey, buddy. I hope you're doing well up there, man I'm gonna get up and see you sometime soon. I hope everything's fantastic up in whiskinson Uh mini hobby therapy. Thanks for the response. I'm not sure how you do all you do for 24 hours on the day Uh Because I'm doing this stream now The reason one of the reasons I'm doing this stream now is because it has been a thorn in my paw For the past six hours the way that that stream ended. I can't leave anything unfinished I have a problem And like I when I when something is in my mind I'm like lasered in on and I can't stop that helps when writing rules or painting minis Or in something like this and I didn't feel like I got to end that one earlier on my terms And it's just sat there and it clawed at the back of my brain for hours and I was like So, you know, I'm very like driven. I guess is the answer um I am determined to I am determined to buy the time when I die look back and go I didn't waste a minute Not one So there you go uh Alan thomas thoughts on creating philosophy specific story campaigns similar to work right in this case Hmm. That is a really interesting question. Alan. I don't think I have any answer for you But that would be an awesome blog post. I'm going to make a note about that Give me a moment, Alan Because I think that would be fantastic. So so everybody knows there is a blog on this site as well Over here. So you can like you can actually see the I don't know if they're down here. Actually, I'm sorry. It's over on This page right here Yeah, here you go. So here's some of the blogs that have come up Like and here's kind of me talking about activation and stuff like that So if you want to see rules and I'm you know, I'm always looking for good blog topics to explore So that is a really really great one I will think on that and maybe I can write something up philosophy specific uh Campaign blog. Sorry. That's a great idea. I don't have any thoughts on it. I honestly hadn't thought about it before But what a what a cool idea. So thank you, Alan. I'll I'll look and see what I can do there Uh, okay, um, did you guys need a dramatic voice over For the how to play video? I mean, we've got adam. Have you heard that man's voice like his his dulcet sultry tones are exactly what we need. Uh I I think the number one thing that holds me back from from success on youtube is my awful awful voice. So uh But here we are We we we play with the cards. We're dealt Uh, let's see Uh, okay Uh, let's see are the creature caster minis an appropriate scale for this game Yeah, especially like the matriarchs and stuff like that. Yeah, they're perfect They're perfect and then like your devout could be one of the sort of bigger ones, but not the huge ones I guess because there's sort of three sizes. Uh, there's like the matriarchs the Something and then the kings and queens whatever that middle one is would could be a devout because they they actually come on like 60s and you could put them on or 60s or 50s or whatever So they're they're pretty much in the ballpark for the really big mini and all of the different matriarch sizes the 40 Mill base sizes those are perfect. I use I actually used a bunch of those in my warband. So yeah Uh Okay Uh, mr. Skull face you need sculptors for your game. Not really. We're not Super interested in like it's miniatures agnostic and we're not super interested in in aligning with any single miniature Like we want to let people explore their creativity. That's part of the fun, right? No, I'm not saying you're in the future. We might not do a game with a miniature line I don't I I'm not going to rule anything out Um, but for this one and probably for several games to come I would think we'll we'll stick pretty miniature agnostic and and we are going to try to work with a couple 3d printers or Or you know, something like that to get a discount out there So people can be directed and at least have some some options for some demons to go to Uh Great somebody hit great unclean one would make a good terrain for this something to fight around. Yeah, absolutely Sure 100 you can just use them as a big piece of terrain Uh Stephen Wayne what type of world do the humans who killed the director at live fantasy alt history? That's a great question. Stephen. It's it's a question that I know the answer to and I'm not going to tell you Because part of that is wrapped up in in future thought or yeah, like like future thoughts for this game But yes, that is in like in our background docs that we have written there is Lore that is not present in this book that we have written up, but I am not going to tell you what the answer is I will let you decide what you think it is and create your own Answer for that question and and then you can maybe when the time comes you'll see if you were right or wrong Uh Okay Callum says looks like a great game shame about the max base I just wanted to use the purple sun for the base of my leader I mean you could use the purple sun You just need to not put it on its base the purple sun itself is fine Just put it on like a 50 mil base or a 40 mil base I don't even know if it's that much bigger and you're fine. Just have him float up there. That'd be easy Uh any planes plans to host somewhere we can share cabals Um, somebody had said they're setting up both a facebook group and a reddit Uh, so check that out. I don't I once I get that information. I will certainly share that out Um, so yes, I I know there are already places out there where that stuff can We'll we'll be able to be done Uh, okay Uh sam says what is the best way to manage what special abilities do? Uh, yeah, sure. So um in the uh In the game itself, it's not like that. We tried to keep special abilities pretty contained So that is to say your leader will have more special abilities than Anybody else the devout will be next and then all of your minions By default have one Special ability and and on the play sheet. So do to do to do here on the website There is a cabal sheet. This actually comes in the pdf that you get as well, but we wanted to host it here also Uh, you'll notice that like the leader demon has this space for like multiple abilities or stuff like that Whereas when you get down to the minions, they have kind of two spots, right? Essence or relic or special or special they start with basically one ability so for example All right, the method can move three extra inches when he uses running skirmish Okay, which is just when you activate a demon you get to choose between three different modes Of of taking your turn. Okay, which is charging running skirmish or all out okay, and Those impact like how you can move and when you fight and stuff like that and so The methods ability works when he running skirmish he gets three extra inches. Okay, cool. That's it That's what you have to remember for your method, right now until he gains an essence or is handed a relic or something that's it, right And so the and those upgrades come slowly and intentionally Because I want it to be something where you organically develop it. You know what your minis do You've comfortable with them. You've internalized it and now we introduce a little bit more complexity This guy gets an item this guy gets an essence a little more complexity, you know, and okay You've internalized that this guy getting so on and so forth, right? Uh, and so that's the basic concept of the thing, but yeah, like tracking them on here. I promise you like Very quick into the game. You will remember all of your your um You'll remember what all your your guys do because they're Because the single special ability on the minion demons is so kind of connected to what they do Like the slaughter fiend wants to go all out the ten or sorry the the tentacle beast gives a Penalty for people near him The method moves extra when he's running when he running skirmishes the Spine demon gets a bonus when he charges, right? Like it's it's sort of like it very much will connect you'll connect a to b and okay This is the thing this guy does and then it'll kind of Be there and pretty straightforward as to the the leader and the devout who are the people who start with more Who start with more stuff? They are You know, you know, it's kind of like You have to just spend a little more time looking at it. They still don't tend to be overtly complicated It's two or three special abilities really is what it boils down to and I thought a lot about how we structured them To try to make sure I wasn't over taxing Mentally the the sort of knowledge. So one of the things I really really really tried to avoid in this game I'm not going to say it's nowhere, but it's almost nowhere Is the idea of I activate a thing here Time passes in the game I do that I resolve that thing here. I don't like rules written like that. They're either hard to remember hard to forget Okay Sorry, hard to remember easy to forget. There we go. That's what I was trying to say So instead it's trigger thing happens immediate sense right Uh, and so that's what uh, that's kind of where I how how I structured it Uh cameras just I don't have an awful voice. Oh, well, thank you. I I think I do but I appreciate that Uh, uh acts annex says the Facebook group is live. Oh cool. You somebody should share that to me So I can actually link it out in places and stuff and join it It's probably would be a smart thing Um, Andrew Younger says, uh, real excited for the game. I only own night haunt. Can I use ghosts as demons? Seems to lead us feels wrong with my demons. Oh, heck. Yeah, you can man. Andrew. Absolutely like tortured otherworldly spirits. Yes Demons have a lot of different concepts of what they are across cult right and so We really meant for this to be open because We want people to be able to create what they see as demons like if if you're talking about sort of Japanese mythology and lore these things would look like ogres Or they'd be ony or something or or whatever or maybe even other things um You know panel long ends or whatever. I don't know like the the there's lots of different sort of demonic concepts across cultures And certainly spirits of the damned Fits pretty well. Oh, no, I I think you're you're a plus on that man. No issue at all Uh And yes, as bishop said who said demons aren't spoopy souls of the dead Given that this game also revolves heavily around souls. Yes. I think they even make more sense Uh casual kraken bought the rules still reading but board size 22 by 30 is the recommended default, but there but there's some information on there if you want to play with a different size board as well Uh Dog says haven't thanks for running out of q&a. Um dog will my flgs be able to stock this book for resale? Uh, I mean Not really Because it's it's it's print on demand. So, I mean could they order a bunch of them and then resell them? Yeah, but I don't know why they would I mean if an flgs wants to get in touch with us, I'm sure we could figure something out to to get it in their hands They could always if if there is an flgs really interested Um, I'm happy to you know work with them and talk through what that would mean So they can reach out to adam or I and we can there's a there's a contact email on the website obviously and and you know, well I I'll be all happy. I'm happy to have the conversation. So there you go Um Sean kief says I'm heading to sleep, but I've read the rules and they're pretty sweet. Well, that's awesome Uh Okay says oh acts as I posted your intro video on my comment fantastic acts. I'll check it out. Thank you sir Uh, did you do? Thank you. Do you have a PG number still looking? I'm not sure what you mean casual. I'm sorry That's I'm not sure what you're asking for there. Uh, let's see playwright. Congratulations on successful launch I'm sure that was a hit of dopamine at the end of a finished project We all have that rave you kept going as well as 42. Thanks for you do Look, I'm not gonna lie. I was kind of down today, which is ironic. Like I'll I'll give you an insight into my mental state Um, yeah, I mean I was kind of down Um, which is something that happens a lot at the end of like a really big project where there are a lot a lot a Lot of build up oftentimes that happens and the There's so much put into it and it wasn't that today wasn't great It was great People have really responded positively to the game like everything went well, but your brain is a really funny weird soup It's just a mess So I kind of was able to step outside that and go wait. Am I you know, why am I feeling this sort of melancholy? Right? Well, it's because it It's kind of the thing of you you Put so much into like that moment Where it happens that once the wave crests and begins to recede right you feel it pull the energy out of you Um So, you know the the It's it's just a challenge of like balancing your emotions like that, but honestly coming here and chatting to all of you Is unbelievably positive for my mental state. Like I love this. I love talking to people. I love answering the comments I love to see people's excitement for the game and um You know, this is it's a huge mental positive for me to share with you guys. So I thank you all for being here Okay, uh Let's see Sam Dunn says thank you for covering that. I'm used to writing out a second packet for what Things do but if they're simple, I'll get to play more than right Yes, it should be pretty straightforward. The goal was like I said to keep everything on there I didn't feel the need to use a second sheet at any point in time. So hopefully that's what we've achieved Uh, yeah Okay, uh, let's see Bishop I wonder how much of vince's supposed voice issues are just the mic he uses. I use a nice mic It's like a I use a blue yeti microphone Uh, no, it's mostly my voice. I've heard my voice in a lot of other ways It sounds okay through my head, but then I hear it on any recorded device ever and I'm like, oh god. Why am I even talking? Uh at any rate, uh brian s I really want a shirt with the rain and hell symbol on it any plans for the merch. Uh, yeah Yeah, absolutely. We've got some of those art files. We're gonna see what we can do for that Yes, that is absolutely in the in the plans But I mean we didn't want to like make a bunch of merch Like a minute one of the game if we launched this out and nobody cared Right, everybody's like, uh, okay Like cool, I guess You know, so I so it was kind of one of those things that we wanted to get it out there and see if people actually enjoyed the game And we're interested, um And and then follow merch, but yeah, we've got some we we have had we have had merch talks And we've got some designs and stuff that we can that we've already put together. So yes Uh Alan notice no rain notice. There are no ranged attacks in the game is this balance concerns. Um, no not really. It was actually a very, um intentional choice and the reason for it was because one of the conceptual elements of this game was fast brutal combat Like this is, you know, this hell dimension Demons aren't technological. They don't have to be they're all supernaturally tough and strong and fast They didn't really have the need to develop guns and so They, you know, we we purposely wanted to keep ranged attacks out of it because That that has two things it does and it's balanced. It's sort of yeah, it's easier to balance things, which is true But again, that's kind of a bonus thing The actual reason was I wanted to make a game where like movement really mattered and how you tactically thought about things Really mattered and positioning of your army really mattered and the activation system would feed into it in really interesting ways And to do that being focused on melee Really facilitates a lot of that if I if to if to affect the game I have to go walk over somewhere and punch somebody Right, then it it has a real impact on how the game feels and how the game plays And how much you have to sort of think ahead And and under and adapt to the evolving game situation And so that was really the goal So there's a thematic element of it feels more brutal and demonic right to have them in melee ripping each other asunder Like that was a guiding principle But also I wanted to facilitate that skirmish type combat that really had this tactical vibe to it. Yeah So You know, there you go That was kind of so it was kind of serving two masters and then the side effect is yeah It is legitimately easier to balance a game without a bunch of ranged attacks, right? Uh, okay second on the shirt seems like some people are are in for the shirt Yep, somebody asked page size more shirt stuff Yes, your brain is meat with electricity and it would be strange if it didn't do weird stuff. Absolutely true Donnie says I just jump on it at the heartfelt moment. I love your content. Well, thank you guys Like I said, really hanging out with you guys is awesome Okay, uh, Donnie says yes in your head you hear way more bass. Yeah, exactly exactly. Um AF says yeah, I know you feel it's like a dam holding all the energy and then finally giving way Yeah, that's the end of any big project, right? You work on for months and months. Yep. That's how it is Uh, what's the backstory on the new company name? Sure. Yes, narling badger games It's adam's company name. Um adam lives in wisconsin So, you know badger thing and it was a name he made up and had a website for back in the 90s He retired it from actual use several years back like 2012 or something hasn't been in use for a while But you know, he said could we use your? uh Could we use your? Uh Do you want to just use this company name and I yeah, sure sounds good, you know, he it's it was fine So I I had no issue with it seemed like a cool name Badgers are cool So, yeah, this is it was that much of a decision. I guess I didn't really think too deeply about it Uh robert valence valence and why no superior demons in 200 point one off game Superior demons are really powerful in how they can affect the game Um because they their abilities are such that they're What they can do is really game altering Right and so one of the reasons I wanted to keep them out of it Was I wanted to keep them for sort of an end of the campaign thing because even if you open up the points They can be so dominating in in their presence of what they can do that Any other normal thing you bought wouldn't balance against it Um, so they just didn't work was is basically the answer right like graders aren't that much Bigger or better. They're a little bit bigger or better, but they're okay Points can kind of do the work to balance them out But the superiors are they're very very impactful And they ended up overshadowing everything now later in the campaign when you're like you can't recruit superior demons until you pass a certain gate In the campaign now by that point in the campaign You have acquired enough like essences and relics and special abilities That you've got enough outs and options that the they can't unbalance the game anymore Because the normal demons have ramped up to meet them by that point right So that's that's why um Yeah, I mean the superior demons are all Awesome, like I truly love all of the demons we came up with in here. I really really do um But the superior demons are just really fun Like I just in thinking about how they act and what they do and writing their rules like they all have that name that bequeaths Uh sort of power like the shadow king the lord of flame and the venom queen Right, they all have like the the titles. I wanted to make sure that as you went up their titles kind of um Increased accordingly say just from the name you could tell where they sort of ranked Uh, like the the graders are matt torture master Serpent knight and marques to winter, right? Um So, yeah, that's why there you go Okay, uh, hey vents. Are there any model lines you recommend for the game or places to get good demon like stls Yes, many. Um, so my mini factory is a is a gold mine for this if you can handle stls Um, just go there type in the word demon and you're gonna have a ton of options Um, lord of the print, which is where this guy comes from is good. Um arch villain has a whole demon set that is awesome Um, that that works super duper well for this Uh The frost grave put out a demon set that actually works pretty nice like little armor demons and stuff If you're looking for like actual not stls, but just minis to buy um, that they have a couple demon sets out there Um, but yeah, like because it's a pretty wide open concept if you can imagine it being demons it can work Uh, why why zed you mentioned in part one that there are small things in the rules of any game you make that you're particularly proud of any cool examples uh Yeah, sure, so Like I'll I'll give a if you're asking me for from games I write because that's sort of the things that happen like when I wrote this game This is a role-playing game. This has been behind me for years, but this is the last game. I wrote before this It's called ngs. It's cut off camera, but that's what it's called the narrative game system and uh ngs For example in that it was the character creation That I was really proud of because we came up with these really this really inventive collaborative character generation system that I actually still use in every role-playing game I use to the state And I really love it and it was something that I was so I really it really just worked like sometimes things just hit In this game. It was the activation system. Um, I think the activation system between It between the mix of randomness integrating something like what a bold action style game or something like that does but with transparency So there is shared symmetrical knowledge Right, but not shared symmetrical skill in taking advantage of that knowledge That's what I love about how it works uh skill against skittle because the you can Like you're both aware of the same facts. Nothing is hidden Yet there will be a difference in how the two of you recognize what those facts are and and act upon them and utilize them so, um So, yeah, there you go Okay, uh, let's see uh The twist is the name is from 1992 snarling badger. Sure. Uh, I'm uh Brian says I'm playing with warbands now and wondering did you make the demon types based on kinds of models available? Or create the types before really seeing what was out there. I just created the types honestly I just thought about like what are the kinds of things I would want here and actually their names went through several iterations Um, some of them stuck throughout the whole thing like I wrote slaughter fiend was the first demon I wrote He never changed his name. He was always the slaughter fiend. His stats moved a little but he was like You know because it's just such a concept, right? It's so easy like yep That's what we're going to need. We're going to need a guy called that in this brutal melee skirmish combat game Um, but yeah, I just kind of more thought of like what would be the different roles I wanted to make sure each of them had some kind of reason for being uh a balance against each other And then you know the sort of names and stuff like that came separately. We changed names several times. So Uh, like some of them had really two names that were way too specific originally And so I had to kind of back off that so the concept was broader Oh, there you go bishop throwing out some great names. Yeah, lord of the print archvillain Beastie area. I'm nice. I wasn't familiar with that one. Oh, that's right. Yes Titan forge is doing a demon release on their patreon next month. Good call. I forgot about that Uh, okay Uh, donnie rongo. I'm thinking of using white werewolf taverns undead stuff to do an undead lich style cabal Sounds amazing to me. I see no reason why that doesn't fit uh Oh, naga medusa style. Yes, that'd be amazing I mean mariliths were always like my favorite demons and You know, so there you go Uh Vince you fake crack notes won't fit on a 60 mil base given his points. It's the only way I'll get used Probably not. He seems like he's a little bit bigger than that You'd have to get him on a big rock and then trick it way down um Okay Ghostmountain, what's your writing process? Do you write lore or rules first switching between the two as you go? Sure talk about that So we started with the concept and all of the early discussion before we ever got to writing any rule or anything Was sketching out the narrative first now. That's not every beat of the story that's like This is hell and hell isn't what it used to be and the director It fell as the humans invaded and killed them all and closed the portal on the way out or whatever, right? And these philosophies are here and they matter and it's you know raging chaos across hell and Souls are are the important currency and you know, you the demons are trying to collect and gather souls for power And things like that's all that was kind of thought of first, right? Then we sat down and like I said, we did kind of a little word cloud experiment The kind of things we wanted to have here and then we wrote the guiding principles and then from there. It's it's a little back and forth, right? So we would sit down and sketch out a concept like okay. What do we want? You know, what are the types of demons and I don't mean like at the specific level like what what did demons look like in this game? All right, or what are the kinds of stats we need for things to happen? You know, what do we want stats to look like right? So we kind of throw all concepts and and you we just did little back and forth idea Sessions to sketch out concepts then you'd go back and that can inform something You sketch that you sketch that out refined refined and then eventually you break it into full rules And you're always calling back as you're as you're doing that kind of slow breakout and expansion From like a sentence of an idea to here's a paragraph of what that would look like to here's the full rules text or whatever You're always referring back to the guiding principles to make sure you're staying in line with that right And then you you're always going back to the lore and sort of that that ends up becoming a sort of virtuous cycle, right? Uh battle barn. She's got two copies so I can give one to a friend. Oh, that's awesome. Great Uh, that's fantastic. Yeah, that's that's really really cool Uh, Timothy hails has going through this process changed how you approach warhammer weekly and analyze gw game design No No, I mean like Because it's that I used all the same principles I talk about on the show when I was writing this right like I've talked before about the nature of design versus development and and how we work and that's exactly what we did here I mean, we just implemented the same thing now. I have no money, you know, like I Compared to gw. I mean, I'm not living hand to mouth or whatever, but I you know, I'm just a normal person Uh, and you know, so like they can obviously throw a lot more money and should have a much more robust version Of the process than I do, but I mean I implemented the best practice version of whatever it is I can do Right at the that adam and I could do at the scale we operate at right and you know little things like There's a couple of typos we missed in there We're we're gonna fix that in the pdf and then re upload the pdf and the cool part about going through war games Vault is that when we re upload the pdf you can all just download the new one and ta da you'll get a digitally updated fixed copy Look at that. So there you go. Um, that's a cool thing So when we when we re upload and and fix the little typos, which we're collecting There's not that many of them, but there's a few in there Um, you know, if you already bought the game, no issue. You've you've got the the new copy right in your hands. So there you go Uh Battlefarm says your game is the number one best-selling game on the website. I that's awesome I couldn't believe it like I I'm really really thrilled that people have responded and love this game I really loved writing this. I really loved playing this Everybody we play tested with had a ton of fun. And you know Like last night before we hit the launch button, I will openly admit there's always this last minute moment of terror that you're like Uh, that you're like is this gonna fall in its face and absolutely no one's gonna care Again, that that is the the voice Of doubt and and then failure that lives in the back of your mind, right? And that was weighing heavily on me as I as I went to bed last night And you know that the response today from the community has been overwhelmingly positive and amazing I'm so glad people are liking the rules and really getting into it. Um So, you know, we're just going to keep going onward up or try to provide like I said more videos more stuff More information. I really want to make sure that if people are interested in this that I'm here to support you 100% answer your questions get anything you need in your hands that kind of stuff to really make this as enjoyable Of an experience as I can for you Uh, that's what that's what ultimately my job is as the creator of this game along with adam Uh, donny says I would like to do a cabal that is themed around a new council So all my guys would be like equals is there a way to do that besides just rotating my leader? Well councils still have leaders so like you could do it thematically Where you know, like, yeah, there'd be slight differences in their power But that would be a great lords of hell warband where they're all imperious And I would point out that there is actually a title So we haven't talked about the title system much, but I'm really actually excited about it So there is a title system in the campaign game. It's right here it's in step four And You gain titles by they're like achievements in in a game, right? And this is something I was really thrilled because I when we came up with this I really liked this idea not that achievements or some new idea How to implement this I liked this was another one of the things I really enjoyed And you know, you gain titles when you achieve certain things in game or over the course of multiple games or whatever And uh, one of the you actually can gain a title Called usurper. She's got to find it Usurper there you go The non-leader slays a friendly leader twice over any number of games This demon becomes the leader use the leader advancement and your current leader is removed from the warband as per the coal The weak ability so on and so forth. Um, they are they also steal all their stuff So you get all their relics So like you can have little internal power struggles where somebody's like long live the king and then you know throws down there You can you can move fossa your your your leader or whatever Um, so you could go for you could even maybe explore stuff like that over the course of the game So there you go But you can you can bring your other people up and make them councils of equals by eventually just you know Passing your relics to them or essences to them and that will really even them out Okay, ray ray what model is on page 19 bottom right corner. I don't know. Let's find out Oh, this guy. Yeah. Oh cool. Yeah this so that is the creature caster Dracon. That's actually the one I painted and then that is the Uh paint over by artist empire Uh It blew my mind when I saw that picture you should see it in in like full size and all that it's it's great But I mean obviously we're using it as the scaled-down art, but artist empire Is does these he's the one who did like this art like these are all minis that he just does photoshop and does magic over top of I have no idea how he does it the man is a sorcerer That's the best I can say Uh, so there you go I pronounce it patry on I have no idea how it's supposed to be pronounced I pronounce everything wrong. So all of my necron robits are going to head to patreon Uh power hungry 5000 haven't excited to get a book. I have some creature caster demons begging to be used I may make a whole bound out of the cheaper ones. Hey, that's like exactly My war bands were were made of a lot of creature caster demons. So there you go Uh Donald kelly and the narrative are demons more people as opposed to weird abstractions I'm thinking more geometric and multi Organ like the more literal descriptions of biblical angels. Yeah in the narrative demons take all shapes sizes and forms So they are they are not some are quite human Some actually pass as human and will or or can take human form and will go to the mortal world as such They're very traditional like humanoids Some are nightmare horror creatures of goo and tentacles and eyeballs with teeth inside them, right like There's an you know, so like anything like that can work Uh, that's one of the reasons we wanted to make this miniature agnostic. I think It wasn't just hey, let's make a miniature agnostic game. So we don't have to use miniatures It was hey the concept of demons as a broad concept is so wide. It's the perfect miniatures agnostic game because What does that demon look like? Biblical geometric shapes Japanese oni Ahead with its intestines hanging out of it that floats around Uh, a floaty tortured spirit ghost sure Right like any of that could work because that's all that they're they are self actualizing manifestations of tortured souls, right What does that look like? I don't know but you can define for yourself. I would say Uh axe annex, uh, am I doing it wrong on the frostgrave demons? Or do you really have to carve a bit of the chainmail away to attach their tails? Uh, you'd want to ask adam. I haven't assembled them. He assembled a bunch of them Um, but you might I don't I don't know. I haven't put them together Uh Okay, donnie rongo did mortheim inspire you for the campaign buff debuff rewards, etc Oh, yeah amongst many other games like that, but but yes Mortheim was a seminal influence in my life. I think it that uh, Tomas pruning or how I I'm probably butchering his name fantastic guy, um Is like Really created one of the all-time greats in that game And one of the things I was loved was that in the in the nature of the sort of post game effects there was both wheel and woe and That's something that was absolutely in my head to create here, but there's other games. I played that had similar effects I like when you can win for losing Or lose for winning And I think that those are our you know, that helps keep things sort of interesting overall So it was very much in my mind as I as I created those campaign effect charts, right? Uh, let's see Torrent between a band of spider demons or heronimus bosh type demons businesses. Why not both? There you go Andrew Fairbank says y'all are number six on the google search result. That's awesome. That's great Uh anyone who has ever worked on anything ever has that feel you're talking about the the cresting of the wave. Yep Uh, what can I go for? What are your long-term goals with designing these games with atoms side hustle? hobby or launch into a new career now just Just a side I don't know side hustles probably the wrong word hobby is the right word Uh to make fun games that people will enjoy playing and get hopefully hours of fun with their friends out of That's it. That's my motivation Like if you're trying to get rich, this is the wrong career Okay, like this it's not their goal. Um No, I just I really love writing games. I love sharing with people. I hope people have fun playing them I don't that's pretty much my motivation. I like doing it. Adam likes doing it It's fun to work with adam honestly to have an excuse to hang out with him he's a good friend and a really great guy and it's just Great to have an excuse to do stuff like that. And if we can do that and get people Really jazzed and and having a good time with their friends I mean, I don't I think that's why I love creating games. Like it's a pretty wonderful feeling Uh, Vince, do you think this game would be friendly towards home brewing rules? Oh, yeah, man 100% Yes, yes, I mean we talk multiple times in there and have multiple Uh callouts on the side of like if there's stuff you want to change or home brew your own rules for Go nuts Like we are very explicit about that. Yes Is there a discord for this not at the moment? I don't think but uh, because I think adam has a discord like for his Patrick on people. So I I don't I don't and I don't have a discord or maintain a discord So no at the moment, but I don't know what the future will hold for that. It's a good idea Discussion I can have with him Uh, emil hello, Vince. I love the idea behind this game Have you ever played or are familiar with the miniatures game called hell Dorado? If so, was that ever an influence? Yes, I am familiar with it I wouldn't know. I don't necessarily think it was an influence any more than anything else, but it's cool game um Like I like a lot of that kind of stuff Um weird west and demonic west and dark west and all of those and just wild west indeed Um concepts are all really fun to me. I don't I like all those games I don't know that any of them were a direct influence on this in any kind of way I could point to but I mean, they're all up in my brain Right, so I mean we're all a mishmash of a thousand different influences. I've played a lot of miniature scrimmage games I really like them and so I'm sure they're all swirling around up there somewhere Uh Alan Thomas there is no title the natural one for the guy who only rolls ones I am just a point that is a missed opportunity Because you could have then introduced him as I'm the one natural one Yeah, absolutely missed Uh, you can move fossa your leader sold there you go. Yeah, exactly Uh Okay, all artists empires in the chat there. Hey buddy. Yeah, I mean like all his twitter's in the earlier Thing everybody should be following him. I mean he's it's crazy. You can watch his real-time videos of how he does it I'm pretty sure the man's actually a sorcerer Some kind of wizard or magician who has tapped into dark spirits I mean he shows you doing it in photoshop and clicking things I believe that's all just for show and he has he is using and calling upon some form of dark magic to do what he does Uh, okay Uh, travis are the miniatures in the arts? Uh, are the miniatures in the art miniatures or art of some kind? Great looking real sir. By the way. Okay, so yeah, that's what I was just talking about So artist empire. This is like one of his pieces right here Uh, this is and there's others that are that are in the book itself Um, all the things you see that are that look like miniatures. So like this Right, those are uh miniatures They are just miniatures like there you go that one we looked at earlier Those are miniatures painted by adam and i that then uh artist empire took and worked in photoshop and adds like the background to in the Atmospherics and the lighting and the textures and the dust and it's it's incredible And it really like sets the thing in a place in a world And so those are that's all um, that's all artist empire doing that work But yeah, that's a just a real miniature just a straight-up picture snapped and then sent over where the magic happens Uh, let's see Uh, donnie rongo during design. Did you think about the cabals being a point by bilgerone or is it too hard to make it? Truly modular and not actually linear uh During design. Did you think about the cabals being a point by? build your own I is what you're donnie. I'm not sure what you're asking. Do you mean like? um Where the demon itself like you would build The demon out of a point by system like so instead of picking a slaughter fiend or a this thing or a that thing I could I could point by my way into the demon that I wanted If that's what you're asking, which I think it might be I'll answer that question The answer is in that regard it just became too I I did have a bit of a thought about it But the problem is mathematically that system just adds so much complexity of testing It's so easy for something to accidentally break for me to miss something or for a permutation not to come out and play testing So using a set number of variables in the in the prefabricated demons that could get modified um Really helped a lot in making the game a more smooth experience, right? So that's that's what I would say Uh, okay Uh, emil, um, thank you again yourself now for creating this game. Super excited to pick up a copy and print awesome uh Yes, there's man. I suck you by yep chat roberts. Sorry. I missed the start of this So in the future, is there any intention of introducing an alternate faction that isn't demons for those that may not like that idea? um So plans no thoughts. Yes um, I we we have talked about Potential expansion for this game that's doesn't mean it will ever happen. It might never happen But we have ideas and we'll depend on our time and what we decide to work on next uh and um And yes, if we go in the direction we have discussed it would introduce the concept of alternate things so alternate alternate Not demons for you to explore. How about that? So yes, absolutely chat. Great question Uh, jason robertson late to the party has he answered what size bases are used with this rule set? Great question jason So the answer is we have a recommended range of bases in all of the different Uh demons. So for example, your minion demons can be on 25 32 or 40 mil is our recommended range You can go Above or below that. It's only our recommended size. That's where you're going to kind of get this sort of best experience But again, like with most things we say Hey, you know, this is your game and you're gonna get what you want out of it And you can see like right there at the top suggested base size Happens at the top of every entry So for example, your devout can be on anything from a 32 up to a 60 Doesn't really matter if they're rounds or squares. It's pretty irrelevant We did play test with both nothing really changed. I tend to prefer rounds because I just like round bases But yeah, you can go either way. So there you go basically it is round bases and the sizes are Most of your demons are going to be on 25 to 40s with a couple of them Basically either in the same range or having the ability to go to either 50 or 60 Okay Let's see Donnie rongo. Yes, I answered the question. I got to see in english and an a in math. Hey, no problem, buddy It's all good. I got what you were going for Uh, let's see Brandon s. Here's the real question. Are we going to be seeing? Uh Hobby cheatings on how to convert sick covens. Yeah, you know, if I was good at this If I was like good at this whole youtube thing That would be the video I teed up for tomorrow, right? Would that make sense? Wouldn't just any basic common sense marketing person Have teed that up for the video for tomorrow Sure, like that would be that would be common sense 101, right? Anybody who's trying to be successful Would do that That is not the video coming tomorrow. Um You know, yes, I adam is going to be streaming on twitch talking about demons and making up his cabal and stuff like that We actually kind of outsourced it to a point Uh, so talking to we sent copies out to like two plus tough dug Uh to dana howl and to a few others and I know that they're going to be making some videos about Uh doing cabals And so there will be content out there of people doing it Um, so there's going to be lots of other people who are probably better at producing content than me Uh, who will who will also who will go to make you know converting your cabal for reyna souls or painting something for reyna Reyna souls good luck reyna in hell. It's getting late folks. I'm sorry I've been talking for like an hour plus straight Um, so there's going to be hopefully I hope fingers crossed Um people making content about the game we we put that we talked to several content creators in advance and You know got the game and the pdf in their hands So they could take a look and decide what they wanted to do and you know Just kind of worked with them and said like if you're interested if you think the game's good Do something if not we totally understand like we let them We said nothing is contingent on this We expect nothing if you like it if you think it's good and you're going to enjoy it cool Do something if not no no skin off our nose. We don't mind at all right Um Okay Donnie says getting in john to do something for reyna in hell. He paints weird stuff. Anyways, um, he he's one of the people So we'll see what he does uh And so yeah, oh bishop said I know you sent it two plus tough any plans to collab with our youtubers Yeah, so there's yes. We did send it to other other youtubers as well There's a whole cadre of content creators who we thought would be interested in this and and we tried to get it in there In their hands to do something for it. So Uh, okay Oh, cool effort and shout out for people looking for stl has given some cool names there. Yeah very good Uh, let's see Uh, yeah, that's I caught up with all the questions awesome. There we go folks. Okay Uh, well Uh af says slaw demons slaw demons be cool slawed are awesome. We all know that Uh living that slawed life. Yes slawed demon frogs are Scary as all get out if anybody has any final questions, I'll hang out to here for just another moment Uh, and we will um I will answer those if not what I'll say is thank you everybody for hanging out for all of this time I'm glad to see my changes to the chat kept the the evil bots away Um, so I apologize that we ended on such a sour note earlier everybody, but thank you for hanging out with me here Uh asking so many great questions Um about the game about the process about how I think about this and and everything like that. I hope I I answered Uh everything to your satisfaction As always if you do think of more you can you can ask in any of the videos. I will answer all of the comments Um Yeah, and that's that's where we're at Uh, so I Brian s's I heard slaw demons. No not cool slaw demons slawed Uh slawed demons or slaw day much like the uh the early 90s r and b star uh shaw day So there you go, uh, so thank you everybody Really appreciate all your awesome questions. Like I said everything a more drop them down there Hit like on this if you did subscribe. Obviously if you haven't already Just so you know, we are going to dedicate warhammer weekly this week to Uh rain and hell. Uh, so this wednesday warhammer weekly will be rain and hell weekly a little change of pace We're gonna have adam myself and tyler on Uh discussing the game And we're gonna go through it a little more Thoroughly in that show like really instead of just what we'll still have to leave you q&a But we're gonna kind of break things down Actually like do a structured walkthrough of the book So people can get an idea there. Like I said watch this weekend Adam will have the kind of sample round play video going out Uh, so we're gonna lots more content Coming, uh, there you go. So Awesome everybody. Thank you very much. Like I said hit like subscribe Look forward to chatting with you more about this and as always We'll see you in hell Bye. Bye everyone