 Wonderful. Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening, everyone, as you all are joining us. Thank you for joining us today for the second part of the three-part series with Hyperledger Member Company Consensus on DeFi and Dow. Today I am very excited to be participating and listening to the session with Liz Matthews, the Executive Director of Consensus, and Clemens Wan, who is the Solution Architect at Consensus as well. You'll be hearing from them for the rest of the hour, and we'll also have some Q&A time. Today's topic is DeFi and Dow and a deep dive into the unprecedented DeFi growth. So once again, welcome everyone. Let's go through a couple of housekeeping. First of all, here at Hyperledger, all are welcome. So please do abide by our requirements to be nice to one another and create a safe and welcoming community for all. There's some additional housekeeping rules I'd like to take you through. The antitrust policy, all Linux Foundation Hyperledger meetings that involve participation by competitors. We do want to conduct this under the antitrust and competition laws. If you have any questions, please go ahead and ask me during the event via direct message if you have any concerns with that. The session is being recorded and it will be available in our resource webinar library as well as YouTube. So if you want to re-catch a couple of things that the panelists speak about, please feel free or share with others. And also we'll be providing the slide download in the webinar listings as well as the YouTube library. So a couple of other things, please stay active and get the most out of it. Use the Zoom features. There's a raise hand feature if you have any questions and you want to speak up, we can unmute you when the question and answer period comes up and we're happy to allow your voice question to come through. If you prefer to ask questions via the Q&A, go ahead and enter your question into the chat at any time. I will be monitoring that and when appropriate, we'll get those questions answered for you. And please feel free to talk and comment if you want to go ahead and say where you're zooming in from today, for example, I am zooming in from Napa, California. This is one of my first in-person events that I'm at and I'm very excited. For those of you who don't know me, my name is Daniela Barbosa. I am the general manager of Hyperledger Foundation. Sorry, let me try that again. I'm the executive director of the Hyperledger Foundation. I also serve as the general manager for blockchain healthcare and identity. So I recently took over as the executive director for Hyperledger. I've been here with Hyperledger Foundation for the last four years. For those of you who don't know what Hyperledger is, we're a collaborative and open source community that is hosted by the Linux Foundation. And we are made up of many projects, as well as many projects, as well as many communities, special interest groups, working groups, etc. So these educational sessions are really to educate our community and those that are participating in our community around the different projects. And today's project discussion and we'll talk a little bit about Hyperledger Bezu, but the greater Ethereum mainnet and the Ethereum ecosystem as well. I always like to start with a little history of Ethereum and Hyperledger because some people don't realize that both communities have been working together since very early. In 2016, Consensus actually joined Hyperledger when Hyperledger was formed. And since then we've had a lot of different Ethereum based solutions in our ecosystem, including Hyperledger borough, which was admitted with the EDM. And then we also in 2019 had Hyperledger Bezu, which was contributed as a code base by Consensus. They used to be called Pantheon with the Pegasus team. And now as part of the Hyperledger community and one of the great projects that we have here. So once again, the Hyperledger community has been working very closely with the Ethereum ecosystem, the Ethereum Enterprise Alliance, as well as the Ethereum Foundation. And over the last two years with Consensus as a board member as a premier member to Hyperledger and really committing lots of resources and great community efforts around Hyperledger Bezu. So without further ado, I'd like to introduce our two speakers today. We have Liz Matthew, as I said, and I'll let them introduce themselves and their roles at Consensus as well as Clemens. So Liz over to you and if you want to go ahead and share, I will stop sharing and you can. Great, thank you. Looks great. Hi. Yeah, I'm Liz Matthew. I run strategic sales for the Americas at Consensus. Prior to that, I was running capital markets at another blockchain company Securitize. And prior to that, I have a traditional background in fixed income sales trading and structuring. Great to meet you all. Hey, and I'm Clemens Wanma, Global Solution Architect with Consensus around digital assets, DeFi, NFTs, and now DAOs, which I'll be talking about later today. And before that is with R3 and before that with Credit Suisse. Nice to meet everyone. So I'll do the first half here. The intro to this is about DeFi and DAOs. And what we want to emphasize is decentralized finance or DeFi is really growing up. It is no longer just copying traditional financial products. There's not just a reskinning or re-digitization of financial products, but because of its composability and interweaving of all of these protocols, there's a lot of powerful new patterns that are really being created around these communities. And so let's just jump into it. What I see as DeFi and why I think it's incredibly interesting is a lot of people say this composability. So atomic execution with composability means that I can not just call a bunch of APIs and hopefully in a centralized way it'll be executed. But I am calling a set of smart contract events and those events can actually trigger multiple events that directly connect to the movement of value. So atomic execution here means that all of it goes through or none of it goes through. So you can create very interesting things like flash loans where one event, so one transaction, calls a lot of other smart contracts to create a MakerDAO collateral deposit contract and then do a lot of other aspects of borrowing and lending before it comes back and repays that flash loan. So with this, you're really adding in new financial primitives. Imagine a bank that's able to do a structured product and code in that structured product and deploy it very quickly. It's no longer limited by the legal team and by the structuring team and by all these other aspects. Just the coders being able to create a new company, fork some open source code and do some audits and then launch a basically crypto hedge fund or kind of new token primitive within months rather than around all of this other overhead, for example. And so the patterns that we've seen is around lending and borrowing. So once you have stable coins, you can start to lend and borrow them. There is staking, the liquidity provision for staking is also quite interesting. There's a lot of swapping that's happening. MetaMask has swap features that go across aggregation and there's a lot of yield and even liquidity farming and liquidity mining. So a lot of new buzz terms out there. It's already challenging the industry and this this slide is, you know, three years old and still it looks fairly similar except it's kind of expanded quite a bit more. Anything dealing with money payments, investment banking for fundraising exchanges with automatic market making brokerages insurance payments asset management with different token and token protocols with funds have already been created. So it's even expanding into dows and how to create these decentralized autonomous organizations. And the reason why I think a lot of businesses are intrigued by this is because in a traditional financial model, you have a very high cost of operations you're working with a lot of financial market infrastructure that that has been well defined. And with the centralized finance or decentralized finance model, a lot of that is reduced into a blockchain protocol, which is also nonprofit, but also into the DeFi infrastructure that's out there. So imagine, you know, I've worked for a bank where I had to have a separate computer and we used to have desktops under the computer, and then it became a thin client where my desktop was just kind of seeing a virtual machine that is now in the cloud. Imagine that but for finance so instead of having a whole financial, you know, tech stack in my company, I can just connect to these protocols. And that means that manufacturing cost goes to zero, right, I no longer need to go through the that legal process and too much detail and kind of check with multiple parts of the company. The reduced time to market for an idea such as a decentralized asset management protocol can just be forked off of existing code. And also the number of intermediaries that are providing that connection between the issuer and the investors are now shortened people can just pretty much purchase different tokens and swap between those tokens. This is an example and this is kind of combining NFTs as well as kind of this new market space. The pattern for Uniswap version three for liquidity provider ownership is now issued through an NFT. So what you see on the left here is the actual NFT that you receive for purchasing a spread for being a liquidity provider. And what this means is it's attracting the software based liquidity provider where you can run API's to change and get in and out of positions. And that's super powerful because now there's reduced barrier of entry, and you really get less sophisticated liquidity providers and I'm a liquidity provider I'm market making and I don't have any licenses. I just have a few tokens but you can pretty much purchase these NFTs and use them to redeem for other types of tokens. And I want to mention that this isn't just open banking API access. I've been to multiple cybos in the past and people say well what's the difference between open banking API and DeFi. I think that the composability of these smart contract calls really can't be beat by a single bank providing access to their funds and their limited resources. This is more about an entire ecosystem where all of it is open and all of it can be expanded upon from the coding side from it being open source and then from existing deployed contracts where you can cascade multiple events together. Feel free to look through, you know coin market cap or do an analytics or DeFi polls for any of these to see kind of the market opportunity out there it's kind of growing quite significantly. The, I have a few more minutes the last thing I want to bring up our DAOs, these are decentralized autonomous organizations, and I really think that this is the next phase of where this is going. The DAO landscape is already quite expansive and kind of the history of where we've seen you know the one of the earliest DAOs was with the slocket DAO and this was the creation kind of the initial view of an ICO, more or less right this company was able to do capital creation. And so within consensus we had a token foundry team that helped with ICOs right fundraising, basically using Ethereum as an open VC network in some ways, showing each of the contracts are able to be purchased and you can directly purchase from there with regulations in 2017-2018 a lot of security tokens were created and so we have also built a security token platform for a universal token that follows the regulation needed backed by the legal documents and allocations for it. From there, the birth of stablecoins and kind of the new ideas of staking even with beacon chain being kind of the proof of stake upcoming for youth to all of this has expanded in the past three years I would say you know starting with maker DAO with DAO as a stablecoin then with Comp and Uniswap creating pools and all of these other patterns. Then with the NFT craze in the past year or so I think the arts games sports general consumer world tie it to the physical world, a lot of these digital twin ideas this has come around as the phase afterwards. And now it's kind of gone back into DAO's so a lot of DAO's are starting to form where they do have very large bank accounts right these are a decentralized autonomous organization is basically a group that has a shared treasury that uses smart contracts for voting on corporate actions of that shared treasury, they issue membership tokens once you join you join some discord or no chat on discourse and start to vote on different proposals, and you figure out how to spend that money. And with that money sometimes you create a portfolio of assets there's flamingo DAO for example that has a large fund that purchases different NFTs, and then you do different types of governments voting. The next step of that is likely linking to LLCs or corporations and then hopefully in the future you'll see DAO's that are in tandem so as you have a website today with a domain of DNS you will likely have an ENS that points to a DAO, then points to Treasury and different types of allocations. I think that that's kind of the future that we're heading towards and I know that we're kind of stuck in DeFi talking right now and I think the consumer growth with NFTs will come very very soon if not already here, the DAO conversation will come after that. So with that, I'm going to hand it over to Liz, and she's going to present the next section. Thanks Clemens. If I could just take a temperature check to see among the audience, how many have used a metamask wallet. And just to get a gauge on how familiar you are with DeFi. Yeah, you can raise your hand. I think I just saw one. Okay, no. Okay, great. That's a good number. Brilliant. Okay, that's great to know. So, yeah, thank you Clemens for the context and sort of setting the stage for really what we see in terms of industry trends in DeFi. I'm going to just take that information at the macro level and dive a little more micro to discuss what consensus is doing in this space. So, as many of you may know, consensus looks at itself as a participant in the Ethereum ecosystem. We have a strategy to enable developers to build useful things on top of the Ethereum and Ethereum adjacent ecosystem. And that toolkit looks like infura and diligence truffle and metamask. So there is a host of tools that help developers both on the web three as well as the enterprise side, add useful things to the ecosystem. On the top right is what we consider user access, which so far has been predominantly retail. So metamask, as many of you are aware, has 10 million monthly active users. What we are seeing happen this year on the back of DeFi summer last year is that the space is getting increasingly institutionalized, and therefore we've expanded our capabilities to look at solutions that address the more active user solutions, solving for things like operational efficiency and compliance, really to address more access from an organization perspective to DeFi. And so what we see is an overall flywheel effect of as developers add innovation to this ecosystem. And as users get involved, we are moving from a subject trace trust based economic paradigm to one that is a more objective, mathematical based trust paradigm. And, and, and really that's why we find DeFi particularly interesting. As many of you are aware web three and access to DeFi is still cumbersome. You may use a self custodial wallet such as metamask on the more on the organizational front what we found is that users tend to move assets from a custodial device to then a hardware device to then a metamask wallet to access DeFi and this is cumbersome. It has operational risk and time consuming. And so we've looked at this quite closely and we've seen how the space is getting more institutionalized. And on the back of that earlier this year we developed a platform called metamask institutional, which is really an STK and an API built on the metamask retail wallet. So we went from an orange box to a blue fox, which addresses fundamentally three user needs. One is first and foremost, the broadest, most unrivaled access to DeFi. We have. So, so one, one metric that we look at quite closely is the monthly active users on on metamask. But the other thing that I'd like to highlight is that over the last 12 months, we've moved from, you know, access to crypto currencies to really looking at 17,000 and exponentially growing number of DeFi protocols that really have all kinds of different financial primitives. Some look a lot like what we have in traditional capital markets, but many are very novel ways at looking at financial engineering. And so we want to be able to provide that the broadest access to these financial primitives through metamask. Secondly, we address risk management and really we're talking about two things here. One is facilitating a multi user approval process in how they think about portfolio management. The second is providing a custody agnostic but yes, but yet a custodial access to this asset class. And thirdly, and I mentioned this briefly earlier is really thinking about the frequent DeFi participant, you know, for fun that is looking at multiple trades a day sometimes this process can be operationally inefficient so we're taking a multi step process down to something that is more streamlined. And so in terms of what we have built, you know, we, you know, we've seen capital allocation stacks that address really an end to end life cycle management across various asset classes. The institutional requirements are no different for for crypto as an asset class. And we really look at this in terms of six buckets. Of the six I do in the interest of time want to highlight just a couple of things that we found to be incredibly well received by the industry so far. One is our compliance capability. So, and this is a solution we built in house the ability to be able to query the health of a liquidity pool, as it pertains to access to DeFi. So we have the ability to query all the addresses that go in and out of a DeFi pool, taking into account all the different stops that may happen along the way, as we source liquidity in DeFi. And this is fundamentally different to a traditional style of compliance when you're looking at just a to B risk. In this case we are looking at really all the stops that happen. And, and we think this is a far deeper analysis in how in understanding the health of a liquidity pool before you are about to transact. This has been particularly interesting for institutional and regulated capital as they look to increase allocations to DeFi. I will highlight also that not only on a pre trade perspective, we also facilitate an ability to monitor on a regular basis, the health of liquidity pools on a post trade basis. So this is a very different construct to traditional markets where, you know, you do, you go through the compliance checks you understand who your counterparty is pre trade and then you execute and you're done in a DeFi pool it's different because the composition of the liquidity pool can change, even after you have transacted and, and that's a risk that we are aware of and want to be able to facilitate a constant monitoring of. Secondly, I'd like to highlight our capability and so this is a financial primitive that's available on the platform itself, where, you know, taking into account the more institutional execution requirements. You will notice that swap fees go from 87 basis points in the retail wallet to five for for the MMI platform, but what we find particularly interesting here is the ability to execute across all decentralized exchanges, looking for the best liquidity across DeFi. And so in combination of best execution through swaps and the compliance features we found that these two capabilities have been quite well received in the market so far. And lastly, this is something that we announced earlier last month, our partnerships with three custodial vendors. So we remain committed to providing a custodial but yet custody agnostic solution. And so we've partnered with really best in class custodial partners and custody tech partners. We understand that different tech stacks work for different segments of the market, as well as different trade strategies. And so I can, you know, shed some light into some of the integrations we have at the platform level, and also, you know, can also report that we are in discussions with other custody partners to increase the breadth of custody solutions available for organizations on the platform. And so I will just end by saying that, you know, as as someone that was formerly in traditional capital markets, I see this really exciting rewriting of of of Treadfy as we know it. So really, when you think about the the the financial market infrastructure of today, you see buyers and sellers that are represented by investors, real money as well as smart money corporates as well as banks and financial institutions being replaced by crypto funds, DeFi protocols and and dals. So, you know, I heard, I think on a podcast somewhere that, you know, crypto funds will soon be called as just funds and every fund of today, they just don't know it but they are going to become a crypto fund. And I think this is very true, given some of the points that Clemens highlighted earlier that we are seeing, you know, a rapid expansion in terms of just the availability of financial engineering, and just the sheer access that brings to players in the market. And so when you're thinking about market makers, we are moving from an extremely concentrated small number of market makers and investment banks to really an explosion of of Dex's automated market makers and DeFi protocols, improving access to financial engineering, you know, in a in a in a scale that really could not have been achieved by one particular organization on their own. It really talks to some of the boundless innovation that we're seeing getting built on top of our wallet today. And so, just, you know, going down the stack thinking about custodial access, you know, again, extremely concentrated market of today to then now being, you know, custody solutions being provided by both regulated, qualified custodians as well as custody tech providers. And so, really down the stack thinking about just at a fundamental level how things of value get cleared and settled we are moving from a framework of of CSDs and FMIs to thinking about a cryptographically secure execution and consensus layer. So with that I will stop. I'll stop sharing my screen in case anybody has questions. Great. As a reminder there is three different ways you can ask your questions number one you can raise your hand and I see Drew Tucker has his hand raised so we'll get to him next. You can also put your questions into the Q&A box and just use the zoom features for that, or go ahead and add in chat and we'll be able to answer those. Okay, so, oh, Drew did not have a question he put his hand down or maybe you answered it already. Great. Any other, any questions. Yes. Yeah, Clemens, do you want to read that question and your answer as well or anything else but the question is, can this be done through private and permissioned blockchain networks. And I think the answer is yes, I mean their digital assets that have been formed on permissioned networks today and they are right now, a lot of people are like bridging solutions and how to either have wrapped tokens or some type of asset portability or reassurance of the DAPs to multiple chains. And so just the world that we live in, you know, the network is being overutilized and so that people are looking at different LT solutions for deployment and new liquidity pools are forming around these areas. I also think that, you know, the liquidity pools themselves will likely be contributed by institutions at some point, and hopefully that will be connected together by all of this. My other comment here was that we're seeing some companies directly working with all these large major players that that you will listen in the previous slides. And that's a good thing, but it also means that they are relying on these vendors, right that their access and connectivity to cryptocurrency is now external to their core competency and so there'll be another gateway but it probably makes sense for them to, at some point, go into the hard part of thinking about how it impacts their treasury how it impacts their custodial roles and how it disintermediates some other system roles. There's a couple in the Q&A as well. Leonard Sotomayor asked outside a question what is the time range for a transaction complete. I can attempt to answer that so right so this. When you talk of transaction I mean there's this transaction at the protocol layer and you know there's there's questions of settlement finality and that is definitely being improved as we go from a proof of work to approve a stake mechanism. I can also answer this from the context of a defy transaction and in that case, it really depends on the consensus mechanism that you've agreed on ahead of time with your custodial partner. So you know as you know in the context of an organization there could be multiple approvers required for a transaction to be considered executed. There's a multi user signing M of N signing approval process at the execution layer and then settlement finality is really done at the custodial level so they will sign submit and broadcast to the mainnet on your behalf. And that's a function of which chain you're on if you're on a layer two and we've had seen many scaling solutions and layer two solutions develop this year and it's going to be a function of which defy protocol you're interacting with. I hope that answers your question or give some color as to how we look at that transaction finality. Yeah, I can also add that the benefit of blockchain is there's a lot of concurrent users that can form and a lot of parties that can, you know that don't have to be on boarded they can create wallets they can just connect to and send transactions to the same shared ledger. So a transaction completion, for me is thinking about settlement in such a way that, you know the parties that say that they own it will then, when you're looking at the same ledger, see that right so that may take multiple blocks to do but the process is processed by your consensus layer by you know the miners the validators out there with Ethereum takes 12 seconds with other types of ledgers may take less, but but note that you know this is just when you process your block when you append your database with this new block. There are trade offs of the growth of the size of your database, plus, you know, the different parties that then have to process more transactions and so I think it's been optimized within Ethereum to 12 seconds other parties have different methods of consensus and different methods of growing their their database. And it also depends on like, you know if you're using a scalability solution like rollups and then that transaction throughput looks very different. And then, you know are you thinking about privacy around rollups and so I think there's a number of variables that affect that. I have a question from Pala Bhaskar asking about permission less and permissioned. And I think. So there's this two ways to look and I'm going to take the liberty of saying there's a difference between private and not and public, and then there's a difference between permission less and permissioned. You know so so going from a private network to a public one, you know we have a number of solutions that help bridge that from a private network to a public network. Many of them are components that sit on top of our new business line quarter and blockchain services that enable that bridge. Now as it pertains to my understanding of permission less and permissioned. I think of this in the context of the requirement to have KYC liquidity pools. And so you are somewhat on boarded before you can participate in a permissioned pool. And in that case, you know we've not rolled this out but I can share that we are talking about having financial primitives on metamask that are traditional that help you literally toggle from access to permission less dexes to then access to access to only permissioned dexes for execution and similarly potentially for other financial primitives. So yes we are thinking about making it as as streamlined as possible to toggle in out of in and out of permissioned pools and permission less pools. I also added kind of to that answer that I typed in. I don't know where what but I answered it somewhere. It's just that permission and permission less network has different has different governance rules and so if you created a permission network, you would have to do checks on the data that you've created and sometimes there are other layers of privacy, for example within quorum there's different privacy groups that are created. And with that, you know you would have to check with all the participants that when you make a permission list that it's okay for other parties to download that data. The process for making a permission network permission list after you get all the checks is likely informing a group and then telling different parties about the token that is created and this is also a hard part is that permissions networks usually remove gas. So for permissionless tokens the reason why you are a validator or you're hosting shared infrastructure is because you have incentivize mechanisms for running, you know mining or being a validator or staking. And so that kind of that evolution is pretty hard. It's hard to create a proof of stake network for example out of nowhere if Ethereum or Bitcoin started off as a proof of stake network it wouldn't have worked out right you need value that comes from proof of stake. So if you run the network, any other layer twos that are connecting to ether using ether using ERC 20 fund raises as a starting point, have to have that value before they can have a token floor valuation of their protocol token, for example. And so if you have a permission token and you've you've removed gas and there's a bunch of tokens that are allocated in the Genesis file to your core creators, and that kind of messes up the economics and tokenomics of it. So in order to kind of just say oh well we were permission at work and now we're permissionless now we have all these tokens and now we have a faucet and all these things. Not many people would want to use it unless there's some type of backing of it or some way to, you know, fairly evaluate the token value. So we're going to read the question from weight shown. Hope I'm pronouncing your name right but since metamask institutional is changing from the orange fox to the blue fox does that mean that we are expecting to see a new metamask mobile app version that traditional institutions can white label for their institutional investors. This is a really interesting question and one that we think about quite deeply. So we do have. So the blue fox is a, it's not a white label solution it's really one that is really aiming to be a market aggregator of defy. I do. I do see the appeal for a white label solution that enables users from web to oh to interact with the web 30 back end, which is what metamask as a wallet fundamentally does. I do see that there is some applicability for that type of use case. Nothing that we can share publicly right now but we're definitely having discussions around that about how do we enable the next sort of, you know, next set of users that may not find intuitive the on ramp experience that is native to web 3.0. So there is a question from YouTube as well. That was put into the chat by Igor there, which do you want to take that one there's two of them let's go with the two in the q amp a first and then we can go over to the YouTube question. Yeah, I see Clemens is typing an answer to Drew's question. I don't know Clemens if you just want to speak. I think Clemens dropped. Oh, okay. Yeah, they dropped so I think he dropped me typing an answer. So he's drew his question is trying to understand how permission chains can be used as a database would love to hear how these chains potentially disrupt cloud services. Oh wow so. Yeah, now this is there are so many ways to answer this question. So, Drew, could you clarify what you mean by permissioned chains, per se, are you talking about quorum or you're talking about some other layer tools. Because the way my mental model of this is that you know you are going to require to host these nodes and so you are going to have the need for a cloud service to host. You know and usually it would be multi region, multi cloud solutions to be able to host nodes in a permissioned chain so I don't quite understand. So he just he just clarified layer two so you know let's take for example, you know, hyperledger Bezu which is the quorum Bezu client on a layer two as a permission chain. So, I think your answer is still the same right you still, you still need to host in a node. Yeah, and, yeah, and most of the layer twos. I see our permission less than therefore you know, yes, there's a less reliance on a cloud service for that but but you know you're still, you know, delegating it to a network of of nodes that then have to host that service. Yeah, it'd be interesting to see that we are speaking to certain layer twos that are permissioned, and it'd be interesting to see how they are approaching this but I don't have any more color to add on that. I think one of the other questions, Liz, that came over from YouTube right and it says how does hyperledger you know it's hyperledger how does hyperledger Bezu deal with slow speeds and high transactions of, you know, maybe you can address some of that as you know because I think it's related to you know it's kind of the layer to approach as well. Yeah, so no it's a great question so the. So there are a couple of scaling solutions that we've seen develop in the market today right so there's, there are sidechains there are layer twos there are optimistic roll ups there are ZK roll ups consensus has built their own ZK roll up, and you know, we're particularly, you know, proud of this because of the way they address both scalability but also permissioning. So, you know, I would urge you to look into, you know, our ZK roll up solution, earlier known as as sumo but now rebranded to be consensus roll ups, and that's one way that we address the scalability solution. And the second question around does hyperledger know each 2.0 will be a successful transition. Yeah I mean I think it's tough to predict the future but I think given some of the news that we are seeing happen so you know, I think last month they you know, community of developers were able to run successfully the DevNet environment to look at proof of work and proof of stake, coexisting and being able to, you know, run that transition is extremely encouraging. One of the latest guidelines we're getting is that we think the merge will be scheduled for end of Q1 early Q2. Of course I don't know any more than, than what I read on this point, but we do feel extremely optimistic about the successful merge and transition. There are two questions there around energy and. Yeah, do you want to address that or do you want to address the DeFi space one first and then go back to the. There's a question from Leonard about the carbon footprint, you know, so I'm obviously I'm not an ESG export by any means but what from my understanding is that as we move from a proof of work to a proof of stake mechanism we are actually achieving a 99.95% energy improvement. And some of the numbers I've seen point to the fact that the energy consumed by a node running for a day is equivalent to four minutes of of streaming Netflix. So, you know, I think we're going to see a huge improvement as we move from proof of work to proof of stake. And I think a lot of Oscars question is, is the same somewhat the same, which chain up, you know, I'll say, Ethereum. I'm biased there to say that. Yeah, I mean, I'll add I know there's some interesting work going on with hyperledger Bezu specifically on like nft projects like palm nft that is running, you know, Bezu hyperledger Bezu as a layer to. You know, for you know, a lot of the sustainability environmental concerns that a lot of the big players want to get into the nft market but do as well so I'll find a link and put that into the chat. And addressing Shane's question. Yeah, so I think I mean I don't think the DeFi space is immune to regulations, you know, we absolutely welcome additional clarity around regulations, we think that overall, there needs to be a framework in place that protects consumer but at the same time provides a wider access to financial innovation. I think the existing trap fight construct with all its legacy tech has become extremely concentrated and therefore is not accessible to a wider audience be a retailer institutional. So, you know, we, we continue to work closely with the regulators to achieve that goal of, you know, increased access, and at the same time protecting consumer interests, and marketplace integrity. I, you know, I, I guess the question is less about how will try to fight catch up. It's about, you know, how do we get, you know, more regular as regulated capital is moving to defy. How do we make sure that we have the right tools and framework to make sure that this regulated capital can still comply with regulations. And so, yeah, I hope that answers your question and I know there's a follow up on there's a lot of uncertainty on the legal risks in innovating within defy. I mean we, you know, we were taking a compliance first approach, we are solving for I know your counterparties KYT framework as it pertains to defy were also speaking with a number of participants to solve for things like KYC and shared an identification process. You know, I do think that as we look at next year we're going to see a far more number of solutions that address identity and compliance overall. I know there was a question in the chat so from Enrique on DAOs for collectibles and investments and do you see DAOs for investing in real estate, or NFTs representing real world assets yeah absolutely. I have to say I'm not, you know, I think the evolution of DAOs is still very early. We often get asked about how can we connect real world assets to DAOs. To me right now DAOs are at a very early stage of evolution where they really represent the crypto native corporate, as you know. But you know absolutely from a technological feasibility standpoint there's no reason why a real estate asset isn't represented by a non fungible token given real estate is fundamentally non fungible. And I know that there have been a couple of DAOs that have looked to address that and I would just, I wouldn't be surprised to just see more of that happen going forward. Which difficulty did you face in communicating Web 2. Yeah it's, it's really interesting right so you know on one hand you have an industry of fairly large regulated players that have leaned into crypto as an asset class and by that really we're talking about centralized exchanges or regulated custodians that are plugged into centralized ways to buy and hold crypto assets. And what's happened over the last 12 months is that you know defy just you know and so decentralized exchange has now become a hundred billion dollar asset class. And what we've seen happen is that even the most early adopters of crypto as an asset class are finding that you know the access to defy so I have to you know make sure that you want to appreciate the difference here. And through a centralized exchange you can buy a com token or not a token, but you can't lend or borrow or steak or, or hedge or swap these, you know, among all the defy protocols through a centralized exchange. I think there is an appreciation for just the far richer innovation that's happening in Web 3.0. We are speaking with a number of Web 2.0 players that are both, you know, in the crypto space and out to think about how do we provide that connectivity. I think there are some things that still need to be solved for like the user experience, things about gas fees and the volatility around that, you know probability of execution so there's a number of things that defy as an industry needs to solve for as it matures but you know, I'm quite optimistic that it's only going to get better. Okay, great. Any additional questions. Please go ahead and put them in the chat or the Q&A or raise your hand and we'll do a voice chat. I do have a, you know, a follow up question to your comment that you just made, Liz, which is, you know, this, this, this market is moving very fast. And, you know, traditionally financial services don't move very fast. So what are you seeing you've been in this business for a while what are you seeing is different how does it feel different. Just some some insights from the field would be fantastic. Yeah, no, thank you for that question. I think it's just so radically different right. And, and that is to be expected right so we you know in the early, in the early 2000s when we went from, you know, an over the counter style execution to a, or a voice based execution to a chat based one, or a digital form of execution. You know, it wasn't the same teams that did voice and OTC that reskilled to manage a more digital form of execution and distribution. It was a new team with a very different skill set that managed that. And then we went from 95% voice and OTC and 5% digital to the other way around. And we see that right now, even in Treadfy. And so it isn't unexpected to see that Treadfy and web 2.0 companies per se are probably not the first to make this change. It's a very different kind of user base that has leaned forward and, you know, because this is, you know, you know, it's gone through a 10x growth in the last 12 months. You know, you see funds, central, you know, exchanges, custodians, trading platforms, all try to, you know, fashion something proprietary built to manage this. And, and, and, you know, it's a very fragmented market today but one that we think will mature in the short run, because we get almost five funds a day calling us asking us for a industry wide solution that gives them access to DeFi on a daily basis at this point. And your point on, you know, re-skilling, you know, especially there's a lot of developers in our community as well, who are looking to, you know, to make sure that they have the skills needed to build the new infrastructure going forward. Excellent. There's a question on regulations. If you want to take that one very quickly because Muhammad Tari had asked that twice. And then we can go ahead and wrap it up. Yeah. So, you know, so it's, I would say all the regulators are, you know, voicing opinions on this. I mean, we just saw the guidance, I believe from the SEC out last week on stablecoins. I do think that between the OCC and the CRTC and the SEC that there is an increased engagement from all the regulators in trying to understand this place and trying to give us guidance. I think we are in a better place in terms of getting clarity, but still, I don't think there's enough. And so we'll continue to see more of that going forward. But I don't think, I mean, it's so far encompassing. You've got a technology that's affecting consumers and retail investors, and it spans from retail financial products to copyright issues as we look at NFTs, and then real estate land rights. So it's really broad at the retail level in terms of the scope of coverage. And then at the institutional level also I think it really spans the gamut of many regulatory oversight. I think that wraps it up for today. Liz, thank you so much and please do thank Clemens as well when he joins. I think it was a fantastic session. And there's, you know, as I kind of lead myself into there's a lot of opportunities specifically here at Hyperledger with Hyperledger Bezu. There's a lot of training for those of you who are interested in, you know, developing and learning more about Bezu. There's a free online self paced course that you can take, and you can enroll that via our website so the community is very open always looking for new developers users and contributors as well so please do join us. A couple of other things upcoming for Hyperledger we will be doing a workshop series on identity I saw a question in the chat actually about identity it's a very important aspect of what we're building and what we need to do. So we are actually we have some projects here at Hyperledger that are focused on digital identity including Hyperledger Aries Hyperledger Indy and Ursa as well, but we'll be doing some workshops so we welcome everyone as we get those announced to join us for like a multi hour deep dive for users and users of those projects. A couple other upcoming webinars we have two member webinars that are coming on November 10 post Italian is going to be talking about identity the path to SSI proposal from post Italian what the identity is doing in Europe with using hyperledger technologies is really fantastic so you know if you're interested in identity do come in and watch that one. It should be a great webinar. And then on December, first we'll also be doing a webinar from Splunk talking about hyperledger fabric security monitoring. And that will be another session hands on session as well from Hyperledger member Splunk. We have a lot of content available from our global forum which happened this year virtually in June. So please all these topics were addressed and many more. And please do find the sessions on the YouTube channel and let us know what you think by leaving some comments. If you have a voice to get involved in the hyperledger community. You can send us emails you can go to our wikis. We are an open community everyone is welcomed we're here to build a strong enterprise blockchain community cross multi ecosystem so please do join us. Liz if somebody wants to get in touch with you how do they go about doing that. Okay, so either by email. I'm just going to type my email address here. It's Elizabeth dot Matthew at consensus.net, or you can find me on LinkedIn, or on telegram. Handle. All right, well thank you everyone for joining us list thank you for putting your email and your Twitter. Thank you, and there is another consensus the third part of the consensus series on Ethereum mainnet is coming with Joanna pal on layer two and NFTs. This is happening as well so please do register for that or actually if you're registered for this one you'll get notification of the other one, and we look forward to seeing everyone there. Great. Have a great day everyone. Thank you, Liz. Thank you. Thank you.