 Now, one would think that, you know, the issue of defection should have ended prior to the elections in 2023, but that's not the case now. Defection's still trailing political parties. Three senators belonging to the all-progressive Congress, the APC Senator Ahmed Qaeda, representing Katsina Nath, Lawan Yahya, Kumar of Balji, South and Francis of Adonath have registered or resigned their membership of the ruling party, while Baba Qaeda and others defected to the opposition party, that's the People's Democratic Party. Kumar, on the other hand, defected to the new Nigerian People's Party, that's the NNPP. The notice of the arrexignation defection was contained in a three separate letter that was read during the plenary by Senate President Ahmed Lawan, also a member of the House of Representative from Oyo State, Mr. Shina Pella, has named Accord as his new political party. Nika Gule continues the conversation with us this morning. Nika Gule, it's good to have you join us. Here's the public affairs analyst. Thank you very much, message. Nika Gule, what do you make of the defection that is still going on, even as we get close to 2023? One would think that there should be a timeline, you know, game over, and the defection should have ended. Well, thank you very much for that question, message. Defection has come to be part of the Nigerian political landscape, and I can assure you that we have not seen the end of the defection yet. These defections are going to continue from now into the lead-up to the elections next year, and even after the elections have happened and new leaders have emerged, you will still see defection happening because some people will be on the losing end of the political divide when we get to 2023, and you will see them quickly jumping onto the winning train and positioning themselves so that they will be appointed to one office or the other. So that has become the problem, or should I say, the sample of the Nigerian political landscape that these people are defecting from one end to the other. And for me, this is why I say when people are taking positions in our politics based on parties, I tell them actually they are stupid to be taking some position because there is nothing like a party in Nigeria, there's nothing as party in terms of having a geology. You know, elsewhere, like in the UK where I live, we have two parties. You have the conservative party, and you have the liberal party, and these two parties have their ideologies. So a conservative remains a conservative, and a liberal man remains a liberal man. Because the two parties, in terms of their ideologies, you are able to know what they will respond to no matter what the issue is. So for instance, I'll give you an example. The conservative party, they want to have a small government, so there should be less taxes, small taxes, so that both corporates and individuals can take their economic decisions. The liberal party wants a bigger government, so they tax people more so that government will have revenue and deliver social welfare. So you can clearly see the difference in the ideology. So you couldn't be someone who was saying, I want less taxes on corporates and individuals as a conservative man. And then tomorrow you jump and say, oh, I want more taxes so that we can provide social welfare. That is why parties have ideologies. In Nigeria, parties don't have ideologies. People are only using parties and platforms to be able to assess power. You know, so this jumping from one end to the other of the political spectrum is going to continue. In fact, it hasn't even started. Let's see, it hasn't started. But the time will get closer to the election. That is when you will see more decampings. And then after the elections, when winners have emerged, those who have lost, or were on the losing side will still be decamping so that they can position themselves for political appointments. Well, let's look at the reason why. I mean, you have raised very valid point that has constantly been an issue on the front burner of the nation, especially when we talk about the electoral process and political parties. That political parties do not have ideology. People don't stand for anything. You can categorically state, even though you have on paper what the parties say they stand for, maybe, or maybe not, it's not communicated clearly. But that has been the argument. But you have these persons who have defected. I mean, we're talking about these lawmakers now. They are saying that the decision is anchored on the continuing and continuing crisis that has bedeviled the APC, especially in their districts, I mean, varying differently. And another issue is the issue of marginalization. They have constantly said that they have been marginalized by the leadership of the party and the government and not been considered. In words, you would hear some of these senators saying, I'm a small person. I don't have a place. But these are valid issues, right? Or should these issues not be considered by these persons who belong to these parties? I always see Nigeria as an unfortunate nation. We're unfortunate, probably unlucky, that the people that step forward to lead at various levels in Nigeria are so selfish. And they don't even hide their selfishness. Look at the reasons that these guys are profiting. Continuous crisis in the party. I am being marginalized. Some of them is talking about the fact that, oh, we promise Nigerians that we are going to deliver A, B, and C. And I can see that we are not delivering that A, B, and C. Therefore, I'm putting. Oh, we are looking at a lot of corruption in government. And I don't like this corruption. This money should be challenged to alleviating the poverty of Nigerians. Oh, we said we are going to do A, B, and C for Nigerians. And since we took power, we are not doing that A, B, and C for Nigeria. This is the reason why I'm quitting and I'm going to seek another platform to operate. We're not hearing things like that. We're hearing and marginalized. And what does he mean by marginalized? Probably they are pushing him out of the room where they are sharing the national cake. He's finding himself into one corner. Or someone is trying to actually push him out of the door. And that is the reason for him why he's deflecting. So unfortunately, these are the kind of people. These are the kind of people that we find in political office. And once they get to political office, it's about them and them alone and their families. Nothing for Nigerians, nothing for the nation. And that is why we continue to have a nation that is not doing well, but politicians are doing well. Because if we look at all these politicians, like we discuss ministers the other time, the governors, all of those who are holding political offices, if you look at their own personal economies, from 2015 to 2022, their personal economies have improved. You can even see it. They built new houses, bought new cars. The 13 children abroad, they go abroad for medical. They've sorted themselves out. But Nigeria as a nation is not doing well. So these are the kind of people we have in office that are happy to do well in their own individual capacities. We tell Bodrin that the nation that they represent is not doing well. So unfortunately, this is where we are. So Nika Gule. We can change it. We can change it because we, yes. Yeah, you have said that the fact that we have persons who are not, who don't have national conscience who are patriotic, who constantly put their interests above that of the nation's interest as the reason why we are where we are now. But some of the issues that you have, this Senator Keita has cited, for instance, as the internal crisis in the party, are you saying that that's not a reason for one to actually say, hey, I don't belong to this party. I don't want to belong to this political party. I have to take and leave. The internal crisis that he's talking about is nothing more than the fact that they are just in for power. They are just in for power. Possibly he was seeking an elective office and he wasn't handed the ticket or a candidate that he was supporting for elective office wasn't handed the ticket or he was looking for an appointment that has not come because if you ask the APC national body to say, is there a crisis in your party? They will flatly tell you no. There is no crisis in our party. There is no division in the party. You are not seeing APC faction A or faction B. You know there are parties that you have, we have a chairman, another chairman, another chairman of the same party and they are in court trying to educate who is the authentic chairman. The APC as a party doesn't have that as far as we know. So what this senator is talking about is clearly his own personal interest that he sees that can no longer be realized under the platform of the APC. And that is why he's coming out lamenting and crying. When the good, when the going was good, we didn't hear him. We didn't hear him. So this is the problem. And I'm sorry for Nigerians that follow this people to be making enemies of each other. These people don't consider us as anything. It is very tragic for any Nigerian to follow these politicians to be talking because I can assure you that this same person who is defecting now from the APC when the ground is fertile for him tomorrow, that same person is going to return to the APC. That same APC, he will return and they'll be making friends there. Do you understand? Like I'm from Benioa State. I can give you the story of my governor. My governor was a PDP man. In 2015, the PDP refused to give him a ticket. Yes. Well, Nika Goulet, I'm sure we can continue with this story another day. Thank you so much for being part of the show this morning. And thank you so very much, Merci. It's always nice to have a conversation with you. Have a fantastic day ahead. Nigerians, go and register to vote. Go and register to vote. Our vote is our power. Let's make our voices heard in 2023. And all these shenanigans will put them to rest. Thank you. Thank you so much, Nika Goulet. And that's it. The much we can take this morning on at the breakfast. Nika Goulet is a public affairs analyst. We'll be looking at the defections that have not stopped. One would think that we're getting close to 2023 and, you know, political actors, gladiators, if you like to say, would probably just begin to consider the fact that you have less time. What's the essence of moving? But the movement has now stopped. We, all of us are saying we anticipate more movement as we inch close to 2023. Now, and if you missed out on any part of the conversation, it would be great to follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram to subscribe to YouTube channel at Plus TV Africa and Plus TV Africa Lifestyle. I am Messy Ibupo. Thanks for watching.