 Hello, everybody, and welcome back to another episode of Anabaptist Respectives. Thanks for joining us today. I'm your host, Myron E.B., and I'm here in State College with Ernest E.B., and we're not related that we know of, but good to have you here and be with you. And talk a little bit today about your work in working and interacting with people who are not churched and planting churches and things of that nature. So can you just tell us a bit about your experience with studying the Bible with those people who are un-churched, and maybe just define a little bit what un-churched people, who those people are? Sure. So, un-churched people are those who have very little church experience or none at all. My first experience was teaching teenagers in summer Bible school in Arkansas about 20 years ago. The St. John Mennonite Church there has been hosting these Bible schools for many years. And then about 10 years ago, I began teaching the Bible to un-churched people over the phone. When I joined Christian Aid Ministries' Billboard Evangelism phone team, this was the first I ever taught the Bible to someone who had never opened a Bible in his life. And then about five years ago, my wife and I started having Bible studies with people from other countries. Our first opportunity came a day after some students from Sharon Mennonite Bible Institute came to our city to do evangelistic outreach. And one of these students met up with a university professor from halfway around the world who basically knew nothing about God or the Bible. This professor knew nothing about angels or Abraham or the Apostle Paul, and he assumed that Judaism and Christianity were the same religion, but he was hoping for a chance to study the Bible when he came to the United States. Ever since he was a teen, he believed that there must be a God, even though everyone around him denied God's existence. He had concluded that there was too much harmony in the universe for there not to be a God. So this student from Sharon Bible Institute explained that God is merciful and loving. The student gave the professor an invitation to a Bible study that a few of us had planned for the following day. The next morning this professor walked a half hour in sub-freezing temperatures to attend our Bible study. He paced around in the parking lot for about 20 minutes before he got enough courage to walk through the door of Sarah's Harvest Cafe and join those of us who were setting up inside. He was a bit apprehensive as he was not sure if he would be accepted in a white, Caucasian, American Bible study. Well he enjoyed himself and he walked back home after the Bible study and that evening he again walked a half hour to attend our evening church gathering. And before long he was recruiting his friends to be part of this Bible study also. During this time he and his wife were corresponding with a friend in his home country who had basically given up on Christianity. And they were asking us for Bible verses they could send her that would help her see that giving up on Christianity was a really big mistake. That was basically the beginning of my wife and I getting involved in Bible studies with the unchurched face-to-face particularly among internationals. Couple years later this professor and his friends invited us to visit them in their home country and continue teaching them there. And we were glad to do this and it was a life changing experience for our family. Since then we've continued to conduct Bible studies with a wide variety of people mostly international people and we've probably averaged one Bible study a week for maybe the last five years. As a school term I did something a little different. I offered a free class at Penn State University campus titled Bible Literacy, Read Bible Stories in Basic English. And this class is good for people who know very little English but are also interested in learning the Bible at the same time. Currently we are studying the Bible with a lady who is living here temporarily. This past winter she and her husband brought their children to our house to go sledding with our children. It was blowing snow and very cold and in spite of the cold blowing snow the first question she had when she got out of the car was to ask whether she could join our Bible studies. We'd interacted for a number of months but she was ready to begin this. A couple years before her husband had become a believer but she resisted anything religious. But now her heart was beginning to soften so of course we were delighted to have her join us and she attends every week. In the past couple of weekends we've been reading about the death and resurrection of Jesus as ascension and this has made a profound impact on her and we think she's not far from the kingdom. After interacting with a few dozen people who have interest in Bible study I wonder how many more thousands of people in America right now would be glad to study the Bible with a Christian but they have not been invited to a Bible study or they don't know anyone who offers Bible studies. So it sounds like you've been doing a lot of Bible studies for quite a period of time and that takes dedication and time and commitment and I'm sure you have a vision and a purpose. What would you say is your purpose or what sort of outcome are you striving for in doing all these Bible studies week in and week out? So ultimately we hope that those we study the Bible with will become followers of Jesus and pillars in the church. That's the end goal. The initial goal though is to introduce them to the Bible, the God of the Bible and his son Jesus Christ. We use Bible studies as an evangelistic tool. We don't convert people in the street and then start studying the Bible with them. We study the Bible with people as a way of introducing them to the gospel the good news and they can read it for themselves. This also gives them a chance to observe our lives and see the Word of God through us who are to be Jesus' hands and feet. We were surprised to learn that even before people are converted and choose the way of Christ they can help recruit others to Bible studies and they can teach others what they are learning. This has really amazed us. It shouldn't surprise us really. Jesus sent his disciples to preach the gospel of the kingdom before they were converted and before they were filled with the Holy Spirit. But it should not surprise us, I suppose, if God uses people who are coming to God to reach those who are not as far along on that spiritual journey. In these Bible studies, what sort of format are you using? Are you meeting in your homes, are you meeting in public places and what does a typical Bible study look like? I'm sure there's a variety of levels, especially as you progress through Bible studies of understanding and where to meet people's needs and where you meet them at. But just briefly describe what sort of format you're using and where you're meeting things of that nature. So we've had Bible studies in our home, a lot of them there. We've also had them in our backyard, the weather's nice. We've used public buildings sometimes. We sit in a circle and I provide Bibles for everybody in the group. I use an easy to read translation and then we take turns reading around the circle with each person reading a paragraph. After they read a paragraph, then I pause to see if they have any questions or comments about the actual text. I try to give a summary of the paragraph and then explain something that we can learn from the paragraph if there is something applicable. This sometimes generates comments or questions and discussion and that's always good. One other question I have with these Bible studies is where do you start? What do you cover? You described doing a paragraph at a time and generating dialogue and discussion. But where do you start in the Bible and what passages do you consider most important to cover first when working with these people who really don't have any exposure to the Bible? I like to begin with Genesis, with creation, then Adam and Eve's sin, the flood that covered the earth, the salvation of Noah and his family, and then the need for each of us to have a redeemer. Often towards the beginning I give students a timeline that gives them an overview of Judeo-Christian history and they really like this timeline. It helps them put things in perspective and they will often refer to that timeline then as we study the Bible in the succeeding months. Since I typically have limited time with these international people who are coming and going, I will then summarize the rest of the Old Testament and move directly into the New Testament. I usually pick the Gospel of Matthew or Luke when we start reading in the New Testament. We read about the birth of Jesus, the life and teachings of Jesus, the path to salvation, and into the Kingdom of God. We talk about life after death. For many of them they do not have any concept about life after death or are influenced by some other religion. For many of our students this is all brand new information and many of the concepts are very foreign to them. So after laying a groundwork for how to be saved and become part of God's kingdom, we let them know periodically that they can choose to be a follower of Jesus anytime. They can just let us know if they're interested in taking the next step. We don't put any pressure on them, we just let them know that they're welcome to speak more to us about that if they're interested. And we continue on with our study of the Bible. In the class, Bible Literacy, read Bible Stories in Basic English. I use a bit different format. I pick Bible Stories that I think would be good for everyone to know. So I start with some good moral stories about Daniel and other people. And then we move into more spiritual stories like souls conversion on the road to Damascus. Before we read the passage, I provide a vocabulary list of words that may be unfamiliar to them. And I may put the translation of their word beside the English word on this vocabulary list. And sometimes I'll use PowerPoint and include a picture to help describe the word because a lot of language in the Bible is not commonly used language and they might not understand it. In working with these people and all these new terms and these new concepts really that you're exposing to them in these Bible studies, what have you found to be the hardest thing for them to grasp or these biblical concepts that they've never been exposed to? What do you get the most pushback on or they really can't relate to some biblical teaching and just really find it difficult to accept and potentially implement in their lives? So that's an interesting question. There are several categories that come to my mind. One would be the bloody details of wars, murders, sacrifices, circumcision, etc. That's really hard for a lot of people to stomach and understand. And then there are the hard teachings of Jesus such as the ones about divorce and remarriage, hating family members in order to be part of the Kingdom of God, forsaking all other allegiances. Some people will lose their jobs. They maybe will not be allowed to travel internationally if they become a Christian, so this is a big deal for them. And thirdly, the idea that good people who don't become Christians go to the same eternal destiny as evil people. That's a really big issue for a lot of people. And it sounds from what I'm hearing you talk, it sounds like you're putting a lot of work and effort into these Bible studies each week. And I'm sure that getting bombarded with all these questions both in your work with Billboard Evangelism and in these Bible studies has caused you to dig deeper in your own life and really establish a lot of clarity on what you believe. And can you just walk us through a little bit some of the things that you may have been impacted in and how that's helped your your own spiritual growth and journey in working with these people and needing to come to maybe a better understanding yourself of what the scripture is saying. So yes, I've definitely been asked many questions that I'd never thought of before. And this has caused me to think and study in ways that I had not done before this. There are many times I've needed to tell those we're studying the Bible with that that's a good question. I really don't know the answer to your question. Or the Bible doesn't give us an answer to that question. That one's something that God hasn't revealed to us. I often submit a possible answer to their question for them to consider. But I'll let them know that this is just a guess that I or someone else has come up with. I find that saying, I don't know for sure. But here's one way of thinking about this. Or the Bible doesn't answer that particular question. Actually builds respect between me and the people that I'm studying with. If a person always has an answer for every question. And if the answer feels trite or forced, people start questioning the teacher's integrity. Also, if I don't know the Bible really well on a particular question, I say that's a good question. Let me get back to you on that the next time. And then I will have to go study and see what answers there are for that particular question. After interacting with unchurched people now for about 10 years, I do read the Bible differently. I often read the Bible through the eyes of someone who does not have faith. Or through the eyes of someone who has not grown up with a Judeo-Christian worldview. I try to think how a certain truth or passage could be explained to someone who does not have hooks to hang things on. Probably the biggest impact on my life is what I would call the spiritual wow factor. Seeing people who are coming to God is just amazing. There are lots of disappointments and discouraging situations along the way. But when the light bulbs come on in someone's heart and mind, and I see the light in their eyes when they start grasping spiritual truths, it's almost like a spiritual high. And I think that what I'm feeling is the real thing. Also, when people I'm discipling start repeating back to me the same things that I've taught them. Such things like, don't worry, God will take care of you. I begin to receive spiritual blessings from the ones that I've been investing in. And I begin to feel a bit of what maybe the apostles felt as they saw their disciples walking in truth. You've invested just a lot of yourself and your life really in doing these Bible studies. We may have people watching and looking on who are saying, well, that's great. There's a lot of good happening there. But they may not know how to implement that in their own lives. So what would you say to people who may want to carry out or perform the same sort of thing that you have a vision for in helping others study the Bible? What would you say to those people? Well, it's really not hard to lead a Bible study. Bible knowledge does help, of course. I do not use a study guide. I'm not opposed to using a study guide, but I haven't found one yet that's either doctrinally sound or one that's on the level of the people that I'm studying the Bible with. If you want to study the Bible with people, you need to keep trying and not be easily discouraged. My wife and I have tried many different methods of finding people to study the Bible with. The majority of people I've invited to Bible studies have not been interested. And some methods I've tried have not been very effective for actually bringing people in. So here are some things I would suggest. Learn to walk with God and be sensitive to his spirit. Be out and about talking to people and befriending people. If you're doing this, then God can more easily lead you to a seeker. My wife and I have learned that we need to be in the way. Eleazar went to look for a wife for Isaac and he said, I being in the way, the Lord led me. He would never have found Rebecca unless he was willing to go where prospective wives for Isaac actually lived. So the same is true with us. We need to be interacting with people in order for God to lead us to someone. I don't know of any effective evangelists who only talk to people who want to become Christians. Evangelists must be willing to interact with people who are not yet yielded to God and just keep one and without getting discouraged. I would suggest making up a business card or a name card that lists the services you or your church provide for the local community. You can list Bible studies as one of those things that you provide. I would suggest starting a contact list of people you meet, phone numbers, email addresses. If you have people's contact information, you can let them know that you're hosting a picnic or a spiritual activity and you have all that information and you can build on that in the future. Here's some specific things we've done that have resulted in people coming to Bible studies. There are churches and Christian organizations that offer meals for homeless people, for students, immigrants, etc. I've gone to such places, sat down with people and invited them to our house and to our classes. And we've gotten some Bible study students that way. We've hosted picnics at our house and we've had up to 75 people at one time show up for these picnics. We made up an invitation. We posted it online. We posted it at grocery stores. We had our international friends post the invitations on their email or chat groups. So as you make friends with people, they will want to help advertise whatever it is that you're doing because they like you and want to be a help to you. Our picnic program includes food and activities. Children can feed and pet our animals. We live on a small hobby farm. Sometimes we offer them vegetables from our garden. Then we have games for the children and games for the adults who want some exercise. And then after our meal, I always include a Bible presentation. I have a table with Bibles and other religious materials spread out there for them to take home for free. Also have a paper for them to sign up to get more emails from us and anything else that we're planning to do. And out of this group of 25 to 75 people that show up for our picnics, there's often a few that want to start beginning Bible studies as a result of that. So it's kind of like spreading a wide net to find a few. We have offered English classes and English tutoring. Some of these students then end up attending my Bible classes also. There are many people who will attend a Bible study who will not attend a church. But we don't just want people to attend Bible studies. Our end goal is to help them join a church, but we have to start somewhere. We have met people on our local college campus here. We've talked to them. We let them know we're here to help them. And then we've invited them to Bible studies. A couple of years ago, we started a campus organization. It's a student-run organization that allows us then to set up information tables inside the campus buildings. We can advertise all over the campus and all 700 buildings if we want to. We can use the campus buildings for English classes, Bible classes, whatever we want to along that line. At the beginning, I was telling you about the professor who walked around in the parking lot for 20 minutes trying to get up the courage to come inside to a Bible study. So if you start a Bible study or invite people to church, don't let people wander around in the parking lot trying to get up the courage to enter. Be outside and ready to welcome anybody who shows up. And by the way, it would be good for every church to have someone outside the door who's welcoming people in. I don't know how many people I've talked to or heard about who have sat in the parking lot waiting at an Anabaptist church trying to get up the courage to enter to the building. There are people who have not had an invitation to an Anabaptist church, but they wanted to attend and they've sat in church parking lots and chickened out of ever coming in all because they couldn't get up the courage to walk up to the door. So if you don't have someone outside your church, tell your church what you'd like to do. Ask your church people if you can practice on them and then you stand on the porch, the big smile on your face and welcome everybody who arrives. And then if somebody comes to your church and they're scared about entering or whatever, there'll at least be someone there that's greeting them and making them feel welcome. I read about one church that has a plan for integrating unchurched people into the church from the moment they pull in the driveway until they are a contributing member of the church. The church leaders prepare everyone in the church for this from those parking cars to those who are greeting people at the door to those who are teaching in the church or having Sunday School all the way up to those who are helping them become a contributing member of the church. So my question is, do our churches have a procedure and plan for integrating unchurched people into our churches? Or is your church one of those who ends up driving most people away from the church? Is your church a place that people want to join in a place where people want to stay? Or is your church a place that people want to leave? I think a lot of this has to do with our view of the unchurched and our attitude. Thank you, Ernest, for sharing today. And I know this is a heart, something you have a heart for and a passion for and just want to bless you in your continued work. And thank you for challenging us to examine how we are doing and reaching out to people in whatever way we are called as an individual to reach out. But yeah, bringing people to the kingdom and meeting them where they're at. And I think you've given us some good practical pointers for doing that today. So thank you for taking the time here.