 Hello everyone, welcome to theCUBE conversations here at the Palo Alto Studios for theCUBE. I'm John Furrier, the co-host of theCUBE, co-founder of SiliconANGLE. We're here for Thought Leader Thursday and my guest here to talk about the cloud earnings in the industry, and also all the mega trends happening is Turin Thacker, who's the co-founder and CEO of Datos.io, hot startup at Los Gatos, California. Welcome back to theCUBE, great to see you. Thank you, John, thank you, thank you to be back. We love having entrepreneurs come in because you guys are on the cutting edge, you're sweating bullets, you're stressing out, you're building a company, you guys are still in a growth mode, which is great, congratulations. But you're also playing in the cloud game. You're in the ecosystem, we're seeing massive visibility now into the numbers. You saw the cloud earnings just came out, Amazon continues to crush it, Microsoft, and they're bundling 365 in there, juicing the numbers up, but we all know what's going on there. But still, they're looking good. And then Google's the dark horse with really that developer platform looking good too. So the big three are popping. But Facebook just announced $10 billion quarter. They're a cloud too, not to be reckoned with, but kind of not in the pure infrastructure as a service. So clearly the market is showing that there's some stability when the second, third inning maybe of this cloud game. What's your take on the marketplace? No, I think this is an excellent topic. Thank you, John, for again having us back. Always great to be here. So the way I think about what's happening really in the cloud is sort of on three dimensions. Number one, you know, you rightly said $20 billion is what Amazon is on a run rate business of. We mostly believe it's still the first innings. It's not the second or the third. You know, they've seen a massive adoption as it called the product market fit and the repeatability with the developers, with the application developers, with the SMBs of the world. But the enterprises are just starting to scratch the surface of the cloud. We believe the cloud is in the first innings. The real- Enterprise cloud. Enterprise cloud is just big neck, just big neck, right? I was, you know, I'll give you a quick example. I was out in Denver visiting a customer which is the world's largest, one of the world's largest shipping companies. They are moving as fast as possible to the cloud, but this is their first foray. But their first foray is not five terabytes or 50 terabytes. Their first foray is 50 petabytes of data. So they're moving big time. Oh, they're moving big time. This is not a toe in the water. No, they take two years to validate it and then they go back, right? So talk about the trends here because let's tease through the numbers. I looked at all their earnings. And again, Microsoft is doing well. But remember, they're bundling Office 365 which kind of puts Google on notice because Google's got a huge presence that they could roll in. So there's a lot of number of games going on that the analysts are kind of pointing out and we're pointing out. But Amazon has just been crushing it on overall performance. Look at the compute that's going on, the scale. They've got thousands of enterprise customers. And still there's a lot more growth there because the on-prem true private cloud is still growing. It's great. So what is the state of the enterprise right now? And who is using the public cloud more and who's using it less? And why are they doing that? Is it a makeup? Is it a DNA culture? Is it just evolution? No, it's just evolution, John. I think the enterprises are finally getting latching on to this. I think they are, but they're latching on it in a big way, right? And so that's the second point that I sort of wanted to highlight that while you call Google Cloud as a Trojan horse and Amazon being the lead and then Microsoft somewhere in the middle, let's not forget about Oracle Cloud. Larry Ellison is a formidable competitive spirit. He's not going to give up. He has not given up so far. They are going to build an Oracle Cloud. There will be- Well, they have an Oracle Cloud. They have an Oracle Cloud. But you know, having an Oracle Cloud versus having really truly an Oracle Cloud. It's so funny. Larry Ellison called Salesforce a fake cloud but a lot of people are calling Oracle a fake cloud. But Oracle on Oracle, we've been in Dave Donatelli. Larry is the only one who hasn't come on theCUBE. Oracle Cloud was great with Oracle. Correct. They're trying to put the message out there that Oracle is working well with cloud native. They're in the cloud native foundation now, CNC. After you've seen Oracle amidst Avery and folks over there doing a great job. So, but they're not getting the word out. Oracle is not getting the job done because no one sees Oracle as a cool cloud native company. No, and they're not. And I think that's a very valid point. But what I'm trying, but what I'm saying is that there will be room. There is oxygen in this market to get the fourth and the fifth cloud provided. There will be specialized clouds and there will be places for that. Because Amazon is not an answer for all. It is definitely an answer for majority of your workloads. But the HPC, the high performance computing workloads, the GPU workloads, the Oracle, you look at the number one database in the cloud that Amazon claims openly is my sequel. It's not Oracle. And Amazon database business, if they're making 20 billion in total AWS, I will tell you about 40% to 50% of their business is database. And that's not Oracle. So think of five to 10 billion dollars of revenue and money that Amazon is making is not Oracle. But you know what I'm saying. What does that mean? Does that mean Oracle is losing money or as leakage on Oracle's model? Or does that Oracle still have an opportunity? Because they still control a lot of database. Thank you. And thus, you know, thank you. Thank you for asking that. It's not that Oracle is losing money. It's the next generation applications. It's the cloud native applications. So it's growth. It's pure growth. It's the new oxygen. It's the new wealth creation. So it's like the classic example when the internet started, WebTravis increased because more people are using the internet. So what you're saying is that cloud is creating more database market. And Amazon is getting a big chunk of it there. More application market. But Oracle still has the database market. For example, if you look at SAP too. And look at the third reason of these clouds. If you look at AIML, right? These applications, the Alexa, the Siri-like applications and the applications that will be built on top of this will be built in the cloud. You're not going to start building a Alexa AI application on-prem infrastructure. That is not happening. And that's the third part of this whole cloud. We say it's $20 billion. And we have barely scratched the surface on AI, ML and blockchain. And all those applications that will be built will be built on cloud elastic infrastructure. All right, so what's your take? I mean, right now Amazon's winning the cloud game. Oracle, I wouldn't call them number four, but they're trying to choose to rip it up as well. But they clearly have an install base and they're not going anywhere. Captive audience. SAP is going multi-cloud. So you're seeing SAP starting to put there, looking and saying, hey, we want our customers to run SAP workloads on any cloud. So they're clearly taking multi-cloud. Who else is out there? Alibaba Cloud's now coming to the US and San Mateo. So they're number seven cloud, but four worldwide. Right, so it means pure worldwide numbers. Alibaba's four. Yeah, so I'll start with you. Ali Cloud, you know, we talked about Alibaba. Their cloud is called Ali Cloud. And fortunately, you know, as you're building a company, as you talked about early on in our offline conversation, you get to meet all the way from government DoDs and DIs of the world too. We met with Ali Cloud executive team just a few weeks ago and they were out here in the Bay Area. Didi is the de facto car-hilling company. It's not Uber in China. We believe Ali Cloud will be that in China. There will be a fifth cloud. There will be a sixth cloud. To my point, there will be specialized clouds. Amazon is not going to win this entire pie. And there will be clouds outside of U.S. market? Well, I had a chance to sit down with Karen Liu and Dr. Min-Wen Li as well as Dr. Wong at Alibaba in China a few weeks ago. And if you look at what they're doing in China, it's not just cloud. They've got e-commerce. They've got the city brain project. They're looking at holistically around data. Absolutely. Data is fundamental to their vision. I think that's consistent with what we're seeing in the U.S. A little bit more broader scope, because IT here has a little bit more, has more legacy in China. China's got much more focus and got some government controls and then get some latitude to do the right things. But the consumers are moving faster in China. If you look at the mobile growth. Absolutely. Huge indicator. Look at the DD's growth. The DD's growth is more faster than Uber's growth, right? And they've built a massive, massive company out there. IOT is pretty hot in China. You're starting to see that. I mean, this is a reimagining of clouds. So you guys are in the middle of it with Backup and Recovery. So as a CEO, you're like, you're in your body swerving cars that are flying by you. You're trying not to get run over. You got a good market opportunity with the cloud because GEPR is coming right around the corner. This, yes. You're up against it. Absolutely. And ransomware. So what's your strategy? I mean, I'm paraphrasing. I mean, not dodging cars, but I mean, as a startup, you got to worry about, you know, your success might kill you, but how do you manage the business? I mean, how are you looking at this? Because you've got a great opportunity. No, thank you. And it's a growth market. Thank you, thank you. We were very lucky and fortunate that some of the decisions we made back four years ago, people used to laugh while going in this market of cloud-native applications. Isn't $8 out of $10 being spent on Oracle? Why would you go after that? And we're like, guys, that's today. Where the puck is going? The puck is going towards the cloud and cloud-native applications. And to answer your question, we have found a beautiful, beautiful, excellent product market fit. You know, a little bit about the company. What's the use case for that? You know, we're just classically going back up and recovery use cases built for cloud-native applications. So for example, I talked about the number one database in the cloud is MySQL. The number two database on-prem is SQL Server. Take a guess on number two database in the cloud. It's MongoDB. They just went IPO two weeks ago. Number two database on Amazon is MongoDB. Who thought that five years ago? Well, Lambda is just open source. It's driving a lot of its actions. So I'll give you an example. One of our biggest customers, which we're going to be announcing very soon, but take the liberty to share here, open table, open table. We are protecting open table. 2.5 billion documents. That's your and my reservation. That's your and my reservation that we make for a beautiful restaurant. Yeah, and if I change my reservation, I got to have that backed up. I want to bring it back. And you guys are doing that. So what's the scale of the open table ballparking? So all their entire reservation application. The whole thing. I probably won't be able to talk about the data sets. You know, but their entire geodistributed application, you could be in New York or you could be in London. And in which cloud are they using? They're all Google cloud. They're on-prem. So they're truly hybrid private cloud and public cloud. So I call that a multi-cloud and their management space. They have a ton of stuff still on-prem. They're not going to divorce away from that very quickly. What's the Google situation? Sam Ramje is over there doing a great job. Google next is coming up soon next year. Great traction, but still, people are considering Google as the white glove service because, well, Amazon's not really known for that either, but at least they have a lot more thousands and more customers than Google does. Yeah, so I think the problem is to fold, in my humble opinion, or the observation is to fold one, I think Google needs to amp up their game around cloud and cloud messaging. You open Amazon AWS.cloud website and you open GCP website, you could just see the differences. How Amazon talks about cloud, you're still selling compute storage network, but they talk business agility. What took a month for SQL Server now takes two hours. That's what you're selling, right? You're selling speed and you're selling automation, you're selling value. And you're selling orchestration, right? So I think Google has to amp up their game and amp up their game around cloud. Are they too technical, too geeky? Kind of like- Too geeky and still talking about infrastructure. Yeah, that's true. I think Sam knows that. And I think second part, which is, they absolutely need to amp up their game, not go head on and follow Amazon, find the newer applications and newer use cases where they can go ahead of Amazon. Whenever you're playing out of war, either you can follow somebody or you go establish a new base. They go frontal attack on these guys, they'll lose it. They'll lose it. They'll play the shadows. I think they can slingshot around. I think the developer traction they have even though Amazon's got strong developer traction, Google's got some goodness with stenser flow. They got some great technology. I mean, Google- But they got to stop the game of where Google go with us. Enterprises don't work that way, even though I get why they say that, because it's true at some level from an AlphaGeek perspective. But this isn't the land of AlphaGeeks. These are real people that have jobs in enterprise IT that won't transform. They're real enterprises who have real DBAs and real server admins who really care about data services. Going back to the comment- There's the shiny new toy. I need reliability proof. I want durability of this data. Don't just tell me I can get compute 10 times cheaper than Amazon. That's not what I care about. Change my, talk my language. I care about data services. I call data driven and- Okay, as you guys go out and talk to customers, give me the anecdotal view of the landscape of customers because obviously the earnings came out. We saw, again, Amazon continuing to do well, but they got some competition. We just laid in and unpacked that. Customers now see this. What's kind of the conversations in the board rooms and then in the trenches on IT and enterprise as they transform because IT's not a department anymore in the future enterprise. It's now a fabric of all things in cloud native. What are the conversations? Are they slowing down? Obviously they want to go faster. Is it a personnel issue? What are some of the conversations? I'll give you a real example. So we presented recently to a big, massive federal government agency. Cannot take their name out of the legalese. Out of Washington DC, out here in the Bay Area. Or NSA. You know, looking at the startups in the Bay Area and there was like, look, you know, while we have adopted the IBMs, the mainframes and the EMCs and the delts of the world, we also know the wealth of the innovation is here in Silicon Valley, right? So they come out once a year. And I can tell you, John, spending two hours that we did with them earlier in the week, and they are accelerating their journey to the cloud. Things that they were foreign terms like microservices, that's how they want to build these federal agencies now. Every application has to be microservice. They are not today there. I'll tell you that. They are not there, but that is top of mind for the CIA. And GovCloud is moving very fast. FedRAMP, all these services. You know, Amazon called it Commercial Cloud Service, C2S. Built for the government. And that entire team was here, and it's just one of the accident- Well, John, great job. Congratulations on your opportunity. We just talked about DATOS and IO. You guys, it's d-a-t-o-s dot i-o, if you want to check out the website. You're going to be at re-invent. You're going to come on theCUBE. We'll be there with two sets. Again, I have 50. We are doing Amazon. Love the community there. Do a great job. Amy Jassy comes on. Great Cryptorice Carlson, among others. What are you expecting to see this year at Amazon? I'll see it besides the fact it's going to be crowded. It's certainly the show of the year in terms of cloud. Momentum. They are going to accelerate the momentum. The amount of services they're planning to announce from. Because we work with the team very closely and the amount of acceleration they're showing with new partners coming on board. And the partners like us who had one customer, and now we have 20 in Amazon Cloud. You know, we just became an advanced technology partners. They understand that. We became an- So you're happy with how they're working on this. Oh, we love Amazon team. We became an advanced technology partner. They drilled us down for three months to prove themselves. Yes, Datos can run on their infrastructure. You know, they want to go fast, but they want to go diligent fast. Yeah, we love Amazon too. Of course, our crowd chat software's on their website. It's a case study using some of their great stuff. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. Thank you. Final thoughts, earnings, cloud. Where are we? This is unstoppable force. It's an unstoppable force. We're in the first innings. There's so much opportunity ahead of us and we couldn't have picked a beautiful market than what we did for you. And true private cloud, as Wikibon pointed out, turns out that's playing out on-prem activities high. Your thoughts on on-prem true private cloud. It's going to survive. It's going to survive, but it's not going to be the growth place. But Wikibon thinks it will grow with the SaaS. With the SaaS, I agree, but infrastructure. Infrastructure is not going to be growing. So that's our two cents, but we'll be back in a couple of weeks where we have a phenomenal, exciting product launch coming up. Love to. I just tweeted on Twitter this morning, 1.5 billion dollars are going to be coming out of on-premise, non-differentiated labor operations, which basically means the rack and stacking, some of these jobs are going to go away. But the growth is in automation, AI, and machine learning, and some SaaS tooling. Cloud applications. Cloud operations business models growing on-premise. And those dollars are going to leak to the cloud. Yeah, and cloud, it's all to the cloud. Turun, thanks so much. Thank you. Co-founder and CEO of Datos.io. I'm John Furrier. Here for CUBE Conversations in Pellowell. So in our studios, thanks for watching.