 Good evening, and welcome to episode 335 of the Private Property Podcast. I'm your host, Uzaman Tungwa Kumalo. It's the Tuesday edition of the Private Property Podcast, which is one of us for the first time. Welcome to the family. You are tuned into the only daily property podcast in South Africa, and we help you on all your property needs. It doesn't matter where you are on your property journey, whether you're looking to buy, to sell, to build, or of course, you're still a tenant and want to get a better sense of how you can move from being a tenant to being a home owner. This is where you can get all of your property questions answered. And to all our regular viewers on Facebook, on Instagram, as well as on YouTube, welcome back. You know how we do. Every single weekday, you and I have an appointment where I'm always in conversation with a property expert who helps us navigate our property journey. And of course, it's always a great one to also share our own experiences because property is one of those things that's a team sport. If you want to go very, very far, you want to work with people. You want to make sure that you are in the know and certainly engaging with as many people as you can. And talking about engaging, I can already see the great engagement that we're getting on our Facebook page, saying evening Zamaambu, Lema Duna, also saying evening Zama Glaturinda's watching, Gossos Romelu's also watching. And of course, many of you are watching on our Facebook page. Do show us some love down there below. And of course, you know that on our Facebook page, we're running an incredible competition that started off with us setting the ambitious goal of wanting to reach one million followers on our Facebook page, which we have done thanks to you at home. And of course, we also set out to have 10,000 comments and shares in the post that we've pinned on our Facebook page. We've also exceeded that. And we're now taking it up and not want to have 20,000 comments. I don't know we can do this, right? If there are a million of us, now it's over a million of us in this family, we know that we can certainly reach and exceed that 20K target that we have set out for ourselves. And using the chance at home of walking away with 500 grand in cash when you participate. And all you have to do to claim the money is to be watching us live every single day, halfway through the show. We're going to announce who the lucky winner is and you have until the end of the show to raise your hand in order to claim the prize. If the person doesn't claim the prize while we're still on, then it rolls over into the money bag for the following day. Now, yesterday we had two winners. Unfortunately, only one, Semi-Malatze, whose birthday it also was, claimed the prize. So this evening we've got a thousand rands in the money bag. So if you know you've entered, you want to wait to see if we are going to call out your name. That's some of the, so certainly some of what you can look forward to later on on the show. And of course later on this evening, what you can look forward to as it is a Tuesday in Balinuago, bringing you the farming podcast at 8pm. And you can also catch it every single Thursdays with the same show, where she always takes us through all things agriculture. You know, it is now spring, spring is sprung. I'm also doing quite a bit of gardening and growing my own veggie patch, as you've seen on my social media platforms. You can follow me there at Zamanthoma underscore K. So also getting great tips from Mbali's show about how I can do a better job at it, especially because I want to be able to eat some of the food that I grow. So that certainly is a great show that I'm always plugged into. And of course, every Wednesdays is the class in Texas through the first time homebuyers show, which is always in conversation with people who've not only walked that first time homebuying journey, but have gone on to grow their property portfolios from strength to strength. And Mondays and Fridays, Chad hits us with an amazing, amazing preview of incredible properties that you can find on www.privateproperty.co.za. And they're so exquisite. Now, I often say that I wish I could do one of my shows in some of those properties. And I think we'll see. I think we must arrange maybe episode 350, you know, have a small little dunyana in one of the great properties that Chad gets to see. But those are the great shows that you can find every single weekday at 8 p.m. across private property social media pages. And of course, do follow us across our social media pages through on Twitter, on Facebook, we're linked in. We're on Instagram, we're on TikTok. If there's a social media platform, we are certainly there and catering to all of your property needs. And talking about those property needs that actually, you know, leads us to our conversation this evening, which I am very excited about because this is one of those things that I, you know, follow very closely. I, you know, part of my portfolio is some of the businesses I run having interests in this particular topic. So I always love talking about it. And this evening, we're looking at why you should consider investing in student accommodation. And if you're in the student accommodation market, I want to find out from you, you know, are you an investor that's got whether one or more units in student accommodation? And if you don't, is it something that you're interested in? You know, what is it that you still unclear about or wary of when it comes to student accommodation as part of your property portfolio? But to help us better get a good sense of, you know, what we should look out for. And even the state of student accommodation right now, I'm joined this evening by Liesl Brits, who's the head of Broken at Mid-City Property Group. Liesl, good evening, and thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much, Zoma. Zoma, good evening. You know, Liesl, I think one of the big things before we even look at, you know, do's and don'ts and tips for people who are looking to explore getting into student accommodation and some of the great reasons that I know that you're going to share. I think, Liesl, let's just look at an overview of, you know, the state of student accommodation, the state of student accommodation market in South Africa, especially in 2021, given that we're in a pandemic year. I mean, I was even saying to you off air that I've spoken to quite a number of different landlords who have student accommodation units from last year. You know, even this year, and obviously they're all sharing their experience of how they've navigated lockdowns and having to, you know, students leaving. So currently, when we're looking at student accommodation markets, certainly from the area that I know that you're primarily in Pretoria, what would you say the state of, you know, the market is this year? Yeah, it's true that last year actually was really bad. And I think the biggest thing, the major damage that were caused to the market was the uncertainty. We were so uncertain on when NASFAS would be paying. We were so uncertain on when students would be returning. So that besides the financial damage that a lot of landlords have incurred due to that. But there are also some of the landlords that actually benefited from that, especially if you had a NASFAS accredited building with your Fundi system installed. Most of those landlords actually collected those Fundi cards from the students and they were actually swiping, while sitting, watching Netflix. So, and they had empty buildings and they actually took the opportunity to upgrade their buildings and to actually take the time to make sure that the buildings are ready for the next intake. And I think what has happened was the academic year that was stretched up until end of March this year. If you didn't have the cash flow at the end of last year, it would have been very difficult for you. But this year, the academic year started in April and it's obviously ending in November. So your concentration of money that are coming in now, you can actually cover the loss that you've had. But it is true that a lot of the landlords have huge cash flow setbacks. But still for you to consider to get back into the market, we are still not very certain on what's gonna happen next year, but what we do know is that the psychological damage for students has not only even just students, but any employee that are actually working from home now, the psychological damage that are caused are actually long-term so bad and all the institutions actually realize that it's impossible for a student to actually study from home without support, without fellow students around them. And if we just look at the circumstances that we have in institutions like TUT, those students are actually from rural backgrounds. They do not have electricity, they don't have Wi-Fi. It's not safe for them to actually sit with the laptop that they've been given granted from government. So they have to return back to campus. They have to come to these off-campus accommodation where they have Wi-Fi, where they have suitable accommodation with furniture and the support with transport to classes and that. So student accommodation will, I think, people ever be very, very popular and in the mall. And you know, one of the big things that, and I love that you've highlighted is that in as much as a lot of the universities have moved to online learning because of COVID, we also know that students need an environment where they're able to learn. So the fact that they're no longer going on campus doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't going to be a demand for student accommodation. It may be slightly different. And if anything, perhaps there might even be an instance where with certain universities, I mean, we haven't seen that yet, we might perhaps see that in the future where student enrollment figures increases because now it's no longer about having students physically come into class because capacity was often not only from a staff perspective, but also from a lecture theater has 500 seats. Therefore, you cannot suddenly enroll, for example, 1,500 students for a particular program. And I think with certain universities, I know they're even exploring some kind of hybrid model for the future where they can also increase the staff compliments so that they're able to deal with the bigger volume of students who are potentially going to access their courses. Meaning that we're still going to have a demand for beds because one of the things that we knew pre-COVID was that there simply weren't enough university beds in South Africa to cater for the number of students who needed them. And this was even with the residences, the university residences, and of course the private residences. So there was still this huge gap that needed to be filled. And I know that for example, the Department of Higher Education always emphasizes those specific numbers when we would have enrollment at the beginning of the year. So it really is one of those pressure issues that was a ticking time bomb in many ways because we always used to see the long queues with students requiring student accommodation and it really is a crisis. I think if anything, what COVID has now allowed us to do is to also just get clear on the kinds of services we need to be providing to students. As you were saying that it's about the environment but it's also making sure that they have the right amenities for them to be able to work in the student accommodation versus for example, if they are at home. I want to find out from you at home if you are in student accommodation, how was your student accommodation unit or units affected during COVID? And how did you recover? Because I think one of the great things is of course learning from each other and seeing what other people were doing. I know that there's some landlords who when students went out, they started taking in young professionals for a shorter period because students said, look, we're going home, we don't know what's happening and with some university school was suspended for a little bit. And as these already pointed out, the academic calendar kept being stretched and stretched and stretched. But we're also now getting used to, I'll say life in COVID and having to adapt to it. And so making the decision around going into student accommodation becomes so crucial. So for people who are considering going into student accommodation because they're seeing the potential, they can see that, look, there's a shortage and there are properties on the market that are closed to universities or in university towns as we call it. I think what would first just be the key thing that they need to bear in mind when it comes to student accommodation that would be different from if they were just doing a normal rental, let's say to a young family or even a young professional. So I think on a smaller scale, and I always, Brucey Timberwyer's video for the chicken farm where he actually coaches people that come to get funding is to stop small. And I see that often when potential investors approach us that they actually wanna jump for the really big boldings immediately. And it's actually very dangerous to start off with a massive building and try and, besides the fact that you, the possibility for you to get funding on a massive building, a commercial building, it's actually good to start with a single residential flat and in a good building close to a university and just rent that out just to get into the industry, to start learning about the behavior of students, the, you know, their needs, your, you know, the big time tables, the fact that you only gonna get income for 11 months. What do you do in your 12 months? And some of the university only pays for 10 months. And there's often the uncertainty about, you know, why do we get 11 months versus 10 months? Like you'd be normally students come in in fifth and they leave in November. So that's a 10 month cycle. Whereas with QUT, they always come in in January because they come from rural areas. So they need time. So NISTAS actually also pays them on a 11 month cycle. So that's actually very beneficial for any investor to be paid over 11 months. So you've just gotta like sacrifice that one month and prep them for the next year's intake. But like I've got my own properties as well and you've got the choice to either finish your properties for your students. The good thing about your single residential flats and taking on students on a small scale is you don't have to adhere to all the red tape. That's a larger building with let's say a hundred and students or beds minimum. The minute you get your building accredited for NISTAS then obviously you've gotta adhere to all the red tape. You've gotta go through the accreditation process. You've gotta pay all those fees. You've gotta get wifi in your building. You've gotta get security on each floor and you have to have laundry, transport, all of that. So I've got clients that actually invest in three bedroom units and they place students like six ladies in a flat. They do pay the body corporate a little bit more for the extra water consumption which I respect a lot because in a sense we see six adults or students occupying a three bedroom flat as overcrowding. So some of these investors are actually very good in terms of collecting an extra hundred grand for the water and pay that for it and pay that over to the body corporate. And then they furnish the properties. They put a washing machine apparently that's a big draw card for the lady, the female students and they collect two and a half thousand grand per bed. So that's pushing the income. You're getting double what a normal in like my properties I'll get six and a half where if you put four students then or six students you get triple that a month which is actually good. So starting on a small scale to just learn about students and how they behave and then specific needs are actually what I would advise people to do and I think banks also like to see a portfolio with students that you can prove yourself as a very responsible investor. Instead of coming in trying to buy a building a housing 50 students or a hundred students and taking a chance because this is not a Takama chance type of industry. You've got to be a very risk free to the banks to consider you as an investor why would the bank take the chance on you if they can maybe finance investor with a lot of experience with specifically student accommodation because it is a risky industry. Just as the investor himself would be a risk but also with Nisfus and everything that has happened with COVID is an extreme risk to the banks now because they have their fingers with certain investors that could not carry themselves throughout this period. So it's as if most investors are actually we are yearning to get our buildings accredited with Nisfus because it's less risky but we see now especially with your UP students that that was not the case. That they've left the buildings, we fled as landlords and the banks do not want to take that risk. So it's commercial properties where we used to be getting finance on a 70% loan to value. Now we are backing to get a 50% to loan to value. I'm this evening in conversation with Liesl Britz who's the head of Broken AdMid City Property Group and we're looking at why you should consider investing in student accommodation. I want to find out from your home if you're investing in student accommodation how was it particularly or rather how is it? Particularly now during COVID and I mean it's the second year of us living in COVID would have had an opportunity to somehow plan for more lockdowns and adjust the way that you're running your business relative to last year when it of course hit us without any warning whatsoever. We're gonna go for a quick break and see who the potential lucky winner of that 1,000 rands this evening for our competition is. I hope they're watching so they can claim their prize and when we come back we'll certainly get to the questions, comments. I see all the love that you're showing us on our Facebook page. We'll get to those in just a moment. And the winner this evening goes to Vyasha Naidu. Vyasha Naidu, if you are watching, I hope you're watching drop us a message down here below to claim your money, 1,000 rands is in the money bag. So you send a chance of walking away with that 1,000 rands. That's Vyasha Naidu. If you are tuned in, then do make sure that you drop us a message in order to claim your prize. Now I saw a few new names that gave us some love on our Facebook page earlier on. Adelaine Bloom-Pelé is watching Megan from Skalvake, is also watching Doomsa Asimanyi is watching and of course showing us love on our Facebook page. Refuelue Malibuana, I see you there on Facebook and of course the regulars, who is a Vyasha Peléchi as well as Colin Janssen, Fatima Simji and Doomsa Pelé are also watching Keep The Love Coming. There on our Facebook page, we absolutely love seeing it. And of course if you are in student accommodation, I want to hear your experience with the student accommodation market, especially this year, have there been any adjustments that you needed to make to be able to essentially plan for the reality of operating in COVID and knowing that perhaps you may not have as much demand because there are still some students who potentially didn't want to come live in student accommodation places or parents who didn't want their kids to live in student accommodation places? Or were you one of those landlords because I've also heard landlords saying, look, my place stayed 100% occupied and if anything, even after full occupancy, I still had students wanting a place and contacting us wanting to get a bed. So if you're one of those, what are you doing right? I think do share with the rest of us so that we can get those notes. Now, I think when we then look at, and I love that you've highlighted this and I want to bring it back, if you're going or when you go into student accommodation, similarly, really to any other kind of property class that you'll go for, you do want to start small. You don't want to start with the building that's suddenly gonna have 50 beds and you're thinking, oh, I'm going to gross 200K if I have 50 beds and I'll maybe net 180, these numbers look amazing in a year. I'll definitely be nearly a millionaire because it doesn't work like that. I think anybody who's managed even one unit understands the value of learning from that one unit and it can be something as pedantic as putting in systems in place for that one unit maintenance for that one unit managing that one unit and so on. So you don't want to bite off more than you can chew. And I think the fact that Lisa has even put out that banks are also now even more wary. So by the time you're wanting to look at 50 units, they do want to get a sense of, have you done this before? And then I'm going to extend that line of credit to somebody who hasn't even managed two students for instance. So you really do want to make sure that as you're navigating wanting to add student accommodation or perhaps start off with student accommodation, you start off in small sizes because you don't want to bite off more than you can chew. And now Lisa, when we even look at biting off more than you can chew, I think one of the big things, of course, there is around finances. And I think people sometimes don't have a sense of how student accommodation can sometimes cost you slightly more in certain areas than perhaps a normal apartment that you might rent out to, or even a normal house that you might rent out to a family or a young professional. Perhaps just take us through what you should be budgeting for and how you should look at budgeting around when you have student accommodation units. Sure. Yeah, I mean, experiences on the one side is something where we just have to bite the bullet because with student accommodation, you've got the red tape and you've got all the list of requirements, especially if you're going to go specifically, and I'm having a lot on QUT specifically. I'm not even looking at UP at this stage because they have a lot of student rates available in the Hatfield specifically in Pretoria. So I wouldn't say, I wouldn't recommend to any newcomer to the industry to specifically go for Hatfield because Hatfield is actually saturated and we've seen a lot of the students or landlords bleeding there because of the fact that only 25% of the students at UP are actually funded by Nespas. So that gives you an idea of 75% of those students actually went home and they're studying from home now. So we're not too sure if they're gonna return next year. We can't have that guarantee. However, due to the psychological damage, we hope that they do return. But one thing that we do know is that 98% of the students of QUT are actually on Nespas accreditation or they get the Nespas grant. So they have to come back to the student accommodation and the rest of campus here in Pretoria. And we're talking about the areas, Arcadia, Sunnyside, Central, Pretoria, West. So we are quite certain that they definitely will return. So as I mentioned, you have to prove to the bank that you can actually, you can sustain the student accommodation and that you will be able to recover and pay your bond. So expenses on the one side is something that we will have to do. So at QUT, it's expected from you as a landlord to provide transport, expected to provide wifi uncapped at a certain speed. It's, you have to finish your apartments and you have to maintain that as well. It's not like you're buying a microwave and it's now there and you don't have to replace it. Students actually break things and students actually use things and they sleep on the beds and you'll have to replace beds. You'll have to pay your insurance. You'll have to, as I mentioned, to transport. So if you're not close to a bus rapid transit route or you can't piggyback on an existing route system, you'll have to get your own buses. You'll have to get insurance on those buses. So it actually accumulates and we've done the calculation on these expenses. You've got to pay yourself for a minimum of 40% on that income. So at the moment, the income is 4,100 per student for 11 months and you have to budget for a minimum of a 40% on that. You have to provide electricity. You've got to provide water. You have to provide the laundry services. So we normally put measurements into our own buildings to prevent, you know, obviously students that are often abused the system where they put in too many, you know, their friends come over for a shower, they cook there, they sleep there. So you've got to have a proper system where you control the access to your building. It's also a nice local system for the university. So if a student is not clocking in at university, they will come back to you as a landlord to check if the student they've actually been to the building, what have they worn, lost. So you've got to have a CCTV system at your building as well for the safety of the students as well. So you've got a budget for at least a 40%. So your expenses on the one side is one thing but you can't afford to have vacancies in your building. So we often walk with investors through our own buildings to show them and we actually tell them exactly what mistakes we've made. So we try and teach investors to not make the same mistakes and what to expect more or less in certain buildings, especially if you've got a mixture of students between different universities, like your UP students don't wanna mix with TUT students. Whereas your TUT students wouldn't mind mixing with any other institution students. So you've got to prepare yourself for things like that as well. But just back to the vacancies, you cannot afford to have vacancies in your building and with any business, like if you think about how many secondhand call dealerships we've got, if you look at all the salons, we actually, the market will never be saturated with salons. But if there's a salon with a better offering of specials or a new product or a new service or whatever, we go for it. I think student accommodation is very sensitive in terms of location. So you'll funny enough find students that don't want to be close to the main TUT campus. They actually wanna be in the bus in sunny side, closer to the clubs and that. So you wouldn't, I would think that I would want to be close to the main campus where I study, however the students actually prefer both. You'll have some students that prefer to go into a building with a lot of rules and regulations and other students actually want buildings where there are no rules and regulations. But you'll also have a failure rate in that specific building. But I think if you think about the needs of a student and I mean, I studied at TUT as well a long time ago and I was fortunate to study on campus. We had a house committee in our building. We had like a house mother and father, like a caretaker in the building. We were close on campus and we had sport activities. We had beauty pageants, we had socials, we had church outreach. Now if you look at the student accommodation rates of campus, the private accommodation, they actually don't provide that. And if you want to stand out as a landlord, a very successful landlord without any vacancies, you have to look at what the students on campus are being offered and try and present that into your off-campus building. So if we just look at the connection with on-campus activities, like your sport activities, you can maybe partner with other off-campus building landlords and say, let's form a soccer team amongst our buildings and we provide transport for those boys to go and compete with the on-campus race soccer teams. Let's create a sobriety ceiling in our buildings where we create this opportunity for them to actually have their odds displayed on the walls. Let's provide a wall for them to take pictures of their social activities so that they create their own alumni so that they can come back in a few years' time and say, this is what we had. There's my picture, I belong to this family. You can actually be so creative because how I see the buildings, you have a building full of clients. Let's say you've got a building with 400 students. Those are actually clients that are potential car buyers. They are potential first-time bank account clients for a bank. They are potentially taking out a cell phone contract. So you can actually invite the service providers to your building, give them a nice space and a spot when the students are coming in with their Kazebo. They can present their products and services, but you want something as a landlord back from them. You're giving them that advertisement so they can maybe for all our graduating students give us free cell phone or open a bank account with a 5,000-rand savings account for the bank that is an amazing opportunity to catch that student at a young age. I've still got my standard bank account that I opened at university. I continually remember I went to a Kazebo and I opened my bank account there. So it's a massive opportunity for service providers to benefit, but it's also for you as a landlord to benefit. Let's say you get VOTACOM in. They can sponsor your students' t-shirts and caps with your building's name printed on the back of the shirt and that's your working advertisement on campus to ensure that the students are actually coming back and they feel that they belong. They've got this pride that they're in a building with a nice name. So that's the first advice I would give as well. If you've got a big student accommodation building is change the name. Some of these buildings have the most boring building names and you can actually give them a nice name like Mazapuka or Majuba or something like that. That's completely more relevant and painting different colors for you to stand out. And if you are planning on buying more than one building, give it a signature. Change your signage and make it your signature like city property, all their buildings have the same signature outside. Mid-Cities buildings all have the name the edge. So we'll have flowers edge and festival edge and campus edge. So that makes you stand out as the landlord and you'll actually attract the students to want to come and stay in your building. And I think, you know, one of the things is definitely clear, Lisa Liz, that we're going to have you back on the show to look at student accommodation best practices and even to share some of the mistakes and learnings, I think, as you know, Mid-City that you've picked up, you're saying earlier that this is something that you even do for investors who are keen on getting in the market because one of the things that we also know about property is we want to all succeed, right? You want the different buildings in the block to also be fully occupied, you run well as opposed to being vacant and potentially end up being run down. And so really it is in everybody's best interest when, especially if you look at the university towns when as different landlords, we are running our respective, you know, buildings or certainly accommodation units while and servicing our students well. I want to share a quick comment here coming through from Usain Mahlantzah on Facebook saying, I'm one of those running private student accommodation and last year and this year it has been tough for us, but with the little number of students we are having it is better to keep our expenses covered till we can go back to normal life. But with the number of COVID-19 declining and people getting vaccinated, we have hope for the next year, even though some TV colleges already saying they will only have two trimesters that is only putting us in a very bad condition. And I think, you know, it is one of those things as I said before that a lot of the landlords are also just wanting to at the very least cover their faces. I think student accommodation it was one of those areas of property where you enjoy very high yields. And then I think for many years landlords have typically have, you know, enjoyed higher yields. And now you're having to say, okay, let me at the very least cover my expenses just so I can stay afloat and weather essentially this COVID storm. Liesl, before I let you go this evening because I know that we've already run out of time, what final tip would you give to somebody who's still considering potentially getting a student accommodation unit particularly now? So they're probably obviously going to purchase it for, we'll say for the next year because it will probably only register of course later on in the year. So they've got their eyes set on, you know, owning that first student accommodation unit for the new year. What tip can you give to somebody who is still eyeing? So they're not in yet, but they're still considering getting into the student accommodation market. So I think if you wanna go for the big buildings, if you've got the capacity to go for the big buildings, I think you definitely have to put in a lot of effort in your marketing. Because in the end, the student can still choose where they want to go and stay. And the intake is normally, and we're expecting it to be in Fed next year as well. So you have already got to start now with your marketing campaigns to get your building out there. So if you're gonna go for a missed house accreditation, the TUT is actually starting, they're opening up for accreditation now in October. So you must be prepared to have your building ready and to have your apartment, your mock-up apartment furnished so that when those accreditation team come out to do the accreditation and the inspection, you've got to be ready for that. You can't be caught with your pants on your knees and be too late. Because if you miss it this year, you've got to wait until the next year. So marketing is the major thing. You've got to be out there, you've got to make sure that your gazebos are ready for January, when they sit there at TUT, you've got to have your online exposure, but that's with anything like that. If you don't have an online presence on social media platforms and that, you can't expect the students to actually know about you. Because your building, once it's accredited, will go on, they've got a new website, T-R-E-S. And then there's the TUTechRES website as well, but T-RES, this is a platform where students can actually comment on your building, they can complain about your building and they can actually also compliment you as a landlord. So getting your building ready for that website and your social media platform to get the word of mouth out there, that's certainly one tip that I can give to all landlords out there when you start to get that fixed from the start. And network with people, network with the SRC, network with the different companies out there. If you're going to start in the industry, learn from whoever has done it, learn from their mistakes not to burn your fingers because student accommodation is actually so risky that it can wipe out your complete portfolio if you make mistakes. Because if you've got a big building and your building is not on the T-R-E-S website or something like that, you've got a 100% vacancy and that can floor you as an investor. Start small and do your marketing. And I think that's such a great note to leave it on. Start small, learn, rather, pay your school fees with one or two units, then buy two more than you can chew and then paying the kind of tuition you absolutely might probably not even be able to recover from. Lisa, we're going to leave it there this evening. I'm already calling it, we're definitely going to bring you back on the show later on this year because we want to be able to get a sense later on in the year on what people already are in student accommodation should be doing. I mean, you've already highlighted one is that you want to start marketing early. And I know already towards the tail end of the year, it's already a good place to start marketing as early as then because there's still students who want to confirm their accommodation before they actually go back home over the December period. And so not everybody is going to be searching for accommodation in January. Some actually want to have already viewed and decided before leaving. So later on in the year, we're definitely going to bring you back to get a sense of what we should be doing in the event where we have student accommodation units to get ready for the new financial year. What should we have in place? And if we don't have it in place now, what are some of the systems that we need to put in place? But for now, we're going to leave it there. Lisa, thank you so much for joining us on the show. Thank you, Zama. Thanks for the opportunity, good night. And that is Lisa Brits who's the head of Broken Admit City Property Group, bringing us to the end of this evening's private property podcast with myself, Uzaman Dunwoa Kumalo. Now, the team has let me know that unfortunately, Viesha Naidu has not claimed the price. So it will be rolling over tomorrow to 1,500 rounds. Remember, if you know you've entered, you want to make sure that you're watching us live because if you call your name, you have to drop us a text in order to claim that price. Well, I will state my welcome. You can of course, look forward to Mbali Noir on the farming podcast at 8 p.m. I'll be back on your screens tomorrow at 7 p.m. Until then, hoping you're staying home and staying safe.