 One of the best things that we offer people is our free 30 days coaching where we provide you with very easy to read through and to assimilate information on a variety of subjects that cover wellness. We went through all of our episodes all 500 and took out the ones where we cover particular topics and timestamp them. The way you get access to this is you go to mindpumpmedia.com and just opt in. It's absolutely for free. Go get it if you want to pump your body and expand your mind. There's only one place to go might pop might pop with your hosts. Sal DeStefano Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews. So Paul check probably one of the most for me personally. I don't know if you guys feel the same way influential people that I've met in the fitness and wellness sphere but also just he's an outlier just in general. You know what's interesting before I ever met Paul and before I ever really dove into his you know his courses and classes and teachings. I would always hear people talk about Paul check and the check Institute and the holistic lifestyle coaching you know you know programs on stuff and what used to turn me off was the almost if from my end it sounded like this cultish fanaticism right like it was everything and he was God and this and that and that's not what they said but it felt like that for me and part of the reason and looking back and be objective is I'm just a very skeptical individual but after meeting the guy and going through some of his stuff I can see why people follow him so vehemently why he's so impactful. The guy from a wellness standpoint I can't think of a single human being I've ever met in my entire life that encompasses the entire sphere of wellness as much as him from an accurate perspective. He's drawn all the lines to get all the dots connected. It's pretty fucking mind-blowing like he's not pretentious at all he's not dogmatic in the negative. He's very polarizing that's what causes people to be that way. He's polarizing because he's polarizing the way we would be. He touches all the third reality. It's uncomfortable. Yes it's like if we were talking about barbell squats to a world of people who've never done barbell squats we would come across as dogmatic about barbell squats because we know how awesome they are for example. I'm using a silly example but and so Paul talks like that a little bit and he does go all over the place with the way he covers things but the man is absolutely brilliant very very highly intelligent guy. I can't believe how much information a knowledgeist guy knows from like I said all aspects of wellness so we had him back on the show. We interviewed him again. We had him up here at Mind Pump Media did some film some video with him. We got to hang out with him a lot longer which was cool. Got to hang out with him a lot longer. Had another great episode with him and I mean the guys fucking I mean mind blowing whether you agree or disagree with him like just listen to what he's saying and how he's saying it and you'll probably get something earth shattering out or I mean out of it. He's again I can't say enough about the guy. He's just he really encompasses that entire you know wellness sphere. His Czech Institute courses are pretty amazing. Everybody I've ever talked to who's done it really really enjoyed it. It was mind blowing for a lot of the people that we respect. I know Dr. Ruscio that was his first introduction into wellness was taking the holistic lifestyle coaching. Most smart people we've met. A lot of them are attached to Paul Czechs. It's pretty amazing so you know we're talking in this interview and we've covered a lot of really cool subjects. I think this episode for those of you that love the first podcast with him we're going to absolutely love this one as well. It's really awesome. Also we talked to him a little bit and we wanted him to be able to offer our listeners a way to be introduced to his courses and what he talks about and so what he's doing and he's never I don't think he's ever done this before is you can actually get access to the holistic lifestyle coach level one program. A huge discount for the whole thing. Normally it's like 347 dollars. You think you're the whole whole program for $197 and it's that's going to be valid for a week from when this episode air. So I think June 4th is the last day you can get access to that. What you do is you go to checkinstitute.com forward slash mind pump HLC. Let me spell that out. Check is CHEKinstitute.com forward slash mind pump HLC and you'll get that fat discount. All this will be in the show notes. I believe it's all going to be in the show notes as well. So here we are talking to Paul check again part two. I'm alive and hot with the man himself. Paul check. If you don't say so yourself. The holistic gangster. That is a badass shirt right there. Thank you guys. By the way I had it was quite amazing this morning to see someone make that comment and then come here and you give me a shirt with the holistic gangster on it. I felt what was the other one they called you. Well you definitely earned that title. Let him finish. He was trying to say how impressed he was as fast we were on our business game like that. That's Taylor over there. The other one was the Zen meathead. I like those. I like those. That's the follow-up shirt. Yeah. Well you know they can all be conceptualized into beautiful things which is great. How was dinner for you last night. I loved it actually. I ate too much but you know what are you doing you're in a situation where the food tastes so good that the experience of eating is one of the things that make you happy you are a human being and so I was happy I was a human being last night. So thanks again. What a great topic to kind of start on is learning to find that balance between eating what's healthy and what's good for our body then also enjoying you know memories and opportunities and creating memories and opportunities like that. How do you teach when you teach someone and you're talking to them about the relationship with food. How do you start that conversation in that direction. Well I started with the food itself and anyone that wants to join me I invite to join because oftentimes people see me with my head down looking strange and I'm I open my heart chakra and I connect to the food and I say thank you mother universe thank you mother earth thank you spirits of this beautiful food it is with great love and respect that I bring you into my being would you like to join me now and body mind and spirit so that together we could make the world a better place for all living beings now and in the future oh peace amen and I wait and if the food spirits say yes we're into your mission then I get a big surge of energy like like like when someone hits you with a bucket of cold water and your hair stands on and it's that kind of uprising if there's something in the food for example that might be harmful to me then there's a signal that pulls the energy down for example I travel on the road a lot when I sometimes have something handed to me in a restaurant or like a whole foods all of a sudden my my soul will tell me don't eat that or the food spirits themselves will not give me the yes we want to join it's like they know they're going to cause trouble what's paul what's that voice sound like is it like a sexy hot woman talking to you no you know it's you can hear the voice but the voice is always some rendition of your own psyche I mean what's you know what's interesting about this is I'm sure some people are listening going oh gosh you know you're talking to your food but you know it's you know it's funny about this is if I'm imagining I'm doing this number one I'm slowing down I'm paying attention to what I'm eating yeah I'm respecting the fact that I'm about to eat so that's all the stuff that's happening and I'm less likely to eat a pop tart if I did that like imagine doing that in front of a pop tart you'd be like all right well I guess this pop tart is not worthy of this time I'm spending to eat it you see what I'm saying it's almost like it helps that decision process along the way there that's true and I can also show you the flip side of that coin because as a guy who's traveled the world you know lecturing professionally non-stop for about 22 years up to about four years ago when I just had to take a break but there was many many times that I could not find anything that met my bottom standard of what I wanted to put in my mouth it was either starve to death or eat from some fast food place in an airport and I haven't eaten in 14 hours or something and so what I do then is I open my heart to the food and I know that the food that we're eating in places like that was raised in nasty environments you know farm raised animals commercially raised animals commercially raised plants toxins and whatever and so I connect to the spirit of those plants and let them know that their life was a life of purpose because those plants to me are like people living in third world countries that don't have food or water and they're starving to death and there's you know something like two billion of them on the planet so I don't want to ignore those beings so when I meditate I open my heart to them and thank them for doing that experience for the great spirit so that I could do this one this time and so what I'm saying is I understand that there's times when we don't always have ideal food options but I know that those are the beings that didn't get to live a full life and didn't get loved by farming and when a farmer loves what they raise there's plenty of research showing that it makes a difference in how the plants respond the health of their immune systems how rapidly they grow how rich the nutrition is and you know spiritual farming like Steiner's method of biodynamic farming produces the most nutritious food in the world at many levels so I love to just connect to the spirits that haven't been treated well and let them know that now they're joining me and together we will always do our best to make the world a better place so all living beings feel supported and we help bring people's consciousness up and support everyone in other words you know love even the ugly because the ugly got ugly somehow is what I'm saying you know one of my favorite things about you and when we first met I felt that connection is um I love when I meet a no a truly no bullshit person and and uh you're about as genuine as you get well even to the point where and I do this like it doesn't take me long after I get to meet somebody I'll find their insecurities and I'll kind of poke around them to see how they handle yeah and it tells me a lot about their character and uh I did that with you when we first met and I was just incredibly impressed with uh and I've been around a lot of brilliant minds let's tell the truth you see that blood on my leg that's because you fucking beat me up you were trying to find my insecurities I got proof would I keep that off air let's be honest uh that was from you deadlifting 400 pounds yeah right in our gym oh yes don't I'm supposed to be old I'm not supposed to do that but this was this was the part of me that I I appreciate so much but then I have to ask you right and and what you just shared with us was the process of you consuming food yeah do you find you uh is it hard for you to turn off the switch and not just explain to somebody that you ate your food that you have the desire to want to teach and tell people that and do you ever stop and think like oh this is gonna turn people off and I probably shouldn't say it this way but I know this is how I how I feel this is how I believe and I want to share that do you struggle ever with that or do you have that I don't give a fuck I'm gonna say what I want to say all the time no I um pay attention to what I'm reading off whoever's in the environment if their eyes look at me as though they're wanting to ask but are afraid to ask I say I'm I suspect that you're curious as to what I was doing before I ate my food and they will just say yes were you praying or what were you doing why were you holding your hands over the food or something like that and I'll say would you like me to teach you what I do so you can experience it and I would say 99.999 percent of the time people say yes I'd love that and I mean many of them have very profound experiences it's the first time they've ever actually opened their heart and put their awareness to their food I mean I've literally had students break down emotional in tears like they just seen their long lost mother for 15 years for the first time and go oh my god all this time I didn't know that the food was conscious it could hear my thoughts it was reacting to me and I didn't even know what I said hey welcome home baby why do you think I pray you know it's from an objective damn good salad yeah from an objective point of view most cultures most ancient cultures had did some form of that in their own words or in their own way absolutely before they ate so and I really implore the listeners who are thinking like what's he talking like yeah your great grandparents probably did that in their own way whether it was a religious way or their cultural way and I think when you look at you know humanity when you look at societies old societies and you see these these rituals that people do in different cultures there's a reason why there's a reason why it's so common there's a reason why it's common in different cultures that have never communicated with each other that they had this ritual before they ate whether it be prayer or you know to to thank the food native americans did it you know yeah they did be thankful and you know from a western point of view how much we disrespect our food and what I mean by that is I don't mean we disrespect our food like we treat it horribly although we do do that but we don't respect what food is right and what food does for us it's made we are made you know food is made quickly it's consumed quickly it's engineered to hit every you know taste bud that you could you know possibly you know crave it's it's designed to become addictive and we don't respect what food does us to the point where if I go to the doctor in fact I had a conversation earlier I was just going to ask you I'm just going to ask you if you're going to share that I think this is a perfect time to share I had I had a conversation earlier with someone on social media about this where you know you go to the doctor and you you go to a dermatologist and you have acne for example you know something benign like acne although it can be quite troubling for someone and they don't talk about changing your diet in fact if you tell them if you ask them hey is it anything I'm eating they'll say no not at all has nothing to do with what you're eating and this could be I could go to the doctor for rheumatoid arthritis I could go for joint pain I could go for all these other issues aside from stomach problems that's about the only time they'll say it might be your food but they don't talk about your food with any type of respect and if you really think about it like you are this is this is something you do every single day almost every day for your entire life the food becomes you yeah it is more your medicine than almost anything aside from your oxygen and sunlight and communication with people it is all those it is absolutely and and so what you do before and what you say before you eat I don't the food the words are important to you but what I find even more fascinating about it is the respect that you have you respect your food enough to do that yeah and respect it in the sense of you understand what the food is is and what it does to you and for you and what it can do in terms of harm and all that it's a link between life and death just like breath is right you can't go without breathing for very long till you no longer can hold the balance of life and you cross over into another energetic dimension that we call death well food is right up there because food is largely water so you have to have water and you have to have food and you have to have breath and you have to have warmth or shelter to survive so for me food is actually the fabric that creates the matrix that allows my soul to exist consciously in what we call life and all you got to do is watch as people's diet and lifestyle gets worse and worse and they can't bring in the materials that their genes can use to rebuild the matrix of self which is the soul's home it's it's the soul's spiritual school is within the body that's how it enters into growth in life and into experience in life now just think of what happens if you spill battery acid on your t-shirt it eats right through it right so when you're eating chemicals and you're eating dead stuff and you're not eating anything that's got natural harmonic vibrations and doesn't produce photons in coherent orderly fashion like fritz albert pop showed organic food produces coherent light and in a significant greater amount than non-organic food he showed that it produced very random and chaotic spurts of photons and he showed basically that organic food was a source of not only information nutrition but it is a source of living information so it's communicating to things in our bio field so it's almost as though you're you know your liver we all know this liver needs certain foods dandelion works well for the liver for example well there's a harmonic between the way the liver's built and the structure of the liver's cells and the molecules and the components that we can get out of a dandelion so those things have a relationship with our liver that's positive but those things may not be ideal for the adrenal glands for example or for the lungs so chinese medicine's full of a whole cornucopia of which plants and which antlers and which bugs so they have this whole cornucopia of what does what for what right so when we stop eating well and we watch the changes in our body like it you don't get obese overnight you don't get type 2 diabetes overnight you don't get cancer overnight cancer for most people is somewhere between a 10 and a 15 year project of living an imbalanced lifestyle as a general rule of thumb so if you keep eating food that you think is just energy because that's what they taught you in science class and it's like gasoline that you put in a car you don't realize it's wheat what your cells weave the fabric of your existence out of then you start seeing tissues break down stretch marks all over the place you know men can't get erections anymore so they got to use drugs women dry out and their boobs start to sag and their faces get wrinkled and eight spine starts to ache and then your gallbladder gets cut out then your appendix gets cut out then your tonsils get cut and you just next thing you know you're kind of like that shirt that had battery acid spilled on it you got holes all over you and you're having a hard time really doing anything that's fun because everywhere you go you got to have a bucket of pills with you you're afraid to leave the doctor you're afraid there's a list of all i'm afraid i might not live without this but when you eat with awareness and you eat with the knowledge that every dollar you spend on organic food is food that is actually money that's going to supporting the whole planet for all of us versus paying for chemicals now you can see the connection between the soil and your soul and when you realize that your experience as a soul includes all the choices you make whether you're conscious of it or not meaning if you eat junk food and you're unconscious of it you still are going to suffer the effects of it there's no escaping that and that's one of the ways the soul enlightens people it lets you make these mistakes so that you have to learn because the pain guides you to making better choices and if you keep drugging it not listening then you just get deeper deeper deeper lessons until you come up against the brick wall called do i want to live anymore and it feels like when you have that kind of respect for food it's it's almost it's difficult to eat poorly it is it is because you know that you're harming yourself you're actually who how many people walk around all they bitching about everybody that hurt them my dad this my boss that uh you know they got a long long inner dialogue of all the people that screwed them in life and here they are the number one person screwing themselves not taking care of themselves poisoning themselves and you know you guys know me i'm i'm all for having a good time if you want to smoke or smoke pot or drink and dance and do do whatever but you you have to at least 80 of the time care for the garden enough that it can handle a party now and then otherwise the garden starts to break down and it's kind of like you know having a never-ending frat party at your house and you wake up one day and you've lost a hundred thousand dollars in value because all the windows are knocked out all the furniture is broken and you just figure that out in the corner yeah and you know and in the way you eat and the way you nourish yourself uh it can change right it can change from week to week or year to year to where i know last night you were talking about how you went through a period where you felt like you needed to eat a vegan type diet vegetarian can you explain that well in my holistic lifestyle coach training program um in hlc2 i teach a person how to connect to what i am referring to as the soul which is you know the inner consciousness of yourself it's the consciousness within you it's everything that allows you to have an experience of being yourself and knowing it in ken wilber's model it's called the upper left quadrant the personal interior so i make a habit of asking a question and listening and not thinking so for example if you say um a question like um should i eat one cookie or two cookies right now something that your ego is not going to get threatened over if the answer is one or two you can get by without a hassle right then you're brave enough to shut your ego down and just listen and when you start just pausing your ego completely you'll find there's another part of you that gives an answer to a question like that and that part of you is somehow strange and mysteriously your center but also at the same time somehow all of you and any other voice like when you're thinking with your head you feel the energy in your head if you pay attention your head is actually processing but when your soul is talking to you there's something that's coming from everywhere inside of you at once but somehow centralized at the same time it's kind of a miraculous little thing and that's kind of the consciousness within you so by just asking simple questions and completely practicing letting your mind relax like you just finished a set you sat on the bench and you're willing to let go you will begin to feel that there's the higher self that's the totality of your wisdom and the totality of everything that you think you are and more and it begins to speak to you and so that's that's the part that i listen to so when i ask my soul would you like to eat meat today yes or no would you like eggs today yes or no uh i was hoping to do some deadlifts today would you like to do deadlifts and i'll get a yes or no sometimes i think it's a great day to train sometimes my soul says no today you need to stretch and mobilize your body or go lift rocks or go for a walk or do some sprinting so what you find is is as you learn to let go to that part of yourself everything that you create starts to become more magnificent and you wake up one day and go you know i could have never done that on my own before i couldn't there's no way i could have painted that way or there's no way i could have come up with that idea you come to a realization that there is so much more wisdom inside of you that you've never been taught to access because the church kind of makes that illegal you know you have to go through the church to get to god but when you find out that this thing that we call a soul is god within you and it's right there all the time and totally willing to support you and guide you it's quite a marvelous experience so my that part of me told me you know many years ago that it was time for me to um i was also doing a lot of work in shamanism at the time so my soul told me it was time for me to cut out the meat detoxify and go into some training on rattling and drumming and various healing practices so for well probably a year i was getting up around 3 30 in the morning and going to work early so i had time to do about three hours of this work just letting my soul guide me and just had amazing amazing experiences and and so i was my soul asked me to go vegetarian and i checked every day are you sure you want in those days i was hungry i could eat a whale you know it's like i could watch the muscle coming off but i asked every time you know and spiritual courage is being brave enough to listen to the part of you that's beyond you know how good your pecs look or how much how much you can impress people with how big of what you can lift or you know it takes a fair bit of courage to get past letting that part of you control everything and so for me i think my soul took me through getting skinny and having a lot of people bitch at me and call me names and send me nasty letters but no on the inside that i was listening to the voice that has always guided me better than i can guide myself i don't care what anybody thinks about whether that's foo for whatever most of the people that have opinions like that have no experience of it so it's just like listening to your mother tell you had how bad lsd is or something um you know something like that i'll tell you what i think right i i have that i know on that woo woo part if do you feel people think you're crazier now or do you feel like in the past you got that more like and the reason why i say this is because some of the things you talk of and the way you talk about them i find it's fascinating that we're starting to gain a lot of popularity well not only is it gaining popularity is we're starting to create tools to try and quantify this stuff like i know you were tracking sleep and heart rate variability before anybody was fucking talking about this and now you're starting to see these everyone has a tool now that tells them they're they're sleeping so and that's what i meant by that like some of the stuff that probably sounded really kooky for people you were saying 20 years ago and i'm at i'm asking you do you feel like you get the you know crazy uncle kooky paul check more now or did you get it more 20 years ago you know i've been getting it all the way from different people for different reasons that's a clue that tell me you're on the right track if you ask me yeah uh you know like i think i told you in the last interview when i first brought the swiss ball into gyms and was developing the technology that i put into courses and videos i got ridiculed constantly mostly by big dudes with lots of muscles bodybuilders you know guys that thought they were tough guys you know and so and then there was also many people that were scared they thought it was too dangerous and you know i had an onslaught of resistance but i also had you know people like alva meal strength coach from the chicago bulls who was blown away at what happened when he implemented all the techniques that i taught him and his partner eric that were the strengthening conditioning that was the the jordan era too yeah yeah i i work for the bulls i think seven different times to uh share uh key concepts alva meal was a very open minded guy he's probably the most successful strength coach i know of in the world he had 13 championship rings between his work with the nfl on the nba and uh very very intelligent guy someone who i really enjoyed working with and um so he attended a lecture i gave a long long time ago for the national strength and conditioning association on core control and he loved it so he got my course and he said this is too technical i need your help guide me to using this properly so i don't screw this up and i got him on that and then i got the bulls using swiss balls and they were the first professional sports team to take them on as part of their training routine and then i think the lakers picked it up from them so i got a lot of hassle with that i mean without telling a long story it's always the same kind of resistance but the people that think i'm crazy for telling you that how i pray and connect to food and you talk to soul are not the same people that thought it was crazy for bringing swiss balls into the gym and at the same time they are some of the same people but i'm saying there are some people that would have thought the swiss ball idea was really cool and had no resistance to it but i freak out i freak out about i think my relationship with food or my soul is just nutty so it's the nature of tai chi that uh opportunity always has to have resistance nearby or there's no action potential you understand what i mean by that so no matter whenever you're growing or moving in a way that's out of the consensus norm it usually triggers fear or judgment from people because they're conditioned like if you're driving home tonight someone's driving at you head on you're probably going to think that's a complete moron heading at you and what the hell is he doing on the road he must be stoned or something and you're not probably going to think i bet you that guy just landed from england and he doesn't realize on the wrong side of the road right now right so if you've been in england and you've had that experience yourself then you can probably say oh boy i bet you that guy just got home from me from a european travel trip or something my cousin did that to me coming from northern ireland and he was driving my truck and started going like 80 miles an hour on the wrong lane scared the shit out of me but my but my point for that analogy is as you see there's people on either side of the fence always make sense and the way we grow spiritually is we come to the realization that when you were a kid you had great ideas your dad told you they wouldn't work or your brother told you they wouldn't work and then when you went to high school your teacher told you they wouldn't work and then when you went to college your professor said oh that'll never work in fact you won't even get that published well 10 years later you're the world's leading expert on the subject they told you wouldn't even get published on right so it's like the resistance on the hero's journey has to be there or a hero can't be made and we're not really sure who we are till we make a hero out of ourselves but the trick is only you can decide when you're hero enough to stop trying so hard to prove something and that's the day you become a man or a woman you know or a serious badass actually a lot of what you a lot of what you say the language that you use i think is what makes it difficult for some people to understand and what i mean is like when i hear someone talk about chinese medicine and talk about chi for example for a western medicine doctor they're going to automatically shut off but when you look at the way chinese medicine works from a western standpoint now we have studies to show that many of the things that they do actually actually work but the language is what makes it difficult for people to understand meditation i'll use the meditation as another example for a long time meditation was just something that you know hippies and you know you know those kind of people did right yeah and all of a sudden now athletes are doing it professional athletes and strength athletes are doing it yeah and other people now are listening because they use a different language so like when you talk about food or you talk about the you know your relationship to food and how you talk or when you ask yourself should do is my soul want to eat meat yeah um that language would make it difficult for people to understand but what i hear because i'm trying to i'm really trying to break this down and what i hear is really just becoming aware of what your body needs and it's just a different language so let me explain something to you i'll use steiner's model the soul steiner teaches that wherever there's something with an inside and an outside there's a soul and this is in this is called the great chain of being in most religions begins with an atom right you can't have a body unless you started with an atom okay so an atom has an energetic inside and an outside because there's a structure to an atom there's a structure to nickel there's a structure to gold there's a structure to salt right so atoms only get together create structures so what's outside that structure in empty space is different than what's inside is what i'm saying so what's inside of it is the soul and that's shall we say the information field that makes it be salt or makes it be stone or whatever it is well then we so there's the mineral soul that's the basis of the development of what we are from the mineral soul you go to the biological soul so once you have cellular life or even bacterial life anything that has sentience of its needs in other words it's hungry and it has to protect itself whatever now you've got something that has self-awareness so you go from mineral soul to biological excuse me biological soul which goes all the way up right consciousness evolves as the brain gets bigger and different other systems grow and so from biological soul we have the intellectual soul and that's the part of us that we know ourselves through as our personality that's where the ego is there's no such thing really as a body with an ego the body knows that it's part of nature and it knows that it's a different body but the body doesn't have issues about how it looks or how it feels that it's very pure in its instincts so it's like a dog's very pure in its authenticity i'm hungry i want to sleep whatever so the intellectual soul is really made of information mostly passed to us through our parental programming and through our social circles and social environments the next phase up which is a big jump a person doesn't really know what spiritual development is from an authentic perspective until they make it to the next level which steiner called the awareness soul and the awareness soul is what emerges as soon as you begin to question your own thoughts so for example you might say john's a real dick that's the third time he's done that to me that guy's a real dick but the next level up in spiritual growth where spiritual awareness actually emerges is when all of a sudden you're brave enough to say i wonder if that's actually true i wonder if maybe i'm being a dick and i just don't realize it or you know you start to actually question yourself honestly not trying to prove anything but but just trying to actually be brave enough to look at both sides of an equation so you're not bullshitting yourself into thinking that you're right so as that awareness soul grows and you'll be shocked when you start doing that to yourself you just here's an example listen to yourself when you're stating things to people factually marijuana does this to you or this supplement gives you that effect whatever and then sit for a minute in meditation and say how sure am i of that oh well i read a study but were you there what was that what were do you remember the parameters of the study designed you know how many people they were do you know who the statistician was do you know who funded the study which is one of the most important things to know about a study before you believe jack shit and what you find out is that most of what you and i perceive to be factual is actually what osho calls paper boats and the deeper you go into that the more you realize that we are very um we've become very comfortable at living on a sort of a mystical concept of factuality when really it's mostly fabricated so then when you start going into the awareness soul and really questioning that and if if all that happens is you just suspend judgment maybe this guy's not a dick and maybe i'm not a dick maybe there's just all kinds of dicks in the room we're both having a bad day and it just happened the last three times we met we were both having a bad day you know you you leave room so simple minded thinking is on off yes no too dimensional more sophisticated thinking is is yes no maybe or both and then there's an under level yes no maybe or both becomes the question is not even appropriately asked so it shouldn't even be considered you understand that like some people ask questions that just are asking the wrong question for whatever it is they're trying to find out because they just don't have enough knowledge to even formulate a question that can give a meaningful answer it's like a three-year-old trying to ask you a question about uh an olympic lift it doesn't really have a structure to know whether its question is appropriate or not so i have an inappropriate question to ask you so last last night i can't help uh and i this i love talking to you about some of this because you are so fucking wrong you'll just tell whatever right i know you drove up in your rv yeah and you brought both your wives to dinner with us had an incredible both of them are incredible i can't help but ask myself how does the sleeping arrangement work when you get into that rv because i know there's only one there's only one bed do you guys all together no there's there's uh three beds oh there's the bed above the cab the bench across from the dinner table folds into a bed and then the whole back is like a bedroom back there there's a bathroom and then there's like a like a queen-sized bed with cupboards and space to walk around it so what i do is i spend typically two days with penny and then two days with angie and i just rotate back and forth two days at a time and there's times when maybe mana's having teething pain and he needs some more support from daddy that all might stay three four days with angie and then i'll go back to penny and i'll probably spend two three days or whatever feels good but because angie uh you know because mono's only 14 months old and she was pregnant she needed more connection and support and i've been with penny over 20 years so pennies you know not angie and i've been together five years so there's still a lot more growing in the kind of the intimate development of the relationship where penny i've worked through a lot of these stages and we've been the seven-year it just happened three times so you know we know this whole story and we don't really need a lot of things from each other we just love being together it's like we don't have to jump each other for sex just to make sure we're still in love or we don't have to have long discussions about things because we already know how each other sees the world so we're happy just sitting and reading a book and not talking and just dig in that or just watching a movie together or her doing her thing and i do my thing and we go to bed whenever we feel like it and she often shows up when i'm asleep and it's just cool and if we make love great if it doesn't happen great if it doesn't happen for a week no big deal if it doesn't happen for two weeks it's okay if we have lots of sex for three days that's okay too now in the five years now is there ever is ever the melding of all three no um there's is there is there a rule like that's a misconception right i feel like that's i i i mean people got to be thinking that's why i'm asking yeah no that's okay people do ask um there's different styles out there um and a lot of people accuse me of running a cult because i have two wives and they think i'm kind of doing more than Hugh Heffner i guess which you know if i if i could contribute as much as Hugh Heffner did to the world even if they called me a cult leader i'd still be doing great um but Penny's a very private person and she really likes to have her own life in fact Penny's bedroom is at one end of the house and Angie's bedroom is at the opposite end of the house and the kitchen and another bedroom and Penny's office separate the house and it just worked out that way because my house is laid out that way so it just happened that we could do that but um i try to give them both as much love as i can and not be favoritism to anybody because that's just not healthy and it's part of the growth of being in a relationship like that is learn to just be honest and even and now as last night as i was trying to convince Katrina that this was a really good idea for us and it wasn't going over very well for me she uh she had to ask like i want she asked me and so i have to ask you uh i wonder do do the girls get the same uh flexibility and what if they came to you and said paul i met this young 25 year old guy and i and i what do you think like would they be allowed to would that cause a problem do you think that would happen i mean um you know penny and i've started our relationship on the grounds that we would be honest with what we needed so that we didn't have to run into the kinds of problems that make most um supposedly christian type monogamous relationships very very painful and put a lot of junk in the trunk as i say a lot of withholding and concealing of affairs and fantasies and you know and this is one of the reasons you see so much porn addiction because of all this kind of inner compression and and abstinence that makes up devils um my my thing is just be present with whatever arises and just be honest with what's real for you um i know that that's unlikely because angie and i both had been with a lot of people and we both when we came together found something in each other that was more powerful than the desire to be with multiple people and it's funny because when it happened to me it surprised me but i think it was i think i was telling you about it at lunch so i was saying you know that i reached a point where even though my wife was giving me total freedom to be with other women and i had um many beautiful and loving relationships with incredibly beautiful people physically mentally and spiritually um i just felt with angie that in order to really get what we can get from each other to help each other grow spiritually we have to drill a deeper well you know if you're looking for spiritual water drilling six foot holes doesn't get you very deep to really grow with someone spiritually you got to go through the work of drilling three or four hundred or a thousand feet and that means you're going to hit rubble and you're going to hit gas pockets and you're going to hit uh washouts you know and you're going to hit hard rock and those are all metaphors for challenging times that you have to work through together um and that can be anything from getting clear on whether your body's horny or whether your soul's horny sometimes our bodies get horny and we can't and we screw our relationships up to feed a penis that's stiff and takes over our mind versus checking in with what our heart really wants you know and the problem is even wild passionate sex with somebody like that might only last an hour or two or three or four ten if you're lucky right wow now you're bragging well you know but i did say if you're lucky but then you got the rest of your life after that right and in a in a in a few minutes in a hotel you can you can ruin a lot of opportunity so for me it's really um i think penny and i are just at peace and and i would be honored them the same way they've always honored me that's our agreement um and and if it felt painful for me i would say i feel painful for this reason or i feel afraid for this reason but i have had experiences of sharing women before with men so i know what it feels like and i'm i've tested it out so so you know you could handle it if it had to go if it went that way well you know when i when i did do that it was with uh one of my buddies that who who was a very good friend of mine and someone i really appreciate as an athlete as a human being and um it was the time in life my life after my first marriage where i was single and he was a very good looking man and many women you know wanted to jump him and um it just happened there were times that i was fortunate enough in those years to have women that were so intensely sexual i was ready to call in call in the troops so i got this like i don't want this poor to be unsatisfied so if i was going to share with a duty with a woman i wanted to make sure it was someone that i loved and respected enough as a human being to be that intimate with um not just any guy i mean and i didn't i don't have any sexual attraction to males at all i'm highly heterosexual so for me it was really like just saying you won't believe how much gold i found in fact i need you to help me spend it because there's too much here this you're rick a we've got a we've got a chance here to spend some gold a vagina overload and you know every every one of the women was girlfriends of mine and we're all blown away grateful that i would do that with them they say paul this is a fantasy i've had for my whole life and i never found a man secure enough to share that with me and i made me tears coming out of their eyes it was like god had just showed up and you know and and i would just i feel great about it because you know there's a lot of pain people create for themselves by believing in stories about what god doesn't want and i say love is a boomerang and to me the highest form of god there is is the highest form of love which is unconditional love which means the answer is always yes for god to say no creates a condition that means god has needs and that's not very godly god's supposed to be everything and have everything and therefore if you are everything and you have everything there's really not much you need to want since you already have it anyhow right so a god that's going to judge you and burn you in hell and tell you how you shouldn't shouldn't masturbate or how you shouldn't shouldn't shouldn't have sex or who you shouldn't that that's you know that means god's a chicken shit it means god's not willing to look into god's own dark side but god is right in the bible isaia 457 says i the lord create the light and the dark i create good and evil i the lord do all these things and that is bang on and they just hate that passage so much they even change it in the last 15 or 20 years so it doesn't say that anymore but the fact is god's brave enough to act out every role in the cosmic drama with tremendous authenticity and there's nobody that can judge sal or adam or justin or daver paul because there's only one of you and behind you there is no other there is no one for you to compare yourself to the only person that can judge your performance in the grand play of life is you and the only position you can judge it from is an ego until you grow up enough to say to your soul what do you think how'd we do and the soul is always going to say you did great how do you feel are you happy if you're happy i'm happy and if you're happy being an asshole your soul will probably be happy being an asshole too because god has to be an asshole or nothing that's non asshole can exist just like up can't exist with down without down in can't exist without out you know people have this kind of childish view of god but they forget god is the light in the dark the in and the out the up and the down the high and the low the beautiful and the ugly god's not just the pretty side of the rug flip most rugs over you see all the shortcuts as alan watt says so we walk on the beauty of the rug and you could say that great spirit lets us walk all over it until we realize what's really going on and then you celebrate more so i find it fascinating that you you quoted the bible but i i feel like you what do you see wrong with uh religion and things like christianity for you to quote that and a verse out of isiah like that but then also i think you have i believe i know what your feelings are but what do you see flawed uh in in in religion or christianity or any any of any religion for that matter i don't think there's anything flawed with it um it would be like the same question of saying what do you think is wrong with the drug industry right well you can have very harsh opinions how we use it or how we interpret and i i don't like the drug industry for the same reason i don't like uh religion for money because the drug industry praise on keeping people sick to keep selling the money it's a disease maintenance system the whole medical system is not a health care system it's a disease maintenance system they got drug scheduled for you from cradle to grave you're you're an investment that they have to maintain that's simple fact and this is the food industry it's many industries the whole medical industry the drug industry uh i mean look at the billions and billions of dollars made just off one disease like diabetes for god's sakes i mean diseases big big big big business they don't want no cure for cancer they just want something that looks like a cure for cancer that'll work just long enough to get a few billion from you so then they can come up with another one so the game you know they keep moving the carrot in front of your nose and you can never quite reach it and it's so it's a game so the the point that i'm making is is that everyone has a choice right people that choose to use the drugs usually do it because they're ignorant they don't know any better or they're not willing to participate in an authentic change process where they look at the choices they're making that led them into the heartburner led them into the back pain the over exercise or the under exercise or not getting the therapy that their doctor told them they should get because they have a minor disc bulge so it turns into a major bulge not changing their chair when the doctor said you need to get a better chair i mean this goes on all day long and some people are just too lazy to actually take care of the gift of the body because they're not awake enough to realize how freaking magnificent a human body is and how what a miracle it is to have one right so it's taken as a given like it's taken for granted is really and so people like that basically take that path and it takes them deeper and deeper into pain you know as I often say how do you get the juice out of a coconut you whack it and so we the soul lets us whack ourselves until we're you know ready to be awakened to the fact that there is no escape taking responsibility for our choices and that's when your spiritual birth begins and you say okay I got to stop playing stupid games with myself and I got to stop even believing in stupid science because obviously it ain't freaking working here and I got to stop believing in what they say in church because all these people that say you shouldn't have affairs or having affairs and all these priests who say you should never touch kids in negative ways or screwing kids and you know you realize that the shadow and the light forever dance with each other and it's up to us to decide when we're being honest enough and loving enough that we can handle being alone with ourselves Steiner says the first thing that happens when you die is you find yourself surrounded by people just like you and you stay there until you're absolutely sick of yourself and sure of what you will never do again in your next lifetime so I always remember when Steiner said that in his book at home in the universe and I that made me think it's like okay if I'm gonna have to be with myself then it's really important that I be honest about what it's like to be with myself and that requires the birth of the awareness soul because you got to start asking yourself am I being honest am I being fair am I being too harsh am I being not not restraining enough right sometimes you got to say no to a kid even if the kid's going to freak out or you got to say no to patients or clients you got to tell them they're bullshitting themselves but if you're afraid to be honest with people then you can actually be harming them by being a chicken shit because you're afraid of a little confrontation so we you know there's abundant growth around every corner so all I'm saying is there's a spectrum from people that are you know the devout yogi who goes to the extreme of fanaticism and won't put anything in his body that isn't you know blessed by Shiva and then on the other end you got the people that go to McDonald's and eat fast food and get diabetes and take pills all day and spend two you know a third of their income on drugs and doctors and then you got guys like me that say hey you know a little balance you know you don't need to be an extreme because there's no god doesn't have any special rewards for being an extremist it's just another role in the show right if you want that role go ahead or you can you know be in the middle and have a little drugs when you're needing them because you're in pain and you just don't want to deal with the pain and you can do a little exercise to fix it up or get therapy you can find yourself somewhere where you're at peace with yourself then you're then you're ready to hang out with yourself do you feel like most people fool themselves into thinking they're that way though I feel like a lot of people do that I feel like you you think you have balance or you tell yourself your balance like that but we're if we're really truly honest yeah research shows we overestimate ourselves on average about 70 percent for example if you have to rate yourself as how good a driver you are from a scale of one to ten the average person is 70 percent overshoots on anything you ask them yeah well yeah how how smart are you how much money yeah yeah yeah pretty much anything yeah it's a little bloated self-esteem confidence are you um you just talked about it being at peace with oneself uh and you sounds like you've been at this for a very long time yeah are you fully at peace with yourself I have times when I feel sadness inside of myself um sometimes frustration with myself you know uh when you have two wives you have to really consciously um pay attention to a lot of dynamics sorry you have to you have to be careful not to provoke things between the two women um which you can easily do if you're not conscious by making a comment maybe that supports one and leaves the other one feeling like oh am I not good enough to get that comment too or in other words it takes a lot of awareness I always say to people because a lot of my students say oh I'm going to do that too and I say look if you can't handle one no I had one I'm throwing a second one yeah it's it's a fire walk that you may spend the rest of your life trying to get over well marriage is difficult anyway adding another person to that is just make I when people think it's like fun and games I'm always like uh you know it's difficult enough with two people you have a third person it's got to be much more it's just an adding another element well one of the things I I did with Penny is as I said to Penny well actually when I told her this was my dream when before we got committed to each other engaged she said to me how many um wives do you want and at the time I actually believed I mean I was I don't know how old was I we've been together 20 years I'm 55 I was 35 so I have a comment for 35 but it's let's just say at 35 you're kind of at a weird place because you actually have lived enough life to think you really know what's going on but it's easy to delude yourself because in the next 20 years you'll learn a lot more than you did in the first 35 does that make sense because as you grow you can learn faster because you know more so knowledge compounds itself much quicker so you you know at 50 you can learn as much in a day as you did in a week at 35 as a metaphor right you know because you got a lot more sensors about you you've had more experiences so you can see more in the world unless you're just dumb and drugged out because you're not participating anyhow I forgot where I was going with that but you know the the thing that I'm sharing is coach by the way I was what I was you know if you were at peace with yourself and you said sometimes you feel yeah so so what it is that I was leading to there is that I'll find sometimes that one of the ladies might say something to me or ask me to do something and I might have just come home from work and I'm just tired of talking I've talked all day I deal with people's problems and people that come to me with challenges right not simple ones otherwise they wouldn't be paying me the money I charge they come with midlife crisis disease problems athletes paying you know being paid $100,000 a game who are at risk of losing their job because they've had a back injury for you know two years and they're sitting on the bench and the teams pissed off and you know so I need to shut down when I come home I don't necessarily want to talk very much and Angie hasn't seen me all day and and so Penny's been away from me too so sometimes Penny needs to share things and Angie needs to show things and I don't want to be talked to I just want to be in a man cave somewhere so I can find myself uh getting sharp edged you know um Penny says I'm like a rattlesnake that's just sweet thing to say yeah well that's that's the honesty that I love her for that's great you know and I at the time when I do it I feel like I feel sometimes frustrated because like don't they realize that I've been dealing with people's problems all day and I'm working my ass off to you know earn the money to allow us to live the way we live and have the money to support other people in other words I'm really committing myself and sometimes I just need a little time to myself and it's easy to forget one's been holding on to a one year old 14 month old kid all day who's a tiger and the other one's been managing an entire institute that can have lots of things going on all over the world at the same time and sometimes challenges right business comes with challenges so my point is you asked me am I happy I'm happy but there are times where I see the way I behave and I'm very much aware that I still have a long way to go in my growth and development to take God from the noun to the verb you know talking about God as a noun is easy people do it all the time and they delude themselves to thinking just because they say fancy words about God and read cool books about God that they're spiritually evolved but God's not real till God's a verb so when I catch myself speaking in ways acting in ways or judging in ways that I know in the wisest part of myself don't reflect God then I am aware that I'm I still have a lot of growth in the spirit gym you know that's what I call spirit gym who gives a shit about how strong you are with barbells dumbbells and kettlebells if you're a wimp in the spirit gym and unfortunately a lot of the muscling up that goes on in the physical earth gym is to compensate for the pains and the fears and the judgments that are opportunities to grow in the spiritual gym and if people would do more work in the spiritual gym they would have a lot less need to armor themselves and they'd be much more capable of finding beauty in themselves that's beyond pecs tits asses how big your dick is how fast you can run you know and our culture would wouldn't spend so much money on plastic surgery and and trying to create an illusion you know that and and and God's into that too don't get me wrong I'm not judging and I'm just saying that we all have a lot of room to grow there and though I'm at peace with myself I'm also conscious of that I could create a lot more peace in myself but I'm going to have to practice every day and I believe spirit gave me two wives so that I have and a new child so I have every reason to practice you know you can only take with you what you die what you become in life understand you can't leave here Buddha unless you've become Buddha as a verb right so this is kind of like live training in the afterlife it's like simulator training you can never recapitulate life in the afterlife because you're not in life you're in the afterlife it's like looking at a movie the second time as opposed to being in the first time when you come into life you're in the live field of action and that's the only place you can make the decisions and relationships to truly grow and decide not to hit somebody back or not to give your finger to somebody or you know not to bite your wife's head off because she just wants to tell you about her day and you know whatever it might be so that's my way of saying yeah I am happy because I make an honest effort every day and I even make an honest effort to be empathetic to myself and say hey you know what there's a party that just wishes that they could feel what you feel and if they could feel what you feel they might understand you better and then my soul says but it's equally important to remember that if you could feel what they feel you might realize that they're under a lot more stress than you are and need your help more than you need to be alone and that's the journey right there I gotta I gotta feel like you have to have another conviction with your business and your level of awareness and knowing the importance of staying grounded staying connected always reflecting and then we're living a world though that you know and the saying goes you know money money makes the world turn and these things are how we make means and get by and have houses and feed ourselves and where it's evolving is getting more plugged in and disconnected with yourself and more connected from a virtual stance to people and knowing that and knowing that's the direction and then also being a guy who's trying to get this message to truly genuinely help a lot of people that has to be you got to struggle with that you got it it's hard because you know there's so much knowledge now amongst big corporations on how the social brain works the social mind and you know just like your autonomic nervous system does a lot of thinking and processing below the level of your consciousness the social mind or the culture does a huge amount of information processing below but the people that make the laws you know the George Bush's of the world and the Donald Trump's of the world and the big lawyers of the world and and the movers and shakers have the ability to program I mean 85 people and own half the money in the world so that you know that tells you there's 85 people that own half the wealth of the entire planet so those people are very invested in keeping you on their agenda because that's just a printing press that they run and this is you know everyone knows this it's looked into it but the reality of it is is that you have to compete I mean think Coca Cola spends like 350 million dollars a year to market sugar water right well if I had 350 million dollars a year to market the check institute let me tell you I can sell one shitload of courses and people would be changing and it would be very very threatening to these large corporations because I can show people very quickly that you can get off a lot of drugs by just simply drinking good water eating real food sleeping when you should be sleeping and getting enough movement to keep your animal body healthy and that alone could collapse the medical system right but we forget that the medical system is one of the largest taxpayers there is which means one of the biggest supporters of the defense industry and the drug industry and the you know all the industry so there's a whole lot going on here that doesn't meet the eye I mean like I'm saying if I could make everybody healthy I'd also create a huge financial crisis and the whole country would start to collapse so so I reached the point where I just said I have to just trust great spirit and do what my heart tells me is loving authentic and honest and trust that you know it's like us coming together you guys found out about me through various contacts and I found about out about you from some of my students and really liked your stuff and it wasn't very long after someone Paul you said really you really should interview with the mind pump guys I think they would actually was Mike Salemi Mike said Paul these guys would love what you do I just know they would you're going to have a good time if you meet these guys and the next thing you know here we are right and so you're sharing with your audience your stuff and I'm sharing with my audience your stuff so we're we're you know reciprocating you know and that's that's what love is love is that reciprocity you know I define love is the flow of energy and information through empathic and or compassionate connection to self or other we're sharing energy and information and we're empathetic and compassionate for each other's mission and for each other's life experiences and challenges and that we're all here it surprises me either it surprises me you don't have more relationships like that because you are such a compassionate person for us it wasn't a hard decision at all when we especially after we met well I'll tell you what I mean so there's a lot of a lot of times you're saying things and I'm trying to figure out what you're communicating and trying to get it and to me it sounds foreign and I don't I I'm deciding if I agree or not but but I also I have a pretty good bullshit meter in the sense that you're a very genuine person so and for me that's number one if somebody's very genuine then I tend to like them regardless if I agree or disagree I've had we've had hosts excuse me guests on our show who are on the complete opposite end of the spectrum of you who say very very different things and who I may not agree with a lot but they're very genuine and so I respect what they say and you're one of those people which you know is one of the reasons why you're one of our more polarizing guests but lots of people really wanted to hear what you had to say lots of people really wanted to hear what you had to say about even basic things like fitness which you've been doing this for so long you're so advanced in your in your quest for for overall total wellness that you talk about a lot of the advanced things but there's a lot of basic messages there too that I think a lot of people need to hear for example let's talk about exercise for a second I want to change gears for a second yeah what is the biggest mistake you see the average person making with exercise the biggest mistake has two sides like a coin of course it couldn't be a fucking one minute answer let me break this down to the sun and the moon to you real quick I'll just give you I'll give you this edit ready are you ready yeah okay on the tail side of the coin which is far the bigger in our culture is not doing enough exercise on the heads is doing too much there's your answer right on point right I like to live in the middle and anyone that does usually feels greater looks greater and doesn't spend so much time going the older I get the faster I was now how does somebody know if they're doing too much because their body doesn't recover in other words you go to your next scheduled workout maybe you're doing pulling exercises every third day and all of a sudden your warm-up weight feels so heavy it's like you just walked out of the gym yesterday so your body's saying do not do this again you are not recovered enough and then you all of a sudden notice geez you know I went out to a friend's house who's a vegan last night for dinner and I had nothing but salad and you wake up in the morning and you feel a lot better than you felt in a long time and the warm-up bar feels like it's made of feathers and you go whoa what the hell's different man this isn't normal for me you say shit I haven't eaten meat now for two meals I spend most my fucking career trying to connect those dots for people you know that's a hard one to connect so in high tech terms you've alkalinized yourself and you've given yourself the nutrition to shut down huge amounts of inflammation which is anabolic which means you sped your recovery up and then you listen to some more like Paul Chek say you should really take long cold showers whenever you finish training and before bed if you want to improve your sex drive and in the morning if you want to exercise your autonomic nervous system and your arterial vascular bed your arterial vascular bed is a living tree of arteries and veins that respond to temperature and we are in such temperature controlled rooms it's like there's a whole muscular tree as big as your whole body that no one exercises holy shit you just blew my mind that makes plenty of sense you know what's you know why you blew my mind because there's a lot of studies and science right now supporting temperature contrast well it's the reason why you see Dr. Wim Hof right now on the exploding everywhere now the doctor I think he's just went off no I think he's Dr. Wim Hof no he's Wim Hof yeah uh really yeah I didn't know that he's just went off he's still still a bad anyways uh Dr. Ronger Patrick talks a lot about uh you know going into in heat and you know temperature contrast and I've been experiencing it myself and it makes perfect sense what you just said that it's something you just you need to exercise like anything else when the sympathetic systems on it pushes blood to the surface of the body to the muscles you know five six of the blood in your organs when you're working out real hard can come out into the body to fuel athletic activity so your arteries have to open up to surge all that blood up right but when you get cold once your skin starts to go numb those sympathetic vessels stop trying to set blood to the surface because they're called a hunter's reflex now they constrict and all the energy all the blood turns around goes back into you as a protective device so if you just alternate from getting to where the water is as cold as you can get it and then let it go as you know like if I'm in Toronto or or I'm up in in northern California like I just was the water's cold enough that after like three or four minutes of it say on your neck it'll make your skin go numb or your whole like after I do heavy deadlifts I let it I try to get my whole back to go numb with the water so I wanted the coldest water I can get and then once it goes numb I just turn around and let it do the front of myself and then I turn around I do that five six minutes and I learn to breathe and regulate my internal temperature by using my chi and just using turning my parasympathetic on by controlling the pace of the out breath and breathing diaphragmatically I do tai chi with little clothes on in cold weather to train myself to warm myself up so what happens is that water is now oscillating and if you really want to take a step further you can do a minute of hot water which will surge all the blood to the surface and turn the sympathetic system on which would be like sprinting for a minute then you do a minute or two of cold water and turn it back around which would be like jumping in a pool of ice it's funny because for hundreds of years we've been doing hot and cold plunges right and like this has been done in cultures for thousands of years so this is part of religious ceremonies and now science is starting to support it how let me ask you this Paul how long have you been doing that I don't know more longer than 10 years that probably 10 years you know um I knew about it because I studied cryotherapy when I when I was in my studies you know I worked for for four years in a physical therapy clinic and I worked with a lot of elite athletes and it was a large the largest physical therapy clinic in San Diego so with 13 surgeons connected to us so I studied a lot of you know rehab for post-surgical stuff so I studied a book by night on cryotherapy and it goes through all the physiology and I studied guidance textbook of physiology which shows you how the whole arterial vascular tree works I've done five complete cadaver dissections and so it was 10 years ago you were reading about cryotherapy it longer than that I was reading about cryotherapy probably in when I was trainer of the army boxing team in 1983 so here's what trips me out right it's just now servicing to I'm telling you this guy I mean she just asked you what the next trend's gonna be that's also gonna say Paul and you you read so much this is the next trend you oh you guys yeah that's cool that's what I like to hear damn I feel good about you read so much you you know a lot about so many different subjects on a broad spectrum I mean 10 minutes ago you were talking about you know consciousness and God and you know religion and then now you're talking about cold and heat contrast and you know exercise and we could talk about nutrition we could talk about gut health we could talk about movement this was mostly self-taught yes I left school in ninth grade this this is this is blowing this is mind blowing to me because I feel pretty well versed when it comes to exercise and nutrition those are my areas of expertise mainly exercise especially exercise programming and we've talked off air about these subjects and I watched you you did you know a few hours ago you did some video with Taylor or even before that where you were doing some exercises and demonstrating your technique with the cables and I've trained hundreds of trainers have worked for me and me and Adam are watching you with the way you're instructing we're looking at each other I'm like this guy's he's a brilliant trainer he's brilliant with the way he's delivering the message he understands how to exercise the body but you have no formal I mean you have no I guess quote unquote formal education this is all self-taught yeah now what I did is um I sought out the best people at whatever it is that went out so like for example when I wanted to learn about how to work with nuclear uh nuclear extrusions or disc bulges because you just woke up one day and that's so well because I had so many I had so many people with these disc injuries coming to me all the time I needed to learn you know what can you do with someone like this so you don't hurt them so what I would do is research talk to the best doctors and therapists say who if you had to take a course from someone on how to centralize a herniated disc in the cervical or lumbar spine whose courses would you take and I'd get a consensus and so it would always point into one or two people then I'd go study with them and and I got to the point after many many years I averaged 36 000 a year on continuing education just traveling all over the world taking these courses and sometimes I get special permission to get in because I wasn't a physical therapist or an osteopath but usually when they find out who I'd worked for and who knew me I would get in and I'd show them articles I'd written and that was usually enough they said oh holy shit we want to hear what you have to say um then it got to the point where a lot of these people wanted to trade with me make certain elite therapists and doctors said well I want to learn some of what you want to learn so how about a day each I'll work you answer my questions for a day I'll answer yours for a day that's cool and so but last time I checked because I had to do this to get my California state massage therapy license because I maintain an active massage license as part of my work um we went through all my continuing education certificates and I had uh five thousand I think five thousand and five classroom hours from my certificates because it states because they're all for university credits and stuff I had five thousand and five classroom hours of certificates from the courses I've taken from experts all over the world including an advanced training program in the Czech Republic in Prague with Vladimir Yonda and Carol Levitt two of the greats of the musculoskeletal rehab world so when you went looking at fitness kind of a whole or let's say exercise as a whole uh do you have favorites that you've learned from or the most uh where you saw the most growth in yourself spending time with like do you have any that come to mind or is it just I never really studied too many people in the exercise industry at all I studied Eugene Sandow's books oh yeah um classic strong man yeah in fact that mr olympia sales uh trophy is Eugene Sandow yeah I learned a lot about program design from Charles polligan he was a good buddy of mine for many years considered one of the more brilliant one of the most brilliant yeah we shared a lot of information I was a consultant to him many times I helped him get a job at the chicago bulls I co-developed a uh program with him which is my my initial program design course and so I used a lot of his research to help him get more known in the united states because he was unknown really in the united states I could have used lots of different people's research to make the same points but to support awareness of him because he was my buddy I quoted a lot of his research for him um so I learned a fair bit from Charles but I really didn't study with those types of people I studied medical exercise physiology from very very advanced rehab experts like Bjorns Fenson and studied Ola Grimsby's work and and people who are like very very elite in european countries doing things that you know americans are only recently learning about like you know three uh you know thousand rep sets to regenerate tendons on the rotator cuff using micro fractions of the weight or unweighted exercise and various technologies so I learned in other words I learned how to use exercise science and built my own system by doing all sorts of assessments and studying what was working and what wasn't working and doing and I've invented calipers to make certain measurements that there was no measurements for in physical therapy or osteopathy but I could see based on the mechanics of the body that these things needed to be monitored or you for example you've got to know what the head position is helping knowing what the angle of the first rib is tells me a whole lot about what's going on in your scalings and in your posture and in your breathing mechanism so there's many problems that will not respond surgically even though they cut the scalings and they still have lots of problems because it's a deeper problem that so I invented calibrated instruments so I could make postural measurements and I was one of the first people probably in the world to develop a very comprehensive orthopedic and neurological assessment and repeatedly do it so that I could see exactly to the degree what was happening to a person's body when I put them on specific exercises and could tell you right away within as little as a week when an exercise was actually making their structure worse their lumbar curve too flat their head too forward their body too rigid their coordination was getting worse not better I did biomotor assessments so flexibility agility strength coordination speed power balance I mean you know a check level four practitioner is knows how to do an assessment that takes four complete hours to do to gather the raw information how are you doing a neurological assessment what were you doing were you using a tool or well I was doing sensory testing with pinwheels and finger drag test testing for the autonomic function you test with skin drag to see if there's sweating to see if the autonomic portion of the nerve is damaged we do muscle testing for the motor function of the nerves so we use health appraisal questionnaires to manage the you know the vagal systems so the internal systems so everything that an orthopedic surgeon would do or a neurosurgeon would do or a physical therapist would do I've incorporated all that into my program because I had to master all that because they sent me the toughest cases that they didn't know what to do with I have a question for you Paul so most people the reality is most people are motivated towards fitness because of for cosmetic reasons for aesthetic reasons right people go to the gym because they want to lose weight because they don't like the way they look or they want to look more attractive and you know for whatever reason that's beautiful what which is fine what is what does the I would like to give you two scenarios you've got two people who are both lean and muscular mm-hmm but one person's healthy and the other person isn't yeah what's the what do you see fit what can you tell physically between the two of them between the healthy and the unhealthy person because you can get lean and muscular yeah and be very unhealthy I'm the guy that coined the term fit sick people for what's going on in the world today that's 20 years ago I was saying we're got a world full of fit sick people and and you know the Australians call it mirror muscle they think they're fit if what they can see in the mirror looks good like a lot of guys only train the front of their body because they can't see the back of their body so you see big chests rock hard abs and you know a torso that's suing its legs for lack of support to quote Charles Polligan but the difference is first of all and this is where being being trained as a check professional is very important because there's a difference between just looking at someone and feeling someone so let me ask you a question when you get into an elevator with 10 people that you don't know how is it you know the guy standing next to you is having a shitty day and the guy on the other side of you is having a good day right how do you know that look on their face the way they carry themselves their energy yeah and you don't even have to see them you can feel them right you can walk into a room where someone's just had a big fight and feel the tension right so I look at people and see what happens when I put my awareness or my attention on them does it energize me does it make me feel emotional does it make me feel afraid anxious nervous I allow their energy to take over my internal system so I can feel what it's like to be them and then I know exactly what's going on what do we feel like you guys I want to know I want to know fucker um what do we feel like uh you each have very unique tones um Adam you're handsome thank you well that's it you have to be handsome to be on the mind that's right um don't make them just don't make them just feel good Paul no don't butter them up like that because he's he's so honest he's just open a door he's gonna say some shit that hurts my feeling you you um you're you're like a youthful vibrant uh young athlete like a Eugene Sandow when he was about 24 wanting to conquer the world but you're also paradoxically at this point now where you realize that to become the man you really want to be is going to require a different kind of work so I see you transitioning now from the young warrior to what I call the king or the queen where you have to get really clear about where you're going to invest your energy moving forward because there's a part of you that says we don't have a lot of time for experiments that don't work anymore because I'm not into not accomplishing my objectives tell me that doesn't sound like me right now did you write that down from this I didn't write that down bro that's he felt that that's some weird shit I'm leaving yeah oh you're next so um tell me that doesn't hear uh you're um you know the vision that comes to me is the tarot card the judge um your energy and the image that rises up in me is of a judge who sits on a bench and hears everything and he's seen a lot of bullshit so there's a part of him that's very skeptical but there's another part of him that says I've been surprised before so before I actually drop the hammer I'm going to hear the other half of this story and I also see you this I also see you having conversations with yourself while you're hearing someone like me talk and it's an inner dialogue that says what would I do if I had two wives how the hell would I handle that what kind of trouble would I get myself in and you know so there's there's a lot of in other words you spend a lot of time evaluating your own judgments of yourself I see going on I see you really working at being honest with yourself and other people not that you weren't before but I the judge is when a judge makes a decision they can put you away right and no judge who's got any moral fabric wants to put someone away that didn't do the crime so I see you as really an aspiring judge who sits in a position to allow people to share whatever is on their mind about any topic but also knows he has the responsibility of dropping the hammer when he shares bullshit boom and and there's a lot of responsibility that goes with that right because when you're going to drop the hammer it's like there's always the fear well what if he is actually right and I'm wrong now I'm going to drop it on my own foot and it's going to hurt what if I hurt this person and they're just immature so they're they're really desperately trying to get someone to listen to them even though they don't realize how silly they're sounding right now to someone who already knows better than that you know so there's a lot of responsibility so it creates an inner wind it's like a cat that's always constantly got to be aware when it's walking in another cat's territory I see that for you your next stage is really embracing that your intention is always to be fair and loving and letting the cat relax because the judge really has to do a lot of thinking the next stage of the judge is to no longer think but ask something greater than itself what the truth really is because all the judgments that we can make with our ego or with our own mind are actually made of those paper boats we were talking about right so the things when you're saying that guy's full of shit well maybe you don't understand him because a lot of people say when Paul check says light comes out of food and light is an information source say he's full of shit but the next thing you know two years later on the news fritz albert pops research showed fuck i've been telling everyone that guy was an asshole he's an idiot for two years now and he was telling the truth damn it right so you know you're you're at a point in your life from my perspective as a shaman who reads energy like that where you're now taking the the the road less traveled which is how do i bring my level of filtering bullshit and support of growth of human beings to the level that that reflects my my actual intention and not maybe my fear of being wrong or my need to have it a certain way and that's a quite a one so the hashtag the judge hashtag the judge i like that the tip i have for you in that regard is uh don't rush simple rule count to ten hear your own judgment like you always do but count to ten and ask the deepest part of yourself is there something that i'm missing here that would change my opinion if i was to see it and if the answer is yes then smell out what it is dig deeper into that person why do you believe that you should eat that way why do you what is your belief that will happen what is what what got you into all this nutrition stuff well you might find that it was driven by tremendous fear because both of that person's parents died of cancer and they felt that if the parents would have just taken a natural health approach that the medical system wouldn't have killed them so now they're on a vendetta so maybe they're just a bit over zealous so my point is once you start going underneath it and seeing what is the belief behind the behavior you often find that you can see more than a judgment on the evidence could make where now before you were judging what they were saying now you're realizing there's a person in there that's wounded and doing their best to share what they think is true but you can see how their perspective got shaped does that make sense it does so that's where i see you're growing into taking the time but the secret is is count to ten and ask something deeper than your mind because there's a fast judge and a strong judge in you and it got you here which is why it's so important because it got you here and then slowing that down just for those few extra seconds which sounds easy but wait till you see how quick those Bruce Lee reflexes are and you start watching them it's true and Justin um we yeah we got a lot of work we might need to do another podcast for this one no you know um i'm gonna share this openly and honestly because i know you guys are like brothers and this isn't it's important for me to be honest um just and you're an easier one for me to read because you actually carry a lot of the same pains that i carried and i can feel them in you um i would summarize you by saying your biggest challenge is you're not sure who you'll be if you let the love come out of you that sometimes you have to hold back for whatever reason it is whether it be fear of not being understood or whether it be you know needing to protect a wound inside of yourself from earlier times in your life but you know sal when we were talking about how we started crying a lot when our when our kids were on the way that's that's for a guy with your upbringing your profile and and the things that you've done to make yourself feel safe as Justin when when those tears start coming through you the first thing that happens is you get thoughts like fuck if any of my friends saw me right now they think i was just out of it man like something's really wrong with me it's quite a walk on the wild side to let the feminine energy flow through you but you know you're not really whole as a man until you're willing to allow yourself to feel uh the feminine energy is that what you're saying huh i'm too manly no i don't that's what i'm getting no you're not you're not too manly yeah at all i think you're you're beautiful i just think that um you're at a point now in your life where as you see the bigger picture and feel the experience of what it really means to be alive and little things like connecting to your food and paying close attention to what how thin the thread is between life and death for us is i mean we assume good water will always be around we assume the air will always be breathable we assume there will always be food at the supermarket we assume that we're relatively safe if we go to a hospital but we know at the same time people are destroyed every minute of every day by making that assumption right and i i just think that your profile is one that you're at a point in your life right now where you're going to find that it's too hard of work to maintain the strength the power and the uh protective mechanism that was once necessary because something inside you says it's working the wrong direction but then you'll also find it's quite scary when a girl starts talking to you about how much she loves you and all of a sudden tears are coming to your eyes and you can't stop them anymore and your part of you is thinking what's going to happen if she sees me crying or you know it's it's it's a strange feeling when that much love starts to come out of you and it can really challenge your conditioning and uh i remember my both of my my wife's laughing their head off at me because some of the singers on the voice could make me cry profusely like i'm like oh my god like when i hear christina aguilera sing and watch her dance it is like seeing god embodied i mean this woman can sing and dance so good it's almost non-human that's my opinion of christina aguilera and i cry a lot when i watch her because it's just like i am seeing the the potential of a woman to be beautiful intelligent artistic capable athletic at such a high level of synthesis that it's so inspiring to know that there's even one human being that has accomplished that much perfection of self-expression that it breaks me open emotionally to know that millions of people are watching that same woman i'm watching right now and getting touched at the conscious or unconscious level and so as we as guys start really experiencing the emotion inside of us that part of us used to hold back for fear of what people might think especially other guys we come to the realization one day wow i've been holding back all this stuff since i was a kid all the times that i really wanted to cry because someone upset me or punched me in the face or whatever it was and i held it back to be a tough guy you realize all that's still down in there and it's like a well of the stuff and when it starts breaking up to the surface and it comes with little things like a kid being born or you know someone writing you a letter saying how much your show touched their heart and then all of a sudden you feel it and you that every minute just like sal has to make judgments you gotta say do i'm i'm gonna let this stuff out right and i'm just saying when you relax into that i think it's almost like a beautiful flower is gonna just feel the full force of the sun and parts of you are gonna open and it's going to be so you're going to feel so connected it's going to almost be like you're living in another person's life but at the same time i think you look back and go if i had done that sooner i wouldn't have appreciated it as much as i do now and now i can connect with how many men are really desperate on the inside for that moistening of the feminine energy but so afraid of what it means to even admit that hashtag the flower well i'll tell you what uh that was nailed it yeah that was a ouch that was uh weird and i don't mean it in a negative sense i mean in a very eerie like you hit it right on uh and we didn't talk yeah they get thicker it tells you yeah that's very very uh and you're saying this is from your shaman training well my shaman training is really my life training um you know when i join the nave american council which requires you to go through a course of shaman and training i spoke to the chief of the organization um and said look you know i know you have this course that i have to do to get these credits but would you be willing to look at what i've created through my check institute and i have a program called pps success mastery which is 12 lessons based on the area that after many many years of coaching people i found there's 12 common roadblocks to living your dream and being free as a human being so i built a lesson for each of the common roadblocks so that's my pps success mastery program so i i asked cloud piler if he would look at that and if he felt that i needed to do the training because i wasn't qualified to be a shaman through his organization without the training that i would do it and so he got back to me and said what you're teaching is way more comprehensive than what we require it is no need for you to do it at all in fact we would like to talk to you about how to make your material accessible to our members so he gave me a grandfather in but my point is my shamanic training is really studying what a shaman is and studying great teachers like arnold mendell who wrote the book the shaman's body and many other fantastic books and who's the developer of process psychology and was trained as a union and as a genius right if you haven't studied any of mendell's stuff arnold mendell um and people like taryn's mccanon alex gray and ken wilber and uh joseph cambell and carl yung and working with people who are just very very sage like with a lot of life experience and doctors and therapists that i've met over the years i gained enough understanding of the subtle energy structures of reality and you know what the chakras stand for what they mean what is the emotional field the astral field what is the mental field what is the causal field what is the field of non-being or nonexistence or what is wu chi versus tai chi um you know so when you understand that a shaman's function is to create harmony and a shaman's function is to deal with you on whatever level of reality you're having challenges which could be the mental level the emotional level could be in past life situations some of these things are too technically really explain in this kind of situation so i have to kind of breeze over it but um that's what a shaman really is and there's as many different kinds of shaman as there are different kinds of exercise coaches or dance teachers right so shaman is kind of just like gross term like training now do do shaman fall because you know there's obviously lots there's lots of shaman just like there's lots of trainers yeah do you have shaman that fall in that same trap of putting on a band aid you know helping someone they leave come back i help them again and they leave and come back rather than okay they do uh i've worked with many people that have gone to shaman and people like john of god in brazil and actually a number of my advanced students have gone off and done comprehensive shamanic training programs um and one of the guys that just took a course from me in england maybe a year ago when i released my check for quadrant mastery coaching mastery program uh is in an advanced training program in the jungle and he had been on his first round of training for four months and i explained in class as a shaman the reason i teach the kinds of or practice the things i'm teaching here is because if people don't look at the beliefs behind the behaviors they will keep repeating the same belief over and over again and therefore the same behavior no matter whether they go to a shaman and get their pain taken away with feathers drums crystals or psychedelics right it doesn't matter what happens if you keep lifting wrong you're going to keep hurting your back as a metaphor and all the aspirin and all the magic in the world will only take that pain away for a few hours so um there is the same problems in shamanism because most shaman don't have adequate training or knowledge of the human soul the human life cycle the human life experience and the depth of things involved such as diet and movement right they might know a lot about the different worlds or have a very complex model of mythology or theology that they can work with or teach you how to dance or chant or sing but if they don't know how to teach you how to eat or how to move your body correctly or how to set goals effectively dot dot dot then you know it's kind of like every philosophy my philosophy is that you can't go any lower in a living philosophy than being aware of what makes you happy what you're willing to do to create happiness for yourself you have to be paying attention to what you put into your body because you literally are what you eat you have to be aware of how you're using your body with movement to keep it nourished and fit enough and healthy enough to do what it is that you call your dream and you have to be conscious of what rest really is and how to use rest effectively or you can have all those things right but if you don't know how to how to rest properly you'll burn yourself right out you'll be a happy fit sick tired person and you'll have to learn to slow down so my point is you cannot take a living philosophy below rest doctor quiet movement awareness doctor movement happiness what is it that i'm doing all this for what is it that feels satiating to me what gives me a sense of willingness to participate fully in life and then doctor diet how am i feeling the adventure and nourishing it if you have a philosophy that misses any one of those you now have a wheel that will not roll take a four spoke wheel knock one spoke out and it goes flat it can't roll and so once you get down to the the the number four which is the number of wholeness numerologically if you go deeper than that you end up with problems in living biological systems excellent what is there one thing you could leave our listeners with one piece of advice that you could leave them with that they could take and start applying yes how quote tick not hawn a flower is made of non flower elements when you're looking at a flower there's nothing that you're looking at that was made by a flower it is all earth water sunlight and air and space that make a flower a flower would you agree yeah okay well a human being is made of non human elements so we must remember that what we really are is much grander than what we think we are because just like it takes a whole universe to make a flower it takes a whole universe to make sal adam justin dave paul and every one of us and if we realize that we're part of something so much bigger than we can conceive of and that that is guiding us to being the fullest that we can be then we will have the joy of opening like the flower has the joy of opening and the flower doesn't think about it it just follows the sun excellent uh boom that's my drop right there my drop just like i expected again uh one of our interesting um and uh just exciting i guess uh interviews i just really appreciate it we really appreciate it having you look forward to more there's no doubt in our mind that we'll be uh doing this a lot paul you've been on a lot of shows right you've been interviewed a lot oh man hundreds and hundreds and hundreds who's your favorite you guys are right up yeah there we go no you guys are alive you know you guys are uh you guys are so full of life and so full of love too you know i feel like i can have the joy of breathing and being myself with you guys and i want to thank you because it's hard for a guy like me to find a place where you can do that without having to look at a lot of people squirming and cringing and getting pissed off and getting stiff in the jaw and walking out of my lectures or walking out of my classes or whatever so to be able to sit naked with you guys and enjoy it makes me feel like i'm at home and like i'm at heaven and for you guys to be able to do that at your age is pretty evolved you guys are really pushing the envelope here excellent i appreciate it thank you awesome compliment uh check it out mind pump media dot com 30 days of coaching is still available for free you can also find us on instagram at mind pump media you can find my personal page at mind pumps out of mind pump adam and justin at mind pump justin thank you for listening to mind pump if your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance check out our discounted rgb super bundle at mind pump media dot com the rgb super bundle includes maps anabolic maps performance and maps aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by sal adam and justin to systematically transform the way your body looks feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos the rgb super bundle is like having sal adam and justin as your own personal trainers but at a fraction of the price the rgb super bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mind pump media dot com if you enjoy this show please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing mind pump to your friends and family we thank you for your support and until next time this is mind pump