 Did you ask him his opinion on the new Tony Martin album? Here we go, guys. We're on our live. Live, without a net, at the six o'clock news slot. We're competing with the six o'clock news. I love it. Stephane Giroux, for those of you who don't know this, he was just on the Montreal CTV news, and he did his Clark Kent put on his Iron Man shirt. And here he is. Did you years? Yes, you know what? Let me just record this here for a sec. For safekeeping. Recording in progress. Recording in progress. Here we go. Let's say hi to Kenny. Kenny's Kenny's already watching. Let's say hi to our friend Kenny Castle. And he's always watching. Don't say anyone kill you. All right, today, guys. January 14th, a new Tony Martin album. Thorns coming out on Battle God Productions and Dark Star Records. This is his third solo album. I mean, all these years and his third solo album, of course, he's appeared on so many guests, appearance and albums and bands. And of course, best known for Black Sabbath. There it is. You know, Alan, I remember years ago, you were telling me, Jimmy, Jimmy, you got to listen to Tony Martin's version of Black Sabbath. And 10 years ago, I was like, I don't know, man. And then it's just something that I've learned to really love over the years, his era. All right. So Alan, first impressions, what do you think about the new Thorns album by Tony Martin? Well, the first impression, I mean, was the second half of the album. I think I texted him, what are you, 12 years old again? But listening to it a lot more, it's an enjoyable album. I mean, I've always liked Tony's voice. I thought he was always a great fit between Ray Gillen and Ronnie James Dio. Again, tons of, tons of all those albums of Black Sabbath I got, including my first favorite, Cross Purposes. I mean, it's a good solo album, I find. All right, Perrin, I'll kind of like moderate this, just so everybody, you know, doesn't talk over each other. Perrin, what did you think? Yeah, first, I'll echo Alan's thoughts. And I'll say that I've always been on team Tony Martin. I've always think he's been a little underappreciated. Obviously not easy to follow in the shoes of all the great Sabbath singers that came before him. But if you judge the body of work on its own, it's a really strong body of work. My personal favorite is Eternal Idol. But like Alan, really like Headless Cross, Cross Purposes, there's just so many good records there and many good songs on each of them. So I've always been in Camp Martin. And I really like this record when Jimmy kind of sent us the advance to review. I won't say I was super excited. I was expecting just kind of middle to good heavy metal. But I have to say, I've been listening to this all weekend. I went back and listened to it a couple of times. And a note I took is this. It's familiar enough to be satisfying to Tony's longtime fans, but it's different enough to be fresh and interesting. Right. And now I say that because there's some really interesting stuff. I don't know if you want us to get into tracks yet, Jimmy. But no, they're just going over all impressions. So Stefan, now I'm really interested in Stefan's opinion here because he's Mr. Purist. He's the purist of purist of metalheads. Give this first impression. We won't go into the whole album yet, but first impression. I didn't like it. No? Yeah, but you know me, I'm a purist and we'll have to get into that. Look, I cannot deny that the guy is a cut above the rest when it comes to singing heavy metal. Black Sabbath for me was the quintessential recipe for how to do it right. In the 70s, a band that reinvented itself with Ronnie James Dio, but it became a completely different band. But most of this stuff after Dio was always, yes, but you know, so you had the Ian Gillan era, Born Again, which was a great album, if not for Ian Gillan singing. And then you had... What about the production? What about the production? That's a whole other show, yes. That's a whole other show. Yeah, I have this theory about Born Again. I don't wanna go through it, but I suspect that it's so much dope while recording that it screwed up their ears while they were mixing. Yeah, and some drinking for good measure. And everything after that, I've always seen it as Tony Iomi solo album with whatever singer he had at the time. I thought that Glenn Hughes was a fantastic singer. But everything after that, you know, whether it's Ray Gillan or Tony Martin, I always felt that it was more about justifying a vocalist on Tony Iomi albums, rather than wanting to be black Sabbath. You need a guy on stage to sing, you know, Children of the Grave and that kind of songs. But I think that Tony Martin was a great, you know, I wouldn't call him a crutch, that wouldn't be fair. But he was, you know, Tony Iomi's recording an album says, I need a singer, this guy fits the bill. I never felt that Tony Iomi had much respect for his singer. In fact, when I read his autobiography, Iomi, I didn't feel he made it sound, he showed much respect for him. Now, I discovered much later that Tony Martin was a lot more than a singer, that he was a multi-instrumentalist and that he had a much, much broader range than what we've known him for. But here's the thing, the guy is in his mid-60s now, he hasn't done an album in over a decade. And I'm wondering, what is he bringing to the scene? What? Okay, we're gonna pause right there. We're gonna pause right there. We're gonna pause right there. Hold on, hold on, hold on. The purist has spoken. Okay, I'm gonna say, and for my opinion, very quickly, I was completely floored by this album. So I'm like the opposite end of the spectrum. And I was like, wow, he's bringing it. He is showing the world that he was the black Sabbath singer that so everybody kind of hit him or didn't appreciate at the time. So Alan, what do you wanna say? No, I mean, the Stefan touched on so many points. I mean, these albums came out, including the Tony Seventh Star. Those were in the, right away, within a week, was in the $3.99 bin at A&A Records. It was a joke. We could argue, Born Again, I know you love that album, Jim, and it was a down first time, but after that, you couldn't even find these albums if you did, they were in the discount bin. So going back, if we visit them years later, I can appreciate Tony Martin filling in the job that he, and he was probably put into a very uncomfortable position, including from what I read, the humanizer in a recent interview with Tony Martin, he said he was even called in to replace Dio on that last minute. So it goes back to what Stefan was saying, the lack of respect for him as a singer, whatever his lack of performance he had at the time, which he was, that's what people were critical about him. He didn't live up to it on stage. I think his voice carries through on all the albums, including this. But let me say, Jimmy, if I could pick up on your point, let's pretend this was just an anonymous album that was dropped into our inboxes and said, hey, Metal Voice Crew, can you review this? If I listened to the album objectively, which I did this weekend, I would say this is a great, not a great, not a very good record, irregardless of if this person was in Black Sabbath or not. Now, the fact that Tony was in Black Sabbath gives it a bit of an audience and a bit of a head start because people want to listen to it. There's a curiosity factor there. Whether Tony Martin was in Black Sabbath or not, if I judge this album on its own merit, I was very pleasantly surprised how good a record this was. And first one, two, three songs, I was like, okay, good, great. And I think the album just really took off. And they were like, talking offline of Jimmy, there's 11 tracks on the album. I would say five of the tracks are very good to excellent and six of them are okay to good. I don't think there was a bad track on the record and I really think it's solid. To me, this is one of those records that when we're kind of doing things at the end of the year, it's gonna get disadvantaged a bit because it came out so early in the year and people might forget it. But for me, it's an early candidate. I don't think it'll be a top five record of the year, but I can see this being in a lot of people's top 10 and top 20 list for the year. I think it's that good a record. So, forget Black Sabbath or not. Good music, good pipe. Yes, Stefan, is there anything that you did enjoy on this album that like- Yeah, no, look, look. You know, maybe I came on too hard at the beginning. You always do. Because I wouldn't be an understatement. I think it has a lot to do with my attachment to anything that Tony Iommi makes, you know? I mean, he'd record an album full of farts and I'd probably buy it. So it's hard for me to look at Tony Martin without, you know, the crew that he had, you know, when recording Eternal Idol. And this is what I find difficult is that this is an album where the songs were written by him and the people with him. And it's a Tony Martin album, but Tony Martin for me is without Black Sabbath is like, yeah, so you're an also ran. But you are right. If I was to take him out of my head as the guy who did this Eternal Idol, which incredible album that I still listen to to this day. Yeah, maybe I could be able to say, you know what, come to think of it. It's a pretty good record comparing to a lot of the crap that comes out these days. And God knows we've seen quite a bit. So yeah, as a performer, as a singer and as a recording artist, he has what it takes. You know, it's a professional record with professional quality musicians and with songs that hold their own very well. I just cannot find it. I cannot define it within a style that I can identify with that I can sort of get hooked on it. This album lacks any type of hooks that will make me wanna play over and over. You know, anyways, that's your opinion. And then that's much respected. Personally, I would say this album was full of hooks. I'm at the other end here. I think it's full of hooks. And I think he's been vindicated from all the people who sort of been, again, sort of toss him in the quarter. And you know what? I'm not sure if it was Perrin or Yustaphan who said that Tony Iomi kind of buried him or what was that? What did he just say in his book? He just basically didn't, he just put him on a pedestal. You know, he kind of just dismissed him. That's the right word. He dismissed him. And I find that, yeah. I thought it was very mean of Tony Iomi to do this because Tony Martin, first of all, if you consider his two stints in the band, he stayed there quite a bit. And he held the band together. He held, not the band together, but he held the marquee name, if I can use that word, that allowed Sabit to continue using the name Sabit. And, you know, when Iomi dismisses him as a guy, oh, I got sick and tired of him, you know, hanging out at the bar and bragging that he was the singer of Black Sabit. Well, excuse me, sir, you know, who are you to dismiss a guy who probably worked a lot harder and probably a lot more sober than half the guys you work with, you know? I thought it was unfair to the individual. I agree. Now, Tony, you see what I'm getting at? Yeah, I get it. Alan, Alan, but I'm going to pause right there. The point I'm trying to make, if I can finish my sentence. Go ahead, go ahead. Is that no matter how great Tony Martin is, it's not Black Sabit. He's not Black Sabit, you know? And I just having a hard time separating the two. I got it, I got it. So, Florence, go ahead, Alan, go. I just want to add the question is the fans had earlier. You know, Ronnie Atkins released a fantastic solo album last year. Beth Biford, you know, he has some good solo albums out. So it goes back, I had the same question as the fan. Where does this fit in? How relevant is this album to today's market? But okay, how's this? Okay, let's go around. What songs that everybody like off the album? You know, let's, for me, and by the way, guys, just so you know, I just found out from Ralph, who just did the interview that Alan was talking about on All Miss Human, Pamela Moore actually sings on the last song from Queensrack. That is the voice, which I did not know up until yesterday. It's Pamela Moore singing on Thorns, which is I think is an excellent, excellent track, an acoustic piece and a sort of duet, right? Which is beautiful. I couldn't think who that was. I just, I recognized that voice, but didn't know who it was. It was Pamela Moore. So, all right, round the table. Perrin, your favorite tracks. Well, so like I said, I thought there were five standouts, but maybe I'll give you my top three in the interest of time. So my favorite track, which is what I thought made the album so interesting is a song called Crying Wolf. Because there's actually an acoustic arrangement in that song. And I think whoever had the idea to arrange the song that way is brilliant. And when I say an acoustic arrangement, it's not a ballad. It's like a dark, interesting song, but with the acoustics and even a little bit of keyboard and organ in there as well. And I just been listening to that song over and over. So folks, when the record comes out- It's the tempo. I think it's like a Bossa Nova tempo or a tango tempo. That's what the tempo is. I thought it was so interesting and outside of the box. And I really think it featured, it's really why, like I said, I said this album will be satisfying to his longtime fans, but maybe interesting to people who haven't heard them before. Now, back more on the Sabbath song, the third track on the album or maybe it's- Book of Shadows? Book of Shadows. I think for people who kind of like that epic dark tale, the way we know Tony is a singer, I think that's the song for them. That's the shining or one of those songs. Book of Shadows is definitely that and it's vintage Tony. And then my other, my third favorite is called No Shame at All. So kind of nice, bouncy, kind of bass groove in there. A little, you hear a bit of a chunkiness and the sludginess of Sabbath, but it's not a rehash of Sabbath. So yeah, Crime Wolf, Book of Shadows, No Shame at All. I like a couple of others as well, but those are my top three. No Shame at All had the same thing as they got that Sabbath groove, but with hair metal lyrics, right? Yeah. Well, I don't know if writing is anyone in the group's strength, you know, like they're, you know, but hey, from a musical standpoint, to a pleasing to the ear standpoint, very pleasing to the ears, these songs. Alan, three songs, three songs that you really liked off this album. I like, you know, I apparently nailed it. I mean, I like Book of Shadows, Thorns, title track. Title track's really good. And, you know, you're talking about Crime Wolf. It's that, you know, we're not talking about Dream Theater in this album. We're going to do all these little side tracks for five minutes. He carries the beat, the beats, the riff or the beat, whatever you want to call it runs right through. I think those are the two that stand out for me. All right, is that fine? It's funny that you both mentioned just said it, The Shadows Song, Book of Shadows, because it is not, it doesn't sound like a Sabbath song, but it sounds like an extremely well constructed song, you know. It sounds like a Tony Martin era Sabbath song. It doesn't. Yeah, the choir sound, the, you know, the, it has many, many layers for it, which shows that it's not just, okay, let's throw in any tracks we want. Like there's serious work in that songs, but I cannot be, I cannot help being attracted to, you know, nowhere to fly, Black Widow Angel, which, you know, have this old Sabbath sound to it. That's because it's what I like the best. But the fact is run like the devil. Hey, good song, you know. The digger, this is your damnation. You know, usually, okay, low, acoustic, doodly, do I want this? And then I decided to play it a couple of times and I thought that wouldn't fit into a Black Sabbath record, but given the quality of the musicians in his band, I thought, you know what? It belongs there. It belongs there, it's a good song. And it highlights the fact that, you know, he has a sensitive streak to his music and it's nice to see it there. Like I said, for me, it's not the album I would offer somebody who doesn't know a thing about heavy metal, but I have to give it to him. He's a decent songwriter and it comes across on many tracks. Well, I would say not only, go, go, go. The acoustic tracks, you know, it's kind of like you listen to Tommy Kieffer's solo album at some points, you know, that's what I took away because it's really like, I remember saying a different type of beat and something that's completely new and refreshing. It was outside of the box. Like honestly, you know, the last acoustic song that Stefan mentioned, this is your damnation. It's almost like a spoken word. Yeah. He's speaking and scatting more than he is singing over the acoustic. And honestly, I kind of just said Black Sheep, the album is a risk taking track, but it comes across well. Like I really think, you know, for 11 tracks, it's a pretty diverse record. You know, you have some Sabbath-y stuff. You have some Tony Martini Sabbath stuff and you have some really outside of the box stuff. Like the record is an interesting listen. It's really, it's not an album of 11 of the same song, one after the other after the other and I give them a lot of credit for that. But nobody mentioned Damn By You, which is this horn keyboard section. It sounds like horns, but it's probably keyboards and the great guitar, it's kind of starts off really slow. It's melodic and then it picks up on the guitar solo, then it goes back slow again. So that's out of the box. That's sort of diverse. That's more of a musicians, musicians and as well as like a big single, if you ask me, Damn By You, that's kind of like, and I think that the vocals on this album are stellar. I mean, his vocals are just out of this world. I mean, I would prefer this album over all three of his solo albums or the other two, plus most of the Sabbath albums. I just think he's really shining. That's just me. Well, you know, maybe one of the mistakes I did before reviewing that album or listening to it was that I blasted really, really loud back to back eternal idol and tear. Is that how you pronounce it? Tear. Yeah. And I blasted them and blasted them. Thank you. And then, okay, right into Tony Martin, maybe I should have listened to something else. So I should not have primed myself with the old stuff. Maybe that's the mistake I made. Maybe I should re-listen because the tracks I did write down, I've said here that I felt were above average. Maybe they do deserve additional listen. Tony Martin is the only one I've never seen live with Sabbath. Here's a little story. A week before Glenn Hughes was kicked out or left or fell out. I had interviewed him about 35 years ago and he said to me after the show with Wasp and everything, come and see me backstage. So I'm like watching the show and it's funny it doesn't look or sound like Glenn Hughes, you know, and at the end of the show, no, it's some new guy named Ray Gillan. Oh, shit. So I guess I can't go backstage. Alan, were you there? Were you there or pairing me over there? Yeah, I was at that show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I did not see Glenn Hughes. No one knew. You had to read the paper two days later to find out who to signal us that nobody knew. There was a guy that night arguing with me that was Ronnie James Dio who was back. I said, no, that can't be, you know? But the point is I've seen them with obviously with Ozzy, with Dio the first time around and with Ian Gillan and with Ray Gillan. I never had a chance to come across live Tony Martin, so I don't know. I wasn't. I don't think many of us did because I don't think they toured much in the U.S. They did a few weeks here and there and that was it. They played metropolis, so they played theaters, right? They played two years in a row. They played here at Metropolis in Montreal with a motorhead opening. And I think Tiamat, if anyone remembers Tiamat opened one of those shows. So our friend Orlando always speaks about being there. So we got to get him on the horn, get Orlando on the horn. Tony Martin version of Black Sabbath played metropolis here in Montreal a couple times. He was in 2005. I think it was for headless cross and then for cross purposes. Yeah. So, okay, the production guys, the production. When you listen to sound, does this sound like, you know, like for me, I'd put 10 out of 10. The production is solid. Yeah. Yeah. Pricingly good for, you know, a release on a smaller label. Like, I don't know what kind of budget they had. And of course, but you know, I expected since the record company gave us a stream, we don't have a physical copy or anything like that. So the fact that we're listening to a stream, I was really surprised at how well it was produced and the sound quality. I think, well, I don't want to cut off Alan. I want to hear Alan on this. Oh no, I was just going to say little things like the orchestra you mentioned earlier, Jim, on Damn by You, all the acoustic guitars, the great sounding acoustic guitars, the chance of Book of Shadows. There's a lot of stuff happening in the background that, and that's to the song, but it's not really in your face. There's a lot of little things happening in the back that I thought the production was really, really solid on it. Yeah. The vocal, I was just going to say the vocal, Stefan. What would you rate the vocals on this album? Just the vocals. If you were to say the vocals on this album. The guy's a professional singer and he's on cue and his voice is still very good for his age. So I don't have a problem with his voice and you know what's fun about the production and all artists are probably cursing this now, but you can record a professionally sounding album these days with a tiny fraction of what you used to have to spend 30, 40 years ago. You know, what would pro tool and all these equipment. So it's become much easier and much cheaper to record and produce a quality recording. And I think Tony and his band were extremely good at exploiting this. And I think we need to talk about his band. I think that, you know, he's well-surrounded, you know. He has, you know, Scott McClelland. Scott McClelland and Halcyon, yeah, yeah. I didn't really know Scott, but the rest of his band, you know, Greg Smith, Mark Magnus Rosen, Danny Needham, these are guys with fabulous resumes. And it's good because I don't really know Tony's songwriting skills, but once he's surrounded by quality professional musicians who are there to fill the gap to whatever shortcomings you may have as an artist, it adds to the quality of the final product. And this is why, you know, this sounds much better produced than, you know, born again, for example. One of my favorite albums, by the way. But anyways, as the world burns, as the world burns. I mean, no one even spoke about that song. That's like the wall of metal sound. I guess the whole world has heard that song because it was, I believe one of the first singles. See, funny enough, it's the first single and it's good, but I think there's better songs than that first single. I think it's a safe first single in terms of inviting in people who always liked what Tony did. I think so, I think it's smart in that respect, but the album is more diverse than that song. But also another note, Black Widow Angel, that bass solo in the middle. It's like, what's going on here? You know, it's just incredible bass solo right in the middle. And it sounds like this could have even been a Ronnie James Deo song, but anyway. I think it could have been on Dehumanizer or even, exactly. But I think Para nailed it. When you listen to that first song as a single, you're like, okay, you know, it's, you know, it's a- What I expected. But then when you listen to the whole album, you say, okay, that's the one they did have to lead off. You know, to get people like, play it safe. That's a great way of calling it, I agree. Because there's, you know, it was not that great of a track as a lead off, but when you listen to the whole thing, it had to be about what is in life. Well, I'm pretty proud that Tony has vindicated himself, not that he needed vindication, but there were a lot of people in North America, not so much in Europe that said, oh, Tony Martin, Tony Martin, but I believe this will bring in some more folks to his camp or fans to his camp after the year of this album. That's my feelings on it. Well, I hope he gets a chance to prove himself life, for example, because as you know, a lot of bands that had a short-lived singer or a singer during their down period, a lot of them didn't do too well individually as solo artists, you know? I mean, I know we often talk about how great Blaise Bailey is, but go see the guy in concert and you're lucky to have a hundred paying customers, you know, and Tony might, I don't know if you would fall into that category, but building and maintaining and following, you know, when the band you were in is either retired or back to their original manner. Stefan, to your point, Tony Martin was one of the only Sabbath singer who could do all eras. Like he could do the Dio and he could do the Ozzy and the Ozzy songs that Ozzy can't even do and the Dio songs that of course Dio could do, but he could bridge that gap. And when he was playing live, he did bridge that gap, which, you know, Ozzy can't do Dio, you know, or he could never do Dio. He couldn't even do his own songs, you know? There's a cross-purposes live album that I have at some place here in the collection. It's a little bit hard to find. And I think if you listen to that album, you'll come away really impressed of how well Tony can pull off the different eras on the different Sabbath singers. All right, any last words? Yeah, go ahead. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that, you know, Tony Martin is not a guy who grew out of, you know, a high school dropout, joined a bunch of fellow acid heads and who suddenly becomes a rock star. This is a bonafide musician, you know, who developed his chops over the years as a professional. So when you do that, it's extremely easy, as I said earlier, to adapt to whatever you're asked to do, you know? I mean, to get a drummer from Venom playing on a Tony Martin album is quite a stretch, but it shows the talent of the Venom drummer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, around the table before we shut it all down. Alan, what albums are you looking forward to in the new year, 2022? If you just ran off the top of your head. Well, I mean, Tobias Salmon has been extremely quiet. He was the guy who's pumping out albums every year. I think we're due for an invitation. I've heard some rumors. I read it somewhere. I'm trying to follow up today because I knew you were gonna ask me that question. And I would love to see it in either any guy or invitation album in 2022. All right, turn. Look, I mean, there's some big name albums coming out this year. So without a doubt, you know, Scorpions, Megadeth, Queen Strike, Boy Vod, you know, when those bands put out records where we're all interested, but I'll tell you the three records, Saxon also, by the way, but three bands I'm really interested in hearing. Our friends, our local friend, Rick Hughes, Sword, he's had this album in the can for a while. For like five years. Yeah, well, we're waiting. I think we heard the in-command single last year. Yeah, it was really good. I think we're all really impressed by that. Yeah, you're right. I really wanna see and hear Rick's full album and Sword's full album. Number two, and I wore this shirt for this reason today. Oh, King's X. King's X. I don't think King's X has put out an album or new material in over a decade. And King's X, I think you asked the question this week on the Middle Boys, Jimmy, your top three underrated bands. And King's X was my number one underrated band. And I'm really looking forward to seeing what Ty, Jerry, and Doug come up with next. You know, yeah, King's X is an acquired taste, but I think they're great. I think they're interesting. And I can't wait to hear a modern take on King's X. But the thing I'm most looking forward to, because I think they're the most interesting band to come out in the 2000s. And you never know if you're gonna get heavy metal or ABBA from them, is Ghost. So Ghost is- Oh, look at you, Mr. Ghost. Ghost is- Look at you, Mr. Ghost. I'm dreaming of a few people on the Tobias theme saying that, you know- All I got when I did that Ghost interview, all I got was, why do you keep cutting him off? Why do you keep cutting him off? All the comments are saying, why do you keep cutting him off? Why do you keep cutting him off? Just what I do. You gotta let Cardinal Coppia Papa, you gotta let him speak. I would always laugh at me for when I cut people off on interviews. You're excited, you're excited. Time short, time short. Okay, I'm gonna tell you, for me, Scorpions, I'm really looking forward to the Scorpions because I really think this time around, I hope they're gonna be a lot heavier creator I'm looking forward to, because it's been some time. And Sword too, I'd love to hear the rest of Sword. And Saxon, sorry. Stefan, what are you looking forward to? Look, I was about, yeah, Sax, Scorpions, obviously, it's the one we are the most impatient about because Cloth's mind is not a guy who's losing his voice, I still think he's got it. I did not know about Sword. I always like- Aren't you buddies with him? Yeah, yeah. In fact, Dan, the drummer, is a camera man at our competing TV station, TVA, across the street from CTV. Bet you didn't know that. And look, you know, I have a soft spot for power metal and symphonic metal, which my daughter crammed through my head in the past 10 years. And I always went with her because she liked to head bang with me. And I always looked at her music, so we're like, yeah. But she finally turned me on to some of them. One of her favorite band is called Within Temptation, and I really, really dig them. And I wanna see, I wanna hear their new album, I think, which is Chew in a few months because I really, really got into them. The big fire and maiden in Ottawa, if it all happens in this fall. Yeah, I don't know. Well, here's the thing. You know, I got my tickets for maiden in Ottawa with Within Temptation opening, but the show is in October. Yeah, yeah, you're right. And my daughter is due to have her baby in June. I'm gonna be a granddad. Twice. She's coming with me to see Judas Priest Queens, right? Which means she'll be very big. We hope. And you guys better make room because we're all sitting together. But then she says, you know, October, Ottawa, baby, three months old, I don't know. So she may or may not come to me, come with me to Ottawa. And congratulations on the grandchild, Stefan. That's really nice. Metal grinddad. Makes me feel old. We'll have to get Rick Hughes on the show when he sort of releases that album. And I'd love to do a Death Dealer show with Nephew at any time. Oh yeah, that's a thing, that's it. Yeah, it was just over Jean-Pierre Scottage the other day. My wife and I, him and his wife, we had a wonderful dinner. And he made his Quebec tortillaire and he wrote Death Dealer on the crust. You didn't grow up in Montreal. If you didn't see Death Dealer open for someone at the Palladium or the Spectrum. So I certainly did. Alan, he used to work at Rock on Stock back in the day. JP, right? Jean-Pierre, he used to work with you, right? At Rock on Stock? No, the band members did not work there. They lived in the building once in a while. They gave us a hand. But Jean-Pierre is, I stay in touch with Mark, the guitarist very much. Mike, the singer, we're friends on Facebook, but I haven't seen him in ages. But Jean-Pierre is the only one that I'm regular contact with. He's still very much the consumed musician. And when I was at his place, I saw his room where he keeps the vinyl CDs and t-shirts and he mails them out every week. There's always somebody ordering from around the world and he's bored and happy, ship, signed, thank you. And talk about a guy who can embrace his past. Is he gonna be releasing an album? Do you know if they're releasing it? Are they gonna do any music or is that it? The band is spent in the sense that, these are guys who met in high school. By the time the band was, by the time the band broke up, they all went in different directions. And as he said, is there anything that connects me to the guys, some of whom I haven't seen in 10, 20, 30 years? Maybe not, you know? I mean, some of them completely dropped out of music. I remember about five years ago, they got together for a jam session just for fun, just for fun. And the singer didn't show up because he, you know, he chickened out at the last minute. Yves Pidneau, the guitarist, the second guitarist who currently lives in Sagina, says, I don't mind showing up to the session, but I no longer have an electric guitar. I'm gonna have to borrow somebody else's. That's when you know it's over. You know, Dan, the drummer, Dan, the drummer, last time I saw him, but he was playing in an Elvis cover band. And I only found out because, you know, my wife likes Elvis, so I go to this little club with like 20 people, twice my age. And then I look at the drummer. Then? Then? And we had a few drinks. We had fun, but he's managing bars these days. He's a businessman, you know. And don't forget that when bands get back together, they want us to get back together. Very often these guys, you know, let's say you have a job that pays you a decent salary at a 75, 80 or 100,000 a year for whatever you've become after you stop making music. And the guys say, let's do music again. Oh, great. When can we rehearse? Well, Tuesday, there's soccer for my daughter. Wednesday, there's this. Thursday, I go to church. Friday, my wife is in crazy. And we get your tire. Saturday, 12th day. And then he says, okay, but let's say we drop everything. Well, I'm not going to drop my career in case we may end up doing clubs that may pay me half or a quarter of what I'm making now. So when you look at it this way, it's easy to understand why a lot of vintage bands that are not financially independent will say, nah, not sure I'm ready. All right. On that note, guys, I got a run. Thank you so much. Alan, it was a real pleasure to finally be able to do the show with you. No, this year after watching for decades on the local news, it's a real pleasure. And opening up that second half dealer CV and seeing you writing the the intro, all the liner notes. I'm like, hey, Stefan's a metalhead. I didn't know. Yeah, are you on this one there, Stefan? You're in this one, right? If you look, you'll see the liner notes. I wrote them because back then we were living together. We're sharing an apartment. Yeah, Eve and I. And I drove them to this with this other friend where we're rehearsing, practicing new songs. And because, hey, I have a pretty good memory of date, places, times, names, and everything. Somebody double crossed me 10, 20, 30 years ago, I remember. So, and because I never really took any psychedelic drugs or never consumed much alcohol back in those days, I do have a pretty clear memory of what was said, what was done, who said what. So that's why, essentially, when the record company asked to write the liner notes, the band said, you know, Stefan, let me trust your memory is better than mine. I was very, very excited. It was very excited. Yeah, it's great. It's great. Absolutely great. And we'll definitely interview Def Dealer. So the album, but I just, I want to go back to Tony Martin, Thorns, coming out January 14th, Battle God Productions and Dark Star Records. I definitely think, and I'm sure most of the guys here think it's definitely worth picking up. And, you know, congrats to Tony Martin for, you know, keeping it going after all these years. I was rough at the beginning of this, about the album, but I'm willing to take another listen. We want him over. Eight on 10. Eight on 10. Check it out, folks. Guys, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much, everybody. They will.