 Hello everybody. Are you having a good time at work? Hand up if you're having a good time at work. Hand up if you're really looking forward to this copywriting presentation. Hand up if you don't like taking your hand up. It's my classic joke every single time, but I still love it. Welcome today. I'm going to be giving you not 10 but 12 ways you can improve your website copy to drive more conversions. I thought of two more and added them in. So who am I? Well you had that beautiful introduction by Amanda Doodle-Doodle. I have three businesses. The recipe for SEO success, where I've helped about 8,000 small business owners, bloggers, solar printers. Build more Google G, strive more traffic and conversions through my membership courses, podcasts, courses, all that kind of stuff. And then the cover copywriting school. Members of the cover copywriting school here today. Where I teach budding and established copywriters how to have a more successful and profitable business. The membership directory and another podcast for that. I also kind of am still an SEO copywriter although I don't really do anything for that anymore. But I spent a good 10 years helping big brands write copy that yes got them to the top of the Google rankings. But also really connected with their customers and drove conversions. So that's what I'm going to be talking about today. So what is conversion copywriting? Well really it's about writing persuasive copy. So most of us can put one word in front of another. You know there's difference between our colon and our full stop hopefully. And you know we can maybe list out the features and benefits of our products. But persuasive copy is a whole different ballgame. It boils down to understanding what emotions you need to evoke in the reader to make them take action. So you really have to understand your customers well so that you can understand how they're feeling and how to use those feelings to your own financial gain. So some people would call it sales copy but I think a lot of people feel very icky about writing sales copy. It feels a bit American a bit sleazy a bit like you know infomercially. But one thing I would say is that you know if you're writing copy about your products and services you're simply trying to explain them to the reader. Someone's coming to your site and looking at your products they want affirmation. They want to feel good about the purchase decision they're going to make. So you're actually writing feel good copy. That's how you should feel about it. And there's a line that says you know if someone had a disease and you had the cure you wouldn't feel bad about explaining the cure. And for the people who are coming to your site they have a problem and you have the solution that can solve it. And you're going to explain that and do that through conversion copywriting. So conversion copywriting is really about being laser focused on the goal. It brings it down to a single goal. That's what we're trying to do. People to take action. We want people to do a thing. So if we think of marketing and blogging as kind of to build trust and authority and engage our readers, conversion copywriting is different to that. It's about persuading people to take action, to buy the thing, to download the whatever, to click the button, whatever it may be. We're trying to make people do stuff. So that's what we're going to talk about. And I'm now going to give you 10 tips. No, not 10, 12. It's actually 13. But we'll get through them, don't we? I speak quite fast, so stay with me. So the first tip is that we really need to define our goal. For everything we're doing. So often we'll be like, it's a sales page. I want to sell my things. But in that sales page there's heaps of different copies. There's different elements. What does each element on the page need to do? What does that button need to do? What action are we trying to make people take? We need to be clear on that. We need to make sure that our goals are specific and actionable. So we don't say, I want people to grow my email list. That's not action. The action is I want people to click on this button, go through and sign up for my email newsletter, and that will then grow my list. So we have to be very specific about what we want people to do. The next tip, and it sounds like an obvious one, is that we need to understand our audience. It's not about you. So I often, when I read websites, I do the wee-wee test. I look at a website and I do the wee-wee test. How many times in the copy do you say, we do this and we are great. We have brilliant word test developers and we do this and wee-wee-wee. I don't care about you. I care about what you can do for me. Have a look at your copy and every time you've used the word wee, see if you can turn it around to the audience and talk to the audience, rather than just banging your drum and blowing your trumpet. So the best insights about our customers, about our product, sorry, come from our customers, yeah? We need to know them inside out. It's the only way we can bridge the gap between them and us. So one way you can do this is for design personas. So it's often something that I do. So I come up with a name, we'll call him Clive, and I think about what would Clive want, what does Clive look like, where does he live, all that demographic information, how old is he, is he married, is he hot, all that kind of stuff. But that kind of doesn't really tell us that much. Knowing that someone's 45, married, hot, how does that help me sell them a product? You know what I mean? That's he for people. So we need to go a bit further inside brain. And we need to think about what Clive's problem is, what's your problem Clive, and how are we going to solve it, yeah? What problem does someone come to the page with and how are you going to solve it? And the way that I do this is I use something called the BDF principle or thing, or acronym. So BDF stands for beliefs, desires, and fears. So what we need to do is dig deeper into our minds and help ourselves understand their preconceived beliefs, their desires, and their fears about buying from us. So is anyone in the room here a WordPress developer? Anyone, put your hand up. Don't be ashamed. It's an okay job. So someone's coming to you for a WordPress website. You'd be like, well, I know what their problem is. They want a website, but that's not their problem, yeah? And also they have preconceived beliefs before they ever hit you. They've been burned by a shitty WordPress developer. They bought a site for 50 quid off Sumbud, on Fiverr, and now they need you to fix it, yeah? They were on Whip. And they now need to move over to WordPress. But also they're not even buying the website. They're buying what the website can do for their business. They're buying the fact that that website's going to make them money so they can spend time with their kids. They're buying that, yeah? And also the emotions they have. They're stressed. They're scared you're going to spend too much money. They're scared you're going to start talking about PHP and, oh, I can't think of any other acronyms. HTML and things like that. And they're going to be like, I'm not going to understand, I'm going to get bamboozled, and I'm going to end up paying for something and not being happy with it. So they're fears. And their desire is that you're going to take all that away and make their life easy. So if we think about those things when we start selling on our page, we're no longer saying we are brilliant WordPress developers. We make WordPress websites and they are dead good. We're saying, hey, we understand that you maybe have had a bad experience before, but you can trust us because we built hundreds and hundreds of websites. We know that there's gold in the jar and can be overwhelming. So we speak in plain English. Do you see how suddenly you're reassuring that person that you are the right person for the job? Because you've understood their emotions. It's all about emotions, people. So how can you find out what your customers are thinking or feeling? Well, the first easy, really easy way is to ask them. So you can use surveys, survey monkey, things like that. You can look on your Facebook page. One little tip is to go into any group on Facebook and type WordPress or website into the search box and look at the conversations people are having and saying, oh, God, I really need someone good because I had this website and I was wrong. Can anyone recommend someone? Look at the problems that people are having. Collate those problems because they're going to be super helpful to you. Look at blog comments, look at forum posts. These are places where you're going to dig deep and understand your customer. And you can end up with something like this. Not that I would ever spend the time creating something like this because who the hell has got the time to do this. It's like a customer avatar, a Kevin. And it doesn't just talk about his age. It talks about his motivations, his goals, his frustrations. Wonder what he's frustrated about. I didn't read it. I should have put something funny in there for somebody to find it next time I was. But what we've done is we've created a whole well-rounded person, haven't we? If you really want to cut to the chase, an easy way to do it is just think about someone who fits your persona. So I often write a lot of my copy towards Amanda Van Aldrin. So I imagine that she's my ideal customer. She's my ideal human. But she is my ideal customer. The problems that she has are problems that I can solve. I have products and services that you will want. She's the same sort of sense of humour, sort of customer I like working with who laughs at my jokes. It's very important for me. And that enables me to imagine what I'm talking. I can write as if I'm talking to her. Because we're having a conversation with people. And the really important thing is that the copy on your website is true and honest and sounds like you. So I don't read the copy on your website and then I get on the phone with you and you're like, oh hello. You know, you have to have this. It has to be you. It has to have your voice so that it connects seamlessly from the page to the phone call. So the next tip I have is understanding awareness. So this is super important. Feel free to take a snap of this, although you are all going to get these slides later. So people come to our websites at different stages. Most aware, they already know us. Maybe they've already been asked before. Product aware, they've heard about our products or what we sell, and maybe they're in comparison mode. They're comparing your product with somebody else's. Solution aware, these people know they have a problem and they know what the solution is to fix it, but they haven't yet decided that your product is the right one for them. And then problem aware, people who have a problem they don't actually realise there's a solution for it. So in my world, product most aware would be somebody who maybe has done my 10 day course and they're ready to buy my big course. If they already know me, they trust me, it's going to be a relatively easier stuff. Product aware, maybe they've heard about my course and they're comparing it to someone else's to see if it's better. Solution aware, somebody who knows that they need to do better with their Google, they need to do the Google, they need to get better at it, but they didn't realise there was a course or a resource or that I was the thing for them. And then problem aware is people who are just like, why is my website making me any money? And they don't realise that search engine optimisation could be the option. And then we have people who are unaware, people who don't have a problem, but they can bugger off. So how do we convert these different people? So most aware, it's pretty simple. Tell them the product, you're giving them the price. It's not hard sell. Product aware, they're trying to find differentiated. So that's why you maybe push, give them a special offer, maybe give them 10% off, give them a special thing that pushes them over the line and makes them choose you rather than someone else. Solution aware is all about proof. What have you done before? What testimonials do you have? What logos do you have? Problem aware, it's explaining, it's exacerbating that problem. So yeah, you're not ranking Google. It's only going to get worse. You're going to make the money. You're going to lose your house. Your wife's going to leave you. My course is going to change all of that. That kind of stuff. Maybe don't take it that far, but you see how I go. So those are the different steps that we need to think about. And obviously this thing is, you don't know the awareness level when people hit your page, your sales page. I don't have four different sales pages for these different people. I have one. So I need to make sure that in that long sales page I've touched each of these audiences. I've connected with each person who has these concerns. The next thing I think that's really important to do, and it's kind of a bit away from actual sales copy, but it's to craft your USP. So your USP is your unique selling proposition. It's who you are, what you do, who you do it for, and what is better than anybody else. It's your point of difference. And it's really good to write this down as a little definitive statement. It's really good when you're at networking as well because you can go, hey, when it was at Bill Harper, I edit copy and make it sound just as like you, but even better. Having a line like that makes it easier at networking classes. So a USP should be specific. So generic claims like equality, or we go above and beyond for our clients. It's like, nah, doesn't really mean anything, does it? It should make a promise. So what are you going to do that's going to make these people's lives better? How are you going to improve their lives? What problem are you solving? It should actually be unique. So you know, saying that you build affordable wordpress websites, well, every bugger does. That's not unique. You need to have something better than that. It needs to be valuable. So it needs to be something that customers are going to value. Something that you offer that actually value to it. And it needs to be believable. So don't make grand claims that you can't back up. We're going to come back to this. So here's a little template that I use. I've got a few different ones, but this one's quite useful. So we provide product or service to target audience. So they can product or service without pain point or friction point. So if you want to take a grab of this, and this is how that could work for me, for example. So we provide SEO courses, product or service, for small businesses so that they can do their own SEO without spending a fortune on expensive consultants. So I could work that harder. It's not too unique. I could have maybe added a few more adjectives, but it's a basic outline. It clearly explains what I do, who I do it for, and why I do it better for anyone else, and what promise I'm making. So that's a little thing that we should all have. We should all have our USP written down. Now the next thing that we can do to make our life really easy when we're writing sales copies is use a formula. All copyright is cheap. We all got formulas and patterns and some places that we use again and again and again because they work. There's basic rules of copywriting that we all follow, and you can follow them too. One of my favourite copywriting formulas is PAS. Problem agitate solution. You present the user with their own problem. You're sick of spending time cleaning the toilet. I don't know why I came up with that one, but you're sick of spending time cleaning the toilet. Then you agitate it, but if you don't clean your toilet, you're going to get horrible germs on your bottom, you're going to get ill, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and then solution, but we have this new superlue brush that's going to clean your toilet in half the time. Really awful example, but I hope you get it. So problem, present the problem button, make them feel really bad about the problem, and then come in like, ta-da! I am the solution to your problem. So this is something that I do on my sales page for my course. It's really just problem, problem, problem solution. I kind of miss the agitate bit out, but I present the problems back to the customer. So you want to rank higher in the search results. You're confused by the text speak. You've been burned by a DPO company because those are certain reasons people sign up to my course. After years of not talking to people about why they sign up, those are the big three. You need my course because it's the best bloody one ever. So that helps people because they identify. They might not identify with all three, but they identify with one of the three, and it sucks them in. Because if you ask a question in copywriting, it demands an answer. We all answer a question in our heads, even if we don't say it out loud. We're all answering the question and therefore we're engaged with the copy more than just passively reading. So questions can be powerful. Now another great tip is when we're writing sales copy is to tell stories. There's a big thing about stories in copywriting, but it's simple stuff. I see themselves. If I'm about to spend two grounds on a course, I want to see someone who's like me, who had the same problem as me, who did the course and had success. So you can tell stories in a different way. A great way of getting stories onto your page is testimonials. But not just those really long ones that no one reads and not in a rotating thing. Hate those things. If no one ever clicks on them, don't do it, don't do it. Anyway, but those little stories are really helpful. You can tell stories as well yourself. So this is one of the classic David Ogilvy ads. David Ogilvy is like a god in the copywriting world. And he started this idea of not just going, this is a Rolls-Royce. It's got something horsepower and I don't know anything about cars. It's got wheels and shit. Instead, he's like, imagine stepping into a Rolls-Royce. Imagine what it feels like as you put your key in the lock and click and go along. The only sound you can hear is the birds, because the engine is so quiet. It has a quiet engine. He says you can hear the birds tweeting in the tree. Do you know what I mean? So he's telling a story. He's making us, we're living this experience. We want to be in that car. So that's how he did it. And I do this on my site. I tell my story because that helps me to be more credible, more authoritative. And I'm like, yeah, I was where you were. I started a business 10 years ago. I was the word copywriter. There were 30,000 copywriters or something that came up. People at the top of the rankings like Glenn Murray and some weird dude called Chris. He, that's an in-joke for people. They were unassailable. You know, they'd been around for years. Who the hell was I? So I started there. I learned SEO. I'd done some in my previous job. I did the things. I practiced. I made mistakes. I failed. I got up again and now I ranked over 400 keywords. You can't pretty much put copywriter into Google without something about me popping up. And I did that myself. I didn't spend money on expensive consultants. I didn't do anything dodgy, no black hat SEO. So I tell my story. My story helps persuade people to buy. So the next tip is to write strong headlines. Yeah? So writing strong headlines is super important because we all know that on the internet none of us actually read the copy anyway. It's great for us copywriters. I was writing it and no one reads it. Jacob Nelson or whatever they call did a study that said people forage around the page. They go around, they find little snippets of information. We all know we do that too. Scroll down until we see a little headline that makes us interested and we read that bit. People don't read from top to bottom. So your headlines are kind of the signposts about what your copy is about. Ogilby again, I like to wheel him out every other slide. So on average five times as many people read the headline. Guys, all going on in this room, isn't it? On average five times as many people read it, you can read it yourself. It's there on the screen. So basically what he's saying is that eight out of ten people will read the headline. Two out of ten people will read the copy. So often when I'm writing my copy I try to look at all the headlines I've written, take away all the body copy and just look at the headlines and see if there's a flow and see if you can get the gist of what the whole page is about just from the headline. So that's why I hate it on home pages where people have headlines like, you know, testimonial. You know, testimonial. It should be like love from our customers or amazing customers who've worked with us. You know, make every headline work. Don't be so literal and boring. Try and inject some personality into your headlines. And a good way to think about it is to think about what the goal of the headline is. Again, to go back to that audience and then think about the location of where it's going to be on your page. Where is it on the page? Is it that opening line? Are they deep into the content? Or is it the finishing line? It's going to affect the way that the headline's written. So here are a couple of mon from my page. So the first headline on my page after that thing is SEO is a giant pain in the bum, right? Now that doesn't mean particularly if you're intelligent but what it does straight away is it establishes my tone of voice. If you're looking at someone else's SEO page about their course I guarantee the first word on the page is not bum. So that very quickly tells you what, of course, I am what kind of personality I have, whether you're going to like working with me. Because marketing is as much about repelling people as it is about attracting people. I want people who are going to enjoy working with me. There's over 100 hours of videos of me rabbiting on in my course. If you don't like me at the beginning, you're going to hate me by the end. So I don't want that because I don't want people leaving my course and not telling other people it was awful. So straight away I'm establishing who I am, my tone. But then I go on and I just have really clear statements like you're going to save money on your SEO because you are. You're going to get all the support you need. So again I'm thinking about the different audiences, some people are worried about money, some people are worried that they're not going to be able to get through the content on their own and they're going to need to be able to ask me questions. So I'm reassuring different people with different problems all the way through the page. And another little thing to think about with headlines is often we write really positive headlines like save money on your SEO. We write the positive, we write the advantage. But what can be really helpful is to do negative headlines. Gain isn't as powerful as loss. People hate losing things that they already have. Losing something they already have. We're all loss of us. It's worse to lose something than it is to get something else. So try to spin the headline around and try some negative ones as well. Tip number eight is to be specific. Specific. Specific. So again lots of us when we're writing coffee we're like we've built websites. We've done this. We've worked with these new people. No, no, no, no. Be specific because specificity, I can't say it. So just bear with me. It's more believable. It's more credible. So I used to have, we have lots of worksheets on this course. But I changed it to we have 14 worksheets. Because what does lots mean? It doesn't mean anything. It could be something different to you. You know what I mean? And then on my page I've now got like a little thing that says 30 plus. I probably could be a bit more specific. I think it's because I couldn't be bothered to count them. But we have 30 worksheets. We have 100 videos. Because again, I could say it's a comprehensive course with everything you need. But if I say there's 100 videos, that says wow, that's a lot of stuff. I'm getting some money out of that. So specificity is super powerful in converting people and persuading people. Don't summarise your benefits to be specific. The next thing is to substantiate. We've got to back this shit up. We've got to make it believable. We can't say anything that we can't back up. So we want to avoid raising red flags. We want to avoid going to people going, hang on, that sounds a bit too good to be true. Don't mention things that you can't back up. Or haven't got much copy space if you've only got a few lines. Don't mention stuff that you can't fully explain. Don't drop something obscuring without being able to back it up. Keep your claims real and believable and avoid big claims. Often as SEO copywriters, we could easily say our copy is going to get you to the top of the ranking. But it might not. If you can't back that up and you've made that claim, you're going to feel icky. That's when sales copy starts to feel icky. That's the American way. They're like, it's the most amazing vacuum in the world. So don't make big claims and then you won't feel bad. Focus on saying what people want rather than what you want to say. If you want to, you can cushion the claim. So this is a neat little trick. So you cushion the claim by making it a question. Could this be the SEO course that's going to transform your business? Well, yes it could. But you don't say that yes it could. You just ask the question. You just leave that floating in the air. Could I be the best word pressed about that? So cushioning the claim is a great way of saying something that you can't really say by turning it into a question. Another thing to think about is when we're making claims or offering, we need to really offer value. So a lot of people on e-commerce stores say free delivery. But free doesn't mean anything. It's got no value, has it? So if you actually make it have some value, if you put costs behind things, people then feel that they get their money. So free delivery or we pay for your delivery Australia-wide. We are giving you money. That sounds much more beneficial to me. It's a classic sales tactic to kind of do the this is everything you get in my course and this is what it would cost if you bought it all separately. This would cost this. The whole thing would cost you $5,500 but it's not that much. It's only this much. It's a bit cheesy but I'm listing out the value. I'm showing you the things that you're going to get. That can be really compelling and it's very specific. Obviously I've just made up the numbers but hey, it works. The next thing we need to do is to build trust. People are in. They've read the headlines, they're halfway down the sales page and this is why people are like, I hate long sales pages, I never read them. Believe me they work. Every time I add a paragraph on to my long sales page my call sells out like an hour quicker. It's just ridiculous, it's some weird thing because again no one's reading the whole thing. They're scrolling down and looking at the bits they want to look at and lots of people have already looked at it so many times that they've jumped to the bottom and pressed the buy button. But in our long sales page we need to allow enough room to really show some trust factors and one of the biggest things that builds trust is testimonials. Other people talking about your product saying things that you can't say like someone else can say this is the best course that I've ever done, it changed my business. I can't say that because I sound like a wanker. So if someone else says it they put the word onto my page for me. But look at my testimonials. They are not big long paragraphs. No one reads that. Take one line from the testimonial and make sure that each testimony backs up a different thing that you're trying to do. One of those talks about ROI. One of them talks about trust. One of them talks about support. One of them talks about money. One of the points that I need to back up and they all have a face because there's no point in having a testimonial unless it has someone's face. Because again, some people will literally go down I struggle to get blokes on my course for some reason, I don't know why. Blokes like learning from blokes maybe. About 25% of people on my course are men. I wish it was more, I like men. So I found that putting more men's faces on the page was more reassuring. If it's all women, they're like it's not really for men. So men's faces having the name of their business having a link through to their business website so you can see it's a real legitimate customer but keeping those testimonials short. The next thing is to have logos. Everyone you've ever worked with be a Nans cat website. Make a logo for it, put it on there. It doesn't matter. People like seeing big brands, of course they do. I like big brands and I cannot lie but they're just like seeing lots of logos because everyone of those is another satisfied customer. So just logo, logo, logo. OK, we've got bonus tips. We've got two bonus tips. By the way, some of you did say you would heckle and none of you have and I'm a bit disappointed so I'm waiting to be heckled. OK, so the next bonus tip is to provide results. So you can do that in different ways. You can obviously have a portfolio of websites and whatever. Again, I'm talking to the Word Festival so I know that lots of people are doing different things. There are examples of what you've done and that's not really results, is it? Results is like when you say this person came to me with this problem. This is how I solved it and this is what changed in their business for them. They've got 20 more leads a week. Their website is sped up by 15 seconds or whatever it may be. What you've done for them, real tangible results. Someone can go I want that. I want that result for me. So on my site I have a list of the first page when you type into Google and everybody on the first page pretty much by one is somebody who's done my course. That's pretty compelling. People are now outranking me for my own terms. My own students are becoming better than me which is very annoying. Brilliant. That's real results. You can't deny that. It's a screen grab from Google. I could have photoshopped it but I didn't. I invite people to go on Google now and have a look and see and I'll see the same thing. The next tip and the final tip is to write strong calls to action. Call to action CTA buttons basically. The buttons on your site that say do this, go there, do the thing. Most people when they're writing calls to action they make them so boring. If I see another button that says subscribe I don't want to subscribe. Subscribing sounds really miserable and boring. I don't want to do that. We've got to make it more compelling. Instead of saying things like complete our servo by now submit you can say get. Get is really powerful. Instead of download our worksheet get our amazing tip sheet. It just sounds stronger. When people are signing up to my course I could have joined now but instead get started it's a lot more compelling. I'm doing this thing. Get is a powerful thing. Another neat trick with call to action is to always finish the sentence I want to. I want to join the waitlist. I want to save my spot. We don't actually have the word I want to on the button. We have saved my spot. Join the waitlist. Get started. Win more leads. If any of you on your website have the words click here I will come and find you. We do not need to be telling people how to use the internet. Click here. Click on the navigation and click on the drop. If your site has such bad usability and I know that someone is talking about usability today at some point I think you are UX. If your website has such bad usability that people have to be told what to do on it you need to redesign your website. No amount of copy is going to save you. Unfortunately. Another powerful way is to turn it on to the user. Yes. Do you want to something something? Yes. Let me in. We have all seen those horrendous pop-ups that come up and say do you want a checklist? No I am stupid and I don't want it. Yes I will sign it up. Click the no button. My final tip and I think I am ahead of schedule. How long have I got? We can just chat amongst ourselves afterwards. My final tip is the A-B test. You have got to experiment people. You have got to try these things out. You can't just write one page and just hope that it's going to work. Ideally you can use things like lead pages and there are other tools and tricks I won't go into them today. We will help you serve two versions of the page. One thing you can do is run a little Google AdWords campaign driving to two different landing pages. See the same ad copy two different landing pages see which one performs better. Or get some heat mapping software and really look at how people are using the page. What headlines are people really focused on? What headlines are people skin past? Which bits of copy do people really look at? I did that and as I said I did that on my page and I really noticed the eyeballs on those testimonials hovering on the faces reading the copy. It was really strong. The logos as well. Anything where I said the word money. Saving money. That's why you know as well you mix up images versus copy versus images. Lots of white space. It gives the eye space to move around the page and be drawn to what it wants to be drawn to. Some people are very image driven. Some people like to read copy. Click buttons but some people like contextual links in the copy. You know you've got a cater to all these different people. So AB testing is essential. So in summary I think conversion copywriting, persuasive copywriting is really about being human. It's quite almost trite to say and I say it a lot but you know especially with SEO we always should write for humans first and Google second. But when we're writing our copy for our website we really need to remember that it's not about us it's about our customers. We're trying to connect we're trying to have a conversation. You should be reading your copy out and seeing if it's actually something you would say because I have people come on my they try and do the USP or whatever and they're like I can't do it. I can't do it and I'm like okay just stop. Tell me what you do in your business and they tell me and I type it because I'm quite fast typing. 95 words a minute. Type it up and I email it back to them and say there's your USP you actually just read it out. You just said it but when you come down to writing it you're like is that not that. So just talk to yourself. Read your copy out. Talk about your business. Don't exaggerate don't make big claims and don't feel icky about selling. It's what we're here to do it's what it's all about. So conversion copywriting is just about explaining your product to your audience in a way that's relatable in a way that makes them feel emotional and in a way that makes them realise that you are going to solve their problem and make them feel very happy. So if you need more help from me or you want to learn more about what I do I have a big group on Facebook. You can all join it get your phones out. Just typing I love SEO and in there I share regular tips and advice about SEO copywriting digital marketing share pictures of my dog and all stuff. It's a fun place to be. And that's it. That's me down. Thank you very much.