 No, but seriously, I would like to now call the August 14th Parks and Recreation Advisory Board meeting order. Can you start with the roll call? Yes. And Angel, here. Scott Cullman. Here. Mr. Thomas Davis is not here. Ms. Pedro Luis is not here. Sam Libby. Here. Nicholas Novello. Here. Mr. Van Wilson not here. Mr. Tim Walters. Here. Awesome. Okay, let's move on to approval of the agenda. Does anyone have any questions or request of changes to the agenda? And if not, can I get a motion to approve the agenda? I'll approve the agenda. Second? I'll second. All right. All in favor? All four of us. All right. Awesome. Okay, moving on from there, then let's go to approval of previous months, minutes. So, does anyone have any questions or request of changes to the meeting minutes from last month? No? Okay. If that's the case, then can I get a motion to approve the last month's previous minutes? Okay. Second. All in favor? Okay. Do we have public event to be heard? We do. We have a service. Okay. If that's the case, we can move on to old business that we've all been waiting for. So, it's said about this. So, let's move into the first item on old business here. The library, recreation and culture ballot questions update. Who's covering? Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. Ben. meeting. It was decided to put both of those together and was approved to move forward with that. And the second reading on August 22nd. So that is the YMCA proposal and the Recreation Proposal, Recreation Center proposal together. Those numbers are certainly available. The effect of those and that's kind of the gist of where we're at with that part of it. Linked to that, we did a presentation of the feasibility study on the 8th of July to show the need, specifically all out the need for the Recreation Facility and that I believe that I'm well at that Council, but I will support the Council for that for the idea that we're not bringing questions concerning the future. And we had some drawings out of it and some drawings updated, not right now. Pretty, previously this, we had one other on the feasibility study and this is the most updated rendering we've got. I think there's three different pictures there. And it came out pretty good. It's something that shows a very large scale of this at 90,000 square feet. Modern building, a lot of trying to take advantage of the views. That was something that's been a common theme at that site. Indoor to outdoor is kind of a theme. This picture I think it's a really cool picture. It doesn't give all we really want to see, which is also there's folks working out outside of the idea of this. Again, it's a rendering of possible options, but taking advantage of those views at that site. And yes, the glass that we recognize to it. Yeah, these are renderings. There'll be a lot of public approval. Yeah, things go ahead. And the glass is something that we've talked quite a bit about because it seems like we always want to have all this glass in our facilities. And then the first thing we have to do is find ways to put blinds up on everything. So again, very conceptual, but really wanted to show them out range and the ability to have the activities outside as well as inside. But again, that those will be conversations if the ballot, excuse me, would pass that we'd have more public input and feedback on that. That really covers both of those items. Any discussion you want to talk about? I just want to make sure everybody has the handout from our legal staff about what we can and cannot do. It was very official. Yeah, I like the logic from that. And then this one from Eugene last week. So again, we are we are in the midst of being at that point where we as staff and you as the board will not be able to advocate one way or another pro or con. You know, we are finalizing some things, but that date may have actually happened on August 8, right, where we are not able to advocate anymore. But certainly you as a group and staff off duty can advocate, but you cannot do that while you're serving as before. We're going to ask factual questions. You can ask factual and we can give you facts back as we know that. Good preamble there. Okay, so as of what day? We believe that it was last Tuesday. Damn, I broke all the rules. You didn't do that as a board member. I'm going to pay him a city employee. Fairly. Oh, okay. All right. As long as you're not on the clock. Or using city resources. Okay, that's we have a session topics. Yeah, I just have a question. The first question I'm going to have on the ballot measure side. Is there been any feedback of any concern that it's like three pages long? And, you know, there was some bundling and it's too complicated or Oh, I think nothing. No, totally fine. We have not heard that, but I am sure, especially with the rec one that that has the biggest component of that, because not only are we asking people to vote yes or no on building facilities, but we're also asking them yes or no about providing the sale or giving away part property. So that's that I do think that we really need to educate people. And again, I'm not trying to say for yes or no, but to really be able to read the ballot, ask questions if it's not clear, because there's going to be a lot there with especially with, you know, the arts and entertainment is also on there and the branch library and the preferred level of funding is three separate questions. It is a lot. Do you or we have any influence on the ballot language? I would say probably not. And that's because there are all these legal requirements that we have to follow. The city has gotten with legal council to draft that because there's also taper requirements that we have to announce it so that they're not going to nobody's going to have the opportunity to say I don't like the wording or or I think you should do that. It's going to be on the August 22nd council agenda. Yeah. So if you have your if you have thoughts and you want to share them, that's probably as close as you're going to come is whether it's with me or another council. Just her equity. I just I believe that I mean, I think a lot can do what we want a lot more than we say we can because we can. And then for equity, I think about language needs to be written in a way that an eighth grader can understand. So it needs to be one of our eighth graders, because that's the that's who that's that's our constituent base can read. So I just I just like to see it written. So I'll take I'll take the question of lexile. That's the lexile. Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, if I can't understand the ballot question, there's problem. Well, these are going to be complicated without a doubt. Yeah, just right. Legal counsel is going to grab them. But we are going to get a look and we'll have I'm certain that whatever comment occurs on the 22nd will kind of be up against whoever the bond council is advising. But noted, readability or a level of readability is going to be important. Yeah, I will share that as well. Because I really just want this to be what Longmont wants, you know, like what I want is not, I mean, I'm just a board, you know, I'm just on the board, but I'm supposed to represent what Longmont wants, but we can't tell what Longmont wants if they can't read it. I was sad enough not only the ballot language itself, but there are other places where it's described as a table notification that goes out separately in the table book. And anything that anything factual from the city that describes it differently is an opportunity to do that in different words than the bell. The bell language has certain requirements that the first sentence and table limited sentence I think that has to be phrased. So just different places you can also message a different way. The city will do an information document that will be mailed out to every household. Again, giving the facts. Yep. And we'll also have statements about people that are voting in favor of the measure are doing so for this reason. And people that are voting against it are doing so for these But that will and then I think that information will be put into poster size and placed at city facilities. But that's kind of the extreme. Yeah. Yes. I'm not sure if your council will find it to be factual putting something on there about this not being the end of the process would be helpful. Had we mentioned earlier the idea that the public would likely or will have further input if approved to get into details and that feedback it's not going to be an only one version of it. That's important. Any other questions? So is that so and that's it for city communications, right? You know, AJ asked about like city rec. You know, I don't think we we will be able to provide the factual information. But I think what she was asking me, I can't do now. The question I have is about Centennial. If there's definitely this state in the not developing somewhere else that quoted cost of any rec rec renovating that versus this, that's a good comparison of things to call out facts that are maybe as well as the fact that Centennial is growing and probably not everybody does that. I know Harold mentioned this at the last city council meeting that there was an MOU being developed with the Y. Is that community made public? Or when it's ready, we're meeting again with them So tomorrow or Wednesday to put more meat on that problem? Is there a working name for what you want to call this besides the YMCA project, which then it gives the city's part? But that is a problem. But I think that that's how it was passed on the first reading. I don't know that we can change that now. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Outside of the of the ballot, I guess we could call it something. What do you have suggestions? I've just been calling it the city Y facility person taking off the MCA meeting with the city. That's one of people's concerns is either city giving money to a private organization. Or you're having this facility, but I have to go through a third party. I can just have a rec center in my neighborhood that's a city rec center. So we're going to do to mitigate those that we bring. So I think it would be much more comfortable to see that there because people like the idea that their passes give all the discounts that's worked out really well so far. And I think you heard Harold say last week that Y was okay with calling it something once if it happens, not just calling it the Y, but it could have the city's name. His language in the video or in that thing wasn't super clear. I mean anybody was intending, but I wanted to take a quote and actually put it into some of our marketing pieces. It was not quite great. So I'm hoping to put it in my U or something that's not legal. That the formal agreement would happen if it passes, right? Yeah. So I mean, so is the Y then somehow specifically on the hook or what they're delivering for $12 million to the city? They will be yes. Okay. And you know, the Y has a little different timeline than what the new rec center would have because we would be, we would have the resources needed to move forward. The Y has to get approval by voters before it can be eligible to go for the tax credits. So there is a lag time between when they would get the $12 million from the city and when they could start moving forward with their project. Right. So it's more like 2026 probably. Yeah. Do you have any other questions? Do you want the master plan or? Yeah, just in the rec center, just if there was, you know, you have these two buildings and that there's other ones that you considered more joining us from them considering to me. Right now, this is what we're going to get. I will tell you that Chris Pistellic who's been working with the city has announced that Ben and I late last week that he is leaving Perkins Will because the last day will be August 30th. So the whole master plan, we're going to have to regroup with the new staff person once they're assigned to them. So that leaves them there, which does not include a guiding document towards it. It was a shock pass. Yeah. He's worked for them. I think it's whole career. It doesn't sound like he has a plan going to the next round. So I guess what's so wide, sorry. No, please. Is the, so I came up and the council was great about answer. I think it was on the 18th doing scholarships for youth to reduce the cost because the difference in the cost, even though it seems nominal by five or seven dollars per entry or whatever is a concern. And they have, the wine she has, they rely on and I think it's not that wide, I understand. So it's not just one wine that's gone where it's been explained to me. So that'll be something that's a business they've been in. I think they have, I don't think the scholarship is going to be an issue and I think it could carry over to Longmont recreation pass holders as well. The whole $12 million is kind of an interesting concept because $12 million helps build the facility. It doesn't go towards any of the money that it takes to operate the facility. So they are committing to us that they can operate the facility with the proposal that we've agreed to with the recreation pass holders, but it will have to be evaluated annually with the commitment as long as we want to be partners, there will always be that break for city taxpayers to build that our recreation pass holders in the world. Would there be any interest by this city to, you know, backfill it so that it will look more equitable between people who go to the Y and people who go to other city recreation facilities? We haven't had that conversation that the money is not in the ballot question to backfill it, but it could be something that could be addressed in the future. A lot of partnerships aren't done that way. Johnstown, why they they built that facility and they actually give the Y some funding to help operate it. So there is history of that sort of thing. But that is not in the proposal right now. Yeah, it's one of those things that people are like, well, this is why I'm paying for centennial pool level pigs that would seem not at the same place. And I was like, well, it's not the same thing, it's not 50 years old. So they put the new facility or you can go to the new facility in southwest Longmont and pay with your payment. Plus there's always the option that if, let's say that the ice rink is really the thing that people want to go. They may have that choice where they would rather be a Y member because that's their area of interest. And then they pay just the normal Y rate. They wouldn't have access to the recreation facilities. So that's kind of the compromise we've tried to work out. It isn't as clean as if it was just a city facility. But I think it's a fair arrangement that we've tried to come up with that gives the Y the money they need to operate, but also gives a break to the taxpayer. I think we need to get clear, the council does, on what that's going to look like. Those who are going to have to keep on behalf of this proposal are going to be asked, you'll be asked over and over again. It's what killed that. It's what really hurt the 2019 proposal, is that we didn't have a plan. We never talked about it. It should have, to make certain that we were addressing equity concerns to support the outreach programs, to support the participation or involvement of kids and families who might not otherwise have been able to be involved. So I don't think we can leave that to trust us. Yeah, I agree. There is the direct Y scholarship that they've indicated that their posted rates most memberships do not pay that rate because they're supported by scholarship dollars. But point well taken and we'll work out. That's not on you as much as it is going to be on council members. We're clear in whether it's direction and say bring us back a plan. So we have an answer to a question. This is how it's going to work. Yeah, I think it starts with the grid. And then there are some additional opportunities beyond that that we discussed concerning holidays, which are really important to folks in ICE. That alone is a pretty big issue and they've been very accommodated with talking about having this kind of days around the holidays, making sure they're available, open to the public during that time. So it's something I think we can have more information as we get back to that title. Yeah, the question is coming from the subject. I have one just looking at this handy dandy guy here, the empire rules. I am for it says boards may pass a resolution and an official expression of opinion. Yes. So that is that is the one thing you as a board can do. And we can if you're interested for the September meeting, we can draft a resolution that you all could consider to support. I think that's what I'm advocating for. Yeah. So we don't need to do that yet because we can have this reading until one second, but after that September meeting, put it on the agenda. Yeah, if you can draft something strong for us, these are going to try to figure out the words. Yeah, I can workshop that too. Okay, cool. Any other questions? topics? There's one more. Well, there's like the library, the library question, I think, you know, kind of, yeah, I think that's not really, yeah, it's just like them going doing the office of what we did. The library board. The library board. Yeah, voting just for the library. I think it's really tough. I think almost going into the page and I have discussed over time, say it was going to be in a library and then the library board can't be as a non-starter. Do they explain more? I was not asking to hear that. So I mean, it sounded like from the person who came up with the spoke, they were in tune with their 60% even though that was the one that they wanted to do it on their own. I can make a reason, but that would not be for sure. I don't know if we're changing anything at this point, right? I don't understand. We've done it to that matter. No, no, we've actually just done it. That's the outcome. Right. So we're, yeah, we're past. Yes, this is the following meeting. Okay, one last call on this. Anything else on this time? Yes. Why is it called the vampire room? Good question. I think this is really cool. I like this. I like being in the vampire and I like being in the wild west, but oh no. I saw the piece north of the mirror cannot reflect any opinion. I think the vampire effecting the mirror thing was, I like it. I just wanted to know why it's a vampire. Okay, this makes me feel a lot better than nobody else knew. I thought I was the only one that didn't know why. It's a good question. With that, we'll move on to new business and we're going to do the open space updates this month. Yes. Yes, sorry. No, that's okay. So if you recall last month, we had the open space updates on the agenda's went out and I realized Daniel was on vacation in that month and I really wanted you to have heard the opportunity to present this. So I'm just going to talk frequently to kind of remind this group when we talk about open space in the past, Dan Wolter was here talking about that. Dan retired. We decided it was made a lot of sense to split that position. He did such a breadth of work from his land management, ecosystem management, open space management to really create a group that focused on the open space side and Daniel has a history with Leverton County and Holbrook County and the city here working on open space acquisitions, conservation easements. So really on that, that side of things, the acquisition of the conservation easement monitoring, the agricultural eases and all that kind of detailed piece of work we're going to build into it. So Daniel's here tonight at some other point you might have Jim Crickman because of the piece of Dan's work which is really citywide, wildlife management, weed management and that really isn't another work group now that from the airport to the landfill Jim Crick is doing that piece of this. So Daniel's been talking about the open space program and we're wrapped up here and I just want to say I think you guys have been discussing the valid issues part of the future. We're going to have another valid issue concerning extending the open space and sales and use tax. So you know that's the context and I think you guys are called the Parks and Rec advisory board but I think not in your title is your overview over open space. So this is all stuff you've probably seen before or a little familiar with but we're at a point where our open space management plan or master plan is five years old and this is kind of the point where we recommend updating it. So this is just going to be a quick presentation to talk about where we are with open space in the past. So first the land acknowledgment so we need to acknowledge that we that Longmont sits on the traditional territory of the Cheyenne, Arapaho, and Butte and other Indigenous peoples. We honor the history and the living and spiritual connection that the first peoples have with this land. It is our commitment to face the injustices that happened when the land was taken and to educate our communities, ourselves, and our children to ensure that these injustices do not happen again. Why is open space important? Because Longmont's open space is preserved natural lands and hands quality of life for all and promote conservation and stewardship. And so a little bit about the history of the open space program. This is the ordinance that created our open space program that was developed in 2002 and I'll get a little bit more into these details. So the open space sales and use tax was first passed in 2000. It was approved by the voters in that year and it increased the tax rate by 0.2 percent of two cents on every purchase. And in 2001, before the program was even the open space program, we started with acquisitions and planning for multimodal transportation connectivity. So then in 2002, the program was formed. The open space trails and master plan was written, the original version of it. And we purchased our very first open space property which is Boulder Creek Estates over here. And I will, and it's a 200 and acre, 218 acre property. It encompasses the consulance of St. Gray and Boulder Creek. And we are now 20 plus years later and it is going to be providing Greenway connectivity for the phase 13 of the St. Gray Greenway trail that is connecting Sandstone Ranch to St. Gray State Park that we are currently 60 percent designed on right now. So we didn't know at the time that that would be a benefit of this first open space that we protected, but it is. And then in 2007, we extended the, we approved the tax extension on sales and use tax. So currently, even though our program is still young, our open spaces are known regionally as prime open space, great places to visit, great places to recreate. And so presently, we have some overlapping plans. So we have the original open space master plan here. It was 2002, but we did the update in 2018. And now we're due for the current update. We also have our vision law month plan that was done in 2016. And the two plans keep each other in mind. The parks, rock and trails master plan, as well as the wildlife management plan and the regional corridors and connections that we're working on currently. These are all the current planning projects. And then in terms of acquisition, the open space program has oversight over land, water and mineral acquisitions. And the purchase fee, simple land as well as conservation easements. Could you explain the fee? It's, it's an open outright. Also, as part of the open space management plan, we manage leases for these various uses, agriculture, recreation, water. So some of our farmers lease water from the city oil and gas and also gravel mining. And primary greenways are under the purview of the open space program. So we have 11 primary greenways going through the city, which comprises about 36 miles and we're continuing to build upon that. So this is just now I'm going to go through a series of maps just to give you a nice visual. In the yellow, we can see the Longmont planning area. So when you think of envision Longmont and the comprehensive plan, it's kind of within this yellow within the Longmont planning area. And so here we also have our parks. And then when you think of open spaces, city open spaces, they're largely, with the exception of the greenway acres, outside the Longmont planning area. You can see a lot of them over here to the east. So this includes the fee, simple properties, the conservation easements and additional lands owned by other funds. So a lot of water resource properties are here around Union Reservoir and some of them are conservation easements with the purpose of future reservoir expansion. And then if you combine all of our open space acres with what Boulder County has protected, you can you can see what what we're looking at as our as our buffer around the Longmont planning area. So then thinking about the future, you know, even though the the tax doesn't need to be on the ballot and approved until 2030 or beyond, we're still thinking about the future challenges for the program. Currently, we're kind of moving out of mostly doing acquisitions and more into a maintenance phase, but that's expensive and getting more expensive. So we do want to have continue to have the ongoing funding of the open space sales use tax. We also want to acknowledge that the open space fund does get other one time funding from oil and gas revenue and partner relationships from joint ownership. So so some jointly owned properties. But those those are definitely one time and intermittent temporary sources of funding. So the sales and use tax is really the primary mode. And what we're seeing on our open spaces is that Longmont is growing and people of our open spaces, we're using them. And we're also seeing growth and housing within our Longmont planning area. So opportunities for the future. Our open space program is going to be 30 years old, two years before the open space tax sunsets. So maybe a time to celebrate, maybe something think about planning around that. And then just continued opportunities to educate and engage through our volunteer and park ranger programs. And educate around the restoration that we're doing on our open spaces. Continue to work with our farmers to support regenerative agricultural practices. So working with our partner, the NRCS, seeing how we can support, you know, center peer pivot irrigation, which helps their operations be more successful. It brings in water savings. And then when they move on, they take that center pivot, we keep the infrastructure on on the agricultural open space. So that's a benefit to them and us. So in the future, you know, these are some of the things that are going on right now with Greenway miles, we're, we're building two more miles of Spring Gulch, St. Brain Greenway phases 12 and 13. And then the trail that we'll be working on with the county and other partners to connect Union Reservoir to St. Brain State Park. And then back to some of that management of the open spaces that we do own. It's costly. We estimate that it costs about $7,000 in acre to restore and restoration is in the one time thing. It's an ongoing process. So working to get more dedicated staff to that effort. Stewardship plans are something that the program hasn't started on 0% done, but so those are property specific plans that we want to be doing for each year. Open space, agricultural property. And like I mentioned before, the next update of the 2018 open space master plan update. So this is just a summary of the things that we want to continue doing in the future with our program. Thank you. Any questions? Yeah. So it keeps over and over at mentions preserving our minerals, like protecting our minerals, also protecting the ag areas. And right now we have a new gravel mine going in and another ag area coming off on our main trail. So like that seems really counter and then we're going to expect people to just look at if you go the Greenway, St. Brain Greenway and the left hand Greenway, you go the left hand corridor and you go from county open space, which is being protected pretty well right now with old farms and that. And you go and there's extra building on each side and we now have a huge housing complex going in. Still bears there though because I still see bear scat and still deer going through, but it's super high impact housing all the way until you got where there was not ever dedicated open space that it was rec land. And that's being developed into a shopping mall. And then we have the rec center that just keeps getting bigger and bigger. So you've got like impact all the way through. It used to be just this was like nature trail, right? Like, oh, we love our nature trail. Well, now it's not a nature trail. And then it goes, you could continue into high density housing again. And then you've got the new Costco that was approved during the pandemic. And then you go straight to this farm that's gorgeous and that turkeys go through but they didn't this summer, because there's so much going on with Costco. It used to be a turkey nesting ground, but there's this farm and that farmer is losing his lease. And he knows it. Talk to him. He knows he's losing his lease with us with with Longmont open space. So he's going to lose that lease and that's kind of become something else. And then we're going directly into gravel mine. And then high density housing. And then maybe when we get way, way out there, it will become it will become open space again. So it's just see we like keep, you know, we say we're pretty, I don't know, it just doesn't seem like doesn't seem like that's walking the talk of protecting, you know, our minerals, leasing another gravel mine that used to be that used to be agricultural property and wasn't owned by us. But the agricultural property that leaves is not being extended. It's like the one little rest that I mean, our trails go by things like water treatment plants and old gravel mines, but you know, in backs of industrial sites. So I'm just, this is why I got on this board. This is really like this. I feel really passionate about it. I really I you you walked into this job and there's just there's some it's just going on all around us right now. And it's not being protected. It's not being protected at all. We have these little easements. And then, and every time people keep trying to like, Oh, but we we don't need to use the conservation easement in like a hotel being built right up to that keeps like keep applying to like that. Well, what's the river easement? I'm like the words are failing me the river easement the water yeah. Yeah, they're preparing and step back. You know, they keep trying to break it and all that stuff. It's just we're good. It's really tough. It's really tough seeing our open space where it counts. We can't have all of our open space view away from where people can see it every day like it can't be far away. It has to be right in front of us, right in our neighborhoods. That's what children get to access. That's what old people. That's what disabled people. That's what people that have transportation problems. You know, bus stop taking me out to those conservation areas right there. If I don't have a bike, that's that. Or if I can't ride a bike, my wheelchair can't make it out there. It needs to be right here and it keeps just getting built up. And so I'm just going to say keep it as nature is possible. Less knowing less everything. That's what people want, except for a few local people that want to lock their dogs on the lawn or something. But thanks. Sorry about my diet ride, but it's big. We need to bring that back. I don't know why we're ending on these for an agriculture in there. It's like you want to respond to that. This is going to be Tom Adams, which is basically on the global arts property, which is going to be north of 119 where cost bill is. Open space sometimes has opportunities. And a lot of times if you look at Boulder counties with telepons, if you look over at Walden ponds, Isaac East, a lot of these were opportunities where there was a great ground mining lease in place. And for the city then just to give that back to gravel mining company to reclaim it and do what they wanted with it. We lose control over that. So all these properties are purchased with that gravel mining right already sold. So that spot north of Golden Ponds when the city purchased the property, those mineral rights were already suffered. So that wasn't a giving up on it. That was, we knew when we acquired that property, that was to be gravel mined at some point. The city then has the ability to come in and say, how do we want to reclaim that? And one of the things we're working on right now with water resources is we channelize a lot of our creeks and stuff. So it's a gravel pond. If you think about even Isaac here or probably you have these kind of squarish ponds with the trail they want them, what will they help them do over there is allow the creek to have room to move back and forth in the under and use what now is that you say people farm and I love that view coming in too. But once that gravel mining is done, which the city had no say over, because that was sold by the Golden Family prior to the city purchase that, we have the ability to restore that in a way and we've worked with the mining company to do it the way that gives the creek much more room to meander, have a natural habit to have, survive more habit to have the turkey ears and cover as you move through that area. So that's the piece I would like to respond to is that again, that giving up on the open space values. I think Danielle's passion background in history is not giving up on it. Mine is not giving up on it. But I think the pieces you look at this to this yellow line of lines, what things you're trying to get at, you're saying open space needs right here. That's the piece if you look at our comp plans a long, a long time ago, when we built our first cities in this community, was that we wanted development in the center. We don't want to have sprawl. We want to have development where you had services. So there's a real commitment that development happens in the planning area and then open space doesn't compete with that. So we really do not get into acquiring open space within that yellow boundary. Because that's where primary jobs go. That really is where the housing, the community has decided they wanted to see the housing go. The piece with the greenway is the open space center. And I heard you pretty loud and clear if you don't have a bike, but really long line provides a great opportunity because kids can get out into the backyard, into a neighborhood park, and onto a neighborhood trail, and onto a greenway, and into an urban natural area like Dickens, and then continue down that same pathway out to a sandstone ranch or out to a golden pond, and then out to those other properties. So we have a great connectivity. I think that's the story Daniel has been trying to tell us. We started with a great park system, a really great trail system. We're really trying to tie that open space piece into it. But again, there's going to be a conversation with different boards and groups and community members about development and how we provide housing for people, how we provide jobs for people that also keep this natural area. So that's how I see these bitten together. And I do think though that as we looked at those areas with gravel lining, that's one of those places where the price is right because we've had mineral suffering and a lot of people, you know, it's hard to develop that. So we get a good bite of the apple with a fair price that allows us to do things within that footprint which we may not have had the chance to do otherwise. And I would just add that whenever we can, moving forward, we do acquire the mineral rights whenever we possibly can. And the silver lining of not having the mineral rights is those temporary intermittent royalties that come to us into our open space fund and allow us to do, you know, we find another piece of the creek quarter that we can protect and it's available to buy them. We have that money, we can buy that and we can continue to, you know, connect those riparian areas that you're speaking of. So again, that's why I did, again, I think that you set up great that you really, this, this group really is our open space sounding board. So getting this input from the community is a important spot for us to get that and hear about it as we move forward with plans, how we, how we message this to the community, how open space fits into the overall planning of our community in connection with our greenways and our parks and the development that I think, you know, council is very important to them, how do we provide housing for people, how do we provide the job to the community and strike that balance with our open space program. Thanks for sharing Erin. Yeah, I feel like maybe I'd like the city as a whole to be more cohesive on it, like it keeps, you know, kind of feels like when you suggest something, it's like that's planning, that's, you know, like that's planning, that's council this, but like I, I've had that same thing that you guys explained to me, explained to me five or six times. I know it, I know this, it doesn't change the fact of what it looks like to a citizen on a trail user. It doesn't change the fact that we didn't have another turkey nesting. You know, there's like, it doesn't change, doesn't change the real deal fact sometimes. And so, I mean, I think some of it can just be like the day-to-day management could also help. Like if we had, say, I'm a day-to-day management, like can we keep it as natural as possible? And can we mow less? And can we add less, like, you know, post-emergent weed control is one of the silliest things ever, like to do. It doesn't work. Like the contractors come out and everything goes to seed and gets worse and things like that. And spray green and there's herbicides everywhere. And I don't know, like this kind of stuff. And it just doesn't seem like there really is any way for public to have a say over that kind of thing. It's what I want to do to have a say over that kind of thing, you know how I'm saying. I had a couple of things. I guess the first one, I think there's quite a lot of interest in this topic. And so having another chance to talk about it with the full board at some point in the future will be great. I think I appreciate the sentiment that we have an opportunity to give you our feedback. I'd like to do that, but it's been a lot there. I had maybe two questions I'd ask about one. What has led to the change from being more opposition focused and more post-emergent? Just the growth of the city and the program and the fact that we've acquired a lot. And you can see from this map, you know, that the opportunities to acquire have diminished. Yeah, it was kind of hard to see, but if you throw in what Boulder County has and the city has, there's being a lot of those original goals and objectives in that, but it is, I think, to see those opportunities. Okay. And then I guess financially, does the department maintain funds to be able to make the opportunistic acquisitions? If those do happen, either with county partnership or an opportunity comes up? I remember hearing when I lived closer to Boulder about the same things that the county open space had and the open space had, and they were always able to pay what seemed like extremely large amounts for really beautiful properties. I would like to think that we could do the same function we came up with wouldn't be limited in some way by that, by having chosen the pursue maintenance and not a same for future acquisition. Does that make sense? You're saying in our piggy bank, we have enough to do maintenance and do acquisition as they come off. Yes. While our open space sales and use tax provides a bulk of it, and so our last large purchase that Adam's open space that is 130 acres, we had the money, but we also worked with partner relationships to get it done. And then we rely on some of those intermittent funding to keep to know to get us through as well. So we hope we do not have a big feedback is the answer. Adam's in the flows, I guess is the answer. Yeah. But the reason I ask is as we look towards 34 and re-enabling that I think 15 years of maintenance is not a great story to be able to extend the tax. And so continue to consider acquisition, understanding that there's not a lot of opportunities and we have achieved a lot of goals in the program, but as an option when it's opportunistic and available is interest. Yeah, I think one thing that I hear you and I kind of agree, I agree with that, right? It's not as exciting as acquisition. However, it's just as important now that we have these areas. How do we educate the public about what ecological restoration is how long it takes, how expensive it is. We've been starting to go out a little bit with council members and residents and just showing them out in the field what these open spaces are, what they look like on and around. And it's such a different view than us sitting here and looking at math. But you know, how do you do that? In the same way that that ballot issue that you're with the recreation centers, how do you, you know, those pictures aren't going to be on the ballot either. So yeah, how do you do that? It's a really good question. It's a piece I think that open space programs struggle all the time because there's always that portion of community to say when's enough enough? And what are you just going to be thinking? Even internally, staff is very overwhelmed with who got more property to maintain. So we're going to have maintenance and perpetuity. So we have a long-term obligation to maintain these properties that we've done a great job of acquiring in years and that does not go away. So I think that's these key pieces we have to, you know, the people know that this is going on and, you know, that Daniel talked about restoring those properties after we do the gravel lines sort of become places for them on the turkey and all those pieces. But I actually agree. You should always have some dry powder available that when that opportunity comes up, before the county wants to partner, we have a chance to work with, again, partners we didn't think about, that's well-county coming to us instead of they want to work with a project the town of Mead's in because we do a greenway connection and not have that ability. But again, it's like your wreck piece. We don't want to get in front of you on this. You have nothing to play. But those are the new ones of this. How do you package this in a way the less people know that our our goal is to kind of strike that balance you talked about. We don't want to give up on those opportunities to expand our program. We also know that we have an obligation to maintain what we have in perpetuity. And isn't that what GOCO funding often is as we have this GOCO funding? Some of the stuff happened before you were here. We've got it. Let's go back all the time. Yeah, we can just just already look at me. So here's a piece that I'll talk about. Daniel talked about with some of the oil and gas revenue that there's a little bit of that money that, you know, isn't the greatest say that we have coming to Longmont. Constantly great job at keeping that out of here. But we have historic oil and gas and gravel that comes into this revenue prior to being here. And I pulled the stuff up for Daniel and Stephanie that there was kind of a commitment those GOCO dollars were supposed to be going towards the creation completion of the greenways. Best expensive process. Daniel has hit a snike in her greenway extension. And our bond language and our battle language for open space is pretty clear that those dollars can be used for open space acquisitions. And those include the connectivity and connection of those properties to our greenway system. So we can use open space dollars for our greenways. Our GOCO dollars do not even touch the $5 million underpass she has to put in. So we are leveraging those GOCO dollars right now to complete the greenway using some open space dollars to do that. Once the greenway is done, we have made a commitment. Jeff knows I'm aware of the commitment that was made before I got here. That once the greenways are done, those GOCO dollars really have the ability under the language of GOCO to go to the library, to go to the rec center, to go to other places in the community. So I really think that in the future, are those GOCO dollars really looking to manage open space or to manage the greenways? I think there's other people in the city that would say that there's other ways to use that and we should be looking at our open space dollars to manage our open space. And I'm not saying that the recreation museum or library are a priority, but they need to at least be at the table because we've had this agreement for many, many years and it's time that at least other things are being considered. And we really have 13 with Danielle's working on and then we have 12 which will go out to Golden Ponds and out to Boulder County's property. And at that point we'll probably be close to having the greenway completed. We'll have that conversation with Jeff on how those lines should be spread across the community. So I don't want you to think that I think that you're doing a bad job or that open space isn't great. I just want a better word. Does that make sense? Because you know I like we do a good job and I want to do even better. I want to like push even better but not even better saying like you're bad. But some of those things there's heartbreakers when you see the land go that's heartbreaking. And it's also really heartbreaking for people when they go vote and they're gonna be like my trail goes through the back of a you know mall you know. So that's kind of some of the hard stories. My last comment maybe would be that you know 11 years is a long time you know to wait for the renewal of the tax. Probably be what nine years before you begin to think about that renewal of dollars but they're you know not constrained by the funding you have if we look for public income adding more funding to the program. We only have the tax we have but one great way to get feedback and what people want to buy more land is to put on a belt. And so thinking about changing the program you don't have to not change it for 11 years and then keep the same tax and funding that increases a bit as tax revenues go off. But there may be people that are interested in funding at a higher level but we will never know who will ask the voters. And so I'm not saying we have to do that just an idea that one way to increase the amount of the program is to have my money. If there's no option to do that it's either have more revenues from gas and gravel or raise more tax dollars. It may be worth trying to find out if that's possible. It's not a pleasure to say you should do that but that would be a way to transform the program or be able to reach the goals that you have. I have one question. So in an earlier slide you had dates and timelines and I think you were talking about doing the master plan. I saw 2020 group or that. Am I making that up? Yeah regional quarters and connections. That's us working on that. Okay okay. I guess my question here is you said it's about the time in five years you should be visiting the master plan list. So we're there. What are you like what are the inputs into this process that we're doing in the master plan helping you through that? I think it's a lot of what you said about having continued conversations and I have this the 2018 update in front of me and moving forward. What are the important statistics and figures that aren't in here that would tell the story that would be our guiding document for this process that we want to go through and what are those other ideas and are there are there surveys that we want to be doing? Right right. I think my question comes about is this going to be a evolutionary update or a revolutionary update? Is it going to be like just a simple thing that we did in 2018 or is it going to be like a full like tariff counter? I don't think it needs to be torn down. Not torn down. It's really a good indication but I do think what I would like to see is real statistics facts and figures that like you know it's an opportunity right I think this is an excellent plan but what I want more depth to it. So there's some kind of like studies that have to be part of that process and probably funding for those studies as well. Sure. It takes funding to do a master plan process but I mean not astronomical enough. The things that we can help make recommendations work I guess through that process. Absolutely yes yes definitely I think this belongs in future agendas. Yeah I have a bunch more questions but I want to save time for Aisha. Oh no we don't want to block you down. We want to get this in front of you and again on that piece of throat is there are groups out there in our community out of looking at how we could extend this and we've been kind of working with them to try to time things that you know council has a lot of their plates boards have a lot of their plates we're trying to not get in the way of grassroots enthusiasm for the program but we also want to make sure that people are coordinating thinking smartly this group has learned in the past but not doing that can do for an initiative so we're trying to walk that fine line of trying to make sure that people are community that want to make sure this gets extended and again that's a ways out but again if we want to bond those the post you could do that extension it's harder to bond those those dollars too so that's what having that extension sooner than later could do to it allows us to make that big acquisition we make that that bonding piece of our our piece too because that gap is harder for us to go and get a good rate up on. It also ties into you know I was here in February and we were talking about joint efforts with Boulder County and that kind of future planning and you know that's also a piece of this and that sort of large picture partner thinking and planning is is a piece of this too so yeah I look forward to coming back and talking to you. Yeah when you're ready let us know. Well thank you for the presentation. Okay thank you. We'll keep pressing on. So it's similar but different next item on the agenda is greenway updates. Yes and I asked Stephanie to be here this evening to get another face in front of you where you're probably used to seeing Steve here for this group. Again we've been very fortunate in fact that is the cities wanted to push forward getting some of our park projects completed. Those prizes were being worked on best at this group. It was kind of the Steve and Kathy they kept it up to this kind of Steve doing that. We've expanded that group and Stephanie could talk about a little bit but the parks and the greenways were always on that group. Having the open space and almost both programs take on some of these out of the city planning area portions of the greenways I think is going to help Stephanie but still in town. Her and her staff have been really working on the RSVP and the greenway connections in town so I'll let her talk about that and be in the questions you have for her. Well I'm assuming that you are curious still about the closure behind that. That's curious. And it is still closed. So you know we did update in the packet and it will be closed until summer of 25 most likely due to the United States Armed Court Engineering Project which is going to start construction in November. They're going out today and they'll select a GC end of September. There's really nothing we can do about it. They're reging keeping and widening the channel and then they're going to rebuild that pedestrian bridge under Boston Bridge as part of that Boston Bridge project as well. So then the idea is that whenever we do have higher flow rates in the spring that the pedestrian area will run from the channel. So I don't I wish I had better information but there's just no way around it because of what they're doing in the river and removing material out of the river and using that section. I don't have any good information. I've kind of given up on that one. Is there anything that can be done to improve the detour for two years? Yeah, that's it. That detour is sketch and scary and hard to manage. Boston Ave is a tough street that's quite wide so it feels safer but I think people drive faster on it and has a lot of like off-angle terms on Boston Ave. It's been there for a long time which we've been shown a reason why. How can it be done to temporarily improve that path of detour? And let me pull up really quick. The team that's managing the project, they're managing the communication on the website. It's overseeing the widening of the channel, the deepening of the channel, the bridge. So as we know where the detour is. And I have written it. I totally understand it. So maybe an idea would be because it's it's road here. It's soft path here and comes back down and connects actually over here to get back on the same train. If they could do like and this has just been crazy for me right now because I don't honestly know what has been discussed with that team but doing a bike path that maybe has some sort of a buffer between. I don't know if history is wide enough but you know where we you don't have just a painted line but maybe like a little. I think revolutionaries are wrong. Yeah. I mean if we have just exploring ideas I don't I don't know aside from that route that's the sensuous route. It is. I my comments really just about the southern part of it. The first avenue is basically a pedestrian walkway that really drives on that but the Boston Avenue connection to price is price there right? Yeah it's really complicated and one of the sides doesn't stop right and it's I'm a very comfortable cyclist I'm happy to navigate that. There's a bunch of other ways to go around and that just in itself is quite the safe front of that screen or cyclist. So just gonna be there for a while. Anything we can do to temporarily slow traffic or provide up there. Would you find you know somewhat of a buffered bike lane would you prefer over right now it's just I think the Chevrons that are kind of directing you and some yeah I think your group put up. Yeah so yeah so so uh first off like if we could use Bowen extension rather than go out to Boston going out to Boston is a dangerous prospect anyway and we're back to where we were three years ago with all the homeless trucks and campers and stuff on price. So if you could come off the greenway immediately take the left staying away from that intersection of Boston and the price and so you cut it. You might just cut the most real quick. There's a little zigzag right from the south. So it's like right here basically so there's a there's there's this other little road there's already stuff that left hand owns over here and so there's auto body shops yeah and that sort of thing but it's it's like zero traffic right so instead you're coming out here and you're asking people to basically counter-flow on a sidewalk which there's no place in the entire city we ask people to do that right and so that is it's not maintained it's doesn't stop line direction it doesn't stop yeah so it's if you take um I think this is called Bowen Street it's Bowen Circle Bowen Circle yeah is that you went and took this instead you're at least crossing at the 90 degree or the crosswalk was played and you have some sight lines although for little kids we timed it on Wednesday it's not great because people come around this this corner you have like eight seconds from when you see them to when they're at the crosswalk so it's not a lot of time for like a family little kids trying to cross that road so um so we don't really have a solution for that other than the um you know it would be great to renegotiate the size of those little detour things so I don't know that's as big as I could get the detour signs um I would like to break here or because of what the city would allow because the city would allow so somebody in transportation is no longer here in the city because they were not official city detour signs um that's the size that was on there too basically it's the size of other trail signs I'm saying but we do them as yellow there's tons of problems people can't see them there's people who have sight issues that would love us to instead spray on the on the ground to be able to see it because you have to instead look in you know kind of a busy background to be able to see these signs to be able to to see that but the other thing is just just get rid of this down here this isn't this isn't this isn't a detour price price to sell sunset down here that's super dangerous like ridiculously dangerous to like even tell people they should be going down over by Nelson and price and getting on to sunset yeah it's quite hurt and I'll I'll connect with the team that has kind of put this plan in action it actually isn't being managed by our team as far as the detour but they can listen as needed and this feedback is good I'll go back with them we can talk about you know the signage and maybe putting something like this by the city and and I'll certainly open this discussion I think okay and there really should be signage I'd like there's no reason why we can't bite on the ground like there are some shampoos on the first street section yeah okay yeah but then one more but one more yeah like we really can't do it see that I'll go back I don't have any interest in getting out of my local bath and I'll circle up because the other part that would be that would be great to see is you know it does get maintained possibly once in a while is that because of the bridge project this alignment is getting pushed out further is what we understand but until it does connecting the river to south francis to price is the preferred route like if you're going to take this southern route right is how connect right here and then connect over and it's all 88 because it's all side it's all it's kind of sidewalk for all right so but yeah this other part is okay this is the two areas that feel like I think one is the detour and signage for the cycle detour the other is there are options for communication to for example add stop sign their price at the standard places that I don't want to do that ever but there are other ways to temporarily improve traffic in the area yeah that would be permanent our options too that it's just like that's totally fun yeah I mean the problem with the stop sign is then cyclists think there's gonna I've been trying to get a stop sign you know cyclists will think there's a stop sign people are gonna stop but it's a new stop sign this is the argument anytime and it's a new stop sign so people won't stop so it would be actually less safe than having a stop sign because people might not stop there well yeah I guess we shouldn't ask you about stuff I know I agree with you I like and you know Boston will probably get resurfaced after the bridge project and so so that's been the long-standing reason for not yes it's not saying that yeah that's the eastern way path yeah for that community and that's pretty deep to the community too otherwise there's a price yeah and so there's an alignment the alignment is going to move further west even so well that bridge is getting longer it is it's getting longer but it's it's gonna be on it's gonna get longer on this side as well from what I understand it's not just the west side so you're asking for that other portion of the bike route because right now they're going they're getting up here coming down going back yeah going up but over here you're saying to have a place for them to come down because right now the road goes down here so right but I don't know and that's what I'll need to check in with and hopefully nobody actually really does that I just think taking those signs down would be much better because I run into not physically but seeing cyclists at sunset and like Nelson and there's no reason why a cyclist should get a sunset and Nelson looking at science is not a good place for somebody to be and so yeah it's you know this is not it's not a whole dangerous mess so um and then you then you're gonna try to come to question I guess so this is Colorado material here I guess it comes down to what's the area of this that they're going to put you know the need for construction and I'm guessing that this is Colorado material but the river side that road yeah yeah if you can get to this section here but if they close that well so yes the idea is that there's the southerly route is Sunset Boston River Francis Pike the northerly route is um but um bridge bowling circle bowling first right so that way you have it you know directional detour this is that bow and circle right there yeah right there yeah so they say they're directional there's a crosswalk here detour which it isn't now it's sort of like go choose either way most people are choosing then the northern path to go there with the proximity to the intersection yeah the crosswalk was put in as a conceit for this because we couldn't what Biscoe Longmont argued was a removal of the center lane so you could create bike lanes and it was like well we're gonna re-surface it any days now that was five years that was five years ago so if you just read you know if you did center lane it you could put a real bike lane in and I'll be doing add to the bureaucracy of this too but I've again since almost our first day I'll that's just definitely one of what we've driven it she's ridden it yeah we've tried to figure it out but she does have some constraints with working the engineering and transportation too so it's something we can't fix in this room it goes back to her piece I think it's in planning score is in entering but Stephanie is on those teams I think it's a conversation she should be good at kind of taking this messy forward as my now six months has become a thing I am I am getting to be more in favor of that team and so I'm happy to reach out to her we didn't talk a lot but hearing your concerns I think we can find us to make it better there's an issue that's what you do so we'll work on them and we'll let's see I'll bring it back to you next time okay yeah and we can sit on the on the bicycle side there are people who are in person answering the approach which is not well it's like the almost like closure of Boston Avenue and putting the grass space like that's gonna happen anytime soon we have to build a bridge first so there's so there are even you know people in the bus there's a big range as well but I mean just having a safer way to cross more clear directions would help a lot it's all great suggestions the the zigzag over development I mean I think I just need I can just hear them saying they're crosswalking so that would be the concern not any less dangerous than what it is now the railroad crossing has gotten has deteriorated pretty bad going southbound on Bowling over the railroad at First Avenue there is it now a giant hole that that's spray painted by someone like three months ago but it still is a good size hole that's there that's basically in the bike path or car tire path but it means new timbers yeah it would be great if there was someone who put the cement I guess we've always heard of it well they just did do an improvement to the tracks down on over yep I mean were there other greenway updates that you want to put the ride I don't have any uh this is really the focus of the work right now right yeah some in our street team are doing some of the reach two or three for the sprinkler which out on the east side of town and then Danielle's got the phase 13 there's a lot of things in your way I am I just made an opportunity to see me at the end of that for my position and she comes from across the country and she's clearly got a lot of great skill sets and I think she'll be a great addition to the team so she's going to come in and then working on not going to get another so we're going to have a team of four project managers here soon and then we're going to see some stuff that we didn't know about the list it's been a very interesting six months so I feel like we took it and we lost it and now we're going to do it back so and then Danielle will be a project manager her group will focus on some of these overlapping greenway projects that fall under the open space umbrella but also one of the first projects is talking about using the reservoir expansion that project manager will be focused on some of those as well just those group notes just because we're getting going back to that cost of managing maintaining an inquiry we had to pull phase 13 really off our work plan because we needed those sorry 12 going you know we're actually going to pull it off our work plan so we shift those dollars over to 13 to make sure we could take it to council as a fully funded project will we evaluate that next year it's a critical piece for the community and for you know this group to try to get that full extension done but just if you look at things don't see it there that 12 was pulled off just so we shift those dollars over to Danielle's question that's like two months ago three months ago there was a comment about one last landowner on the 12 section and they've almost been done the farmers on that yes um it's on the 13 other was no we have one there too this is oh and they're asking about 12 they go down one so Danielle can talk about her her heck up there and getting more of these costs just come up but um the golden family when they sold and they were developing that they have family members a lot of them to sign up on this um RG Golden has a property manager that's really helping to show up with that through um that name we talked about Tom Adams the partner over there in the north of 118 you talked about a Costco piece we talked about some help space that family's involved in my stuff that they're looking to sit down so this is kind of dropped to a lower level on that that piece going out west on it but it it's not off her radar it's not off my radar and all right um great I should know 13 update to mention briefly that I'm with that 60 design was completed um and I asked this maybe a few months ago but that's not public though right those designs 60% it's not published on work until it's final it's not published yeah um it's not how secret it's a lot more right because of the property changes and one guy that office I think understanding um the ocean protection is kind of really awesome just so you know because I was talking to her all day I'm told that Danielle's been stuck in is um um the big probably the biggest change in this and Danielle talked about some of the challenges she's faced is that remember this was supposed to go under 119 at the same green creek but after 2013 flood the state redid their hydrology and they pulled it up the table and said we can do nothing that impacts a rise in the flood plain there so the whole plan of going under an existing underpass was taken off the table by the same agency we're partnering with to get this project done and who is across the road from us waiting for us to connect so it's been a little bit of a frustration but Danielle is really pushed on is there any way we can use that and we're like the guinea pigs in this new flood plain period you want to talk about your experience in that Danielle um it's just it's just added complication and time to the project but we're we're through a lot of it um we've worked through those details and that's why you know I can show you this this is our 60 design plan and it shows you where we're crossing now a little bit to the west to get to the north side of 119 and then we'll travel across um heading east um in the sea dot right of way connect to the state park and to avoid a rise in the flood plain over there we're building a 240 foot span single span bridge um without peters so that we meet the sea dot modeling hydrology is required that's huge yeah there are three bridges on this project now they were never populated in the beginning I mean just the one underpass but it's but now we're building a new one there we've got the 240 foot span one there and then we have to avoid this telephone tower I'm counting about five so we're building a bridge there as well so the bridge okay so we're taking bridges not over monitor but over cars uh well one is under a highway one is over some water but uh the majority of it is I'm not criticizing it I was just clarifying like not just seven bridges it would cross no no no bridge over cars no underpass under cars yeah the underpass is going under the highway oh I thought that's what you said that we couldn't be okay no so we're building a new one so there are there are existing damaged underpasses that cross 119 and that is what we can't use so Daniel you just kind of show where it goes under right now well the original intent was where the creek goes under that's where we were supposed to go and with the new flood plain modeling that was taken off the table so we're going to build a new underpass here so I'm going to mention that that's a piece of this project it's a 10 million dollar 2.5 mile section of trail five million of it is this new underpass that we're building to get over there and then we will um and then we will do the the bridge to connect into the state park over here north here of the highway this is the single span bridge like wetland area yeah because it's like plain and then we have to cross the creek to get back over to the there will be crossing there um and then this is the underpass that the second and then there's a there'll be a bridge over here okay so all over this view shed of Golder Creek states which we talked about in the presentation this bridge here will be overlooking all of this it'll be it'll be the views will be spectacular on this section of trail over here too and it keeps us out of the eagle habit had it keeps us out of the flood plain it does a lot of yeah I mean I this is what was coming to my mind when you were speaking before is that um you know when this trail was first imagined we thought about being down here down by the creek down right in the wild area but instead we're choosing to be out of the wild area not fragment the wild area keep the wild habitat here you know one of our last unfragmented wild places in the middle of the city and be up here and see get the views into this but educational signage here and keep all of this intact even though the river moves all those standing dead cottonwoods that are down there is is is um eagle roosts that are being currently used and so working with our partner CPW we really looked at this and thought we can still have an amazing trail experience if we stay out of there and keep it on right now and just to give Daniel so just so people know what she went through this was a big internal and external conversation because people most people think about the greenway right along the creek and they want experiences I think it's a human evolutionary piece to be along water too so to really pull that greenway out of that area to protect that habitat um was a hard conversation when I it wasn't even the consultants that we hired were like what are we doing why did we and but now we're on we're all on the same page had a couple quick questions um this is a very cool city so awesome working with this far um how will we want to work along since the drive um so it'll it'll be alongside the road here and then yeah it'll continue this is the upper parking lot and then we have um it'll come so we've got these two landowners here that share a driveway so it'll continue along the road and then it'll it'll cut in to get it'll go over their driveway and then it'll cut in to get up onto here so the the this is skyway drive all the businesses et cetera all their driveways come out over here you will be behind them behind them that works so she's here second one she she would head for job right the needle with neighbors that are gonna have a trail in the backyard when we move out there wasn't the right fixation and this landowner yeah she's gonna have instead of this view she's gonna have a trail like this is her window this is her window but so she was okay with that yeah yours made her okay okay we've had a lot of conversations about it yeah what where it goes along the back of all the businesses is there any where I'd avoid a connect from the trail into that area into which area into that so you can stop from here and say you're up above it they there's a fence on those collision has a fence yes and and these two developers that are coming in are going to be doing similar to what collision is doing so no I mean you think they'd want it yeah you think they want it because who I mean you've already ridden 15 miles you want to stop for a beer we had all the conversations about all that you know one we imagined at one point that maybe the trail will be here this is going to be a better user experience they'll still get the bike in and foot traffic as a result of the trail coming close so and one just one other question about the on the sensitive drive the part that goes on parallel to the road there yes did you look at options to put it on the road like bike lanes it seems like a lot of trails have built along a very quiet road I write that section all the time and there's the only reason to drive down that is if you're going into the center which nothing any courage or work to go to that site is there and it seems like building a new path through a pretty steep complex kind of hillside there it's pretty expensive and is there any way to I don't know move things along well it's less expensive because it's following the road and what a huge consideration here is ADA and doing the best we can to make you know bikeable and ADA compliant here so yeah we looked at going out and around and being over here we looked at maybe coming up and we looked at all all possibilities and the path of these resistance is to be here along the road you know there there there is I mean I kind of agree driving that road isn't scary at all like it's fine just a steep to go right next to it and we're putting a whole bunch of new concrete right well we are we we do have drainage issues going on with the road here so we're we're going to be improving that because we have you know so right at the visitor center we've got the way it is right now when this was built somehow um now the the water washes over the road when there's any sort of storm event so that will be corrected by our trail coming through we'll deal with the drainage issues so we'll see improvements there and then we'll be safer um and you know we do have and I acknowledge it doesn't occur way down here it occurs up here in our parking lots but we do have you know soccer traffic lots of sports traffic and things like that so continuing to have a trail that is is not the road it was it was thought that can mine if I ask spring old to number three what's the standard design with our streets team okay um and I understand that's the aerial number two and so probably our number one question everybody's like oh we're like got got to Union Grads now I turn around go back the other way because I mean half the year that the dirt roads are so buddy or buddy that nobody wants to run so all right let's um head on over to the items in the packet updates are there any items in the packet that you have one more question Scott you go first um okay um so I thought one was was uh kind of funny from uh today amazing with it so it's uh page nine the equal eye level uh you tripped over it I think yes was that in the packet today or no it's in the in the packet says we're doing great and our equal eye levels are so low that we're eating all these other people but yes our equal eye numbers by I guess boys are seeing you right in your other days you got the numbers for water quality lab um so first I'll give you what what our typical numbers are which is around two the state asks us to close it around 230 I think is the number for that and somehow in our last testing week we're over 700 yeah and they don't open you know a lot of times that's you know like big rain events and watch those things down the temperatures get right does it those things seem to be in place so the wind is what they were at all that wind pushing stuff down towards this one beach that's just a I guess price is trying to be out something that would have made sense to align with that high number so really we're having a retest it is the biggest thing and you know just you know following state guidelines you definitely close the beach I can't imagine today but Jeff did you hear anything on your side different than what well the beach actually closes Wednesday during the week oh yeah right so yeah like I had right here and say he's like you're not gonna believe this I would but it's been a few years since that yeah yeah I just want to say like the brightest five thing am I allowed to say thing it's the horticultural maintenance that we're gonna switch turf high water turf to lower landscaping like hopefully just the grass that would normally grow without irrigation and turn off those things that makes me happy just just so you know we had a media of our water resources group and this is again that collaborative piece that we're always working with water conservation group our parks group timbers group and grad has a great background that so we're looking at you make those changes work for appropriate this deputy herd group the other piece that we hope we don't have to do converges in the future is it we're trying to design these parks in a way that that does that as well so again you know you and I are on this too we're always going to have that blending of the people want that bluegrass turf to do those pieces but where we can minimize that we're always looking for that so super excited great great result I think that I'm just gonna throw up and I think it's exciting too um you've seen other communities try this and it had huge failures I mean they paid over a million dollars to tear turf out play low water turf in it fails the community is upset they have to tear that out put new grass back in and now they probably never have a chance at the trust of the community we have done small trials around the city where no one knows if we fail and the fails is not a huge cost we now have information on what not to use we have areas that have worked really well um we kind of tucked away places and so to go forward with larger projects that I think we have a good toolbox to pull from and stuff we share with the community on what has worked well and not so I think ours is going to be an education piece too Sam I got a question I had two things one on union also my first year as a householder has been amazing I was surprised or ever that's sad to see the closing date I just haven't followed in years past the closing is just the swimming beach so you can still paddle forward or you can swim to the beach and just the swimming and like grains all the changes okay I think of a website it sounds like the whole thing is closing so just basically clarifying something about like you can still do 90% of what you do at union but because the dates you see for opening are like it's open for the season and then it closes august 19th swimming and you know parentheses whatever it says so um but I just had a great experience as a householder this year and it's my first time so kudos to you guys on what a great facility it is um my other question was in the packet there was a mention of the Thompson renewal which is my neighborhood Jen's like about um that's yours today um I saw that's potentially going to RFP soon cool awesome that was a question people were asking about it yeah so we're going to get the the website updated with all of our communications am I adding anything so we'll have that one off the 8 and 5 projects being very clean but at least it she used to be a technician in that zone for seven years so she knows the struggles and she's got some great ideas and she's got a good team so that would be fair enough that one I think is actually I said I think that one's actually wouldn't this month but it will be awarded in September in RFP through activities oh did okay great very exciting thank you that's all I have any other comments from that packet I was going to say thank you Steve for uh hoping to be on our opening with um uh okay let's move on to I think it's public record so just turn to the camera and say thank you Steve thank you I'll check the time mark and send it yeah okay yeah we'll get my credit items from staff items from the board that aren't we never actually bring things up in this section do it because we cover in the packet updates or whatever any items from the board that are not related to the packet updates necessarily you want to raise I was going to mention the resolution but we got that already so for next meeting because it'll be after the second yep definitely agree with that okay uh with that you could probably move on to our adjourn so if you have a motion to adjourn I'll move to adjourn for a second all right thank you everybody thank you