 This program is brought to you by Cable Franchise Vs and generous donations from viewers like you. Seen as we have a quorum of the town of Amherst Town Council present, I will call the meeting to order and we are going to review the agenda and also during the agenda, I would like to recognize some of our special guests who I I think are just here to observe But you may decide you want to make public comment. So first of all a couple of announcements The on February 25th the Finance Committee is posted as a Committee of the whole for the purpose of hearing the annual audit report of the town and the auditors will be present for that I did let the council know this and Please let us know if you're coming on March 9th 2020 at 6 30 p.m. There will be a hearing in this room. It has been posted and it is for the towns to it is to Hear the towns proposed changes to parking on Lincoln Avenue Third item and this will be part of our discussion later The results of this Eric Nakajima has tendered his resignation from the Amherst school committee effective March 1st 2020 the council will be discussing The proposed process for selecting his replacement later in the agenda this evening The school committee will have a similar discussion on Wednesday at that regular meeting Announcement regarding the vacancy will be published on or about March 2nd 2020 there is a fairly prescribed process in the town charter, so it's not like we're making the whole thing up I'd like to call your attention to the published vacancies on various committees and especially the zoning Board of Appeals interested parties must fill in the Calf in accordance with the deadlines stated on the town website Regarding tonight's agenda, which is up here in the order in which we will be taking the items As we continue to look for ways to shorten our meetings Tonight we are We will ask that we spend rules a procedure 8.4 for two items seven D and 7g and we did that last time so this is not a new process In addition to this that however we will have a consent agenda item and the consent agenda item will be for town manager committee appointments and Minutes unless someone decides there's an item they would like to discuss and we will take that off the consent Agenda at the time, okay a consent agenda contains routine and typically non-controversial issues Which do not need further discussion and may be approved with one motion and vote This will not be there will not be a separate discussion of these items If discussion is desired, then we remove them off of the consent agenda in order of the meeting I Don't be discouraged, but we are going to go into very very very brief executive session and Be right back, but you'll sit here. We'll go in there and Then we'll we will come back out and continue with the meeting the rest of the agenda is in the order as it is presented on On the website and back there Okay The so we're going to move on to executive session, okay There were no hearings tonight obviously so In accordance with mass general law C 30 a paragraph 21 in Prince a six We will be going into executive session to consider the purchase exchange lease or value of real property I'm declaring that this is an open We declare that this might have an open meeting might have a detrimental effect on the negotiating position of the public body And we now proceed to have a motion and take a roll call vote. Can I have a motion, please? Amanda John I Move to enter into executive session to consider the purchase exchange lease or value of real property as an open meeting may Have a detrimental effect on the negotiating position of the public body The council will convene and open reconvene in open session is there a second second Okay, George a second of roll call vote Bob Elm Brewer D'Angelo's yes, Dumont. Yes, Grisimer. Yes, Hanakie. Yes, Pam. Yes Ross. Yes, Ryan. Yes, Shane Shriver. Yes Steinberg. Yes, Swartz. Yes. Thank you Okay We literally I hope we'll be back in five minutes. Thank you It'll shows up as a statistic and is available currently to Reporting agencies that report to landlords and as a barrier for low-income people finding new housing so that Some of the people that I formerly worked with in legal aid Have been very concerned about both issues because they create homelessness When it may not be necessary either because people can't Raise the defenses that they need to raise in an eviction proceeding when there are evictions or they get penalized when they shouldn't be for long periods of time and The legislature has been working on this. I have spoken with our senator and our representative and They're very supportive of this legislation North the city of Northampton a number of other communities have passed similar resolutions and We were asked to consider doing so it was referred to the CRC. I said I would take on their responsibility of seeing it through and communicating with the advocates Because they were all people that I worked with in my former career and it's all about issues that I've worked on for Probably 35 years so that if there are any questions, I'll be glad to answer them, but I think that that's the Limit of it and I would Therefore if permitted to make a motion make a motion otherwise, I'll leave it to someone else to make a motion CRC do you want to report? I mean a GOL Joel Reviewed this on February 24th and voted it clear consistent action will buy a vote of four to zero with one absent Okay Yes, the one other question I have for GOL is is that the amended motion or the amended Resolution has two additional wear as clauses and they are highlighted for Counselors in yellow so that they're easy to spot the statistics or statistics provided by the courts of people who actually had entries of lawyers on behalf of tenants if GOL feels that because they did not see those two wear as clauses and The For they're uncomfortable making a conclusion then I think a motion on the original Resolution is in order. I have no objection to that happening. Otherwise, I have those two additional wear as clauses Which are explained in the memorandum I referred to Those people who are on GOL Just quickly looking for you They are George Evan Mandy Joe Steve and Pat any objection to the additional wear as is Okay Mandy Joe, did you not catch the missing and at the end of the highlighted wear as Evan couldn't resist I Did not So we could just add that in Otherwise, yes, it's fine. I see after the first second wear as there should be the word and Okay Inside baseball gang just you know, it's not easy to be chair on that committee. Tell me tell me All right, is there a motion? Mandy Joe and I moved to adopt the resolution and support of right to counsel in eviction cases and eviction ceiling to promote housing opportunity mobility as presented in the document titled Amherst and Vic Amherst eviction Counsel and Homes Act resolution amended draft is there second Okay, that's a second Any further discussion? All those in favor raise your hand and say aye. Aye opposed Abstain, okay 1300 The next item on our agenda is in fact The consent agenda. We have no discussion items tonight and the I'm sorry. Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you the Tibet Resolution will come before the council on November. I mean on March 9th in Between now and then it will go to the governance organization and legislation committee to determine its action ability It is significant different Significantly different from previous Resolutions and therefore we felt it needed to be looked at so but to bet day is the 10th So we'll need to have something to act on the next time we meet Okay We are moving on to the consent agenda in this case. There are two appointments public shade tree committee and a appointment for the energy and climate action committee and there are also two sets of minutes for February 10th For the public forum and for February 10th for the regular meeting. Does anybody want to remove anything from the consent agenda? Seeing none, then could I have a motion, please for the consent agenda? Mandejo, you're gonna be the motion maker tonight I move to move the following items and the printed motions there under and approve those items as a single unit eight a one approval of the town manager appointments to the public shade tree committee eight a two Approval of the town manager appointments to the energy and climate action committee Ten a approval of February 10 2020 town council public hearing minutes Ten be approval of February 10 2020 town council meeting minutes Is there a second? Any further discussion? Yes, Evan just felt it would be appropriate for me to say that Oka voted unanimously to recommend that the town council approve both of the sets of appointments. Okay. Thank you. Any further discussion? Then all those in favor raise your hand and say aye. I opposed Abstain, okay, then we are moving on to The open container bylaw amendment and this is our first discussion Evan So in response to some critiques last time about a memo not being dated or having any name on it I submitted a revised memo that has a bit more explanation in it and included the three bylaws from surrounding communities Northampton Hadley and South Hadley just to show you how What I'm recommending compares to other communities You'll notice that what I'm recommending is almost identical to Hadley's bylaw with the exception of swapping out select board with board of licensed commissioners But otherwise there has been no changes since the last time we looked at this on January 27th Okay, are there questions? Yes, Dorothy Well, as you may remember I supported this bylaw at the last meeting Because it supports local beers and is Clearly important for economic development and because I said I have seen it work well in other settings However, I'm wondering do we need something here that says That there is an assumption that the permit Obtainer Is responsible to make sure that the behavior at the is is Correct and that if the behavior at an event that they have a permit for does not meet Unappropriate neighborhood standard that they might not get a permit next time I mean, is there any kind of threat of of of observance and enforcement? heaven My thought is that that would be part of the board of licensed commissioners regulations So all of this does is open the door for them to promulgate regulations and issue permits And that's where I expect that those types of considerations would be worked in Yes, elissa So speaking of last time so I was a little unhappy with this only from the standpoint that Not having any sense of how those regulations are going to be promulgated in terms of How they're going to draw lines as to who gets a permit and who doesn't get a permit How that decision might be made in terms of organizations non-profits locally based et cetera et cetera And also the fact that it's wide open to both areas downtown that quite obviously benefit The downtown economy if you're at kendrick or on the common or at suitzer versus at mill river in the midst of 15 other activities that are taking place. And so I'm uneasy from that standpoint I do just want to mention as an aside because it was mentioned that it benefits local beer. That's not true We have had alcohol licensing that was for amherst college a post Associate with the taste that had no local beers at it whatsoever So to assume that it means it's going to be local is not a safe assumption now it could be that the license commission Could say that there's there could be an emphasis on that or that would like give somebody additional points toward their application or something if they were using but There's at this point until they write a regulation like that which I like you say I assume would also include stuff about cleaning up just like when you Make a reservation for the common. There's a whole bunch of information there about how you have to clean up That I mean that's potentially something that could be passed along to the board of license commissions Just see if that's something you're allowed to ask for is to give people additional points for local But it's not and again, you know, I see a difference between our downtown areas And the outlying parks and other recreation areas, but You know this as everyone said just opens the door and the regulations are in the hands of the board of license commissioners Any other discussion or questions? Mindy Joe I just want to say something technical on on the agenda that said it was a first discussion under relate point four It's actually a first reading under the charter 2.10 just to clarify that for the public when we bring it back in two weeks Yes, Kathy um in reading the wording of The other towns um one of the things I thought that was missing from the way ours is worded is that the Permit person getting the permit isn't the person walking around with the open containers So there's an activity that's getting a permit an event is getting a permit So something needs to be a permit has been obtained Obtained for an event So it doesn't read as the as clearly As some of the others and I just thought we should make it clear that we're talking about the permit Isn't that I personally go and get a permit so I can carry around an open container So a permit for an activity a permanent for An entity, you know, there's some larger group getting the permit So I don't have specific language because the north Hampton words are differently than the others do um Evan I'm on so I'm looking at the three examples that I provided of Hadley south Hadley in north Hampton And I'm not following where you see Uh, I mean so what's being proposed is literally identical to Hadley except for swapping out a select board and uh board of licensed commissioners and pretty similar to the other two So I'm not I'm not quite sure where you you're seeing that difference If you could just point me to that place Kathy I'm trying to look through it to find out where but it was what was bothering me about our language So I thought I saw in one of the others that an entity had received the permit A town owned, you know, so for an event so maybe it's Oh here I think the south Hadley's one is that the two preceding sections shall not apply to an activity Which has been duly authorized by the select board. So that was where I saw the notion that, you know, we're having a Town fair we're having something so it was in the south Hadley the two preceding sections won't apply If there's an activity that has received the permit So that's you know, so I'm not sure that's the perfect wording But I was looking for that the permit is being To the uh farmers market to the beer fair the whatever the thing rather than two individuals So as I said, I don't I just saw I liked the wording of The others won't apply unless an activity has been approved So it's not a it's not related to the person. It's related to the group The way I read the south Hadley Maybe Joe So north hampton and Hadley's Don't relate to groups at all because in theory A person Could get a permit. It doesn't have to be a group It doesn't have to be associated with an event if you read Hadley's if you had Hadley's Bylaw nearly tracks the one we have right now, but it just its clauses unless a permit therefore has been Has previously been secured from the select board It's the consumption of any alcoholic beverage blah blah blah shall not be permitted on any town home It's not talking about so that that's a person unless a permit has been obtained north hamptons No person shall consume You know or other container Unless application has been approved by the license commission and a license has been listed for the sale and service of alcohol So it's not Specifying in either of those that it has to be an event. So I'm not sure it's only south Hadley Yeah, so I don't think it's necessary because then it would limit Not that I'm saying it's logical to give a permit to a single person, but Maybe there's a circumstance that You could I don't know Evan Yeah, I guess so I you know I did somewhat intentionally write this to provide some flexibility to the board of license commissioner So in theory Right under under this with no regulation, right? I could say I am going to have a family reunion on the comment and I would like the ability to have wine and I am an Individual who is applying so it's not an organization. It's sort of an activity. But how do we define that? But I would defer to the regulations by the board of license commissioners to define who is eligible To apply for a permit and I think they're really the better body From a licensing and permitting perspective to think about Who who or what should be eligible? My goal here was to provide them with flexibility to to promulgate those regulations further discussion This is a first reading. I want to just note that it has been posted um as a proposed bylaw amendment and The that requires two readings. We will not vote on this again. We'll not vote on this until march 9th Are there further? Yes questions I do agree that the board of license Would be able to do this, but I would just like to add I'd like a time limit to be specified So that some group that got a permit for something or other doesn't say well, I have a permit I I'm only supporting this in terms of time limited Group sponsored activities, which relate to the town of good really So I just think I think it needs to be a little bit more precise than it is right now Again that is the I believe the consensus among some people is that The precision is in the way The board of license commissioners Then applies the law It isn't Trying to then accommodate every possible Way in which this law could be used or frankly misused Um, but the board of license commissioners just as they do with our Restaurant licenses, etc apply the law instead of Writing into the law then that becomes part of the regulation Is that Well, I agree with that in in general what what dorthy said is, you know, if there's a group event it's happening on tuesday night or for two nights And it's gone and gotten a permit it's a limited it's been described I think giving some guidance On why we're opening up this possibility is useful. Um, even if you know, I think of The congressional legislation there's legislative intent. What did we think was going to happen with this bylaw and then Our permitting authority the licensure can say, okay, they they didn't mean you know, like Three people over here and four people coming for permits They meant a larger group activity was so we should be writing something more here And as I said, I didn't come up with exactly the language to have that sense that this isn't going to be All the time it's going to be sometimes for some kinds of because otherwise You could have it be applied discriminatorily, but you know for your party. Yes or for another party. No Okay, kathy. I'm gonna call on your Referring to federal law. There's law There's the congressional record which reports how the law was spoken about at the time it was passed But that is not part of the law It is just part of the record and then it goes to a body who sets up the regulations And that is how federal and state processes work with regard to laws and regulations So laws are Broad often and then it is through the regulations for which often at least at the federal and state level There are then hearings on those regulations before they are finally promulgated Little history lesson civics lesson. Sorry Andy So I was thinking about this I I do support the Proposed bylaw is presently worded, but I did think about it some because There's one additional thing that it opens up and that's the possibility that the Sort of licensed commissioners could decide to set up a process that allows family picnics Or other events of that nature at the pavilion say at Mill River to Have beer for their Family or whatever event it may be the reason I Picking that out is because probably the most Significant incident that I can remember on the select board Mr. Zomac would probably probably shuddering to think because he knows where I'm going with this That there was a family picnic where people illegally brought in alcohol And it caused a tremendous amount of damage to the Area around the pavilion and Caused a lot of work for a lot of people Including mr. Zomac the next morning to get the park back into shape to use I do think that when I said I supported it is because I Um count on our board of licensed commissioners if they go that route to appropriately regulate and One of the other difficulties was is that there was very little information even available to hold accountable to people who had Sponsored that picnic. So I I tend to believe that even with that one little bit of a concern That an appropriate board of licensed regulation process Will address the issues that were concerned Is there any other council discussion we do have this labeled as an item for public comment? Is there anybody in the public who would like to speak to this particular bylaw? Okay Then any further discussion with the council again remembering we're not voting tonight We are voting Two weeks from now Alyssa, I'm just going to say quickly even though I know I'm going to get outvoted two weeks from now I'm not going to vote for it for the fact that it's not limited to the three downtown areas That I think we could clearly delineate within the bylaw as a start and when that worked out super well And everybody saw how the regulations were working and how they were making decisions as to who qualified and who didn't qualify Then we could certainly revisit it and open it up to the rest of the parks But I see no reason why to open it up to everything at this point So that's simply my while while I why I will vote Okay Any further discussion? okay, then we're going to move on to The zala property, which is um an item under chapter 61 a right of first refusal In your packets You have the following documents relative to this item on the agenda One is the notice of intent to convert to other uses. It was dated november 6th 2019 The zala realty trust is selling and in fact has sold the property to sunderlin road north llc For $400,000 And with an intent to develop the land The notice triggered because of it being 61 a it triggered the town's rate of first refusal and that Has been a topic of discussion In Of the council memos for from the conservation commission and planning board recommend that the town council not exercise the rate of first refusal Uh, there are two documents from kp law which describe it Have been also presented to you as discussed at our last meeting the council's options are To either exercise our rate of first refusal And that moves forward to step into the purchase and sale agreement The second option is to not exercise the right to first refusal and vote not to buy the land Or frankly the option that we're recommending is that we take no action The um new owner has paid five years back taxes on the property. Is there any for the discussion? Mandy joe We have the memos from the planning board and the conservation commission Can we just get a verbal? Report from the town manager on the manager's recommendation. Yes. Thank you. Yes so These the planning board and the conservation commission has reviewed this We don't the assistant town manager and I do not recommend that the town council take any action. This will this will The option to purchase it will expire next week The owner is not seeking us as not asking the council to take any action. So we recommend that you take no action tonight Any further questions or discussion? Okay, then we're going to move on um the next item is um, the product of of Consultation with previous select board members both of whom are still on who are now on the council And also looking at the charter as well as talking with the chair of the school committee That item particularly relates to how do we go about replacing? somebody an elected person Thank you An elected person who resigns and in this case it is Eric Nakajima. He's resigned to take a job in Boston Which does not allow him to be here enough to Perform the duties of being on the school committee so The cover memo basically outlines what's in the memo The places we need to focus on today is on the timeline on the proposed draft and then Important to you to us so that we can move forward Consistent with the process outlined in the charter. We do need to focus on the announcement Um, the other two we can bring back for further discussion Uh, but let's just begin with the timeline and let me just say that I found out late this afternoon That one of the school committee members cannot be here on the 14th So, um, we are going to have to think about how we deal with that piece They also are not able based on where they are going to participate remotely So Um, are there other questions? Our discussion just on the timeline Yes, Dorothy. Oh, it looked pretty organized to me So I guess the one question is Will the public have a chance to respond and descend in their Letters of intent The public or the candidates the dates the candidates definitely in fact, they will not be considered candidates unless they do file a statement of interest Do they have time to do it? Oh, they have plenty of time. We have to post this notice for 21 days In fact, given this timeline, we're we're posting it for almost a full 40 days We're trying to give people as much possible time as necessary. However, candidates need to have Their statements in by the end of march, but again, that still gives them 29 days to respond Other questions about the timeline Alyssa, I just want to emphasize It's unfortunate that you found out today about the school committee member who can't make it because We're obviously already outnumbering them significantly under the old Form of government. It was five to four or five to five as the case may be and now it's 13 to four So I do think that's unfortunate But I do think it's really important to have this meeting on a Tuesday night because I know a lot of people Who would say I can do this but I can't serve on planning board because I can't do Wednesdays Or I can do school committee on Tuesdays, which is not every Tuesday just like council's not every Monday But I think it's a mistake to try and do it on a night. That's not a regular school committee night I'm also well aware of the holidays. We're trying to work around the we've got pass over. We've got school break week There's a ton of things that we're trying to accomplish here So not easy, but I would push us if at all possible to find another Tuesday I just don't know what Tuesday that would be the most logical Tuesday night is to move it forward to April 7th which is The day after our council meeting and it's not the wrong pass over date That is actually not pass over begins the next night at sundown Andy Just so you know, I will not be available on the 7th, but There's always going to be somebody Evan, are you also shaking your head? You're not available on the 7th Because I was under the impression this was on the 14th. I have scheduled something else for the 7th Then perhaps I could get out of but currently unavailable. I'm in the same boat by the way Yes Mandy joe I wonder if we could push it back a week instead of forward a week. I don't know whether that's possible. I know that goes a Longer than the 45 days, but with the wording of the charter It might be something worth asking the town attorney If it's within 45 days of said vacancy occurring, the president of the town council shall call a special meeting Does calling it meaning Me noticing it such that we could maybe go to the 21st if that is school vacation week Which is which is horrible for a school committee, right? Um, but but I wonder if there's some way we can figure out Something like that. Well, I know I wouldn't advocate leaving this position open Longer than we need to simply because the school committee is down one person, but And and I have to be honest. I'm actually when I found this out. I asked The chair of the school committee to pull the member to find out What their availability was during the week before and the week of and I said at least as at the moment I have not heard back Well, the date that we had originally identified it was the 14th of april, which is a tuesday We were going to meet in this room at six o'clock uh, the date the Another date would be to move it forward one week, which would be the seventh which is the day after our council meeting and um Again, it would be a six o'clock in this room The following tuesday, which is the 21st is school vacation week And so that would mean we would go all the way to the 28th. I believe Mr. Valkerman that Mandy joe has Interpreted the language of the charter correctly as long as we post a meeting within 45 days Yeah, I I'd like to look at that language again, but I think that's true I will also say that the school committee members the remaining members would Probably not like to go as far as the 28th of april Yeah Yes I just want to say I agree with asking because it was always our impression in the past on this sort of thing That it meant that you had to call the meeting not that the meeting had to take place Within that right of time despite what the newspaper wrote today. It's not the way we've ever interpreted it in the past So for the purposes of the public and the council at this point, don't focus on that date We will be polling you and finding a better date That can include the maximum number of school committees available school school committee members available Okay, anything else about the calendar? Okay, then uh, the next is uh Really drafted Starting with what was the select board policy. I did not call it a policy to me. It's a process and Meaning it has the option of having some changes over time as long as you're consistent with the charter It's very extensive, but tries to provide some levels of flexibility But on the other hand has to follow the charter and um, I don't feel like we have to adopt this tonight It's probably uh, since you didn't get it until yesterday, I believe Uh, and I apologize for that but I've been this has been my homework for the whole last week and a half Is getting this policy ready? Um, so what I do want to focus on however, and it does relate to the policy Is the announcement because eric's resignation? Is effective march 1st the first um work day is march 2nd And so therefore that is the first day that we would publish The announcement and again, we want to give people maximum time to respond Yes, uh, it said that the candidate has to be a voter of the town Um, could that mean if they in fact weren't registered or hadn't voted that if they go to the town clerk and register that satisfies the requirement Yes Meaning they just turned 18 and now they can register We hope they've been registered before um Other questions about the announcement Yes, vandy joe um, we're talking about appendix c Is that what we're talking about the draft announcement? Yes um If we have some wording changes that don't really affect that can we just send them to you? Yes Or if we have you know Yes, wording changes that kind of thing Um, I know one of the questions that has arisen and continues to swirl around Is the which which it did with ochre as well in the last round of interviews? And that is the idea of publishing the questions in advance So that the candidates know what the questions will be which You know, it gives them the advantage, but at the same time it doesn't get Those people who are interviewing the candidates the opportunity to see a spontaneous result So, um on the other hand, we can't easily develop a set of questions And not have them be public. There's no way to do that further questions on the announcement And then I just want to point out that the other attachments which were generously provided to me by Alyssa and also Angela mills and so forth were the ability for us to look at what had been done in the past, which was really helpful And I want to thank all of the people who took the opportunity to weigh in on this and now you all have that opportunity. So, okay any further discussion Then we're not going to take a motion on The announcement, but I do want to get a sense that it's okay for us to Receive input and then for us to post the announcement before the next council meeting Yes, Alyssa to make a motion to it. It is probably then a substantive Comment as opposed to a wording comment, which is associated with resumes We had this conversation at ochre this morning And I firmly believe that asking for resumes or even accepting resumes as an option Is a classist thing to do that has nothing to do with the performance of the grammar school committee member So I think it should be clear that we resume as I had edited at one point Resumes will not be accepted Now people can write whatever they want in their one page thing if they think talking about their degree from Tufts is really important That's great. They can do that in their one page thing and they can do it during their answers to their questions But I think it is completely Inappropriate to accept to them associated with school committee application Is there any further comment on that particular issue? Mandy Joe, I would support that change Okay All right, so I will integrate that into both the announcement and the process Okay Any further discussion Points you want to make Going once going twice moving on Okay, um The next one is the proposed committee For council liaisons and I believe evan that You were back to you Yes, and of course, I don't have it open in front of me. So I'm going to try and do that quickly So you have had since the january 6th meeting A report from ochre that recommended council liaisons To nine different multiple member bodies of the town That was the project of an ochre discussion At our last meeting We had a very brief conversation about it and the president directed anyone who had comments or feedback on those To provide them to me as the chair to take to ochre We did get comments from one counselor I do not have a written report or response for you because we discussed them this morning And I did not have time to write one. Um, but I will tell them to you now Because one did result in a substantive change. And so one of the comments Was that because of the close working relationship that crc has with the zoning subcommittee Because at this time there's the potential of a crc representative to the zoning subcommittee There was a thought that assigning both a liaison and a crc representative would be duplicative There was then the thought that we could count this the rc representative as a liaison But we worked very hard to construct fairly restrictive liaison rules And there was a feeling that Calling the representative a liaison Would do one of two things either bind that representative to the liaison rules, which would be very restrictive and Not really fulfill what I think the role is of that crc liaison crc representative. Um, or Put us in a situation where we're saying well for this one special liaison They don't have to abide by the rules which also made us uncomfortable. Um, and so This morning ochre voted 401 to actually rescind its recommendation of a liaison to the zoning subcommittee of the planning board So you have in front of you And on the motion sheet nine different Multiple member bodies that ochre has recommended a liaison to But ochre is actually rescinding its recommendation for that final liaison of the zoning subcommittee of the planning board Because of the relationship between crc and the zoning subcommittee The second substantive comment had to do with inclusion of A few committees that did not necessarily meet the criteria for liaisons the disability access advisory committee The council on aging and also the lsse commission ochre Discussed and so there was a recommendation to also rescind that recommendation ochre discussed that and Respectfully disagreed with the commenter There was a feeling That those are committees that have often been siloed. There was a feeling that as we are facing Some fairly substantial capital projects and also some potential downtown investments and redevelopment in our town These are communities that we really need to keep in mind and we felt as though recently We've been having conversations where at one point we'll go What is the disability access advisory committee say about this and we'll go ah, we don't know if they've discussed it And we there's a feeling that at least in this moment in Amherst It would be useful to have a conduitive information between those committees And the council and so ochre is maintaining its recommendation for liaisons to those And so the motion is in tact except striking that last bullet for the zoning subcommittee of the planning board Would you therefore tell us which committees are now on the table for liaisons? Certainly will They are the affordable housing trust the board of health the board of licensed commissioners the community preservation act committee The council on aging the disability access advisory committee the lsse commission and the transportation advisory committee okay discussion Andy Just two quick things one is is that i'm assuming that If in a future date we um think that a few that an additional committee Should be considered it can be added but that What we're trying to do right now is to get a baseline start And i'm perfectly comfortable with the recommendation and the other thing in relation to what you just Evan just reported Having been a select board liaison to both the disability access advisory committee and the lsse commission I um wholly support those That recommendation and we'll only speak to it further at best Yeah, yes evan Yeah, thank you for bringing that first part up because I actually forgot another part of focus discussion Apologies to my ochre friends Which was there was a comment about annually reviewing which committees get liaisons with the Suggestion that maybe we'll want to add more. Maybe we'll realize we don't need one And so ochre also voted and I don't have the exact motion language in front of me and it was somewhat complicated motion language But basically to amend town council rules of Requesting that gol look at town council rules of procedure 10.8 k which says The town council shall maintain a priority list of bodies most likely to propose measures to the council and to amend that rule to indicate that The town council will Annually review a priority list Of committees that should have liaisons to get at the fact that every year We should be looking at not only liaison assignments which happen on an annual Business basis, but also whether or not we want to keep having the same committees have liaisons Because different needs needs might change over time Would you as chair of ochre, please put that in the form of an email and we will I will then send it on to gol Yes, thank you other discussion pat I support these committees. So it's not really a discussion question When are we actually going to put this into effect? It's been over a year. We've been talking about liaisons for a long time So I'd like to know when it's going to happen One of the reasons why I would like this settled tonight Is because along with the next discussion, which is the standing committees Is to do the poll so that at the next meeting we You hear the assignments for the standing committees and you vote on the assignments for liaisons Okay, yes, Dorothy Evan referred to this, but briefly but just I think for the people Who are watching The reason these committees were chosen was very I think well delineated regularly submit proposed policies and bylaws to the town council promulgate regulations that have significant impacts on town residents or businesses And distribute funds sourced from local taxes And I think it seemed to be pretty well done Okay, any yes bandit job So I am not going to support this motion And it's not because I don't completely agree with the committee list as it stands or anything like that It is because I have come to the conclusion that Adding more work on to counselors, even if it's only eight counselors is not something at this point I can support. Um, I know it's a minimal amount of work But we have been for the last year saying this is a large job and Continually saying we need to find a way to figure out How to lessen the amount of work we are spending and the amount of hours we are spending on a weekly basis on council stuff And I know we've crafted the liaison rule so that people don't have to go to meetings and all but it still adds Work to us And I think there might be other ways we can get the information we need from certain committees without Putting extra work on counselors Whether that be tasking the staff liaison through the town manager With reporting to the council Monthly or tasking the committee itself with a report to the council monthly or bimonthly or Something else that doesn't actually add work to our Already Amount of works that we would like to see lessened so for those reasons I can't support actually creating any committees for liaisons at this time Kathy um I think i'm going to make a similar comment although it's not quite as sweeping If some of these we want to know what's happening within that committee if we Set up space on our council committees And I wouldn't make it monthly or even bimonthly, you know quarterly whatever is the right time to invite The chair of that committee to come in and say the key things they're looking at and that are in front of them We would both get a better sense of What the committee is currently wrestling with or going to be wrestling with And better because it wouldn't be filtered through a counselor Summarizing their view from either reading minutes And if you I will tell you if you try to read minutes on some of these committees They don't always exist or you know Some of our own committees when I tried to read them, but you know because there's a delay There's not that there are no minutes so Not attending the meetings regularly probably won't give you as good a sense If you just try to read minutes And most of them aren't Like the planning board televised so that you can't simply go and look at amherst media and see what happened during the You know, that's an easier one to summarize so My question would be if we come up with a list of eight And then you ask who among us might want to do Be a liaison and you get Three or four people wanting to be a liaison with anything um Do we Just proceed with that, you know, so this would be a priority list and you know We we actually talked about this a fairly long time in the ad hoc rules committee way back when And came with a tentative list in last july So I have a question of if we have eight And there are four of us that want to be liaisons to a few of these Um, do we just say the other four just don't have liaisons because I certainly don't think we should require Someone to be a liaison to something that they're not volunteering for so that would be my question We can come up with a priority list, but we might not fill all the slots Thoughts on that George, I'm sorry. I didn't see your hand. I thought that One of the attractions for me of this is that I hear what man is saying and I think we all Share that concern but One of the attractions of this whole idea of liaisons Which by the way, we've been working on it now for quite some time. So just to jettison it causes me deep pain, but If we do it, we do it but is to get us out of our silos and also to You know at some level whether it's I assume there'll be at least some human contact I understand that people won't be going to meetings all the time and they shouldn't be But hopefully there'll be some human contact between a member of the council and some of these Multiple member bodies and I think that's important that that that that people know that that we're out there and we're and I think it's also important that we have we get out of our own silos a little bit So yes, it's going to be more work And everyone will have to make up their own minds as to how much they can give to it I thought the other idea was that if we do have eight people who are willing to do this We all know who they are and if you have a question about Something that's going on with the board of health or with LSE or the council on aging You can go to that counselor and say, you know, what's happening? So that's a resource for us as a as a group And I think it's also valuable for us to to get outside of our silos a little bit And I think it's also valuable for some of these bodies to to interact with counselors at at least at a very basic level So I hear Andy's hear man is concerned But I think this is one where it's worth the extra effort additional comments Evan so I guess it's actually a question for the council Because I actually share Mandy's concern and have actually been pretty forward about the fact that I do not want to be a liaison For that very reason And I'm glad that we have fewer liaison positions than Counselor so there isn't a feeling of obligation within the council But I think that Kathy brought up a really good point Which is if four people come forward and say we want to be liaisons Do we leave four committees without liaisons? And I think that that might be a question for whatever body that gets this gets referred to whether that's if this passes OCA or But a question I am curious for the council because OCA sort of talked about this but didn't make any recommendation Which was would it be permissible if someone wanted to be a liaison to multiple bodies? Maybe no one wants to but if someone here is particularly masochistic, maybe they do and so But is that something just to give guidance given that it is likely to come back to a committee on the which I serve I am curious what the feeling of the council is Alyssa so I guess I have two questions one is I don't know why it's going back to a committee unless you're talking about to actually assign appointments which Yeah, I mean that is a a thing the committee could do which Despite many other comments I've made I would have thought would be just as easy to have the president do while they're assigning other appointments But whatever that being that being separate because we did talk about that extensively in the past as well I do think it's fine if only four people want to do it And I think it's fine if two of them want to go to three different committees I think that's totally fine and we reevaluate at the end of the year We're already a third of the way through the year and as people realize I don't want to do this anymore Or it's not working out because I can never find out what's happening from that committee And then maybe it will become obvious that certain things of a council committee is a better connection than a liaison But I think we start out. We try it. We see who wants to do it It's fine if not everybody wants to do it It's fine if somebody wants to be a masochist because that's the kind of time they have on their hands And then we reevaluate and we just keep a list somewhere that shows as george indicated Who's assigned to what so that we have it as a resource so that our council committees have it as a resource And then we we decided at the end of the year and that was a bad idea Andy Joe was so right And Kathy was so right and that'll be fine But um, I say we give it a shot and get going and see what happens Sarah I'd just like to say from someone who served um on agcom and then had some from the select board liaison I think that it did give me the feeling that select board did there was somebody from the select board That listened to what we were doing who had a sense of what was important to us And I I feel like it made me our committee feel more heard than when something came up in select board They had a more of a knowledge deeper knowledge of what we were doing and that was very helpful to us So I think what george is saying about there being that that human touch I think it deepens a lot of what happens here and with another board. So I would say let's give it a try Oh I want to just say thank you Sarah for bringing that up because I was fortunate as the chair of the dpw fire station advisory committee to have an excellent liaison who's sitting next to me and when it came time to get ready for a town meeting I I couldn't have done it without That additional advice on how to steer through town meeting and I don't think steering through the council Is quite as challenging, but it has its moments. So I want if for those people and as I will poll I will take into consideration if people want to be two or three liaisons, that's great And let me just go on to say I think we also have to put on the lens of the public and the committees and this is a way of us saying we care So without any further conversation Oh So I moved to designate the following town committees for town council liaisons affordable housing trust board of health board of licensed commissioners community preservation act committee council on aging disability access advisory committee lsse commission transportation advisory committee Is there a second second any further discussion? All those in favor say aye and raise your hand opposed Ubsain so it was 10 1 2 Okay, thank you Um Now we're going to move on to the reorganization of standing committees And I believe george this is Yes, it is You're having your packet and I know you've already carefully. Um the memo from gel from the chair That lays out the proposal Which I don't think should come as too much of a surprise to most of you though There is an added wrinkle and then the Rationale briefly and then looking at some of the particulars of the proposal in greater detail I'm just going to perhaps for the sake of the public Just briefly sketch what we are proposing and then I think at that point maybe we should just turn to general discussion Actually one of first of all the history of this we've been this committee has been working on this since our november 20 meeting And so we've had a lot of time to Discuss that I'd like to express particular. Thanks to evan who I think has done extraordinary work All my committee members have been great, but I want to just make a special Acknowledgement of his contribution, but we as a committee have been working on this now since november 20th We've gotten counselor feedback from 11. I believe of the 13 counselors and we've gone through all the comments carefully And I think in some cases we've tried to incorporate them into the final proposal You've already done as a body one of the things that we recommended And I think that was pretty much a no-brainer Which was to disband the audit committee and move its duties to finance And we did that at the january 27 meeting So that right away Knocks out three committee Appointments What we're recommending now is that we create a new standing committee called town services and outreach abbreviated tso And that will absorb some of crc's current responsibilities as well as oca's outreach responsibilities We're secondly Recommending that we just redistribute the appointments function of oca among the three standing committees crc Tso and gel With the reallocation of planning board and zoning board of appeals appointments delayed until july 1 2020 We'll talk about that in just a moment and finally related to that We are recommending that we keep oca in existence until june 30 2020 With the sole remaining function being to make appointments to the planning board and the zoning board of appeals And to finalize the process for those appointments as of july 1 2020 the appointments function for planning board and cpa would be moved to crc And oca would be dissolved The ultimate result of that just ensure numbers would be reduced the number of appointments from 23 to 20 It's not a huge decline, but it is something You have the revised charges in your packet for oca gel and crc As well as the proposed tso charge And Again just briefly the rationale as you can see here is first of all to make this body more efficient Um try to even out as much as possible to workload among committees Provide some greater clarity as to where council referrals might go Um give more counselors an opportunity to engage in substantive issues And reduce if possible the number of counselors serving on council committees And we feel that this proposal meets those goals This was never undertaken in any way should perform as a comment on any of the standing committees Or any individual or group of individuals it was done precisely for the reasons i've just stated To look at us as a body and see if there's any way we can make ourselves more efficient And try i think in particular one concern was to see if we could lessen the what seemed to be an unsustainable workload on crc So that was the the rationale reason we we began this and you now have the the proposed product in front of you I think the rest of it is is gets into the details. So maybe at this point We can turn to just so that suggests that we take each committee separately not in a motion but in a discussion way And that uh, we start with crc Are there discussion points about crc at this time? Dorothy, um, I don't understand why I guess u-tech the relationship between the town and the university is In um tso I could see it being divided, but i mean the crc Focus on broader more long-range issues planning zoning land use housing Homelessness review a master plan economic development Some of the interactions with the university just go in that area So that that's my um major comment on this Today anyway, are there other comments on crc? Yes, darcy Just looking at the charge, um proposed charge. It seems like the Uh the purpose seems to um List the areas that would be covered and then the charge also lists the areas that Where the this committee would make review and make recommendations And they don't really match up um, so i'm wondering how that happened because it it really seems like The purpose should mirror The areas listed below and vice versa. So for example um Sustainability was added um Community sustainability initiatives. Well, that's good. That's great. Um So why isn't it listed above and Some of them are listed above and some of them are not so i'm just saying it should be more consistent There's no reason why The lists are different So your comment is not one of Questioning what its responsibilities are but one of Parallelism in the actual description. Yes, that is exactly right. I'm looking to see I mean if we need to tinker that's one thing if we need to go back to the drawing board That is A whole separate issue Okay, are there other Other questions or comments about crc Yes, sarah so, um, I I think I was one of the people who originally said because of The fact that crc deals so heavily really with the planning board and and zoning board of appeals That having them be the ones to look at appointments made sense to me In thinking about it today because we're going back to like oka is trying to figure out zba One part of the process is that whoever is the chair needs to contact every single person who has applied And then once they've contacted them they need to find a time when everybody can meet altogether at one specific time I'm just thinking about and I asked evan to maybe keep track of how many hours it takes And i'm not saying that I don't think that this should be in crc But I think when we review things again in a year, I would like to review this crc is such a busy Body that does a lot of really critical thinking How how did this once you've done it has this added way too much because one of the goals Was to try to make sure there's less of a workload for counselors And i'm wondering if maybe it will end up being like a top everything for people who are on crc And it may not but I just think that that's something I would want to bring up as a reservation and then In another year when we review we can say this was something's probably I was thinking about did that happen or not? all right Other comments questions Okay, then let's move on to gol I'm sorry kathy. Yes I was That's quite all right. Go ahead. I'm patient kathy I I was actually comparing Old gol to new gol um because there's an expansion of responsibilities here and some subtle rewarding Most of which I think reads all right, but I want to just draw attention to two Um one is on liaisons We just went through are there liaisons or not? I don't think a subcommittee of the council Should figure out which council members go on which committee for liaison I think if we have more than one person wanting something We should just have a full committee discussion and try to sort it out because you run a real risk um Most favored nations kind of treatment without meaning to you know, I mean it's just they're only 13 of us So telling five of us will figure out how to sort out the others. So I don't think council Recommendations even for appointments just do a polling, you know and figure out how many we have for the same And I would say the same for jcpc and budget coordinating group jcpc The last time there were three people who wanted three slots no problem and we actually Wrote it in a rule. It's 10.6 Um in the rules a procedure because we had a bit of a discussion about this that if it was the council appointment We'd have a discussion at the council level. We'd find out who wanted Those positions and then we'd vote on it. Um, so it's not a president So I don't think delegating this committee even for recommendations is a good idea. Um, and I'll One unfortunate experience that someone I know well had at a university Was the um recommendations for salary Increase committee Of professors and somehow the people who are on the committee got more salary increases Than other people who weren't on the committee. So you really wanted to be on that committee But you know, I don't think that would happen, but I just don't think we should put out Put that risk so I would remove those too So I don't see any reason why and I forget where where did the um, who's going to figure out where the finance committee Is that went to tso? Yeah, that's it. It should be in this one. It's here. It's here. It's also and and that one I just like to have a larger discussion about the non-voting members of finance committee, you know on the process of that um It it was an interesting experience and I think it worked out. Well, we have terrific members But you know having some idea of who's coming on a committee Knowing that there's been a discussion from people who are on the committee. So I'm not sure delegating it um This way makes sense and I I don't know whether anyone else on finance wants to chip in you know We had a long discussion and so I don't want to revisit that whether This would be interviews done by the finance committee for example um With in an open way of people who wanted to come on Just to make sure it wasn't The finance chair was the only one I think compared to planning who wasn't invited into an interview You know we've treated other committees But I was particularly wanted to flag um the Appointing council members or making recommendations then the the other so moving away from that issue. Um The earlier language on go well, I thought made it very clear that for the most part When go well was addressing Bylaws and other things it was because they've been referred to go well For reading them carefully now. There's an addition that Actually in authorizes provost revisions of the general bylaws To the committee. It's a new sentence that's been added rather than something's been referred And I think to the extent something about our general bylaws comes up to us as problematic We would refer it and and get advice But I think it should be a full discussion And I don't think we should expand to saying that somehow we're Regularly revisiting all that wording change that was just done in the general bylaws It's an expansion that doesn't seem necessary. So it was an additional Duty put on this committee and my Feeling is you probably have a backlog right now because we referred a bunch of bylaws From the general bylaw revisions to GOL to come back to us on it. These aren't easy You know one was completely eliminated others were reworded wording was added So going back regularly to review the town's bylaws It says propose revisions. Um, so that would mean reading them thinking about them. Should they be reworded differently? So I would remove that expansion So I had those two questions about Referring council appointments to a subcommittee of the council I don't know what I where I actually think non voting members find is and then this expansion of the actual authority of the committee So kathy, I just want to clarify In the charge Under governance and organization It's the second from the last bullet that you're speaking to Make recommendations to the town council regarding appointments by the town council for non voting council liaisons The blah blah that one Yes, exactly. And the Counselors going on to joint capital planning committee counselors going on to the budget coordinating groups So this is where a subcommittee of the counselor Would be reviewing which counselors go where I mean, I don't see why we just wouldn't bring that to the whole council The way we just did with acpc you took you took a poll of who was interested and then we got to see Um, I'd like to treat the conversation if there's any other comment about that particular item Let's have it now. Yes, alissa. Thank you. I was going to ask you to separate those two concepts because absolutely So let's go with the first one. So doing the first one I wonder if the solution to that isn't to To see how the last bullet point in governance and organization says if referred by the council I wonder if we just add if referred by the council to that bullet point Because then it's a home for it if we decide to do it But I like the idea I I prefer what we are doing now in terms of polling with jcpc, etc But if we wanted to refer it to somebody this is the body that would get it rather than having to guess which body should get it So I would I would say that we could change That whole tenor of that by saying if referred by the council And then when it's time to do liaisons we could sit here and say well We have a committee whose charge is if we refer it to them they can decide the liaisons Or do we just want to pull it and do it ourselves And then we have it then we have choices additional Andy Yeah, it's hard for me to make a substantive comment for discussion tonight because I was merely that I had intended when talking with the finance committee and inviting conversation about the Charge for the finance committee that's been proposed and kind of put on hold until we get comments to ask If they have an opinion about What committee should be making the recommendations on non-voting finance committee members So we aren't having that discussion until tomorrow. I really have nothing else to say A digital comment Evan. I'm sorry Darcy I would just say that I agree with Kathy's comments and the Removal of the of the Next to last bullet under governance and organization Because it really feels like it it contradicts Rules that the ad hoc rules committee put Together And and I feel like there's you know, there's a tendency to want to put everything in a committee Uh And each time we do that we kind of carve away The power of the full council to do certain things And this these are areas where we have the ability to Make decisions on the basis of the full council and I wouldn't add the the clause if If referred by the council because that's too Suggestive that we do it that we that we actually do Refer it to a subcommittee because it's an easy thing to do and I would also remove the the Proposed revisions to the general bylaws because again that feels like it's Um Giving too much A way to a committee of the council that is the bailiwick of the full council So we're going to stick with the one about liaisons finance committee jcpc and budget coordinating Any further comment on that? Yes, Evan Yes, so I like a list of suggestion a lot of just adding if referred by the council Because I I do think that the way that we have done bcg and jcpc has worked But there could be a situation where the council A lot of what we're doing is to try to minimize the time we spend in meetings, right? And there could be a situation where there's multiple people going for a limited number of vacancies And we can't figure it out for the council and it might be nice to send it to a committee If we want to but the point of keeping this in there is that not that we will always send something to a committee But we know where things go if we want to and so that's the whole point of a lot of this revision is Everything has a home We don't always necessarily need to send it to a home in the same way that we didn't send say ecacs climate action goals somewhere But knowing that there is a place to go and having that be clear So I think I would support elissa's suggestion of adding if referred But then if we are going to do that I think we actually would want to take out non voting finance committee members and put that as a separate bullet Because I do think that's appropriate in gl it doesn't make sense to go into any other committee And certainly not finance because we don't permit any committee to appoint their own members And so that would not be a referral. That's something that would sit with the body itself dorothy I understand evan's point of view in terms of Efficiency, but I think that some of the things I've been hearing Have to do with perception of fairness And to me it's very important that the council Continue to work with I think a sense of good faith that we've had And perhaps having a count a committee a council committee choose other counselors For other things might cause problems and therefore I would say Maybe the slower way we've been doing it might be better Pat I feel like we're missing something in that we're saying gl would make recommendations to the council those recommendations would be looked at questioned Supported voted against so I don't see how we're not involving the full council um, I also in terms of proposed revisions to general bylaws, but I can wait if you um That's part of our job gl reviews bylaws for clarity consistency and actionability And proposing revisions is exactly what we do and then we bring it back to the council and it's our votes Not gl vote that dominates whether the bylaw gets changed whether the recommendation is accepted So when we bring in trust and all this other stuff There seems to me to be a lack of trusting kind of fear that somehow rather gl is taking power that That it's not doing I'd like to stick to that the first bullet just stay with that and then we'll get to the bylaw one later So make recommendations to the town council regarding appointments by the town council for non voting liaisons And then there has been a suggestion that we move the non voting finance committee members into a separate bullet Counselors to the joint capital planning committee and counselors to the budget coordinating group And then there has been a suggestion if referred by the council Any further discussion on that item? All right, then I would like a motion on that one Do you How do how are we going to sit here and edit these? Mandy joe Great. Thank you It's eight o'clock. We're going to take a break No, let's finish this one. Let's do that Okay I I would like to go to the next one which is the bullet right after make recommendations to the town council And on on appointments for the clerk of the council additional council staff The town manager or interim town manager if referred by the council And this I assume was with the idea that everything should have a home Yes, I'll answer that Because I'm the one that asked that have put in the the draft charge Yes, because at some point these things could happen And if it happens and if the council decides not to create An ad hoc committee It's clear where it goes. Obviously for some of this it might be Most logical to create an ad hoc committee But if this gives a choice then of send it to that committee or create one I thank you for that clarification if it did not say If referred by the council and you did not discuss the issue of ad hoc I would be absolutely opposed to the idea that the council was not selecting our town manager. Thank you Andy Yeah, I was the other thing that I had thought about was Make recommendations for a process As opposed but having been Involved in the recruitment and selection of a town manager It was a long Carefully thought out difficult process and It had to be done Very carefully and correctly in order to Adhere both to I think Amherst and what Amherst is about um Select board as it existed at the time In the law And those are all big pieces as well as What is a count what are common? recruitment methodologies for Just personnel practices there was heavy reliance on Our former personnel director to give us guidance on that too And I I'm a little bit concerned about just saying make recommendations On the appointments that it sounds like They're going to run the whole process and then bring a proposal to hire somebody and I think that it's Far too great and I so I really think it's really about process Initially, then once the process is going It may be an ad hoc committee. It could be a number of different approaches Um but I think it's too broadly worded without qualifications and I think that they're both Important depending depending on the position So is there any other comment on that last bullet make recommendations? Darcy um, I actually hadn't noticed that That it included Appointment of the town manager too That wasn't included in the oka charge Um So I'm not sure why it's included here Are there any other comments? Yes sarah So I just want to make an observation as someone who was on oka and chaired briefly We took a lot of time really thinking about process and and what would be fair And how we could give the rest of the council enough information and Confidence in what we did to be able to make up their minds When we came back with some recommendations something that oka heard Frequently was that yes, you are going through a process and you are making recommendations, but remember Once a name has been put forward Then the rest of the council feels a certain amount of responsibility to not reject that person So once a committee has made a recommendation really they've made it for all of us I don't necessarily think that that's true and I believe what I said was no everybody has to really stand up for Who they thought was right or to bring up questions about what happened with the process But I think as far as trust goes for all of us together I think that we really need to put ourselves in someone else's shoes So if you were a counselor that really did feel like When oka's process went through and then we brought you recommendations many many people were They had a hard time with that and I understand it and I think that all of us need to Really listen when other people say I think g ol is having a lot of power and you know recommendations sometimes make It the rest of us feel like You know, we have to do something I think we really just need to have empathy for each other on that because it isn't something This is what said to me a lot. It's what it's not something personal it's it's just Sometimes all every single one of us wants to feel like, you know, we had some input in something that was really important Further comments on the last event those bullets Alyssa, so did g ol talk about what I believe andy said which was make recommendations to the town council on processes for Appointment for the town Clerk of the town council the town manager, etc I mean, I'd be totally fine with it saying processes for and Although I'm sure that was implied in some people's minds. Was there Something else to that that g ol discussed And um, andy joe So, uh, I'm the one that asked for this bullet points I I asked for it as a point of I didn't think we should leave it out when There's clearly in the charter Appoint the town council has these appointment authorities and if we were distributing appointments Is like maybe we should include all appointments somewhere that doesn't mean it has to go there as I said I think I in proposing this in my mind. It was implied that it would include a process Especially for something like town manager If that one comes up, you know, keep in mind this bullet point has four different positions listed Not just one. It has the clerk of the council It has additional staff as allowed by the charter the town manager and an interim town manager each of which are completely different And might require completely different processes or thought processes One of the other things going through my mind was with the if referred was at least for town manager Um, generally there's like a search committee of some sort that then brings Multiple names as finalists to I think that's how it's happened with the select board The select board ended up with multiple finalists. There was something beforehand and then the select board interviewed I think like three finalists or two finalists and then voted on that I had that kind of in mind when you could say well, maybe g ol's Part of that initial part never thinking that g ol would end up with the one name Recommended to the whole council that was never an intention with this in my mind Uh, Alyssa, so if I could just follow up on that so that's not a search committee It's a screening committee people use that term a lot and that implies we're going out and looking for people We're not it's a screening committee and it was based on a profile that was written And in order to function an executive session, they had to bring forward multiple candidates They couldn't bring forward one and I absolutely disagree that any council committee would serve as that committee I think that they would serve as the committee to recommend how that process would work And then if we said well, you know, you guys are sitting there. Why don't we have you do it? That would be an option, but that would not be an option. I would ever avail myself of so I That's why I'm focused on process and I was very much thinking clerk of the council because I do think There should be a process for that and I do like that it has a home here But it should I I think we've perhaps had played short shrift to that process in the past in terms of our discussion of it And so I'm totally happy to have a committee whose home it is to talk about process But who is not making any of the decisions they could recommend to us that they serve as the screening committee and we could say No, but they could recommend it Kathy I I want to Add to I think what both the ante analysts are saying I I could see If we were hopefully never talking about town manager, I think we'd have A lot of discussion on what the process would be and it could be Any kind of combination of chairs of different committees of bringing in people So I don't think again, this is I wouldn't even think of delegating this to a committee off the bat But I'd be totally comfortable with the notion of come up with a process come up with option a b or c You know a way of proceeding here to help us get started with it Um, I I'm going to step out on my role as president and just say I just am so uncomfortable seeing this with any committee It is not the job of committee. It is the job of the council And I do not Feel that even if referred I think the immediate thing we would do at least in the case of a town manager or needing an interim town manager is create A committee of the council That may not be any one committee and just move on from there. I this is This is probably the most important job the council ever does and that's higher. It's it's executive So that's maybe I should step away, but I I just feel very strongly on that particular one I just want to add that this is one of these things that I Hope the town never confronts. We did have to go through the process of picking an interim town manager and that was also a difficult process and we you know it was Without going into great detail one that involved its own process its own In a way You know assistance And it was not one that could be done easily either. It was something that Had to be given appropriate thought because it was important that the town be Run well and be run in a manner that could be then handed off to the person who we would ultimately hire for the permanent job And So I don't want to give short shrift to the interim just because I've had the experience Let's move on to the one last one on this one and then we'll Take a break Okay, the last one is propose Revisions to general bylaws to improve clarity consistency and actionability Kathy you spoke to this first. Could you just give us briefly Your point The first bullet I just before that one I completely agree with that anything That is before us for potential action gets refued for this So to the extent the second bullet is needed. I would say upon referral by the council review You know because I I think we shouldn't So the the issue is if something comes up that there's a problem with the way that one of our bylaws has written It should be brought to our attention rather than we shouldn't be just going and looking for it So I I like the idea that there's a home for that it's come Come up to us and so I think that's already covered in the first bullet though. So I'm not sure I'm Proposing an alternative to the second but Because we just had this bylaw review committee that operated all year long rewording and consistency and cleaning them up and So I think if there's a problem with them It should be brought back to us and then we should we understand it and refer it with some guidance not just Go reopen them again. So that that was my question about the second bullet. I have no problem with the first So the point is that it's only a referred but in fact it's probably covered in the first bullet I think yes, you know, I think that it's brought up in some way to our attention that there's a problem with x y or z would And we'd like to change it or we'd like to fix it. Yeah, okay, Evan So it's not covered in the first bullet and this bullet is needed actually And it's not an expansion of power. So I want to first clarify what I think is a misunderstanding I think you're interpreting this bullet to mean that GOL is going to become round three of the bylaw review committee, which I don't think anyone on GOL wants to be and I don't think that's anyone's intention but When we finally voted on those bylaws on the revised general bylaws We referred the future considerations document to go well and we said deal with this Because there were a number of things in there that were Substantive beyond the bylaw review committee But really had to do with the action ability or the clarity or the consistency between bylaws of a document And your ask of by law of of GOL was to Deal with that document which would involve proposing revisions GOL can't actually do that under its charge right now What was referred to GOL was proposed revisions to these bylaws that have been identified Um, but we actually can't do that because actually what we write we do right now under that first bullet Is when something's proposed Is we look and we tell you whether or not it's clear consistent and actionable But we cannot proactively come to the council and say about a wage theft by a law for example Oh, we want to revise it in this way, right? We don't have the ability to propose revisions. And so Um, this is necessary for us to actually be able to do what you asked us to do last meeting And I don't think it's an expansion of power Because you've already asked us to do this right and so this is just giving us the ability whether or not we add If referred, I think that's fine. I think that we we could do that Um, I don't think that it's necessary because I think there's a chance that in our course of work We may discover a bylaw Um, you know, let's say we're considering an existing bylaw and it's related to another one We might consider we might discover one and say, oh, you know, that's kind of wonky right there We should recommend a proposal and it's a little inefficient to have to come and say We found this minor thing. It needs to be changed But we can't propose revisions to it until you tell us to propose revisions to it But we can't actually do what you've asked us to do without this Lynn, I just want to respond because my understanding of what we referred to go well We were really specific. There were three or four bylaws As well as the four bylaws The four bylaws and the future considerations future consideration, right? Okay. Okay, but the others were very specific. Yes. Yeah, okay Mandy joe Also, I agree with everything Evan said. I also want to point out sometimes there's a change in law That might require us to change our bylaws because our bylaws are no longer actionable because they now violate mass general law It's more efficient for the town manager through kp law to say hey gol You're gonna have to look at this because the law changed then for him to come to the council and say You need to refer and do that We're trying to shorten these meetings and be a little more efficient when it's something obvious because a law changed It and mass general law changed and we have to reflect that change in our bylaws It's it doesn't give more power to gol But it makes the council more efficient to be able to just Get it there to start with without putting it on our agenda first for that referral Um, I also want to speak to this particular thing because I think that Getting the process for our zoning bylaws and our general bylaws down And understanding that is a challenge. Uh, it is something that I know that Mandy joe and gol have been working on Uh, I'm sorry and crc. Thank you on zoning But then in addition to that Mandy joe's taken on the general bylaw schematic Uh, and which I asked her to do and will come forth to the council And one of the things as I looked at the initial drafts was okay. How can we cut some steps out here? And also at what point does it go to legal counsel and what point doesn't it go to legal counsel? So That's a future discussion But the issue of having a legislative If you will standing committee that looks at legislation is kind of a standard practice for a town council And um, this is what that last bylaw or that last bullet is about Any further questions or discussion on that one? Do you want to take a break and then come back on this? Yeah All right, let's look at tso and then I guess we're Going to book on it. Okay, then we'll take a break tsl This is a new committee However, I wanted to point out that um 15 months ago god forbid um This is one of the types of committees I wrestled with when I started looking around and saying what two towns and cities have So it's not Uh a new subject Yes, sarah So in looking at this charge, I actually really feel like Of all of these things, I guess you could say there's two Maybe three things on here that are actually actionable Charges that a committee could Do Which would be to review and make recommendations to the town council appointments of department heads and multi-member bodies Which right now would definitely wouldn't take a lot of time because okah has made Already been talking with a town manager a forum in which to follow and also information So that it's basically then we just say yes, you did You did a great job. No problem. So there's not a lot of discussion there And then of course we are the keeper of the public way So we could review would make recommendations to town council and measures related to the public way And then the only other one that I can really think that we could do is if we had if this Committee or some committee had a relationship with say utac, but I I don't know Town I don't see unless five members of this committee were actually meeting like town gown style With the colleges that we really had Any real say in in that When it comes to outreach and communication Town council doesn't have that role. I mean okah We even had a subcommittee to make sure we could get up and running on this and um the Community participation officers told us that they had their job And they they really did not need us it would muddy the waters and there wasn't a relationship for us to have with them RAC said we work for the town manager We don't we don't do things the way you do and we're not related to you in any way Our subcommittee then tried to think of how we could help all of the counselors work together and we came up with that George and and Darcy and I you know came up with the whole thing that we sent out to you the poll and What are you doing and and you know, how could we make this go smoother and how could we all tell each other like What we do so that we could make our communications better I will even tell you that I didn't fill out the poll until my arm got twisted behind my back I just I do not think that that any committee I do not think town council has anything to do with outreach and community relations in this sense Um, and then I'm confused about some of the things to review and make recommendations to the town council and measures that may affect the provision of services to the community by a town department And then advise the town council and matters related to the operation of town government We are legislative. We are not executive We have we cannot say anything to staff nor could we make really Any strong recommendations to staff to do this or that the only way that I can see that this would work Is if this particular committee had you know An open line of communication to the department heads and to the town manager And then perhaps if they had if you know people came and brought us things that they really Wanted to see done Then we could make a priority list and then I would think that the only way to really have this be actionable is if Then the committee had certain goals that they could then write into The review of department heads and to the town manager would be the only way to really see if this was working and I I don't know that I struggle with this because I think that maybe we don't I don't know that we even need this Committee, I think we could take the two or three things that this committee would do And siphon them off to another committee and not really be adding a lot of time. And that's just my reading Okay Yes me and a drill So transportation can take a lot of time public waste can take a lot of time It is the crc has two referrals sitting in front of it that deal with transportation public waste that it hasn't been able to fit On its agenda for months So moving it back to crc It's kind of crc is going to have to start meeting weekly if it comes back to Into the crc fold, but I want to address the other two The third bullet point in outreach and community Community relations is advise and make recommendations to the town council regarding town council participation in community events That's envisioned like the block party Like the first day celebration. Are we going to participate? If so, what is our participation going to look like someone on the council needs to take control of that? And it sits nowhere right now. So that is something we as a council Need to figure out how we're going to do and putting it into this town services and outreach Body would allow us to do that and would have a place again for that conversation and that decision making Um Measures that may affect the provision of services to the community by a town department We will actually be hearing about measures this evening That affect the provision of services in the wage theft bylaw that is item h That three counselors have been working on because that actually requires some town services department some town departments to Do some stuff And that is a legislation. It's a bylaw that affects town Departments and provision of services another one that is in process by myself and Two other counselors is a surveillance bylaw that requires town services to not buy any equipment that has Surveillance capability unless the council approves it That's the provision of services to the community by a town department that is a bylaw A measure that this council should probably have a place to talk about when it comes in front of the council As I intend to propose it along with my fellow counselors that i've been working on In the next couple months, hopefully sooner, you know, there are we we are a legislative body You're right But our legislation can affect town services and can affect town departments because we can write a bylaw That says you got to do this or you can't do that and we should have a committee that can look at that And then investigate it and make a recommendation to it other comments Darcy I I think it You know having this committee makes a lot of sense and I remember that you proposed it at the outset something um But I think that the um The amount of work that this committee could have just in the first three bullets of town services Could fill up its um schedule completely And you know, I feel like it's I was The you know, I I feel like I am the lone vote Against dissolving oka, but I see With uh, you know these three charges the amount of work that's added to each one of these committees By adding in the oka tasks is a lot um and I'm not sure that That is actually helpful in Making us run more efficiently because we're actually loading down these committees With these extra tasks that oka is already trained to do um, so um It makes a lot of sense to me for for this committee to be to be working on this stuff and In particular the first three bullets Andy So I have some concerns, but I want to start out by saying that I think that the creation of the committee is a sound proposal and One of the things that it was made is this very strong point is that In order to give counselors an opportunity to Share and some of the larger questions that we're facing that it does make sense to divide crc's responsibilities in some manner And this on the whole seemed logical With that said a little uncomfortable going forward tonight and acting on the draft charge is presented I really think it needs more thought One of the things that we have to always know is that Finance is dealing with town services too because it's dealing with what it is that the manager proposes to fund and whether The funding seems adequate to the task that we have Described to us for that particular department's functions and Those kinds of issues Kind of deal with a place where tso and finance need to coordinate and work together well The other thing that I was considering is is that We do need to be very careful about And this has been referenced earlier the relationship between the executive and legislative branches of government And within that piece An article I think it's 6.1 the question of Departmental reorganization is very explicitly set forth in the charter and is not referenced in this charge or incorporated into this charge so I'm Fine with continuing on the quest of trying to develop a charge, but I'd think to do it tonight would not be a sound thing to do Kathy I'm trying not to duplicate anything so on On I think sarah's point was trying to make sure that This committee has some real authority and areas of responsibility. So one of the places I found it Where would this go? Under transportation. I think if we explicitly said parking It's a big issue So transportation could encompass parking and I don't think we should later on have to say this part of parking goes to CRC or TSO, but What is our permitting policy? What how long are the meters open? Should they end at six o'clock at night? What do we charge? Is a set of policies so This is where I didn't I'm not ready to say what I think specifically should would be Is it on referral review proposed changes because I think in some cases We might want to have the council Say we think there should be some changes in policies that we have Some governance over so this is How I would word that so would it be just be in response to something that comes to them So suppose some counselors got together and came up with a new parking policy Which committee would we go to and I think TSO would be the logical one if we put parking I just want the word parking in it somewhere. Okay, yeah, Evan. Yeah, I'd love to respond to that because since Since jol started talking about this again on november 20th This question has come up a few times about whether or not to actually write the word parking in there And the reason why it's not and there's actually a deliberate decision And it's that TSO should weigh in when it has to do with Parking that's part of the public way. So regulation of public ways is a TSO thing So what you're talking about a parking meter times regulations, that's all part of our regulation of public ways that goes into TSO But just saying parking well that could actually lead us astray on a few issues and so for example If we are looking at potentially rezoning a parcel in town for a private parking garage That's parking, but it's actually a crc thing because it's about rezoning and there's a lot of conversations about Shared parking agreements and private parking and that's really sort of a long-term planning thing that that might belong more in crc And if we're talking about how we use funds in the transportation enterprise fund Well, that actually probably belongs more in finance than it belongs In TSO, but it's technically a parking question. And so I think the concern was we really want to narrow the scope saying This has to do with anything that's parking when it's in the public way But there might be parking situations that make sense to go elsewhere Um, and so this has been a conversation we've had And I understand the the desire for clarity But I also worry that this is the parking the public ways committee not necessarily the parking committee because parking touches so many different things Okay listen So, um, following up on just the little parking part. Um, I'm not sure why including transportation is in parentheses, but not And parking in the public way is included in parentheses that I hear what you're saying But I think following I want Kathy saying maybe that's a way to combine that I've read your report and um, but I'm still trying to understand and maybe I just missed it somewhere So I think part of what my problem was with reading the TSO charge was my eyes were just glazing over I'm like, I don't even know what that stuff means. And so now I'm getting a better sense of what you were trying to get at by town services Um, and and I just didn't grasp that before but speaking specifically about surveillance equipment and wage theft Which we both know are very hot topics I wonder if gl could or could speak about why those aren't gl items because to me They're they've become the experts on what's actionable. What's clear. What's consistent Anything by law related is going to come out of gl so I don't know I don't understand what TSO can add to that That gl can't do on their own Vandy job So there's a review for clarity consistency and action ability, but then there's also in theory a review for Is it a good idea? And I'm using that phrase but but as CRC has adopted its own policy on reviewing measures It it when a measure comes to CRC, um, we didn't adopt it in time for the percent for art, but we looked at Hey, we were tasked with looking at percent for art to make a recommendation to the council on Whether to adopt that bylaw not whether it was clear consistent and actionable and so that committee and so then wage theft others if the Council wants it would look at a committee referred to gl can't look at that bylaw for is it good to adopt It's just whether it's legal to adopt because the gl Charge as written is not a substantive looking at the substantive pros cons Is this something we should do it's just a looking at it of is it actionable and can we do it not should we do it CRC for percent for art was looking at well. What are the effects if this is adopted? You know, what are the effects on, you know, social justice issues or you know art in general, um, you know Random things like that the economic vitality of downtown life, you know Quality quality of life all those things and then based on that consideration makes a recommendation Yes or no, we think this bylaw should be passed Maybe no we don't think that bylaw should be passed gls as you've noticed gl on all of these There is not a recommendation. It is they voted to declare it clear consistent and actionable. So that's why Those don't belong in gl unless This body wants to give gl That review authority on all bylaws versus non-bylaw measures And I phrase it correctly just like I didn't understand the words the beginning of the thing But I understand that that's gls role now and I understand what got brought up what feels like hours ago associated with the future Considerations item and like how is gl going to be able to do the future considerations thing? Without just talking about whether or not it's actionable and that's why I'm wondering This feels a little bit like It just feels weird to me. It feels like gl Is well placed to have that conversation as opposed to splitting it off to tso because y'all still going to have to look at Whether or not it's actionable consistent and clear so why not Expand their role in that area and so rather than having tso why not expand gls role in that and so just maybe that wasn't covered and I'm sorry I didn't ask the question the right way Dore did you have a further clarification on that one gol? I think we didn't necessarily consider that because we have heard feedback from this council for nearly a year That this council was not receptive to that Exactly. Okay, dorthy so If gol tells us what it is And crc says It's a good idea. It's a bad idea. Then does tsi tso Say how do we do it? What town agencies? Yes Yes Sarah So that's just I guess my confusion and I think I'm with elissa I think the more that we talk about it or are given examples It makes more sense But the thing that kind of just also just feels a little bit weird to me Is it how andy said there are certain things that our finance committee? I feel like a lot of these things actually do fit in other committees and in that way it does feel like Busy work to me or taking something away from a committee that actually has more knowledge about it. So I'm not I'm getting more of an idea of what this means, but I I still Let me as much as I I actually want this issue to be resolved one way or another because Many of you have been sitting here saying, you know, I'd like to serve on a different committee but What I believe that GOL has done Is stand back and say of our committees What aren't we doing what haven't we covered and they've come up with a different way to shuffle the deck None of this Should be taken personally and I think that's very very hard and I really want to say I am extremely happy and proud of the work that every committee has done for the last Year plus And we've made great strides as a council But we always said we want to step back and look at how we've organized our committees Now being the person who first put the ideas of committees out Which I often have to do and then be willing to be shot at On a regular basis um I think this has been a very healthy discussion and I think what it's pointed out is That Maybe some things aren't as clearly understood But I do want to go back to the fact that even 15 months ago when we started proposing committees I wrestled with the issue of town services and it never ended up anywhere I wrestled with the issue of outreach and okka worked to address it and it's not been It's been frustrating The other thing I just want to say Everybody has developed skills and talents in the process of their committee work We all bring those skills and talents. We've listened to each other And the process of one committee does not belong to an individual it belongs to the council So those processes are well worked through And will I am sure be respected no matter how we decide to shuffle the deck on our committees So I would like to suggest We take a break Because if we don't I think we're going to start having people just get up and leave To go to the restroom. Okay, so we're going to reconvene in 10 minutes. All right while We were Taking our modest break There's been some attempt to look at the various charges And see if we can at least continue to move forward. So I'm going to I guess Athena you have them is that Athena are you in charge of what's up on the screen? Okay. Thank you So, uh, do you want to show us the actual changes? No, it's this is only going to be on the screen. It won't be in your packet Just There we go. And now could you enlarge it for those of us that are getting older? Some people don't age some people do Okay, so what you have done is you've split out town finance committee And they've been non voting members You have added to that other bullet if referred by the council And you have added to the next bullet The process for appointments Are there other discussions about this one? Okay, then let's go on to yes Darcy Are we going to talk about all of them in a row? Um I'm just Stating that I I don't think I could vote for this because of the bullet about um council liaisons joint capital planning committee because I believe that we should just take that one out Rather than adding the phrase if referred by the council because Okay, it's it's not needed um And I I just think that we'll end up referring it if we have that phrase there And I don't want it referred Other comments on this one. Um, yes, Kathy. I I raised the original concern and I agree with Darcy what I was trying to do is get deleted And I I will repeat um The tension it could cause in the council if we were in a situation There were four or five people that wanted for two slots And a subgroup is making choices among them including often among themselves wanting it I I think we don't want to set up that dynamic and there are 13 of us we can Deal we don't have very many of these where we're appointing ourselves So I think it's pretty easy to do we do a quick voting and rank voting if there are three slots It's not complicated and that's why we wrote the rule It is a rule. It's 10.6 of the council rules of procedure right now. We set it up to be pretty simple So I think it's till it's failing us Oh, we shouldn't open up the possibility that we're going to do it in a different way I just don't see any need for this wording Are there other just comments on this one? Yes, Evan Yeah, so we just closed the conversation on liaisons and there seemed to be somewhat broad agreement if I'm interpreting not incorrectly that the Committees that should have liaisons should be reviewed every year This is the bullet that would allow go well to do that and so I think one of the things that I think we need to be better at as a council Is and I think we're moving there is having more specific referrals By which I mean we used to just go I refer that to go well or for that to CRC And I think we're moving to a point. We're saying we're referring here's the time limit and here's what we want back And I think that keeping things in the charge broad but keeping our referral specific would be useful So for instance, maybe our referral to go well would be To give us some recommendations about which committee should have liaisons But we're not referring to them Who do who those liaisons should be or or maybe we're referring to them a process for appointing jcpc Counselors because we feel as though the process we've been using hasn't worked But we can specify in the referrals but still keep the authority there because the council is still the gatekeeper So I want to add to what you just said evan and say that I also believe that We agreed I was going to send out one of my polls and Come back with a recommendation without referral. Is that correct? So this allows referral But it doesn't require referral Is that how I'm reading that? and We're pointing out that it's for one year or and well for less than that even The I'll speak to the next one since I was very clear about how uncomfortable I am with it. I'm still uncomfortable But I also don't foresee the problem And it says if referred by the council and I have to say that Should any of these particular situations arise I'm president would bring it to the council for discussion and Make a decision as to whether or not we're going to form an ad hoc committee rather than refer Yes, listen if I could just follow up on that. I think I understand the level of discomfort and I'm going to have really strong opinions about any of such processes But again if referred by the council, I would think that if it comes up We should sit here at the town council and say our choices are to come up with an ad hoc committee With me just asking random people if they want to do it Or we could try first to refer it to this body Let this body come up with a process that may just be you know what? I think the president should just put it out a poll Or it could be something that they've thought more about because I would actually rather see it owned by a committee to have To feel like they might be responsible for processes Rather than on the fly sitting here saying let's create an ad hoc committee. That's just going to go create this out of Whole cloth. I I like the idea of a home as long as it's if referred There's another possibility and that is you do something like I just spent the last Two weeks joining getting ready to do vacancies And you put together a process and you bring it to the council and they decide you should continue to Nurse it along So there's it it's more than just cut and dry making You know in other words make a council decision on the fly versus refer there's other options in between so I'm I'm not as opposed to it as I felt I was in the past. Yes, Darcy If if we're talking in that The previous bullet point make recommendations regarding appointments by the town council for non-voting council liaisons If we're not talking about this committee making Recommending specific people to be appointed counselors And we're just talking about the process. Why don't we add that to that bullet also? Regarding the process of of appointments Because isn't that what what that was what Evan was just suggesting that it would be that we would be Looking at reviewing Council liaisons on an annual basis and so on that's one thing that's different from The the committee Recommending specific counselors as liaisons many Joe So the word regarding is very broad so it would include potentially a process It would include potentially the actual recommendation on who It could also include What Liaisons there are You know, it is broad enough to include all of that again when Evan says You know, we want the charges broad and the referrals specific That's what this does Um, I remind the council we were kind of already talking earlier in this meeting that Oka would be back And be doing the potentially be doing the ones doing the polling on liaisons We've mentioned that at a couple meetings where it was We're going to get the list of committees and then Oka's going to do the polling and see who's interested And no one was having a problem with that and this is just moving it to gol But you know, okay, maybe no no one had mentioned having a problem with that Yet despite having been mentioned at multiple meetings. So this is just moving that To gol. I do want to point out that I don't actually believe this conflicts with rule 10.6 I believe it is um That says the council has to vote after polling They're still going to be polling that that can be polling Somewhere that poll can be referred to committee It can not be referred to committee and the council is still going to be the one to vote So this charge in no way conflicts with the rule Further questions or comments? Yes shallony I like the way we've been working so far with the polling But this seems like we can we're still going to keep doing that unless we need to refer it So there's always that choice and we can always vote not to refer it Like the discussion we're having now would happen then but it just it just gives us an option That if need be we can refer it. So that's why I'm I'm okay with the change as long as it's got the if referred better council All right, any further discussion on this one? Sure I guess the question is that are we ready ready for a motion on this one? Yes. Well, it's going to be a full motion. It's a it's a group joel brought this together as a Total group you can separate the motion or you can make it the way it's there. I'm going to make a motion I think that we it will be slightly different than what's printed because of the amendments here to I move to rescind the current community resources committee and governance organization and legislation committee charges effective immediately adopt the proposed town services and outreach and community resources committee charges As amended at the february 12th 2020 governance organization and legislation committee meeting effective immediately Except for the appointment responsibility for planning board and zoning board of appeals in the community resources charge adopt the proposed governance organization and legislation committee charge as amended on february 24th 2020 at the town council meeting effective immediately and rescind all duties in the outreach communications and appointments committee charge Except for making recommendations regarding appointments to planning board and zoning board of appeals appointment responsibility for planning board and zoning board of appeals Shall remain in outreach communications and appointments until july 1 2020 at which time the appointments responsibility for those bodies Shall shift to the community resources committee as provided in the charge and oh and outreach communications and appointments committee shall be dissolved second Thank you further discussion Alyssa beyond the fact that i'm not sure we're done with tsl Is that this does none of that motion as printed nor that i heard reflects the changes we're making tonight That reflected the change that was made at gl no no it it the additional said to 1220 I I got rid of gl in that lard That line and inserted an entire phrase that said adopt the gl charge as amended on february 24th 2020 at the council meeting effective immediately and you took out the part about the 2 12 20 That was the substitution. Yes Does that motion say we're accepting tso as written Okay, the motion's been made and seconded Is there further discussion? And if somebody wants to bring up tso, then now's the time to do that sarah I'm going to vote against it simply because of the reasons I don't want to be redundant simply because of the reasons that I brought up about my initial feelings about that committee Okay for the discussion I'm sorry, george I think this is really an important vote We really need to get to work With our committees, and I think we need to start making appointments Um, and I'm afraid we're letting the perfect become the enemy of the good Um, the proposals here could be word smith to death We could take this and move that and right, but the underlying purpose still remains to try and Create a services a town services committee that I think is badly needed Um, when people come to me and talk to me It's usually about some issue or problem. They have with town services and I mean I I go to paul or whatever, but I think this is something that we as a legislative body It's desperately needed. We also need to take the workload off of crc Um, and I think the idea of sharing out appointments Um makes sense It's not perfect, but if we spend the next two three four meetings trying to get this to be absolutely letter perfect We will we will get nowhere. So I'm imploring my fellow counselors to Really think hard about whether the objections that you have are so fundamental That we can't make what I think is a really important change This will all be reviewed in december And we will look at it and maybe you'll all point to me and say you fool this you you let us down a Right, but I I don't think so. Um, but we need to um move forward And to if you send tso back to my committee, I have absolutely no idea what I'm going to do with it As a matter of fact, I'm probably going to bring it back in the form that it's in So we need to decide we don't want it if you don't want it fine say that and then we're done But I think it's desperately needed. This is our chance to do it. Um, we will review it all in december Um, don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good alissa And and I hear that and so I'm willing to try and make some compromise tonight rather than Separating out tso and having us vote on the others, which would be one alternative Um Until we hear support for that But I the deal breaker that's really hard for me even though there's actually several things I don't really like in here But the deal breaker for me is bullet two advise the town council on matters related to the operation of town government That is so broad That is beyond any kitchen sink. I don't it doesn't matter what you intended it to mean The words say that and so I as a resident say I really don't like the way the sidewalks been repaired in front of my house Oh tso has to come up with a proposal to advise the town council on how to fix the sidewalk in front of my house That makes no sense to me. So if that wasn't in there, I get the part about review and make recommendations when it's measures Like it's a measure that you're saying, okay, we've heard enough about some particular thing We need to bring something to the council but to say on matters really The person was rude to me at such and such counter like that's not a complaint that comes to this committee I'm just really worried that I don't think that's a workable bullet And I feel like we're opening ourselves up to people coming in and saying I'm unhappy about a particular service and that's going Thank you for sharing that we're just telling the town manager because all the staff is his job so I get the part about the surveillance and that kind of thing. I just don't see how bullet two fits Would you like to make a motion that affects tso? I would like to remove the second bullet that advises the town council on matters related to the operation of town government Is there a second? Okay so That motion is At this point the motion we're dealing with and then we'll come back to the full motion So the motion is to remove from the tso charge Advise the town council on matters related to the operation of town government Discussion There was one other proposed change elizabeth earlier That on tso the third bullet that where it says including transportation. She said and parking policy So it would be clear that that word It referred to the public ways Do you yeah, I think the goal here is to give the committees a friendly amendment Yeah, something in there that it's clear that it's parking in the public way that we're talking about but public way proceeds it Okay, all right. Thank you Uh, so let's stick to the first one the motion is to remove The phrase advise the town council on matters related to the operation of town government. Is there any further discussion? Dorsey, I would Agree with that motion because it is so general that it doesn't actually mean anything And if there's something that needs to be brought up it will be brought up by that the new tso committee And the town council will discuss it So I don't think we lose anything by getting rid of it and we avoid a future complication Mandy jump if it needs to be brought up and we remove this bullet point tso cannot bring it up Right So if you get rid of the bullet point and there's as you Dorothy as you just said if something needs to be brought up Tso will bring it up Well, it won't be able to without that bullet point there because without that bullet point The only thing it can do is Act and make recommendations on actual measures So if there's something that sees as problematic you need that second bullet point in there to bring it up Dorothy I That's an awfully formalistic thing. I mean that someone will bring it up Whether it's a formal being brought up as by a committee or by a member of the committee or by a member of the town council We bring things up. We talk about things Everything doesn't have to come formally through a committee in a formal structure It doesn't say that it has to it just says this is where it can go I would like to be able to tell my constituents sometimes Especially if I get the same complaint over and over again that this is something we can bring to or someone can bring to this committee So I interpret in that sense It's just Yeah, I'm going to vote for the motion to remove the bullet because I'm really concerned about the structure of our charter and the distinction between the roles of the legislative and executive And I don't think we have sufficient clarity here About what that role is second and related to that is that We as a council evaluate the town manager on an annual basis and if As counselors we've alerted the manager that we've been hearing problems and We're not satisfied with the response then It seems that's the appropriate time to go about it but to invest it in a committee and to give a committee an unclear role that is Not clearly and consistent with the charter Makes me very uncomfortable further comment Mandy Joe sorry Charter section 2.8 investigations and access to information Investigations the town council may investigate the fares of the town and the conduct or performance of any town agency Except those agencies under the jurisdiction of the school committee regional school committee or library trustees Request for information must comply with the following sections This bullet point gives a home to where to do those investigations if we want to do those investigations without It being figured out in a council meeting or being done by the full council the bullet point Gives a home to the charter section that specifically allows us to do those investigations Could you could we add the charter section? As we have done low for a point of clarity The motion on the table is to remove the whole thing. We couldn't add it if we're voting on a motion to remove right Okay, there's a motion on the table to remove It's been made in second. Is there any further comment? Okay, then Yes All those in favor. Oh shallony go ahead I am too All those in favor raise your hand. This is the Saying yes means we're remove removing that bullet All those in favor raise your hand and say I remove to remove opposed Do you have everybody? Athena And abstain opposed. Please raise your hands So The motion passed seven to six Okay, is there any other statements about of Tsl I just don't know whether it's a statement, but there was the Adding the words about and parking policy With the including transportation Okay, it's a motion made in seconded second police Any further comment on that one Evan so so you said parking policy elissa early you said parking in the public way That I would vote for that. I will not vote for parking policy. Okay, so tell me exactly what it is you're saying Okay, the paren says related to public way Ways comment including transportation and parking. So it's relating it to public ways You could say including transportation and parking because it said related to public ways and parking. Yeah, that's all Okay The motion is to add in the paren's and parking Is there any it's been made it's been seconded? Did I have a second? Yes. Okay. Thank you any further discussion on this Shalini So what I heard Evan say earlier was and which made sense to me is that if the parking issues Related to a garage or something that that belongs more in finance and crc Versus over here. So just a broad parking statement Would be met would not be appropriate for this correct It's public ways. Okay, so as long as it's related Okay Any further discussion on that Call the question all those in favor of adding and parking Into that paren's raise your hand and say aye I opposed We're now back to the original motion. Is there any other? Tinkering anybody wants to do It passed seven to six seven to six. Thank you For the purposes of the public We're back to the original motion original motion Do you want to read it, please? Sure To rescind the current community resources committee and governance organization and legislation committee charges effective immediately Adopt the proposed town services and outreach and community resources committee charges as amended And effective immediately except for the appointment Responsibility for planning board and zoning board of appeals and then community resources committee charge Adopt the governance organization and legislation committee charge as amended on 224 2020 at the town council meeting effective immediately And rescind all duties in the outreach communication and appointments committee charge Except for making recommendations regarding appointments To planning board and zoning board of appeals appointment responsibilities for planning board and zoning board of appeals shall remain in Outreach communications and appointments until july 1 2020 at which time the appointments responsibility for those bodies shall shift To community resources committee as provided in the charge and outreach communications and appointments shall be dissolved I missed the the two amendments so I can fit those in Okay is Mandy joe you made the original amendment is that I made the original motion and evin seconded it. Okay. Yes I'm sorry. I mean andy and those those that motion has now been amended the charges referenced in those motions have now been amended Right Yeah, my concern is is that we haven't talked about gl Committee charge again in this follow-up to try and get to a final result and I had an issue with The gl charge so therefore I can't support this because You know, it'd be very specific about what it is Um, I said earlier that I would like to get the finance committee an opportunity to discuss I'm willing to give up on that But I would like to have something in there about non-voting Make recommendations to the town council regarding appointment by the town council for They'll skip to non-voting finance committee members with appropriate participation by The finance committee So the the finance committee has to be consulted in the interview process Okay, so the there's a motion. There is a revision up here And we have not adopted this We did adopt it. No, we did not so andy wanted to we separated out finance committee above Okay In that you all make Recommendations to the town council regarding appointments by the town council for non-voting finance committee members Okay, do you want to amend that? Yes to add the words in consultation with The finance committee And i'm going to stop there because that's the amendment first and then um If it's seconded I will Speak to it because it's a very limited piece. Okay. This is the motion's been made. Is there a second? I'll second it dorthy. Okay. Okay. Um, what I am Really referencing is that The recommendation decision remains in gl That's not Part of what is suggested by the amendment But in the last round There was no ability of the Finance committee to have even a single representative involved with the interview process and to make Comments to the committee that was making the recommendation to the council and This is a way of remedying that piece But still leaving the final decision Within a committee That is designated for it. The motion's been made in seconded pat Well, I would like to hear from oka because that's not my memory, but i'm hazy about it I think that we need people Sarah I What we did is what we did for finance committee is what we did for Zba and planning board which is to speak to the chair and ask the chair for input on what they were seeking in people and what Qualifications and we took everything that the chair said In account when we were choosing someone and we were very clear to make it known what the chair of finance committee had said Finance did come to uh, oka several times three or four meetings With one or two people and it really made it clear to us what they were looking for Um, and we we definitely took that into account I think that we the only thing that we did was that we had made the decision that a chair of a committee could not be part of the actual interview process because We did not feel that it was correct for a chair to actually be picking their own Members so that's what what we did. I think that's correct, right? And so that's how we came down on it So I would have no problem with the chair again, you know If go well talk to the chair as the chair what they're seeking in members I would say that you know that was oka had said they didn't want a chair as part of the or Of the interview process. We didn't do that for any other of our recommendations. So that's And Joe So I can't support the amendment because it says in consultation with the whole committee The whole committee includes the non voting members and if they've applied for reappointment You have to consult them on whether they should be reappointed that to me Doesn't make any sense. So I can't support the amendment Andy That could be remedied by saying uh council members of the finance committee the Summary that was given of the process I agree with um, but actually I think oka has made some significant strides in the appointment process since then as was evident in the last planning board appointment Where there was public interviews in which all counselors could attend and I think that we were moving in a direction That was opening about opening up the process some I didn't want to get really explicit about what the process should be because I didn't think that that was appropriate for the charge But I Wanted to Do something that moves it in the direction that we went with the planning board appointments and Oka's very good improvements there I'm That's not what you're saying what you said before Andy what you said is you wanted to be Consulted that you wanted to be part of the a process directly sitting Uh and making the recommendation and my memory Uh and which isn't always great, but my memory of there was um a person that who got recommended that you didn't want as a non resident voting member or resident Non voting member and that happened again with planning where somebody got recommended And there were people who felt like it wasn't a good decision Bringing your opinions about the decisions is very important But because you lost doesn't mean that you should change the whole process To fit you better Andy Well, first of all, that's not true about the finance committee Um I said that I wanted to talk with one of the persons who was Recommended just to ask a question and uh Never had the opportunity until afterwards, but the question was satisfactorily answered Eventually anyway and uh, but there was never opposition to any to the appointment um as To the individual and it was really a process question and it sort of got sidestepped because The conversation never took place. So I do take exception to that statement. Um, I do think that it's a Sufficiently open Because ultimately it gives the responsibility to It does not give responsibility The extent of the participation Is all is going to be a decision Uh, excuse me. It's going to be a decision of gl But that At least that there has to be some conversation as I said I would do a friendly amendment consultation with the council members of the finance committee If that addresses part of the question I need a point of clarification when you are saying in consultation Are you saying to be part of the interviews? Are you saying as has been done in the past? It's hard to decide say what's been done in the past because ok has been trying to revise this process and improve its process um, and uh So it's I think that the process Uh Is ultimately the decision is to have this goes forward is left with gl The um amendment is simply to say Talk to the finance talk talk to the council members of the finance committee Okay, so first of all, there's been I'm sorry. There's been an amendment or a suggestion of an amendment of to With the council members of the finance committee Okay um And the person who made the motion do they accept this? And he made the motion and Dorothy do you accept it? Thank you Evan thank you And so first of all, I want to thank sarah for correcting the record on Finance committee's involvement and I want to add two things She mentioned that members of finance were consulted that two members of finance sat in on one of our meetings And were treated almost as if they were members of the committee giving us full feedback We also finance developed the committee handout. They wrote that that was sent to all interviewees and we allowed finance committee to draft interview questions that we then tried to modify And so finance committee was integrated into the process more than any other committee has been At the time and since So so I thank you sarah for correcting that because that was a gross misrepresentation of the process one thing I want to say with regard to oka and its process So oka if the motion passes will be dissolved at the end of june And appointments authority will go to gol for this to tso for some and for crc to some Oka has spent a really long time working on the process that we just used for planning board And it's my sincere hope that the committees that inherit those appointments will also take on board that process I hope that that they won't try and reinvent the wheel One part of that process that oka has been adopted, which I hope will be adopted is section four b Which says prior to the adoption of selection guidance The oka chair in this case, whatever body chair shall solicit from the chair of the body to be appointed The following and a bunch of things and so part of built into this process Is that the chair of the appointed the body that's charged with us Actually reaches out to the chair and says We're seeking your input on this vacancy. We're seeking your input on what you need what you're looking for And of course the chair could just give their own opinion But the expectation is the chair will also consult the rest of the body And so I'm voting against this motion In part because I find it superfluous It's it's built into the process at play And it keeps being referenced that oka has revised this process But this was actually a carryover for the previous process. This isn't new. This is something we did before It's something we did again. It's something that that's worked and it's already in there And so this this additional language is unnecessary. Um, Evan, I just want to ask something the process that oka Uses as I recall is never adopted by the council You know, it's a committee process. So each each committee will ideally adopt some process But with the dissolution of the committee the process Doesn't continue. So I'm kind of concerned that there's that assumption Which is why I said it's my sincere hope that every committee Will and perhaps they won't and that is their right to not But my hope is and I agree totally with everything you're saying I The purpose here is to just Ensure the consultation. That's all So if I could you wish so would we also add that to the crc charge in consultation with planning board and zba I hear you. Okay. Alyssa and so thank you for Pulling all those pieces together and I appreciate you putting a very fine point on that because I will vote against every recommendation You bring to this council if you don't follow the process we've already set up with some rationale for why you're changing something because We've all worked on this a really long time And so you want to tweak something sure, but you better have a rationale for having done it and Finance committee. It's true. We haven't had to do it again And we're not going to be allowed to so if one of your finance committee members that's a non voting member Resigns good luck with that because nobody's job to do it But When you do it, you know, you might do it the way we just most recently did planning board and then we're about to do zba You might do it the way we did for finance committee But that part about consultation we have to assume that the council thought was a good idea And unless we're going to add it to all the others I don't see why we need to add it just for finance committee I will say that I don't think finance committee really belongs here in gol actually It's just there's no place else to put it honestly. I don't think it's really the right spot for it, but Given that there's sentiment that people are unwilling to let finance committee choose their own members, right? Which would be a way somebody could do it You got to stick it somewhere and it doesn't fit any better any place else which is why it was convenient to have an appointments committee, but You're right that that process is not a town council process. So we just have to trust that that's going to continue Okay So the motion's been made seconded and the amendment to this has been also agreed to among the Parties that made the motion. Is there any further discussion? What we are voting on is the statement In consultation with the council members of the finance committee Kathy I want to say one thing for the record there There was a proposal to let finance select and There was some sentiment for that and different committees voted different ways on it. So This wasn't not thought of earlier on Is there a further discussion on this item? Andy just to one sentence It is different from the planning board and the zoning board of appeals because this is a standing committee of the council any further discussion Shallowney So I do appreciate the OCA process and I'm sure we're going to follow that But like Lynn pointed out I would agree that Processes might change we might come up with something better in the future And this is a charge and so I think this is something we I mean finance committee Think we would I'm not in finance committee anymore But I think that we by putting it in the charge for the committee It just makes that part a part of even if the process is changed This is very clear that this consultation will take place. I would like to keep it The way and you This the statement is not in relationship to this But I also want to recognize the fact that I also consulted with evan about the process of Appointments and vacancies when I was putting together the lengthy set of things so In respect of the OCA process Thank you. The motion on the floor is to add in In consultation with the council members of the finance committee Is there any further discussion? Okay, then I'm going to call the question all those in favor of adding in consultation With the council members of the finance committee. Please raise your hand and say I I Opposed Okay, the motion And abstain It's six to Six to seven. Thank you. The motion fails Now we are back to the original motion Okay, and the motion is very lengthy and basically involves Adopting these various committee charges that for gol OCA and sear note gol Tso and CRC And dissolving And OCA will continue to exist But only for the purposes of the zoning and planning board appointments Until the end of june Okay, is that The summer. Yes, elissa and to clarify we are talking about Because I remember what the report said and i'm a little worried about what the motion says But i'm sure mandy joe will reassure me Which is that we are also planning to deal with planning board and zoning board appointments that expire june 30th That's correct. They're done before the next body has to take them. That is correct. Okay. Good. Just being clear on that Whereas for finance committee, we will not be doing that and that will immediately shift over to gol So that if any vacancies occur in those bodies or the when the Reappointment time comes up that will be in gol. Okay moving forward So i'm i really appreciate the work that gol has done in breaking up these three and Formulating these three committees the way they are and for three specific reasons. I support that one is that CRC will have the time to look at The important issues including economic development, which has not been looked at at all secondly the like george pointed out that there are a lot of residents who bring up issues related to processes and services and The what is it the t Tso committee can then look at now take out time to investigate and look at some of these processes and transparency in town pertaining to the services So i'm happy that there will be time for that and then thirdly in terms of we've I know we haven't yet been successful in getting more engagement of UMass students maybe or other community members and And now it seems like again the tso committee will have that charge and maybe the time to look at ways and Connect with different community members So I am in favor. Are there any other comments? Sarah I feel like I have worked really hard to listen to what people had to say around How we're restructuring things and how it would lessen the load I talked to people about how these things were being restructured um I'm not gonna I was going to vote for this because I I believe what george said is that we all have to pull For the common good and get this done and over with I believe that the rest of the council will do that When the president of this council quickly says That oak a process was just the oak a process and it is not ratified by the council what that says to me is No, and it's fine. It's fine. I am going to say what I have to say and I'm going to leave it here I will not hold a grudge. I will not and I've said that before But what I am hearing is that when people said Restructuring of this has nothing to do with what oak has done in the past and we respect you very much I don't believe that's true I believe that part of this was to take away the responsibility from a group of people That it felt like we were difficult and that people thought that they could do that process better and I'm willing to you know say great Maybe tso is going to be fantastic But we cannot control if somebody's pothole doesn't get filled. There's only so much we can do I still feel very much like that is a committee that was formed to maybe absorb Other people and really all it is going to end up doing is maybe some communications and outreach which I don't really think Exist but we could make them And that it's going to have a place where when residents are upset about something They can go to a committee and they can express their frustration, but that committee really can do Nothing except to make them feel heard and I just have to say that I have to let it be known that that is how I feel But I will drop it here. I will drop it here, but that's how I feel Are there other comments Pat I am concerned about and I've shared this in our meeting. So it's not new This drop in for every resident I have while I have great respect for the issues that residents bring forward I also know that there are times when a resident doesn't get what they think they should get That they become extremely difficult for staff and other people And I don't think that and I'm concerned that that's a potential for this committee That it will be the committee that people holler at that people That people put out their frustration on potholes forgetting that we get potholes every winter because of expansion and contraction You know, and I am concerned about that. I think sarah is bringing up an important issue there Are there other comments at this time? Darcy I agree with a lot of what sarah said and I just want to mention the fact that um It seems like a lot of the reason for doing this restructuring is to increase our efficiency and um if if each one of these three committees that now has Appointments responsibilities and some to some extent outreach and communication if they then need to form subcommittees Then we will actually, you know, that will add work That will add more committee meetings that need to be posted and need minutes and blah blah blah Um So I You know if this is the way we are going That's the way it is, but I hope that it actually doesn't complicate matters You know to to be giving crc The responsibility for planning board and zba That's a big responsibility. We this morning at oka. We talked about Evan counting up the hours that he has put into um all of the Organizing around having interviews and so on that's a big job So we're taking Stuff we're taking responsibility away from crc and giving them The appointments responsibility Which is not a small thing um So i'm just saying That it does really feel to me also Like a lot of this was about dissolving oka Are there other comments at this time? Dorothy we We spent a lot of time just in the very beginning for I guess for the first year figuring out what to do and how to do it And oka had a huge load of work to do because we had a lot of vacancies and I think we're just beginning to come to the end of The batch of vacancies I have been very happy and satisfied with all of the people who have been appointed I think that they show care and thoughtfulness and concern on the part of the committee I guess I saw oka getting some of the flak that crc was getting that we were taking too long to do things But as you know, it's very difficult to do things so I had no idea that some people in oka felt that this was a move to Do away with their committee. I thought it was a move to spread It's it's in some of the papers that a lot of people felt. Oh, gee crc has all the interesting meaty stuff And more people on the council wanted to be involved in that kind of thing Which is one of the reasons why the tso committee was suggested so I Just don't want you to feel sarah that nobody knew respected and and was aware of the work of the committee because we were And we were admiring it and I think you've got a great bunch of appointments I haven't heard a single word of criticism about any of them Are there other comments at this time? Okay, then I'm going to call the question At this point the question is the full set of changes. That's a really good statement pat Um Okay, it's to accept the new charge For crc the new charge for gol It's to add tso with its charge and all the various amendments And then it is to have oka continue With its excellent process and I do mean that Um That in have oka continue with that for the purposes of appointing Zba and planning board and reappointments through the end of june That's in essence where we are Now would you like the motion read in its full wording? No, okay all right all those in favor of This committee restructuring. Please raise your hand and say I I opposed abstain So nine to four to zero And with that I will begin polling in the next 24 to 48 hours Um We're moving on to um The next item on the agenda Which is the statement of project eligibility um There was a request at the last meeting That we develop a letter that would go in the packet of statements with regard to project eligibility For 132 north Hampton road Again in consultation I developed this letter and It's your opportunity to tear it apart George I don't want to tear it apart Actually, I'm grateful that you took this on lin and I think also I think alissa had a hand in this And maybe there were others but I think it was important to do and I appreciate the fact That you did it um I have a suggested amendment that I have Shown to lin and I've given to a few of you all give to all of you in a moment Related to just the last paragraph. Um, I would My thought is let me just speak to the thought before Is that I think we should be very clear I feel that this council has been clear in its support of this project And I would like that to be clear in the the letter and I So should it be the beginning or at the end and it seemed more appropriate at the end To to express that so I've just made or I'm going to propose a couple of small changes But the essence of it is is and again, you may not agree This is something that that you will decide but I think that we should express What I say our strong support for the proposed single occupancy support of housing at 132 northampton road So that's the essence of my Amendment and I can share the copies with people Lin has one but I can give it to the rest of you But I'll let the the president decide how she wants to proceed but um, I appreciate very much that you did this And um, my suggestion is to just make it a bit stronger I hope that you'll agree So the way that george has worded this last paragraph is to say consistent with the previous actions of various governing and advisory bodies of the town of amherst the town council Striking the word through its own actions Continues to to strike that and say express in strong support force expresses its strong support for The proposed single room occupancy sro supportive housing at 132 northampton road amherst mess Submitted by valley Community development corporation valley cdc. We continue to encourage residents to share their views during the DHcd review period As well as at future zoning board of appeals hearings Is there a second to that change? Dorothy I second it Any further discussion? Does the clerk need a copy because I have a you have one. Thank you Any further discussion on that? So that's a motion to Adjust this and then we'll We never we never did a motion for the whole letter. All right Ah, thank you All right first have a motion to suspend the rules Which is suspend rule suspend rule 8.4 Which allows us to act on this without bringing back to a second council meeting So and the reason to do that is because the packet needs to be filed In the next week or so. Okay. Is there a motion to suspend rule 8.4 for this item second Second. Okay. Thank you. Any further discussion on that? All those in favor raise your hand and say aye Opposed Upstain Okay, now is there a motion to um Have this letter go forward as presented As amended I'm sorry as amended Is there a motion? Is there a second? Thank you Any further discussion Mandy job so, um I'm gonna abstain Which I don't do very often Because I don't want to vote no because I actually support this project but For the last five or six months or more We have been telling the neighborhood and the residents in the neighborhood and anyone else that came to us Seeking comment or seeking us to do anything or seeking us to To review changes and seeking help from us that we had no further action to take on this matter And this letter takes further action It uses the power of the office the power of the town council to submit a comment in support of this to the dhcd And while I support the project I think it's wrong for us to tell our constituents that we will not be further involving ourselves in this project And then go ahead and further involve ourselves in the project. So for that reason I will be abstaining Alyssa So I will take some blame for that because I certainly tried to delineate that when we had various public processes But perhaps I was forgetting because of when the select board did it. It is a different way as the executive With the beacon communities north amherst project It was obvious to me That we would write something associated with the Pell letter and it is also obvious to me that we will take a position As a board and we will submit it to the zoning board of appeals So that would also fly in the face of what you are saying. So I appreciate that sentiment, but I Still and I don't want to seem like I'm splitting hairs and I'm sure some people will argue that I am But it's true. We can't take any further action to compel any action as a town council We could we could vote for the funding and that was really the only thing we had a choice about at that point But I never believed that we wouldn't continue to advocate for the project because we do believe in the project And I never believed that we might not or we might choose not to have something to say to the zba about it Depending on what various things are brought up in everybody's comments that we might feel like we can take a position to say Yep, that's right zba. I hope you'll take that into account or nope We're not touching that but I still feel like this is not the same thing as a town council action Evan Oh, i'm sorry kathy. I I just want to build on When we supported taking 500 000 dollars In support of them going for a project that was going to leverage state money. We were in effect saying We supported at the state level. That's all this letter is saying. This is the Next step if they can't get through this, it doesn't happen, you know So we we voted when we voted on that money of much larger state Project So I think this goes with it and it's maybe we didn't word the earlier statements perfectly, but To not support them getting the state money would basically be to return that money to us Because it won't happen without the state money So this was part of that earlier vote any further conversation Dorothy I have a question. I mean right now they have a proposal that they're sending into the state I believe that they can change things that the state can change things that things happen in in the zoning board of appeals If we send a letter of support, we are supporting the proposal That is going to the state. We're not necessarily supporting any changes that valley cdc might make or that the zba might make Is that not correct? That's correct, right? So I could see me not supporting it if certain things changed If for example the level of support which they increased In response to comments from a variety of people if they changed that I could see not supporting it at the moment. I support the proposal as it is written But that's all that we would be supporting in this letter Any further comment Evan I just wanted to say really quickly that while I respectfully disagree with what you said I really appreciate you taking the time to explain your abstention Okay, thank you any further comment Okay, so the motion is to adopt or to approve the council's statement of project eligibility as presented As amended, I'm sorry as amended And it's been made in a seconded any further discussion All those in favor raise your hand and say I Oppose abstain Okay, thank you We are moving on to the proposed wage theft bylaw And I have been told to call on People in the following order Kathy, Mandy and pat Kathy Kathy, Mandy and pat have promised to be delightfully brief on this You you have You have a cover memo from us And what we're bringing before you and it's a team of three that has worked on this But we worked on this with a lot of help From people who are advocates of this and have worked with other towns and we're hoping that we'll have a fuller Uh Discussion with evidence of why this is needed So what the three bylaws that we've drafted and you have before you Would basically do is um add to the fact that there's a state wage and Ours law that's often broken and it would Allow the town to be stronger in its ability to enforce because it knew there was a violation and have some Tools to enforce that enforcement and that this is under a general collection of things called wage theft And there are a series of examples that we put in the cover memo But where people are working and they're not being paid women in wage They're not being paid time and a half for overtime. They're paid cash So they never pay pay low taxes. They don't get full credit. They're not paid tips. They were earned I know of personal stories of people working for restaurants or service things where there was an accident On shift and they were discouraged from filing a workers comp claim And they understood their job was potentially at risk So what I want to turn this now over is to my two co-authors to talk about the three bylaws So all of these would these are not legal practices, but they happen So what we're proposing which would help to strengthen our ability to prevent these practices Okay, we are not voting on this bylaw. In fact, if we vote at all it is to refer Mandy Okay, so I'm going to talk about the first two the first one is a responsible employer bylaw it Our proposal is to essentially rescind the one that is currently in the bylaws and replace it with this one And its purpose is basically to ensure that when the town awards contracts for public construction And all we award it only to people who follow the law and only to Contractors who follow the law certify they're following the law and have And have no history in the last certain number of years of not following the law The tax relief one, which is the second one And is a similar one, but instead of when we're awarding contracts for construction It's when we're granting tax relief to people who are constructing Stuff in town We only grant that tax relief to those who follow the law And have no history in the last part certain number of years of not following the law Those are those two Pat And the third one has to do with service industry particularly restaurant workers and salon workers who Are dependent on tips We are again saying That there will be fines and Possible license loss If people aren't paid correctly and I wanted to bring out a couple of Really short facts 82 employee in 2017 82 employers in the restaurant industry received 136 citations for wage theft And and Had to pay in nearly 1,350,000 In fines and restitution Restaurant workers and salon workers are pretty are Really susceptible to wage theft because particularly restaurant workers Their wage Is usually about two dollars and something an hour and then their tips bring them up to minimum wage Which is 725 for restaurant workers That hasn't been increased since 1991 and What's interesting here is what makes it so easy for them to lose their tips Is that they're being there They're being up to that 725 which the employer it looks legit But they haven't given or returned all of the tips that the employee has returned So that Complication makes it harder and I'm taking up too much time Okay, are there questions again, this is a referral it's not to vote on um Pat I move for that we refer the three wage theft bylaws to the gol Yeah It's automatic gols automatic. It's whether the council would want to also refer to When now we just created tso so tso Okay, um The wish of the council It's an automatic referral to gol the question is does it also go to tso? Yes, yes, it should because it will involve the license commission um the board of license commissioners Pardon me Oh Do that for me Okay, me and joe you're supposed to now make the motion I moved her for the wage theft bylaw You know proposal All three of them to the community to the town services and outreach committee with a report back to the town council on March the april 10th So yeah, there's no committee yet. Is that our maybe april 30th? April 30th, okay All right Is there a second second? Any further discussion? It's also an automatic referral to gol. Thank you Okay, all those in favor, please raise your hand and say I I opposed Upstain, okay um We're through the action items We've done appointments And we're up to committee reports crc. Do you have anything else to add tonight? um We are working on A comprehensive housing policy. We'll start discussing a process for Draft and something like that this coming wednesday. We're also working on a process for How zoning bylaws work their way through the system as it were um when They're at the planning board stage where the planning board's ready to act how we're going to do joint hearings What it's going to look like and all of that and so we're discussing that this wednesday too Okay um finance committee Andy Nothing really additional. I'll see some of you. Maybe tomorrow when we meet with uh the auditor Uh go well Nothing further Oka Oka is currently looking at our community activity forms and ways that we could potentially make them more useful So if you have ideas on that you can feel free to send it to the chair of oka I think this still fits within our current charge of regarding appointments And then the second thing is you will potentially see some movement on filling zba vacancies in the next month fingers crossed Percent for art The percent for art ad hoc committee has submitted a final full report And a revised bylaw and it's currently being reviewed by gol Um, there's also a finance committee report that was done that accompanies The revised bylaw and I think We're talking about uh on the next council meeting that the That we would bring that before the full council at least that it was the last time I heard timing from the president But I don't know whether gol will Finish whatever its review is going to be gol needs to wait on legal review Okay, so has it been sent out for a legal review? I've reached out to the town manager and uh, we'll see where it goes Okay moment. I don't know Thank you Okay, so it Unless we don't have the legal review back um At this point we're planning on march 9th, but we'll see okay And once then gol the review has to go back to gol and then so forth um the We also will be adding to this the jcpc for the future um Because it involves obviously members of the council, okay um Town managers report mr. Buckleman. Thank you first shout out to the students who have made it through the some pretty nuanced conversations. Thank you um Few things. Um, I know you were late on this Early voting started this morning precisely at 8 a.m. That uh anybody can vote If you live in the town of amherst or are registered to vote in the town of amherst You can come into town hall from 8 to 4 30 any day this week And tuesday wednesday and thursday if you are you can anybody can go to Bartlett hall at the university of massachusetts from 4 p.m. To 7 30 p.m To vote and so those are two opportunities for early voting. We encourage you to take advantage of it It's very fast and convenient um And there is really no excuse to not vote in the presidential primary if you So choose and one of the as a member of one of the four parties um second is The events that are we're uh events that are scheduled or We anticipate will happen on march 7th formerly known as an event And uh, and we are um Uh prepared for that and are the public safety from the town and with the university have worked very well together and pretty much Following the same routine that we have in the past Census it's really all hands on deck We have multiple players all working to make sure that We the town of amherst is the ninth hardest to count community are going to make sure that everybody who Is a resident of amherst gets counted We have Great leadership from our state representative midi dom. We have a complete count group that includes our town clerk and clerk to the council and Communications manager working on the town our senior senator director is working very hard on it. So A lot of efforts in Different ways to make sure that everybody gets counted for the census. It's very important for the town and for the state Um The also want to point out that uh, we have excellent work from our public safety and health department In cooperation with our institutions of higher education and coley dickinson on the corona virus high level of communication among all the different groups and all the proper precautions are being taken when there's a Possibility of someone having the corona virus because we are an international community And people travel a lot because of the universities in the college the university and the colleges Um, but people are on top of it. Just want to make sure everybody understands that The corona virus is one thing The regular flu influenza is another thing that's really knocking people out and so Please take care to wash your hands, etc Thank you for the timely cough And last I just want to make sure we were we're very big and we're working very hard on the budget Both the capital and the operating budget in preparation for our delivery to the council in a timely manner Thank you um Any questions of the town manager regarding his report comments All right, then moving on to town council comments. Let me just state as I have said earlier. I will be polling for both the New committees and the newly charged committees And I will also be polling for liaisons. The committee appointments are ones that I may have to come and talk to each of you based on how many people want to be on which committees But also, um On the liaisons, it's a recommendation to the council for you to act on I will bring that forward for our next meeting on the 9th Huh? if referred Um We do on our next agenda item March 9th, we do have the hearing on lincoln avenue at 6 30 and If it is prepared I'm sorry You said the hearing was at 6 30 isn't the hearing at 6 on Athena no, it's been posted at 6 30 Thank you. I would have moved it forward, but we said it would be 6 30. So We're going to leave it there. Um and percent for our bylaw if It is ready for voting any other comments from counselors. Yes Are we thinking of starting that meeting early and then just going to the hearing at 6 30 I was waiting to see what the agenda would look like, which I will know by the end of this friday When we meet to work on the agenda If it's a lengthy agenda, then i'm going to suggest that we actually meet early And then just start the hearing at 6 30 Alyssa I just want to put in a plug for considering starting early Because a hearing might normally have started early and I don't I think I would have predicted a two hour discussion tonight, but I don't think everybody did or they wouldn't have thought We were leaving at 10 o'clock tonight Two hours on our committee reorganization. So just depending on what's coming up. I think if we all can make six I Would love to get some stuff done before the hearing. Okay. Thank you any further Councilor comments at this time Any topics not reasonably anticipated is there a motion to adjourn? Is there a second second all those in favor raise your hand and say aye. Aye Opposed abstain I'm being funny