 So, let us compare the centralized and decentralized systems as a kind of quickly as a kind of policy. So, this is a typical sovereign statement planned which is actually highly demanding on investments, you need much capital to come into that, it demands land, you need a lot of land because it is the aeration that is kind of happening there. And it also needs management capacity, you know it needs kind of trained and educated kind of manpower to kind of you know run it. And even if you have all this it is an end of the pipe solution, anybody wants to comment on that word, it is an end of the pipe solution, yeah so that is why you need trained knowledge, I am not critiquing, I am telling what are the demands of that system. So, the point is you know what is the end of the pipe solution, yeah so that means you know the entire waste has to come to one point, yes it is not you know because you are kind of centralizing it. So, the calculations tell that 70 percent of the cost is for connecting sewers, it is not for the planned. And I will tell you tomorrow the kind of you know what are the kind of dangers of that also you know the planned versus the sewer kind of an issue. So, the point is that so you are not acknowledging the pollution, the more the pollution the merrier because you have pumping stations anyway it will reach the last point. So you do not have an awareness about pollution when you have a end of the pipe solution, you think that you know everything can be brought here it can be treated. So, nobody takes responsibility of their own pollution because they think that flush and forget. So this is it, it is very convenient, you can flush and forget that is the one issue. And it is transported long distances, treated well, it has improved the public health in European towns, capital energy and skilled intensive, but it is available by national and overseas funding. And you have you may get ready made consultants also, so if you are international financial institutions funding it, you have ready made consultants who will come and give you the plan of this also. So it is that way it is very attractive to an urban local body if you get that. And then it is perceived to be the ideal solution globally. So that means you know it is attractive for politicians if he brings in a super treatment plan, it is very good for contractors who will build it and then it is very good for the engineers who will facilitate that, isn't it? So everybody loves a good STP, nobody will be against that, whoever will be taking the decisions. But there are disadvantages, one is that you know your technology choice and related decisions are always made at the national level or at the state level, it is never learned at the kind of a local level. Now with decentralization it is slowly picking up like you know urban local bodies also can be taken, it is very costly and it can lead the governments to indebtedness which also I will be mentioning tomorrow. All these issues we will be kind of you know discussing tomorrow, so I am not going into that. What could be the kind of problems in at the level of governance of a centralized you know solution. Then we have something called the emergent solutions which you know I did not actually mention in our European experience, what is happened is that you know this mainstream solutions that became very costly. So in Europe and US what is happening is that you know they are trying to recycle these waste also, recycle it into agriculture, recycle it into other you know non-human kinds of uses and things like that. So there is a kind of there is a neo centralized solutions which actually address the problem of recycling. And then the last point is that you know there are emergent decentralized solutions which actually tells that you do not have to take the you know waste anywhere, can you do it at the point itself, treating at the point itself. So it is called the on-site sanitation systems OSS. So these are, so what are the advantages of this? One is you know it prioritized treatment where it is created, like septic tank is an example of you know an on-site sanitation system. If you have a good septic tank then you do not need to kind of take it to anywhere else. Like if you segregate your solid waste there itself, can the organic be treated in your own home and can the plastics be kind of taken to somewhere and you know kind of get recycled also you know. So you do not have to have big systems to kind of do that. So some systems use kind of you know kind of use a lot of you know there are the two things that you have to kind of now familiarize it. One is grey water, one type of water is grey water, grey water is water from bathroom, kitchen all those kinds of things and black water is water that is coming out of the toilet. So in a centralized system you need a cocktail, you kind of get it all together because you need a lot of water because your carriage is through water carriage, the technology is a water carriage technology. So you need a lot of water, so there is a lot of wastage of water also when you bring these systems together. So can you kind of you know treat them separately is one question. So if black water is treated in a very good septic tank and if grey water is treated you know it does not mean much treatment actually. It needs a kind of settling and some kind of you know filtration and then it can be openly kind of go into the, so this actually kind of if you separate the flows you know it can actually make the treatment much more easier and less costly also. And it can be designed for small scale so it can be flexible and it can be contextually adapted systems and you know actually in the NUSP, National Urban Sanitation Policy for the first time government actually promotes these kinds of systems and there is you know so there is a lot of you know and then there is a systems approach also where the flow from one stream can actually kind of get into another stream also like you know the like what he was telling about you know the FSTP if it treated well it can go into agriculture and you know so those kinds of possibilities are also there you know you are solid waste if it gets into you know biogas your fuel consumption you know your CNG consumption also can come down. So it is no longer a waste it becomes a resource. So those are the possibilities that we are talking about in emergent solutions you know why I am telling this is you know it is also something to do with the period that we are living in also you know in the 50s and 60s it was a lot of optimism with the industrial revolution everything has to be big and everything has to be expensive and you know Ford is kind of production technologies also you know where Ford discovered that you know there can be big production systems there could be big kind of you know what you call where centralized systems can be there labor can be you know given a middle class kind of a you know status all this but over a period of time those production systems have crumpled now it is all very decentralized systems a car is produced a tire is produced somewhere you know your gear is produced somewhere and then it is flexible production and so labor is informalized you know so that is the way you know the production systems are moving also. So that is the first problem with you know the kind of not industrial technologies post industrial technologies are emerging second environment in the old production system environment was not a major kind of an issue so with the environment awareness we are interested in sustainability and the third element is affordability here the state or the industry or somebody has to really invest and in the in the other one we can have more affordable technology so affordability and sustainability becomes two major you know kind of pillars of your thinking my generation did not have to think about it but your generation definitely has to think about these issues also when we talk about development so and that becomes this you know then this decentralized systems become much more attractive than you know whatever we are talking about. So these systems are mostly individual units and scaling up needs more institutional innovations you know which we will be talking about later there are only a few service providers so how do you kind of train others that is that is a challenge that we have and then you know this is also septic smart is a very interesting thing you know 2016-17 I spent one year in University of Berkeley so the week I went there that is a septic smart week in September in US because they found that you know they cannot afford these kinds of big systems for example there was a you know a professor who actually calculated in the next five years how much investment do you need to kind of you know rehabilitate your systems your big systems you know it is actually 3.6 trillion dollars you need you need 3.6 trillion dollars to kind of make your water and sanitation systems better why you have invested your technology you are locked in your technology to that and we have locked in only 16 percent in India 33 percent in class 1 and 2 cities we found if you take the entire Indian scenario we have only 16 percent of those kinds of things that means we have 84 percent more scope to get into sustainability sustainability and affordability that means we can leapfrog to sustainability towel chatham in Malayalam we can leapfrog to sustainability we do not have to go through the kind of problems that they are facing you know like industrial agriculture it is actually facing a lot of problems green revolution agriculture industrial agriculture is facing a lot of problems and people are painstakingly coming to organic agriculture by subsidies and things like that our agriculture is mostly organic so why should we go there and then come back you know so that is one thing that your generation should be thinking about also you know my generation did not have the kind of possibility to think like that because we have only one kind of a thinking which we were taught you can actually think about sustainability and affordability which will give you totally different solutions so you can leapfrog into sustainability where the Americans will take hundred more years to kind of do that so we do not have to become us in the next hundred years and think another hundred years to get into sustainability because by the time they are already into thinking about sustainability you understand so that is where these possibilities are there these kinds of technologies but it needs many other things you know you need local capacity building you need local institution building you need a lot of behavioral changes and cooperation you need local regulation compliance you know so all this we will be talking about in the Aleppo case how we are trying to address these issues to make it work it is not as easy as the other one if you need an STP here tomorrow ADB or you know JICA will give you a funding consultants will come from Delhi plan it all for you but here you do not have money you do not have the technology ready by technology you do not have any consultants and you and but you have local materials and all to kind of build that you know so how do we kind of proceed that is the question that we are going to ask so this is the exercise which also we do not need to do now but list out the you know list out the advantages and disadvantages of centralized and decentralized approaches to sanitation second have you seen any decentralized interventions in neighborhood or anywhere who is planning sanitation in your town I think the last question can be very interesting question who is planning sanitation in your town municipality municipality anybody else municipality is planning panchayat is planning group C even idea who is planning sanitation exactly yeah development authority you are a planner town planners yes today plan is the question what infrastructure what infrastructure but then why are these water body so unclean if we are doing planning so we will talk about this tomorrow what is the kind of policy and governance that are there and what are the kind of limitations of that so keep these questions in mind and you know kind of work on it yeah I think you know we will be doing this in a major way tomorrow but quickly to tell you there are certain global discourses you know like SDG you know like sustainable development goals and things like that which comes through government of India international financial institutions there's a state public utility like kerala water authority or board you know so that those are responsible and now according to the current thinking the whole thing should be done by the urban local body which is actually a heavy burden to them they don't have the capacity whereas this public utility like kerala water authority have engineers but they don't have the mandate to do it in a new decentralized panjayatiraj you know nagar palika kind of a context then the problem is that you know this funding actually comes to an SPV special purpose vehicle through consultants and things get problematic that we'll discuss tomorrow so the scope of this is that you know we are asking the question can local academic institutions and NGOs and all help the municipality to plan it that's the challenge that we are asking so this will detail in detail we'll kind of discuss it tomorrow