 Right. Hello. Hello. Hi. Welcome, everybody. And thank you for joining us today. This is the third webinar in our series, Transforming Places with Donut Economics, where we hear directly from change makers from around the world that are putting Donut Economics into practice in their own place. My name is Leonora. I'm the Citizen Regions Lead at the Donut Economics Action Lab. I'm joined here today by my colleague Rob Shorter, our Community and Art Lead. I'm a Macedonian joining this call from London where I live. So I welcome everybody to introduce themselves in the chat. Let us know who you are, where you're joining us from, why you're joining us. So today's webinar will focus on the built environment. Ever since Donut Economics was first published, practitioners from the built environment sector have been exploring the potential of the Donut to guide, to inform, and to inspire spatial projects of all scales, from the design of new buildings or retrofit of old ones, to neighborhood scale urban plans, to spatial strategies for entire towns and cities. And many have already started experimenting with this, learning and innovating alongside us at the Donut Economics Action Lab. And today we're very happy to be joined by two amazing presenters that will be sharing their work, Charlie and Marie, sharing work happening in Oslo and Norway and in Birmingham and the UK. And before that, before I pass on to our presenters, I'll give a very brief introduction to what is emerging and what we're seeing in the world of Donut Economics and the built environment. And as before we're getting started, just a few notes about the webinar. This is being recorded and it will be shared back on our platform. So in case you cannot make it for the full event, you can also see it afterwards. We'll start off with a quick presentation that I'll share and then each presenter will have a presentation of their own, which will be followed by Q&A. So please write your questions for our speakers in the chat throughout the presentations and we'll pick them up following each presentation. But also please share any thoughts, comments, links, experiences, suggestions that you have in the chat as we go ahead. So I will get us started and I'll just share a few slides. So we start with a big question. What does it mean to put Donut Economics into practice in the built environment? What does it mean to bring it into architecture, planning in the way that we design and plan our buildings, our cities, our neighborhood? And this isn't the question that really has a simple or singular answer. It's a question that has an evolving answer that we keep on co-creating and building an understanding of as we're working and learning from so many practitioners and change makers around the world. But it's certainly one that is grounded in the core principles and ambitions of Donut Economics. So designing, building planning with Donut Economics means setting the ambition and the vision to design and plan places that help humanity move towards that safe and just place of the Donut. Helping humanity, you know, meet, helping us meet the needs of all people within the means of the living planet. And when we're talking about place-based initiatives, one of the core frameworks to work with is the unrolled Donut or the four lenses, as we call them. So every place needs to be setting the ambitions to look both at the social foundation and the ecological ceiling while recognizing local aspirations and the global responsibilities of places. So one of the guiding kind of questions and visions for all places become these four questions of the lenses. How can we design places, build places that help all the people of this place thrive? How can this place be as generous as the wildland next door? How can this place respect the health of the whole planet? And how can it respect the well-being of all people? And then we also need to be recognizing that we need to be contributing towards the shift of the dynamics from the visive to distributive and from the generative to regenerative by design. So designing places with Donut Economics mean aiming from the onset to be distributive by design, to share opportunity and value with all those co-created and to be regenerative by design, working with and within the cycles of the living world. And so taking those principles, we are really setting new ambition for those, for practitioners in the built environment, an ambition that matches the challenge of the 21st century as we need to recognize that it is, we need to be moving way past business as usual, where we're kind of have been guided by the question, how much can we get away with? How much do we need to do so that we can continue extracting and doing our projects whilst we still cause social environmental damage? But we also need to be moving towards the right of that screen and moving beyond what we've kind of call now mostly sustainable design guided by the question, how much do we have to do? So what is the minimum we have to do in order to cause no harm? This is no longer enough to just about stay in that safe and just space of the Donut, but not contribute actively towards giving back. So what Donut Economics sets is a higher ambition inviting us alongside many practitioners to move towards regenerative design, to be guided by the question, how much can we possibly do in order to give back to nature, to give back to people, to be nature-positive, climate-positive and actually contributing to the well-being of all people. So these are kind of some of the guiding concepts alongside all the different, all the core principles of Donut Economics and how this turned into different pragmatic ways of working within the built environments takes many different shapes. And I'm just going to share some of the few tendencies of what we're seeing emerge in the built environment and what we're exploring ourselves of different ways to be using Donut Economics. So one is as a guide for setting visions and ambitions for projects and places. So using these guiding principles, using the core lenses as a way to build visions, to set goals, to set ambitions, to think holistically across different social and ecological dimensions and to be thinking forward into the future. So visioning the kind of the, in a holistic way, whether it's a building or a neighborhood or a whole town. And a second way in which the Donut has been used a lot in the built environment and that really resonates with a lot of practitioners is using it as a framework and using the tools as a way to open new ways to engage with communities and stakeholders, new ways to hold conversations that are holistic, that bridge across different themes that invites local communities alongside experts that are keep on, keep us thinking holistically while long as to deep dive into different areas of interest that are creative and playful and easy for people to relate to that can be used to dream up collaborative visions, but also to map existing initiatives in a place, to recognize the different things that are already happening, to map the different types of knowledge that different stakeholders are bringing across the four lenses or across the social and ecological dimensions. And then another way that we see emerging quite a lot is using Donut economics as a way to measure. So work with data and Donut economics to measure, to monitor, to set targets. So understanding what does it mean to be setting indicators across both social and ecological sites in the built environment for different scales for different places. What can we measure to understand how well we're doing right now and what we should be aiming for? What kind of targets can we set? And can we set targets when we're designing new buildings, when retrofitting all ones, when we're dreaming up whole new neighborhoods? What should we be measuring and what should we be aiming for? And how can we be turning the regenerative and distributive by design principles into something that can be measured and monitored throughout time? So these are just some of the ways that people are getting started in the built environment. And I'm sure that this list will only continue to extend and grow and become richer and richer as we move ahead and continue along on this new journey. But I will now actually pass on to our speakers so that we can hear two examples of how this looks like in practice and what kind of deep dives they've taken. I am very happy to be joined firstly by Charlie. Charlie Edmonds is a dark matter designer and an architect at Civic Square. Civic Square is a public square neighborhood lab and creative and participatory platform focused on regenerative civic and social infrastructure within neighborhoods underpinned by the ideas of donor economics. They're based in Birmingham, in the UK. And Charlie, we share the work of working to set an ambition to deeply retrofit a full street in Birmingham. Charlie, the floor is yours. Great, thanks very much. So let me just share this for you guys. Hey, cool. Yeah, so yeah, my name is Charlie. I'm from Civic Square and I think mainly today I'd just kind of like to give a very brief snapshot into what we're doing in Birmingham in terms of how we're trying to develop a model of engaging with the built environment that fits within the sort of framework of the donor and can lead us towards the just transition that we know needs to happen, particularly within our home streets and neighborhoods. So you've already heard a little bit about Civic Square, but yeah, just to sort of reiterate the goal of Civic Square is to create a sort of a kind of civic infrastructure in Ladywood in Birmingham, that is sort of grassroots, provides space for communities and neighbors to learn skills, improve connections and community resilience, and sort of go beyond the typical model of kind of centralized services and amenity that dominate most of our lives in the UK right now. The one way that we are trying to sort of make this happen is all down to where we're based. So we're actually based in these buildings here, which is for tube works, say sort of disused industrial factory in Ladywood and what we're hoping to do is to take a site like this that in various sort of exploitative ways in the past was the heartbeat of sort of Victorian colonial England in the widest band of the world, that pivotal role that was once embodied by this space, we want to try and bring that back in a much more ethical regenerative 21st century way. And in this way, we're hoping that the tube works factory can become the actual embodiment of Civic Square, the actual embodiment of civic infrastructure for a 21st century economy. So this is essentially the sort of core of a lot of the work of our vision, but obviously there's a limit to what you can do just by creating a physical space, one piece of physical infrastructure that can support a community. Everyone who works in the built environment knows that the challenges that we have to face go far beyond a single project and that no single project is ever going to define the entire just transition that we know is needed. So despite that being our sort of long term goal for the site, Civic Square, something like not having a finished building won't stop us. So we do plenty of organizing with neighbors in the space as it currently stands. We organize trips to places like the center for alternative technology to improve skills, knowledge and capacity on the street. And you can see here a few of the various initiatives that Civic Square has launched. So from learning about the built environment to peer-to-peer education networks to research on scaling down the donut to the scale of a neighborhood, we've tried to sort of engage in many different sectors of the work of donut economics at the scale of Ladywood at the scale of the neighborhood. So how does this lead us around to the topic of the built environment more broadly then? Well, one of the main issues that we have in terms of the role of the built environment and climate is that about 40 percent of all emissions come from the built environment in some form. A lot of this in the UK is down to the poor performance of our housing. We have some of the worst energy efficiency standards from all of Europe, and therefore retrofit becomes one of the core focuses of the work that we need to be doing in the UK. So if this is a new term 21, retrofit essentially just means to take an existing building and work on it in a way that improves its performance, improves its energy efficiency, and should also improve the well-being of its inhabitants as a consequence. So to set a sort of level of ambition that we need to be talking about, in Birmingham we need to retrofit two out of every three homes by 2041, which will mean that by the time that I finish this talk we should have retrofitted probably about 20 houses. So that's the level of ambition that we need to be working towards, and right now as I'm sure anyone based in the UK is aware we're not working anywhere near that level of ambition. We also know that housing has a huge amounts of cascading impacts on society, whether it's health of you know living in damp moldy houses that causes us health issues, costs then get taken on to the NHS, whether it's things like the overuse of energy and inefficient housing that then has to be subsidized by government paying to private energy companies. Essentially what we see right now is that the built environment socializes all of the negative impacts of poor housing while privatizing the profits of that system. So within this immensely sort of complex and entangled web how can we try and create a sort of more clear sense of direction and purpose within this world of retrofit and the built environment? What should be a cause that we're campaigning and pushing towards? Well for us it's a reimagining of what we're talking about when we have conversations about retrofit. So as I'm sure many people are aware retrofit currently exists very largely in what's called the able to pay market. So if you have a few you know spare 10, 20, 30 grand lying around maybe then you can do retrofit but otherwise it's few and far between the opportunities for retrofit works. When there have been government programs to support retrofit they've typically been very top-down through things like voucher schemes, a big centralized contractor from another city over would probably come over and do the work you'd likely never hear from them again after that. And this history, this way of carrying out retrofit previously for the men the uptake has been relatively poor and the work has been largely unsuccessful in terms of the level of ambition that we need to be having. So we've been inspired by groups like Carbon Co-op in Manchester who critiqued this typical model and Stroh who implement their own version of a community in grassroots led retrofit initiatives. We are trying to recreate that level of grassroots movement in Birmingham but we're also aware that another problem with the existing model of retrofit is that it could use an atomized health by health basis which neglects the sort of interconnected fundamentally interconnected and entangled nature of the built environment. So that's why as we sort of briefly alluded to earlier we're looking at the ambition of street-scale retrofit rather than individual household retrofit and we're trying to implement this through a grassroots organization of residents, neighbors and built environment and environmental professionals as a sort of insight into what the kind of civic infrastructure that we talk about at Civic Square can do and can implement. The one way that we've been or some of the ways we've been trying to do this is in order to build this sort of movement around retrofit in communities at the scale of a street, one thing we have to overcome is the fact that there's not a very high level of literacy around the built environment and energy use. So in order to try and overcome this we gathered data on the street. We tried to establish people with the what is of their current lives on the built environment so how much space is given over to that garden space, how much space is given over to car parking, how much space is given over to front yards. Also we connected people with other kinds of open data like energy performance certificate. So on the left you can see the typical model of energy performance certificate which is health by health and as you can see the standard performance across Birmingham is not great but on the right you can see a model of a street EPC that we've been trialling which is a system to aggregate household EPCs into the street level. So to look at the street is a collective project which people can work on together moving it away from being an individual health or consumer problem towards a collective social initiative and this also means that you're less likely to have people left behind by the work as well. So these are some of the ways that we're trying to improve people's literacy and comprehension of retrofit which is inevitably an incredibly complex tangled ecosystem of work as you can see illustrated by our partners here at DarkMatterLab. So what we found is that in order to build momentum around these issues it's not just enough to build trust it's not just enough to build literacy but you have to round the topic of retrofit within a larger sort of narrative around how our lives can change more broadly for the better and so that's why we're really sort of inspired and why we try to embody all of the principles of deep retrofit specifically because deep retrofit goes beyond just talking about the building fabric it talks about things like services street infrastructure waste management how we can live within a sort of circular economy in our built environment as well as just improve the energy efficiency of our houses talk to people about adding insulation onto the houses people aren't going to be that excited by that talk to people about transforming their street into a thriving lively space where people can spend time with each other grow food grow flowers these are the things that energize people and bring them on board with the work so in that spirit a lot of the framing of the work we've done on the street has been to borrow Rob Hopkins phrase moving from what is to what it so the what is is captured by the research we've done the open data we use and share with residents giving them a firm grounding in how their street is currently operating and then the what if allows us to connect our neighbors with sort of inspiring global precedents from sort of you know taking cars off the streets in the in the Netherlands to super blocks in Barcelona things like this so helping us to kind of collectively imagine what a street like the one we work with in Birmingham might become if we pursued retrofit deep retrofit in a collective way and transform and sort of reimagine the street for a more regenerative future and so this is kind of the question that defines a lot of the work of the neighborhood transitions portfolio in civic square so the question is what if the climate transition and retrofit of our homes and streets were designed owned and governed by the people who live there and this was the sort of main prompt that we used to launch our recent festival this this past summer called retrofit reimagined so this event sought to convene built environment practitioners residents organizers policymakers as many people as broad of an umbrella as we can achieve from across the UK and beyond the UK to talk about these issues of how we need to shift our framing and our ambition of retrofit and we began that with six of our own shifts that we've been trying to embody moving from individual to collective out by how to street by street fragmented to accessible centralized to distributive short-term to long-term and extractive to regeneratives so this festival was a really amazing way of bringing everyone literally under the same tent because it was hosted in 10 and it was an amazing intersection of people organizing where they are around the topic of retrofit and people who spend their lives working on this topic in more of a professional background or a sort of decision-making context. It was covered quite well in some magazines from the Architects Journal to Architecture Today and the Architects Climate Action Network also released a report on it so if you are interested in learning more about the festival please look it up. Every one of the corpse was recorded very meticulously and is available on YouTube so definitely go check that out if you want to dive deeper into anything that I've spoken about today and so essentially what came away from this festival because it wasn't just about sharing these ideas and celebrating work and connecting people it was also about trying to understand or gain a certain level of consensus around people working in this space on how we need to shift the work of retrofit going forwards and from my perspective one of the key shifts in how we think about this work and how we think about the existing built environment through a framework like Donut Economics is we need to take this existing framing which is that retrofit and the built environment represents a technical challenge that must overcome social problems. We need to take that and shift it to a technical past that depends on social movement and the sort of really key distinction here is that it's not a technical challenge because we've had the technology for decades. If you go to the center for alternative technology in Wales you'll see that they've been retrofitting buildings, they've been putting solar panels on roofs for years and years and years and years so the technology is there. What it fundamentally comes down to is an issue of governance and an issue of the social movement necessary to drive and motivate governance for a just transition that retrofits a huge part of. So when it comes to thinking about this through the lens of governance and social organizing at the scale of the street one of our biggest challenges then becomes the fact that people are very time poor, people are struggling much much more than they have been for a long time due to things like inflation, energy costs, childcare all of these issues that confront us in everyday life that is a barrier to the social movement necessary to drive for this kind of governance. So we see the street scale and this kind of access to common space and a common movement as a way of taking what is currently an individualized time and energy deficit and sort of bringing that together into a surplus of the commons and we were able to see this in a really great way on the street through our own organizing. So to give you a very you know micro example of this when we meet with neighbors on Link Road the street we're working with for this retrofit project they've said to us several times that they never would have been able to get involved with this kind of work but because we're doing it at the street scale it means that they're able to balance and share things like childcare responsibilities so something that would have been an individual deficit of time and energy has become a surplus due to the sort of strategy of doing this work collectively at the scale of the street so that's that's sort of what we mean you know as a material example of what we mean when we talk about going from the deficit of individualism to the surplus of commons. And so one way that we're trying to further the development of this kind of governance on the street this kind of social movement that we're starting to see formed through this kind of work is we recently launched something called the Link Road Dream Fund which builds on a program that Civic Square launched during COVID which was the original Dream Fund which was a sort of way of supporting artists during lockdown. The Link Road Dream Fund is specifically a micro funding initiative that allows residents to access small pots of money to implement small scale projects changes on their street and so residents have proposed things like water capture, things like parklets, sort of public gardens. All of these things are to be held in the commons on the street and in this way we can see that through a tangible process of implementing these projects socializing them on the street and maintaining them the kind of governance and the kind of social movement that we know will be necessary for the larger retrofit work can begin to form through these initiatives. And so you can see sort of some of the beginnings of these projects here you can see some of the ways that we've been working with neighbors and trying to build this kind of literacy and knowledge from simply demonstrating solar technology to using thermal cameras to understand building performance. This is the sort of on the ground organizing that goes into this kind of work and so yeah a long-term vision is maybe more medium-term vision is that through this kind of hyper local governance this social movement we can raise through philanthropic funding the resources necessary to retrofit link road this street in a way that is governed by the people who live there. In that way we can build a really incredible demonstrator of what it means to do a locally led street retrofit project and we can then bring this as a demonstrator to any new incoming government that may arise in the next few years and look specifically at how we can show this civic initiative as an alternative to typical public private partnerships. So rather than working with a big centralized top-down contractor why not work with streets neighborhoods communities to retrofit their own homes and streets because this demonstrator we're hoping will prove that it's not only possible but incredibly effective as well as just possible and hopefully that will lead us to the sort of just transition and built environment within the donut that we know we need to be moving towards. So yeah I'll leave it there I don't think I've gone too far over time so hopefully that's okay on the deal and that. Thank you thank you Charlie thanks so much for sharing that and for demonstrating what what regenerative and distributive bed design looking deeply at a street level can can look like we're a bit over time so I'll pick up one questions and maybe you can pick up the rest in the chat while my presence there are a few questions coming in one is one I'll quickly ask is the Civic Square example requires a lot of care and input from city industry shortly to reach the goals of the donut there needs to be a more passive adoption how have you considered scalability? Yeah so maybe that question came in before the very end maybe it was yeah the the yeah the idea is that building on a lot of work that we've seen from others particularly Commonwealth two words if you know about them we're building on this idea of an alternative to a public private partnership they call it a public commons partnership we use the phrase of public civic partnership but they all kind of revert to the same thing looking at how public bodies local councils government can work with civic institutions to to do this work effectively and like you said to have that ambition that national ambition and scalability. Thanks Charlie and I'll pass on to Mary now but if you can pick up the the rest of the questions that are coming in chat that would be amazing so Marie Interlied Winsfield is a sustainability director at Half Eindome that's Oslo Port's own development company designed with a social mission to create a sustainable fjord city and values for the city harbour and society so Marie will specifically share the work of Half Eindome with donut economics as the basis for urban development of Grönel Kaja a new fjord district in Oslo of over 200 000 square meter. Marie the floor is yours and we can. Yes thank you very much Leonora so we had some technical issues I changed to the mode so is it okay? Yes yeah it works as it is now and then I'll just leave it like that yes go for it very well okay thank you so much thank you for the invite very honored to be able to present some of our our insight and our work and receipt for for Grönel Kaja in Oslo in Norway and also thank you Charlie very inspiring to hear what you are doing there so yeah I felt like well I would like to go there and see it and kind of meet the people over there. So I work for Half Eindome Half Eindome is a property development company fully owned by the port of Oslo which is part of Oslo municipality so we developed the former harbour areas and the profit we generate goes to develop a climate friendly and sustainable port and harbour and as well as for people there to enjoy so we our main is to develop the seafront for anybody and as well to modernize the sustainable port for the port of Oslo yes so our social mission is to create the sustainable city with value for the city and the harbour and for everyone living here and we shall maximize the economic value creation as well as the social utility of what we are creating and to give you just a broad overview of the work we are in this is how it looked like in the harbour near by harbour Björvika in 2001 it was said to be a traffic machine and it was really a barrier as you can see between the city itself and the seafront so there were some brave politicians back then and others that will take the chance and fortunately this work then started now Björvika is now the heart of Oslo new heart of Oslo is many heart in Oslo with meeting places and also culture for work for residents and just come together and we have I don't have this part of the of this development only 66% of this area however we are currently only half way so it's time to figure out how to improve and learn from from what we have been doing so far and you can see here we have just a little figure of the the beach in Oslo it's a new beach in Oslo opened in 2021 last year and it's for everyone it's free it's public this is part of what what we are doing for public so now grönli kaja is that the last piece of a puzzle of of the fjord by and it's as Eleonora said it's 200 000 square meters and so it's quite a unique development project and we want to use what we have learned from the the later development but also what's to come it's the east and most the part of Björvika and it lies between Ekeberg and Lohavn and we have also a river coming up to Alma the Alma river and so it's all the the whole part of this is is what it's going to be developed it's a big area and it's consisting of over 1500 residents thousands of workplaces and also open public areas free areas and the one kilometers of Havn the Permanada fjord as a port promenade and going alongside all the way here which is also free and for public and it needs to be developed in the most social social way so as the background from the UN reports we have seen that 17 percent of the global emissions are linked to urban areas which gives us a very great unique opportunity to be part of the necessary transition and the change on how we develop build and also plan for living our lives and to achieve this we have to find out what do people want what do they want and we have approached communities and we have had an extensive participatory process where we have talked with and indicated people that that are not so usually heard like preschool children youths and elderly and people with other disability as well and it's a result of the 10 recommendations for the fjord city and the east sites then we see that this is a it's a very big project and therefore there we have invited 16 architect teams to to find out the best way on how to develop this and many many good solutions have come after that and we are still evaluating all the 16 teams it's a very great task even to evaluate they have done a great work all of them and they got also to know about our work with the donut economics when they were giving the task so they had the insight from our work with the grönli kaja and donut economics in grönli kaja as we call it tag which means dough in english so the findings from our dough so far is to try to find out the good life within how we can create the good life within the planetary boundaries and this is then some of the grönli kaja's neighborhoods and the neighbors and we want to stress the importance that some of our neighbors are also in the sea they are can be fish or other species so a grönli kaja we wanted to develop it according to the doughnut principles and that's that that should be the prerequisite for the growth and development for a fair and benefit a larger part of the city's population for the people people for the recreation for play and for work and for people living there and how to facilitate public health that it's also rooted in culture and the history of the place so that's why hava and donut used the doughnut economics as a fundament for urban development of grönli kaja so together with the future built been building council in norway and the rodeo architects and the researchers and vices from a lot of different companies and also from public has been part of this insight so far so it's it's a great communication and contribution and from a lot of different participants so what we did then looked at the doughnut economics theory and we looked at the creating city portrait and then based on that we we did a lot of testing and we tried it out and then we made our own recipe yeah so leonora has gone through this as an introduction to you just to see how we come to our own recipe we as you see here we looked into all the four lenses of both on the local local scale and the global scale for the on the social social benefits and affecting and also the economic effecting and then we looked at what is what is what all all these different issues will be most will be most effective when we when we develop grönli kaja or be affected from and that's why it's been quite a thorough process to go into it and this is an example on how we worked to see how the consequence for a harbor promenade which i said it's going to be over a thousand meter of harbor promenade for which is supposed to be the axis from the eastern side of the city to the fjord so it's very important that we manage to develop this harbor promenade for everyone and also that things are happening there that is free and it's it's interesting and it's it's going to be a social place by itself so if you see here that the potential is light green this is only a brief example it's it's when we did this work we had a lot of lot of these stickers so this is just some extracts just to show you how we worked and what kind of meaning it gave for us in in planning so we looked at like the potential for for the access to the fjord from the social scale and local social is very important but then we have the the red here is is representing kind of challenges that we saw because it can be conflicting with interest with visitors coming there and residents but we also see that when we know that now we can plan it better and then we see also on the ecological side that it's a great potential to regenerate the nature and especially the marine life if we do it right which is of course a challenge but we can also step wrong and then it can even make the also fjord which is a dying fjord it's not dead but it's dying and we can make it worse if we do it wrongly so it's very important that we know this and balance it and then of course when we build a prominent like that it's it's it's needed that we have a lot of resources materials to to actually build it which then again extract important resources from elsewhere and also will create the energy use and and also carbon emissions now that also in the global scale which is what's maybe for us the most new to kind of think in a global social scale how the materials we are using will maybe affect people elsewhere in the world where they are producing it exploiting the the materials and producing them so it's also quite this was very important for us to look into how to yeah how to to see that these different consequences now it's not like we want to choose one or the other it's more that we have this is was a way for us to understand that it is a lot of potential but it's also a lot of challenges and if we want to to do this development we we need to address them as early as possible and then we might find good solutions that actually can give us the means to to do it so that we can achieve the access to the fjord from the eastern side of the city which the promenade is is the main reason for and at the same time if we build it with maybe reused materials or climate friendly materials it can be a good development so out of this work we we did a lot of we made a receipt and and one of the most important thing is that you just have to start that's number one you just really have to start to the the process and then you establish an interdisciplinary cooperation group you create an old pool and you use the four lenses out of that you develop a sustainability strategies that's where we are now we are using all this insight now to make our own sustainability strategy for for the nickel and then of course how physically this will these strategies also will influence the project so this is more the detailed part of the recipe so as I said the the thing is that we need to start early we started actually after the planning process had started and also the participatory process had started and we would recommend everyone who wants to just push on the bottom and start it as early as possible it's it's nothing just just to get going and then you learn and just to get the insight or everything I think that's the most it's not it wasn't too late for us and I think you can even start later but the our experience is that you should start as early as possible so yeah to establish a group for interdisciplinary cooperation as I said we had working with with different green building council and future build them and a lot of advisors and also with the public and that's can different from from development to development how and who you will who you will try to establish as a working group I think it's good to have one kind of a group but then you need to be sure that you you're sharing all the time and maybe other groups are coming along and being interested that you should take on board yes to create a knowledge pool we realized even though we had a lot of researchers and advisors so from different fields we we still found that we needed more knowledge space and we needed to bring more people in and so we invited people for like inside seminars on topics that we did not have inside in the groups like on like on the global social issues how to how to to see true that we are actually buying like the building materials in in in a proper way so that could be on material for someone that could be on social issues so just to try to to make sure that you whatever you you think you don't have the knowledge on find find it out and then you bring on the ones you you think you need yes and yes then of course you sit down in the in the groups and you work with the four lenses which is really an active face and we were using you're doing a lot of work during lockdown and then of course in in it's more web-based and we used to work in middle platform and it worked very well and we also had the opportunity to do something physical and that's of course a different way so I think both both the digital version and the physical version has its upsides so maybe that was a good thing and that you actually could do it in both but try to make it very very organized and make sure that you do that you have that you have right reports from every workshop because it's a lot of discussions a lot of insights coming through these workshops and it's very important to do not lose it so then this is where we are now we are using all the insights we have like we have a report here and it's an extract of our development work on 20 sites and there are appendix on hundreds of pages in according to that so it's a lot of insights to get into and we haven't translated it all yet to English but we are we are we want to do that so that will come later and for unfortunately there are not so many people speaking Norwegian yeah so this is where we are now we are developing a sustainable strategy based on all the insights and all the all that we have had from the work and how we can bring this further to to make it really work as a circular development of Grand Lecaio and cost both the social faces and also their ecological faces and so yeah and this is now the last of course how would these strategies can influence the project so this is also a bit like we have seen from the the 16 teams that are doing the had done the work on trying to to figure out how we can plan um Grand Lecaio and some of them have had quite good examples an innovative project on how we can reach kind of a more circular way of building Grand Lecaio but also how it will work for people there how they can have a more shared community based living approach there and how their lives will be in a more circular economic new way of living and so we had a lot of good good examples and ideas so we want to make sure that the neighbors meet and Grand Lecaio and they want to stress the part of the nature is a neighborhood some of the innovating ideas that so far have come out it's it's maybe we can use upcycle the construction from our dark offshore industry to to build this part of Grand Lecaio that would be great it's a lot of platforms out there that are not in use anymore going for demolishing so we are looking at how to maybe upcycle them not to melt it and use a lot of energy but use part of them as the as it is so that's very interesting and we see that if if you can manage that we can really save a lot of carbon emissions so we want to go further we have also the philip star it's a next development area in a slow big area coming up and yeah since i'm here also we promise to share our insight even though i say it's not in English all of it yet but we really want to share we share it all to everyone who wants to have the insight in Oslo and in Norway and we share it to everyone else and maybe together we deal it and find a way how to translate all of the insights that we have and we want this to be a huge that it's for everyone and every time of the year not just the summertime but that it's also going to be public spaces and inviting places for for everyone that's really a high social goal that we have for the Grand Lecaio and how that can be strengthened through our work that everyone can now know that you're there so yes thank you within the time frame so thank you thank you Mary thank you very much we have just we're a bit over there i'll pick up pick up one quick question but then i'm sure that people can also follow me work and hopefully more and more pieces of it will be translated into English as well we have a Andrea says king what do you think it takes to implement these great ambitions from the strategy it's a big question yes maybe you can you can think of some core insights in terms of what are some believers of of transformative change so so the question is how we can yeah how to turn the strategy into actual implementation so that that is actually where we are now we are making this strategy and then we are going to see how we can implement it but i think already we see that it's it's the way you are actually planning how we are planning to build and and how you are planning the this part of the city to be later i mean how how we plan it to work for for all the the people who who we think that should be invited in here um so it's it's actually that that it's that combination between the social issues and how we can physically make the means to to make this work for people that can be how the the houses are housing are developed that it's more planned for sharing which can now be the face of looking at how can different models for for housing be developed and where you can share that's both good for maybe the show social interaction but it's also good for climate because we can then be more efficient with the the resources used and when when when green liqa is is developed and it's people are moving in and they're working there and people are visiting green liqa i think thank you maria and i think i see a common and of a common thread between your work and charlie's work in that we need to be recognizing and donut economics in a way helps us to do this that we maybe shouldn't be thinking anymore in terms of trade-offs between social and environmental benefits but rather co-benefits in how to make a climate transition whilst benefiting the social well-being of of everybody i we we have to uh wrap up now uh i'm afraid so thank you very much charlie thank you very much maria for joining us thank you for everybody that joined us today if you are this is an area of work in which we'll kind of continue to explore a deal with everybody else if you're working in the built environment in architecture planning and you're starting to use donut economics in any way feel free to reach out you have my my email in the chat and and deals contact form as well and i hope we continue to have these discussions and kind of jointly explore what it means to be regenerative and distributive by design in our uh in these disciplines uh so thank everybody and have a have a great rest of day we'll have these uh webinars shared online as well for those of you that that want to come back to it and along with the work of and links to charlie's and maria's work