 the rest of us as well, dare I say, who are not so young as well, then the global social structures collapse and things just go very badly wrong. So it's absolutely incumbent that we find the right people, we find the right jobs for them, we find the right jobs for them later in their careers as well. And I know that a big part of this report, which I'm just going to show you a few snippets from as well, is about re-skilling. And one message that I know the World Economic Forum wants to make as well, and it's not, you have your education, you go off and work, it's about the lifelong process as well. And I think this is absolutely fascinating and that's why I'm really glad that some of you have turned up for it. In fact, you've all turned up, so that's brilliant. We have a great panel for you and I'll tell you who we've got in a few moments time. But as I say, they've given me the clicker. So why don't we just see what the survey on the jobs report says in 2023. This one moves a lot as well and I think I have to click it again, so let's just see what happens. So 673 million employees were part of the larger survey. Now, I think this is fascinating. Great. 69 million jobs will be created over the next five years driven by new technologies, green transition, agriculture as well, by the way. But now, I think that's quite a challenging number. 69 million created. 83 million jobs lost. And that, as you know, is a net loss of, because you're all very smart and you know your numbers, 14 million as well. But the displacement, the changes going on. What was that number there? It was a quarter of jobs expected to change in the next five years, some 23% by 2027. And if we extrapolate that across the entire global workforce, that just already underlines my point about reskilling at various stages in your career as well. I can move on because I'm doing very well on the clicker. I've actually done nothing wrong with this yet so far. So I'm rather proud of myself, whatever else happens in this panel. So look, as I say, green transition, technology, but the economic outlook is certainly moving as a negative driver at the moment. And that is something, of course, that a minister such as the gentleman to my right, must contend with as well, despite all the exciting things that are going on, structure as well. Technology, surely that is absolutely fascinating. The fact that we've gone from, now what was it it said in the report, I have to remember here, I should be looking at my notes, robot revolution to AI Armageddon as well. And let's be honest about it. We've told our young people, I've told my daughters, you've got to learn about programming, you've got to learn your math, you must be STEM advocates as well. And yet, is there a computer out there in a few years that won't be able to do it better than them? So are we taking our children down the wrong path? I don't know the answers. Maybe some of my panelists do, maybe some of you do as well. And by the way, you will be getting involved later on. If you want your dinner, and I've told that wef is putting on a wonderful stuff before you after this panel as well, then you must get involved. And I want to see lots of hands going up as well. And there will be a mic going around in the last 10 minutes of this, if I stop talking. Very quick, I've been told by the World Economic Fund, they didn't say it like this, but they said these are the boring ones. So there's lots of data on these as well. Fastest growing jobs. Well, there it is, AI machine learning, sustainability specialist, business intelligence analysts, information security analysts, top four or so. And you all know this, bank tellers. I mean, when's the last time we went into a bank as well, related clerks, postal service clerks, cashiers and ticket clerks as well, data entry clerks as well, the kind of jobs that are just being replaced very, very quickly. And the last board I have for you here is the largest growth versus the largest declining jobs. So these are the largest errors rather than the fastest as well. Right, good. That all went well. Let me just tell you who the, this excellent panel is here that we've got to discuss these key issues here. So to my right, to my immediate right, I'm delighted to say that we have Eunice Securi, who is the Minister of Economic Inclusion, Small Businesses, Employment and Skills, joining us from Morocco as well. So thank you very much indeed for joining us as well. To his right is Claudia Azevedo, the CEO of Sonne. Nice to see you. I know that you have some very interesting ideas on the green transition as well. I'm poor old Sander at the end here. Sander van der Noorten. He thought he had to speak to me on live programming today earlier on. He's the CEO and chair of the Executive Board of Rangestat as well. So I've got a sneaky idea of what he's going to be saying as well. But look, I have got some questions for you all, panellists, but I just want actually, before even do that, I just want your reactions and I'll go from my immediate right down to the end of the, to Sander at the end. What your impressions are about what the World Economic Forum has found in their survey, sir? Well, I think that first of all, thank you for the invitation and for the panel. The first thing that it seems that we are facing unprecedented changes. And I'm not sure our governments are prepared in terms of structures of institutional architecture so that they can run quickly successful strategies and policies that can be implemented with partnerships, whether public public or public private partnerships. And I'm not sure the cycles through which we operate are appropriate and will help us face these challenges. The second thing is that it seems to me that there are four layers that need to be managed in parallel. At the very individual level, every person has to craft here or her own path, a long life learning path. These people need to have tools, vision, projection, and need to be accompanied. At the level of the organizations, the companies, the corporations, they need to develop their very specific talent management programs that cost a lot. They cost a lot because you're reluctant. Who are you going to retain? Because it costs you. What is strategic for you? And the markets will operate and will take those. I mean, you can have different strategies. The third level is at the level of the governments. You need to launch successful policies where you need to choose a posture, a positioning so that you need to define exactly to which extent are you going to operate in the areas where you have no operators? Where are you going to just accompany the policies? So it's a tradeoff of posture versus budget versus feasibility and operating capacity. And the fourth and last thing is that the international and cross country levels, because by the end of the story, these shortages of skills and this new interdependency in terms of production machine and skills, they need to be to some extent regulated. Otherwise, it's the jungle. Those who are who are able to provide a good job, good salaries, good social protection, good conditions of life, will just take the best and leave the others with poor resources, which can generate other conflicts that will have to be of migration, etc. So I think that it's not an easy task for governments, for companies and for individuals to tackle these issues, but we need to try. Otherwise, we'll have no chance to. So you've already raised some important questions. I will come back to you on every single one of those as well. Claudia, again, I know you've got some very important contributions in your sphere of expertise, especially on green transition. But again, what have you seen in this survey that actually tallies with or you disagree with in terms of what you're seeing in your business and the way that you're conducting your business? But what caught my eye was the very big mismatch between the skills that we have today and on the list that are jobs that are going to lose employability and the new ones that you need. And it's not you don't need these skills in the future, you need them now, right? Yeah. And so, you know, it is actually slowing down. The fact that we don't have these skills is slowing down our, for example, our green transition. Europe says that it needs one million more engineers to do the solar panels that it should be doing now. And so this huge mismatch between what's the skills we have today, and the skills that we I was going to say for the future, but not for now. And how can how can we as companies and as governments tackle tackle this issue? And it's it's a big issue because I can in Europe only 50% of the population have some basic digital skills. It's a huge job. And it has to be really done now. And so that's really what caught my eye is that we know everything. We know the jobs that we're going to lose. We know the jobs that we need. And somewhere we have to make it work. It's no great mystery what we're missing. Good spot. And it's up for 2050 for today. Yeah. And not only we have to respond to that, we have to respond to the challenge that actually other geographic jurisdictions, you mentioned the million engineers missing as well, are gaining the capital that other areas are moving quicker than those of us in this room who are representing Europe. Sander, again, I'll come back to individual questions again. But just on this survey as well, what what strikes you sir? Yeah, very, very much along the same lines. I would say specialization and equity specialization because the world needs specialized skills. You could you could see on the list. There was a lot of time the word specialist or analyst. On the on the other side, there was admin clerk. So specialization and moving up in the value chain in terms of skills is really important at an individual level at the company level at the country level. So I agree with what the minister said. Equity is talent is scarce. So we cannot afford to leave anyone behind. Everybody needs to participate. Because we need all hands on deck to do the work that needs to be done. And of course, it's the right thing to do to treat everybody equally to give people equal opportunity, etc, etc. Because I think in the previous waves, and you know, we've gone through a big globalization wave, we I think we have learned one very important thing is in we left too many people behind. If you read the stories about the industrial towns all all around the globe, people were left behind. And it created a very sad situations. And that is something we we it's it's a first of all, the right thing to make sure that that doesn't happen again. And it is needed because we need all hands on deck. Okay. Look, you've all piqued my interest. So I'm going to rip up what I was going to ask them all and just start as is my one. The web can't get me off for the next 35 minutes. I'll just carry on. So so so why don't I just kick off with you then. So are we in a post globalization era then if you said globalization left people behind, and now we need to think differently. Have we moved on because you're talking about localization, we know supply chains are changing on a global basis. Are geopolitical issues actually creating an environment where actually it could be much better on the employment front because actually we we rediscover our supply chains more locally. No, I think if there's one word that we have learned of the COVID era, it's it's resilience. And companies don't want to be too dependent on a single country, a single supplier, a single source of supply. And so if I say if I talk supply, I mean, that can be physical, but it can also be knowledge. For instance, we have quite a few people in India. There's a big group of technology people, BPO people. It's it's phenomenal. But clients are now starting to ask, well, that's great. But do we really want to be 100% dependent? Or should we look beyond India? For instance, to Morocco, or to Latin America, or to Vietnam? So resilience and in sort of independence, I think is a key word now. And also in the physical world, you see strategic industries sort of, you know, moving factories back to Europe and the United States, which will have an impact on the labor market, which will be good for the labor market. But the thing is, those factories are not coming back in the same way as they as they left. They're not coming in the same way as they are in other countries. Now they're coming in a new way. They're coming with robotics, they're coming with highly skilled people with a lot of technology. So if the labor market wants to benefit from it, again, it's back to the skills and making sure you're prepared. Okay, I'll come back to skills and education. But before I get to the minister on this one as well, because I really want to find out if Morocco is finding it advantageous on the changing of these supply chains and in a different attitude to globalization. Now, Cloudy, you're on a very important company in a whole host of jurisdictions and whether it be online or whether it be face to face as well. Are you seeing these changes happening, given this apparently slightly different? Well, there is a very different world we're living in now. Yes. Yes, we see that very much. And, you know, we don't talk a lot about jobs. We're going to the skill based. And actually, the kind of metrics that you also measure count a lot. Like if you measure number of people reskilled, it's probably not a very good measure. But if you if you measure in your company, the number of people that have this new skill that you need or when they used it on the competencies. So that's something that I see changing. And the rest, I think is is part of how people like to grow. They want they want better jobs. And as a company, you have to give them that pathway of going horizontal, of going upstream. So this reskilling upskilling is really something that we have to invest a lot. And it's relatively new in the companies. And we have to to allow to get programs that really can scale. And that's the difficulty. Sometimes I'll come back to you on that because I was reading 1922 article that you wrote, I think, or you were interviewed in McKinsey talking about career breadth. So I want to come back to you on that one as well. Minister, OK, so before we get on to some of the issues you raised, I just want to touch base on this globalization issue. Is Morocco seeing something tangibly different in the way that people are approaching their supply chains? And is that in some way benefiting your country, sir? Definitely. I just want to say a word on what was just said. Of course. I think that the next generation of crisis that we will have in the world with regards to the democratic models will not be due to some dictators somewhere, but to these kind of gaps that will widen more and more and with the incapacity of government to find out concrete and feasible solutions and to talk to their populations and to do the right mediations on a timely way and with the appropriate budgets and with the right targeting policies. So this is also a shift in paradigm that maybe will nurture the next 30 years of our governance, let's say, schemes in our world. And it's something that we need to pay attention to and think tanks need to really deploy important efforts, shaping or trying to accompany the reflection on what needs to be done and what regional and international mechanisms. When we had trade problems, we had the World Trade Organization. And when we had specific problems in the world, we had the organizations that tried in a multilateral scheme to approach some of the questions. But we see that many of these international organizations turned to be technical when they lacked a political leadership and they turned to be on the regulatory aspects rather than negotiating and reframing the international relations because there is a lack, there is room to be, to fill in terms of political leadership and political direction for where the world goes. So this is just a general remark for what the future might bring in terms of, I mean, how the democracies and the systems of governance which defined the world of today, the modern world of today, might be impacted with this, through these important changes that might seem to be technical, but they are not by the end of the story. But for such, I'll come back to your point again, then, because I have lost count of the amount of international meetings I've been to, whether it be OECD, whether it be a G7, in the old days a G8 or a G20, an IMF conference that has talked about the number of jobs it's going to create in its plan. I remember the Tony Abbott G20 was talking about the millions of new jobs as well. I've seen it time and time again. Are you saying that actually one of the great fault lines and one of the great problems potentially to come is the lack of follow-through on those grand protestations on a multilateral basis? Two major dynamics that I can see in the fight. It's an intuition. I have no scientific basis to build, but it's also, it comes also from the practice, as a politician also. The first one is you have the business as usual. You have the world of today with all the social partners, the companies, the unions, the governments, the systems that nurture the democracies, the basis up in which majorities are framed, people are re-elected, and the time frame that is available for the decision makers to deploy their strategies and prove that they are good so that they are here. So you have this on the one hand. And the question that is asked is for these new jobs that are going to be created, what kind of jobs, what quality of jobs, so just the names and the titles of the jobs, which is already good, but the quality and which lifestyle would these jobs provide to the population that is going to benefit from these jobs? And when you hit this very specific stone, you're, don't forget that we are talking about Z generations, that we're talking about generations for which the priorities are different and they might be new priorities in the future. So this conflictual path between the opportunities and the personal, the very personal demands in terms of personal projects, professional projects, this conflictual path is maybe a potential tension spot. So this is the first thing. And the second thing that I'm saying is that by the end of the story, the new opportunities will benefit to those who are well positioned in terms of economies, production, industry, etc. So by the end of the story, states, governments and political systems will be split into two. And the second part of the world, which is maybe today part of the milling-come countries or the emerging countries, might find themselves really left alone, not only those who are poor, etc., but also those who try to build something but they don't have enough means to emerge from the and from the tipping point. So the problem is is creating this gap is not going to needs international mechanisms of mediation, of discussion, of negotiation and political will, which does not seem to be a, I mean, we have reasons not to be very optimistic. And we see already the tension of on skills that we have today. OK, and you very much focus on the international agreement of working together with nations as well. But I want to know if we've decided that reskilling is the way forward. And we have done. And the survey pointed out that six out of 11 workers will require training, retraining before 2027 as well. But only half of those employees have access to adequate training facilities. So let's just go back down the line and work out whose responsibility is it for this reskilling? The individual, the corporations, the education system, governments or some form of international agreement. We've had an idea from the minister as well. So why don't I start off with you, Sander, as well, because you are in this business as well. Who's responsibility? Is it my responsibility for my reskilling, or actually do I need my employer or various employers or the government or the education system or a combination of everyone? I mean, my answer would be all of the above. No, because everybody has a role to play. There's one big concern is, and that is from our research, when you ask people who's responsible for your training or for your development, half of the people says my employer. And that's an issue, because ultimately I think the employee is responsible for her or his career and learning, etc. Now, the employer has to has a role to offer and to coach and to guide, because that's one of the other insights from our research is you can offer an online platform where you can learn everything you would ever want to, but people need guidance. People need to say, now I'm in position A, I would like to go to B. What is the path to get from A to B? So they need a bit of help there. So that's the role of the employer is providing, you know, providing the opportunities and give guidance. And then I think there's obviously the government or governments that need to say, you know, if we look at our country, we need more STEM skills, and that's what we do, putting this program in place, etc. So we need to work at all at all levels. On the topic, I would say. And Claudia, you agree with that? It's a bit of everyone or you want to, I mean, you know, you'll see have a big business. You can take responsibility. Don't worry about government. We can move ahead without government, can't we? We do it in the in the jobs that we know that we need to reskill. That's totally 100 percent. We have to do it as a company and we are doing it. And we have quite a few jobs that are we know that won't won't exist in a couple of years time. So in terms of reskilling, getting getting skills to do a horizontal or upskilling actually to do more value added jobs and that you can have a better pay. So that we've inside our company, we have that big responsibility. But we also lead in the European Roundtable reskilling effort and in the in Portugal with the with the government, a reskilling effort for unemployed. And that's that's I think everybody's responsibility because the government has to come in with with the programs. We have to come in with designing the curriculum and telling them what we need at the end. And it's and that's that's that's what we're doing. But I agree a lot. It's also the person has to feel that responsibility. And we have to I think we have to also look at funding models for for education because today that the government funds your primary education, second education, and then your university education. And then it's then then it's up to you or to your employee and that you can't have that. You probably eventually do less university education and do more five years down the road. Six years. Possibly expensive. I mean, I was in another panel from Singapore. They say that everybody with 25 years old, they get a credit for five hundred dollars to reskill. And that I thought that's a great idea. So it's also giving premium the money where your mouth is and also giving the person the responsibility to reskill and using that in programs that are for skills that that are needed. So I mean, funding the journey is an important part of the journey happening. Ordinarily, because as you get to a more senior stage, I'll put my hands up. I reskilled late in my 20s. I'd left school. I was a trader on the derivatives market. It was all going very well. Then all of a sudden we went screen based and I thought try something else. I was going to shouting as you might notice. And so then I did my degree in night school and I loved it. It was fantastic. But I kept coming back to it and they said that's fine. But it was cheap. It was cheap in the 90s when I could do it. Now that same degree is tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars. And it's like too much when you've got a family when you start worrying about your pension. So if when you're 18 or 19, the government sponsors you right because you don't pay your parents. But I mean the fees that you're paying in England probably don't compensate the whole the cost that you have. Why shouldn't they pay when you're 30 or something like that? Or have a question payment. That is a brilliant question. I don't think it's necessarily expensive. I think if you go online, you can learn whatever you want to learn. You can do your MBA probably pretty much for free. But I mean takes takes the price I got quoted. No, but this is but I think this is all thinking about education and we even need to go to college. We need to go to university. We need to go to the to the best school. I don't think that's needed anymore. What's the more of an example? Well, the what we've covered a couple of issues of issues that the future needs to bring to the table the concept of a post-credit with solidarity system that needs to fund the long life learning systems because in the long life learning systems, you have two categories at least. You have the category of those who work. So they are connected to an employer and the risk killing operation has an opportunity within the company. So logically, in terms of stake, there is a common stake between the company, the employer and between the employee. And for some reason, the government can support up to 10, 20 percent. But for the others who just lost their jobs or have a difficulty to find the job they went to, then the responsibility is more scattered. And you have the government, of course, that has a responsibility towards its citizens in a way or in another. But the ideology of the political ideology will govern the way the expenditure will be made, whether it's a social state in terms of the ancient world or if it's a negative social state that will give or provide the individual the means of success. For Morocco, what we've done, for instance, I was appointed something like 18 months ago, new government, new political majority after 10 years of another majority. And the first program that we had to launch is a job program for those who lost their jobs in the COVID period, which was not easy in Morocco. And we managed to employ something like 100,000 people. And we focused on the people who have no degrees, so who have no particular, practically no chance to find a job quickly and have a revenue. We managed to do it because we leveraged a partnership with the Civil Society, for which we provided a couple of projects. So the Bank of Projects was provided between the government and the local government. And it worked. And it worked. The second thing we did is we launched, and this is His Majesty project, a huge important project on the generalization of social security coverage. And we had something like 11 million additional Moroccans, the population of Morocco is 34 millions in one year that joined this new system. But it costs a lot, especially in the beginning. And the third thing is that we worked very hard for a couple of months, five, six months to achieve and to reach an agreement between the stakeholders, between the parties to have the new low on investment, so that we finance practically 30% of the capex of the investments. And we try to orient this capex to these investments in the regions. And we're working very, very hard with a new way of targeting these foreign direct investments to get to Morocco. And we work, we base our work on the success stories that we have basically in the car industry, because we have more than one million cars and we explore a lot. And it's the first sector now. It was a phosphate in the past. So these are a conjunction of, let's say policies, programs, et cetera, with two others very quickly. One is the social dialogue because we wanted the country to keep peaceful. So we worked a lot with the unions. We worked a lot with the heads of corporations. We reached a historic agreement that we didn't have for 30 years. And this is why there are no strikes today in Morocco, even if we are going through very, very deep reforms. And the last thing is a register that we, it's an IT based register that we built. It took us three to four years. Now it's operational for targeting policies. Basically, we don't have the means that we used to have before. So we need to have social policies that needs to be targeted. So we need to address the right populations. And it's, it's, it's, it's a huge job. Yeah, thank you for those very practical examples. So I'm just going to put you on a seven minute warning ish for your questions. Gives me a bit of a break as well. Morocco is also on a path of green transition. And cloudy, this is something you've been looking at as well as well. So just tell me a little bit about the importance of the green transition as one of the key thematics going forward. Yes. Well, the green transition, there's a lot of studies out there, how many jobs it will create. I think all, all the studies, it's a positive creation of jobs. So the ones that you lose, I would say with a brown economy are much less than the ones that you have with the green economy. And the green economy is a whole load of things. It's not only the solar panel engineers, it's which we're missing a million of in Europe. It's the recycle all the recycling sector that is huge as the waste management. It's the buildings building better. So it's it's a whole load of jobs, agriculture, sort of technical agriculture, vertical farms. And even in we saw one of the skills that's going to be most in need is the sustainability experts. I don't know. In your companies, you have a lot of difficulty, but we have a huge difficulty in finding two people that report to, I don't know how many different systems, plastic experts, water experts and, you know, all these technologies are always changing. So this it's actually the green transition is a lot, a lot of things. Yeah. And it goes also people a purpose, right? You're doing it for a better world. So I think it's a huge opportunity that we really have to embrace quickly. Before I come to start on this one, do you want to talk a bit about the purpose? I reference an article of yours earlier where you were looking at empowering the people, upskilling, re-skilling, but sense of purpose. And it's not just about which skills you have. It's not just about how much pay you have. And I know you both want to talk about this as well. And, Claudia, I'll just come back to you again on this. It's actually a collaborative approach with your employees as well. It's about a good work environment and that's really important. Yes. For us in our company, it's crucial. It's it's who we are, basically. And we've had this for 50 years. And this collaboration between between everybody when when COVID hit and we had 1000 stores were closed and the others were 150, 200 percent the food stores. We got people that were working in the head office went to the stores. So, you know, when when we're tested, the sense of purpose, it really worked out for us and it's it's something that we take. Our sustainability committee is 35 years old. So right. Our talent forum is 37 years old. So it's it's been there since it's the beginning of the DNA. It's yes. And we work on it every single day. And I know you think this is important, but to speak the same language and something you raised earlier in the interview we had on CMBC and just explore employees are talking over here. Employers are talking over here, but they're not necessarily talking the same language. Just just tell our audience about this. Well, let's say. I would say employers need to start treating their employees as customers more. And it's not the it's not how they've grown up. And I was talking to you earlier, Steve, this morning, I said, you know, there's all that saying for you, 10 others. And that is saying a boss saying to his employees saying, you know, if you don't want to work here, I can find 10 other people. And that that no, that's sort of that's, I mean, I'm not saying that's the world we can. Well, in a way, that's the world we came from. And I am not saying it's out there pervasive. But let's say the world has changed. We see unemployment very low. There's more in the number of countries, there's more vacancies than unemployed people. The minister just mentioned it. The generations that are coming up are looking for something else. They're looking for purpose. They're looking for belonging. You know, it's a different game out there. And fortunately, I would say many or if not most of our definitely our larger clients, you know, the big companies such as J&J and Unilever and Philips, you know, they see that they realize they're working on it. But I think there's a whole layer of companies, sort of in the SMEs, where some of them are very enlightened and some of them are sort of still in the old world. And they also need to, they also need to move forward. Huge competitive advantage. The company who has that has a huge competitive advantage. If people want to work with you, for you, in your company, you're ultimately better off. So one of the questions at the business level is to what extent these changes transform the positioning and the competitive advantage exercise? Because we used in the past to build our strategies, of course, on positioning and business modeling. And afterwards, you try to protect your business, your competitive advantage. So these are the three pillars in every strategy in general, generic pillars. Now, with these changes, human resources, talent retention have become the new real asset that waits or overweights all the tangible other assets in a couple of industries, at least. So it would be really, very interesting in terms of research and in terms of specific reflection to ask these kind of questions. What is the correlation between these human resources changes and the shortages and the skills stories and the competitive advantage at the short and not the long term? I give an example. If you're a company, you have your human resources, you have your business lines, you have your organization, you have your assets, et cetera. You work. You will have to make a decision on which talents you're going to retain depending on what the core business is and what the core strategy is, what are you going to keep, what are you going to put away to externalize. So one path or one solution or one option is to say, I'm not going to worry about talents because I'm going to buy talents. The market will provide talents with a certain cost. So the good thing is that I'm not going to worry and to link the talent retention to my cycle that might be not a steady one. And I will wait for the good days when I will need the good resources. If I have the money, then I will buy these resources. The other thing, of course, is to say no, I need absolutely to define a critical scope within which I have to operate and these talents I need to retain. If at the governmental level you don't have the right entry barriers, legislations that help you retain these talents, in addition to the money you're going to put, if at the international level you don't have what can help, then you will lose unless you have a lot of means, which is not the case of a lot of emerging companies in emerging countries, in particular. Thank you, sir. Right, OK. Over to you, Lo. No, but no, seriously, we have at least 100 smart people in this room. The lady here is the first, the boldest. This lady here is the second, the boldest, as well. And this lady here, thank goodness, it's the ladies as well. Thank you. So we are one, two, three here. Gentleman here. We might put you in here if you like. OK. Please say who you are. And address your question, please. Ana Kriyajic with Oliver Wyman and Marsh McClendon. Love a lot of what I've heard from the treating as customers to doing a lot of investment and reskilling. You know, my question really comes from the perspective of how do we ensure that there's actually aligned incentives and there is enough investment and focus, particularly from the business side on reskilling when we're dealing with a world where right now the younger generation, you know, in some countries is looking, you're looking at, you know, 60% plus job switching rates. They haven't changed even in the US, you know, as layoffs have continued, which is about 2x, I think, Gen X and boomers. You're looking at, you know, when we look at what happened during COVID, there was a lot of reskilling. It wasn't necessarily offered by businesses. People, especially blue color workers, were taking online classes. They were taking paid classes. They were moving it into what we call new colors. So white color work, pink color work, et cetera, et cetera. So if businesses to lead here, how do we ensure an alignment of incentives, particularly when you're looking at so much turnover and such a tight labor market? And I will ask the panel to have relatively short answers because I do want to squeeze in all our questions as well. So who wants to pick that one up, first of all? No, let's say business will lead, but business is about business. So they will make sure they have the talent available, whether they buy, borrow or build it. That is what business is about. I think business needs to reflect on what do we offer our employees in terms of the work, in terms of the environment, in terms of the career, in terms of the training, in terms of the purpose, in terms of the values. It's the whole, the flexibility. Let's not forget about that, where, when, how. It's the whole package that people are looking for. So people are looking for the package, not just for the pay slip at the end of the month or at the end of the week. As a business, I mean, the numbers you say are averages. So as a business, you try to be on the lower side of the average, you know, try to have a proposition for everybody where they don't churn as much because that is really important. Yeah. So. Do you want to add on to this? No, it's OK. OK, right. Next question, please. Thank you. Yeah. It's so encouraging to hear that the green transformation could produce so much of that new job with purpose. However, that I'm just wondering that this is also true for a global south because in the package you are talking about really needs a lot of resources, the capacity that the finance and the societal capital. So I just wonder that can we expect the same thing be happening in the global south in the particularly under this current very charged geopolitical setting and maybe that you need to cut that some supply chain shorter then can we expect the same thing? I think that it was a terrific question as well. And so I'm going to address that to you first of all because Morocco, of course, is geographically North Africa. But I mean, one thing that you've already said to me or to us today is that you're concerned that Morocco will act on other emerging nations will act as feeders of employees to the West, to developed nations as well. And actually you educate them, you train them and then they go off and find the salaries elsewhere. And that is what your focus was on international agreements as well. So I think it's a great question from our guests after the lady here about how important it is for the South for emerging nations to actually not only train their employees but keep their employees. Yes, I think there are two or three areas of to enhance the policies with this regards. The first thing is the cost because when you train people with public budgets and they go abroad in a time where your domestic economy is evolving you're losing definitely in terms of competitiveness, you lose everything. So one of the areas that we're discussing with partners is to present a concept that is relatively new but old in the same time that we called a kind of human resources or skills vertical integration. So I'm telling my counterparts in European countries and in America if you want to a Moroccan workforce we have no problem because statistically, mathematically there is room because there is an unemployment rate anyway. So what I'm asking you to do is to come and fund joint policies where we jointly train these people not pick them on the markets train them two, three years before for TVET for instance or universities and then you can pick them but I need them to get back to Morocco for three months, for six months in circular economy. So this is one of the circular mobility. So this is one of the areas. The second thing that we ask which is important and politically difficult. This is the last point if I may sir. The second point. The second point is we need from this country's visibility which is politically very difficult. It should not be an opportunistic trade. So when we meet these governments we say, look, you have your home business to run but we need from you to provide visibility on the coming years so that we can prepare ourselves and make sure we have no shortage and reorganize our training capacity so that we can feed your needs in a proper way but in the same time we need to feed ourselves. There's great section in the jobs report which is talking about the working age populations in lower middle income countries growing but in the high income countries we know that there are labor shortages. So absolutely this is about working together with South North, East West, low income, higher income as well. And the other point I'll make is perhaps slightly contrary to what you were saying actually it can be very good for a developing nation as well. The remittances from diasporas abroad are very, very important sources of income from many countries in the South as well I think we've all done a bit of work on remittances at times and they are such important sources of income. It depends on the very particular balance point where the country stands. If the country is developing, really, if there is a transformation, if there are investments, it outweighs the transfer. Fair point, so you're this lady here. Wait, you've got a microphone as well as one. You're very welcome. A comment just on your point regarding someone made the point that education institutions are pointing to the private sector for reskilling and the private sector is pointing to the education community for reskilling. Brings me to a quote by a Nobel laureate and she says, Maria Risa and she said, the world seems uncanningly familiar yet everything has changed. And my thinking is if we reimagine education and careers as one trajectory, as one journey, as opposed to two or more, and actually higher education is graduating students as change makers and not necessarily students, what does this do to the sector? What does this do to higher education? What does this then do to the private sector? We would see maybe an increase in matriculation rates in the higher education sector where they're as low as 60% now, which is a very low rate compared to where they were in 1990, we would see higher graduation rates. We would see better dynamics in the workplace. We will see employers treating their employees as somebody's precious child. And I think the dynamics there will really revitalize the sector, will improve the job growth and will ensure that students coming out of these higher education institutions are well matched for the jobs that no one really knows what they look like. What a fabulous point. Right, but they will be well matched. Thank you so much. I love the quote. I love it too. Because COVID for me is really a major disruption. There's like before COVID and after COVID. And a lot of people actually think it's like a linear. It's not, we've had major disruption and we have to look at it. So I'd love the quote. Thank you. I know, I know, I know. I know, but you brought it to us. I know, I know. But you could have the Nobel Prize. You could be the Nobel Prize. Get the win. I would have done. OK, look, I can tell you now, it's one minute past six and the chefs are just getting ready to take the hot plates off. So I will just ask a final question down the line as well. And I really haven't asked this one because I've been so engrossed in this conversation about actually this has been a really productive conversation because we've talked about what needs to be done rather than what is the situation and the negatives as well. But I will ask you kind of the basic question. What is the jobs market like now going forward? And we've got so many other things going on that have been brilliantly covered in this two day growth summit as well. But how does it look? How does it feel at the moment? Let's go down the line from Sanda and we'll finish off with the minister as well. But concerned optimistic medium term because we've got a lot of other stuff going on that's quite worrying. I'm absolutely optimistic because a lot of things are changing, a lot of opportunities we discussed today and the report of the web has a lot of pointers. We know what to do. We just need to get on with it. So I'm optimistic. And Claudia. I'm also optimistic. I'm normally optimistic. But in this case, we know the path. I think the job market is tight and we're missing a lot of skills. And I think that gives us all a sense of urgency, which is what we need. Yes, it is. Minister, final words. Yes, I'm optimistic as well. That's why they chose us. I think that's why I'm the journalist. I'm the best at the job. But why are you optimistic, given all the challenges you just mentioned, sir? Final words. I'm optimistic because there is room for our, and there are opportunities. If we were in a world without opportunities, the situation would have been very difficult. We know, we've been discussing that it's maybe difficult to have a soft lending after this inflationist, inflow... Well, you know the world. LAUGHTER Era. But however, I mean, we see that there are opportunities. So for so many countries, there are possibilities and the governments need to really be very agile in order to seize these opportunities. Great. Well, look, I had a very lovely time and I want to thank you all for giving me the opportunity to speak to so many smart people and be in front of so many smart people as well. So I'll just say, Sarda, a fond Nord end. Thank you very much indeed for your time. Tadiya Azevedo, lovely to meet you. And Minister as well, Eunice Sikuri, been great to see you. I should say that Sadiya Zahidi, the managing director of the World Economic Forum, is here and I understand that dinner's on her. So I'm very, very optimistic. It's true, apparently. Thank you very much indeed. And look, I've re-skilled. I used to be... APPLAUSE Thank you.